Slashdot Mirror
Trump Offered NASA Unlimited Funding To Put People on Mars by 2020, Report Says (nymag.com)
From a report, based on a book by Cliff Sims, who worked as a communications official for Trump on his presidential campaign and in the West Wing: As the clock ticked down, Trump "suddenly turned toward the NASA administrator." He asked: "What's our plan for Mars?" Lightfoot explained to the president -- who, again, had recently signed a bill containing a plan for Mars -- that NASA planned to send a rover to Mars in 2020 and, by the 2030s, would attempt a manned spaceflight. "Trump bristled," according to Sims. He asked, "But is there any way we could do it by the end of my first term?"
Sims described the uncomfortable exchange that followed the question, with Lightfoot shifting and placing his hand on his chin, hesitating politely and attempting to let Trump down easily, emphasizing the logistical challenges involving "distance, fuel capacity, etc. Also the fact that we hadn't landed an American anywhere remotely close to Mars ever." Sims himself was "getting antsy" by this point. With a number of points left to go over with the president, "all I could think about was that we had to be on camera in three minutes .. And yet we're in here casually chatting about shaving a full decade off NASA's timetable for sending a manned flight to Mars. And seemingly out of nowhere."
Sims described the uncomfortable exchange that followed the question, with Lightfoot shifting and placing his hand on his chin, hesitating politely and attempting to let Trump down easily, emphasizing the logistical challenges involving "distance, fuel capacity, etc. Also the fact that we hadn't landed an American anywhere remotely close to Mars ever." Sims himself was "getting antsy" by this point. With a number of points left to go over with the president, "all I could think about was that we had to be on camera in three minutes .. And yet we're in here casually chatting about shaving a full decade off NASA's timetable for sending a manned flight to Mars. And seemingly out of nowhere."
What makes you think this will be different?
...that he reminds me of Verruca Salt - "I want it NOW!"
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Sounds like someone is not used to having a boss. Managers ask unknowingly ridiculous things all the time. It is called having a job.
J
We could absolutely put people on Mars by 2020.
But if you want them to be alive when they get there, it'll take a bit longer.
He doesn't care about science, or exploration, or doing things the right way.
He wants a JFK, "we're going to the Moon", but this time Mars, moment to win popularity points. Nothing else matters. He wants it for no other reason than to win a second term.
He needs to get the fuck out of here.
No idea too dumb, no taxpayer bill too big.
All in service of stroking one ego.
This time round America is the Soviet union, crumbling from within.
Unlike the moonlanding you really are going to have to fake it this time.
Thankfully everyone is now ideocracy tier retarded, so the fake footage won't need to be very sophisticated. Just use clips from The Martian.
This is how people with a very high IQ think and act. Almost like ADHD, except very focused.
This is just an observation, not an endorsement or denial of President Trump. I've worked w/people
like this. You look at their results, not the traveled path they took getting there 'cause chances
are you wouldn't understand it.
And you might see an easier way to their answer, but remember, you saw their answer and thus
were influenced by it.
CAP === 'ranked'
Trump's one of those "businessmen" who think two women can bring a baby to term in 4 1/2 months.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
He means first and only term.
How is this different than any other business? A CTO with a million things on their plate may come to you and ask if you can speed up SAP deployment to a year.
It's a good question. If your constraint is funding or inter-company politics, a motivated CTO can fix that. There are limits to how fast you can speed up some projects, but what's the harm in asking?
Ditto for Mars. The President might have some interesting conversations if he made a phone call to Musk asking the same thing. Grant a contract or two, for half the cost of NASA, and see w hat magic Elon can pull out of his hat. (SpaceX will have landers on Mars before SLS does it's first launch anyway...)
When creating your false narrative you should try to choose something at least conceivable. Nobody else, Republican or Democrat would ever suggest such a ridiculous and obviously ego catering idea. Indeed, if "Obama" did this the only question anyone would be asking is "where did Trump get the Obama suit?"
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
& Trumpest
Maybe he should've made a proposal to the president himself on the first trip by 2020.
If he is ready to risk the lives of astronauts before any serious testing can be done, he must have absolute trust in NASA's abilities. Therefore he should be the first to go.
..he would have said "No, Mr President we can't get it done for 2020 but we can get it done for the end of your second term if you start the funding right now.!
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
My life is a wreck. There is nothing left for me on earth so i'd gladly volunteer for a one way trip to mars if you'll take me.
To be one of the first humans to set foot on another planet would be an honour i'd gladly give my life for.
I imagine he was rather disappointed with where our space program is at the moment though. Can't say as I blame him.
It'll happen eventually though.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
I'm guessing this was after he heard that Mars has no extradition treaty with the US.
Also, constitutionally he doesn't have the rights to do this. This is why there is a government shutdown right now. He wants to pay for the wall, an other part of the government doesn't. The House of Representatives has the power of the purse strings, so they will not fund this wall. So the president will not approve any budget without such funding.
If he had the ability to unlimited fund NASA, why doesn't he have the ability to fund for his wall.
Also of note even with unlimited funding, putting a Man on Mars by 2020 is impossible. To perform such a project new technologies need to be made and the mythical man month is in play. There is only so much the everyone can do at once until they start stepping on each others feet.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
While NASA is something that Democrats will likely be much more happy to fund, it would be interesting to see Republican response to such drive from the Administration.
Now, as for NASA's part... I'd say take the money and RUN! Pour as much money as you can get into the prep work. There's got to be unmanned missions that need to go before hand just to find the right site to land in. We'll have to deposit gear and supplies ahead of time, we'll have to have an orbital relay station in place most likely. While they realistically can't people there by 2020, they could make strides in that direction.
But, perhaps they can parlay it into something like establishing a working base on the moon, to make a shot at Mars have a higher chance of success, allowing NASA to hone their craft at building something for humans to live in on a remote world. While it might not be Mars, a working base on the Moon would be no small feat.
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Why would the billionaire, ostensibly human, leader of the free world offer unlimited funding to flee the Earth? Surely the reason must be much bigger than a pesky legal situation.
“A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” -Greek Proverb
Donald Cuck otoh wants the rocket lettered with gaudy gold plated "TRUMP" sign gleaming setting off the orange in his fat smirk.
Nobody else, Republican or Democrat would ever suggest such a ridiculous and obviously ego catering idea.
Sure they would. They just wouldn't do it publicly.
With Trump, there is no filter. What he says in private is what he has in public. This is what his supporters love, and his detractors hate.
Or have we forgotten that Obama shut down the space program altogether?
https://www.nasa.gov/
Seems to be working for me?
I hate fat people.
If he asked the same question of Elon Musk, he would have had a yes. Of course, Elon has a long track record of missing deadlines, but if SpaceX didn't have to use profits from regular launches to fund their Starship program, they could probably move it forward faster.
This would be little more than another pork trough for Boeing and Lockheed Martin.
How much of a warning did Kennedy give people before his Rice University address? History books portray that we were floundering around and Kennedy put on his big-boy pants and declared we are going to the moon...then we went.
SPACE FORCE!! to MARS! and BEYOND!
And if any Democrat President had offered unlimited funding to get a human mars landing in 4 years we'd be applauding the progressive actions to move technology and human progress forward.
Or have we forgotten that Obama shut down the space program altogether?
Nice troll.
TL/DR? Okay, here you go:
The Space Shuttle program was extended several times beyond its originally envisioned 15-year life span because of the delays in building the United States space station in low Earth orbit—a project which eventually evolved into the International Space Station. It was formally scheduled for mandatory retirement in 2010 in accord with the directives President George W. Bush issued on January 14, 2004 in his Vision for Space Exploration.[
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
and maybe Mitch McConnell? Asking for a friend.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Whatever happened to that plan for a private company to send two people on a flyby of Mars? It probably couldn't happen by the end of 2020, though.
I think the best Nasa might be able to do by 2020 would be to send a small mammal, like a mouse, on a flyby of Mars. I'd say its chances of survival would be 50/50 at best, but it would give us a good idea of the danger involved. Landing it on Mars might also be possible, but launching it back to Earth after that probably wouldn't be. Which would turn it into the next Laika.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
Nah. We'd also call him desperate to pull a publicity stunt because he feels like his approval ratings are sliding.
To Mars in 4 years. From what is essentially standstill. Keep on dreaming.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No they wouldn't, because they aren't so stupid and uneducated that they would think it was possible. And Trump didn't do this in public dumbshit. He did it in a private meeting, and it was so fucking stupid that they couldn't stop talking about it.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
If you want to find out if resources are holding things up, ask people how their estimates will change if they aren't a factor.
The premise here is just click bait.
Nice sig.
and they might even survive. Yeah, it's technically 4.83 months, but since when is any construction project on time?
That said, it's probably not a good idea if you value human life. And at any rate it's really just a distraction/vanity project. I'll believe Trump is concerned for our future when he makes good on his campaign promise of Universal Healthcare.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It's a good thing JFK wasn't as hated as Trump or we'd have never made it to the moon. Seek help for the derangement syndrome already.
Of course he has the right to do this. All he has to is claim that it's needed for national security, and to declare a national emergency about it.
Remember all those emergency powers you granted past Presidents?
Trump does have exactly this ability with regards to the wall, and people have been expecting him to go that route. He's stated unequivocally that he has the power to do so (and he's 100% correct), but that he would prefer for an actual bill to get passed. It's effectively his nuclear option, and it would start a whole new level of shitstorm that no one is prepared for.
As for Mars, if a President really wanted to get it done and had an unlimited budget to do so, they'd tap the military to do it under the guise of NASA breakthroughs, ingenuity, and gumption. I have no doubt in my mind we can get someone there in a couple of years. The military has propulsion, guidance, and control systems at least 2 generations ahead of what's available publicly. But it would be a huge fucking waste.
Neither did JFK and going to the moon within a decade when he challenged it was a much larger leap. But keep on with the derangement.
I can't begin to describe how immensely sad this makes me at so many levels. At what point did the techies become such losers? I can remember a time, when we would examine the seemingly impossible, buck up, and meet the challenge. We have by no means met the edge of technology or solved all the problems we can solve. Like so much in life, it comes down to will, and you guys are a a complete bunch of pussies.
I want you to think about this. Really, truly, deeply think about this, and opportunity that was just lost. The space program has by and large been stalled. There is constant talk of going somewhere or doing something, sometime, which always seems to be 20 years away. Bureaucrats have been hired, who are more interested in job security than achieving. We have had a series of presidents, both republican and democrat, who have half assed the space program. We have lacked drive. We have lacked purpose. Now, an increasing number of people are losing interest that there is talk of far reducing funding or cancelling altogether. Why chase dreams when we can pay for more mundane practical stuff. It IS a good question.
So, along comes trump. You (likely) live in California, so you reflexively hate him, no matter what he says or does. So, when he asks if you want to chase your so called dreams, for real, you withered in the moment and said no. You disgust me. You should disgust yourself, and anyone else who loves epic science. The bell was rung, and you CHOSE to be tone deaf.
When Kennedy similarly rang the bell, better men than you rose and answered it. A whole host of knew technologies needed to be developed, but they new at its core, the moon shot was possible. Mars is the same. There are some issues to be solved, but they are not infinite. If Elon Musk offered a blank check for materials to have the best and brightest to work on this, you would faun over him, and maybe even be involved. But no, since you are small and petty, you mock and deride the effort because it was Trump.
You can say the timing was bad. You can claim it was unfair. But anyone who has ever chased a dream knows, you have to have your elevator speech ready. You never know who you bump into to make it happen. Instead of being snarky at Trump, you should save your Ire for the fucking NASA admin who was not prepared. He was asked, and he was not ready. Pathetic.
This was a moment in history lost. This was a moment for serious people with serious dreams. Instead, we got you. Instead of galvanizing expertise to figure out ways to meet the challenge, we will continue to support the nowhere scientists making nowhere plans for nobody. We will hand-wring and bitch that there is not money to test out solutions, since it is more fun to hand-wring and bitch than to actually tackle the problem. Again, you disgust me.
I think Trump understands the illegal aliens are coming from Mexico and not Mars, however, I'm not so sure. If he's looking for one way trips to Mars, he might think this is a great solution for the problem he sees as the southern border.
Call me the King the Mars! #MAGA
Best comment ever! Iâ(TM)ll grab my buggalo
Try to explain this to a spoiled brat that's used to getting what he wants if he only screams loud enough and holds his breath.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No new technologies need to be made. All you need is a ship, food and water, and someone willing to go. That's it.
The video feed from Mars, with her psychotic-lunatic stare, will generate billions of page views !
Donald Trump, the "Fuck fiscal responsibility!" president!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Yes perhaps, in terms of basic technology but no in terms of cost and overhead which, if scaled linearly with distance (time) with manned missions, would be pretty steep.
They have not yet solved the problem of humans surviving several months of radiation in space yet -- I'd call that a "new technology that needs to be made", although I suppose 100 tons of lead shielding would probably do the job...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Pay attention, please! The Democrats are now the party of fiscal conservative (See the Pay-Go resolution in the House). As far as I can tell, racism is the only thing the Republicans still have going for them... BUILD THAT WALL!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
"“The President would have to be right on time, a rarity,” - Yeah, no agenda here...
There was also no offer for unlimited funding.
This wasn't a meeting to accelerate the schedule. Trump was asking questions. Tell me, any of you, if you were president, wouldn't you ask if we could get to Mars earlier? Of course you would.
To summarize: A very biased source took a question that wouldn't be unusual for a president to make and misrepresented it so that all of the liberal sheep can all bleat in unison.
shuttle program != space program
The shuttle program is one aspect of the space program. You do not need to conflate things like that in order to disprove the AC.
Tell him he nees to declare a national emergency. So he gets his retarded wall, and you get basically all the money you want. Suddenly, every amazing research you wanted is "necessary" to get to the moon. He does not understand it anyway!
In the end, when he's gone, of course the pproject will have failed (as planned), but you will have built a shitton of cool things, made a shitton of cool contracts (to keep things going) that you can't undo, and can still use all those things after he is gone.
Never underestimate the leverage of a useful idiot in the right position, who wants something from you.
Realistically speaking if he wants re-election fodder, he doesnâ(TM)t need to put a person on mars by 2020, he just needs a departure for mars. Donâ(TM)t underestimate the value of leaving for mars
Also.. he didn't demand it. He asked a question.
Starship is moving along awfully fast, Musk says it could carry a crew to Mars in 2020. Don't the pieces fit? Meanwhile, NASA's little Starliner capsule might get its first manned flight in 2019. Pretty embarassing for NASA if they only get a few Starliner flights in before Starship makes it obsolete, or worse, if Starliner is delayed another two years and never makes more than a test flight. I'd bet Trump asked Musk first, knowing how it would all play out, then asked the NASA guy just to get his incompetence and can't do attitude on record. Will make it easier to cut NASA later.
Why don't you tell us?
I'm used to doing hard work to achieve what I want.
You seem to be the one crying because you didn't get your way and didn't get Hillary in the White House. There seems to be a LOT of you crying that someone else needs to provide you things you want (college, healthcare, food, housing, etc) without you having to work for it. You seem to be throwing a lot of fits because you are not getting it.
If you spent half as much effort working for whats important to you, you would already have it without having to oppress people who worked hard for what they wanted.
Let's go ahead and satisfy Trump's narcissism by making him a national hero and sending him to Mars no later than 2020! He can be the first person to Mars. You only need enough oxygen for a one way trip though. And networking and his Twitter should only work until he gets to Mars.
And after Trump's term is up ... what's the worst that could have happened? The guy gets fired and nobody is on Mars. But there would have been a lot of progress made. Maybe it would have then been possible by the end of Trump's second term?
That is the problem with bureaucrats: they are too honest. Nobody expects politicians to tell the truth - the people they deal with should be self-serving for their causes, too.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
And I know just the man to put in charge of this project...
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3520...
Starting with Nancy Pelosi and the Mueller team and their 13 angry democrats.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
I just really can't believe, that the US president can just declare national emergency on just any damn cause he wants to. There must be some rules to that too, aren't there?
It reminds me my work at LG Electronics, when my manager was asking something absolutely impossible like sending employees to the Moon next day. And if I tried to say something against of it, he was saying that my job is to think about the plan of how we are gonna achieve this instead thinking why we cannot do that.
What offer? There was no offer.
I didn't realize 438 days was less than "several months". Perhaps you meant several years?
No, you do not understand TrumpWorld. He isn't really interested about getting a man there and back again. If he gets marooned, Trump would be okay with that. If NASA claims they haven't solved the technological hurdles just yet, Trump will declare that no one knows more about interplanetary travel than he, and outline all the shortcuts (safety, coming back, etc.) that would be made to make it so.
Of course, most of NASA would leave for the private sector before poor suckers are launched at Mars, thereby dooming the endeavor. Trump would then declare it was diabolical plot by Hillary and Obama to make him look bad. FOX News would declare that it was a victory for the Deep State.
One of the aspects of having private sector space programs is that NASA employees have somewhere else to go. On the one hand, Republicans would cheer as they hand out the contracts to companies in their districts. On the other hand, they'd lament the fact that they cannot now claim intrepid victories for government under their watch. I think the former would win out since in their view government's job is to hand out contracts to companies in their districts, the people be damned.
No new technologies need to be made. All you need is a ship, food and water, and someone willing to go. That's it.
They could easily use the space shuttle to fly there, I don't know why they haven't done it yet.
No sig today...
The point is that Obama did not "shut down the space program altogether". He did cancel the Constellation program because, in his words, it was "over budget, behind schedule, and lacking in innovation." He and other officials subsequently restored development of the Orion capsule, along with the Ares I lift stage and a Heavy Launch Vehicle stage to replace Ares V.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Graphene works as a shield and is very lightweight.
No sig today...
He'd have to demonstrate that the wall is needed due to an actual emergency. Having dead-eyed racist Stephen Miller claim that having our produce picked by cheap labor has been an emergency for decades is not going to cut it.
You are the only one I can see using the word demand. It's build your own straw man day!!!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
If he wants fame so much, lets send Trump on a one way trip to Mars, in fact lets send his whole damn family.
Tell him its a revival of the TV series "Lost in space" and he is playing "Smith"
Aim the damn thing at the sun and tell him its a short cut as Mars is on the other side.
Or just a Tesla. They can launch a Tesla into space with four space suited astronauts (two in the front, two in the back.) Easy-peasy.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Deficits only matter when a Democrat is in charge.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
HA! You have a much more rosy image of our retard lawmakers than most. It isn't just Trump. They're all dull knives.
I'll be the first to admit I'm not a fan of Trump. I also realize that pulling off something like this in a couple years is nearly impossible and just throwing money at it isn't a solution. That said, reading some of the other things that he said, I almost think he's on to something even if he was probably more concerned with making himself look good.
“We don’t capture people’s imaginations anymore,” Trump said, in what Sims described as “a rare moment of wistfulness.” Trump continued: “We used to do big things — incredible things. No one could do the things we could do. You have to inspire people. They went to the moon. But the call would be great. Honestly, how cool is NASA?”
Are we really on track to actually do something like a manned Mars mission by the 2030s or will that keep slipping? There are a lot of problems that need to be solved but is anyone actually working on solving them? Whether you like Trump or not, he did have a point - the space program used to inspire people and it would be amazing if it got back to that point.
Is it lies or is it delusions of adequacy?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
The very reason why we consider Obama a better President is that he wouldn't promise unlimited funding for someone so unnecessary. Hell, he didn't even promise unlimited funding for infrastructure, and that's still urgently needed.
It's bad enough when Trump defenders come up with "Oh, so it's bad when Trump does it but I don't hear any complaints when Obama did something that's not actually the same thing at all and was widely criticized at the time by the left", but "Oh, you'd support something completely stupid and reckless if it were proposed by someone you support precisely because he wouldn't do anything stupid and reckless" line is a whole new level of stupid.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Women hate you.
Perhaps NASA could put Trump on Mars before the end of his current term? Win-win-win.
The last President did claim that all he needed was a pen and a phone and the knowledge of how to use them.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
And had it been Obama, we'd be talking about how visionary and forward looking and all that he must be ...
This isn't democrats vs republicans. It is that Trump is an Insane Idiot, not fit to be president.
Precisely.
My thoughts while reading TFS were "Unlimited funding sounds silly", then "Mars by 2020... that's ridiculously aggressive..." and I started thinking about the planetary motions involved, and current launch capabilities (for humanity, not just NASA), and started constructing a timetable in my head. They'd need to launch by early 2020, with supplies for a year, and we'd still need some way to get them home... it just isn't going to happen.
None of that has anything to do with who's in the White House. Even with unlimited funding, there is reality to be dealt with. Space is big. Rocket science is hard. Humankind has not yet built a spacecraft that is capable of landing humans on another planet (with planet-scale gravity) and taking off again, let alone actually returning them to Earth. If we don't return them to Earth, human society has not reached a point where it's generally acceptable to send people to their certain death.
"But is there any way we could do it by the end of my first term?"
Again, my thought: "Oh, of course. That's why it's a ridiculous date. He wants a headline."
Past presidents had reasons for their decisions, however they affected NASA's funding. I may not agree with those reasons or their priorities, but at least they had American societal interests in mind. Trump is only interested in his own brand.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Also of note even with unlimited funding, putting a Man on Mars by 2020 is impossible. To perform such a project new technologies need to be made and the mythical man month is in play. There is only so much the everyone can do at once until they start stepping on each others feet.
Well, it's not totally impossible to put a man on mars by 2020. He may not be alive though.
Nice strawman!
While the usual be-ta dribblers bash on Trump for actually wanting what the be-ta dribblers wanted yesterday before reading that Trump wanted the same thing, slashdot diverts from the real story- that there are no microscopes on Mars.
What most dribblers here do not understand is that al-pha scientists at the end of the 1960s accepted that the evidence proved that microbiological life is common throughout our solar system where conditions on various moons and planets make life possible. Too many meteorites showed fossil evidence of this. Then there was America's 70s Mars landing with first quality chemical tests that proved beyond all doubt that life did exist on the surface of Mars.
And then organised religion struck back with Project Big Bang II. The original 'big bang' was a creationist ploy selling 'adam' and 'garden of eden' in another form, and had proven to be a storming PR success. So orgaised religion had its people dismiss the meteorite evidence and then the Mars chemical analysis with the ole 'who can tell?'.
Well Hooke's invention certainly could tell, within minutes, which is why it is essential that there are no microscopes on Mars- and a legion of shills telling you in places like this one why microscopes are "anti-science"- or why the macro lenses used for geological examination on Mars are, in fact 'microscopes' (an utter lie).
It gets better. Australian researchers have developed molecular methods for looking at fossils that now prove whether a form is organic in origin, or just a crystalline function of inorganic aging. Their method recently examined a very interesting fossil that be-tas had been arguing for years was just a plant- and proved it to be an animal as al-pha scientists had always claimed. This was an Earth fossil- but their same methods have proven that the meteorites did indeed contain fossils of life that originated off our planet.
Why does this not get mainstream coverage? The power of organised religion on our planet is absolute. In the USA, nothing gets done at the highest level without the explicit approval of the judaic forces that have always controlled America. The real leaders of the 'protestant', catholic and j-ish churches work toward an identical agenda- and that agenda is pure societal control. The leaders of the recent m-slim influx into the USA sit at the same table.
So science in the form the plebs understand it is simply part of a religious continuum. A preacher from two thousand years ago would get the REAL meaning of 'global warming' in a second for instance. And he would also understand why the idea of extra-terrestrial life is such a problem.
NASA has one job and one job only- to perfect the means of waging nuclear war. When 'I dream of Jeanie' was a big hit in the 60s, this wasn't even hidden, as all astronauts in the USA had to be members of one branch of America's global murder machine- navy, airforce or army. There could be, by definition, no 'civilian' astronauts in NASA. After Vietnam, a new lying propaganda was needed, and the NSA worked to rebrand NASA.
So NASA has no issue with real non-military science being removed from their fake civilain programs. The only real science at NASA links to warfare- warheads, propulsion units, satellites etc. When organised religious leaders decide that there will be no Microscopes on Mars, NASA raises no objections, and 'young' scientists/engineers at NASA are told to keep their traps shut if they want to keep working there.
And now the propaganda has gotten so bad, Trump is bashed for wanting what you all wanted only yesterday. And I am young enough to remember the original well developed plan by NASA to put men on Mars in the aftermath of the moon program. And, before cancellation, that was going to happen many years BEFORE this current date. The cancellation happened NOT because of cost, but because it was decided that such a program could not be prevented from revealing the existence of life (assumed relatively primitive) on Mars.
Be-ta dribblers who think sciencey stuff 'cool' do not get how most of their favourite sciencey themes sold to them by the mainstream media are actually barely disguised religious themes- same as it always was for the plebs.
How did Kennedy know?
Was he a rocket scientist that calculated it out? or did he ASK NASA just like Trump here did.
You liberals are a fucking waste of time to talk to. Just so the rest of you know what they achieved today, to celebration and cheers... NY put in their Constitution the ability to have abortions in the 3rd trimester, up to the due date. Babies born alive due to botched abortions (not botched because they are done by inducing and killing the live baby later) are now allowed to be killed. Yep, your due date, you can have abortion by giving live birth and then killing it then, cheered in NY by governor when it passed today.
The border wall however is immoral.
Fuck all liberals.
The shielding needed for a deep space habitat will need to be a composite due to the different types of radiation and the weight limits that could be allocated to shielding. There is EM radiation such as x-rays, charged particles coming from the sun, and cosmic rays in high energy neutrons coming from deep space which are all blocked in different amounts by different materials. It's going to require different materials together to provide the lightest form of shielding. This will hopefully be able to include the storage of water, fuel, and other materials in order to save weight and space. How much of the craft they'll need to shield will depend on how much space the crew will generally need, which might mean some areas where less time is spent might have less or no shielding. All of this is going to require testing which will also be dependent on things such as the food and water reclaimation systems which have also not been built yet to be as efficient and reliable as needed for a two year mission.
No new technologies need to be made.
They haven't yet figured out how to safely land several tons of humans and descent craft on Mars.
Machines? Yes, some, but not all, of the time.
But they don't know how to safely land people.
Sometimes you can overcome logistical problems by simply throwing money at it.
Other times, you could throw every last cent, ruble, kopeck, yen, yuan, won, bot, pence, etc on the planet at it and it still won't make some problems go away.
If POTUS asks you about something like this, simply tell him that a manned Mars mission on a 1-2 year (since launching in December of 2020 would essentially be 2 years) timetable falls into the latter category.
Hey, unlike past presidents, this one actually ASKED NASA about it.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
2002 to 2012 And I seem to remember he did something else .
Your reply only pertains to OP's second paragraph.
Love the smell of conflation in the morning.
It's bad enough when Obama defenders whine "well he wuz a smarter president because he wuz fiscally responsible" when he WASN'T as the budget and deficit skyrocketed while he was in office but then frothingly attack Trump for asking a question in a private meeting about moving the space program forward (which Obama was ADAMANTLY AND PROVABLY against) and which NEVER ended up happening anyway as stupid and reckless.
So was going to the Moon in 8 years - but we managed to pull that off.
See my reply to penandpaper above.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
“And we will strengthen our democracy by passing the Equality Act, that is an act to end discrimination against LG— LGTB community,”
Nancy Pelosi
Where are you getting 438 days? Every proposal I've seen for sending humans to Mars has transit times in the range of a few months to a few weeks,depending on payload. Assuming we sent a SpaceX Starship carrying only a few people and only enough supplies to reach Mars (having sent the rest of the supplies ahead of time) you could cut the transit time way down.
And once you're on Mars (or the Moon), radiation pretty much stops being an issue unless you're stupid about it. A few meters of rock or twice that of sand offers as much radiation protection as the Earth's atmosphere, and we don't actually need that much to be reasonably safe.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
It's an interesting question - "can you do it?"
My next question would have been - "What would it cost?"
And then I'd have started asking about priorities and what they presently had on the table, etc.
Folks sure are funny though, getting wrapped around the axle 'cause the man asked a question.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
Earth and Mars are between 50 and 400 million miles or so apart. Currently they are 150,000,000 miles apart.
So no, this is not a good window to get someone there, even if you are ok with launching tonight, going fast and not slowing down on the way down.
Because unlike faith, science doesn't need you to believe to affect your life. See gravity.
Do all areas need to be protected? Can humans stay in their shielded sleeping pods enough of the day to make it easy?
Many are indeed "dull knives" while some are very smart, but Trump is the only one cutting his shitty steaks with a spoon.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
When the NASA guy tried to patiently explain why it would be 2030 when NASA was there, Trump should have responded with:
"Well SpaceX says they'll be landing people there in 2025, why is NASA so slow? Maybe I should just send more government money to SpaceX. Why do you think you deserve it instead?"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Trump has a lot of filters. That's why he won't talk to Mueller or answer questions under oath. He is a feckless, cowardly blow hard. He knows better than the generals, has a secret plan to defeat isis, and yet his crippling bone spurs in the foot that he cant even remember which side it was, let him be a draft dodger five times. He was for the war before he was against it.
Trump is not honest and open, he is stupid and careless. That's why he says there are good people on both sides of a klan rally.
He is also a terrible business man with a half dozen bankruptcies, who would have done better if he put his daddies money into the S&P 500. Probably wouldn't be in debt to Russian controlled bankers either then. Too bad we can't see his taxes. There's another filter...
Go ahead and shift goal posts now.
BIGLY Trump is the leader you all deserve. My white kids are learning Mandarin now. Good job Doland!!
RTFA. The question was asked almost two years ago.
And if you get past your derangement, it's a reasonable way to prod a bureaucrat into thinking big.
OK, but he could say "there is a caravan of people coming, which amounts to an army threatening invasion, and the easiest way to deal with it is a wall."
That would be within his purview and emergency powers, at least close enough that it would likely pass supreme court review (in the current court, of course).
Just because you don't want something to happen doesn't mean it won't.
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
Certainly, it is impossible to send young baby-face astronauts to the Mars by 2020. It is too risky. If they die in an accident the young promising lives will be destroyed and people will be upset.
However, there are fit old men who could risk it. For example, try to do the exercises which this 70+ years old mad does: https://youtu.be/HMe2JyoIOYk
Such men if selected and trained properly could do it.
Low energy transfer orbit times are always about the half the average of the two bodies years. As the ratios change, 'half the average' breaks, but for earth and mars, close enough.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Has he got anyone in mind?
Also, constitutionally he doesn't have the rights to do this.
He certainly has the right to champion it, and when the GOP controlled both houses he had a lot of effective power over the budget. Still not enough to get his wall, of course, but that's only because most Republicans opposed the wall (judge politicians by their actions, not their words: they had 2 years to fund it if they actually wanted it).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Safely is the key word. With unlimited funding and an unhealthy disregard for human lives, we can build and send millions of these crafts. At least a few people will survive the landing.
Of course he has the right to do this. All he has to is claim that it's needed for national security, and to declare a national emergency about it.
Remember all those emergency powers you granted past Presidents?
He might eventually do that for the wall, though clearly he enjoys the current situation. But for increased NASA funding? That would be a heck of a story even for Trump!
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Richard Nixon, the last criminal commander-in-chief (well, last one to get caught) was president during the first moon landing, so it's only fair that Trump gets to be president during the first mars landing.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
He still has the power of the military. The military should be on the border laying landmines and setting up a free fire zone. Walls have historically not worked. We do not need a 10 billion dollar structure barrier. We need hard men to fight the invasion of equally hard men that are destroying the American way of life.
It is all about societal evolution. The strong society displaces the weak society. Decades of prosperity have created a pathological condition whereby soft people think it is virtuous to allow their house be invaded, their wives ravaged, and their children sold into the slavery of drug addiction. The Mexicans have know decades of hardship and have become a strong united force that is invading the Disunited States. Eventually the situation will correct itself. It might take a long long time though.
It does not take money. It takes strength and courage.
"The civilized virtues are useless you maintain contact with the Barbaric virtues"
-President Obama
The $5 billion is a down payment on the wall. The total cost will be well over 70 billion.
This is only news, because Trump said it. I bet only Bill Nelson and Richard Shelby were the only people in the US Senate who knew much about rockets, and the manned space program. You could probably get at least a couple dozen senators to say similar things.
Well then use the shielding already present. Send a team to turn an asteroid into a spaceship and send it to mars orbit. That would be exciting. The thing might even have fuel.
They have not yet solved the problem of humans surviving several months of radiation in space yet -- I'd call that a "new technology that needs to be made", although I suppose 100 tons of lead shielding would probably do the job...
Not quite true. Your thinking in terms of getting to Mars and returning safely. Just not dying of radiation poisoning before you land? Much easier problem. More reasonably, there is some good lightweight shielding, as sibling post pointed out, which is good enough that you'd find plenty of people willing to take the risk. I believe radiation is just not the worst problem with long-term zero-g space flight - you can at least shield against radiation; bone loss is a much harder problem.
The big problem is just the massive delta-v needed for a manned Mars mission (with return), and the tyranny of the rocket equation. We simply can't build a rocket big enough to have that sort of delta-v budget (it's the stuff of "works in Kerbal Space Program", but not so much with real material limits). SpaceX imagines multiple launches, with several parts docked in orbit and many fuel launches.
We do have the tech to do that today, if cost were no issue, but the logistics just don't work. We have the tech to design the components, but not actual tested components, and that's many years of work. Then of course there's the multi-year wait for the launch window, then the travel time itself.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I find this comment to be incredibly offensive to my beliefs in treating people like people and not arbitrarily carving up the world just to fight over who controls the biggest bits.
Figure 50x the cost of the wall. Unlike the wall, not worth the cost.
Woah now, slow down with that wild optimism. It's only been proven that we can launch a 2-seater Tesla into space.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Sad, sad state of affairs when not one person sticking up for trump, is logged in. 99% of the trump dick riding is from troll ACs. The other 1% are true trump supporters.
The SLS seems like a normal, shuttle derived rocket. It could have had its first flight by 2020, before the Shutdown, instead of 2017. Now, if you mean it doesn't have any payloads yet, that is the fault of Congress, not the SLS rocket.
even with unlimited funding, putting a Man on Mars by 2020 is impossible.
Do you think the answer would be different if something twice the size of the Chicxulub asteroid was discovered heading towards Earth?
Would you like it to be?
To perform such a project new technologies need to be made
No. We know how to create artificial gravity, and we know how to protect ourselves from radiation. Supplying food, water and oxygen is already a solved problem. As is landing something the size of an SUV on Mars.
the mythical man month is in play. There is only so much the everyone can do at once until they start stepping on each others feet
The mythical man month only applies to individual projects. Not everyone needs to be on the same project. There could be thousands of separate efforts, delivering different parts of what's necessary. You can have a dozen entirely separate launches devoted to putting enough water in space, a dozen more for putting it on Mars, a few hundred for delivering people. At least a few of them will make it.
Great leaders sometimes ask "unreasonable" questions. I'd wager that there were more than a few incidents like this involving Steve Jobs.
Of course, most of NASA would leave for the private sector before poor suckers are launched at Mars
Most of NASA is the private sector. Very few people actually work directly for NASA, mostly project managers and administrators these days. The guys who build NASA rockets work for ULA, mostly, since the shuttle program ended.
It is great that the New Space Race is on, though, I agree with you there, but it has always been "private sector" doing most of the work, even in the 60s with the original Space Race. New Glenn vs Starship, place your bets (betting tip: New Shepard had a good launch today, while Star Hopper ... didn't).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
There isn't enough room here to explain it to you. So keep on screaming.
Absolutely - but nobody is proposing low energy transfer orbits to get to Mars. You might send cargo that way, but even if the crew survived their health would be permanently devastated. Plus you'd need a lot more supplies and possibly a recycling system on board, which would slow things down dramatically. Take the same rocket with just the crew and minimal supplies and you'd get there a lot faster.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Gee the second top article on that site is the BuzzFeed article that was proven to not be credible. Liberal bias much Slashdot?
We'll make great pets
There's no funding available. Nor is there political will to provide it. That's the real impossibility here.
A lot of the other "impossible" things would suddenly become possible if the deadline was a huge asteroid coming our way. For one, we would probably restart Project Orion and stop worrying about launch windows.
At no point in the TFA does it say anything about unlimited funding the submitter added that.
Also with money as no object and a rocket city rednecks attitude they could certainly get there faster than 10 years.
? Going to the moon is much easier than mars. You trump supporters are spewing lies you keep hearing. No wonder all of you are AC trolls.
So the difference is that for the Apollo missions there was a hunger to do it, and for Mars it's just padding estimates because there's no sense of urgency whatsoever?
They have not yet solved the problem of humans surviving several months of radiation in space yet -- I'd call that a "new technology that needs to be made", although I suppose 100 tons of lead shielding would probably do the job...
Actually it's not that bad. Current estimates are that a Mars round trip will take about 60% of an astronaut's career limit and that below 16 feet of Martian soil radiation will be Earth level. With a reasonable surface budget you're straddling the career limits, but note that they mean +3% chance of dying from cancer, it's not like a lethal dose or anything. The biggest dynamic is solar flares which are fairly low power and also directional so possible to shield against. Most think there'll be an emergency shelter inside the water tank, because water is quite effective at those energy levels. There's also the galactic cosmic rays (GCRs) that you can't shield much against, but they aren't a blocker for an exploration mission. They'd make it really hard to make any kind of permanent settlement though.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I'm not sure you understand the problems.
A. The space shuttle isn't that sturdy. It doesn't have the radiation shielding, to start. You could accelerate a little toward mars but it would have to turn belly-toward the sun for most of the trip and survival is doubtful. You really don't want that out in space for a couple months. It falls apart every time it lands.
B. It can't land and take off and land again (on Earth). So it's a one-way trip. As stated, you can put people on Mars by 2020, but they probably won't be alive. Leaving, once you get there on the Shuttle is a non-starter.
C. Not enough supplies. Half of the trip to Mars, which takes a few months, assumes that it is accelerating during the first half. The last half is deceleration. Then you somehow land and take off, then do it again? There's not enough O2, Food, Water, Fuel, etc without elongating the windows by large margins. You could pack it full of supplies, but that just makes everything harder to move, which takes more fuel and the optimal configuration doesn't get you to Mars and back.
I'm sure there's more, but that's just what is obvious.
What does a wall have to do with racism? It won't affect legal immigration. The voters in a democracy benefit from the ability to control immigration. The richest 100 families are the ones who will be hurt by the ability to control immigration - gotta keep labor costs down. This is why neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want the wall: it would hurt those actually in power.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Good I'll gladly support it. If you value your beliefs and culture you'd support it to.
You may be onto something here. The gyroscopic effect of the wheels, which can each be rotated individually, could be used to orient the vehicle. It already has climate control, slots for drink stowage, and a box for storing spacesuit gloves. Outgassing by cracking a window could be used to provide thrust if maneuvering was required.
Better known as 318230.
How about we send Trump himself?
Well you would need one helluva an army to defeat the USA if you believe in that nonsense.
Trump is the only one cutting his shitty steaks with a spoon.
in his defense, all of the forks and knives were dirty because he used them to eat a pizza.
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Declaring an emergency and then fighting about it in court is nuclear? Compared to laying off 800k government workers?
What's wrong with you?
It had to be out his own pocket, since Congress, specifically the House controls the purse.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I'd imagine it's pretty common for a president to ask something stupid of an expert. What I can also imagine is, with this particular president, the anecdote from the expert becomes public and the subject of articles like this one. And I like that. Trump seems to have no shame. He also seems more than willing to go out on a limb and ask something risky and look like an idiot. I personally have Never held that against someone in my professional career of 30+ years in technology. I also rarely ever share an embarrassing moment like that. Rarely, haha. With this exchange, I think it was right to share it.
The President typically proposes a budget and makes aspiration speeches about what he thinks the country should focus on and accomplish. Each year he can propose a budget with whatever funds for NASA they request so that is, in a sense, unlimited. I think it's reasonable to look at this through that lens. For example when JFK said "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard...", he hadn't gotten approval in the budget for all funds necessary to do so.
As well, the NASA administrator was incorrect in, apparently, claiming that it wouldn't be possible to attempt a manned space flight to Mars by 2020. First, an "attempt" is only that -- I can "attempt" to fly to Mars by flapping my arms very fast (and I'll happily take the contract to perform that attempt - for a mere $100M). Second, I didn't see any requirement that a "manned" space flight to Mars even required that the person survive past launch - in fact, I'll bet you could find some rich terminally ill person who would happily pay to launch on a flight to Mars with just ten days of supplies (O2, food, water) and a "sleepy pill" (or helium or nitrogen -- whatever works best) to use just before the O2 ran out. Given the way Trump makes deals (even when in the rare instances where he keeps his side of the bargain), one should just ask what fine print is in the agreement before claiming attempting such a mission by 2020 is not possible.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
On a related note, the russians are pressuring their NASA also. Time to put up or shutup and let some other folks have a shot perhaps: https://arstechnica.com/scienc...
Not an unreasonable question. The USA when puts its mind to something gets shit done.
Other examples include Manhattan project 1939-1945.
Not within 1 term mind. But still good question
You can't do it in a few weeks. Well, you can, but it would require an insane amount of delta-v.
Transit times to Mars fall roughly around 600-800 days and 150-250 days.
The Republitards are. You fuckers keep adding unacceptable riders to the bill. You assholes actually thought we'd agree to stop allowing asylum at the border? Fuck off.
If JFK could (successfully) ask for a man on the moon by 1969 in 1962 (with pratically no space technology available), why shouldn't DT get a man to mars, by the end of at least his 2nd term? Because it was a hoax the first time?
I think that would be a long shot even with our current Supreme Court. Those people in the caravan aren't armed to any real degree. Without that it's beyond a stretch to call them an invading army. I'm fairly certain at least a few of the conservative justices would balk at setting legal precedence giving the position of the president that much more power.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
He does this all the time. He says something way out of bounds of reality and in return he gets half of the world's experts writing pages and pages of detailed reports on anything he needs to know. Crowdsourced expert opinion for $0!
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
You wanna piece of me, boy? Jacked up and good to go, gimme something to shoot!
I love this comment.
He does that anyway but how many damn hit pieces do you need for one person?
Telling the truth is not a "hit piece".
Stating facts are not libel.
So every time he does something (stupid|clueless|evil), someone will write "Princess Tinyhands just did something (stupid|clueless|evil)....for the third time this hour."
Hence, each (stupid|clueless|evil) is documented, not as a bug but as a feature of a system that is working.
Welcome to an America that, for now, still has free speech and a free press.
Have you not heard of the international space station? Itâ(TM)s going to blow your mind.
Really?
As you say, you can make the trip as short as you want, you just need to reduce the payload. And while hundreds of days is perfectly acceptable for hardware, it's not for humans, so we wouldn't do it that way.
The alternative to getting there fast, is radiation shielding, which basically means at least a few pounds per square inch of surface, and preferably several. 14.7psi will get you Earth-atmosphere class radiation shielding, since radiation shielding effectiveness is directly proportional to mass, and only lightly affected by density, but that translates to a shell of rock 3.9 meters thick. As a back-of-the-napkin calculation: The SpaceX Starship has a pressurized volume of ~1000m^3, which if it were a minimum-surface sphere would be 483 m^2, or 749,000in^2 . For convenience lets call it an even million square inches for the definitely-not-spherical rocket. That means a million pounds for each 1psi of radiation shielding - or ~5x the payload to orbit. Put enough shielding on the thing to keep people safe, and you'll never get off the ground, so you'd have to install it in orbit, and even than would make the delta-V to reach Mars outrageous.
So instead we have to go light. Not much shielding, not much payload, and fly like the devil himself is on your heels.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Probably just as well nothing happened. Presidents have an irresistible urge to cancel a previous one's NASA pet project to save a little money temporarily but more importantly so they don't have to stand here like Nixon and thank a previous president for the effort.
Continuing such is a lose-lose for a president.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
What exactly is the difference in the landing vehicle? We've plopped a 900kg machine on the surface is gently as we could, why does it matter if that 900kg is full of metal or people?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
> human society has not reached a point where it's generally acceptable to send people to their certain death.
I'm happy that humanity has reached a point where it's NO LONGER acceptable to send people to their certain or likely deaths. In the olden days and in certain states this was certainly acceptable.
there is a caravan of people coming, which amounts to an army threatening invasion
Huh? A bunch of hungry migrants looking for a better life is akin to a professional armed military force trying to overthrow the government? How do you figure?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Half of Congress is the other guys. Of course they have bad approval ratings.
Meanwhile 110% of them get re-elected
I would think we celebrate a President that is asking for accelerated space exploration...
He was asking what it would take.. not blindly demanding it...
A few minutes of explanation of the logistical challenges cleared it up.
Why does everyone have to jump to their particular political confirmation bias as a knee-jerk reaction ?
I would take this as a sign that Trump will support increased space exploration and try to support it... unless your politics outweighs your love for science and exploration.
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
The worst thing you can possibly do in a deal is seem desperate to make it.
What a fucking asshole.
This guy is exactly what comes to mind when people used think of politicians. They will say and do anything to maintain power.
The problem is that people got so used to politicians being very sly about it that when this guy came around lying to their faces they thought it was something different.
Trump thinks his approval ratings will rebound if he successfully gets the wall. If he loses the wall fight, he'll almost certainly lose re-election. Also he's counting on a North Korean peace deal announcement next month to really give him a boost.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
It's not quite that simple. To go fast you need greater delta-v; because of orbital mechanics, to go more than a little bit faster you need a LOT more delta-v. Because of the need to carry fuel, the rocket equation tells us that our maximum delta-v is related to the specific impulse of our engine. It's a bit counter intuitive, but chemical engines can only let you go so fast. Making the non-fuel payload lighter helps, but it very quickly becomes an insignificant factor compared to the fuel mass. As long as you're using chemical rockets, launch windows, and the transit times they imply, are very much windows, with brick walls in between.
You could make a fast transit to Mars using ion or nuclear engines, but that's not off the shelf technology so it's not going to happen in the next two years.
What's BS is the price tag of $5 billion. $5 billion isn't even a down payment. $5 billion isn't enough to buy the raw materials needed. $5 billion is a lie, to get us on the treadmill of spending for political pork. And once the pork BBQ fires up and people smell the pork, you won't finish spending anytime this century.
$5 billion buys you 1 mile. Once you've done that, the Republicans will be back, cap in hand, 1,999 additional times. There's never enough political pork for this Republican Party. After all, who doesn't love a good BBQ?
We've plopped a 900kg machine on the surface is gently as we could, why does it matter if that 900kg is full of metal or people?
The Apollo LEM had a mass of 34,000 Kg, plus two astronauts, and that only supported the astronauts for 75 hours.
Even if you put the Mars habitation modules, food, rovers, ascent fuel and everything else down in separate landers (difficult in itself as it's all got to land together) you've still likely got 100 tons of lander and astronauts you have to safely put down in gravity twice that of the moon.
We haven't yet figured out how to do it.
a Mars round trip will take about 60% of an astronaut's career limit and that below 16 feet of Martian soil radiation will be Earth level.
We'd need to send a metric buttload of drones to prep the site first. Otherwise, the astronauts doing it when they got there would require some heavy digging tools in case they run into rock a few feet down, which would *dramatically* increase launch weight.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
That's false and you know it, the total cost is approximately $25 billion, this has been stated many times.
no what they said was true. Point of fact, before Trump got into office, 2008 Pelosi wanted to build a wall, 2009 Schumer wanted to build a wall and 2014 even Hillary on the campaign trail stated that she wanted a wall. The democrats hate trump which is why they are playing this game.
Whoosh, he's saying that's what Trump would say. Obviously it isnt true. Anyway the first thing any justice should ask is if they are such a threat, what idiot would build a wall instead of sending in the Army to defend the damn border with violence. But they're not the enemy and shame on us for even thinking that way when this entire country is built by immigrants. Even the "natives" migrated here from another continent long ago.
I don't think the border wall is immoral. It's just stupid.
It's both.
On the one hand, it is a symbol for paranoid cavemen who base their decisions only on an irrational fear of Brown People; which angers and alienates allies with which we have little quarrel; which is not something moral people should encourage or tolerate.
On the other, it is a waste of money on a vanity project.
Also, Princess Tinyhands is a multi-billionaire. He said so himself. Multiple times.
If this Wall was so damned important to him, he would've paid for it himself by now.
Can't believe Trump even asks this question. Can it happen in his term? The guy who was going to clean up DC is one of the WORST to have ever inhabited the white house. I think the answer is YES, but don't expect to get those people back here. He can blame their deaths on the fact that his stupid wall wasn't funded. His followers will believe anything apparently.
My beliefs are ambivalent on the value of the wall, but my (and probably your) culture is definitely 100% against there being any destructively-long long walls breaking up the natural habitat, being an eyesore (I live in New Mexico, the most beautiful state in the union, and the idea of shitting on our landscape is hugely unpopular here), getting in peoples' way, and infringing the property rights of people who own land near the border.
Don't bring protecting our culture into this, or else most Americans will be allocating money to tear down the sections of wall that have already been built. American culture is overwhelmingly against the wall. And when you get nearer the border, that only gets more extreme.
If the wall is your culture, you should consider moving to North Korea, or maybe East Germany in the 1960s (if you have a time machine). Your unAmerican views would probably fit in better in those places. Your communist vision doesn't have a place in America, snowflake.
Yes, a screaming horde of violent criminals, waving flags of another country, throwing rocks, and trying to break into our country to steal welfare benefits is literally a fucking invasion, you absolute fucking moron.
The Apollo LEM had a mass of 34,000 Kg, plus two astronauts, and that only supported the astronauts for 75 hours.
Ooohhhhhh.
I mean, just scale up the Curiosity retro-rockets, right? The retro-rockets just need to be, what, 6 times bigger? Plus fuel? And a giant sky crane?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Unless they are contract workers (not paid directly by the government) don't these people get paid regardless? The shutdown may indeed delay payment but they're still getting paid.
NASA is part of the executive branch. Theoretically, they've been planning to put a man on Mars by 2020 in the 1990s. There is no shortage of mission plans, both grandiose and mundane.
He should have said yes. Gotten the funding -- bipartisan congressional support might have existed to do something other than appease the illiterate racists masses. And maybe in a decade this would have happened. Otherwise NASA is going to keep reorganizing various projects into each other and buying staplers until the public gets tired of funding it.
For the record: I do not for a second believe that he understood the complexities. But what NASA needs more than an increase in funding is direction and for the direction not to change drastically every 2-4 years. We could have had multiple cities on various heavenly bodies by now if it wasn't for politicians fear or ACTUALLY telling NASA to go to space.
It's at least as threatening to the US as people trying to subvert democracy in Zimbabwe.
Go look up our current, massive and asinine list of national emergencies.
We warned you during Clinton's admin; we warned you during Dubya; we did Italian hands while trying to get it through your fucking heads with Obama.
Those who sow the wind, motherfuckers.
Whoosh, he's saying that's what Trump would say. Obviously it isnt true.
Yeah, right. So, then is the Supreme Court going to back him up like he asserts? I don't think so. Therefore, I don't think it's an option for Trump.
Whoosh.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Well, tough guy, don't let me stop you from showing pictures of this "screaming horde of violent criminals, waving flags of another country, throwing rocks, and trying to break into our country." Make sure they're actually violent criminals and that they actually have flags and are throwing rocks. I wouldn't want you to change the goalposts if you're going to throw out a bunch of hyperbolic bullshit.
Next, explain the logic behind a violent criminal who decides to sneak into another country, and decides to bring his giant flag to wave along the way. Because there's no better way to be stealthy than screaming while waving your foreign flag, right?
So, go ahead, show your evidence that the situation that you have been frightened into believing and that you shit your pants over daily is actually happening. Or, you know, shut the fuck up.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Since the jews have been proven to be so hard to eradicate like cockroaches, just send them all off to Mars' direction, the few that will get there might have a better chance of colonizing. Science done, Jews gone, win win
...unlimited funding for NASA and a man on Mars by 2020? Wouldn't that be cool?
Yes but there's all sorts of flow on effects to the delay. Peoples insurances are lapsing. Rents are going overdue. Medical expenses are being unpaid for. Kids school fees. All of this over the Christmas /new year which is notoriously the worst time to be poor
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Actually there is no maximum delta-V implied - delta-V increases with the logarithm of the fuel mass, and the logarithm increases increasingly slowly, but without any upper bound. In practical terms though the exponential increase in fuel requirements makes the diminishing returns unlikely to be worth it beyond some point.
You are right that we probably couldn't realistically make the trip in a few weeks with current technology though.
However, the typical Mars mission takes only ~150-300 days to reach Mars, and that's in a craft that launched directly from Earth's surface. Stop to completely refuel in high Earth orbit instead, as is a common feature of proposed crewed Mars missions, and your available delta-V increases dramatically.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Christ. Space nutters
So glad this is the first visible post.
Trump still thinks he's king. He isn't. There are two other branches of government.
Every time he tries pinning the shutdown on the Democrats, I remember that this shutdown started when the Republicans controlled the house, the Senate, and the executive. He couldn't get his own party to pay for it, now he's pretending it's someone else's fault for his screw-up.
The Left's Jimmy Carter. One term, and this is going to to hurt the Republicans.
Hello?! Trump doesn't need Congress because Mars is going to pay for it!
They have the ability to override his veto, he's not "doing it".
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
"I won't cum in your mouth"
"I'll still respect you in the morning"
The military has propulsion, guidance, and control systems at least 2 generations ahead of what's available publicly.
They really don't.
...we instead decided to piss away massive amounts of money on the shuttle and climate change, let alone 'outreach' programs, and we seem to have forgotten all of the awesomeness that got us to the moon. What changed between then and now? What happened to the workforce between the 1960s and the 1980s? Is there perhaps a picture virtue signaling the NASA work force that could give us a clue?
OK, but he could say "there is a caravan of people coming, which amounts to an army threatening invasion, and the easiest way to deal with it is a wall."
That would be within his purview and emergency powers, at least close enough that it would likely pass supreme court review (in the current court, of course).
Just because you don't want something to happen doesn't mean it won't.
I doubt that even this court would buy it. It's just too obvious a ploy to get the money congress is refusing to allocate him. Which, is the entire point of the divided government in the US constitution.
I think the actual plan would be to declare an emergency as a way to justify ending the shutdown. I don't know if Trump thinks it would work but the administration basically expects it to fail, the plan there is to reopen the government and give Trump the SCOTUS to tweet at instead.
I stole this Sig
The last President actually had a clue.
I'll bet you if there was some democrat voters up there on top of that planet you could get up there....
The only problem is that it isn't true. Not that that stops trump. He doesn't even understand the concept that some things are "true".
But all these clowns are hypocrites who simply cant stand the fact for all trumps faults he is a better person than they are
Only absolute idiots without a functioning brain think the situation at the border isnt a security crisis
Hahaha classic liberal trash logic, if i didnt see the pictures its fake! Bwahahaha i cant wait for 2020!!!
"Remember when I told you this was a slippery slope when you cheered your guy doing it?" "Sure, but this is so much worse" "Yeah, that's how slopes work...." (heard it on Instapundit today...) I still want him to apply the DACA philosophy to gun laws... Executive order directing ATF to ignore all law violations... If for no other reason then to go to a direct path in the courts to eliminate those executive powers for all time.
How many refugees live at _your_ apartment, shyster?
I probably should have said a *practical* maximum delta-v. The point remains, you cannot just go as fast as you want, as asserted by the OP.
If you look at the dv required it costs a lot to make the transit much shorter. For the window in 2019 it looks like you might actually better off waiting until 2020. In that window, 150 days is about the optimal. If you want to make that 100 days you pretty much double the dv required, and that's close to the rule-of-thumb limit of twice your exhaust velocity. You could trim that down to 80 days if you really, really wanted to go all out, but that's about it.
Agreed. 800k isnâ(TM)t nearly enough. Maybe we could stop paying the freeloaders overseas too. College tuition or paycheck: pickone.
Don't you uneducated deplorables know that space travel is ANTI-SCIENCE? Everyone knows that, or at least us real people do. And it's also RACIST!! You Trumpanzees know who else was into rockets? That's right, the NAZIS. Educated people like ME know that USian rednecks are too genetically stupid to ever put a man in space. Fire the locals, bring in the H1Bs! We will replace you! Heil Hillary!!
I bet the Great Orange Cheato doesn't plan to send even one transgender Islamic feminist astronaut! And CNN says he's planning to build a WALL on Mars!! Except everyone knows it's impossible for Americans to travel space - only our Chinese betters can do that. Death to America! Long live cheap plastic junk and the financial oligarchy!
Orange man BAD!!!!!!1!!11!!!!!!!!
"dead-eyed racist"
Wait - President Trump hired a Progressive??!!
Smug, half-educated, freedom-hating shysters sure do hate the idea of America retaking the lead in space exploration.
r[ap]efugees
"first we need to deal with the dependence on low-cost undocumented labor for the agricultural sector in the US"
Easy. Any agribusiness company caught willfully and repeatedly employing illegal immigrant labor shall have the whole of their lands seized. Expropriate the traitorous capitalist dogs, and sell off their land for cheap to family farmers.
Sure sure, the enemies of the people on the Supreme Kangaroo Court would object. But let us not forget how the great President Franklin Roosevelt put the judicial oligarchy in check.
But really, illegal immigration is a red herring. The real harm to American working people comes from the fully lawful "guest worker" (unwelcome guest) programs. The entire, explicit purpose of such programs is to drive down wages for indigenous workers. Ending the unwelcome guest worker programs is a necessary first step towards making America great again.
Kennedyâ(TM)s moonshot was no less audacious.. but the media lauds him as a visionary. Trump, they consider the same vision to be absurd.
Oh, and the media covered up JFKâ(TM)s numerous affairs (including with a playboy model!)
What a double standard!
There were. Congress has slowly - through precedent - eroded its own powers of oversight.
"Trump DGAF about approval ratings, as that would require a bit of dignity."
So the leader who does _not_ pander to the media old boys' club, nor to fickle (and often enough outright fake) public opinion polls, is _lacking_ in dignity? Oooookay then....
Vote Trump in 2020 for PEACE.
The real harm to American working people comes from the fully lawful "guest worker" (unwelcome guest) programs.
That, but I'd say automation is the bigger issue. And changes in business practices. Big companies replacing decently-paid employees with outside contractors paying minimum wage. The gig economy. That sort of thing.
I remember a bunch of hypocrites whining and moaning about a certain dictator president named Obama for 8 straight years.
It's so predictable Trumps nonsense is completely excused. It's like being in a cult.
... and paying off debts that only exist to make private psychopaths richer compared to humans.
Tax cuts for the rich, war budget and debt costs per year are very similar numbers by the way. (And the free money the banks got during he bailout is about ten to twenty times that.)
So if Trump started it now, and announced this as his moonshot if congress will provide bipartisan agreement, including putting forth a signed declaration that they are all going to back it next term if they are reelected, it could happen.
Now for the implementation side of things: We'd need a nuclear reactor. We'd need the Chinese and the Russians onboard. We'd need every heavy lift vehicle on the planet available for at least 20 launches per year.
If we did all this we could have enough fluid in orbit to act as radiation shielding, enough lead and/or depleted uranium panelling to protect a saferoom/plant stores, and the framework necessary to begin assembling it all. The labor and precision requirements for this would be immense. It would mean pulling in every talented machinist in a dozen countries. It would mean working in METRIC (because we can't fuck up with any of those unit conversions like the last mixed project.) But putting men on mars is definitely possible by then, short of a catastrophic impact en-route.
But to do it would mean not only turning around America, but the WORLD. ...
Do you see that happening? Because I don't.
Blew the title, I meant Mars. China has the moonbase concept already underway, and I have no doubt they can pull it off.
A lot was discovered from the moon landing, particularly from the rock samples and dust brought back. Up until that point there had been a lot of different theories on the composition of the moon and what it all meant. Since the lab equipment wasn't very advanced at the time there wasn't any way to accurately sample the composition remotely without also verifying it with a physical sample.
The moon landing game them one. Plus a view of the earth from the surface of the moon, which likely inspired thousands to millions of kids to do whatever they could to bring about the FUTURE...
spending $168 Billion this year on illegal aliens (spread across the entire budget, from healthcare, to food, to prisons - all of it, but none of which would be spent without the illegals being in the country).
Next time somebody asks why we do not have all the cool stuff we used to imagine, like colonies on the moon and mars, and supersonic bullet trains linking our cities in underground vacuum tubes, etc, just keep in mind the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend every year on national lawlessness (the illegals problems) and international lawlessness (the permanent non-war wars in the middle east that provide no benefit to the American people and which the politicians are desperate to keep fighting yet unable to annunciate ANY plan for winning (google: "pentagon papers" for a cautionary tale our previous 4 presidents all seem to have missed))
Oh, NASA's bugdet for this year (IF we ever get out of the shutdown) will be a little under $20 billion.
NASA was given the task of turning a shuttle ET into a shuttle-less ET (stretched slightly) stretching the shuttle SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) by one segment each, and placing 4 SSMEs (Space Shuttle Main Engines) at the bottom.
The initial space shuttle development (for the external tank, SRBs AND THE ORBITER) began in 1972 and the first flight was in 1981. That included all the R&D needed to invent the shuttle main engines, orbital maneuvering engines, and the orbiter airframes, and code the software to fly the orbiter through a Mach24 reentry, the development of new materials (like the thermal tiles), all of it. Done in 9 years.
The transition work from shuttle to SLS began in 2005 (under the Constellation program and then named the "Ares V"). It was re-named the SLS and the design further refined at the 2010 NASA budget fight between congress and president Obama. Depending on how you view it, we have already spent either 14 years of 9 years converting reusable SRBs and SSMEs into throw-aways (the simple thing and opposite of what Musk is up to at SpaceX) and stretchin a big gas tank. As things currently sit, SLS which is required by law to make its maiden flight by December 2017, is only barely likely to fly in a reduced capacity on an unmanned test flight before the end of 2020 and will not carry a single human into space until about 2024 (that will be 19 YEARS of development time before a human rides it into orbit).
NO NEW TECH HAD TO BE DEVELOPED FOR SLS! There was not one damned thing that was unknown and required research. NASA went from not even being able to put a chimp into space on a suborbital flight to having a man on the moon in 10 years, needing to invent a mindboggling list of materials, techniques, and facilities as well as FOUR flight architectures (Mercury-Redstone, Mercury-Atlas, Gemini-Titan, and Apollo-Saturn). In that 10 year period, NASA built the Kennedy Space Center in FL, the Johnson Space Center in TX, the Stennis facility, and many more.
The more you look at it the more shocking the corruption (outrageous "cost-plus" contracts to sclerotic dinosaur aerospace firms like LockheedMartin and Boeing) and complete bureaucratic incompetence of today's NASA becomes. The place should be shutdown permanently and all employees fired. Start a new place staffed by college engineering seniors and grad students, a few physics profs, a handful of military test pilots, an experienced former politician to interface with congress, and some tough-as-nails retired marine colonel to call the shots - a team with big ideas, energy, enthusiasm, competence with numbers, a willingness to take reasonable risks, and a drive for accountability balanced with performance.
were YOU worried about "fiscal responsibility" when:
[a] Bush sent troops to Afghanistan and Iraq for a war that has cost TRILLIONS of dollars and lasted FOUR TIMES AS LONG AS WWII??? If you are an establishment Republican (AKA "RINO" - Republican In Name Only), then I'll bet you never complained a bit, particularly if it was somebody other than you personally stepping into a combat zone.
[b] Pelosi and Reid (and his then-leutenant Schumer) gave president Obama nearly a TRILLION dollars IN ONE YEAR, IN ADDITION TO THE BUDGET, as "stimulus" for "shovel ready" jobs??? If you are a Democrat, I'm betting you were fully-onboard.
[c] Both Bernie and Occasio-Crotez have repeatedly called for "medicare for all" (a project the CBO has repeatedly analyzed and priced in the 30+ trillion dollar range for only the 1st decade of coverage??? If you are a progressive, then I'm betting you have been thrilled by these proposals without even bothering to think about the impossibility of giving EVERYBODY a form of insurance that functions by shifting most of the costs to other customers with traditional private insurance and yet simultanously eliminating those traditional insurance policies, companies, and customers.
Compared to RINOs, Neocons, Liberal Democrats, and Progressives, Trump is looking pretty damned fiscally responsible and a hell of a lot more patriotic.
Trump: empowered to the point of delusion :disempowered to the point of delusion
Democrats
Extra judicial killing of American citizens.
Classy.
The right : illegal immigration is full of crazy criminal rapists and "some" good people
The left : illegal immigration is full of brown women and children who have been oppressed and just want a better life.
Both are fantasy.
If it's anything like Europe it's largely economic migrants, largely men*, and there is a significant minority (Way above the demographic average) who are criminal and looking for opportunities to exploit or fleeing crime elsewhere.
Forcing everyone to pass through the same door so you know who they are and can have a process is simplistic, yet reasonable and effective.
Trump should be the first to be shipped off to Mars or the Sun. Moron of a Republican to offer a government agency free reign.
Earth and Mars are between 50 and 400 million miles or so apart. Currently they are 150,000,000 miles apart.
So no, this is not a good window to get someone there, even if you are ok with launching tonight, going fast and not slowing down on the way down.
The distance fluctuates on a more or less annual basis. No, tonight wouldn't be a good time to launch, but Trump didn't ask his question yesterday; he asked in early 2017. That means that between the time he asked his question, and the end of his hypothetical second term, there would be some 6 or 7 ideal launch windows. Between time he asked his question and new years 2020 there would be at least 3 or 4.
As a matter of fact the closest approach will occur this year, so if NASA could somehow have put together a mission in 2 years, the alignment would have been ideal to do it a couple months from now.
Because unlike faith, science doesn't need you to believe to affect your life. See gravity.
The problem is that you're hiding the science behind your politics.
Did my math wrong; the closest approach was in 2018. There will be another one in 2020 that's just about as good. After that the closest approach starts to get further away for the next decade or so.
Doesn't change anything, just correcting the details.
Well then use the shielding already present. Send a team to turn an asteroid into a spaceship and send it to mars orbit.
And how do you plan to shield that team? I guess if you use Mexican miners you don't have to worry about it?
You could just look for caves. We already know of a few on Mars, so just land close to it.
Or old Lava tubes. We know about a few of those also.
Why dig when nature already did it for you? Build a base in an existing hole, then operate out of those if/when you decide to go construct habitats elsewhere.
No, you do not understand TrumpWorld. He isn't really interested about getting a man there and back again. If he gets marooned, Trump would be okay with that.
Lots of us are ok with that. The astronauts of Apollo 8 figured they had about a 50/50 chance of coming home alive, and they were willing to take that chance. I'm sure I'm not exactly a prime astronaut candidate, but if NASA offered me the opportunity to go to Mars with those odds, I'd take them up on it.
Life without risk is pretty fucking boring. I'd much rather die doing something amazing than live to be 100 by avoiding all risk.
Perfect; then he goes down in the history books as the first man to Tweet from the surface of Mars.
The military should be on the border laying landmines and setting up a free fire zone. Walls have historically not worked.
Historically, the times when walls haven't worked, militaries haven't either.
true, there is a security crisis: a bunch of heavily armed pricks keep on harrassing immigrants. they ought to be taken off the government payroll, disarmed, and sent off someplace where they won't constitute such a menace to the general public
And with that clue, he abandoned Iraq to ISIS, increased health care premiums 40% across the board, doubled the national debt, and increased racial tensions to levels not seen since the 60s. Trump is a genius at uniting the country in comparison.
Faith also doesn't need you to believe to affect your life. Just wait and see.
Those people often don't return the favor. You have to be able to handle that.
And when that _ACTUALLY_ happens we can send a platoon to deal with it. Till then, go back on your meds, and put down the pipe.
Also, stop being such a scared shitless pussy. Roaches are braver than you people.
Mandate and enforce with harse penalty e-Verify check of all employed labor
That's not true either. Their criminal element isn't above average... usually less. And yes, it usually is people looking for a better life.
And coming across the boarder to look for criminal opportunities has a very low ROI. Its actually FAR easier to fly in on tourist visas, disappear, and just stay. Why are there so many people who don't know this simple shit?
On the list of security issues... it's really really far down. A very small percentage of illegals walk across the boarder. You want to tackle illegal immigration, go round up all the people who overstayed (~75%) their legal visas. Or do better background checks at the ports where the vast majority of illegals come in... airports.
Obama and Bush actually held back and deported more illegals than Trump has in the same time. Trump has a long way to go to catch up. But then again, he is just all talk, Twitter, and tantrums. No actual progress.
b-b-but orange man bad!
That bureaucrat already thinks big. As a matter of fact, unlike Trump and yourself that bureaucrat has the ability and discipline to actually grasp differences in big and describing those differences in numbers. That is only one tiny part of the capabilities of that bureaucrat that far exceed those of Trump and yourself.
Prodding is a big thing in Morocco. They prod donkeys to get them to move. Prodding is pretty much high tech for those who practice it. And Morocco is pretty much a great example of the results of prodding.
You really think that NASA hasn't contemplated a Mars trip? You really think this is the first time NASA has heard someone that has lost touch with reality and thinks he can do more than he can.
Trump is now pretty much a lame duck. His popularity has tanked, he lost the House and everyone in Washington despises him. He'll be lucky to last two more years.
Filipinos, Indonesiams, and Nepalese built the middle east. And they have worse safety standards than Mezican miners. Expand your world view a bit!
Oh man, way too many comments to read. I think trump should merely ask for the most reasonable plan from NASA without worrying about a budget, ask them to choose a version that includes a lift off before end of 2020, and the story will tell itself. Imagine trump telling the story over the next six years and not having to ask for the story from somewhere else. Seriously what could be more literally exciting than a play by play on the journey to mars from the orange man himself?
Yes the caravan has been mostly fighting age males with few women and children. This is FN PRECISELY WHAT YOU EXPECT DURING AN FN INVASION YOU FN FOOLS!!!
It can be done, but he should not have asked that from NASA.
Changing the laws that allow him to remain in office until humans are on Mars is not area for NASA. Nevertheless those laws can be changed when funding is not an obstacle. However he might not be able to provide THAT kind of funding.
Now living people, that might be a bit more of a challenge...
Too busy looking at the pictures of children in cages taken in 2014 and 2015.
No. You are lying.
The criminal rate amongst immigrants is lower than the general population.
The criminal rate amongst illegal immigrants, ignoring that they are all technically criminals, is between 3x and 5x higher than the general population.
You purposefully conflate the distinction, knowing that you are lying. We understand that you have no actual rebuttal, and accept your tacit defeat.
Can't liberals post anything that isn't deceitful in some way? Apparently not.
You forgot to continue your TL;DR, so let's finish it for you:
Although the retirement was planned and roughly in line with what was expected out of STS without further upgrades, the planned replacement for the STS, the Constellation program was cancelled the year before STS concluded.
Who killed the replacement for the Space Shuttle? Barack Obama himself.
on February 1, 2010, President Barack Obama announced a proposal to cancel the program, effective with the passage of the U.S. 2011 fiscal year budget ... Obama signed the NASA Authorization Act of 2010 on October 11, which shelved the program.
So there it is, asshole. Bush set a program in place to replace the Space Shuttle with a newer, better system and Obama killed it. So try and stop with the fake news you fucking dishonest piece of shit.
You are breathtakingly wrong.
Sex trafficking across the border is not a Republican fabrication. It is a major crisis that impacts the most vulnerable women and children on earth, and is aided dramatically by an open border.
Forcing migrants to cross at a port of entry will save the lives of thousands of people whom you ostensibly pretend to want to help.
It's estimated that over 2,000 people cross illegally every day. Literally millions of people per year. This is not a "minor issue" in any capacity. Not even the Democrats are making this argument.
it's a reasonable way to prod a bureaucrat into thinking big.
Apparently not. It appears that it would be more difficult than getting a liberal to seek treatment for TDS.
Even if the two facts are unrelated causally, they're both still true. Trump is shameless, which may make him just the person needed to shake things up. Time will tell.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Sounds like someone is suddenly desparate for a huge success.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
The distance fluctuates on a more or less annual basis.
Actually, the harmonic between the two orbits is about 781 days. Plus, the closest approach distance isn't the same on every orbit, it's getting bigger at the moment and will continue to do so for many years (I can't do the maths for that one as quickly though)
More than twice that daily number is needed to make âliterally millionsâ ...
Yeah, that's what I thought.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Well, yes. He does have six months to come to Congress, and explain why it should go on longer.
On the other hand, there is NO minimum time... meaning, as the papers have pointed out, he can sign it, and the Speaker of the House can call for a vote then and there to end it.
Do you want me to like Trump?
Because this is how you get me to like Trump.
He asked, "But is there any way we could do it by the end of my first term?"
Lightfoot answers: Yes, do you have any "volunteer" in mind?
Hehehehehehe
The ISS is within Earth's Thermosphere, and still protected by Earth's magnetic field. Granted, human habitation on Mars would be in caves, which would effectively block cosmic radiation, so the transit flight is the only problem./
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Google "Florida Secretary of State Michael Ertel resigns after blackface images emerge". I'll wait. The (R), it doesn't just stand for Republican!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
You're looking for logic where none exists. Trump wasn't looking to place people on Mars as part of a great and noble march of humanity out into space. He wants ego gratification, sound bites, jingoism and porn star Fridays.
Your desire for space exploration isn't the issue here, no matter how much you want it to be. "Just take the money!" is the banner you take up. OK, what happened to Sean Spicer, who took the money. What happened to Anthony Scaramucci, who took the money? What happened to Bannon, Hicks, Mattis, Dubke, Flynn, Priebus, Price, Omarosa, Gorka, Porter, Tillerson, Shah, Zinke, Ayers, Kelly, Sessions, McGahn, Pruitt, Hagin, Waddell, Shadlow, Bossert, Anton, ...
You can say some of these people had "issues", or personal reasons, or they left for some unremarkable reason. All of them though? At what point do you stand back and say, 'there seems to be a larger issue here, some sort of pattern going on'?
If NASA engaged with Trump on a politically motivated and unsustainably short timeline and mission, it only ends badly for NASA. NASA will continue to exist long after Trump has left the scene and NASA needs credibility. Engaging with Trump like this damages NASA credibility. There's no upside to it.
Agreed. However, the practical maximum is a LOT faster than needed for a Hohmann transfer orbit. And as an added bonus the faster you go, the less distance you have to travel, since you don't have to travel nearly as far around the sun. (even as measured from the rotating Earth's-orbit frame we start in)
Besides which I've not heard any of the experts challenge Musk's claim that a 60-90 day transit time is practical to achieve. That tells me it's not even getting severely close to the practical limits for a rocket of that size. Heck, past Mars missions fall in the range of 158 to 333 days to make the trip, and they've all been flights directly from the Earth's surface, with no orbital refueling and all the much more drastic limitations that puts on the mission profile.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Which has what to do with the wall? I mean, I'd support a wall to keep Florida Man inside Florida, but ...
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Musk's 2016 proposal was 80-150 days using a 6 km/s interplanetary orbit injection delta-v. That follows the rule of thumb that (for a single stage) you can practically get dv equal to about twice your exhaust velocity. His plan is to burn pretty much ALL his dv on that transfer insertion and enter Mars' atmosphere at interplanetary speeds. The spaceship would then either stay there (as a habitat), or refuel at Mars for the return.
Refuelling at the destination (or not coming back) definitely lets you go faster. But since we're considering what might be close to possible on Trump's timeline, I don't think refuelling at Mars is in the cards.
Musk also said the transit time might go as low as 30 days in the distant future, but for that he must be imagining some new type of engine.
Ah, yes. If you're planning to carry enough fuel for the return trip, that does alter the picture quite dramatically. Though even without fuel manufacturing on Mars, there is the option of sending one or more fuel tanker rockets ahead on a much more fuel-efficient trajectory, so that you can refuel in Mars orbit, both before landing and again before returning to Earth. You can even still use the atmosphere for braking to orbital speeds.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Z^-1
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Lol retard
Definitely. Unfortunately there's only one viable launch window (in 2020) so you'd have to send your tanker and your crewed ship at about the same time. That more or less doubles the chance of failure, since two ships have to work correctly instead of just one, and it probably wouldn't be worth the week or so you could save in transit.
For a sane plan, not tied to the US election schedule, you'd send the tankers (or fuel production facilities) ahead of time, make sure they were working correctly, then launch the crew in a subsequent window. Most of the Mars plans through the years have included something like that.
Obama and other officials subsequently restored development of the Orion capsule, the Ares I lift stage, and a heavy launch vehicle to replace the planned Ares V.
The manned space program may have been delayed, but it's totally wrong to claim that Obama shut down the space program altogether.
Eventually the situation will correct itself
Yes, it will. America will collapse.