Ah, spoiling the open source wet dream again. What a feeling!
When someone audits and publishes a TPC-C run using MySQL that's within 3% of the price/performance leader, I'll eat my left shoe.
I'm platform agnostic myself. Don't care either way. But bigotry for the sake of being a bigot is just stupid.
Re:If MySQL was just a bit more user-friendly...
on
MySQL A Threat to Bigwigs?
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· Score: 3, Informative
MySQL has the power (pretty much) to replace MS-SQL Server.
OMG, you didn't really mean that, did you? Oh, that's so cute...
MySQL is barely ACID compliant, doesn't support triggers or stored procs or views (just for starters), and you say it has the power to replace MSSQL Server?!?!? For goodness sakes, MySQL just NOW has a shared SQL area (query cache). You gotta crawl before you walk, and you gotta walk before you can run with the big boys. MySQL is a very capable database in its own right, but it's still in it's infantcy.
With some of the best replication and datawarehousing functionality on the market and consistently a price/performance leader, I don't think MSSQL Server is going anywhere anytime soon.
You are all delusional if you think for one second that strictly going open-source is going to save TONS of money. And forget the Microsoft Windows argument for one minute.
How many commercial class, open source databases are on the market that can perform and scale and have the REAL support like Oracle or DB2? You think Windows licensing is outrageous???
How many commercial class, open source financial systems are there that provide the functionality of SAP or PeopleSoft? How much do you think these cost?
How much do you think the hardware and support cost for these systems over their expected life costs? Remember, government agencies don't buy for the next 3-5 years. They're buying for the next 15-20 at least. How much do you think an IBM AS/400 plus support costs? Look at the big picture. Nobody in their right mind is gonna run this stuff on some build-it-yourself PC.
I'm all for Linux. Love it. There's NO WAY Microsoft Windows can compete long-term with Linux and the value it provides. *BUT* in terms of moving from Windows to Linux, the savings are a drop in the bucket. Effectively there is none; it's so small in the whole scheme of things.
There's more business and government agencies using open source platforms or derivatives than you think. That's not where the big money goes. It goes to the applications and the hardware. That's just an area that open source cannot and will never compete.
Because there are no liberals left in Texas. We shoot them on sight. We're too busy tending to our oil wells or horses to know any better, or having sex with farm animals, depending on the time of day. It's also compounded by the fact that none of us here made it past the third grade can't say words with more than two syllables.
And we also hate anybody who wears a turban on their head, hence the deep-rooted right-wing conspiracy that got "Dubya" elected just so we can go kill lots of "rag heads". YEEEHAAWWWW!!!!
I'd say more, but I have to go prune my marijuana crop. Or tap some more light sweet crude. Mmmm mmmm!!!!
Its liability in a different sense than just money changing hands when something goes bad.
As a PE, you've demonstrated that you have the competency in your particular field to engineer solutions so as not to endanger people. Signing off on a software design document is not the same thing as signing off and putting your engineer's or land surveyor's seal on your plans. It has nothing to do with project management. Its the same responsibility to society that lawyers (to protect the innocent) and doctors (to heal the sick) have, though admittedly not nearly on the same scale.
Engineers are dealing with catastrophic forces that want to wreck everything they build all the time. Overcoming that is what engineering is really about.
If you build a roadway across a bridge I engineered and it collapses, that's catastrophic. My application not working against your published API is not catastrophic.
Buddy, if you coded in all ones and zeroes all the time, you can call yourself whatever you want!!!;-)
Why can't anyone pin down exactly how software "engineering" differs from programming/coding? All I hear is it's different, or more complex. How so? And why aren't they able to teach it in school?
I can point to exactly why engineering a combustion engine or a roadway is different from building them. That's why there's engineers and why there's fabricators or construction workers. Big difference.
Because EVERY engineering discipline is fundamentally about applying physics in the real world. Hopefully to one's advantage.;-)
Once upon a time, we didn't have electricity either. Or airplanes. That doesn't negate the science and physics require to make those happen.
My dog digs a hole in the ground to keep cool in the summers. That's applying some knowledge (and some science) that solves a particular problem. Trust me when I say she ain't an engineer. It goes beyond that. Most engineering disciplines are not based on current knowledge. They're based on practices and science and concepts that have existed for hundreds of years. Think calculus, Roman aqueducts, pyramids, windmills, dams/dikes, steamboats.
Maybe I wasn't clear about the student thing. I meant, and it wasn't obvious, that I have been to college and went through the mechanical engineering cirriculum. That was over 10 years ago. I'm now an Oracle consultant since I found that ME is not the exciting field I once thought it to be. Here in Texas its all about HVAC. Boring!
In my years as a software consultant, I have managed a great many high-end projects, but project management doesn't make an engineer. That seems to be a recurring theme in these responses. I NEVER learned project management in school. I learned lots of physics and lots of math. I would go so far as to say an engineering degree is a glorified physics/math degree. And thats coming from someone who's been through the process.
I understand that in the process of migrating a financial system, if I lose someone's data, I'm liable for that. Hence, my company carries ~$10 million in professional liability insurance. That's not the professional liability I'm talking about in engineering.
I'm not saying systems developers never get sued. I'm just saying its extremely rare.
As a student of mechanical engineering, I understand that engineering is the *physical* application of physics and real science to a particular problem. This is true of any engineering discipline, be it mechanical, electrical, chemical, civil, hydraulic, whatever. Computer engineering is considered a EE discipline since its focuses on hardware, not software, engineering.
Professional engineers (PE's) must be licensed in their respective states to practice, similiar to a lawyer or doctor having a license to practice. Having a BSxE degree simply won't allow you to sign off and carry the professional liability that goes with building a very expensive highway, electrical subsystem, or water dam. I've never seen a programmer routinely/successfully sued for developing bad code that crashes a lot, but I've seen plenty of engineers lose their practices when structures they've designed collapse. Go read your state's PE licensing requirements and you'll see for yourself.
Are programmers smart? Yes. Do they routinely make use of advanced math, physics, and logic? Yes. Do they put in late hours like a lot of engineers do? Yes. Do that make them an engineer? NO!
Calling oneself a software engineer is simply a fraud and a way to trump up ones own self-importance by riding the coattails of others. Its like "sales engineers"...what the hell is that? That's a way to make a job sound more important than it really is.
BTW, I'm much more the computer programmer type than I will ever be a mechanical engineer. But I will NEVER call myself a "software engineer". There's just no engineering in anything I do.
Slashdot Mirror
Ah, spoiling the open source wet dream again. What a feeling!
When someone audits and publishes a TPC-C run using MySQL that's within 3% of the price/performance leader, I'll eat my left shoe.
I'm platform agnostic myself. Don't care either way. But bigotry for the sake of being a bigot is just stupid.
MySQL has the power (pretty much) to replace MS-SQL Server.
OMG, you didn't really mean that, did you? Oh, that's so cute...
MySQL is barely ACID compliant, doesn't support triggers or stored procs or views (just for starters), and you say it has the power to replace MSSQL Server?!?!? For goodness sakes, MySQL just NOW has a shared SQL area (query cache). You gotta crawl before you walk, and you gotta walk before you can run with the big boys. MySQL is a very capable database in its own right, but it's still in it's infantcy.
With some of the best replication and datawarehousing functionality on the market and consistently a price/performance leader, I don't think MSSQL Server is going anywhere anytime soon.
Unfortunately, this is the "openness" of the open source movement: Disagree, get silenced.
No soup for you!!!
How much of a self-respecting Texan are you????
Jesus H. Christ, man!!! You forgot the beer!!!!!!
mitcharoni = Proud Texan/BBQ Fanatic
You are all delusional if you think for one second that strictly going open-source is going to save TONS of money. And forget the Microsoft Windows argument for one minute.
;-)
How many commercial class, open source databases are on the market that can perform and scale and have the REAL support like Oracle or DB2? You think Windows licensing is outrageous???
How many commercial class, open source financial systems are there that provide the functionality of SAP or PeopleSoft? How much do you think these cost?
How much do you think the hardware and support cost for these systems over their expected life costs? Remember, government agencies don't buy for the next 3-5 years. They're buying for the next 15-20 at least. How much do you think an IBM AS/400 plus support costs? Look at the big picture. Nobody in their right mind is gonna run this stuff on some build-it-yourself PC.
I'm all for Linux. Love it. There's NO WAY Microsoft Windows can compete long-term with Linux and the value it provides. *BUT* in terms of moving from Windows to Linux, the savings are a drop in the bucket. Effectively there is none; it's so small in the whole scheme of things.
There's more business and government agencies using open source platforms or derivatives than you think. That's not where the big money goes. It goes to the applications and the hardware. That's just an area that open source cannot and will never compete.
Wake up and smell the fajitas!!!
Because there are no liberals left in Texas. We shoot them on sight. We're too busy tending to our oil wells or horses to know any better, or having sex with farm animals, depending on the time of day. It's also compounded by the fact that none of us here made it past the third grade can't say words with more than two syllables.
And we also hate anybody who wears a turban on their head, hence the deep-rooted right-wing conspiracy that got "Dubya" elected just so we can go kill lots of "rag heads". YEEEHAAWWWW!!!!
I'd say more, but I have to go prune my marijuana crop. Or tap some more light sweet crude. Mmmm mmmm!!!!
WILLIE NELSON FOR PRESIDENT! REMEMBER THE ALAMO!
Ignorant retard.
Its liability in a different sense than just money changing hands when something goes bad.
;-)
As a PE, you've demonstrated that you have the competency in your particular field to engineer solutions so as not to endanger people. Signing off on a software design document is not the same thing as signing off and putting your engineer's or land surveyor's seal on your plans. It has nothing to do with project management. Its the same responsibility to society that lawyers (to protect the innocent) and doctors (to heal the sick) have, though admittedly not nearly on the same scale.
Engineers are dealing with catastrophic forces that want to wreck everything they build all the time. Overcoming that is what engineering is really about.
If you build a roadway across a bridge I engineered and it collapses, that's catastrophic. My application not working against your published API is not catastrophic.
Maybe I explained it, maybe not.
Buddy, if you coded in all ones and zeroes all the time, you can call yourself whatever you want!!! ;-)
Why can't anyone pin down exactly how software "engineering" differs from programming/coding? All I hear is it's different, or more complex. How so? And why aren't they able to teach it in school?
I can point to exactly why engineering a combustion engine or a roadway is different from building them. That's why there's engineers and why there's fabricators or construction workers. Big difference.
Because EVERY engineering discipline is fundamentally about applying physics in the real world. Hopefully to one's advantage. ;-)
Once upon a time, we didn't have electricity either. Or airplanes. That doesn't negate the science and physics require to make those happen.
My dog digs a hole in the ground to keep cool in the summers. That's applying some knowledge (and some science) that solves a particular problem. Trust me when I say she ain't an engineer. It goes beyond that. Most engineering disciplines are not based on current knowledge. They're based on practices and science and concepts that have existed for hundreds of years. Think calculus, Roman aqueducts, pyramids, windmills, dams/dikes, steamboats.
Maybe I wasn't clear about the student thing. I meant, and it wasn't obvious, that I have been to college and went through the mechanical engineering cirriculum. That was over 10 years ago. I'm now an Oracle consultant since I found that ME is not the exciting field I once thought it to be. Here in Texas its all about HVAC. Boring!
In my years as a software consultant, I have managed a great many high-end projects, but project management doesn't make an engineer. That seems to be a recurring theme in these responses. I NEVER learned project management in school. I learned lots of physics and lots of math. I would go so far as to say an engineering degree is a glorified physics/math degree. And thats coming from someone who's been through the process.
I understand that in the process of migrating a financial system, if I lose someone's data, I'm liable for that. Hence, my company carries ~$10 million in professional liability insurance. That's not the professional liability I'm talking about in engineering.
I'm not saying systems developers never get sued. I'm just saying its extremely rare.
A tribute to engineers? More like identity theft. ;-)
This is my bone to pick:
As a student of mechanical engineering, I understand that engineering is the *physical* application of physics and real science to a particular problem. This is true of any engineering discipline, be it mechanical, electrical, chemical, civil, hydraulic, whatever. Computer engineering is considered a EE discipline since its focuses on hardware, not software, engineering.
Professional engineers (PE's) must be licensed in their respective states to practice, similiar to a lawyer or doctor having a license to practice. Having a BSxE degree simply won't allow you to sign off and carry the professional liability that goes with building a very expensive highway, electrical subsystem, or water dam. I've never seen a programmer routinely/successfully sued for developing bad code that crashes a lot, but I've seen plenty of engineers lose their practices when structures they've designed collapse. Go read your state's PE licensing requirements and you'll see for yourself.
Are programmers smart? Yes. Do they routinely make use of advanced math, physics, and logic? Yes. Do they put in late hours like a lot of engineers do? Yes. Do that make them an engineer? NO!
Calling oneself a software engineer is simply a fraud and a way to trump up ones own self-importance by riding the coattails of others. Its like "sales engineers"...what the hell is that? That's a way to make a job sound more important than it really is.
BTW, I'm much more the computer programmer type than I will ever be a mechanical engineer. But I will NEVER call myself a "software engineer". There's just no engineering in anything I do.