with only Samsung and TSMC on the leading edge now, it does mean that AMD has one less bargaining chip next time negotiations come around
Weirdest thing would be, AMD contracts with Intel to fab some upcoming GPU. It could happen. Another thing not out of the question: Intel follows AMD and spins off its fabs. Very not out of the question.
Wow, now who got triggered by that? Intel crying uncle on in-house fabs, no so bad, worse could happen.
Intel is having trouble with 7 nm because it's using 4 masks to get there. So, it's really using older tech with many steps to etch smaller w/ these overlays. If you have to run the silicon through the light 4 times in different positions using different patterns, you can get horrible yields as the slightest deviation will either ruin chips or severely impact their performance.
And yet, that is exactly what TSMC is doing (i.e., no EUV) and they are supposedly ramping up volume production, though I would not bet my life on the truth of this. Intel just pushed it ever so slightly too far with about 10% smaller half pitch than TSMC, and it seems, it just didn't work out. BTW, Intel is not having trouble with 7nm because there is no such thing as Intel 7nm.
I haven't seen anything credible beyond 5 nm -- and that wasn't even using silicon as the substrate.
If more developers start skipping the Google Play store, Google could lose control of Android (the control it imposes via the store and Google services) and Android *actually* becomes free open-source. They clearly don't want that.
Obviously not, but in the long run it is inevitable and most probably, Larry and Sergey already understand this. They will continue to rake in the 30% gravy while they can, but they will not make the mistake of trying to defend that windfall margin to the point that it brings in the regulators or the forks.
so why do they take 30% of profit from the apps on the play store then? they should be doing that for free for the reasons you just stated.
Great point, and one not missed by antitrust regulators, particularly in Europe and Asia. Apple needs to worry about this too, and Apple shareholders for that matter.
you really think they aren't butthurt about not being able to take a 30% cut of the profits of one of the world's most popular and profitable games on their platform?
Just because they say it's 7nm doesn't mean it is 7nm
You heard somebody say that, you're not exactly sure what it means but it sounds good, so you reposted it to the internet on the assumption that nobody besides you has ever heard this on the internet.</rant> "Actual" node dimensions, whatever those are, also follow a curve, maybe not exactly the same one as the nominal node name. For example, 7nm half pitch is about 40nm for the 7nm node. (Intel went for 36nm half pitch at its roughly equivalent 10nm node, just a bit too fine, with disastrous results for yield and masking complexity.) You can plot half pitch on a graph over the years and what you see is Moore's law.
Actually, no. There are credible roadmaps already to 3nm, and 1nm is a thing (actual trace pitch several times that). Smaller than that is in research, e.g., check out nanoimprint lithography. Carbon technology is also a thing. Even without these exotics, there is still plenty of Moore's law still to come in standard lithography.
Just to clarify, this is also triple/quad multipatterning (TSMC) vs partial EUV (Samsung). TSMC will likely transition to EUV later in the 7nm node. All eyes should be on trailblazer Samsung to see if EUV is actually economical.
They learned that 7nm is really hard. You have your choice of way too many deep UV multipatterning steps or wacky new EUV technology still not ready for prime time. To get an idea just how not ready, google "EUV pellicles".
It's actually just about economies of scale. The mobile processor ecosystem simply outgrew PC processors. AMD was the first to recognize this, Intel may still be in denial.
with only Samsung and TSMC on the leading edge now, it does mean that AMD has one less bargaining chip next time negotiations come around
Weirdest thing would be, AMD contracts with Intel to fab some upcoming GPU. It could happen. Another thing not out of the question: Intel follows AMD and spins off its fabs. Very not out of the question.
Smart move. There is just too much bleeding edge science and engineering at 7nm, this is a physical reality. Stick with profitable, mature fab tech and iteratively improve it. Get into 7nm when some of the horrible EUV issues have well known solutions, which should carry on to 5nm.
Meanwhile, the big Asian fabs are said to be ramping 7nm production, but as far as I know, nobody has seen actual parts arrive beyond samples. Certainly not enough to have a good idea about yields. Definitely a believe it when you see it situation. Of course, I hope that Samsung and TSMC have actually overtaken Intel at this transition, and given the economics of the situation it seems inevitable, but we do not have proof it has actually happened yet.
The patch downloader had ALREADY been distributed, not *being*
Where did anybody say that the patched downloader had been completely distributed. Oh right, you made that up. You do understand that the more Google apologists spin this pout with their lame deflections, the longer is stays in view and the worse it looks for Google. don't you? Of course you do. Carry on.
Reading comprehension issues? OP wrote "don't get any". Now you are arguing a fallback. Suit yourself, Google still looks like shit over this and you know it.
epic is make billions off this game and they don't get any
Not true. A popular game makes the Android platform more popular, sells more handsets, and enlarge Google's walled garden of services from which it derives advertising income.
Most Slashdot readers also understand that if upstream requests that disclosure be delayed because mitigation procedures are in process, then it is normal to respect such a request.
Almost everybody who has a PC also has a tablet, and a phone. Electronic time is distributed between them, tending more towards the phone all the time. It doesn't separate out into nice tidy categories like in the old days. Phone as laptop replacement is still in its infancy, but it is a thing it is is growing fast. Linux owns that space.
Slashdot Mirror
with only Samsung and TSMC on the leading edge now, it does mean that AMD has one less bargaining chip next time negotiations come around
Weirdest thing would be, AMD contracts with Intel to fab some upcoming GPU. It could happen. Another thing not out of the question: Intel follows AMD and spins off its fabs. Very not out of the question.
Wow, now who got triggered by that? Intel crying uncle on in-house fabs, no so bad, worse could happen.
Intel is having trouble with 7 nm because it's using 4 masks to get there. So, it's really using older tech with many steps to etch smaller w/ these overlays. If you have to run the silicon through the light 4 times in different positions using different patterns, you can get horrible yields as the slightest deviation will either ruin chips or severely impact their performance.
And yet, that is exactly what TSMC is doing (i.e., no EUV) and they are supposedly ramping up volume production, though I would not bet my life on the truth of this. Intel just pushed it ever so slightly too far with about 10% smaller half pitch than TSMC, and it seems, it just didn't work out. BTW, Intel is not having trouble with 7nm because there is no such thing as Intel 7nm.
I haven't seen anything credible beyond 5 nm -- and that wasn't even using silicon as the substrate.
Google "gate all around".
If more developers start skipping the Google Play store, Google could lose control of Android (the control it imposes via the store and Google services) and Android *actually* becomes free open-source. They clearly don't want that.
Obviously not, but in the long run it is inevitable and most probably, Larry and Sergey already understand this. They will continue to rake in the 30% gravy while they can, but they will not make the mistake of trying to defend that windfall margin to the point that it brings in the regulators or the forks.
so why do they take 30% of profit from the apps on the play store then? they should be doing that for free for the reasons you just stated.
Great point, and one not missed by antitrust regulators, particularly in Europe and Asia. Apple needs to worry about this too, and Apple shareholders for that matter.
you really think they aren't butthurt about not being able to take a 30% cut of the profits of one of the world's most popular and profitable games on their platform?
Nice strawman, I did not say any such thing.
Just because they say it's 7nm doesn't mean it is 7nm
You heard somebody say that, you're not exactly sure what it means but it sounds good, so you reposted it to the internet on the assumption that nobody besides you has ever heard this on the internet.</rant> "Actual" node dimensions, whatever those are, also follow a curve, maybe not exactly the same one as the nominal node name. For example, 7nm half pitch is about 40nm for the 7nm node. (Intel went for 36nm half pitch at its roughly equivalent 10nm node, just a bit too fine, with disastrous results for yield and masking complexity.) You can plot half pitch on a graph over the years and what you see is Moore's law.
Plus, they are all hitting the wall.
Actually, no. There are credible roadmaps already to 3nm, and 1nm is a thing (actual trace pitch several times that). Smaller than that is in research, e.g., check out nanoimprint lithography. Carbon technology is also a thing. Even without these exotics, there is still plenty of Moore's law still to come in standard lithography.
Everybody is. Building fab lines around it is another thing, they wisely backed out for the moment.
Just to clarify, this is also triple/quad multipatterning (TSMC) vs partial EUV (Samsung). TSMC will likely transition to EUV later in the 7nm node. All eyes should be on trailblazer Samsung to see if EUV is actually economical.
Did Moore's law just end?
Intel's law ended. For the big asian fabs, density continues to track Moore's law pretty well.
They learned that 7nm is really hard. You have your choice of way too many deep UV multipatterning steps or wacky new EUV technology still not ready for prime time. To get an idea just how not ready, google "EUV pellicles".
It's actually just about economies of scale. The mobile processor ecosystem simply outgrew PC processors. AMD was the first to recognize this, Intel may still be in denial.
with only Samsung and TSMC on the leading edge now, it does mean that AMD has one less bargaining chip next time negotiations come around
Weirdest thing would be, AMD contracts with Intel to fab some upcoming GPU. It could happen. Another thing not out of the question: Intel follows AMD and spins off its fabs. Very not out of the question.
Smart move. There is just too much bleeding edge science and engineering at 7nm, this is a physical reality. Stick with profitable, mature fab tech and iteratively improve it. Get into 7nm when some of the horrible EUV issues have well known solutions, which should carry on to 5nm.
Meanwhile, the big Asian fabs are said to be ramping 7nm production, but as far as I know, nobody has seen actual parts arrive beyond samples. Certainly not enough to have a good idea about yields. Definitely a believe it when you see it situation. Of course, I hope that Samsung and TSMC have actually overtaken Intel at this transition, and given the economics of the situation it seems inevitable, but we do not have proof it has actually happened yet.
So your new fallback argument is "shit is not shit". Nice.
The patch downloader had ALREADY been distributed, not *being*
Where did anybody say that the patched downloader had been completely distributed. Oh right, you made that up. You do understand that the more Google apologists spin this pout with their lame deflections, the longer is stays in view and the worse it looks for Google. don't you? Of course you do. Carry on.
Reading comprehension issues? OP wrote "don't get any". Now you are arguing a fallback. Suit yourself, Google still looks like shit over this and you know it.
Rubbish, a patched downloader was being distributed, this is a mitigation procedure. Weasel word "nearly" does not save your argument.
epic is make billions off this game and they don't get any
Not true. A popular game makes the Android platform more popular, sells more handsets, and enlarge Google's walled garden of services from which it derives advertising income.
Most Slashdot readers also understand that if upstream requests that disclosure be delayed because mitigation procedures are in process, then it is normal to respect such a request.
Google jumped at the chance to punish out of spite, because Epic chose to operate its own store. This is how it looks.
You don't make any sense either. All those content-free posts, what is the point?
Your post makes no sense.
Almost everybody who has a PC also has a tablet, and a phone. Electronic time is distributed between them, tending more towards the phone all the time. It doesn't separate out into nice tidy categories like in the old days. Phone as laptop replacement is still in its infancy, but it is a thing it is is growing fast. Linux owns that space.
geeks would be incapable of making a comedy about themselves
You don't know who Mike Judge is, do you.