http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml An engineer or a programmer makes $252/month on average. Are you shitting me that a factory worker making $275/month AT ENTRY LEVEL is worse off?! Entry Level. Starts at $275/month. Makes *more* money than a programmer or an engineer.
Please stop it with your assumptions and "$700 is the median wage" bullshit.
An interesting note - in addition to being able to send US$250/month back home (equivalent to a programmer's monthly pay), the worker had also saved enough in 3 years there to start his own construction company once he leaves. The average American has 10% to 30% credit card debt alone, much less think about doing anything other than continuing to work day in day out.
Then perhaps you should educate yourself first before making allegations that are untrue? Apple has raised working conditions at their factories far above most others.
You can do a simple google search and find articles and interviews where factory workers are bitching about not being able to work overtime - a lot of them work for 3-4 years, and take their savings back to their village and can start their own small business, buy a home, and get married.
Just a comparison - in China, an Apple factory worker makes $350 to $700/month. A computer programmer makes $350/month. A pilot makes $500 to $700/month. Let me repeat that - an unskilled factory worker makes as much as a college educated programmer, or a professional pilot. And you think this sucks for the factory worker how?
As for suicides, these are campus towns. When you have 100,000 people working there, it's larger than a college university. The suicide rates for an average city of 100k people is far above the suicide rates at a 100k people Apple factory/town. Are you under some kind of assumption that in 100k people, there will be zero suicides?
Feel free to use Google and update your knowledge base, so that the next time you want to attack Apple, at least you'd be basing it on facts.
You honestly think that what you do is so special that any competent programmer is unable to do it?
People like you make me sick.
I have made it a point in my career to teach people what I know, and as a result of that, I've had my salary doubled in less than 2 years, been promoted, etc. I liked that. And the people I worked for appreciated having a deeper bench strength, and when I moved, they kept in touch.
You might want to check out the bit that says "other duties as assigned" or sometimes, "other reasonable duties" that is normal in staff augmentation contracts.
Does it mean you have to work extra hours? No, it means the time spent mentoring the new guy takes time away from your development time.
As it is, I would see that as part of the assignment if you worked for me. If you disagree, there's the door.
He's a fucking idiot because he is trying to equate chinese manufactured products to be virus ladened. Forgetting that, as others have pointed out, various government and corporate bodies, and even private individuals, have sent out tools and products.
There wasn't much in the way of replies when I posted, although I may well have missed them.
That aside, I didn't read the GP's comment that got him moderated flamebait, but I think it's a reasonable assumption at this point in time that Chinese-designed equipment is likely to be compromised and/or a knockoff. If it makes me a racist to say so then I guess I am whatever the crowd says I am.
I think they also know - the first time someone finds one of these is when everyone distrusts them so much that they would never gain it back. And unlike the USA, they don't have the goodwill behind them.
But then again, stupidity knows no bounds, so some low level idiot may feel that they have the power to coerce some companies to do that.
Go read On Trusting Trust again. If Ken Thompson just kept quiet, most of your "appliance" devices would have a builtin backdoor as login.c and the compiler propagated.
Is Huawei's stuff backdoored? Damned if I know. However, they are willing to provide source code. *IF* the customer can compile the source code, using the customer's own compiler, and install it, and the thing uses bog standard components, then is it *ANY MORE DANGEROUS* than a box from Cisco or an "American" company? Go read up on how stuxnet got into target.
I don't disagree with any of your points. Who said anything about trusting stuff built 'at home'? I'm talking specifically about distrusting Chinese gear but that is no dichotomy: I assume any new product is rubbish unless proven otherwise, regardless of where it is made.
When you only criticize one side, when the issue is much much larger than that one side, you make it appear that that is the only one worth criticizing.
If any new product is rubbish, but you only make statements that "new chinese products are rubbish", you color yourself as one sided and cannot fault others for thinking you think that way.
He's a fucking idiot because he is trying to equate chinese manufactured products to be virus ladened. Forgetting that, as others have pointed out, various government and corporate bodies, and even private individuals, have sent out tools and products.
Go read On Trusting Trust again. If Ken Thompson just kept quiet, most of your "appliance" devices would have a builtin backdoor as login.c and the compiler propagated.
Is Huawei's stuff backdoored? Damned if I know. However, they are willing to provide source code. *IF* the customer can compile the source code, using the customer's own compiler, and install it, and the thing uses bog standard components, then is it *ANY MORE DANGEROUS* than a box from Cisco or an "American" company? Go read up on how stuxnet got into target.
Right... just like Lotus Notes used to be 40 bits weaker when shipped overseas, much to the chagrin of the various European governments that used it prior to that little discovery.
And you obviously haven't been following the news about companies like HBGary and all these other defense contractors.
My current pet hate for that is the damned webex desktop sharing session. I have a nice 27" monitor with 2560x1600 resolution. Everytime WebEx starts a desktop sharing session, it takes over my entire fucking monitor, even if the other side is using a 1024x768 laptop.
My calls into WebEx? "You're not our customer, go away."
So, I start telling my vendors - file a bug report saying customer hates it. Maybe one day, they will wake up and only use the resolution needed instead of taking over the entire fucking desktop.
The issue isn't whether some chinese or some american branded piece of equipment and thus chinese are hackers or americans are hackers.
You do realize even Microsoft had shipped CDs with a virus on them before. This is either a lack of QC/procedures, allowing something to get in to the image, or a malicious act.
Country of origin is irrelevant. If you still feel it is, remember, StuxNet came from the US government.
I have been installing slackware since 1995 when you had to have 50 floppies. I never had issues. Then again, PCI have been around since the early 1990s.
Slashdot Mirror
A little googling gets you the following links:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
An engineer or a programmer makes $252/month on average. Are you shitting me that a factory worker making $275/month AT ENTRY LEVEL is worse off?! Entry Level. Starts at $275/month. Makes *more* money than a programmer or an engineer.
Please stop it with your assumptions and "$700 is the median wage" bullshit.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/apple-foxconn-workers-idUSL3E8EU4I820120330
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/apple-economy/reporters-notebook-both-sides-gates-foxconn
Better articles with wage information.
An interesting note - in addition to being able to send US$250/month back home (equivalent to a programmer's monthly pay), the worker had also saved enough in 3 years there to start his own construction company once he leaves. The average American has 10% to 30% credit card debt alone, much less think about doing anything other than continuing to work day in day out.
Who is actually worse off?
Why should Apple pay more for a worker to insert a chip into a motherboard, when every other company already pays substantially less than Apple?
Then perhaps you should educate yourself first before making allegations that are untrue? Apple has raised working conditions at their factories far above most others.
You can do a simple google search and find articles and interviews where factory workers are bitching about not being able to work overtime - a lot of them work for 3-4 years, and take their savings back to their village and can start their own small business, buy a home, and get married.
Just a comparison - in China, an Apple factory worker makes $350 to $700/month. A computer programmer makes $350/month. A pilot makes $500 to $700/month. Let me repeat that - an unskilled factory worker makes as much as a college educated programmer, or a professional pilot. And you think this sucks for the factory worker how?
As for suicides, these are campus towns. When you have 100,000 people working there, it's larger than a college university. The suicide rates for an average city of 100k people is far above the suicide rates at a 100k people Apple factory/town. Are you under some kind of assumption that in 100k people, there will be zero suicides?
Feel free to use Google and update your knowledge base, so that the next time you want to attack Apple, at least you'd be basing it on facts.
Funny how in a thread about Samsung, someone must come out and say "but Apple also sucks" like this then makes it all better.
And comparing Apple to rape is a bit much, isn't it?
And all the idiot moderators that modded this interesting, WTF are you smoking?
URL?
You honestly think that what you do is so special that any competent programmer is unable to do it?
People like you make me sick.
I have made it a point in my career to teach people what I know, and as a result of that, I've had my salary doubled in less than 2 years, been promoted, etc. I liked that. And the people I worked for appreciated having a deeper bench strength, and when I moved, they kept in touch.
You might want to check out the bit that says "other duties as assigned" or sometimes, "other reasonable duties" that is normal in staff augmentation contracts.
Does it mean you have to work extra hours? No, it means the time spent mentoring the new guy takes time away from your development time.
As it is, I would see that as part of the assignment if you worked for me. If you disagree, there's the door.
So, basically, blackmail them? That's going to work out so well.
You do realize that a contractor's work ends some day, right?
Yes. He is a contractor. That means hourly rate. He is not asked to do overtime and teach the kid on his own time.
Geek boy has it right. You don't have to train him in comp sci, but showing him the ropes about the app is within scope.
Since most of the new stuff is in software, will the S3 get it, or will S3 only get 4.2, without all the S4 software?
He's a fucking idiot because he is trying to equate chinese manufactured products to be virus ladened. Forgetting that, as others have pointed out, various government and corporate bodies, and even private individuals, have sent out tools and products.
There wasn't much in the way of replies when I posted, although I may well have missed them.
That aside, I didn't read the GP's comment that got him moderated flamebait, but I think it's a reasonable assumption at this point in time that Chinese-designed equipment is likely to be compromised and/or a knockoff. If it makes me a racist to say so then I guess I am whatever the crowd says I am.
I think they also know - the first time someone finds one of these is when everyone distrusts them so much that they would never gain it back. And unlike the USA, they don't have the goodwill behind them.
But then again, stupidity knows no bounds, so some low level idiot may feel that they have the power to coerce some companies to do that.
Go read On Trusting Trust again. If Ken Thompson just kept quiet, most of your "appliance" devices would have a builtin backdoor as login.c and the compiler propagated.
Is Huawei's stuff backdoored? Damned if I know. However, they are willing to provide source code. *IF* the customer can compile the source code, using the customer's own compiler, and install it, and the thing uses bog standard components, then is it *ANY MORE DANGEROUS* than a box from Cisco or an "American" company? Go read up on how stuxnet got into target.
I don't disagree with any of your points. Who said anything about trusting stuff built 'at home'? I'm talking specifically about distrusting Chinese gear but that is no dichotomy: I assume any new product is rubbish unless proven otherwise, regardless of where it is made.
When you only criticize one side, when the issue is much much larger than that one side, you make it appear that that is the only one worth criticizing.
If any new product is rubbish, but you only make statements that "new chinese products are rubbish", you color yourself as one sided and cannot fault others for thinking you think that way.
Grudges can be held for a couple of hundred years - see the hundred year war (which did not last for a hundred years, I know, I know).
But once it gets past a couple of hundred thousand years, those eventually go away.
Hope that helps. But feel free to come back in 200,000 years and tell me I'm wrong...
Uh, if you follow the money, Peter Ho is a paid spokesperson for Samsung...
There are two kinds of Androids. Nexus, and non-Nexus. Which ones get updates again?
And when we are talking about market share, should we differentiate the two?
He's a fucking idiot because he is trying to equate chinese manufactured products to be virus ladened. Forgetting that, as others have pointed out, various government and corporate bodies, and even private individuals, have sent out tools and products.
Go read On Trusting Trust again. If Ken Thompson just kept quiet, most of your "appliance" devices would have a builtin backdoor as login.c and the compiler propagated.
Is Huawei's stuff backdoored? Damned if I know. However, they are willing to provide source code. *IF* the customer can compile the source code, using the customer's own compiler, and install it, and the thing uses bog standard components, then is it *ANY MORE DANGEROUS* than a box from Cisco or an "American" company? Go read up on how stuxnet got into target.
You and whoever the hell AC is, can both go have your own private little war somewhere else, kthanks.
Right... just like Lotus Notes used to be 40 bits weaker when shipped overseas, much to the chagrin of the various European governments that used it prior to that little discovery.
And you obviously haven't been following the news about companies like HBGary and all these other defense contractors.
My current pet hate for that is the damned webex desktop sharing session. I have a nice 27" monitor with 2560x1600 resolution. Everytime WebEx starts a desktop sharing session, it takes over my entire fucking monitor, even if the other side is using a 1024x768 laptop.
My calls into WebEx? "You're not our customer, go away."
So, I start telling my vendors - file a bug report saying customer hates it. Maybe one day, they will wake up and only use the resolution needed instead of taking over the entire fucking desktop.
That is because you are a fucking idiot.
The issue isn't whether some chinese or some american branded piece of equipment and thus chinese are hackers or americans are hackers.
You do realize even Microsoft had shipped CDs with a virus on them before. This is either a lack of QC/procedures, allowing something to get in to the image, or a malicious act.
Country of origin is irrelevant. If you still feel it is, remember, StuxNet came from the US government.
Again, how many times do I have to tell you about using common sense on the Internet...?
It's too bad Google won't let you block an arbitrary number of websites from your search results permanently
Here ya go.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-chrome-extension-block-sites-from.html
I have been installing slackware since 1995 when you had to have 50 floppies. I never had issues. Then again, PCI have been around since the early 1990s.
Exactly! My slackware installs are much *MUCH* easier than effing around with RedHat.
Apparently you feel that all workers are like you. Everyone does the same kind of work you do, etc etc.
That is part of the problem. The inability to see beyond yourself.