You know you're right. I also dont think that anyone is going to be able to stop the speed at which information is shared and it is only going to get worse, but what I think will be interesting is
What happens if the Big media collapses (i know, i know, just bare with me) and you no longer have Big media paying artists to produce. How Are You Going to Pay Them, because they will need to be paid, if just to eat?
You arent going to pay them by buying a copy or at least you arent going to pay them with that mindset,because making a digital copy costs almost nothing.
What I think may happen is that Our ideas about IP will change. Our ideas that We have a Right to listen or see anything, may change. Another way to say this is, just because I can get an MP3 doesnt give me the right to listen to it. (note, Im talking about rights, and not real-life practicalities here)
I think what may happen is that You and I are going to very IP(music, programs, art, words, sound, Media) as a very distinct product of a certain mind. And what You and I are going to pay for is access to what this Mind (the artist) creates.
Only in that way, do I see anyhope for art to continue to be made and still have a way to people to be rewarded for it
Actually, if you read in the news, the FBI did in fact contact MS and ask them about the Hole, because there were concerns that there were a lot of vulnerable computers that MS didnt inform, and the FBI had a very strong talk with MS, any wonder why they declared this month to be Fix-Bug Month?
Mmmmm, not a bad point, I see what you mean is to say that if we really put kernel tress head to head in preformance, then the developers will ingore security issues? not bad, could be. I need more data from you about that
As for who would decide the race conditions, Im sure that woulnd tbe too hard to come up, of course the obvious downpart would be if the racers themselves choose the race conditions but i think that could be solved no?
What a nice article and it seems to come at a time just then everyone is talking about "Fork this and Fork that" that in fact this is exactly what is needed in this healthy debate.
I think perhaps that we should start having "kernel" races if you will, and we could have various categories (ie, I/O races, Stress test races) in which the various trees would compete and by-and-by the best kernel trees would become known.
Anyone who argues that an older version is the way to go is fooling themselves.
Well Im certainly arguing this, as Most Production computers Used for Real Work are no where near the cutting edge.
I think that part of you is trying to have their cake and eat it too.
If you want newer advanced features, you have to understand that they are indeed Newer features, less mature and all
anyway, I look forwad to your reply
Re:This is more about copyrights in a digital worl
on
The Napsterization of TV
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
How do media artists make a living when their product can be copied an infinite number of times for virtually zero cost?
You know, I've been thinking about this for a bit. Something along the lines of
1. Just suppose for whatever reason, Copyright can not be enforced and
2. Suppose that not only can Copyright not be enforced but the means of distribution can not be controlled.
Oh I imagine something like, someone somewhere will always be able to break whatever Code, the Media decideds to use, and that soon enough everyone will use encryption so that no one will know what is flying over the Net.
3. What happnes to the Artist? Oh sure, everyone talks about how the artist will get money from people that care, or from live preformaces, but I think this really Ignores the fundamental idea of IP (intellectual Property
4. I wonder if its really the Creative Process we are being ask to pay for? I think this might be an interesting argument because it would certainly go a long to nullifying a lot of arguments that go something like
"Well, if it doesnt cost them anything to re-produce or make more copies, then dont have any right to profit on something that costs them almost nothing"
I think what an Artist could argue is that "I am going to show you something, that you could not have come up with on your own, be it words or music or pictures or what have you, and I am charging you to experience. I am not charging you for this digital copy or that digital copy, but You are giving me money so that I can allow you see what I have made
Now I know some may argue that WE have a right to see al information, but I am not exactly sure this is true. And this can bring up a whole slew of other discussions,
but for now, I really do think that these issues are going to come to head as we come more and more to understand exactly what we are dealing with when it comes to digital data. I think it will be a very interesting debate
1. Paging debates: Yes, I agree it seems that there has been a lot of talk about it, but it has been out in the open AND the potential vulnerabilities are well known AND if you need security you cant Beat the stable debian kernel 2.2, which I geuss is another way of saying that you Know Very Well that you can have can have problems as you are told up front
2, We are talking about Pre-Release forks here (which i geuss is part of point 1) and we are talking about MS releaseing Release canidates, but know about Huge Security Holes like the plug and play
Look, the obvious point about this should be that the reason Linux has more known vulnerabilities is that linux has always been very open about what is wrong with linux.
As for MS, I only have to point to the the major bug, that they knew about for weeks, but didn't let anybody know about!
Now Im not saying that linux is more secure (as much as i would like to) but the data and report based from it, just makes no sense, if you think about how vulnerabilties are and are not reported
Its actually true. Money is not a motivator and a recent, heard it on NPR, showed that acutually having more money can in the long run ruin your happiness.
The argument goes something like this
1. In the study, most people agreed that if they only had 20% more money they would be happy (ie, money would buy happiness)
2. But as the study looked at people over a long time, they found that people in the lower and middle classes actaully felt happier than upper higher incomes.
How does this work?
1. if you are lower or middle class, then 20% more money can be more easily achieved, so more people then to achieve that goal in the long run, versus
2. With the upper income, 20% is much harder to achieve, so the long run they dont achieve their happiness as often,
3. Hence Carmach may have felt he has reached a level that he doesnt need more money, ie it doesnt make him more happy
Yes, Its the work on the press's lips because they were afraid that we would end up in another boondoggle when we went after the Taliban, just as we did end up in a boondoggle in vietnam
Normally I dont responf to AC's but the fallacy in his thinking needs to be pointed out
Windows service packs are released for free So no need to upgrade just to play
1. Ms has made it quite clear that they wanted people to pay for XP as a subscription model.
2. There is no early reason why they would make the claim that the "value" you get for your subscription money is an up-to-date system which includes bug! The point is that they dont feel that they should continue to their software for free.
3. That means, that You will no longer get service packs for free as these can be viewed as Service Pack upgrade or even a NEW VERSION, the point being that you will need to pay
4. The other point, that MS has back off from, for the time being, is that they want software to be time-limited, which is to say that if you dont pay a subscription fee, then you no longer have the right to use the software, ie, in another words MS has clearly stated they want to change the way people view software from being views as a buy once commidity to something like Cable Tv in which you pay every month, and if you dont pay, you dont Watch, ie you cant play your games on their OS.
What is clear that MS does intend to make the os XP a subscription service, and what I was trying to point out is that right now, that is not the model that game players deal with. They dont continue to pay sony to play their old playstation console. Here, in time, you would have to pay to continue to use XP to allow you continue to play your games.
Ah but, but point is that, I think even MS knows that charing gamers, twice to play (ie one for the OS, which will players will continue to have to pay to use) and the game itself, may start to become a real liability.
however, im not going to dispute the fact windows is the defacto gaming platform, but it starting to build up dis-advantages
This is true, but from an anlysis our group did,
we did find one interesting factor that could actually make make the windows-based platform not viable anymore.
The fact is that up to now, hardware, the OS software and, for the most part, games have been a pay-once/play forever deal.
With XP, this model is trying to be changed, so not only do you have to keep paying to use XP, but you can think of it as an additional cost to playing your games.
If you dont beleive, think about the Xbox. Now where does MS suggest that you will need to pay to continue to use the Xbox(for now), and that is their games development platform, thus they wisely avoided trying to charge gamers for the OS they are playing on, thus I do think that Linux does have a chance of being a gameing platform, but this is not an advantage that linux only shares, because right now, we dont pay for OS's for any gaming platform ( I mean, PS2, gamexube, etc...) we just pay for the games,
So what I am trying to say is the C# really isnt a good choce because the OS it is to written, now comes with more Costs than any other OS.
Having been on the dev-team of a popular MMPOG, I have to say that while your ideas are fundamentally correct, but now is not the time to learn c#, just to add another language to your CV. In addition, C# is too OS limited as it stands and you need to be thinking outside the box.
I've been thinking about this for a bit,
Is Neal a bad writer?
well there is evidence to point that is not a bad writer, take fer instance the first chapter of Snow Crash, when he writes about the pizza deliverator. That more than anything else made his reputation and deservedly so,
Now, I will the first to admit that what Neal dosent have, and this may be explained by his almost graphic need to write a academic tome, is the ability to pace. He doesnt really have the ability to explain big things clearly, but then again this is hard to do. I gave as an examply the last chaptors of The diamond Age, clearly what he watned to indicate was large, spontaneously reacting, events but it ends up being read as a bit of mash, it took me several times to read it, because I get the feeling that while Neal knows whats going on, he himslef doesnt quite have a good handle on it.
Another way to think of this is to say, that you can tell if you dont have a good handle on a subject when you see how you explain it to someone else. If you explanation of the idea is muddled, then your grasp on the idea is as well muddled.
Perhaps, what we see is that when neal really has a good grip on a thing (the pizza scence) he writes SF as well, and with as much imagery, as anyone else, but
when he doesnt have a good grasp, he will still plow ahead (and good for him!) into more difficult subjects, but its clear he is still struggling.
Actually, from reading that and from other interviews, I would imagine him to acutally read slashdot, and occasionally post to explore some thoughts, of course, im sure he has better ways of doing this, but it is not an impossibility, perhaps "astronomicall improbably"
Yes, you're right but what I think the guy was talking about is that also,
you tend to see the most extreme specialization in places where populations are cut off.
Ie, take the galapogos (spelling?) islands where Darwin first got his ideas. He noticed how specialized the birds of these islands had become, in comparison to their main-land brethen. The idea being that given a population that is isolated, certain charactistics can be more easily selected for , instead of having to try to select it out of much bigger population. Of course, the problem with this guy's (the article) opinions is that it does smak of segregation and other asty thoughts, but he should be given a fair consideration
Slashdot Mirror
What happens if the Big media collapses (i know, i know, just bare with me) and you no longer have Big media paying artists to produce. How Are You Going to Pay Them, because they will need to be paid, if just to eat?
You arent going to pay them by buying a copy or at least you arent going to pay them with that mindset,because making a digital copy costs almost nothing.
What I think may happen is that Our ideas about IP will change. Our ideas that We have a Right to listen or see anything, may change. Another way to say this is, just because I can get an MP3 doesnt give me the right to listen to it. (note, Im talking about rights, and not real-life practicalities here)
I think what may happen is that You and I are going to very IP(music, programs, art, words, sound, Media) as a very distinct product of a certain mind. And what You and I are going to pay for is access to what this Mind (the artist) creates.
Only in that way, do I see anyhope for art to continue to be made and still have a way to people to be rewarded for it
Please, i lookj forward to your comments!
Actually, if you read in the news, the FBI did in fact contact MS and ask them about the Hole, because there were concerns that there were a lot of vulnerable computers that MS didnt inform, and the FBI had a very strong talk with MS, any wonder why they declared this month to be Fix-Bug Month?
Thanks!
True, but I think his main focus is not tech effect on culture, but how tech makes culture even more important when it is compared to other cultures
Mmmmm, not a bad point, I see what you mean is to say that if we really put kernel tress head to head in preformance, then the developers will ingore security issues? not bad, could be. I need more data from you about that
As for who would decide the race conditions, Im sure that woulnd tbe too hard to come up, of course the obvious downpart would be if the racers themselves choose the race conditions but i think that could be solved no?
What a nice article and it seems to come at a time just then everyone is talking about "Fork this and Fork that" that in fact this is exactly what is needed in this healthy debate.
I think perhaps that we should start having "kernel" races if you will, and we could have various categories (ie, I/O races, Stress test races) in which the various trees would compete and by-and-by the best kernel trees would become known.
Please, I would like to hear your comments!
Anyone who argues that an older version is the way to go is fooling themselves.
Well Im certainly arguing this, as Most Production computers Used for Real Work are no where near the cutting edge.
I think that part of you is trying to have their cake and eat it too.
If you want newer advanced features, you have to understand that they are indeed Newer features, less mature and all
anyway, I look forwad to your reply
How do media artists make a living when their product can be copied an infinite number of times for virtually zero cost?
You know, I've been thinking about this for a bit. Something along the lines of
1. Just suppose for whatever reason, Copyright can not be enforced and
2. Suppose that not only can Copyright not be enforced but the means of distribution can not be controlled.
Oh I imagine something like, someone somewhere will always be able to break whatever Code, the Media decideds to use, and that soon enough everyone will use encryption so that no one will know what is flying over the Net.
3. What happnes to the Artist? Oh sure, everyone talks about how the artist will get money from people that care, or from live preformaces, but I think this really Ignores the fundamental idea of IP (intellectual Property
4. I wonder if its really the Creative Process we are being ask to pay for? I think this might be an interesting argument because it would certainly go a long to nullifying a lot of arguments that go something like
"Well, if it doesnt cost them anything to re-produce or make more copies, then dont have any right to profit on something that costs them almost nothing"
I think what an Artist could argue is that "I am going to show you something, that you could not have come up with on your own, be it words or music or pictures or what have you, and I am charging you to experience. I am not charging you for this digital copy or that digital copy, but You are giving me money so that I can allow you see what I have made
Now I know some may argue that WE have a right to see al information, but I am not exactly sure this is true. And this can bring up a whole slew of other discussions,
but for now, I really do think that these issues are going to come to head as we come more and more to understand exactly what we are dealing with when it comes to digital data. I think it will be a very interesting debate
Thanks!
Hmmmm,
I guess I can take you up on two points
1. Paging debates: Yes, I agree it seems that there has been a lot of talk about it, but it has been out in the open AND the potential vulnerabilities are well known AND if you need security you cant Beat the stable debian kernel 2.2, which I geuss is another way of saying that you Know Very Well that you can have can have problems as you are told up front
2, We are talking about Pre-Release forks here (which i geuss is part of point 1) and we are talking about MS releaseing Release canidates, but know about Huge Security Holes like the plug and play
No?
Thanks
ah this one
O DY
the universal plug and play
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/676671.asp?cp1=1#B
Thanks
Look, the obvious point about this should be that the reason Linux has more known vulnerabilities is that linux has always been very open about what is wrong with linux.
As for MS, I only have to point to the the major bug, that they knew about for weeks, but didn't let anybody know about!
Now Im not saying that linux is more secure (as much as i would like to) but the data and report based from it, just makes no sense, if you think about how vulnerabilties are and are not reported
Thanks for reading!
Ture. I have always thought it funny when people say money cant buy happiness, because I no of no problem that can not be made better with money.
THanks
Christ, your an ass.
Its actually true. Money is not a motivator and a recent, heard it on NPR, showed that acutually having more money can in the long run ruin your happiness.
The argument goes something like this
1. In the study, most people agreed that if they only had 20% more money they would be happy (ie, money would buy happiness)
2. But as the study looked at people over a long time, they found that people in the lower and middle classes actaully felt happier than upper higher incomes.
How does this work?
1. if you are lower or middle class, then 20% more money can be more easily achieved, so more people then to achieve that goal in the long run, versus
2. With the upper income, 20% is much harder to achieve, so the long run they dont achieve their happiness as often,
3. Hence Carmach may have felt he has reached a level that he doesnt need more money, ie it doesnt make him more happy
anyway thanks for reading
Yes, Its the work on the press's lips because they were afraid that we would end up in another boondoggle when we went after the Taliban, just as we did end up in a boondoggle in vietnam
Thanks!
see, you were making some good points until you came to the Troll part, I take you think anyone who doesnt share your point of view is a troll?
how very sad
Normally I dont responf to AC's but the fallacy in his thinking needs to be pointed out
Windows service packs are released for free
So no need to upgrade just to play
1. Ms has made it quite clear that they wanted people to pay for XP as a subscription model.
2. There is no early reason why they would make the claim that the "value" you get for your subscription money is an up-to-date system which includes bug! The point is that they dont feel that they should continue to their software for free.
3. That means, that You will no longer get service packs for free as these can be viewed as Service Pack upgrade or even a NEW VERSION, the point being that you will need to pay
4. The other point, that MS has back off from, for the time being, is that they want software to be time-limited, which is to say that if you dont pay a subscription fee, then you no longer have the right to use the software, ie, in another words MS has clearly stated they want to change the way people view software from being views as a buy once commidity to something like Cable Tv in which you pay every month, and if you dont pay, you dont Watch, ie you cant play your games on their OS.
Sorry for being so long
hmm, you're right, I didnt make it clear.
What is clear that MS does intend to make the os XP a subscription service, and what I was trying to point out is that right now, that is not the model that game players deal with. They dont continue to pay sony to play their old playstation console. Here, in time, you would have to pay to continue to use XP to allow you continue to play your games.
i hope this is clearer
you know you bring up some interesting points about developing games for windows.
My question becomes would you continue to pay for upgrades to play your games, when the time comes?
Thank!
how good are you at doing end-user interfaces over a medical databse?
Thanks
Ah but, but point is that, I think even MS knows that charing gamers, twice to play (ie one for the OS, which will players will continue to have to pay to use) and the game itself, may start to become a real liability.
however, im not going to dispute the fact windows is the defacto gaming platform, but it starting to build up dis-advantages
Thanks!
This is true, but from an anlysis our group did,
we did find one interesting factor that could actually make make the windows-based platform not viable anymore.
The fact is that up to now, hardware, the OS software and, for the most part, games have been a pay-once/play forever deal.
With XP, this model is trying to be changed, so not only do you have to keep paying to use XP, but you can think of it as an additional cost to playing your games.
If you dont beleive, think about the Xbox. Now where does MS suggest that you will need to pay to continue to use the Xbox(for now), and that is their games development platform, thus they wisely avoided trying to charge gamers for the OS they are playing on, thus I do think that Linux does have a chance of being a gameing platform, but this is not an advantage that linux only shares, because right now, we dont pay for OS's for any gaming platform ( I mean, PS2, gamexube, etc...) we just pay for the games,
So what I am trying to say is the C# really isnt a good choce because the OS it is to written, now comes with more Costs than any other OS.
Thanks!
Having been on the dev-team of a popular MMPOG, I have to say that while your ideas are fundamentally correct, but now is not the time to learn c#, just to add another language to your CV. In addition, C# is too OS limited as it stands and you need to be thinking outside the box.
Thanks
I've been thinking about this for a bit,
Is Neal a bad writer?
well there is evidence to point that is not a bad writer, take fer instance the first chapter of Snow Crash, when he writes about the pizza deliverator. That more than anything else made his reputation and deservedly so,
Now, I will the first to admit that what Neal dosent have, and this may be explained by his almost graphic need to write a academic tome, is the ability to pace. He doesnt really have the ability to explain big things clearly, but then again this is hard to do. I gave as an examply the last chaptors of The diamond Age, clearly what he watned to indicate was large, spontaneously reacting, events but it ends up being read as a bit of mash, it took me several times to read it, because I get the feeling that while Neal knows whats going on, he himslef doesnt quite have a good handle on it.
Another way to think of this is to say, that you can tell if you dont have a good handle on a subject when you see how you explain it to someone else. If you explanation of the idea is muddled, then your grasp on the idea is as well muddled.
Perhaps, what we see is that when neal really has a good grip on a thing (the pizza scence) he writes SF as well, and with as much imagery, as anyone else, but
when he doesnt have a good grasp, he will still plow ahead (and good for him!) into more difficult subjects, but its clear he is still struggling.
anyway thanks
Actually, from reading that and from other interviews, I would imagine him to acutally read slashdot, and occasionally post to explore some thoughts, of course, im sure he has better ways of doing this, but it is not an impossibility, perhaps "astronomicall improbably"
Yes, you're right but what I think the guy was talking about is that also,
you tend to see the most extreme specialization in places where populations are cut off.
Ie, take the galapogos (spelling?) islands where Darwin first got his ideas. He noticed how specialized the birds of these islands had become, in comparison to their main-land brethen. The idea being that given a population that is isolated, certain charactistics can be more easily selected for , instead of having to try to select it out of much bigger population. Of course, the problem with this guy's (the article) opinions is that it does smak of segregation and other asty thoughts, but he should be given a fair consideration
Thanks all!