Haven't commented here for a long time, but to this I must reply to point out something that is not immediately obvious; with SSH X11 forwarding you had better be sure that you trust whoever has root access in the other end because they can quite easily fully hijack your X-session and gain potentially unlimited access to your system.
I too would propose that the term "Framework" pertains to a programming model rather than a toolkit assemblage.
I too would have liked to see a structure built around the different specializations that framworks have been built to address... well, ordered the book anyway:)
As other pet projects have been mentioned here, I submit also mine as an example of a specialized framework, Millstone (www.millstone.org),
don't know if it perhaps got mention in the book under the "along with mentioning more briefly a lot of others." -heading;) (Thanks to parent for the listing!).
"They found a neutron detector in an Idaho Falls scrap metal yard."
Amazing! Same place I found a bunch of rusty old plasma conduits and tritanium phase converters!
I just have to tell that poor old timetraveller who's stuck in our timezone to look up that metal yard for the parts he's missing for his Dimensional Warp Generator model Generation 3 52 4350A watch unit.
The current situation makes it impossible for anyone except big-name and big-money artists to use samples of other artists work. And once again, it is not the original artists who are behind all all this, but the record companies who own the copyrights.
Let me illustrate an example. Back in the early nineties, the copyright on music was still limited to thirty years from creation. At some stage there was a literal surge of brilliant house music based on old 70's funk and soul songs. Now this music was mostly produced by small time artists (show me one big-time house-artist?) who weren't really making any money worth mentioning either. Still, the record companies noted this trend greedily quick and lobbied the new (current) law that keeps copyrights in effect for 70(!) years.
Now think about this, 70 years... , anyone hip on basing a tune on some moley old folk tune recorded on a stone tablet in ancient sumeria? Point is, I *really* doubt that the original 70's artists care 0.02$ for not getting $20 a year of RIAA filtered royalties versus having their work resurected into modern culture, do you?
Finally, since this same type of law applies to movies also, forget about sampling in a cool movie quote in any of your tunes too.
vbwwneie wrote:
The promise of multi-channelling GUI components is an alluring one, and Millstone is certainly impressive in its use of HTML/CSS/Javascript as a rendering target. Presumably having abstracted to that level you could retarget the renderer at an SVG or XSL:FO browser?
Certainly! To clarify, a Millstone renderer is what we call a Terminal Adapters; an adapters recieves from the appliation an XML representation (that we call UIDL, User Interface Description Language) of the state of each component and translates this XML into whatever the terminal can understand and maintains a map of terminal varibles (content of text-fields, state of checkboxes, etc). In the asynchronous Web-Adapter case, the adapter waits for the terminal to send back the updated set of variables that are then passed back to the application for handling.
However, the terminal may also be synchronous, in that case there will be a continuous stream of variables from the terminal->adapter->application and a continuous stream of UIDL from application->adapter->terminal.
Some of the envisioned terminals are Flash (ofcourse), MIDP (almost implemented), Digi-TV, and my personal pet-project of creating a Win32 native adapter per use of the Eclipse widgets.
As it happends, HTTP/HTML is actually one the hardest terminals to implement because of the inherent statelessness of HTTP (and the erratic behaviour of HTML browers..:p ). Many other adapters are (in theory) much easier to implement.
Misguided not. It would have been possible to create an entirely client-side calculator-app that would be fast as lightning, yet this is not what Millstone is for. I'll conceed that the Calc-app is perhaps a bad example-app as it brings forth sentiments like this. It is only intended to demonstrate and tutor the usage of Millstone, and not, in this case, it's power.
One important aspect of Millstone is that the presentation of an app is separated from the underlying logic. This means that once adapters have been made for different terminals, that same Calculator app, without so much as one line of code changed, will work on your cell-phone, digi-tv and terminals that aren't even imagined yet.
As to the responsiveness of the example application, I'd like to point out that it's running on a single server sitting in the room next to me, in Finland... so you're bound to get some netlag if your surfing in from the states. Regarding the/.:ing as an excuse, it is if we never really believed that we'd get on here.:)
Realistically, we're too small to make mega $ hardware investments in preparation for high demand, we just have to wait for that demand to realize itself and then respond to it.
Further discussion regarding the speed and efficiency of the ui transformation process can be found in the serverside.com thread.
By way of information, there actually is such a society of sorts: http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf/F rames?Re adForm&English
It's called Teosto and it is suppoused to collect money for finnish artists, but I have my doubts regarding how effective an organization it really is. It is this organization that imposed the 20 EUR / year fee on the cabbies. They even have last years financial statement online.
Does anyone know of other games that have managed to reappear on such a vast number of platforms over an incredible 20 years? Ofcourse there's Jeff Minter's remakes of Pong, but that was some years ago.
I sure as hell remember when Dragons Lair was new, and even tho one may easily critizise the complexity of the game play I wouldn't be to quick to reflect that onto playability... it was fun as hell in any case.
You're lucky! When we were kids, we used to live in a Einstein-Bosen anomaly in the middle of the road. And every morning, five eons *before* we went to bed, we'd get up sweep the neighbouring five parsecs. And there were no onion peels except once every half an eternity, the coke labels had evolved into bickering slashdotters and ampersands used to murder us twice over. If we were lucky! And in the evening, our dad would come home, beat us to death with an entangled pair and sweep the anomaly clean with our bodies. Then, maybe, we got to break the speed of light, but only if the current year was a prime dividable by the pi and the letters a, c and m. Mark my word, laddie, easy you had it!
Is deletion of directories from the repository and it really ticks me off to no end. We have the same cvs repository for all of our companies documents and projects sources, so you can imagine how over the years it bloats and bloats and not being able to clean it out properly really sucks. For that matter a recursive removal of directories and contained files would pwn too...
Oh and by the way, for you wind0ze users, install TortoiseCVS, it simply owns.//Miqlo
Re:Space Defense Initiative (SDI)
on
Space Wars
·
· Score: 1
Ah, but as the potential negative implications of any action decrease with the increase of totalitarian power, be it military or economic, morals have a tendency to wither.
Imho, we've already seen this tendency in US foreign policy for some time.
The US has perhaps not conquered in the traditional sense, yet that hardly qualifies it as not being a conquering nation bent only on fulfilling it's own interests, the US has conquered economically, and it is also on this battleground that it will be met in the future. I wonder how well the moral bastion will hold up before the "supreme military power of the only superpower on earth" will be used to protect also it's economic superiority... Oh, dang, already been used for that, forgot...
Let me put it this way, you wouldn't give your president the power of a dictator. Why not? Becuase you cherish democracy and are afraid of giving one potential madman the rule of the country. Now, likewise, we of other nations do not take well to the idea of US world domanation, because, as it happends, we too cherish democracy and freedom.
After having just setup our virtual domain/virtual accounts/imap over ssl and smtp over ssl with courier's imapd and exim , I keep getting the nagging feeling that none of it is really thought through...
Which brings me to another thing, has anyone tried Courier's MTA ? Is it any good? I'm not so convinced exim's the best possible choice anymore,
I mean... try to do something with that script lang of theirs... ie.
server_condition = "${if and {{!eq{$2}{}}{!eq{$3}{}} \
{crypteq{$3}{${extract{2}{:} \ {${lookup{$2}lsearch{/etc/passwd}{$value}{*:*}}}}} }}{1}{0}}"
Look ma! Reverse Polish Notation! No son that's just an insane amount of brackets put there to clarify things...
Ok, so it's easier than sendmail, so what... still not easy...
Oh yeah, good luck trying to get your imap/pop/smtp deamons to authenticate virtual useraccounts from the same source...:)
(Murder, she wrote... Our own pam module, we wrote..)
[slightly off-topic]
Wow, I'm on a roll here, so I'll share some more fun experiences.
Server that we cooked up this soup on is running Woody, because the exim in Potato can't do ssmtp.
Ok, so , after finally getting this to work, we note that apt-get update wrecked everthing because our dear maintainer of the courier packages decided that no more shall we support direct usage of authentication modules , Nay! From now on forth authentication shall be done through yonder authdaemon! Add to that the fact that this little update mishap happends five minutes before I'm about to go home, so I happily stays another hour and a half figuring out why the hell our imap service authenticates users no more....
[rant]
Ok, I know, "Woody is an unstable distr. Don't use it in production systems"... Unstable... when do the good folks at Debian intend to pronounce it stable? After another 1.5 years? [/rant]
[/slightly off-topic]
Slashdot Mirror
Haven't commented here for a long time, but to this I must reply to point out something that is not immediately obvious; with SSH X11 forwarding you had better be sure that you trust whoever has root access in the other end because they can quite easily fully hijack your X-session and gain potentially unlimited access to your system.
Miq
I too would have liked to see a structure built around the different specializations that framworks have been built to address... well, ordered the book anyway :)
As other pet projects have been mentioned here, I submit also mine as an example of a specialized framework, Millstone (www.millstone.org), don't know if it perhaps got mention in the book under the "along with mentioning more briefly a lot of others." -heading ;) (Thanks to parent for the listing!).
Miq
"They found a neutron detector in an Idaho Falls scrap metal yard."
Amazing! Same place I found a bunch of rusty old plasma conduits and tritanium phase converters!
I just have to tell that poor old timetraveller who's stuck in our timezone to look up that metal yard for the parts he's missing for his Dimensional Warp Generator model Generation 3 52 4350A watch unit.
The current situation makes it impossible for anyone except big-name and big-money artists to use samples of other artists work. And once again, it is not the original artists who are behind all all this, but the record companies who own the copyrights.
... , anyone hip on basing a tune on some moley old folk tune recorded on a stone tablet in ancient sumeria? Point is, I *really* doubt that the original 70's artists care 0.02$ for not getting $20 a year of RIAA filtered royalties versus having their work resurected into modern culture, do you?
Let me illustrate an example. Back in the early nineties, the copyright on music was still limited to thirty years from creation. At some stage there was a literal surge of brilliant house music based on old 70's funk and soul songs. Now this music was mostly produced by small time artists (show me one big-time house-artist?) who weren't really making any money worth mentioning either. Still, the record companies noted this trend greedily quick and lobbied the new (current) law that keeps copyrights in effect for 70(!) years.
Now think about this, 70 years
Finally, since this same type of law applies to movies also, forget about sampling in a cool movie quote in any of your tunes too.
Miq
LOL! Kamala (in Finnish) = Terrible
;)
No loss to waste her then
Looks like Tom's going to need some new hardware to cope with the /.ing ;)
Miq
Certainly! To clarify, a Millstone renderer is what we call a Terminal Adapters; an adapters recieves from the appliation an XML representation (that we call UIDL, User Interface Description Language) of the state of each component and translates this XML into whatever the terminal can understand and maintains a map of terminal varibles (content of text-fields, state of checkboxes, etc). In the asynchronous Web-Adapter case, the adapter waits for the terminal to send back the updated set of variables that are then passed back to the application for handling.
However, the terminal may also be synchronous, in that case there will be a continuous stream of variables from the terminal->adapter->application and a continuous stream of UIDL from application->adapter->terminal.
Some of the envisioned terminals are Flash (ofcourse), MIDP (almost implemented), Digi-TV, and my personal pet-project of creating a Win32 native adapter per use of the Eclipse widgets.
As it happends, HTTP/HTML is actually one the hardest terminals to implement because of the inherent statelessness of HTTP (and the erratic behaviour of HTML browers.. :p ). Many other adapters are (in theory) much easier to implement.
Hope that cleared some things up.
Greets,
Peter
Misguided not. It would have been possible to create an entirely client-side calculator-app that would be fast as lightning, yet this is not what Millstone is for. I'll conceed that the Calc-app is perhaps a bad example-app as it brings forth sentiments like this. It is only intended to demonstrate and tutor the usage of Millstone, and not, in this case, it's power.
... so you're bound to get some netlag if your surfing in from the states. Regarding the /. :ing as an excuse, it is if we never really believed that we'd get on here. :)
One important aspect of Millstone is that the presentation of an app is separated from the underlying logic. This means that once adapters have been made for different terminals, that same Calculator app, without so much as one line of code changed, will work on your cell-phone, digi-tv and terminals that aren't even imagined yet.
As to the responsiveness of the example application, I'd like to point out that it's running on a single server sitting in the room next to me, in Finland
Realistically, we're too small to make mega $ hardware investments in preparation for high demand, we just have to wait for that demand to realize itself and then respond to it.
Further discussion regarding the speed and efficiency of the ui transformation process can be found in the serverside.com thread.
Regards,
Peter Bäck
Aaah, but we only took the good bits :)
None of that pesky relational sizings and layouts to size contained components that *never* works like you expect or even, intend.
Miq
Lol, good irony indeed, yet the real etymology of the name, is the name of our company that created it, IT Mill Ltd.
Miq
Gah... gnhhh... The french .... Rocket failure ... can't resist obvious joke .... gnnnhhh ... Did any of them surrender when it blew up? ;)
... Are Teosto, the , Finnish Composers' Copyright Society. /.ers and show em our outrage by /.ing their server:
http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf/Frames?Re adForm&English :)
Now go be good
By way of information, there actually is such a society of sorts:F rames?Re adForm&English
http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf/
It's called Teosto and it is suppoused to collect money for finnish artists, but I have my doubts
regarding how effective an organization it really is. It is this organization that imposed the 20 EUR / year fee on the cabbies. They even have last years financial statement online.
Does anyone know of other games that have managed to reappear on such a vast number of platforms over an incredible 20 years? Ofcourse there's Jeff Minter's remakes of Pong, but that was some years ago.
I sure as hell remember when Dragons Lair was new, and even tho one may easily critizise the complexity of the game play I wouldn't be to quick to reflect that onto playability... it was fun as hell in any case.
Miqlo
You're lucky!
When we were kids, we used to live in a Einstein-Bosen anomaly in the middle of the road. And every morning, five eons *before* we went to bed, we'd get up sweep the neighbouring five parsecs. And there were no onion peels except once every half an eternity, the coke labels had evolved into bickering slashdotters and ampersands used to murder us twice over. If we were lucky! And in the evening, our dad would come home, beat us to death with an entangled pair and sweep the anomaly clean with our bodies. Then, maybe, we got to break the speed of light, but only if the current year was a prime dividable by the pi and the letters a, c and m.
Mark my word, laddie, easy you had it!
Or else our uber-geekazoid father of all things good and true would surely post a little trollet in this thread? ;) //Miqlo (från Åbo)
Is deletion of directories from the repository and it really ticks me off to no end. We have the same cvs repository for all of our companies documents and projects sources, so you can imagine how over the years it bloats and bloats and not being able to clean it out properly really sucks. For that matter a recursive removal of directories and contained files would pwn too... Oh and by the way, for you wind0ze users, install TortoiseCVS, it simply owns. //Miqlo
Ah, but as the potential negative implications of any action decrease with the increase of totalitarian power, be it military or economic, morals have a tendency to wither.
Imho, we've already seen this tendency in US foreign policy for some time.
The US has perhaps not conquered in the traditional sense, yet that hardly qualifies it as not being a conquering nation bent only on fulfilling it's own interests, the US has conquered economically, and it is also on this battleground that it will be met in the future. I wonder how well the moral bastion will hold up before the "supreme military power of the only superpower on earth" will be used to protect also it's economic superiority... Oh, dang, already been used for that, forgot...
Let me put it this way, you wouldn't give your president the power of a dictator. Why not? Becuase you cherish democracy and are afraid of giving one potential madman the rule of the country. Now, likewise, we of other nations do not take well to the idea of US world domanation, because, as it happends, we too cherish democracy and freedom.
After having just setup our virtual domain/virtual accounts/imap over ssl and smtp over ssl with courier's imapd and exim , I keep getting the nagging feeling that none of it is really thought through ...
... try to do something with that script lang of theirs ... ie.
} }}{1}{0}}"
... still not easy ...
... :)
... Our own pam module, we wrote..)
... when do the good folks at Debian intend to pronounce it stable? After another 1.5 years? [/rant]
:)
Which brings me to another thing, has anyone tried Courier's MTA ? Is it any good? I'm not so convinced exim's the best possible choice anymore,
I mean
server_condition = "${if and {{!eq{$2}{}}{!eq{$3}{}} \
{crypteq{$3}{${extract{2}{:} \ {${lookup{$2}lsearch{/etc/passwd}{$value}{*:*}}}}
Look ma! Reverse Polish Notation! No son that's just an insane amount of brackets put there to clarify things...
Ok, so it's easier than sendmail, so what
Oh yeah, good luck trying to get your imap/pop/smtp deamons to authenticate virtual useraccounts from the same source
(Murder, she wrote
[slightly off-topic]
Wow, I'm on a roll here, so I'll share some more fun experiences.
Server that we cooked up this soup on is running Woody, because the exim in Potato can't do ssmtp.
Ok, so , after finally getting this to work, we note that apt-get update wrecked everthing because our dear maintainer of the courier packages decided that no more shall we support direct usage of authentication modules , Nay! From now on forth authentication shall be done through yonder authdaemon! Add to that the fact that this little update mishap happends five minutes before I'm about to go home, so I happily stays another hour and a half figuring out why the hell our imap service authenticates users no more....
[rant]
Ok, I know, "Woody is an unstable distr. Don't use it in production systems"... Unstable
[/slightly off-topic]
Miqlo's $0.02 , I'll be wanting it back soon.