I think we've both put our view out there, and we are not going to convince each other here. That said, I do agree with your point about using the right words for a situation. I did not. I should not have said all the while I'm stealing songs I know that it is wrong, I should have said that I know that it is illegal. You are also right, I shouldn't have put that in there if I didn't want you to comment on it.
That said, we are still not discussing my morality or your definition of my character. We are discussing the definition of copyright infringement versus theft. To me, when it comes down to it, if you download music that you have not paid for or do not have some other right to (such as fair use), you are stealing it.
Even you say "make use of" rather than "take". Therefore, it is not "stealing". It is "illegal copying" and is wrong, but it is not the same thing.
Lets return to the original definition of steal - "To take (the property of another) without right or permission." Regardless of how you take the property, if you do it without the right or permission of the owner of that property, you stole it.
I agree that you cannot own or possess an idea in the same way that you can own or possess a physical item, such as a pencil. You cannot keep someone from using an idea in the same way you can keep them from using your pencil. But just because you can't touch it doesn't mean its not real. You can't touch an idea and that idea is real. You can't touch the law and the law is real. The law says a person can have ownership of an idea through copyright or patents. I agree with you on how copyright law should be, but as far as how it is, when you violate copyright by "taking" or "making use of" something that you do not have a right to, you are stealing.
Your playing on semantics here. You can twist words to make them seem to hold up your point of view, but when it comes down to it, its as simple as
1. Someone owns a copyright. 2. You make use of that copyrighted item outside of fair use. 3. You are stealing.
Oh, by the way : that last bit makes you a hypocrite. You should live by your convictions. What kind of a person are you if you consciously do something that you feel is morally wrong?
That is such a weak point, you really shouldn't have even included it.. We're not talking about my morality. We're discussing whether or not downloading copyrighted music is stealing.
The dictionary defines 'steal' as "To take (the property of another) without right or permission.". You admit that it is copyright infringement, which means you must also admit that the music is their property (what else does having a copyright mean?). Having a copyright means you have the right to say how the object of your copyright is distributed. If you as copyright holder say "NO! It cannot be distributed that way!", and another person does so anyway, they are guilty of taking the property of another without right or permission.
IT IS STEALING. I do it too, but at least I know its wrong, and I'll probably keep doing it until my liberty is threatened with a lawsuit, but all the while I will know its wrong.
Dude.. Calm down.. Nobody was "blasted", she did take a hella long time answering the questions.. I know I've been waiting for them for a while.. anyway, go drink a latte or something, you've got a little too much stress goin on over there.
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I think we've both put our view out there, and we are not going to convince each other here. That said, I do agree with your point about using the right words for a situation. I did not. I should not have said all the while I'm stealing songs I know that it is wrong, I should have said that I know that it is illegal. You are also right, I shouldn't have put that in there if I didn't want you to comment on it.
That said, we are still not discussing my morality or your definition of my character. We are discussing the definition of copyright infringement versus theft. To me, when it comes down to it, if you download music that you have not paid for or do not have some other right to (such as fair use), you are stealing it.
Till next time..
Even you say "make use of" rather than "take". Therefore, it is not "stealing". It is "illegal copying" and is wrong, but it is not the same thing.
Lets return to the original definition of steal - "To take (the property of another) without right or permission." Regardless of how you take the property, if you do it without the right or permission of the owner of that property, you stole it.
I agree that you cannot own or possess an idea in the same way that you can own or possess a physical item, such as a pencil. You cannot keep someone from using an idea in the same way you can keep them from using your pencil. But just because you can't touch it doesn't mean its not real. You can't touch an idea and that idea is real. You can't touch the law and the law is real. The law says a person can have ownership of an idea through copyright or patents. I agree with you on how copyright law should be, but as far as how it is, when you violate copyright by "taking" or "making use of" something that you do not have a right to, you are stealing.
Your playing on semantics here. You can twist words to make them seem to hold up your point of view, but when it comes down to it, its as simple as
1. Someone owns a copyright.
2. You make use of that copyrighted item outside of fair use.
3. You are stealing.
Oh, by the way : that last bit makes you a hypocrite. You should live by your convictions. What kind of a person are you if you consciously do something that you feel is morally wrong?
That is such a weak point, you really shouldn't have even included it.. We're not talking about my morality. We're discussing whether or not downloading copyrighted music is stealing.
You are so wrong!
The dictionary defines 'steal' as "To take (the property of another) without right or permission.". You admit that it is copyright infringement, which means you must also admit that the music is their property (what else does having a copyright mean?). Having a copyright means you have the right to say how the object of your copyright is distributed. If you as copyright holder say "NO! It cannot be distributed that way!", and another person does so anyway, they are guilty of taking the property of another without right or permission.
IT IS STEALING. I do it too, but at least I know its wrong, and I'll probably keep doing it until my liberty is threatened with a lawsuit, but all the while I will know its wrong.
Dude.. Calm down.. Nobody was "blasted", she did take a hella long time answering the questions.. I know I've been waiting for them for a while.. anyway, go drink a latte or something, you've got a little too much stress goin on over there.
Besides the fact that the Archos' quality sucks, you're probably right. I got mine last Monday, as of yesterday, it doesn't play at all. eff Archos.