.deb and.rpm do indeed fullfil the same function, and are more or less equally good. This is exactly why I detest RPM. Why did they have to cook up a new and incompatible format, rather than use.deb?
Why don't you detest Debian instead for sticking to a format that is not the "standard" as specified by LSB, esp. if there are no real technical reasons? Why not go for a format that is being backed by hard corporate money?
For one,yum is *much*, *much* slower than urpmi at dependency resolution, second, I don't think yum supports retreiving packages via ssh/rsync, and I am sure there are others.
Honestly, both points seem rather trivial to me. My experience with yum suggests maximum dependency resolution time of 15 seconds, which is not that big a deal considering that you don't do that too often - and the packages need to be fetched anyway.
. Maybe I haven't used RPMs enough to know why/how they are able to fulfill dependencies (I was gently pushed towards always compiling source early in my *ix newbiehood) but I would think you'd still have to install appropriate RPMs to satisfy RPM dependencies too wouldn't you?
Yes, but the hadnling is automatic these days with software like you and apt-rpm.
I guess you'll have to experience "yum install kde" and see it fetch a zillion packaged to appreciate the work it does for you.
Still, I sigh each time a new RPM-based distro or tool is announced. Why couldn't they just adopt Debian's packaging tools?
There is nothing to be gained from using dpkg over rpm, really. I'm a debian user, and in fact would prefer if Debian switched over to rpm (which is specified in LSB as the standard packaging mechanism, BTW). Dependency resolution and all that works with rpm as well.
Obviously this will happen, because Debian is, well, Debian.
So, what's the difference betweem urpmi and yum? I thought urpmi is equivalent to apt/yum (at least it was advertised as such in the context of Mandrake), but apparently that is not the case...
Again, the MSFT advocacy camp is deliberately muddying the waters by talking of Open Source *in general*, not making a distinction whether you are using OSS (Linux) or producing OSS (some apps that you might want to distribute).
All these governments are clearly more interested in *using* OSS. It only kills MSFT jobs, which is never a bad thing:-). The apps they write are probably not very interesting to larger audiences anyway.
This is an example of what can happen when you don't have a centrally controlled company bearing the responsibility and managing the Intellectual Prop... oh wait, nevermind.
Quite often, fans on motherboard (north bridge, to be exact) are redundant. Those fans also make a lot of annoying whining noise (obviously, being small & all).
I replaced mine with just a heatsink, and so far everything's been fine. Almost broke my motherboard in the replacement process, of course.
So next time you are shopping for a motherboard - ensure that there is *no* fan on the north bridge. Overclocking the north bridge is so 90's anyway;-).
What would be the benefit of giving up the patent? We've already got.png, right?
What would be more interesting is suing someone over it. This patent "cold war" is annoying - it would be more beneficial to see an all-out war where large companies crumble, and the idiocy of software patents is demonstrated once and for all. Cold war only server to suffocate, and masses never learn of the damage being done, because it's so invisible.
Interesting article on how IP law conflicts with ancient chinese tradition is here
But why? What does Debian actually *do* with the tarballs the rest of us download?
Sometimes I wonder this myself. Are the upstream packages too broken to be good enough for debian? Has debian deviated so far from mainstream that the packages require extensive customization? Why can't the fixes be committed directly to upstream?
I bet we can expect a big surge of Debian popularity soon, as the "stable" version becomes up-to-date again, making it usable for something like 6 months at least. Sarge is quite well on the "speet spot" of software released now, with KDE 3.2, Gnome 2.6 and Kernel 2.6, and the last "good" version of xfree (the next good x server is probably some time away anyway).
It's nice to see debian decided not to slash it's own wrist by postponing the release. The problem with debian is, people who make the decisions to release or not are themselves using Unstable, and don't really care either way with the release. The loser is the guy who wants to run Debian stable, but doesn't get a say on if/when they are planning to release.
BTW, one significant turn-off with Debian is the quality of the user base - you need to search far and wide to find as unfriendly a bunch. There is no friendly community that some would expect from such a project. Perhaps it's all the infighting that hardens the people...
Have any of you had any performance problems with these drivers? They seemed to be sooo much slower than the previous driver, I wonder whether some config option needs to be tweaked after the upgrade.
What's extremely commendable, this this time there is a graphical tuning utility. We're getting there...
I've tried cedega as well, and I must say I'm a little bit surprised on how well it works, at least with Debian Sid & new nvidia drivers. Configuration is a snap (just tell them the mount points & drive letters of your windos partitions), and you are pretty much ready to go. One less excuse to boot to Windows - and for many, the last excuse.
Now what we need is a good daemontools-like utility that can mount non-iso images without converting to.iso's first...;-)
Why, except in a few rare cases, would you regularly use a command line IM client in favor of a graphical one? It seems terribly inconvenient.
By command-line I assume you mean text-based (curses/whatever)...
Text based interface can be much more usable, even if it os often less learnable. learnability != uasbility. There is certain amount of "control" in simple text interfaces that you don't have with GUI's which pop subwindows everywhere, have annoying MDI interfaces etc.
Text interfaces also have a distinct technical advantage - they can be detached from the controlling terminal (see 'screen', 'dtach').
Centericq rocks. I use it for icq, and occasional peep at irc channels. No need to stress the mousehand, and it also has a very small footprint. It's apt-gettable, so there's no excuse to not try it:).
One advantage of text based apps is the fact that no window management is required, so minimal keyboard driven window managers like ion and ratpoison can be used optimally.
Sometimes I wonder how the anti-ESR zealots rationalize their actions. Are they jealous because he's so well known ("my program was much more difficult to write than fetchmail, why does nobody quote me"), angry because he has some controversial opinions on firearms, or what?
Apparently people like to cling to all the things they consider personality flaws like starving worms, using them at all opportunities to attack the persons other opinions and activities.
It kinda pisses me off to see valid Microsoft criticism from an Open Source evangelist being attacked just because some asshat takes ESR's hackers dictionary too seriously. Do you really think someone is just trapped in the shadow of ESR, mourning that if ESR was taken down just a notch, he could steal the limelight and rescue the true spirit of open source?
You guys should just pause for a while, and think whether petty arguing among ourselves is more important than the war of spin & fud between us and microsoft. Unless you are working for AdTI, of course - in that case I understand your motivations perfectly.
Grow up. Your mom still lives you more than she loves ESR, no need to feel all sad and droopy.
Trolltech could never dominate KDE or Linux. 'Cause if they would start doing that, KDE can easely fork Qt and continue on it's own.
Not really. It would leave Qt stranded as GPL-only, with not even the remotest possibility of creating an open source application, even if you had the money.
I'd like to reiterate that there are a lot of people that like KDE that might be willing to use it *if* Qt was actually distributed under a sane license, like LGPL.
People really shouldn't fret over the GPL'd status of KDE as far as just using it goes. It's mostly a concern for developers and corporations, not so much individual users. KDE will serve us nicely until Gnome gets better.
However, ultimately, I think that people should stand up for having a *free-as-in-beer* development environment on Linux to write whatever they please, and not the kind of universe with fees and forced reliance upon agreements that TrollTech wants to introduce.
I feel very relaxed about this. Large Linux companies (esp. RH) are very aware of the problem, and won't screw this one up. All the strategic eggs seem to be on the Gnome basket. That won't stop KDE rocking on the individual or even enterprise desktops, however. Qt will never be a requirement for developing a Linux app, and a slight look and feel glitch is not going to prevent a good proprietary product from being succesful on both desktops.
Slashdot Mirror
.deb and .rpm do indeed fullfil the same function, and are more or less equally good. This is exactly why I detest RPM. Why did they have to cook up a new and incompatible format, rather than use .deb?
Why don't you detest Debian instead for sticking to a format that is not the "standard" as specified by LSB, esp. if there are no real technical reasons? Why not go for a format that is being backed by hard corporate money?
Oh. As if that's not easy with urpmi??
Comparison was with configure/make/make install, not urpmi.
For one,yum is *much*, *much* slower than urpmi at dependency resolution, second, I don't think yum supports retreiving packages via ssh/rsync, and I am sure there are others.
Honestly, both points seem rather trivial to me. My experience with yum suggests maximum dependency resolution time of 15 seconds, which is not that big a deal considering that you don't do that too often - and the packages need to be fetched anyway.
The one thing I miss since switching from mandrake to fc2 is urpmi.
So you don't miss your boot sector?
*drumroll*
Sure, it's not really a problem using DAG or some other repository, apt, yum etc, but urpmi is at another level (at least for mandrake).
Isn't that mostly an issue with available repositories, as opposed to software that does the fetching and installing?
. Maybe I haven't used RPMs enough to know why/how they are able to fulfill dependencies (I was gently pushed towards always compiling source early in my *ix newbiehood) but I would think you'd still have to install appropriate RPMs to satisfy RPM dependencies too wouldn't you?
Yes, but the hadnling is automatic these days with software like you and apt-rpm.
I guess you'll have to experience "yum install kde" and see it fetch a zillion packaged to appreciate the work it does for you.
Still, I sigh each time a new RPM-based distro or tool is announced. Why couldn't they just adopt Debian's packaging tools?
There is nothing to be gained from using dpkg over rpm, really. I'm a debian user, and in fact would prefer if Debian switched over to rpm (which is specified in LSB as the standard packaging mechanism, BTW). Dependency resolution and all that works with rpm as well.
Obviously this will happen, because Debian is, well, Debian.
Seriously, is:
make
make install
Really that hard that we need cross distro RPMS?
configure; make; make install does nothing with dependencies. If you, for example, don't have qt development headers on your machine, it just croaks.
So, what's the difference betweem urpmi and yum? I thought urpmi is equivalent to apt/yum (at least it was advertised as such in the context of Mandrake), but apparently that is not the case...
Again, the MSFT advocacy camp is deliberately muddying the waters by talking of Open Source *in general*, not making a distinction whether you are using OSS (Linux) or producing OSS (some apps that you might want to distribute).
:-). The apps they write are probably not very interesting to larger audiences anyway.
All these governments are clearly more interested in *using* OSS. It only kills MSFT jobs, which is never a bad thing
This is an example of what can happen when you don't have a centrally controlled company bearing the responsibility and managing the Intellectual Prop... oh wait, nevermind.
Quite often, fans on motherboard (north bridge, to be exact) are redundant. Those fans also make a lot of annoying whining noise (obviously, being small & all).
;-).
I replaced mine with just a heatsink, and so far everything's been fine. Almost broke my motherboard in the replacement process, of course.
So next time you are shopping for a motherboard - ensure that there is *no* fan on the north bridge. Overclocking the north bridge is so 90's anyway
Real link is here
What would be the benefit of giving up the patent? We've already got .png, right?
What would be more interesting is suing someone over it. This patent "cold war" is annoying - it would be more beneficial to see an all-out war where large companies crumble, and the idiocy of software patents is demonstrated once and for all. Cold war only server to suffocate, and masses never learn of the damage being done, because it's so invisible.
Interesting article on how IP law conflicts with ancient chinese tradition is here
But why? What does Debian actually *do* with the tarballs the rest of us download?
Sometimes I wonder this myself. Are the upstream packages too broken to be good enough for debian? Has debian deviated so far from mainstream that the packages require extensive customization? Why can't the fixes be committed directly to upstream?
I bet we can expect a big surge of Debian popularity soon, as the "stable" version becomes up-to-date again, making it usable for something like 6 months at least. Sarge is quite well on the "speet spot" of software released now, with KDE 3.2, Gnome 2.6 and Kernel 2.6, and the last "good" version of xfree (the next good x server is probably some time away anyway).
It's nice to see debian decided not to slash it's own wrist by postponing the release. The problem with debian is, people who make the decisions to release or not are themselves using Unstable, and don't really care either way with the release. The loser is the guy who wants to run Debian stable, but doesn't get a say on if/when they are planning
to release.
BTW, one significant turn-off with Debian is the quality of the user base - you need to search far and wide to find as unfriendly a bunch. There is no friendly community that some would expect from such a project. Perhaps it's all the infighting that hardens the people...
Have any of you had any performance problems with these drivers? They seemed to be sooo much slower than the previous driver, I wonder whether some config option needs to be tweaked after the upgrade.
What's extremely commendable, this this time there is a graphical tuning utility. We're getting there...
I've tried cedega as well, and I must say I'm a little bit surprised on how well it works, at least with Debian Sid & new nvidia drivers. Configuration is a snap (just tell them the mount points & drive letters of your windos partitions), and you are pretty much ready to go. One less excuse to boot to Windows - and for many, the last excuse.
.iso's first... ;-)
Now what we need is a good daemontools-like utility that can mount non-iso images without converting to
FreeDOS is also an invaluable resource for people who would like to develop their own operating system.
:-).
Doesn't sound like the heritage I would like to learn from
Why do you bother using a Window manager if you do not wish to use any windows? :P
Web browsing.
I meant to say this link.
I guess you could deduce it, but anyway.
Why, except in a few rare cases, would you regularly use a command line IM client in favor of a graphical one? It seems terribly inconvenient.
:-)
By command-line I assume you mean text-based (curses/whatever)...
Text based interface can be much more usable, even if it os often less learnable. learnability != uasbility. There is certain amount of "control" in simple text interfaces that you don't have with GUI's which pop subwindows everywhere, have annoying MDI interfaces etc.
Text interfaces also have a distinct technical advantage - they can be detached from the controlling terminal (see 'screen', 'dtach').
Also check out this
Centericq rocks. I use it for icq, and occasional peep at irc channels. No need to stress the mousehand, and it also has a very small footprint. It's apt-gettable, so there's no excuse to not try it :).
One advantage of text based apps is the fact that no window management is required, so minimal keyboard driven window managers like ion and ratpoison can be used optimally.
Sometimes I wonder how the anti-ESR zealots rationalize their actions. Are they jealous because he's so well known ("my program was much more difficult to write than fetchmail, why does nobody quote me"), angry because he has some controversial opinions on firearms, or what?
Apparently people like to cling to all the things they consider personality flaws like starving worms, using them at all opportunities to attack the persons other opinions and activities.
It kinda pisses me off to see valid Microsoft criticism from an Open Source evangelist being attacked just because some asshat takes ESR's hackers dictionary too seriously. Do you really think someone is just trapped in the shadow of ESR, mourning that if ESR was taken down just a notch, he could steal the limelight and rescue the true spirit of open source?
You guys should just pause for a while, and think whether petty arguing among ourselves is more important than the war of spin & fud between us and microsoft. Unless you are working for AdTI, of course - in that case I understand your motivations perfectly.
Grow up. Your mom still lives you more than she loves ESR, no need to feel all sad and droopy.
Trolltech could never dominate KDE or Linux. 'Cause if they would start doing that, KDE can easely fork Qt and continue on it's own.
Not really. It would leave Qt stranded as GPL-only, with not even the remotest possibility of creating an open source application, even if you had the money.
I'd like to reiterate that there are a lot of people that like KDE that might be willing to use it *if* Qt was actually distributed under a sane license, like LGPL.
People really shouldn't fret over the GPL'd status of KDE as far as just using it goes. It's mostly a concern for developers and corporations, not so much individual users. KDE will serve us nicely until Gnome gets better.
However, ultimately, I think that people should stand up for having a *free-as-in-beer* development environment on Linux to write whatever they please, and not the kind of universe with fees and forced reliance upon agreements that TrollTech wants to introduce.
I feel very relaxed about this. Large Linux companies (esp. RH) are very aware of the problem, and won't screw this one up. All the strategic eggs seem to be on the Gnome basket. That won't stop KDE rocking on the individual or even enterprise desktops, however. Qt will never be a requirement for developing a Linux app, and a slight look and feel glitch is not going to prevent a good proprietary product from being succesful on both desktops.