Is it me or are there more older Mac's around. It seems you can hardly find any Wintel systems running Win 3.X but there a a lot of Macs running OS 7.X.
I would say they only seem to be slower due to marketing. Pentium is still based on old 8088/86 technology.
Re:And how is that money obtained?
on
Lawsuits Suck
·
· Score: 1
No it doesn't....
If you were lucky enough you were born into it, if not you have to practically sell your soul.
Once upon a time hard work would get you money. Today is who you know, how you market and how much you have.
There are less and less working stiffs becoming rich today.
Re:They're right, and that's a good thing
on
Lawsuits Suck
·
· Score: 1
The people in the constitution means ALL the people including geeks. It seem's to me money is becoming the people and if you ain't got any you NOT people.
Tell that to the users, who seem to feel that they need to upgrade. I haven't seen a user get the converter, they just get a copy of the latest release and load it on top of the older one.
Why when I post my experiance I have to be told I'm full of shit. You are rignt Word is so great that it makes Microsoft blush. How clever of them. So where can I get the paper that plays movies?
Funny I never said I was a Linux user.... I am an OS user. I have used OS's starting from DOS 1.0, and I still have the original DOS 1.1 user manual and disks. I have used all/most the PC OS's from the start, Linux included. I have no problems with using Word, WP, or any older software. Don't get me wrong I do not prefer Staroffice to Word or in that matter Word to Staroffice. I have tried all the software that I mention. I just don't have the same views as you.
I support Word, XL, and others... So your comment on compatibility...
Let's see, the last change of the Word file format was in 1997.
Tell that to the users not me. I can get around all the minor sh_t MS does to their files. Most users can't. Word 6 and Word for Office 97 do not work well together. Most users bootleg a copy of the newer version and install it ontop of the older:^(. I don't know of a user that on his/her own went and downloaded patches and want not, to be able to access the newer files. To me computers are easy, to others they are a nightmare, but unfortunatly most people using computers are not like me or you. I agree that that WP, StarOffice, etc.. may not be better. But I do not agree that they are worse.
For people who uses this for their job, the changes amount to, oh, maybe a week of relearning.
Less, I would venture, but they don't. Where the word processor was better than electronic typewriters was in merging and storage. What I see from users is that most of them don't remember or don't know how to merge any more and all they seem to know is save. Forget SAVE AS or SAVE TO and I won't go into backups. One even had a 300M file of the same letter addressed to diffrent people. Their file systems are a mess. Files are all over the place. Try to explain to them that they should use one area in particular on the disk to store all their files and they look at you as if you invented the wheel. Then they try it....but guess what? They have to configure everything to point in the right place and some aps (ie Outlook) don't even allow them to decide. Linux, FreeBSD, etc... stores all their file in their home directory/folder. Backup is easy. You can find your files with hardly any problems. But I beleive they would mess this up to if they were left on their own. Because something is, does not meen it is better. Because everyone is using it does not make it a standard. A standard in my opinion is when all who use it agree in how it will work, it is not controlled by one. Changes are discussed prior to the implementation and is for the common good of all. Netscape and IE are good examples of poor standards, HTML is a good example of a standard. NetBUIE is a poor example. TCP/IP is a good example. We need, as users, to force standards, not encourage the lack off.
Is this the best that we can do? Accept what's out there and say, Oh well this is the best.
What's this vehamance against Word in particular?
I have none, But I have experiance with other platforms. To tell me that the only choice I have is Word, that's just nuts. To tell me that the best option for all office tasks is M$ Office, that's just nuts. The reason I'm not bitching at all the other office suites is that they don't claim to be the best at everything. Most are just as bad if not worse....but no one tells me to love them....no one is trying to force them on me....and none of them are saying what OS I must use. It's a matter of choice.
IE is a hell of a lot better than netscape. It supports more standards, it has better support for CSS, and DHTML
I don't see it. Better support for DHTML? In some things maybe in others NOT. As for it being faster its just a matter if you like it reading cache or the live page. Might be slightly faster in rendering. As for hating push technologie I would like to see the survey/poll on such.
I use Office. Fast is not in its vocabulary. As far as Word better its a matter of opinion. I've seen Office implemented in all types of business. The only sure thing is that the older version does not support the newer versions files. You need to reinvest every 18 months, download patches constantly. In most cases, people using Word are slower than poeple who use electronic typewriters. It's no longer a productivity tool. The prefrences/options change from version to version, which has led to millions using word but few who know how to. The default option on Word is never to create a backup of the current file so when the system goes haywire and a restart of the system is required(not to mention the blue screen.......) all is lost. Frankly I'm wondering after all this time you would think reboot/restart would be history. I won't get into excel, with its large file problems.
Lastly, it is standard. Like it or not, no suite provides the sheer compatibility of Word.
You see the way I see compatibility/standard is for example the way we connect appliances to the electrical outlets. We do not have to worry about who made the plug and who made the outlet. The toaster plugs into the same outlet as the fridge, as the hairdryer, as the lamp, etc...... Now that is COMPATIBILITY. When I use Linux, FreeBSD, OSS, I finaly see this compatibility. When I look at TCP/IP, SMTP, etc.. I see this compatibility. When I look a MS Office I wonder if the plug will fit in the most recent outlet or must I upgrade once again.
One last question...why must I reboot a system? Why can't I let it run? Why is a reboot productive. If I were Micro$oft I would be ashamed.
IE has as many problems as Netscape. IE's support of layers sucks! Server push is no longer supported in IE5. etc......
Office has its own problems. Bloatware. Features which reduce productivity rather than increase it (i.e. auto spell check as you type.). The file formats change with every version preventing compatibility with older versions.
Lets face it office apps have NOT changed much in the last five years. Intergrating MP3's, movies, etc... into documents will only be usefull when I can print them and still watch or listen to them.
HTML or another Web standard, provided we continue development, will replace these proprietary solutions. The format will be able to represent any such document which can be created by any office app. Web authoring has/will become the new office software. Finally after all these years we are able to share regardless of the os we choose.
IE is as intergrated in the OS as my watch is intergrated to my body!
I may wish to beleive it, but get real!
We can intergrate Netscape into Gnome. Gnome into X. X into Linux. Force everyone to use all the above but it would still not make Netscape, Linux.
We would only be fooling ourselves that Netscape is Linux. The same way fools beleive that IE is NT/Win98 and cannot be separated.
The only reason Micro$oft intergrated in such a fashion is to control the Web. Content now must adhere to their OS/browser.
Re:Used it, played with it, worked with it.
on
Looking Back At NeXT
·
· Score: 1
Well, that really isn't multi-user. That's multiple profiles. Windows 98 has the same concept...
Yes and no. Win98 will alow you to start, destroy, and change almost anything. There is no security. But my point is that even a multiuser environment has a place at home and I can have a job running while my kids play games.
However, multi-user adds a lot of complexity that really isn't needed if you just want to be able to have individual logins and preferences.
It isn't comlex on NeXT. Very simple as a matter of fact.
In the Windows world, you can (almost) always embed any document in any application.
I tried to embed an xl sheet into notepad. I just couldn't get it to work.... Once I received a word doc with a xl graph couldn't link to the data.
Try to do that with unix.
A long, long time ago(1990)... there was a system called NeXT. This was when the DOS dinosaurs romed the earth. (In reality I think it was when Win3 was out). I could drag, drop, embed, lipservice (voice e-mail), etc... Some features Windows is still missing today, ie. multithreaded, multitasking, stability. Guess what?... I still use it today. Still has more features than windowz. I'ts just sad that Apple bought them out and they no longer support Intel boxen. It would help if they finally get it out on PPC.
Re:Used it, played with it, worked with it.
on
Looking Back At NeXT
·
· Score: 1
Were you talking personal accounting (Quicken) or Accounting with a capital A? Most people in BeOS complain about lack of Quicken, which is just silly.
BOTH. I don't find it silly it helps small business and people balance their budget.
But my point is the lack of apps nut just accounting.
Multiuser is a great asset especially for home use. I run FreeBSD at home. I have root, and an accout for every member of my family. Each member has his own prefs. Each member has his/her pref. GUI. And best of all no one may change the configuration of the other.
Re:Used it, played with it, worked with it.
on
Looking Back At NeXT
·
· Score: 1
Be is more similar to NeXT than you think...
Yup! I'll agree. But is missing multiuser functionality (as per the last time I checked).
(Funny, a $40 HP calculator
and a sheet of paper works fine for me:)
I used an adding machine app on NeXT. But when you have 1000 invoices a month. A stable acct system is required. I mean if we wish business to accept and adopt new OS's this is something we cannot do without. FreeBSD and Linux have the same problem but not as bad. I managed to find a good acct system from Silk for linux. A bit expensive. Missing some features for my purposes but quite good and the best part STABLE. we need more choice. It seems there are some good apps out there but beyond the price for small business.
Translators. Just drag a new translator in to the appropriate folder....
I guess I gotta try Be again....But I think in todays world multiuser environment is a must.
Just grabbed a section of spreadsheet and pasted it into a word processor....
Have not seen anything come close to it yet. Not Windowz, Not Linux, Not Solaris, Not Mac, nor even Be.
Simple, clean and powerfull. Unfortunately very few apps. were available. Just finding a GOOD accounting package was a hassel (Never did find a reliable one). The standard apps (Spreadsheet, Word proc., Graphics) were easy enough to find but god forbid if you needed some thing special (Accounting, Payroll, Productivity).
I miss their mail app the most. With the colorizer plugin you could sort out spam in seconds.
Come to think of it, their drag and drop was amazing. Grab an image file and drop it into Tiffany (graphics app), and viola!! it opens. Cut any data format and past it into almost any app and it would handle it.
Try grabbing a section of excel and pasting it in notepad...The results are just not the same....
Still have one machine running OpenStep and use it from time to time. SOB!SOB! Hope Apple does it right!
Every time I use a Windoze system I feel I need more space. It seems that there is no more room available. I have to spend endless time opening windows to find what I'm looking for. On most peoples systems the desktop is crowded with soooo many icons that I wonder how they even find anything??
I help and support windows, and I am constantly impressed by how users find it simple but simply can NOT find anything.
This is how Micro$oft can claim that they have the most popular OS..... Maby we should force people to buy Linux, FreeBSD and all opensource OS's twice or maby three times.
Or better yet..... Why not ship 3, 4, or 5 copies for every order placed?
Taking over the world would take a lot less time.BwahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Hmmmm..... Let's see.... I'm an ISP I install this on my router. A DoS attack begins from some of my clients systems. (Lets say these clients don't care about security.)
I start getting calls from an ISP about DoS going through my router.
Options available to me:
1. Shutdown the clients access. 2. Uninstall features on router. 3. Spend endless effort to secure my clients systems. 4. User current technology and stop relaying of spoofed IP's which do not belong on my network. Advise client his system was hacked.
Option 1. Will cost me a great deal of money. The cleint will go to the competition. Problem not resolved. DoS attack continues Option 2. Costs me nothing. Saves headaches due to downstream ISP's problems. (since my router is not the one reporting the problem). Option 3. Not!!!! Who works for free? It will always lead to option 1. Option 4. If I am knowledgeable enough I would have installed this software/feature/configuration a long, long, LONG, time ago.
We have the solution already. We need a means to enforce it. I guess a lawsuite here and there is what we require to force all ISP's to implement option 4.
If the upstream ISP's do not cooperate, DoS attacks are here to stay. Sad fact.
The ISP need not change/upgrade all the routers just the ones at the border. A DoS attack will consume all the bandwidth available to his clients. If he is on the receiving end of the attack, I can't imagine him surviving the loss of business. I bet it costs the ISP more in insurance than implementing these safegaurds.
In order to survive a DoS the ISP must have spare bandwidth. I wonder how much that costs? If 90% implemented these measures imagine the savings for ISP's
Have you ever been under DoS attack? Talking about slowing down. It can bring routers down as has happened to one of our connections to the Net. One of our connections went down due to our ISP's lack of cooperation and it's junior staff. They are not a small mom and pop but a large multinational. The traffic will also slow to crawl.
Slashdot Mirror
Also emulating an emulator is guaranteed to be slow.
PDF should help in this respect.
NeXT showed us how. I hope OSX takes it further.
I would say they only seem to be slower due to marketing. Pentium is still based on old 8088/86 technology.
Nope never have the same one. OK I might onece in a while.
You whipe out the user and create a new one. Brand new slate.
Every Joe can do this.....
If you like to tinker with files you can just edit the cookie file, etc.... :^).
I just had to......
If you were lucky enough you were born into it, if not you have to practically sell your soul.
Once upon a time hard work would get you money. Today is who you know, how you market and how much you have.
There are less and less working stiffs becoming rich today.
The people in the constitution means ALL the people including geeks. It seem's to me money is becoming the people and if you ain't got any you NOT people.
Why when I post my experiance I have to be told I'm full of shit. You are rignt Word is so great that it makes Microsoft blush. How clever of them. So where can I get the paper that plays movies?
Funny I never said I was a Linux user.... I am an OS user. I have used OS's starting from DOS 1.0, and I still have the original DOS 1.1 user manual and disks. I have used all/most the PC OS's from the start, Linux included. I have no problems with using Word, WP, or any older software. Don't get me wrong I do not prefer Staroffice to Word or in that matter Word to Staroffice. I have tried all the software that I mention. I just don't have the same views as you.
I support Word, XL, and others... So your comment on compatibility...
Let's see, the last change of the Word file format was in 1997.
Tell that to the users not me. I can get around all the minor sh_t MS does to their files. Most users can't. Word 6 and Word for Office 97 do not work well together. Most users bootleg a copy of the newer version and install it ontop of the older :^(. I don't know of a user that on his/her own went and downloaded patches and want not, to be able to access the newer files. To me computers are easy, to others they are a nightmare, but unfortunatly most people using computers are not like me or you. I agree that that WP, StarOffice, etc.. may not be better. But I do not agree that they are worse.
For people who uses this for their job, the changes amount to, oh, maybe a week of relearning.
Less, I would venture, but they don't. Where the word processor was better than electronic typewriters was in merging and storage. What I see from users is that most of them don't remember or don't know how to merge any more and all they seem to know is save. Forget SAVE AS or SAVE TO and I won't go into backups. One even had a 300M file of the same letter addressed to diffrent people. Their file systems are a mess. Files are all over the place. Try to explain to them that they should use one area in particular on the disk to store all their files and they look at you as if you invented the wheel. Then they try it....but guess what? They have to configure everything to point in the right place and some aps (ie Outlook) don't even allow them to decide. Linux, FreeBSD, etc... stores all their file in their home directory/folder. Backup is easy. You can find your files with hardly any problems. But I beleive they would mess this up to if they were left on their own. Because something is, does not meen it is better. Because everyone is using it does not make it a standard. A standard in my opinion is when all who use it agree in how it will work, it is not controlled by one. Changes are discussed prior to the implementation and is for the common good of all. Netscape and IE are good examples of poor standards, HTML is a good example of a standard. NetBUIE is a poor example. TCP/IP is a good example. We need, as users, to force standards, not encourage the lack off.
Is this the best that we can do? Accept what's out there and say, Oh well this is the best.
What's this vehamance against Word in particular?
I have none, But I have experiance with other platforms. To tell me that the only choice I have is Word, that's just nuts. To tell me that the best option for all office tasks is M$ Office, that's just nuts. The reason I'm not bitching at all the other office suites is that they don't claim to be the best at everything. Most are just as bad if not worse....but no one tells me to love them....no one is trying to force them on me....and none of them are saying what OS I must use. It's a matter of choice.
I don't see it. Better support for DHTML? In some things maybe in others NOT. As for it being faster its just a matter if you like it reading cache or the live page. Might be slightly faster in rendering. As for hating push technologie I would like to see the survey/poll on such.
I use Office. Fast is not in its vocabulary. As far as Word better its a matter of opinion. I've seen Office implemented in all types of business. The only sure thing is that the older version does not support the newer versions files. You need to reinvest every 18 months, download patches constantly. In most cases, people using Word are slower than poeple who use electronic typewriters. It's no longer a productivity tool. The prefrences/options change from version to version, which has led to millions using word but few who know how to. The default option on Word is never to create a backup of the current file so when the system goes haywire and a restart of the system is required(not to mention the blue screen.......) all is lost. Frankly I'm wondering after all this time you would think reboot/restart would be history. I won't get into excel, with its large file problems.
Lastly, it is standard. Like it or not, no suite provides the sheer compatibility of Word.
You see the way I see compatibility/standard is for example the way we connect appliances to the electrical outlets. We do not have to worry about who made the plug and who made the outlet. The toaster plugs into the same outlet as the fridge, as the hairdryer, as the lamp, etc ...... Now that is COMPATIBILITY. When I use Linux, FreeBSD, OSS, I finaly see this compatibility. When I look at TCP/IP, SMTP, etc.. I see this compatibility. When I look a MS Office I wonder if the plug will fit in the most recent outlet or must I upgrade once again.
One last question...why must I reboot a system? Why can't I let it run? Why is a reboot productive. If I were Micro$oft I would be ashamed.
Office has its own problems. Bloatware. Features which reduce productivity rather than increase it (i.e. auto spell check as you type.). The file formats change with every version preventing compatibility with older versions.
Lets face it office apps have NOT changed much in the last five years. Intergrating MP3's, movies, etc... into documents will only be usefull when I can print them and still watch or listen to them.
HTML or another Web standard, provided we continue development, will replace these proprietary solutions. The format will be able to represent any such document which can be created by any office app. Web authoring has/will become the new office software. Finally after all these years we are able to share regardless of the os we choose.
I may wish to beleive it, but get real!
We can intergrate Netscape into Gnome. Gnome into X. X into Linux. Force everyone to use all the above but it would still not make Netscape, Linux.
We would only be fooling ourselves that Netscape is Linux. The same way fools beleive that IE is NT/Win98 and cannot be separated.
The only reason Micro$oft intergrated in such a fashion is to control the Web. Content now must adhere to their OS/browser.
Yes and no. Win98 will alow you to start, destroy, and change almost anything. There is no security. But my point is that even a multiuser environment has a place at home and I can have a job running while my kids play games.
However, multi-user adds a lot of complexity that really isn't needed if you just want to be able to have individual logins and preferences.
It isn't comlex on NeXT. Very simple as a matter of fact.
In the Windows world, you can (almost) always embed any document in any application.
I tried to embed an xl sheet into notepad. I just couldn't get it to work.... Once I received a word doc with a xl graph couldn't link to the data.
Try to do that with unix.
A long, long time ago(1990)... there was a system called NeXT. This was when the DOS dinosaurs romed the earth. (In reality I think it was when Win3 was out). I could drag, drop, embed, lipservice (voice e-mail), etc... Some features Windows is still missing today, ie. multithreaded, multitasking, stability. Guess what?... I still use it today. Still has more features than windowz. I'ts just sad that Apple bought them out and they no longer support Intel boxen. It would help if they finally get it out on PPC.
Were you talking personal accounting (Quicken) or Accounting with a capital A? Most people in BeOS complain about lack of Quicken, which is just silly.
BOTH. I don't find it silly it helps small business and people balance their budget.
But my point is the lack of apps nut just accounting.
Multiuser is a great asset especially for home use. I run FreeBSD at home. I have root, and an accout for every member of my family. Each member has his own prefs. Each member has his/her pref. GUI. And best of all no one may change the configuration of the other.
Be is more similar to NeXT than you think...
:)
Yup! I'll agree. But is missing multiuser functionality (as per the last time I checked).
(Funny, a $40 HP calculator and a sheet of paper works fine for me
I used an adding machine app on NeXT. But when you have 1000 invoices a month. A stable acct system is required. I mean if we wish business to accept and adopt new OS's this is something we cannot do without. FreeBSD and Linux have the same problem but not as bad. I managed to find a good acct system from Silk for linux. A bit expensive. Missing some features for my purposes but quite good and the best part STABLE. we need more choice. It seems there are some good apps out there but beyond the price for small business.
Translators. Just drag a new translator in to the appropriate folder....
I guess I gotta try Be again....But I think in todays world multiuser environment is a must.
Just grabbed a section of spreadsheet and pasted it into a word processor....
How 'bout into a simple text editor like notepad?
Have not seen anything come close to it yet. Not Windowz, Not Linux, Not Solaris, Not Mac, nor even Be.
Simple, clean and powerfull. Unfortunately very few apps. were available. Just finding a GOOD accounting package was a hassel (Never did find a reliable one). The standard apps (Spreadsheet, Word proc., Graphics) were easy enough to find but god forbid if you needed some thing special (Accounting, Payroll, Productivity).
I miss their mail app the most. With the colorizer plugin you could sort out spam in seconds.
Come to think of it, their drag and drop was amazing. Grab an image file and drop it into Tiffany (graphics app), and viola!! it opens. Cut any data format and past it into almost any app and it would handle it.
Try grabbing a section of excel and pasting it in notepad...The results are just not the same....
Still have one machine running OpenStep and use it from time to time. SOB!SOB! Hope Apple does it right!
O.K. Time to get back to work........
Every time I use a Windoze system I feel I need more space. It seems that there is no more room available. I have to spend endless time opening windows to find what I'm looking for. On most peoples systems the desktop is crowded with soooo many icons that I wonder how they even find anything??
I help and support windows, and I am constantly impressed by how users find it simple but simply can NOT find anything.
Even when you pay for the same thing over and over again.
Win98=Win95=Win3.1=DOS(Disk Operating System not Denial Of Service)
But now that you mention it DOS = DoS
Din't we have a story the other day about Micro$oft forcing companies to buy a second copy????
The OEM copy had ceratin restrictions. I wonder how many times these installs are counted?
Are they like downloads?
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can bet your Grandma's teeth that they are counted twice!!!!!
This is how Micro$oft can claim that they have the most popular OS..... Maby we should force people to buy Linux, FreeBSD and all opensource OS's twice or maby three times.
Or better yet..... Why not ship 3, 4, or 5 copies for every order placed?
Taking over the world would take a lot less time.BwahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Hmmmm..... Let's see.... I'm an ISP I install this on my router. A DoS attack begins from some of my clients systems. (Lets say these clients don't care about security.)
I start getting calls from an ISP about DoS going through my router.
Options available to me:
1. Shutdown the clients access.
2. Uninstall features on router.
3. Spend endless effort to secure my clients systems.
4. User current technology and stop relaying of spoofed IP's which do not belong on my network. Advise client his system was hacked.
Option 1. Will cost me a great deal of money. The cleint will go to the competition. Problem not resolved. DoS attack continues
Option 2. Costs me nothing. Saves headaches due to downstream ISP's problems. (since my router is not the one reporting the problem).
Option 3. Not!!!! Who works for free? It will always lead to option 1.
Option 4. If I am knowledgeable enough I would have installed this software/feature/configuration a long, long, LONG, time ago.
We have the solution already. We need a means to enforce it. I guess a lawsuite here and there is what we require to force all ISP's to implement option 4.
If the upstream ISP's do not cooperate, DoS attacks are here to stay. Sad fact.
The ISP need not change/upgrade all the routers just the ones at the border. A DoS attack will consume all the bandwidth available to his clients. If he is on the receiving end of the attack, I can't imagine him surviving the loss of business. I bet it costs the ISP more in insurance than implementing these safegaurds.
In order to survive a DoS the ISP must have spare bandwidth. I wonder how much that costs? If 90% implemented these measures imagine the savings for ISP's
Have you ever been under DoS attack? Talking about slowing down. It can bring routers down as has happened to one of our connections to the Net. One of our connections went down due to our ISP's lack of cooperation and it's junior staff. They are not a small mom and pop but a large multinational. The traffic will also slow to crawl.