We don't have enough automation to implement universal welfare at this time. The majority of people still need to work in order to produce enough to sustain society.
Re:Out of jobs? (Score:?)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 29, 2013 @08:07PM
Minimum wage jobs are not just for teenagers. There just are not enough teenagers to man every grocery store, every restaurant, every retail outlet, etc. Millions of people are attempting to support families on minimum or barely above minimum wage jobs. These people need to be able to support their families just like anyone else.
The only other option to a reasonable minimum wage is a guaranteed minimum income. And we don't have nearly enough automation to deal with the people who would simply choose not to work given the the option.
Technology only destroys jobs if you accept that the vast majority of the improvement in quality of life resulting from less labor required for survival should be reserved for a handful of plutocrats. Employment is low. Profits are high. Fewer people work more to get less out of fear that they will be cut next.
What technology can do is increase everyone's quality of life. Lower the work week to 32 hours and abolish the distinction between part time and full time employees and increase minimum wage to a scale that follows the cost of basic food, utilities, shelter and transportation (it would be around $18 an hour if it had been). More people working less and having more time for family or other hobbies that actually make life worth living.
We could live well forever, the clock would not be ticking as you put it. I am talking about a permanent population. We have no need to use non-renewable materials. We could power all of North America with a solar thermal power system covering a square less than 100 miles on side. Make it a little bigger and we can turn sea water into fresh water and refill the Ogallala aquifer. Put a similar one on each continent and completely end the worlds reliance on fossil fuels. This requires no new technology.
We get rid of the greedy apes as soon as people stop buying into the idea that we are overpopulated. The markets work to their advantage based on the idea of artificial scarcity, because it is exactly that... artificial. Once people realize that, then you can smash their little monkey skulls and start building the future.
Just because a republic claims to care a lot about the economy doesn't mean they do. If that were the case, they would be championing a balanced budget through higher and more progressive personal income and capital gains taxes while reducing corporate taxes and nationalizing healthcare. You know, exactly the opposite of what they actually do. Republican tax policies have been shown scientifically to be quite harmful to economies, but it doesn't matter because fuck the future of America and even the long term survival of mankind, I need a new BMW right now.
Overpopulation does not occur when you have more than "enough", it occurs when you have to many.
And the 7 odd billion people we have now are not to many. Every one of us could live a western lifestyle if we used our existing technology reasonably. That means building a metric crap ton of solar energy plants in the desert. That means removing sequestered fossil fuels as our transportation energy source. That means building an effective global power and communications grid. None of these things are beyond our reach. We have more than enough wealth, material and labor available. What we really need is power and we can get that from simple sunlight.
Then you look at the socio-economic trends of the western civilization, and your overpopulation problem naturally evaporates as birthrates decline. The population will plateau, it already is in most of the developed world.
I am not suggesting we should. But we can build up and down. We don't really need to spread out that much until we are well on our way into the 10s of billions. The point I am making is that we are a long long way from being genuinely overpopulated if we actually used our technology.
how is sharia based on science and reason? Apostasy and Heresy are punishable by death under sharia, where they should be rewarded and encouraged under a scientific and reasonable system of law.
Science does not remove belief. It removes the baselessness of belief. Belief in that which is proven is viable under science. Belief in that which is disproved is not. There are shades of grey in between those two absolutes.
To get metaphorical, belief is tempered by the flame of science. The ephemeral wisps of faith are burned away, leaving behind a purer stronger truth.
Not really. Earth can easily sustain 10 to 14 billion humans with a good use of technology. That could go into the hundreds of billions if we could accept getting our protein from algae vats.
They have lots of al queda members in their ranks because Iran is a foreign interventionist power willing to lend aid and support to the rebels. If we had been there to support the rebels from the beginning, there would be far fewer of them.
Unfortunately, it is now to late to intervene and get a good outcome. We squandered the chance early on.
I for one prefer a woman who has at least a 1/3 hobby overlap... but less than a 2/3 hobby overlap. I do want to occasionally be able to get out and have fun away from the significant other without excluding her from something she would rather be doing with me.
When is there going to be an Iphone with a slide out full qwerty keyboard? I want to be able to type out a text/email/forum post on my pocket computer without worrying about auto-correct talking about penis's on accident.
Slashdot Mirror
Unregulated capitalism doesn't work in the long run at all.
I am describing a sustainable economy that allows capitalism to flourish through careful regulation.
We don't have enough automation to implement universal welfare at this time. The majority of people still need to work in order to produce enough to sustain society.
Re:Out of jobs? (Score:?)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 29, 2013 @08:07PM
Minimum wage jobs are not just for teenagers. There just are not enough teenagers to man every grocery store, every restaurant, every retail outlet, etc. Millions of people are attempting to support families on minimum or barely above minimum wage jobs. These people need to be able to support their families just like anyone else.
The only other option to a reasonable minimum wage is a guaranteed minimum income. And we don't have nearly enough automation to deal with the people who would simply choose not to work given the the option.
Technology only destroys jobs if you accept that the vast majority of the improvement in quality of life resulting from less labor required for survival should be reserved for a handful of plutocrats. Employment is low. Profits are high. Fewer people work more to get less out of fear that they will be cut next.
What technology can do is increase everyone's quality of life. Lower the work week to 32 hours and abolish the distinction between part time and full time employees and increase minimum wage to a scale that follows the cost of basic food, utilities, shelter and transportation (it would be around $18 an hour if it had been). More people working less and having more time for family or other hobbies that actually make life worth living.
In other news, traffic reporters held liable for distracting drivers on busy roads.
And then go shoot some sectoids!
We could live well forever, the clock would not be ticking as you put it. I am talking about a permanent population. We have no need to use non-renewable materials. We could power all of North America with a solar thermal power system covering a square less than 100 miles on side. Make it a little bigger and we can turn sea water into fresh water and refill the Ogallala aquifer. Put a similar one on each continent and completely end the worlds reliance on fossil fuels. This requires no new technology.
We get rid of the greedy apes as soon as people stop buying into the idea that we are overpopulated. The markets work to their advantage based on the idea of artificial scarcity, because it is exactly that... artificial. Once people realize that, then you can smash their little monkey skulls and start building the future.
Just because a republic claims to care a lot about the economy doesn't mean they do. If that were the case, they would be championing a balanced budget through higher and more progressive personal income and capital gains taxes while reducing corporate taxes and nationalizing healthcare. You know, exactly the opposite of what they actually do. Republican tax policies have been shown scientifically to be quite harmful to economies, but it doesn't matter because fuck the future of America and even the long term survival of mankind, I need a new BMW right now.
That is the wrong question.
There is no amount of people I consider "enough".
Overpopulation does not occur when you have more than "enough", it occurs when you have to many.
And the 7 odd billion people we have now are not to many. Every one of us could live a western lifestyle if we used our existing technology reasonably. That means building a metric crap ton of solar energy plants in the desert. That means removing sequestered fossil fuels as our transportation energy source. That means building an effective global power and communications grid. None of these things are beyond our reach. We have more than enough wealth, material and labor available. What we really need is power and we can get that from simple sunlight.
Then you look at the socio-economic trends of the western civilization, and your overpopulation problem naturally evaporates as birthrates decline. The population will plateau, it already is in most of the developed world.
Most likely? All the stupid people who accept religion just because would accept atheism just because.
I am not suggesting we should. But we can build up and down. We don't really need to spread out that much until we are well on our way into the 10s of billions. The point I am making is that we are a long long way from being genuinely overpopulated if we actually used our technology.
There is a correlation between atheism and intelligence. But there are still plenty of idiotic atheists out there.
how is sharia based on science and reason? Apostasy and Heresy are punishable by death under sharia, where they should be rewarded and encouraged under a scientific and reasonable system of law.
And this confirms you can not really spell Nazi.
Science does not remove belief. It removes the baselessness of belief. Belief in that which is proven is viable under science. Belief in that which is disproved is not. There are shades of grey in between those two absolutes.
To get metaphorical, belief is tempered by the flame of science. The ephemeral wisps of faith are burned away, leaving behind a purer stronger truth.
Not really. Earth can easily sustain 10 to 14 billion humans with a good use of technology. That could go into the hundreds of billions if we could accept getting our protein from algae vats.
To a certain degree it is. Your genes will not survive in the long run if your species does not.
funny, I wish more republicans thought about science.
Democrats too, but they are only quasi-evil.
Yea, those outliers are much hotter.
He/she/whatever was the one responsible for the disclosure and confirmation of much of that government corruption.
Granted, that doesn't mean it is FULL responsibility, but the line of cause and effect is there. It greatly contributed to it.
They have lots of al queda members in their ranks because Iran is a foreign interventionist power willing to lend aid and support to the rebels. If we had been there to support the rebels from the beginning, there would be far fewer of them.
Unfortunately, it is now to late to intervene and get a good outcome. We squandered the chance early on.
I doubt it. The Arab spring was kicked off in Tunisia by the Manning wikileaks.
Yea... no. The house is diving head first off an entirely different cliff.
I for one prefer a woman who has at least a 1/3 hobby overlap... but less than a 2/3 hobby overlap. I do want to occasionally be able to get out and have fun away from the significant other without excluding her from something she would rather be doing with me.
When is there going to be an Iphone with a slide out full qwerty keyboard? I want to be able to type out a text/email/forum post on my pocket computer without worrying about auto-correct talking about penis's on accident.