Now I can download a whole new kernel, go through the mess of installing it with weird hardware, and get no new features for what I'm running!
Not to sound too cynical, but excitement over 0.0.1 upgrades is a little silly, considering that lots of people are still happily chugging away with 2.2, and 2.4 won't really help them.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Send to her! Get your LUGs and UUGs and SAGEs and whatever else computer group (we'll even take the MUG people) in for this! We're much better off if we get several million people in on this, it'll be much more obvious by the numbers alone that we actually have a position and are not some group of apathetic weaklings that are willing to be tromped over!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... and it'll be much harder for someone to break into a box and rifle the logs before someone else can look at them. It's not a guarantee that the system will be safe and secure, but it could be a nice deterrent to someone hacking and thinking that they can just clean the logs of their activities later...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... I can honestly say that fo the most part I hate the things. a coworker of mine (when I worked at a computer field service company) was part owner of his brother's company, which was also a field service company. My coworker had been working for the same company as me for a long time, but only because his brother's company wasn't quite strong enough to provide the income he needed. Eventually our boss (the owner) asked my coworker to sign a non-compete, he said that he had to have his lawyer look it over, tensions grew, etc, until ironically conditions at the company I worked for grew so bad that he quit, went to work for his brother, and several of the customers willingly found him for their computer needs, on their own. My boss tried to sue, and lost, because of no non-compete, customers who explained their reasoning in court, etc, and he wasted several thousand in legal fees to enforce something that really can't be enforced very well in Arizona.
Because Arizona is a "right to work" state, there's not nearly as much that a company can do to bar someone from using their skills elsewhere, the former employer isn't even allowed to overly badmouth the employee when a new prospective employer call them, the old employer can be sued for slander. It's much more sane here for the worker.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... and displaying this page on the second display, I'm quite happy with it. I've not played with output to my TV, but I plan to soon. Also, since the version of the drivers that I downloaded from Matrox was from late january, I'm not exactly worried about downloading a new X for features that might already be implemented in my driver.
Regarding the drivers being closed source, they are perfectly entitled to do that if they would like, I'm personally glad that a large company is providing such good support for such a new product. If they want to make it closed source but keep the development going, I'm all for it. If someone else wants to engineer their own drivers that are GPLed, that's great too, but in several respects I'd rather have the hardware manufacturer's code than something that was reverse engineered, because the manufacturer is less likely to be missing important pieces. I've been running X for a couple of weeks straight without switching out, and I haven't had any problems. They are doing a wonderful job.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
While operating the craft is relatively expensive (compared to driving a car or eating lunch) the fact that it's already there and still working is a really good sign to the machine's manufacture. That $9 million is pocket change compared to more complex operations that are engaged in on a regular basis, and is nothing compared to defense (read war standby) preparations. We need to do more like this, missions that are not hype and may not have immediate popular return, but allow for real science to have a chance of prevailing.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'd have to agree, we don't do enough to them. One thing to keep in mind, the people who are true spammers are only a handful of people, compared to the general internet using populace, and they have very specific, obvious habits with regard to internet account signups and cancellings, and their traffic patterns could be detected and logged if ISPs want to. All we have to do is mandate that ISPs, when notified that someone is spamming through them, notify the FBI or US Marshalls or some law enforcement agency given jurisdiction, and then the law enforcement agency take it from there. I think that we should make them financially responsible for ALL of the bandwidth they consume, disk space they use, and electricity their crap uses, and THEN take it out of their hide.
This all wouldn't have been necessary if we'd taken the first spammers and dragged them out into the streets, beat them bloody, tarred them, and rolled them in AOL CDs or something, something which would make news everywhere and really act as a deterrence...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Instead of "maybe you'd drive better if you shoved that phone up your ass", we'll start seeing ones to the effect of "maybe you'd drive better if we wiped our asses with your phone" or something nice like that...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I've been using SuSE Linux for a while, and the reason that I'm switching to Debian is that I'm sick and tired of dealing with libraries, differing versions of RPM, and many different RPM packages wanting to place stuff in different places. I like the fact that 'apt-get install ' will check my dependencies, FIX my dependencies, and run configuration tools (if set up for such) for the packages installed. Even if the RPM library database is 'better', it still doesn't FIX the dependencies for me, and I don't feel like downloading 15 or more files, figuring out the install order, figuring out the dependencies for THESE files, etc, when I can get a utility that will generally do it all in one swoul foop. Yes, I'm lazy, but if you look at the history of these POSIX compliant OSes, that's generally been the consensus (i.e. two letter long commands).
Another gripe I have (since I'm doing such a wonderful job already) is that the differing versions of the RPM tool are really starting to get annoying. I've got a SuSE 7.0 based box, and it seems like most of the RPMs pointed out by rpmfind.net just don't work, being too new of a version. I've tried to retrieve newer versions of RPM, but some moron has rpm'ed them with THAT VERSION OF RPM, and I can't extract it! grrrrr
</rant>
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'd hate to be a troubleshooter for that, it'd be like in "Paranoia" when the dome cracked, and they were sent to investigate and destroy the large yellow thing in the sky...
But wouldn't it suck to be sittin' there and suddenly find the seat a bit too warm?
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
If I had ever endorsed Linux anywhere, I'd be ashamed now to be connected to people like those.
why? I don't use their slant on Linux. And honestly in reference to Microsoft, if they'd kept things at a level more like that of Windows 95 before trying to go megalomaniac on destroying other companies, I'd probably not even really detest them.
Red Hat Software has done some really good things for Linux. They made a relatively easy to install version, developed one of the better (not the best IMHO, but so?) package management tools, and they support their product. In short, they take all of these wonderful little things that people write, bundle them all up and get them working together relatively well. Back in 1995 when Microsoft was not concerned with markets and domineering (at least as overtly as now), I liked their stuff. Windows 95 (no bloody a, b, or c) was not a horrible product, especially for someone like me at that time who didn't have very much background. Its interface was decent, it had faux-3d dialogues and window borders that looked really classy, and since I didn't leave the computer on at night, it was irrevelant how much it crashed. Now, this is a different story, with them tiring of their UI and integrating a web browser into the OS Kernel, as well as their attacking and destroying other companies who actually do build good products, I would very much like for them to be slapped around and disciplined. I doubt it'll happen, but I think they've gone past their heyday. The exec who made the comments recently is proof of that. They won't evolve, so they're trying to force all of us to stay back.
Back to what I was originally hinting at, if you don't like something that the Red Hat people say, then Don't use Red Hat. Remember, they are a company, and there are other companies too, like SuSE, VA, etc, and if you really don't want corporate, go Slackware or Debian, or roll your own. I don't see what good trashing on others who work hard to deliver a product is going to do, but if one doesn't care, oh well.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
It's OpenSSH, which is a completely different set of ASCII codes! how can the people who make "ssh" even get close to confusing "OpenSSH" with their product? it's even got a different MD5 sum and different source code!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
It was called Xenix... They then stopped development and sold it to the Santa Cruz Organization. Now, it's really obselete but still somewhat useful in the right circumstances (like driving lots and lots of RS232 connections).
Even Apple is doing more good development at this point that Microsoft, and that's really sad...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Well, I'm glad to see that the police did at least go in for some reason that wasn't just 'we don't like the page'. It's really sad though, that it's gotten to the point that many of us feel that we have to be that paranoid with regard to laws and law enforcement, and that it seems that much of law enforcement is very behind as far as technical knowledge goes. I'm still wondering why it wasn't handled internally though. At my university, if a student is suspected of breaking the rules of the school with regard to the network, his physical feed is unplugged from the other end. (Ironically, they aren't usually smart enough to cut access by IP, so the student simply has to find another outlet, but oh bloody well.) The thing is that they don't usually need to call the police in, and I'm not aware of any instances where that was necessary.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'm not a very good coder, but maybe some thing that has to be done to the PPC version breaks something in the normal distro? I'm using a Debian M68K version on my Centris, and it's not the stock kernel, there is too much weird stuff. If the mods break the normal kernel, I think it would make sense to not include the changes.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
they were big in schools because they had the pretty pictures before the PCs did, and because the GOVERNMENT subsidized their purchase... those "register receipts for apples" programs were not paid for by Apple, but by taxpayers...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
You neglect one very important point... CDE can be configured for use to be very, very easy to use. In fact, the configs that I mentioned are from something like 1994, and have not really been changed since, and they do work. I don't have to modify anything to get the system to work, and once I show a Mac user or a Windows user which icons are which, they're generally very pleased. They go back, because of what they have at home, but it's not all that big of a brainer...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
while there are some nice elements of System/MacOS, I find that using an OS designed for 3rd Graders/Grandmothers a bit annoying. I dealt with too many problems on Apple's Mac OS in the 6.0-7.5 levels to want to think about their old-designed, cooperative multitasking OS, and while this may sound like a dis on it's creator, it is. At school I often use HP Terminals running CDE, and while not perfect, they're not too much harder than the MacOS, I click on the little pictures at the bottom, and the apps launch. I click the close box, and the app goes away. If grannies and 3rd graders want an easier to use OS, fine, but don't expect me to really care about it...
And who says that UNIX can't be made at least somewhat usable to Joe Schmoe?
</rant>
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Of course human cells and electronics have been linked together... if there are any geeks like me in California (which there are no doubt), then one has to have been in his computer room and gotten assimilated by falling computer parts while the ground was shaking...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Slashdot Mirror
Now I can download a whole new kernel, go through the mess of installing it with weird hardware, and get no new features for what I'm running!
Not to sound too cynical, but excitement over 0.0.1 upgrades is a little silly, considering that lots of people are still happily chugging away with 2.2, and 2.4 won't really help them.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Hey! at least I read enough of the article to find out there was an email to send to, unlike many of my fellow Slashdot trolls...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Okay... I need to learn how pronouns work...
I got confused because when I was in high school, there was this really cute girl named Jody...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Well, I had a question answered by Andre Hedrick, which directly affects me a lot more than some dusty old congressman!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Send to her! Get your LUGs and UUGs and SAGEs and whatever else computer group (we'll even take the MUG people) in for this! We're much better off if we get several million people in on this, it'll be much more obvious by the numbers alone that we actually have a position and are not some group of apathetic weaklings that are willing to be tromped over!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
How'd that work with the women?
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... and it'll be much harder for someone to break into a box and rifle the logs before someone else can look at them. It's not a guarantee that the system will be safe and secure, but it could be a nice deterrent to someone hacking and thinking that they can just clean the logs of their activities later...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... I can honestly say that fo the most part I hate the things. a coworker of mine (when I worked at a computer field service company) was part owner of his brother's company, which was also a field service company. My coworker had been working for the same company as me for a long time, but only because his brother's company wasn't quite strong enough to provide the income he needed. Eventually our boss (the owner) asked my coworker to sign a non-compete, he said that he had to have his lawyer look it over, tensions grew, etc, until ironically conditions at the company I worked for grew so bad that he quit, went to work for his brother, and several of the customers willingly found him for their computer needs, on their own. My boss tried to sue, and lost, because of no non-compete, customers who explained their reasoning in court, etc, and he wasted several thousand in legal fees to enforce something that really can't be enforced very well in Arizona.
Because Arizona is a "right to work" state, there's not nearly as much that a company can do to bar someone from using their skills elsewhere, the former employer isn't even allowed to overly badmouth the employee when a new prospective employer call them, the old employer can be sued for slander. It's much more sane here for the worker.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Personally, I don't read in the can, I want to get outta there as fast as I feasibly can!
Of course, if it were a Microsoft magazine, at least I'd have SOME use for it in the restroom... <grin>
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
... and displaying this page on the second display, I'm quite happy with it. I've not played with output to my TV, but I plan to soon. Also, since the version of the drivers that I downloaded from Matrox was from late january, I'm not exactly worried about downloading a new X for features that might already be implemented in my driver.
Regarding the drivers being closed source, they are perfectly entitled to do that if they would like, I'm personally glad that a large company is providing such good support for such a new product. If they want to make it closed source but keep the development going, I'm all for it. If someone else wants to engineer their own drivers that are GPLed, that's great too, but in several respects I'd rather have the hardware manufacturer's code than something that was reverse engineered, because the manufacturer is less likely to be missing important pieces. I've been running X for a couple of weeks straight without switching out, and I haven't had any problems. They are doing a wonderful job.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
While operating the craft is relatively expensive (compared to driving a car or eating lunch) the fact that it's already there and still working is a really good sign to the machine's manufacture. That $9 million is pocket change compared to more complex operations that are engaged in on a regular basis, and is nothing compared to defense (read war standby) preparations. We need to do more like this, missions that are not hype and may not have immediate popular return, but allow for real science to have a chance of prevailing.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'd have to agree, we don't do enough to them. One thing to keep in mind, the people who are true spammers are only a handful of people, compared to the general internet using populace, and they have very specific, obvious habits with regard to internet account signups and cancellings, and their traffic patterns could be detected and logged if ISPs want to. All we have to do is mandate that ISPs, when notified that someone is spamming through them, notify the FBI or US Marshalls or some law enforcement agency given jurisdiction, and then the law enforcement agency take it from there. I think that we should make them financially responsible for ALL of the bandwidth they consume, disk space they use, and electricity their crap uses, and THEN take it out of their hide.
This all wouldn't have been necessary if we'd taken the first spammers and dragged them out into the streets, beat them bloody, tarred them, and rolled them in AOL CDs or something, something which would make news everywhere and really act as a deterrence...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Instead of "maybe you'd drive better if you shoved that phone up your ass", we'll start seeing ones to the effect of "maybe you'd drive better if we wiped our asses with your phone" or something nice like that...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I've been using SuSE Linux for a while, and the reason that I'm switching to Debian is that I'm sick and tired of dealing with libraries, differing versions of RPM, and many different RPM packages wanting to place stuff in different places. I like the fact that 'apt-get install ' will check my dependencies, FIX my dependencies, and run configuration tools (if set up for such) for the packages installed. Even if the RPM library database is 'better', it still doesn't FIX the dependencies for me, and I don't feel like downloading 15 or more files, figuring out the install order, figuring out the dependencies for THESE files, etc, when I can get a utility that will generally do it all in one swoul foop. Yes, I'm lazy, but if you look at the history of these POSIX compliant OSes, that's generally been the consensus (i.e. two letter long commands).
Another gripe I have (since I'm doing such a wonderful job already) is that the differing versions of the RPM tool are really starting to get annoying. I've got a SuSE 7.0 based box, and it seems like most of the RPMs pointed out by rpmfind.net just don't work, being too new of a version. I've tried to retrieve newer versions of RPM, but some moron has rpm'ed them with THAT VERSION OF RPM, and I can't extract it! grrrrr
</rant>
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I mean, geez... We already have Blinkie on The Simpsons, and that wasn't even INTENTIONAL genetic engineering!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'd hate to be a troubleshooter for that, it'd be like in "Paranoia" when the dome cracked, and they were sent to investigate and destroy the large yellow thing in the sky...
But wouldn't it suck to be sittin' there and suddenly find the seat a bit too warm?
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
If I had ever endorsed Linux anywhere, I'd be ashamed now to be connected to people like those.
why? I don't use their slant on Linux. And honestly in reference to Microsoft, if they'd kept things at a level more like that of Windows 95 before trying to go megalomaniac on destroying other companies, I'd probably not even really detest them.
Red Hat Software has done some really good things for Linux. They made a relatively easy to install version, developed one of the better (not the best IMHO, but so?) package management tools, and they support their product. In short, they take all of these wonderful little things that people write, bundle them all up and get them working together relatively well. Back in 1995 when Microsoft was not concerned with markets and domineering (at least as overtly as now), I liked their stuff. Windows 95 (no bloody a, b, or c) was not a horrible product, especially for someone like me at that time who didn't have very much background. Its interface was decent, it had faux-3d dialogues and window borders that looked really classy, and since I didn't leave the computer on at night, it was irrevelant how much it crashed. Now, this is a different story, with them tiring of their UI and integrating a web browser into the OS Kernel, as well as their attacking and destroying other companies who actually do build good products, I would very much like for them to be slapped around and disciplined. I doubt it'll happen, but I think they've gone past their heyday. The exec who made the comments recently is proof of that. They won't evolve, so they're trying to force all of us to stay back.
Back to what I was originally hinting at, if you don't like something that the Red Hat people say, then Don't use Red Hat. Remember, they are a company, and there are other companies too, like SuSE, VA, etc, and if you really don't want corporate, go Slackware or Debian, or roll your own. I don't see what good trashing on others who work hard to deliver a product is going to do, but if one doesn't care, oh well.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
It's OpenSSH, which is a completely different set of ASCII codes! how can the people who make "ssh" even get close to confusing "OpenSSH" with their product? it's even got a different MD5 sum and different source code!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
It was called Xenix... They then stopped development and sold it to the Santa Cruz Organization. Now, it's really obselete but still somewhat useful in the right circumstances (like driving lots and lots of RS232 connections).
Even Apple is doing more good development at this point that Microsoft, and that's really sad...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Well, I'm glad to see that the police did at least go in for some reason that wasn't just 'we don't like the page'. It's really sad though, that it's gotten to the point that many of us feel that we have to be that paranoid with regard to laws and law enforcement, and that it seems that much of law enforcement is very behind as far as technical knowledge goes. I'm still wondering why it wasn't handled internally though. At my university, if a student is suspected of breaking the rules of the school with regard to the network, his physical feed is unplugged from the other end. (Ironically, they aren't usually smart enough to cut access by IP, so the student simply has to find another outlet, but oh bloody well.) The thing is that they don't usually need to call the police in, and I'm not aware of any instances where that was necessary.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
I'm not a very good coder, but maybe some thing that has to be done to the PPC version breaks something in the normal distro? I'm using a Debian M68K version on my Centris, and it's not the stock kernel, there is too much weird stuff. If the mods break the normal kernel, I think it would make sense to not include the changes.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
they were big in schools because they had the pretty pictures before the PCs did, and because the GOVERNMENT subsidized their purchase... those "register receipts for apples" programs were not paid for by Apple, but by taxpayers...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
You neglect one very important point... CDE can be configured for use to be very, very easy to use. In fact, the configs that I mentioned are from something like 1994, and have not really been changed since, and they do work. I don't have to modify anything to get the system to work, and once I show a Mac user or a Windows user which icons are which, they're generally very pleased. They go back, because of what they have at home, but it's not all that big of a brainer...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
while there are some nice elements of System/MacOS, I find that using an OS designed for 3rd Graders/Grandmothers a bit annoying. I dealt with too many problems on Apple's Mac OS in the 6.0-7.5 levels to want to think about their old-designed, cooperative multitasking OS, and while this may sound like a dis on it's creator, it is. At school I often use HP Terminals running CDE, and while not perfect, they're not too much harder than the MacOS, I click on the little pictures at the bottom, and the apps launch. I click the close box, and the app goes away. If grannies and 3rd graders want an easier to use OS, fine, but don't expect me to really care about it...
And who says that UNIX can't be made at least somewhat usable to Joe Schmoe?
</rant>
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Of course human cells and electronics have been linked together... if there are any geeks like me in California (which there are no doubt), then one has to have been in his computer room and gotten assimilated by falling computer parts while the ground was shaking...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."