I'll rephrase it right back to cutting off noses to spite faces. Feel free to go drink the RMS ethics Kool-aid, but please don't cripple those of us who like working systems instead of half baked political ideology driven designs with your poison.
It's under 3.c): "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." I'm not a lawyer, so I can't know what it means, but I interpret the spirit of it as "give me the build system parts to make it go."
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of open source. I just really dislike the extremes the FSF has gone to to make sure that they can stomp anyone that touches code in a way they don't condone. It's become pretty clear from things like the Mepis fiasco that even people with the best of intentions will get eagerly screwed by GNU. Much less draconian licenses for things like Apache haven't had the squelching effect on open source that GPL advocates claim, and they aren't nearly as scary to business. I'm pretty firmly on the Linus side of the "make things work"/"burn the infidels!" split.
The GPL covers a lot more than just source code, it also covers reproducibility and crossdevelopment toolchains. When you distribute tiny embedded devices instead of CDs it's entirely impractical to include all your source code and your multistage build chain with them.
And actually, yes, the proprietary software we use allows unlimited distribution of binaries we produce using it without entangling us into having to distribute the source and build chain years later. We're not distributing their executable, we're distributing ours, and it's only the GPL that makes that dangerous.
There most certainly are requirements for 'using it', for values of 'using it' that most developers don't think much about. As part of my job, I need to make sure my developers don't tie IP restricted code into kernel modules or link it against non LGPL libraries. I need to make sure that every part of every distro gets checked over to make sure that version is licensed under v2 and not v3 because v3 isn't approved yet and probably won't be. I need to make sure that ten years from now, I can exactly reproduce every build on every piece of hardware anyone in my company's ever done, even one-off research projects or test builds, just in case an old piece of software or hardware that contains it somehow gets distributed or replaced, and someone demands the source. I have to make sure that anyone else who's still here ten years from now knows that we're legally required to maintain all this ancient cruft in working order because the GPL is hanging over our head like the sword of Damocles.
This is all known stuff, it's scary complicated, but at least I understand it. There are unknowns and grey areas with the GPL that scare me even more. If some forgotten mid-development cycle binary produced by code that was never checked in and only existed for as long as it took a developer to fix a bug and compile it again gets 'distributed' as part of a legal discovery process that grabs the contents of every hard disk in the company, do we get to go out of business because we can't comply with a GPL demand? Maybe. Heck if I know. If I asked our lawyers about it things would not end well for Linux in my company.
For a large company that distributes very long life devices that run various Linux distros and change significantly over time, works with many third parties for research and development, and distributes internationally, working with the GPL is a HUGE pain. When it comes right down to it, there's no way to use GPL software and be sure you won't be sued out of existence someday for misplacing decades old source code or toolchains and then shipping out a dust covered replacement part from a distant warehouse. I've been using Linux professionally since 1995 and it makes me hate the GPL more every day. It's a shame it won out over OSes that don't take pride in how much destruction their lawyers cause.
The GPL is no less horrid than the rest of the copyright system it relies on.
Toss on a couple kids ($57,000/year for Google daycare, I don't know what a realistic cost is) and an average house (484,000 median statewide price last year, making a mortgage payment very close to 3,000 without property taxes or insurance, probably closer to 5,000/month all inclusive), assume they pay social security, health care, and state or local taxes instead of just national (33% by itself) for a gross to net drop that's closer to 50% than 35% and that's a family of four living on $8,000 a year for everything but shelter. $250,000 a year isn't eat-the-rich money unless you're in the Midwest.
I humble call shenanigans on your implausible "rich" cutoff line and submit $25,000/year as the cutoff value for who should be punished. It makes about as much sense.
I tend to agree. The government should exist to do things the private sector can't do well. Roads, defense, epidemic control, foreign relations, care of the helpless. Prevention of the Tragedy of the Commons type stuff. The government shouldn't be around to take money from people that work and give it to those that refuse to. That's not a myth or a strawman - it's my cousin. It's a shame there isn't a party for socially open, small government sorts.
What's happened is that the hugely fractured public opinion on social policy has had more of its sides exposed than what you're presenting in your description of the halcyon days of yore. Plenty of people still care, but caring doesn't translate into blind faith in government handouts being the enlightened way forward. Charitable donations accounted for about 2.2% of the GDP last year, and Americans volunteered tens of billions of hours. Public approval for Congress is at a record low of 14%. There's a world of difference between taking care of the least fortunate and trusting the government to take your money and do it for you. The same government that's running the war in Iraq, the torture camps, the blah blah blah horrible thing of the day we're exposed to until we're numb. Do you really expect people to massively distrust the government and simultaneously give it money out of the goodness of their hearts because they know the government will spend it to do more good than the people would? Memories of the government response to Katrina are still fresh in the mind of the nation, so don't expect people to eagerly fork over more to the government for a job well done.
The American Dream didn't use to be a NFL franchise and a fleet of yachts, it used to be that you could live a good life and your children could live a better one. There is upward mobility in America, but if all you're looking for is a dramatic jump from the bottom to the top, with the government taking care of all the unfortunates so you don't have to bother, you'll never see it.
A 90% tax rate on income over a certain level would be even better if people just had to give that money away and the government couldn't touch a dime of it.
"Income redistribution" is the money that goes to my cousin, a college graduate who lives on public assistance because she decided she wanted a baby and didn't want to have to work. She's never had a job in her life and brags that she'll never have to. I didn't believe it existed until it happened in my own family, and it's entirely switched around my political perspective.
> Just look where the industry and big corporations have situated us. Without proper safety research in antibiotics, we now have to cope with drug-resistant "superbacteria". Well, these bacteria didn't exist 50 years ago!
If people who fear nanotech also think we shouldn't have produced antibiotics 50 years ago because of all the horrible consequences, or that antibiotics are some sort of greedy corporate conspiracy, I'm really glad they're being ignored. Making sure nanotech is used well and that safety concerns are addressed as soon as they're found is important, but if nanotech is blocked the way antibiotics apparently should have been, a whole lot of people will die needlessly. People who have legitimate concerns about nanotech should do their best to differentiate their voices from this sort of thing, otherwise the who mess of em are going to get ignored harder than a 9/11 truther at an OPEC convention.
I've tried this on an ETX board with built in CF as IDE. Windows installs fine but won't boot. The file system shows up and looks bootable when I look at the card, and Gentoo boots off the card. I need to do more digging to figure out what magic bits Windows needs set to boot from CF. Could be as simple as forcing the card to Fixed Disk mode and PIO, but I'm not sure if that's possible with all cards.
If you've had it 'just work', I'd love to hear how you did it.
I've spent quality time trying to get this to work, and it's really a huge pain. I've even managed to make Windows install to a CF card it's viewing as an IDE disk, but I can't get it to boot from it. There really is some magic there.
As a radiation worker at a tech company, I'm both amused and horrified that my required "don't talk to women" sexual harassment class was much longer than my required "don't stick your head in there" radiation safety class, but they both covered pretty much the same themes.
The command line build tools are now headless Eclipse, which is eyegougingly frustrating. I just spend days trying to figure out why it was randomly giving Java Null Pointer exceptions while trying to do imports through the automated build system, but it won't fail while I'm running it manually or with debug tools attached. Flaming. Pile. Of. Poo.
I can't wait to replace it with Linux, at least when that fails to compile code, it will probably do so every time and in the same place. Having the build system just run make a few times in a row so it might finish does not make me glow with joy.
Here's a good starting point to minmax a druid. Poke around on the charop boards - druids really are far beyond non-caster classes for raw combat and at least in the running compared to clerics and wizards for batman-grade utility.
Slashdot Mirror
I'll rephrase it right back to cutting off noses to spite faces. Feel free to go drink the RMS ethics Kool-aid, but please don't cripple those of us who like working systems instead of half baked political ideology driven designs with your poison.
Putty isn't acceptable for significant Linux development.
> Which part of the GPL says that?
It's under 3.c):
"For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." I'm not a lawyer, so I can't know what it means, but I interpret the spirit of it as "give me the build system parts to make it go."
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of open source. I just really dislike the extremes the FSF has gone to to make sure that they can stomp anyone that touches code in a way they don't condone. It's become pretty clear from things like the Mepis fiasco that even people with the best of intentions will get eagerly screwed by GNU. Much less draconian licenses for things like Apache haven't had the squelching effect on open source that GPL advocates claim, and they aren't nearly as scary to business. I'm pretty firmly on the Linus side of the "make things work"/"burn the infidels!" split.
The GPL covers a lot more than just source code, it also covers reproducibility and crossdevelopment toolchains. When you distribute tiny embedded devices instead of CDs it's entirely impractical to include all your source code and your multistage build chain with them.
And actually, yes, the proprietary software we use allows unlimited distribution of binaries we produce using it without entangling us into having to distribute the source and build chain years later. We're not distributing their executable, we're distributing ours, and it's only the GPL that makes that dangerous.
There most certainly are requirements for 'using it', for values of 'using it' that most developers don't think much about. As part of my job, I need to make sure my developers don't tie IP restricted code into kernel modules or link it against non LGPL libraries. I need to make sure that every part of every distro gets checked over to make sure that version is licensed under v2 and not v3 because v3 isn't approved yet and probably won't be. I need to make sure that ten years from now, I can exactly reproduce every build on every piece of hardware anyone in my company's ever done, even one-off research projects or test builds, just in case an old piece of software or hardware that contains it somehow gets distributed or replaced, and someone demands the source. I have to make sure that anyone else who's still here ten years from now knows that we're legally required to maintain all this ancient cruft in working order because the GPL is hanging over our head like the sword of Damocles.
This is all known stuff, it's scary complicated, but at least I understand it. There are unknowns and grey areas with the GPL that scare me even more. If some forgotten mid-development cycle binary produced by code that was never checked in and only existed for as long as it took a developer to fix a bug and compile it again gets 'distributed' as part of a legal discovery process that grabs the contents of every hard disk in the company, do we get to go out of business because we can't comply with a GPL demand? Maybe. Heck if I know. If I asked our lawyers about it things would not end well for Linux in my company.
For a large company that distributes very long life devices that run various Linux distros and change significantly over time, works with many third parties for research and development, and distributes internationally, working with the GPL is a HUGE pain. When it comes right down to it, there's no way to use GPL software and be sure you won't be sued out of existence someday for misplacing decades old source code or toolchains and then shipping out a dust covered replacement part from a distant warehouse. I've been using Linux professionally since 1995 and it makes me hate the GPL more every day. It's a shame it won out over OSes that don't take pride in how much destruction their lawyers cause.
The GPL is no less horrid than the rest of the copyright system it relies on.
Toss on a couple kids ($57,000/year for Google daycare, I don't know what a realistic cost is) and an average house (484,000 median statewide price last year, making a mortgage payment very close to 3,000 without property taxes or insurance, probably closer to 5,000/month all inclusive), assume they pay social security, health care, and state or local taxes instead of just national (33% by itself) for a gross to net drop that's closer to 50% than 35% and that's a family of four living on $8,000 a year for everything but shelter. $250,000 a year isn't eat-the-rich money unless you're in the Midwest.
I humble call shenanigans on your implausible "rich" cutoff line and submit $25,000/year as the cutoff value for who should be punished. It makes about as much sense.
whooosh.
I tend to agree. The government should exist to do things the private sector can't do well. Roads, defense, epidemic control, foreign relations, care of the helpless. Prevention of the Tragedy of the Commons type stuff. The government shouldn't be around to take money from people that work and give it to those that refuse to. That's not a myth or a strawman - it's my cousin. It's a shame there isn't a party for socially open, small government sorts.
Sucks to be a family in California or New York. Good policy for DINCs in Kansas though.
What's happened is that the hugely fractured public opinion on social policy has had more of its sides exposed than what you're presenting in your description of the halcyon days of yore. Plenty of people still care, but caring doesn't translate into blind faith in government handouts being the enlightened way forward. Charitable donations accounted for about 2.2% of the GDP last year, and Americans volunteered tens of billions of hours. Public approval for Congress is at a record low of 14%. There's a world of difference between taking care of the least fortunate and trusting the government to take your money and do it for you. The same government that's running the war in Iraq, the torture camps, the blah blah blah horrible thing of the day we're exposed to until we're numb. Do you really expect people to massively distrust the government and simultaneously give it money out of the goodness of their hearts because they know the government will spend it to do more good than the people would? Memories of the government response to Katrina are still fresh in the mind of the nation, so don't expect people to eagerly fork over more to the government for a job well done.
The American Dream didn't use to be a NFL franchise and a fleet of yachts, it used to be that you could live a good life and your children could live a better one. There is upward mobility in America, but if all you're looking for is a dramatic jump from the bottom to the top, with the government taking care of all the unfortunates so you don't have to bother, you'll never see it.
A 90% tax rate on income over a certain level would be even better if people just had to give that money away and the government couldn't touch a dime of it.
"Income redistribution" is the money that goes to my cousin, a college graduate who lives on public assistance because she decided she wanted a baby and didn't want to have to work. She's never had a job in her life and brags that she'll never have to. I didn't believe it existed until it happened in my own family, and it's entirely switched around my political perspective.
Well then, we obviously need to do extensive safety research on this "carbon burning" before we let children put it in their mouths.
> Just look where the industry and big corporations have situated us. Without proper safety research in antibiotics, we now have to cope with drug-resistant "superbacteria". Well, these bacteria didn't exist 50 years ago!
If people who fear nanotech also think we shouldn't have produced antibiotics 50 years ago because of all the horrible consequences, or that antibiotics are some sort of greedy corporate conspiracy, I'm really glad they're being ignored. Making sure nanotech is used well and that safety concerns are addressed as soon as they're found is important, but if nanotech is blocked the way antibiotics apparently should have been, a whole lot of people will die needlessly. People who have legitimate concerns about nanotech should do their best to differentiate their voices from this sort of thing, otherwise the who mess of em are going to get ignored harder than a 9/11 truther at an OPEC convention.
I've tried this on an ETX board with built in CF as IDE. Windows installs fine but won't boot. The file system shows up and looks bootable when I look at the card, and Gentoo boots off the card. I need to do more digging to figure out what magic bits Windows needs set to boot from CF. Could be as simple as forcing the card to Fixed Disk mode and PIO, but I'm not sure if that's possible with all cards.
If you've had it 'just work', I'd love to hear how you did it.
I've spent quality time trying to get this to work, and it's really a huge pain. I've even managed to make Windows install to a CF card it's viewing as an IDE disk, but I can't get it to boot from it. There really is some magic there.
I'm sorry, the "Linux Sucks!" thread is over there.
> There is far more customizability now than in 3e.
You, sir, are out of your mind.
You're missing the "one round" vs "full round" action fun for stuff like summoning.
As a radiation worker at a tech company, I'm both amused and horrified that my required "don't talk to women" sexual harassment class was much longer than my required "don't stick your head in there" radiation safety class, but they both covered pretty much the same themes.
The command line build tools are now headless Eclipse, which is eyegougingly frustrating. I just spend days trying to figure out why it was randomly giving Java Null Pointer exceptions while trying to do imports through the automated build system, but it won't fail while I'm running it manually or with debug tools attached. Flaming. Pile. Of. Poo.
I can't wait to replace it with Linux, at least when that fails to compile code, it will probably do so every time and in the same place. Having the build system just run make a few times in a row so it might finish does not make me glow with joy.
Wikipedia, kinda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Foster_(Illinois_politician)#Personal_background
Also, he's in the cube across from me.
You do know his son does Linux embedded systems, right? ;-)
Well, Bill's up for reelection in just 8 months, so now's your chance.
Seriously, he's a good guy.
Here's a good starting point to minmax a druid. Poke around on the charop boards - druids really are far beyond non-caster classes for raw combat and at least in the running compared to clerics and wizards for batman-grade utility.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400
For tabletop roleplaying fun, slots are AWESOME!
Three campaigns later, we were still teasing someone about insisting that when they changed into a will-o-wisp they still had a wand slot.