No Twisted? Well, no Python 3.0 for a bunch of my apps for a while...I did mention Django, though, specificially because the Django devs have no definitive plans to update it 3.0 at this time and it's not inconceivable that they might never update it for 3.0.
Sounds like FUD - Django will update to 3.0, it will just take time:
Python 3 mostly changes things that deal with unicode (i.e. it uses unicode an it's "text" object, like Java).
If you don't care about unicode that much (e.g. you mostly deal with development tools, iso-latin1/ascii encoded files...) there is absolutely no rush to hop on the bandwagon. And perhaps you just hate unicode as a concept;-).
I predict that the bandwagon will start rolling ~ Q2 / 2009, when toolkits like PyQt4 for 3.0 are materializing.
I just don't understand why it is taking Google so long to release a Mac and Linux version. Can someone explain some of the technical issues that would cause such a delay? I"m just curious.
Chrome codebase is not "cross platform", in that you can't just go ahead and compile it for Linux. They are still implementing a Gtk ui - see
> The problem with django is that you have to use Python.
Can you explain the problems associated with using Python as a language for web development?
Don't you know that Python is just a hack that doesn't support "real" object oriented programming?
You can't just take a language like Python and make it object oriented by adding objects. You need a language like "Ruby" that is object oriented from ground up!
I read it on Ruby advocacy pages, and hence it must be true. Also, C00lDudeFromDaGhetto on IRC confirmed the same.
Nothing to see here, move along... and don't forget that RoR is much faster to development for than Java! And C!
And on top of that, netbooks come with lesser RAM and a weaker processor, a touchscreen can't be good for that.
Touchscreen doesn't really cause measurable cost in computing resources (think of it as yet another mouse).
And one more gripe, is there good touchscreen technology for Linux? I hope this isn't a boost for the XP netbooks.
Yes, Maemo (as I already posted). The low-power (and unaccelerated) arm hardware of e.g. Nokia N810 can do touch stuff just wine, and e.g. panning around the page in browser by dragging the stylus is smooth as ever. Plain-old-finger usage is a increasing priority as well, but of course it needs some practical considerations and porting in app-by-app basis (i.e. don't create monster dialogs that won't fit on screen when controls are of finger-friendly size). This, of course, is something Open Source apps are well suited for.
although I fully agree that there's basically no market for them on full size laptops.
There are situations when it's more practical to tap the screen than fold up the keyboard - e.g. when reading documents in a cramped space of a plane or car. In fact most of the laptop use doesn't really require keyboard entry, just navigation - most of the time we are just consuming information, not producing it.
For some reason, bringing up B.P. evoked a sense of weird nostalgia.
Remember UserLinux? Remember time before Ubuntu, the time when Linux was trying to "make it" - and we didn't know for certain what distro was capable of doing that?
Typically, announcemet about shutting a site down would have more of a "we had a good ride, and the great atmosphere of the site will be missed" tone to it. Here, we have quite the opposite, and nosy personalities will surely want to know the dirty details...
(Apart from the obvious ones,such as the internet being full of a*holes)
Cheddar, a class of cheese we all know, is in reality a particular type of cheese, from a particular location (not too far from where I live).
Cheddar is also much less obvious a term as "netbook".
I think litigation like this should only be valid if the sales are actually hurt by watering down of the term. Since Psion probably has zero sales, they should be ignored as a trademark troll.
Also, they created Symbian, which qualifies for 147 evil points.
I can't think of any programming "language" worse than C++ template programming. I stay away from Boost and really hate what it's doing to C++.
Actually, templates provide a sense of "duck typing" familiar from Python and the likes, but with static linkage and native code performance.
Templates enable quite a lot of things that would look quite awkward without them, and perform terribly. Basically, you rarely need to create your own templated classes - they mostly reside on the "library" side of the application, so most of the time you are not really writing new templates, you are just instantiating them.
I have spent a lot of my programming career programming in C++ without templates (because the platform discouraged their use) - but now, when I'm working on a project that encourages the use of templates, it's a hoot.
Regarding the original topic - I thought everybody, not just the corporates, hate perl. Wake up and smell the python...
Launchpad provides bzr and the most typical project hosting goodies, and obviously beats the bejeezus out of sourceforge.
If they hosted mercurial as well, I would have used that, but the other things outweigh the slight misadvantage of using bzr (which is performance, for large projects). For projects of moderate size, launchpad is a winner.
Smileys do clarify matters (and don't seem juvenile to me - hell, we were using them back in -93. Whining about smileys seems kind of anal retentive, and people who do that probably would better stick with sending paper envelopes and word/excel documents to each other.
However, suffixing a sentence with lol communicates quite a bunch of negative things about the other end.
If you read the article, the more important thing is that once you have a town to rebuild, or something really serious happens/has happened, you no longer seek the distraction of a video game. You have something more important to do, and games lose their appeal, due to some deep survival instinct.
As far as Canonical is concerned, one thing that struck me about Mark is that he really insists on control. For example, when I considered being an employee one of the things standing in the way was the fact that Mark doesn't give his employees stock in his companies. If I'm going to work for someone I'm going to be a little entrepreneurial about it, so I felt that although Ubuntu and Canonical could do a great deal for Debian and be excellent community members, they were never going to be the core, and we could actually get closer to the core by following what I have set up for UserLinux.
So no stock for Bruce, ergo Ubuntu is never going to be the core? Is there something missing from the interview?
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No Twisted? Well, no Python 3.0 for a bunch of my apps for a while...I did mention Django, though, specificially because the Django devs have no definitive plans to update it 3.0 at this time and it's not inconceivable that they might never update it for 3.0.
Sounds like FUD - Django will update to 3.0, it will just take time:
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use-django-with-python-3-0
The upgrade won't be exceedingly hard either. It could be done people not part of the django core team, even... Summer of code 2009?
Python 3 mostly changes things that deal with unicode (i.e. it uses unicode an it's "text" object, like Java).
If you don't care about unicode that much (e.g. you mostly deal with development tools, iso-latin1/ascii encoded files...) there is absolutely no rush to hop on the bandwagon. And perhaps you just hate unicode as a concept ;-).
I predict that the bandwagon will start rolling ~ Q2 / 2009, when toolkits like PyQt4 for 3.0 are materializing.
I just don't understand why it is taking Google so long to release a Mac and Linux version. Can someone explain some of the technical issues that would cause such a delay? I"m just curious.
Chrome codebase is not "cross platform", in that you can't just go ahead and compile it for Linux. They are still implementing a Gtk ui - see
http://dev.chromium.org/developers/faq
> The problem with django is that you have to use Python.
Can you explain the problems associated with using Python as a language for web development?
Don't you know that Python is just a hack that doesn't support "real" object oriented programming?
You can't just take a language like Python and make it object oriented by adding objects. You need a language like "Ruby" that is object oriented from ground up!
I read it on Ruby advocacy pages, and hence it must be true. Also, C00lDudeFromDaGhetto on IRC confirmed the same.
Nothing to see here, move along... and don't forget that RoR is much faster to development for than Java! And C!
I fear that Maemo will take a backside in the near future to Nokia's Qtopia and other projects.
As I understand it, Maemo should not be going anywhere - their "Qt on Linux" activity still happens under Maemo brand umbrella.
And on top of that, netbooks come with lesser RAM and a weaker processor, a touchscreen can't be good for that.
Touchscreen doesn't really cause measurable cost in computing resources (think of it as yet another mouse).
And one more gripe, is there good touchscreen technology for Linux? I hope this isn't a boost for the XP netbooks.
Yes, Maemo (as I already posted). The low-power (and unaccelerated) arm hardware of e.g. Nokia N810 can do touch stuff just wine, and e.g. panning around the page in browser by dragging the stylus is smooth as ever. Plain-old-finger usage is a increasing priority as well, but of course it needs some practical considerations and porting in app-by-app basis (i.e. don't create monster dialogs that won't fit on screen when controls are of finger-friendly size). This, of course, is something Open Source apps are well suited for.
although I fully agree that there's basically no market for them on full size laptops.
There are situations when it's more practical to tap the screen than fold up the keyboard - e.g. when reading documents in a cramped space of a plane or car. In fact most of the laptop use doesn't really require keyboard entry, just navigation - most of the time we are just consuming information, not producing it.
You guys should keep an eye out for what Nokia has in the pipeline for Maemo.
The "Hildon" desktop is optimized for touch usage, is open source and will be shipped with Ubuntu MID.
http://www.clutter-project.org/ will play an interesting role as well.
Is Bruce Perens even relevant anymore?
For some reason, bringing up B.P. evoked a sense of weird nostalgia.
Remember UserLinux? Remember time before Ubuntu, the time when Linux was trying to "make it" - and we didn't know for certain what distro was capable of doing that?
Typically, announcemet about shutting a site down would have more of a "we had a good ride, and the great atmosphere of the site will be missed" tone to it. Here, we have quite the opposite, and nosy personalities will surely want to know the dirty details...
(Apart from the obvious ones,such as the internet being full of a*holes)
Cheddar, a class of cheese we all know, is in reality a particular type of cheese, from a particular location (not too far from where I live).
Cheddar is also much less obvious a term as "netbook".
I think litigation like this should only be valid if the sales are actually hurt by watering down of the term. Since Psion probably has zero sales, they should be ignored as a trademark troll.
Also, they created Symbian, which qualifies for 147 evil points.
You don't have to react stellar quality standards immediately. Just have something that works and see whether it flies or not.
Hack some version in few days using Python, and perhaps use the situation to learn/polish your python skills at the same time.
Yeah, but I added an apology as an AC. And of course "using namespace" is a cardinal sin ;-)
Damn, where ary my mod rights when I seed them (+1 funny)
5. C++ can be written to be a lot more portable than your Ruby or Python.
Care to elaborate on that? I have hard time thinking how python code becomes unportable.
The new "auto" declarations really fix one of the biggest gripes with C++. Everybody is dead tired of doing
std::map::iterator it = m.begin()
Now you can just do:
auto ip = m.begin()
It takes much of the pain away from static typing...
I can't think of any programming "language" worse than C++ template programming. I stay away from Boost and really hate what it's doing to C++.
Actually, templates provide a sense of "duck typing" familiar from Python and the likes, but with static linkage and native code performance.
Templates enable quite a lot of things that would look quite awkward without them, and perform terribly. Basically, you rarely need to create your own templated classes - they mostly reside on the "library" side of the application, so most of the time you are not really writing new templates, you are just instantiating them.
I have spent a lot of my programming career programming in C++ without templates (because the platform discouraged their use) - but now, when I'm working on a project that encourages the use of templates, it's a hoot.
Regarding the original topic - I thought everybody, not just the corporates, hate perl. Wake up and smell the python...
Launchpad provides bzr and the most typical project hosting goodies, and obviously beats the bejeezus out of sourceforge.
If they hosted mercurial as well, I would have used that, but the other things outweigh the slight misadvantage of using bzr (which is performance, for large projects). For projects of moderate size, launchpad is a winner.
Smileys do clarify matters (and don't seem juvenile to me - hell, we were using them back in -93. Whining about smileys seems kind of anal retentive, and people who do that probably would better stick with sending paper envelopes and word/excel documents to each other.
However, suffixing a sentence with lol communicates quite a bunch of negative things about the other end.
Over half of all boys agreed with the statement 'I play electronic games because I like guns and weapons.'
Over *half*? What's wrong with the rest of them?
pystone "benchmark", for starters.
If you read the article, the more important thing is that once you have a town to rebuild, or something really serious happens/has happened, you no longer seek the distraction of a video game. You have something more important to do, and games lose their appeal, due to some deep survival instinct.
After all, what better fanbase for Apple to secure than the Babylon 5 tech/trek group? Old nerds with lots of money and few vices.
Regarding the "few vices", apparently Star Trek is exceptionally popular among pedophiles for some mystic reason.
B5, then again... here the episodes actually aired on saturday nights, of all possible times.
The Message passing overhead is still large and makes coding difficult. eg. HURD is still not finished after 20 years.
Speaking of Hurd, I had actually forgotten about the whole thing. You don't see it mentioned as often as you used to, even in jokes. Bad sign?
Bruce says:
As far as Canonical is concerned, one thing that struck me about Mark is that he really insists on control. For example, when I considered being an employee one of the things standing in the way was the fact that Mark doesn't give his employees stock in his companies. If I'm going to work for someone I'm going to be a little entrepreneurial about it, so I felt that although Ubuntu and Canonical could do a great deal for Debian and be excellent community members, they were never going to be the core, and we could actually get closer to the core by following what I have set up for UserLinux.
So no stock for Bruce, ergo Ubuntu is never going to be the core? Is there something missing from the interview?