And I suppose video games turn people into monsters?
The ideas don't turn people into monsters the resentment, discontent, and their own mental instability does that. There are millions of kids who play Nazi during a rebellious phase in school for shock value. And apparently they don't come along very often, despite how often people talk about all this hate crime in the US I went digging for statistics and the actual number of people harmed and killed across several years were single digits and in almost all cases they were gang related crime that has more to do with racism in prisons than anything else.
Of course, you have to expend extra effort to get things like handing out pamphlets, a peaceful rally, and school children wearing some article of clothing or drawing something in the snow out of your 'hate crimes' numbers. The fact someone includes those in the first place suggests there is a very serious attempt at political manipulation going on.
"It's up to you to inform yourself about what you believe and why you believe it"
Exactly, and you are denied that opportunity when denied the ability to find and either agree or disagree with the views of others. Facebook is not a megaphone, this information isn't broadcast, it is sought and every user has the freedom to censor.
"not misinforming people or stirring unrest by hate speech, aka "yelling fire in a theater""
Those things have nothing to do with each other. As you said, it is up to you to inform yourself and apply critical thinking. No think party is entitled to decide for you what is valid information or to select who will decide that for you. And nothing should be censored on the basis of stirring unrest. Sometimes unrest is a good thing. Or do you think the Americans, British, and French should still be under monarchies?
Human beings are not passive entities. The blame for those who listen to hate speech and/or are incited to violence lays with the fool who hates and violent psychopath not the person making an inflammatory statement. Yelling fire in a threater isn't an example of speech per say, it isn't the expression of ideas, rationale, and opinions. Yelling fire in a theater is an often abused example of breaking a simple safety protocol, it less a good example of when to restrict speech or more an example of when you can use vocal cords to pull the fire handle.
"Do people generally do historical research on Facebook now?"
They might. Why not? You don't think a high school kid or historian might post something about what they are looking at lately? We are talking about a hypothetical here. I don't spend a lot of time researching these subjects anymore or really since Facebook has been a thing so I couldn't say but people who claim they do pointed out the discrepancy without being inflammatory.
A young school kid trying to understand history is an academic. The term is not merely for university professor. Anyone who is engaging in scholarly pursuit. History in general is merely academic or scholarly rather than practical therefore anyone studying it is a scholar or academic. I suppose some might try to throw the doomed to repeat it line but actual historians tend to hate that claim, history never repeats, there may be similarities but the world is very complex and small differences result in very different outcomes.
See 1.3. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/academic
Indeed and he is correct in that but it is a tangent from the content of my post and he was unnecessarily inflammatory in pointing out a simple clarification of that idea.
He could have just said "Agreed. But not everyone who looks for this information is a nazi or klan member. It is also sought out by any looking for information on the topic"
Although that could just as easily be an argument FOR censorship since they will find false information from Nazi and Klan groups when searching without censoring those ideas.
Agreed, entirely and my "scum" remark wasn't targeted at WW2 academics. It was even too broad otherwise. The groups and ideologies are scum. The actual humans are misguided and ignorant and classifying them unilaterally as "scum" because of disdain for the ideas they currently hold and the way those ideas get associated with me when I try to defend myself against racism is wrong.
There is no shortage of rational reasoning and logic that could change the minds of individuals in these groups and in some cases just growing up does that but no divide has ever been crossed by applying disparaging labels across a large group of individual human beings and classing them as sub-human, not even other people doing that very thing.
A company is nothing but a collaboration of people. A collective of corporations is effectively one giant entity with regard to the impact is has on the market. This is true without regard to any policies on the law books.
Nazi's? Who cares about the Nazi's, I'm talking about people who believe that ideas should be freely expressed and debated without censorship in the light of day. Anyone who believes in free speech. Free speech isn't something we should only support when we like what is being said.
I support human beings and ideas. The more diversity of ideas, ideology, and people the better. We should not beat any ideas into hiding and the shadows but instead face them in the light of day and air them to logical scrutiny.
Censorship ends up keeping these ideas alive because there is little to no opportunity to debunk, debate, or reason with someone reading an underground pamphlet. For those, rightfully, distrustful of authority and the pleas to authority fallacy arguments that go with it the fact those who keep them down try to drive something into the shadows lends it a perception of credibility.
Racism is ignorant and irrational, race isn't even an objectively defined thing. Neo-nazi's operate on a blend of false science and outdated and debunked science and promote an idea of exclusion and violence. The people who fall it aren't automatically scum true, people are duped into stupid and irrational ideas all the time even good and intelligent people. There are no shortage of lies and propaganda being spread about neo-nazi's including the idea that they regularly engage in all sorts of hate motivated violence but their platform does still support those ideas and it doesn't just support a pro-white narrative, it supports an anti-everyone else narrative.
I happen to have white skin and if I oppose a measure that unfairly discriminates against me I get associated with all the historical baggage and evils perpetuated by the ideas of groups like Nazi's and the KKK. I should be able to oppose measures that would give a random non-white skin color child an advantage over my own or be proud of my heritage publicly in a fair and logical forum but I can't because these groups are the big ugly strawmen I get lumped in with.
Nobody does more to damage to "white people" than neo-nazi's, Klan, and confederate supporters because every time we try to defend ourselves against another racist policy targeting us we get compared to them. Every time we start a movement, those groups will support it and make it look shameful and dirty.
"Facebook is a privately-run platform, not a government-run platform. Abide by the TOS or get tossed, simple as that."
And if all technology companies apply similar restrictions barring free speech contrary to our national values it becomes a monopoly issue. Also, if they do so and it is possible we should toss them, simple as that. Fortunately, facebook really doesn't offer anything that can't be easily replicated with a low investment.
Right, we should pay a professional everytime we need a simple bot for a game or excel macro. Perhaps we all need professionals to keep our checkbooks or perform any math.
Or everyone can have some basic coding skill, a math and logic skill on par with basic Algebra and be able to perform coding tasks on par with changing a light bulb or doing basic day-to-day home maintenance. And if you can't handle that level of coding, your merit is burger flipper at best and that is the only job you should get.
No, his posting history indicates this is exactly what he is. He posts irrationally supportive responses including information ranging from misleading to outright false. It's called propaganda.
"Anyone actually living in China can tell you that the country has been trying hard, really hard, to pop UP their currency, e.g. by restricting the annual maximum of foreign currency an individual can *send out* of China."
That increases the value of their currency in reality, it does nothing for how they value their currency on international exchanges. When they start restricting the maximum amount of currency coming IN, value their currency appropriately on the foreign exchange, and start putting heavy tariffs on exports I'll start recognizing and applaud their efforts.
"If a manufacturer doesn't know how to make the product, how can it start manufacturing for you?"
You can't. That is a problem for the US how? But more than that, you can order a product to be made in China and watch your product appear sold by a chinese vendor on Alibaba within weeks. That is theft. In the case of software Chinese companies have horrendous records for contributing back to open source technologies. Regardless of whether you are technically acting legally or not there is such a thing as ethics, integrity, and self-respect. Design your own new technologies we haven't thought of yet and enrich the world. And yes, they steal our manufacturing technology, the minute the first chinese factory opened using modern US manufacturing techniques that wasn't owned by a US company that happened. You let our people train personal and learned how we worked and then copied it but you don't improve and give anything back, if anything you just cut corners.
"Bottom line: walk away and give up the market or lower labor cost if you don't like the deal, China did not put a gun at your head, blame your own (or the top 1% Americans') greediness"
Sounds good. Were you under the impression someone (sane, not weird trolls on slashdot) actually blames the actual people of China? Opposing our trade with China isn't really about hurting China, it's about helping us. It isn't about finding someone to blame. There is no reason for specific ill will toward China and any of that is just justification for taking the corrective actions we need to on the global stage.
Currently the scale is tilted toward China and it is tilted that way largely through technology and advancement they gained from the US. Instead of showing gratitude and using that gift to come to the table as a friend and partner China is trying to steal our spot at the head of the table. I'm not saying China should never earn the head spot but I am saying China should never earn the head spot by simply taking our technology and exploiting their massive labor pool and poor labor practices.
Indeed, I'm sure it does to someone who lacks ingenuity, drive, capacity, and ability. Make no mistake, I'm not one of those who equates wealth to merit.
They are certainly a more likely investment. Of course, in a way we might be worse off rewarding those with merit. Those who don't do as well tend to breed more. Those who do well try not have children they can't afford.
The reason to learn to code isn't to become a programmer professionally it's because coding and understanding how code works is valuable for most any profession. Being able to code is like being able to use office these days. In fact, advanced excel users already code.
These aren't mine, they were posted elsewhere. We also had a story about their bonus program for employees who steal trade secrets based on how sensitive what they've stolen is.
The EU isn't one country but that aside it wouldn't be wise for the EU to slip into the top spot even if they could. The thing about being number one is that it makes you a fat and ripe target and the EU is low hanging fruit. The US, China, and Russia can swoop in pretty much anytime and scoop it up. Hell the US already conquered it once, it was just held by the Germans at the time and they kindly gave it back to the people the Germans took it from. The US is much stronger now than then and China and Russia are definitely stronger.
First of all that number was drastically lower in 2018, closer to 30%. Secondly, with more than 60% of wealth, it is less than their share.
The bigger issue is that the top 2-9% pay 30% and are solidly in the working class. A fair portion of the 1% are working class as well, very successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Using percentages for these things is misleading. Nobody is targeting an upper middle class engineer making 250k/year. We are talking about people dodging taxes on millions to billions of dollars on tax gains.
Slashdot Mirror
And I suppose video games turn people into monsters?
The ideas don't turn people into monsters the resentment, discontent, and their own mental instability does that. There are millions of kids who play Nazi during a rebellious phase in school for shock value. And apparently they don't come along very often, despite how often people talk about all this hate crime in the US I went digging for statistics and the actual number of people harmed and killed across several years were single digits and in almost all cases they were gang related crime that has more to do with racism in prisons than anything else.
Of course, you have to expend extra effort to get things like handing out pamphlets, a peaceful rally, and school children wearing some article of clothing or drawing something in the snow out of your 'hate crimes' numbers. The fact someone includes those in the first place suggests there is a very serious attempt at political manipulation going on.
"It's up to you to inform yourself about what you believe and why you believe it"
Exactly, and you are denied that opportunity when denied the ability to find and either agree or disagree with the views of others. Facebook is not a megaphone, this information isn't broadcast, it is sought and every user has the freedom to censor.
"not misinforming people or stirring unrest by hate speech, aka "yelling fire in a theater""
Those things have nothing to do with each other. As you said, it is up to you to inform yourself and apply critical thinking. No think party is entitled to decide for you what is valid information or to select who will decide that for you. And nothing should be censored on the basis of stirring unrest. Sometimes unrest is a good thing. Or do you think the Americans, British, and French should still be under monarchies?
Human beings are not passive entities. The blame for those who listen to hate speech and/or are incited to violence lays with the fool who hates and violent psychopath not the person making an inflammatory statement. Yelling fire in a threater isn't an example of speech per say, it isn't the expression of ideas, rationale, and opinions. Yelling fire in a theater is an often abused example of breaking a simple safety protocol, it less a good example of when to restrict speech or more an example of when you can use vocal cords to pull the fire handle.
"Do people generally do historical research on Facebook now?"
They might. Why not? You don't think a high school kid or historian might post something about what they are looking at lately? We are talking about a hypothetical here. I don't spend a lot of time researching these subjects anymore or really since Facebook has been a thing so I couldn't say but people who claim they do pointed out the discrepancy without being inflammatory.
A young school kid trying to understand history is an academic. The term is not merely for university professor. Anyone who is engaging in scholarly pursuit. History in general is merely academic or scholarly rather than practical therefore anyone studying it is a scholar or academic. I suppose some might try to throw the doomed to repeat it line but actual historians tend to hate that claim, history never repeats, there may be similarities but the world is very complex and small differences result in very different outcomes.
See 1.3.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/academic
Indeed and he is correct in that but it is a tangent from the content of my post and he was unnecessarily inflammatory in pointing out a simple clarification of that idea.
He could have just said "Agreed. But not everyone who looks for this information is a nazi or klan member. It is also sought out by any looking for information on the topic"
Although that could just as easily be an argument FOR censorship since they will find false information from Nazi and Klan groups when searching without censoring those ideas.
"Sad that you label everyone interested in WW2 history as "scum"."
No, that was simply ambiguity in my writing. It is sad that you feel the need to be so hostile and inflammatory in pointing it out.
Agreed, entirely and my "scum" remark wasn't targeted at WW2 academics. It was even too broad otherwise. The groups and ideologies are scum. The actual humans are misguided and ignorant and classifying them unilaterally as "scum" because of disdain for the ideas they currently hold and the way those ideas get associated with me when I try to defend myself against racism is wrong.
There is no shortage of rational reasoning and logic that could change the minds of individuals in these groups and in some cases just growing up does that but no divide has ever been crossed by applying disparaging labels across a large group of individual human beings and classing them as sub-human, not even other people doing that very thing.
A company is nothing but a collaboration of people. A collective of corporations is effectively one giant entity with regard to the impact is has on the market. This is true without regard to any policies on the law books.
Nazi's? Who cares about the Nazi's, I'm talking about people who believe that ideas should be freely expressed and debated without censorship in the light of day. Anyone who believes in free speech. Free speech isn't something we should only support when we like what is being said.
I support human beings and ideas. The more diversity of ideas, ideology, and people the better. We should not beat any ideas into hiding and the shadows but instead face them in the light of day and air them to logical scrutiny.
Censorship ends up keeping these ideas alive because there is little to no opportunity to debunk, debate, or reason with someone reading an underground pamphlet. For those, rightfully, distrustful of authority and the pleas to authority fallacy arguments that go with it the fact those who keep them down try to drive something into the shadows lends it a perception of credibility.
Racism is ignorant and irrational, race isn't even an objectively defined thing. Neo-nazi's operate on a blend of false science and outdated and debunked science and promote an idea of exclusion and violence. The people who fall it aren't automatically scum true, people are duped into stupid and irrational ideas all the time even good and intelligent people. There are no shortage of lies and propaganda being spread about neo-nazi's including the idea that they regularly engage in all sorts of hate motivated violence but their platform does still support those ideas and it doesn't just support a pro-white narrative, it supports an anti-everyone else narrative.
I happen to have white skin and if I oppose a measure that unfairly discriminates against me I get associated with all the historical baggage and evils perpetuated by the ideas of groups like Nazi's and the KKK. I should be able to oppose measures that would give a random non-white skin color child an advantage over my own or be proud of my heritage publicly in a fair and logical forum but I can't because these groups are the big ugly strawmen I get lumped in with.
Nobody does more to damage to "white people" than neo-nazi's, Klan, and confederate supporters because every time we try to defend ourselves against another racist policy targeting us we get compared to them. Every time we start a movement, those groups will support it and make it look shameful and dirty.
"Facebook is a privately-run platform, not a government-run platform. Abide by the TOS or get tossed, simple as that."
And if all technology companies apply similar restrictions barring free speech contrary to our national values it becomes a monopoly issue. Also, if they do so and it is possible we should toss them, simple as that. Fortunately, facebook really doesn't offer anything that can't be easily replicated with a low investment.
I support freedom of speech, even for scum like this.
Right, we should pay a professional everytime we need a simple bot for a game or excel macro. Perhaps we all need professionals to keep our checkbooks or perform any math.
Or everyone can have some basic coding skill, a math and logic skill on par with basic Algebra and be able to perform coding tasks on par with changing a light bulb or doing basic day-to-day home maintenance. And if you can't handle that level of coding, your merit is burger flipper at best and that is the only job you should get.
"Personal attack is a sign of paranoia"
No, his posting history indicates this is exactly what he is. He posts irrationally supportive responses including information ranging from misleading to outright false. It's called propaganda.
"Anyone actually living in China can tell you that the country has been trying hard, really hard, to pop UP their currency, e.g. by restricting the annual maximum of foreign currency an individual can *send out* of China."
That increases the value of their currency in reality, it does nothing for how they value their currency on international exchanges. When they start restricting the maximum amount of currency coming IN, value their currency appropriately on the foreign exchange, and start putting heavy tariffs on exports I'll start recognizing and applaud their efforts.
"If a manufacturer doesn't know how to make the product, how can it start manufacturing for you?"
You can't. That is a problem for the US how? But more than that, you can order a product to be made in China and watch your product appear sold by a chinese vendor on Alibaba within weeks. That is theft. In the case of software Chinese companies have horrendous records for contributing back to open source technologies. Regardless of whether you are technically acting legally or not there is such a thing as ethics, integrity, and self-respect. Design your own new technologies we haven't thought of yet and enrich the world. And yes, they steal our manufacturing technology, the minute the first chinese factory opened using modern US manufacturing techniques that wasn't owned by a US company that happened. You let our people train personal and learned how we worked and then copied it but you don't improve and give anything back, if anything you just cut corners.
"Bottom line: walk away and give up the market or lower labor cost if you don't like the deal, China did not put a gun at your head, blame your own (or the top 1% Americans') greediness"
Sounds good. Were you under the impression someone (sane, not weird trolls on slashdot) actually blames the actual people of China? Opposing our trade with China isn't really about hurting China, it's about helping us. It isn't about finding someone to blame. There is no reason for specific ill will toward China and any of that is just justification for taking the corrective actions we need to on the global stage.
Currently the scale is tilted toward China and it is tilted that way largely through technology and advancement they gained from the US. Instead of showing gratitude and using that gift to come to the table as a friend and partner China is trying to steal our spot at the head of the table. I'm not saying China should never earn the head spot but I am saying China should never earn the head spot by simply taking our technology and exploiting their massive labor pool and poor labor practices.
Indeed, I'm sure it does to someone who lacks ingenuity, drive, capacity, and ability. Make no mistake, I'm not one of those who equates wealth to merit.
They are certainly a more likely investment. Of course, in a way we might be worse off rewarding those with merit. Those who don't do as well tend to breed more. Those who do well try not have children they can't afford.
The reason to learn to code isn't to become a programmer professionally it's because coding and understanding how code works is valuable for most any profession. Being able to code is like being able to use office these days. In fact, advanced excel users already code.
The folks who actually exhibit merit without special advantage for any alleged privileged or unprivileged group.
Hopefully they gave zero consideration to any of those things so the courses won't discriminate.
Oh really? When was the last time you were slowly roasted to death? Which individual who suffered both did you ask?
These aren't mine, they were posted elsewhere. We also had a story about their bonus program for employees who steal trade secrets based on how sensitive what they've stolen is.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/12/12/three-hong-kong-passports-arrested-huawei-exec-meng-wanzhou-revealed-canadian-court/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/07/meng-wanzhou-huawei-cfo-court-bail-fraud-sanctions-breach-canada
https://www.businessinsider.com/second-huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-on-suspicion-of-china-spying-2019-1
https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2177512/huawei-and-skycom-firm-accused-breaching-us-sanctions-shared-web
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech/huawei-units-to-be-arraigned-on-u-s-criminal-charges-on-feb-28-idUSKCN1PN2WP
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/third-canadian-detained-in-china-following-arrest-of-huawei-exec-2018-12-19
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurherman/2018/12/10/huaweis-and-chinas-dangerous-high-tech-game/
The EU isn't one country but that aside it wouldn't be wise for the EU to slip into the top spot even if they could. The thing about being number one is that it makes you a fat and ripe target and the EU is low hanging fruit. The US, China, and Russia can swoop in pretty much anytime and scoop it up. Hell the US already conquered it once, it was just held by the Germans at the time and they kindly gave it back to the people the Germans took it from. The US is much stronger now than then and China and Russia are definitely stronger.
First of all that number was drastically lower in 2018, closer to 30%. Secondly, with more than 60% of wealth, it is less than their share.
The bigger issue is that the top 2-9% pay 30% and are solidly in the working class. A fair portion of the 1% are working class as well, very successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Using percentages for these things is misleading. Nobody is targeting an upper middle class engineer making 250k/year. We are talking about people dodging taxes on millions to billions of dollars on tax gains.