Happened to me but only selectively. I tend to slightly over salt chicken/turkey soup. I still know where the salt level should be and will salt the pot appropriately but I always add more to my own bowl because I grew up eating Campbells canned chicken soup as a kid.
"As part of the announcement, the companies said they will be expanding Project Tiger, a joint initiative they launched in 2017 to increase the number of articles in underrepresented languages in India. They intend to provide editors with resources and insights to create new Wikipedia articles across 10 languages in India, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region."
That's a poor example. First you make cable and streaming companies pay them out of their cut. Second, local weathermen don't even really need to exist anymore.
"For every competent self-taught applicant you get, you will get 10 incompetent self-taught applicants. Requiring a degree greatly reduces the number of people overall who will apply."
That isn't the issue, the issue is that your rate of diamonds doesn't go up with the degree requirement. In fact is generally goes down. The methods of learning found in a classroom that people with degrees have gotten used to don't translate well to the real world where the issues aren't contrived and there is no book that just provided what you need for the answer.
"The problem with hiring all the best and brightest for the company, is I would expect a high turnover."
Agreed. I would say though, that I highly recommend you make your final exam open book... like all problems in the real world are. I can't speak for everyone else but honestly everything has reached a point where I don't memorize much of anything anymore. Except maybe on a short term basis while working extensively with the same things. But I do retain a mental scaffolding of how to find and accomplish a task.
Also, that exam should be a challenge of some sort that involves the person sitting at a computer with a block of time and without you there. Plenty of people bomb while nervous in interviews and who will surprise you afterward.
Honestly though, the environment and system of achievement people get used to in college almost seems to inhibit them in the workplace. They are used to someone having the answer and the expectation the material will be provided. The real world isn't like that, YOU have to figure out an answer and the material might not exist.
"The problem with hiring all the best and brightest for the company, is I would expect a high turnover."
You should. When I had FIOS under verizon at one point they increased their speed offerings and gave everyone already on the service free upgrades. That was a brilliant move, they kept a fanatic base. That's exactly what companies should be doing with their staff in position as the market rates increase. If the market goes up 50% in 5 years you should pay your existing people 50% more over the course of that time. Instead companies hire at these new market rates and give 2-3% increases.
Not all experience is equal. But if you find 2-6yrs experience rinse and repeated for 10-15yrs hire it and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with a sure thing. Anyone who thinks a degree is a significant factor in that is delusional. If the degree is so important to you then pay his way to one. And as for any given tech stack, keep in mind that is mostly luck of the draw, these kind of people can learn your stack and more and more they just need the pockets of your company to get the access in order to have a chance at doing so.
There are skills which translate. Hiring someone new is a crap shot and my experience correlates with the findings above however experience ranging from 3-6yrs in different seats with successful performance definitely increases the odds of someone performing well.
Actual specific skills and degrees aren't particularly helpful except accessory skills. I've got a wide array of different platforms, languages, and experience under my belt. The entries on that list aren't what I'd say matters. Instead the list itself matters, it is a proven track record of learning and achieving with new skills.
The problem with the current hiring practice is everybody is looking for someone to already have the skills they need plus a degree. It takes a good year to learn the lay of the land and become genuinely productive at a new company, someone can learn the skills you need. Hire and pay people based on their record of learning and mastering material. Stop using the old coined phrase of "jack of all trades, master of none" there are no shortage of renaissance men who can achieve mastery in just about anything they do if properly supported. If you pay attention you'll see those "jacks" tend to be the ones who perform not the so called specialists.
College is backwards in my opinion. A bit of University learning is an excellent thing to provide for a proven resource with 5-20yrs of proven experience in multiple seats (not sitting in one position at one company). They will get far more out of the material because they'll know what matters and why and care.
Instead we dump reams of information on a bunch of people who are just going through the motions and have no concept of any of it actually being useful beyond advancing to the next grade.
Actually in some cases there is a shadow middle ground. Formalized courses and training that aren't connected to universities are also often listed alongside schooling in the education column of a resume these days.
Neither is the same as on the job experience but the vendor supplied courses still tend to be a bit more meaningful than college courses. HR considers education, experience, and then training. In the real world what counts is experience, training, "formal" education.
There are areas of science and computing around it that are exceptions but that is a tiny sliver of a massive industry. Actually in some sense "scientist" is becoming the new "engineer." You hardly need someone with a masters or PhD working on "data science" you can teach pretty much anyone with a solid IQ the skillset in a few months.
A proven track record working in the field with success at at least a handful of different locations over time (not decaying in the same seat the whole time) is worth more than a degree any day. A fresh college graduate doesn't really seem to do better than any reasonably intelligent individual hired from anywhere.
We proved it at one of our workplaces. Instead of the college grads we normally hired for entry level we hired the guy who did our water deliveries. In six months he was one of the best entry level people we had and while I'm not there anymore I know he has gone on to have a solid career. He just needed to get experience under his belt to edge through hiring processes.
^ The reason for the alleged talent shortage in a nutshell.
Linux/Unix admin to devops is a great example of this. You have thousands of highly experienced people floating around who are perfect candidates to shift into devops but overnight all of what is essentially performing administration with some new toolchains listing are looking for software developers with the same prejudice toward high degrees the software development field is plagued with. The big problem? Administration was not plagued with this prejudice.
The need to get familiar with git/jenkins/and an automation framework should not bar you from hiring someone with 10-20yrs experience managing enterprise systems into your enterprise. A degree certainly shouldn't. You don't need someone who can spout impressive theory you need someone who has experience with those massive loads and critical operations and who knows where design choices will block you in a few years down the road. Those tools are easy and a degree really makes no difference one way or another the skill at play here is just coding. It's takes longer to get familiar with the specific environment in any large organization than it does to pick up a new toolset.
I would certainly be looking for diverse experience (a handful of shops vs sitting in one seat for 10-20yrs) but a proven track record is more valuable than a degree any day.
"But if you combine that with IBM hiring less degreed people and more for specific skills"
I think you are adding a level of specialization above and beyond this concept. There is no requirement that you hire a "Chef expert" or someone with a masters to work on Chef. Hiring someone who has automation skills with any framework and experience is still hiring someone for their skills.
So I don't want my browser bogging down my system just because I have a few tabs open and to have to force quit my browser and lose everything I have saved in an open tab because some plugin crashed Firefox again.
I used Firefox for years but honestly, Chrome is better. Not the UI, the UI has been overly minimalist for some time and sadly Firefox has copied much of that. Some of us want to have our cake and it too. It seems like a fork is needed to solve this.
I also think there are a lot of dishes that have a wide "salt zone" wherein the dish still tastes okay. People who know how to salt will add in increments until they reach somewhere near the bottom of that range. People who do not will add salt from a recipe or in larger increments getting a result that seems to taste right but contains more. It's possible overtime this desensitizes them to salt.
The elderly have diminished taste buds as well. It is a common practice to replace salt with sugars in the shakers on the tables in retirement homes.
And of course there are chronic salters. If there is a shaker on the table many people will pick it up and salt before even tasting the food.
What is becoming more and more prevalent is actually the opposite wherein people under-salting. I think this is being fueled by ignorance of what salt can do and people who think salt will harm their health. The reality is that if you've eliminated processed foods from your daily life then eating bland food can put you at risk of sodium deficiency especially if combined with an active lifestyle/exercise.
Lots of reasons. The most likely being that they didn't. They were fed over-salted food coming out of a can as children from an elderly smoker generation that couldn't taste food.
Slashdot Mirror
At no point in the TFA does it say anything about unlimited funding the submitter added that.
Also with money as no object and a rocket city rednecks attitude they could certainly get there faster than 10 years.
That is the sad state of US weather computing really. It isn't like the weatherman is the one predicting what is going to happen.
Happened to me but only selectively. I tend to slightly over salt chicken/turkey soup. I still know where the salt level should be and will salt the pot appropriately but I always add more to my own bowl because I grew up eating Campbells canned chicken soup as a kid.
Not at all. Just looked him up he's going strong at Juniper now.
"As part of the announcement, the companies said they will be expanding Project Tiger, a joint initiative they launched in 2017 to increase the number of articles in underrepresented languages in India. They intend to provide editors with resources and insights to create new Wikipedia articles across 10 languages in India, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region."
That's a poor example. First you make cable and streaming companies pay them out of their cut. Second, local weathermen don't even really need to exist anymore.
"For every competent self-taught applicant you get, you will get 10 incompetent self-taught applicants. Requiring a degree greatly reduces the number of people overall who will apply."
That isn't the issue, the issue is that your rate of diamonds doesn't go up with the degree requirement. In fact is generally goes down. The methods of learning found in a classroom that people with degrees have gotten used to don't translate well to the real world where the issues aren't contrived and there is no book that just provided what you need for the answer.
"The problem with hiring all the best and brightest for the company, is I would expect a high turnover."
Agreed. I would say though, that I highly recommend you make your final exam open book... like all problems in the real world are. I can't speak for everyone else but honestly everything has reached a point where I don't memorize much of anything anymore. Except maybe on a short term basis while working extensively with the same things. But I do retain a mental scaffolding of how to find and accomplish a task.
Also, that exam should be a challenge of some sort that involves the person sitting at a computer with a block of time and without you there. Plenty of people bomb while nervous in interviews and who will surprise you afterward.
Honestly though, the environment and system of achievement people get used to in college almost seems to inhibit them in the workplace. They are used to someone having the answer and the expectation the material will be provided. The real world isn't like that, YOU have to figure out an answer and the material might not exist.
"The problem with hiring all the best and brightest for the company, is I would expect a high turnover."
You should. When I had FIOS under verizon at one point they increased their speed offerings and gave everyone already on the service free upgrades. That was a brilliant move, they kept a fanatic base. That's exactly what companies should be doing with their staff in position as the market rates increase. If the market goes up 50% in 5 years you should pay your existing people 50% more over the course of that time. Instead companies hire at these new market rates and give 2-3% increases.
Bam
^ This.
Not all experience is equal. But if you find 2-6yrs experience rinse and repeated for 10-15yrs hire it and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with a sure thing. Anyone who thinks a degree is a significant factor in that is delusional. If the degree is so important to you then pay his way to one. And as for any given tech stack, keep in mind that is mostly luck of the draw, these kind of people can learn your stack and more and more they just need the pockets of your company to get the access in order to have a chance at doing so.
There are skills which translate. Hiring someone new is a crap shot and my experience correlates with the findings above however experience ranging from 3-6yrs in different seats with successful performance definitely increases the odds of someone performing well.
Actual specific skills and degrees aren't particularly helpful except accessory skills. I've got a wide array of different platforms, languages, and experience under my belt. The entries on that list aren't what I'd say matters. Instead the list itself matters, it is a proven track record of learning and achieving with new skills.
The problem with the current hiring practice is everybody is looking for someone to already have the skills they need plus a degree. It takes a good year to learn the lay of the land and become genuinely productive at a new company, someone can learn the skills you need. Hire and pay people based on their record of learning and mastering material. Stop using the old coined phrase of "jack of all trades, master of none" there are no shortage of renaissance men who can achieve mastery in just about anything they do if properly supported. If you pay attention you'll see those "jacks" tend to be the ones who perform not the so called specialists.
College is backwards in my opinion. A bit of University learning is an excellent thing to provide for a proven resource with 5-20yrs of proven experience in multiple seats (not sitting in one position at one company). They will get far more out of the material because they'll know what matters and why and care.
Instead we dump reams of information on a bunch of people who are just going through the motions and have no concept of any of it actually being useful beyond advancing to the next grade.
Actually in some cases there is a shadow middle ground. Formalized courses and training that aren't connected to universities are also often listed alongside schooling in the education column of a resume these days.
Neither is the same as on the job experience but the vendor supplied courses still tend to be a bit more meaningful than college courses. HR considers education, experience, and then training. In the real world what counts is experience, training, "formal" education.
There are areas of science and computing around it that are exceptions but that is a tiny sliver of a massive industry. Actually in some sense "scientist" is becoming the new "engineer." You hardly need someone with a masters or PhD working on "data science" you can teach pretty much anyone with a solid IQ the skillset in a few months.
A proven track record working in the field with success at at least a handful of different locations over time (not decaying in the same seat the whole time) is worth more than a degree any day. A fresh college graduate doesn't really seem to do better than any reasonably intelligent individual hired from anywhere.
We proved it at one of our workplaces. Instead of the college grads we normally hired for entry level we hired the guy who did our water deliveries. In six months he was one of the best entry level people we had and while I'm not there anymore I know he has gone on to have a solid career. He just needed to get experience under his belt to edge through hiring processes.
^ The reason for the alleged talent shortage in a nutshell.
Linux/Unix admin to devops is a great example of this. You have thousands of highly experienced people floating around who are perfect candidates to shift into devops but overnight all of what is essentially performing administration with some new toolchains listing are looking for software developers with the same prejudice toward high degrees the software development field is plagued with. The big problem? Administration was not plagued with this prejudice.
The need to get familiar with git/jenkins/and an automation framework should not bar you from hiring someone with 10-20yrs experience managing enterprise systems into your enterprise. A degree certainly shouldn't. You don't need someone who can spout impressive theory you need someone who has experience with those massive loads and critical operations and who knows where design choices will block you in a few years down the road. Those tools are easy and a degree really makes no difference one way or another the skill at play here is just coding. It's takes longer to get familiar with the specific environment in any large organization than it does to pick up a new toolset.
I would certainly be looking for diverse experience (a handful of shops vs sitting in one seat for 10-20yrs) but a proven track record is more valuable than a degree any day.
"But if you combine that with IBM hiring less degreed people and more for specific skills"
I think you are adding a level of specialization above and beyond this concept. There is no requirement that you hire a "Chef expert" or someone with a masters to work on Chef. Hiring someone who has automation skills with any framework and experience is still hiring someone for their skills.
"I'm asking in all seriousness: SO?"
So I don't want my browser bogging down my system just because I have a few tabs open and to have to force quit my browser and lose everything I have saved in an open tab because some plugin crashed Firefox again.
I used Firefox for years but honestly, Chrome is better. Not the UI, the UI has been overly minimalist for some time and sadly Firefox has copied much of that. Some of us want to have our cake and it too. It seems like a fork is needed to solve this.
I also think there are a lot of dishes that have a wide "salt zone" wherein the dish still tastes okay. People who know how to salt will add in increments until they reach somewhere near the bottom of that range. People who do not will add salt from a recipe or in larger increments getting a result that seems to taste right but contains more. It's possible overtime this desensitizes them to salt.
The elderly have diminished taste buds as well. It is a common practice to replace salt with sugars in the shakers on the tables in retirement homes.
And of course there are chronic salters. If there is a shaker on the table many people will pick it up and salt before even tasting the food.
What is becoming more and more prevalent is actually the opposite wherein people under-salting. I think this is being fueled by ignorance of what salt can do and people who think salt will harm their health. The reality is that if you've eliminated processed foods from your daily life then eating bland food can put you at risk of sodium deficiency especially if combined with an active lifestyle/exercise.
By all means continue not enjoying food to its maximum potential.
Lots of reasons. The most likely being that they didn't. They were fed over-salted food coming out of a can as children from an elderly smoker generation that couldn't taste food.
"annoying garbage to proliferate by piggybacking on not-shitty ads."
Wait, what are these not-shitty ads you refer to?
Until they take enough marketshare and pull an Android like Goo... oh wait.
With the added bonus of being slow, a massive memory hog, and generally sucking.
How the hell does advertising enhance programming? It always detracts.