Nomad Jukebox 3 Officially Out

An Anonymous Coward writes: "It seems that the long awaited Jukebox 3 is officially out. Features include time scaling, to play files at different speeds without affecting pitch, multichannel effects, optical input, wireless remote and two battery ports. Probably not an iPod killer yet, although it has many, many more features and welcome firewire port. Now when will this thing be available?"

Comments

Yet another way to piss off the RIAA

[Ma$$acre]

Time to siphon off some more profit from the RIAA.

Re:Yet another way to piss off the RIAA

[jimbolaya]

I don't think of portable MP3s players as doing any such thing as "siphon[ing] off some more profit from the RIAA," and I don't think to suggest so is constructive. It's the RIAA's largely incorrect belief that this is the effect of such devices that is resulting in their foolish crack down.

Here's the situation...people like to take their music with them. This is why we have and have had for decades portable music devices--radios, tape players, CD players, car stereos, and now, portable MP3 players. People like music, especially when they are on the go. The RIAA surely must realize this, and they profit from it.

If it's convenient to carry a CD with you when you go jogging, it is even more convenient to carry your entire CD collection with you. At least 95% of the MP3s I have on my computer (I'm still holding off on the iPod purchase) are ripped from my own, legally owned CDs (I admit to possessing a few downloaded songs). However,I listen to music far more often while driving than while at home. Once I do get that iPod, and an iPod connection kit, listening to music in my truck will be more convenient. And I'll be able to listen while running. I'll listen to more music. I'll buy more music. RIAA will make more money. And, hopefully, I'll run more often.

So, let's start a grassroots effort here, and let the RIAA know that players MP3 will not decrease their revenue. They're likely to increase revenue, provided the record companies back off their ill conceived copy protection schemes.

Re:Yet another way to piss off the RIAA

[Anonymous Coward]

how is this off topic? an article about a portable MP3 player...a post about the benefits of a portable MP3 player...seems perfectly on topic to me.

Re:Yet another way to piss off the RIAA

[Ma$$acre]

Uh... it was a joke. I agree with your statements. The RIAA's Knee-jerk reaction to fair use of purchased recording's is just crazy. I was referring to their idea that they can charge us for the same "entertainment" in several different forms. They want me to pony up $18 for a CD and then they want a usage fee for me to have MP3s ripped from the same content I already purchased. And if this is offtopic the moderator can kiss my ass.

Paid Avertisment???

[VonSnaggle]

Is this one of those paid advertisment/article things????

Re:Paid Avertisment???

[RealTimeFreeAgent]

Don't be silly. CmdrTaco clearly states only Yahoo! posts ads as news.

maybe

[KaizerWill]

maybe the price will come down on the previous models, so i can have a shot at owning one...

I really don't understand

[madenosine]

why people buy mp3 players shaped like cd players; the circular design is not nearly as convanient as a small rectangle. is there something I'm missing here?

Re:I really don't understand

[Istealmymusic]

To keep the corners from poking you, sending subliminal messages telling you MP3s cause harm.

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a hard drive based mp3 player it needs to have the same circular shape as a hard drive (at least that is what i think)and it would need to be large to have 6gb of space

Re:I really don't understand

[madenosine]

No, my archos jukebox is a hard drive. it holds 20 gigs and is much smaller than this one (btw, hard drive cases are rectangular)

Re:I really don't understand

[wfberg]

why people buy mp3 players shaped like cd players; the circular design is not nearly as convanient as a small rectangle. is there something I'm missing here?

rounded appliances don't crack as easily as square ones when you drop them?

Re:I really don't understand

[madenosine]

you can put rubber on the edges; my archos jukebox has rubber on all the corners and it doesnt get damaged when it drops

i doubt it would be true anyways tho

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, buy a NEX II, be there, it's square. 'Course, it's limited to compact flash capacity, no more than a gig, and it's $$.

Re:I really don't understand

[Zeinfeld]

No, my archos jukebox is a hard drive. it holds 20 gigs and is much smaller than this one (btw, hard drive cases are rectangular)

Looking at the software side the Nomad device looks pretty febble. You still have to download software into the thing. The Archos device is just a USB hard drive that will attempt to play any file with a .mp3 extension if you tell it to.

There are a bunch of drawbacks with the Archos. First the idiots hardwired the batteries into the case. So even though the batteries are standard AA NiMh batteries you have to carry arround a screwdriver and void your warranty to change them. I get about 4 hours actual use from the things so I often want to change batteries in mid flight and I doubt my scrwdriver is compatible with the new security regulations.

It would be much better if Archos et al adopted a common standard form factor for a smallish LiIon battery. Nikon have already developed a camera battery in a form factor that matches one of the new alkaline battery form factors.

The other problem with the archos is that mine skips tracks frequently and often. It is just not robust enough. It appears that errors or what it thinks are errors in the mp3 encoding cause the thing to stop playing.

The other problem with the archos is that the numbskulls have a 20Mb version and a 6Mb version that records but no 20Mb version that records. Also it is not apparent whether the recording version has a microphone input so that it can be used as a dictation machine. The guys appear to be concentrating on the MP3 market and ignoring the tens of millions of people who buy dictation machines. I would like to be able to dictate into the machine and then play back the recording into dragon dictate or Office XP for analysis.

Re:I really don't understand

[jimbolaya]

Who's ever seen a circular hard drive? Yes, the disks themselves are circular, but every drive I've ever seen has been rectangular. Don't forget that a hard drive also includes the read/write heads, a motor, connections, RAM for the buffer, ICs, and all that other good stuff.

And, yes, note that the iPod, which also contains a hard drive, is rectangular.

Re:I really don't understand

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

I did. (well, circular, with a small box on one "corner") It came from a 25 year old mainframe array (8 cabinets, connected with bazillions of wires), and it held 20 Megs.

I have a nice scar from when I took it apart. (Saw bone on that one)

Re:I really don't understand

[lungofish]

I think (not totally sure though) that Creative was thinking was that you'd be able to use existing portable cd player cases/holders for this thing. However, it doesn't really work that well in that situation, because the buttons are all in the wrong places.

I've also wondered why they made these things so damn big. I'd like to see one opened up and see if (as I suspect) there's wasted space in there. It could be a great product if it could fit in a pocket.

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

The other problem with the archos is that the numbskulls have a 20Mb version and a 6Mb version that records but no 20Mb version that records

Their website claims they offer a 20GB MP3 recorder.

Re:I really don't understand

[SkOink]

There are a bunch of drawbacks with the Archos. First the idiots hardwired the batteries into the case. So even though the batteries are standard AA NiMh batteries you have to carry arround a screwdriver and void your warranty to change them. I get about 4 hours actual use from the things so I often want to change batteries in mid flight and I doubt my scrwdriver is compatible with the new security regulations.

You've obviously never owned an Archos player in your life, or you're dumber than you're letting on. I have an Archos JB6000, myself (which I love, by the way). First, the battery life, fully charged, is about 8 hours (or 9 if you don't push the buttons much).Second, the batteries are NOT hardwired into the case; they are covered by flaps on either side of the player which can be opened with a key, a screwdriver, or any other small pointed obejct. You do NOT have to open the case, nor does changing the batteries void your warranty, since you need to put them in in the first place.

It would be much better if Archos et al adopted a common standard form factor for a smallish LiIon battery. Nikon have already developed a camera battery in a form factor that matches one of the new alkaline battery form factors.

If you owned an Archos, you'd know that the batteries used are indeed standard, run-of-the-mill rechargeable 1.2V NiMH AA batteries; they can be replaced with Radioshack's off-the-shelf ones. And besides, I doubt you'd want to 'change batteries in mid flight', since you'd need to be carrying around charged NiMH batteries (which don't hold a charge for all that long, if not being used), because regular 1.5 volt batteries would destroy the player.

Do everybody a favor, and the next time you want to talk about something that you know nothing of, don't.

Mod me up!

Re:I really don't understand

[sirsnork]

There isn't much space spare in a V2 Jukebox. I've had one apart. The HDD takes up the most room (with the exception of the batteries), The LCD basically sits flush against the HDD. The rest is basically surface mount components with the odd capaciter here and there.

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it's quite simple you see. If it round it's a burger and if it's square it's a fish!

Re:I really don't understand

[Zeinfeld]

You've obviously never owned an Archos player in your life

You are either a pathalogical liar or you have a different model to mine. Mine quite definitely requires a 6 point star screwdriver to open it, plus it has a notice to the effect over one screw that states opening it will void the warranty. Having opened up the case I can assure folk that there is no simple means of access. It is possible to pry apart the rubber doohdads on the corners but doing so puts a lot of pressure on parts that are clearly not made to stand it.

If the manual says no user servicable parts I for one am inclined to accept that. My device came with the batteries inserted.

If you owned an Archos, you'd know that the batteries used are indeed standard, run-of-the-mill rechargeable 1.2V NiMH AA batteries;

Gee, can't read either, I said it would be good if there was a standard form factor for Lithium Ion, I know that the batteries are NiMH.

I know that the unit claims 8 hours use, my experience using the piece of shit is that the claims are untrue.

since you'd need to be carrying around charged NiMH batteries (which don't hold a charge for all that long, if not being used), because regular 1.5 volt batteries would destroy the player.

As for batteries that do not hold charge if unused, I would hope that they would at least last long enough for an in flight change over. I seriously doubt that the type of battery would matter unless you tried to charge an alkaline battery.

Mod me up!

The guy is peddling flamebait.

Re:I really don't understand

[Zeinfeld]

Their website [archos.com] claims they offer a 20GB MP3 recorder.

That is new then , I looked only last month.

However the MP3 recorder is clearly not the device to go for now, look at the media player, it is a much better device, it has the microphone input etc and can be used to store and view image files from a camera.

Only yet again the dweebs have opted for a 10Gb disk instead of 20, like people are going to buy now when there will be a bigger one out pretty soon.

The device also uses Lithium ion batteries, but yet again no apparent means of using a spare battery, could get anoying when the battery goes soft.

So with archos doing genuinely interesting stuff, why do we get the puff piece for the creative junk that offers nothing new except a slightly bigger disk???

Re:I really don't understand

[Teethgrinder]

As the parent seems to have been modded into oblivion I may try to clarify that. Like him, I own a JB6000 which does indeed let you change the batteries. This was actually one of the main reasons I bought it as I was planning for a >20h flight which definately required changing batteries and other offers with "proprietary" batteries would have required me to shell out an additional ~$50 for a replacement battery.

And NiMH batteries are actually quite decent in general. They loose approximately 1.5% of their charge per day (Lithium-based batteries are indeed better in that regard)

As far as the usage duration of the Archos is concerned I'm quite content with it. I dont think it runs for 8 hours but I think the original ads a year ago only claimed 4 hours, IIRC.

Either way I dont understand why /. keeps pushing the Creative stuff when the Nomad's so far have all been SDMI-compliant, i.e. dont let you copy from the device (though it seems that this is different for this one).

Re:I really don't understand

[bagder]

The other problem with the archos is that the numbskulls have a 20Mb version and a 6Mb version that records but no 20Mb version that records.

How weird. My 20GB Archos Recorder had just that when they shipped it to me.

Rockbox comes optional though! ;-)

Re:I really don't understand

[BlueOtto]

My Archos absolutely DOES NOT require a screwdriver to get to the batteries; you can slide the covers out with just a little force with my thumb. The screws are protected by a warrantee sticker. The manual says that removing the batteries will void the warranty, but Archos has since changed that policy and posted it on their website. I love my archos!

Re:I really don't understand

[SkOink]

I really don't know have any intention of getting into a flame war with you, but I'd be doing us both a disservice if I didn't point out the (IMHO) obvious about your player: to the right and left of the control panel are two small slots, exactly halfway down the player (next to your battery covers). Those tabs can be popped open with a screwdriver, an ordinary flathead.

Oh, and the running with standard 1.5V AA batteries would indeed ruin your player, because it would be supplying 6VDC to a 5VDC hard-drive, which would fry it like a cheap side of bacon. the 1.2V batteries supply 4.8 volts, which, while on the low side, is sitll acceptable to run the drive off of.

Some people....

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly have no clue about battery technology. Over the life of a standard 1.5v Alkaline battery, it will actually average 1.2v. Only new alkaline batteries are 1.5v. The volts will drop as soon as it starts being used.

See this FAQ

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

You really think that just because the hard drives YOU by are rectangular that Creative is limited to the same configuration?

Re:I really don't understand

[frunch]

The design definitely lags behind that of the iPod in several areas. I count 11 buttons on the Nomad - two of which are used to skip between songs. Where's the scroll wheel?

Re:I really don't understand

[SkOink]

You clearly have no clue about battery technology. Over the life of a standard 1.5v Alkaline battery, it will actually average 1.2v. only new alkaline batteries are 1.5v. The volts will drop as soon as it starts being used.

They average 1.2V. Ther START, however, at 1.5 volts and gradually work down to about 0.9V at their minimum useful lives, averaging at 1.2V ((1.5+0.9)/2). However, it only takes a few seconds of 6VDC to destroy a hard-drive.

Still, that's a good read. Thanks for the link.

Re:I really don't understand

[Zeinfeld]

I really don't know have any intention of getting into a flame war with you

Then maybe if you were a bit more courteous and did not begin the way you did you would not have had your post modded into oblivion.

My archos device is most probably earlier than yours. It shiped with a warning to upgrade the firmware because the stuff it shipped with was faulty. The newer models do not look very different though.

If Archos ship the device with a warning that you can't change the batteries I am tempted to take them at face value. I tend not to expect consumer gadgets to take more than a PhD in Nuclear Physics (which I have) to work out how to change the damn batteries.

As for being please with the thing, I would be much more pleased if 1) Archos had actually told people you can change the batteries instead of telling them you can't and 2) the thing did not skip tracks so often.

Of course it is possible I bought a unit that turns out to be a lemon and I should get another.

Having applied injudicious voltages to a wide range of hardware over the years I am not aware that hard drives are especially sensitive to overvoltage. Of course I have not done so recently and the hard drives for portables may indeed be hypersensitive, I am inclined to doubt this however. The only component likely to be especially sensitive would be the read head which probably has a whole rack of conditioning circuitry surrounding it.

Re:I really don't understand

[SkOink]

Have you upgraded to the newest firmware? It skips a lot less. Also, while the Archos manuals do indeed prohibit changing the batteries, this is listed as a typo of sorts on their website; you can indeed change the batteries without voiding your warranty.

My player, which is pretty new, does still skip a little though. It's not much though, and it only seems to do it on a few tracks (not sure why). That's my only complaint with it.

Re:I really don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

scroll wheel is on the side.. same place that volume was for first version

Release date

[Anonymous Coward]

I talked to one of the circuit designers for this project and he expects the Nomad to be ready around July 2002.

RIAA reaction time

[sgtsanity]

I wonder how long it'll be until the RIAA releases some new survey blaming music jukeboxes like this for a decrease in sales?

Re:RIAA reaction time

[High Jumbllama]

Why don't they just blames cassette deck/player manufacturers for decreases in sales while they are at it.

Personalized?

[eweu]

Nice, but can I get my root password engraved on the back? I keep forgetting it...

Steve Jobs...

[IronTek]

I think I must be caught in Steve Jobs's Reality Destortion Field.

...because I still want an iPod over this thing!

Actually, this thing is great, certainly better than the first two (of which I never really liked), but it's still too large to be truly portable.

Did Nomad Pay for This?

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't mean this as a flame, but articles like this do beg the question of whether or not advertisers are paying to have the products promoted as a Slashdot story. Especially when there's nothing really that insightful here. Furthermore given the financial strugges of Slashdot's parent company, its not unthinkable to see them accepting advertising funds in exchange for Slashdot hits.

Just wondering, I guess....

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[Mr. Sketch]

I guess that April Fools story about the updated slashdot advertisement policy wasn't an april fools after all...

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[nucal]

You'll know if you start seeing banner ads for Nomad tomorrow...

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[seanadams.com]

articles like this do beg the question of whether or not advertisers are paying to have the products promoted as a Slashdot story

As someone who has sent a product to Slashdot for review, let me tell you that this is *not* how it works. These guys like gadgets, and they consider product announcements to be worthy of "news for nerds". Judging by the number of comments attached these stories, most slashdot readers agree. That's why you see a lot of MP3 and PVR related stories.

We didn't pay slashdot to review the SliMP3. All cmdrTaco got out of it was a free prototype. I wasn't even the one who submitted the original story about my project. Somebody just found us on the web, and submitted a story. That's usually how slshdot works. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't see the slashdot effect - don't you think sites would prepare for the traffic if they knew a story was coming out?

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[ryants]

I think /. should adopt a new policy of not allowing AC submissions of product announcements in the name of journalistic integr...

Oh wait... never mind...

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[hedley]

Nah to really promote the product via a /. story would require that your skeptical comment be nuked also (should be part of the hush-hush agreement, don't accept negative replies when issuing a product placement story.)

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[great throwdini]

[D]on't you think sites would prepare for the traffic if they knew a story was coming out?

[advocacy type="devilish"]

Not really. Anyone else recall the whole mlife launch fiasco for AT&T Wireless during the last Super Bowl?

[/advocacy]

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[dynoman7]

All cmdrTaco got out of it was a free prototype

== payment enough for me!

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[moonboy]

Pretty fishy, especially after this almost duplicate story posted just the other day?

Hmmmmmm...

Re:Did Nomad Pay for This?

[leighklotz]

Perhaps it's this link (product) instead of this broken link...

no vorbis?

[bani]

no sale...

better luck next time, creative.

Re:no vorbis?

[javilon]

... And no Linux! At least in the system requiremets page.

I guess I'll have to wait.

Re:no vorbis?

[Anonymous Coward]

i just called creative's U.S. sales support telephone number (800-998-5227) and asked about vorbis. the guy said he'd vaguely heard the term, but that since the product was already in production, vorbis wouldn't be in there.

i said, "it's firmware upgradeable, right?"

he said "yes, it's firmware upgradeable and can support future formats."

so if someone can convince creative to release enough technical info to be able to port the vorbis decoder to the unit (fat chance), it should be possible to do. the question is (as one of the replies to the parent post points out), is the hardware capable of doing the decoding fast enough as-is, or is an ASIC absolutely necessary? based on the "support future formats" bit i'd guess it shouldn't need a new ASIC, but i'm not sure about that.

anyway, if you care about seeing vorbis in this thing at some point, a phone call wouldn't be a bad idea.

-fp

Re:no vorbis?

[Kenshin]

No Vorbis?

Probably because only 1% of the people they're marketing it to actually want it, so it's not worth the effort for them to put it in.

It's like going to Ford, and asking why the hell their cars don't support MiniDisc. (Which I personally love.)

That, and Ogg Vorbis NEEDS A NEW NAME BEFORE IT'S EVEN MARKETABLE!

Re:no vorbis?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on - Vorbis on it's own sounds pretty cool.

Re:no vorbis?

[Anonymous Coward]

No brains...

Re:no vorbis?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did it ever occur to you thet you're such a tiny percentage of the market that no one gives a shit about you?

Marketing guy "Let's blow some of our development money on linux compatibility so that five guys can use it"

Manager guy "What the fuck is a linux?"

Troll? Maybe. True? You know it, daddy.

What the hell is SB1394?

[red5]

Is it like (or compatible with) IEEE 1394?
AKA FireWire/iLINK.
Anyone else find it funny that the non apple version is called 'iLINK'?

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[Kevinv]

firewire is apple's trademark and i believe if you call your device "firewire" you have to give them more money (more than just the royalty for the firewire patent, which apple also owns)

so everyone comes out with their own name.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[Fletch]

sb1394 is IEEE1394. and, AFAIK, only sony refers to IEEE1394 as iLink.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[MisterBlister]

FireWire is a trademark of Apple, iLink is a trademark of Sony; they both describe the same thing... So, pick one, pay them, and then use the name... Or go with IEEE1394. I'm guessing SB1394 is Creative's own little take on it..SB..SoundBlaster? Creative? Sigh...

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[red5]

sb1394 is IEEE1394. and, AFAIK, only sony refers to IEEE1394 as iLink.

I thought so.
Do you think sony trademarked iLINK just to pissoff apple?

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[jimmcq]

Anyone else find it funny that the non apple version is called 'iLINK'?

The only people that call it iLink are Sony.

Firewire is mostly an Apple term, although it doesn't seem to be exclusive to them.

SB1394 just means that it passed Creative's "comprehensive SB1394 Certification evaluation" (which is just marketing-speak for saying that it works with the ports on their SoundBlaster cards).

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[Steveftoth]

Also, sonys iLink is not firewire because iLink has no power integrated. Firewire provides power to the device, Sony does not.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[NMerriam]

no, sony's i.Link is a little different -- the cable doesn't carry any power (allowing for a smaller plug on the external device) so an i.Link device is 1394 but needs a different cable and external power.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[red5]

no, sony's i.Link is a little different -- the cable doesn't carry any power (allowing for a smaller plug on the external device) so an i.Link device is 1394 but needs a different cable and external power.

The fact that there different or not is not what I was talking about.
I find it funny that the company that has the iMac, iPOD, iTunes, iMovie, etc got beaten to iLINK by sony.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[swv3752]

Wrongo. iLink is simply a IEEE1394 port. A Sony Vaio will always have a 4 pin port (no power) and most desktops will also have a 6 pin (two leads for power).

Most DV devices have only a 4 pin port and I know that several scanners, CDRW and Harddrives have 4 pin ports as well. Additionally there are 6 to 4 pin cables so that a 6 pin port can be used with a 4 pin device.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[swv3752]

As I pointed out before, you are wrong. A Sony Vaio has both 6 pin and 4 pin ports. All are iLink. I know many models used a Texas Instruments IEEE1394 chipset.

On the DV cameras, yes they use a 4 pin IEEE1394 port. They also call that iLink. You will find that every DV camera uses a 4 pin 1394 port.

Sony's iLink is not Firewire, because iLink is trademarked to Sony, and Firewire is trademarked to Apple.

You find stuff refering to iLink and Firewire because Sony and Apple are the only two computer manufactures that ship every computer with a IEEE 1394 port.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[asv108]

Well according to the first review it works with other firewire adaptors as well.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've looked into Creative Labs stuff, SB1394 is the Firewire compatible port on an SB Audigy series card. Even gold plated :-) The Creative software is designed to use this port specifically for Nomad players apparently.

Re:What the hell is SB1394?

[NMerriam]

I find it funny that the company that has the iMac, iPOD, iTunes, iMovie, etc got beaten to iLINK by sony

Oh, actually i hadn't even noticed that -- you're right, that is pretty funny!

Total cost to Canadians...

[neksys]

Lets see.... $21 per gigabyte, if this tariff passes. $21 * 20 = $420 + retail. Somehow I doubt Canadian consumers are going to be shelling out around $1000 for something like this. How long before companies like Creative step in to try to put a stop to our new proposed levies?

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[porkface]

Try voting ya hoser!

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[neksys]

Voting on what? It's not an issue that will be brought to a national referendum or anything like that. It's strictly a bill proposed in the House of Commons that will eventually work its way to royal assent, where it then becomes law. The best we can do as private individuals is try to get our Members of Parliament to vote *against* the bill - unlikely, given that a vote against your own party is more often than not a great way to spend the rest of your career as a backbencher.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[SuiteSisterMary]

Yup, you have to love our concept of 'social democracy;' get voted in on a specific platform, then do whatever your party head tells you, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE FUCKING VOTERS TELL YOU TO DO. At least in America, you can BUY votes...

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[SubtleNuance]

dont be an idoit, it has nothing to do with Canadian Social Democracy vs. American Plutocracy; it is corruption plain and simple.

Dont like it? See my .sig -- that will make ruling parites accountable...

BTW: if you live in Windsor, ON: Caboto club @ 19:00 all candidates for the by-election.

Im OTW now, only stopped to reply to this Torontonian.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should be able to find them on eBay, or maybe selling black market mp3 players in Canada is a good idea.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[SuiteSisterMary]

I just have a fundamental problem with our gov't system. An elected official must vote along party lines, even if each and every one of his constituants wants said offical to vote a different way. Otherwise, the Party Whip will come get you! I don't know what to call what we have, but it certainly isn't democracy. Other than a referendum, I have aboslutely no say in the operation of my government, because my MP has an almost legal requirement to do what his party leader tells him to do. Other than, of course, a vote of concience, or a referendum. As far as I'm concerned, the technology exists to make referendums an easy and standard part of the process of passing a bill.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[Linuxthess]

Technically it can't be called blank media if they put one short sound clip extolling "Your brand-new Nomad blah blah blah, go everywhere with music you have never gone before, blah blah blah"

Then you can let the tarrif be a bygone. I know it doesn't work in the long run (because they probaly will then rewrite the law to close that loophole) and also because it doesn't address the tarrif for CD-R/W discs.

But mostly, you guys over that imaginary line called "border" have my fullest sympathy, and encourage you guys to do what you can before this rediculous-ness catches on here in the good ol' US of RIAA.

------------------

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. I've seen party members try to fight the status quo and they get railroaded out of there faster than the bullet train. You never get an opportunity to vote on little issues like this, and the majority of the country does not know/care about it, so nothing will be done.

It'll be just another law that slips by everyone and you don't see it until you're complaining about the OPEC-style pricing of recording media while waiting in line at Walmart.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[SubtleNuance]

See my .sig!

Canada needs to re-invent their democracy, we have increasing voter apathy and a decreasingly responsive gov't.

I suggest A) referedums for MANY issues (not mill-rates and garbage..)
B) Remove the senate and repalce it w/ a proportional house

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[neksys]

Canada needs to re-invent their democracy, we have increasing voter apathy and a decreasingly responsive gov't.

Can you even call it a democracy anymore? I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but our entire system of representative government is a sham. I know you live in Ontario, and this isn't meant to be any sort of flame, but at least the strange near-dictatorship we have is focused primarily on Central Canadian issues. I live in British Columbia, which currently houses 13% of Canada's total population, yet is only allowed about 6% of the total Senate seats. Compare this to New Brunswick, with a mere 2.5% of the population, yet a full 11% of Senate seats!

Unfortunately, I don't see any major democratic reform despite these concerns, for two primary reasons: The Central Canadian government needs to protect Central Canadian interests, and we've certainly got a poor track record at constitutional amendments/reforms. This is getting off topic - email me if you wish to discuss further.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is not a bill and there will be no vote. The levy already exists. If you choose to object you may only object over the amount of the levy. You cannot challenge the levy itself. What they are doing now is setting new rates. It's quite frustrating really. There is no debate to be had.

Re:Total cost to Canadians...

[SmittyTheBold]

How long before companies like Creative step in to try to put a stop to our new proposed levies?
My guess is never. Or, at least, a very long time. The market is considerably smaller in Canada. The money expended to protect a potential market is better spent on inproving products in an already-competitive market in the US. It's just the economics of it.

I wonder if the battery life is really that good

[Drakino]

I wonder if the battery life is really anywhere near 22 hours, and also if it is turned into a brick with two batteries.

Also, can it act as a normal hard drive?

I just wish the empeg group of SonicBlue would release a hard drive portable player. But with the Riot out, it dosen't look overly promising to have a linux hackable MP3 portable player anytime soon. The iPod is nice, but I doubt it will just get OGG support, dynamic compression, a web server, and other interesting features hacked into it. OGG support on the empeg-car will be so nice.

www.nomadness.net

[Britano]

The source for all Creative Labs news, and not paid for by CL! www.nomadness.net

Alternative third-party software for the Jukebox

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people who have used the original Nomad Jukebox do not like the software that comes with it called PlayCenter. An alternative that has become very popular in the Nomad community is Notmad Explorer.

It provides full Windows Explorer integration, access to the Jukebox via a built-in webserver, and search and report generation features using a built-in SQL database.

There's a free trial version. Notmad Explorer is also mentioned in the first full review of the Jukebox3 at TBREAK.com.

Slashvertisement

[jimmcq]

That would be a Slashvertisement

8,000 songs

[blugecko]

I wish they would say how many Megabytes this thing holds, not how many songs. I am assuming they are assuming that the average mp3 file is something like 4megs, who knows. My average song size is something like 60megs, since I listen to a ton of live electronic music. I guess it's a step up from library of congress or (gasp) that stupid story that measured things in terms of the human genome....

Re:8,000 songs

[Fletch]

from the specs page:

Memory
16MB DRAM buffer
20GB hard drive storage (333 hours at 128kbps MP3 encoding)

Re:8,000 songs

[greenius]

It holds enough megabytes that if a football pitch sized colony of ants were to hold one bit per ant and stood on top of each other it would reach to the moon in more time than Concorde could fly between London and New York if all the passengers were listening to inferior MP3 players during take off and landing.

Re:8,000 songs

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA

(Read The Fucking Article)

Well, not article really, but you scroll down a bit and it clearly says it holds 20 gigs.

Re:8,000 songs

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought this would be a great place to point out that the Ipod has a problem where if your mp3 files are larger than 20mb it won't put them into the ram, so you can get skips (if the device is moved) and the HD will continually spin, this causes the IPod's battery to only last about 2-3 hours (the lifespan of the original nomad jukebox's battery).

eh?

[AKA da JET]

"It seems that the long awaited Jukebox 3 is officially out." "Now when will this thing be available?"

OK, that confused me at first. (I thought 'out' meant it was 'available')

Re:eh?

[amuro98]

I think he meant to say "officially announced", not "released."

You'd think that a geek would know the product lifecycle...

Re:eh?

[Monte]

I think he meant to say "officially announced", not "released." You'd think that a geek would know the product lifecycle...

If I were a cynic I might think it was a ploy to generate hits on the product web page.

But no, what am I thinking -- the /. editors are honorable men, all.

Ogg Vorbis player

[2Bits]

Wake me up when there's a player for Ogg Vorbis.

I've converted most of my CDs to Ogg already,
and getting rid of the mp3 formats.

While we're at it, please make one for my car
too, will ya?

Still no Ogg Vorbis

[bmw]

According to their page it seems to only support WMA, MP3, and WAV formats.

I'm aware that Ogg Vorbis hasn't reached 1.0 yet, but still, you'd think they could include support for it pretty easily. Anyone know if you can upgrade the software on these things? Their site doesn't mention anything about it.

Re:Still no Ogg Vorbis

[Anonymous Coward]

Pree easily. Yeah, I mean, all you have to do is integerize it. It's open source, why haven't YOU done it yet?

Re:Still no Ogg Vorbis

[Enrico Pulatzo]

Not until there is an integer version of the Vorbis decoder. Floating point operations in a portable are more expensive than an iPod!

Exactly

[krmt]

Is there any techincal reason why no one supports vorbis yet? I know... I know... it's not as popular as MP3 and therefore probably not worth the money, but in terms of the purely technical, why isn't there a portable ogg player? The project is in the 1.0RC phase, and we all know it's a high quality product. Given that the software itself is free, how hard would it be to put the decoder in to one of these things? I just don't understand.

Re:Exactly

[Jeffrey Baker]

Someone has to manufacture an ASIC to decode vorbis. You can't do it on a general purpose processor because the usual embedded processors like ARM are not fast enough and processors that are fast enough use too much power. I don't think anyone will produce a vorbis ASIC until a huge market for portable, low-power vorbis players exist.

The only likely scenario would be an existing MP3 ASIC manufacturer adding vorbis support to their product. At least that wouldn't require (much) more space on the circuit board.

Re:Exactly

[ikeleib]

You are wrong. The ASIC based decoders have less horsepower than the ARM based decoders. It's lack of a codec that's holding it back. The ammount of NOR flash on most player boards is more than enough for an additional codec. NO ADDITIONAL PARTS WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR MOST MP3 PLAYERS.

To help in making a fixed pont Ogg codec, see: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ivdev

Re:Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Free vorbis decoders use floating point.

Portal players use integers.

There aren't integer vorbis decoders that are free (beer or speech).

Re:Exactly

[named]

One of the problems is that the present decoder requires a floating point unit to be present (or to use the horribly slow emulation). Apparently, there is/will be a integer decoder available for sale from the creators of Vorbis that will fix this situation. Apparently, there's even been interest in said decoder. Maybe soonish we'll see some hardware players supporting Vorbis... that will be sweet.

See this thread for details.

Re:Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

portal=portable.

(brain hurt)

Re:Exactly

[krmt]

Interesting... how much work is this project going to entail? I don't know much about encoding, but if you could point me towards whatever docs need to be read to help out, I'd like to help. I feel like I've been waiting for a portable vorbis player forever, and if this would really be the key, then I'd like to help.

Re:Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Go get 'um tiger! That's just what the project needs. More people that know nothing about what they're doing! Why is open source going nowhere again?

Re:Exactly

[John_Booty]

From everything I've read, including posts from the Ogg guys, the Ogg decoding algorithm requires floating-point math, something small embedded processors typically don't have. This isn't the case with mp3's.

I bet the hardware manufacturers would love to implement Ogg- I doubt they like paying licensing fees to Microsoft and Franhofer (sp?) for WMA and MP3 licenses.

I believe the Ogg guy(s) are working on a decoding algorithm that doesn't require floating-point math. I'm out of touch with Ogg land though... check their site.

Re:Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

There are integer implementation of Vorbis decoders but they aren't free. Xiph have one (closed source) as do The Kompany (closed source).

Re:Exactly

[boopus]

Actualy, an integer math Ogg library does exist, but it just isn't free. Whoever the "Ogg guys" are decided they needed to eat, and decided to charge money for the integer math decoder. Nothing, however is stopping anyone else from writing their own integer math implementation.

Look at the size of that thing

[Akito]

Maybe its just me, but I like the tiny little iPod. Why oh why can't they make them smaller than cd players?

Re:Look at the size of that thing

[amuro98]

I'm guessing the HD the Nomad uses is a laptop drive - much larger than the matchbox sized Microdrives from IBM that are used by iPod.

Microdrives don't hold as much as laptop drives...is there even a 20GB microdrive? If there were, I'd guess it'd cost Creative over $500 per device, meaning the Nomad would cost close to $1500 MSRP. I may love music, but that's a bit steep for a dedicated portable device, no?

So it comes down to price vs. capacity. Want big drives, buy a Nomad or other device that uses a laptop drive. Want a small device? Buy an iPod.

Re:Look at the size of that thing

[Huogo]

Using a laptop drive is definitly a good move, because they are mass produced for cheap in other devices (laptops). I'm sure people can handle a bit bigger a device with more capacity for less than a smaller device with less capacity for more.

Re:Look at the size of that thing

[Akito]

Yep, the micro drives come in 5, 10, and 20 gig forms.
Oh how I wish for a 20 gig iPod. wait, let me revize that. Oh how I wish for an afordable 20 gig iPod.

Re:Look at the size of that thing

[questionlp]

Microdrives don't hold as much as laptop drives...is there even a 20GB microdrive? If there were, I'd guess it'd cost Creative over $500 per device, meaning the Nomad would cost close to $1500 MSRP. I may love music, but that's a bit steep for a dedicated portable device, no?

The hard drive in the iPod is a 1.8" form factor hard drive, which is smaller than the standard 2.5" form factor hard drive found in most laptops. IIRC, the hard drive found in the Nomad Jukebox (6GB, 10GB and 20GB; dunno about the NJ3) uses the 2.5" laptop drives.

The IBM Microdrives are even smaller than the drives found in your iPod and the largest capacity Microdrive is 1GB.

Re:Look at the size of that thing

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing is smaller than a CD player, I've seen pics of it compared to a CD, and it wouldn't even be able to fir a CD

Required equipment not included???

[dw5000]

PC Minimum System Requirements:
Microsoft® Windows® 98 (Second Edition required for SB1394 transfer)/2000/Me/XP
Intel® Pentium II 233MHz or AMD K6®-2 266MHz (Pentium III450MHz or higher recommended for MP3 encoding)
SVGA graphics adapter (256 colors, 800x600)
Internet connection for Internet content downloading or CDDB® support (any charges incurred are the responsibility of the end user)
64MB RAM (128MB recommended)
USB or SB1394 port (found on Sound Blaster® Audigy(TM) series of audio cards)
30MB free hard disk space (more for audio content storage)
Installed Mouse
Sound Blaster® Audigy(TM), Extigy(TM) or Live! for EAX® enhanced MP3 encoding
CD-ROM drive with digital audio extraction support

end thieved content from NOMAD page

I have to buy a new SOUNDCARD to use this thing? I just got my 5.1 Platinum six months ago. I'm not sure a lot of people are going to be up for paying $100 for a new card just to be able to use "SB 1394."

I can get an 10GB iPod with XDrive for under $450. Yes, the storage site is only 10GB, but with true Firewire I can shift files on and off in minutes rather than the hours USB1 takes.

Come on Creative, give us REAL Firewire support!

Re:Required equipment not included???

[MalcalypseTheYounger]

Only if you want the EAX encoding. No clue as to what that adds, sound-wise, but I don't think creative is stupid enough to try to force you to buy a card to go with that expensive mp3 player.

However adding functionality to said player with certain cards means at least a couple power users are destined to plunk down a bit of extra change for one.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[Fletch]

it is real IEEE1394. it's just passed their audigy firewire port compatibility tests, so it's called sb1394.

it should work with any other IEEE1394 card you might have.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[amuro98]

Well, of course Creative would love it if you bought an Audigy...but that shouldn't be required.

If nothing else, this thing also says it has a USB interface, and 1394 is 1394 - no matter what marketting name is applied to it.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[Shabazz]

dude, sb1394 is real firewire, except it can't power devices. So this thing'll hook up to any workin 1394 connection you may have. Just don't plan on recharging devices with sb1394.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is soundcard needed?

Re:Required equipment not included???

[0x20]

I recharge my ipod via my Audigy's sb1394 port all the time. Are you sure about this?

Re:Required equipment not included???

[0x20]

You're underinformed. SB1394 is IEEE 1394. Sony calls it iLink. Apple calls it Firewire. Same thing. They're just cross-marketing by suggesting a Creative soundcard. Just like Apple tries to sell you a whole Mac (iTunes) to go with the iPod. If you have a Firewire port in your PC, that's all you need to use the Nomad 3.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[dw5000]

it is real IEEE1394. it's just passed their audigy firewire port compatibility tests, so it's called sb1394.

<carson>I did not know that.</carson>
Still, I'm leaning towards an iPod; its smaller size is more important to me than its drive being half the size of the new Nomad.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[Shabazz]

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/audigy/page 5.asp
here's a synopsis: audigy only provides 2 watts, you could damage your audigy by trying to power devices off of it.

Re:Required equipment not included???

[0x20]

Thanks for the link... Guess I won't be doing that anymore.

Wow, the Creative marketing dept passed math

[Longing]

20GB storage space holds up to 8000 songs encoded in WMA at 80kbps or 5000 MP3s encoded at 128kbps

ika:/home/derek> bc
8000*80
640000
5000*128
640000

Derek

Re:Wow, the Creative marketing dept passed math

[Anonymous Coward]

duh ?
what exactly is this poster trying to prove ?

8000*80 ?

80kilobits per sec dude.

wtf are u multiplying it by 8000 for ?
u'll end up effectively with the storage amount needed for 8000 seconds of audio.

80kilobit per sec is about 10kilobytes per sec.

it still way below 20gb.
u didnt even provide units.

using an assumption of 3mb per song (for a 128kbps mp3)

5000 * 3mb = 15000mb = ~15gb.

5000 * 4mb = 20000mb = ~20gb.

so u can kinda assume creative assumed a 4mb per mp3 song(file).

why the hell does the above post have score 2 and informative.sheesh.

Does it play oggs?

[Omnifarious]

Almost my entire music collection is in oggs now.

Time Scaling

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I wouldn't be all that interested by this story except for that mention of time scaling.

I have been using my mp3 players of late (I have a d-link 32 meg thing and a Rio Volt) to listen to Project Gutenberg etexts converted to mp3 with TextAloud MP3 using AT&T Natural Voices speech engine. (You can hear a sample here.

Anyway, with time scaling, I'm guessing I'll be able to choose how fast to listen to my texts. That's exciting because your ability to listen to these things at high speed increases the more you listen. (As blind people can listen to audio books at surprisingly high speed, you will find your ability to listen increases as your practice increases.)

So, this seemingly minor feature could actually revolutionize the way you take in media.

Yet Another Non-Ogg Player

[Streyeder]

When will people learn that WMA and MP3 support isn't enough anymore? Really, how much more would it take to decode Ogg or, even better, allow for writing to the device. Just my -$0.02

Re:Yet Another Non-Ogg Player

[NMerriam]

When will people learn that WMA and MP3 support isn't enough anymore?

but it is enough. there may be .001% of the music population that even knows what Ogg Vorbis is, but most folks buying this stuff only know MP3.

I suspect most people wind up with windows media files more by accident (because the media encoder does them by default) than because they know anything about the format...

Buy a bunch

[cdf12345]

I'm buying a bunch then going to sell them to canadians to avoid their tariff on blank media.

$Ch-ching$

In other news.....

[beta21]

AC reports that you could look more like a geek with new Apple cupholders that display the temperature of your liquid (using a cut down AMD chip), only $9.99.

No wireless remote I could find

[JTMON]

Wired only and costs extra.

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not an iPod killer? Have you kept track of what features the iPod _actually_ has, or are you still stoned on the idea that apple made an mp3 player?

Re:I wonder if the battery life is really that goo

[Fletch]

Also, can it act as a normal hard drive?

yes. it must not mount as a normal portable hard disk in windows, though. it comes with the "creative file manager" app for transferring non-music files to/from the device.

there's one bullet about this on the features page ("Creative File Manager - Use the player as a portable storage device").

Compare...hd based MP3 players

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is an online chart to compare these types of devices - when/if this new Nomad goes on sale, it will be included.

So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[jht]

Reasons the iPod rules over the Nomad:

-iPod is way smaller.
-iPod software (iTunes) rocks.
-The iPod is a pretty rugged little box.
-Proven to be extensible.
-Works as a standard IEEE 1394 external disk.

Reasons the Nomad rules over the iPod:

-Holds 20Gb of MP3 data (as opposed to iPod's 5 or 10GB).
-You can add a second battery and double the life to 22 hours. The iPod only is good for 10 or so.
-Safe assumption - the Nomad works better with Windows, no 3rd party software needed. No Linux drivers for either.
-Both USB _and_ 1394 on board. Hopefully the port isn't some kind of funky "almost-standard" version.

Reasons the Nomad may kind of suck anyways:

-Size. Why make it look like a CD player if it relies on a hard drive?
-Ruggedness - every Nomad I've seen yet has been kind of flimsy. Until proven otherwise, I'll assume this one is, too.
- It uses a Sound Blaster for "enhanced MP3 encoding". Requiring an add-on product for best results is lame. Though I guess to some a Mac is an add-on product for an iPod...

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[hector66]

You forgot one very important thing: It says as a data storage medium you need Creative's software to move files. If the computer you are moving files to doesn't have the software you have to bring a floppy with drivers and the program for the other computer to recognize and use the device. There already are a significant number of computers (notbooks mainly) that don't even have floppy drives. What is going to happen then? I'm still going to wait until Apple makes PC software for the iPod (or until Apple ports OS X to x86)

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[CMonk]

Safe assumption - the Nomad works better with Windows, no 3rd party software needed. No Linux drivers for either.

Who needs special drivers? The iPod is a (somewhat) standard SBP-2 Disk. Just use cp in Linux (or browse it with Nautilus). The only obstacle with Windows and the iPod is that Windows doesn't support HFS disks.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[Anonymous Coward]

No.. the nomad is not 'kind of flimsy.' It is very solid... It feels more solid than any garden-variety portable cd-player I've held.

And no, it does not REQUIRE an add-on product for best results. If you decide that you want EAX-enhanced sound coming out of your computer, then yes, by all means, buy a new sound card that can handle that.. but the files are the same on the player.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[Blondie-Wan]

Reasons the Nomad rules over the iPod:

-Safe assumption - the Nomad works better with Windows, no 3rd party software needed.

I'd consider this more a drawback to the Nomad than an advantage, myself... ;)

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[awrc]

-iPod software (iTunes) rocks.

Of course, iTunes recognizes the Nomad too...

-Holds 20Gb of MP3 data (as opposed to iPod's 5 or 10GB).

There's also the upgrade route - not sure how big the drives used in the iPod go, but I've had a 30GB drive in my Nomad since last summer, and you can get 40GB or larger drives in that form factor too. You can get quite a lot of music in 30GB, even at 160kbps.

If my upgraded Nomad didn't already have a larger drive than the Nomad Jukebox 3 I'd be tempted by it - if only because of the Firewire download speeds. The size doesn't really bother me - I don't really use it as a portable unit and I generally run if off the AC adapter.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[jht]

The iPod should theoretically be able to use whatever the highest-capacity 1.8" hard drive out there is (currently the 10GB it has available now).

Most other portable devices use 2.5" laptop-type hard drives - the 1.8" is still a relatively new design, and pricier than the 2.5" mechanisms (though dropping fast). Assuming the Nomad uses a 2.5" disk, you could wedge a 48 or 60GB disk into it, provided it doesn't need the super-slim drives.

I have just under two days' music ripped on my TiBook - it takes up 3.5GB (mostly at 160k, some of it's at 192k). If and when I got an iPod, it'd have to be a 10GB model if I wanted to have any serious room left on it.

But, given that we're talking about $500 worth of scratch for it, I'll pass for now. $500 can buy a _lot_ of diapers, and that'll be a much better use of the money for us in a couple of months!

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[psxndc]

SB also has one advantage that, to me at least, is a decision maker: The Jukebox3 has input ports. I want to take this to my practice space and record three hours of my band playing. I can't do this with an iPod (but Steve Jobs, if iPod2 has a line-in/mic, I'm sold).

psxndc

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[kaphka]

-Ruggedness - every Nomad I've seen yet has been kind of flimsy. Until proven otherwise, I'll assume this one is, too.

FWIW, my original NJB is covered in nicks and scratches from all the times that I've dropped it, but it keeps on ticking. I suspect that its less exotic components (e.g. a physically larger hard drive) make it more durable than the iPod, even if it doesn't have titanium armor. (Or whatever.)

I've been pretty happy with my Nomad hardware. The software is another matter entirely...

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[nikster]

-Safe assumption - the Nomad works better with Windows, no 3rd party software needed. No Linux drivers for either.

the jukebox C [which i have] needs something called "Creative Playcenter 2". the good news is it comes with the nomad. the bad news is it's the worst (and i mean WORST) piece of software i have ever seen. completely unintuitive. crashes randomly. super-ugly. slow.

the jukebox does not, just show up as a hard disk. i can think of only one reason why Creative would go this route (e.g. bypass the practically built-in support for USB HDs in windows and go through the pain of developing their own software): digital rights management.

i have an iPod, too... it is all the jukebox should have been.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[CynicTheHedgehog]

- It uses a Sound Blaster for "enhanced MP3 encoding". Requiring an add-on product for best results is lame. Though I guess to some a Mac is an add-on product for an iPod...

The SoundBlaster Audigy has both dedicated hardware for MP3 encoding and a firewire port. It is one of the few, if not the only, sound card to provide these features.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[Shuh]

The Jukebox3 has input ports. I want to take this to my practice space and record three hours of my band playing.

Uhhh... I would check the web-site for any reference to this "feature" if I were you. I'm looking at the web-site specs right now and this sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, you can't read well can you? It has analog/digital input. Hook a mike, or amp up to it, and you can record to wav, or mp3 at high or low bitrate, check the website if you doubt me.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[Anonymous Coward]

The jukebox came out in 2000 it's years old, ofcourse if you compare a new computer product against one that's two years old the one that's a year and a half newer should win everytime. The fact that it's still somewhat competing with new products almost two full years after it's release I find to be a remarkable statement.

Re:So, to sum it up vs. the iPod....

[psxndc]

I see what you mean. It's pretty hard to find on the official site (I get most of my info from IGN), but if you click on the "tour" button (warning, it opens a new window with flash), click on "Overview" -> "Nomad Jukebox3" -> "Record Audio", you'll get shown a picture of the Line-in port. Hope this helps.

psxndc

Vaporware!

[sulli]

Just like the 100s of Mozilla 1.0 announcements we see on slashdot

Re:I wonder if the battery life is really that goo

[Anonymous Coward]

For integration with Windows Explorer, check out Notmad Explorer.

Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe someone at Creative submitted as AC

GMAFB....

[Anonymous Coward]

...it's still too large to be truly portable.

Well, the lame battery life and small capacity of the iPod compared to this make it unportable and unusable as a storage device. Everything is an absolute, black or white, there is no gray, only what Steve tells you.

I'd still rather have an iPod...

[Link-chan]

The iPod does so much more than any other MP3 player right now.

Re:I'd still rather have an iPod...

[Anonymous Coward]

It does? What pray tell? It works on a mac? Well I've give you that one. But that's more of a minus than a plus. So what else does it do that's so much better than anything else?

Re:I'd still rather have an iPod...

[Anonymous Coward]

go to a compusa and plug that in one of the computers...see if you can copy MS Office in less than 5 minutes (if you can copy it at all). :P

Pun intended?

[cygnus]

Requiring an add-on product for best results is lame.

yes, LAME is an add-on product that will produce the best mp3 results...

Archos vs. Nomad

[nucal]

One advantage of Archos Jukebox players is that they double as hard drives. In practical terms, what this means is that you transfer .mp3 and other files back and forth between the Archos Jukebox and other PCs. As far as I know, the Nomad units can only receive files from PCs - I guess as an "anti-piracy" measure.

Re:Archos vs. Nomad

[fiendo]

Another few advantages for Archos:

--size
--user-replaceable harddrive
--USB2.0 (480mbps vs. 400mbps for 1394, irrelevant anyway since the harddrive mechanics is the bottleneck at 10-15 MB/s for both)
--cost (Archos 20GB recorder last seen at 314USD)
--proprietary file management software not needed

Re:Archos vs. Nomad

[Haxwell]

Besides the fact that the Archos' quality sucks, you're probably right. I got mine last Monday, as of yesterday, it doesn't play at all. eff Archos.

Re:Archos vs. Nomad

[doublem]

Send it back.

I've never had any problems with mine, and you are the second person I've ever heard of having problems with a Archos Jukebox. It must be a fluke. (I hope it's a fluke, as I'm getting the 20 GB Recorder as soon as I can find one)

Mac version

[Anonymous Coward]

So, is there a Mac version of the software yet? :-)

blah blah blah

[spoonist]

blah blah blah obligatory ogg reference blah blah blah

Mac support?

[EvilStein]

I think that the previous version had Mac support.. what's the Mac support like with this thing? I looked at the site but didn't see anything about the Nomad 3 being supported under the MacOS.

I just love it when a company takes Apple technology (firewire) and then doesn't support the Mac.

Re:Mac support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, picked up the Apple technology and slaps the Mac community in the face.

Creative never was a company to make many friends though.

Re:Mac support?

[troc]

iTunes supports it perfectly.

;)

Well iTunes should do - it seems to talk to just about anything.

I'd still get an iPod

Troc

PS OK, iTunes probably doesn't talk to God.

Re:Mac support?

[flagstone]

From the FAQ list on the site:

Can I use the NOMAD Jukebox 3 with my Macintosh?

Not at the moment, but there are plans for Macintosh support soon. Check www.NOMADworld.com for updates.

This means that for now, this can't be an "iPod killer", since they run on different platforms. Perhaps in the future, but not now.

Actually, a phone call from most /.ers....

[JohnTheFisherman]

...could set ogg vorbis back twenty years! ;)

Re:I wonder if the battery life is really that goo

[questionlp]

I wonder if the battery life is really anywhere near 22 hours, and also if it is turned into a brick with two batteries.

The 22 hours quote comes from the maximum battery life when you have two battery packs installed. The maximum battery life time is 11 hours with the one supplied battery. The entire specs can be found here.

Lame

[Stromfeldt]

"Why settle for second class? The NOMAD Jukebox 3 is simply right for you because you deserve the best!"

Where'd they get this line from? A Shampoo ad?

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it funny how all you guys can't even bash the player itself, you've stooped so low as to bash the Ad slogans. Damn you guys are pathetic.

Re:Lame

[Stromfeldt]

It's not about the player. The player has existed for years. First it was a walkman, then a discman/mini-disc player, then an mp3 player. Yeah yeah. It can do this, it can do that. Basically it's better and can do more right? Lovely. But the point is, do they have to treat people like idiots, or like they're something super-important?

"Firewire" isn't an Apple Technology

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a quick spot of information to Captain Uninformed. Firewire IS NOT APPLE'S Technology. Firewire was invented by a small development company which Apple proceded to buy up, brand as their own and propagandize in typical Apple fashion. I'll find the inventor of Firewire and post it, but Apple is so full of propaganda they are almost as bad as Microsoft. Look at this link to view typical Apple BS. They are a propaganda spewing machine... YUCK

Re:"Firewire" isn't an Apple Technology

[Zed2K]

Your wrong..."Firewire" is Apple. Just like iLink is Sony. Apple may not have "invented" IEEE 1394 but they sure as hell have helped spread it. The ieee1394 trade association credits 1394 to Apple.

Definitely not an iPod killer

[bigfatlamer]

Probably not an iPod killer yet, although it has many, many more features and welcome firewire port.

I'm not sure where you get "many, many more" features. It's got a 10GB larger HD and the time scaling which is cool if you're trying to copy that Joe Satriani solo but otherwise fairly useless. If you count being 4.5X the size (on a volume basis) and more than 1/2 again the weight of an iPod as features then I suppose it has "many, many more" but then it's got that whole fugly thing going against it so I wouldn't panic just yet if I were Apple.

--

However closed specs.

[Anonymous Coward]

I happily own an archos Jukebox, I chosed it because It has Linux support. I have seen The new archos Jukebox and it's amazing, better than the 6000 model. with 20Gb and a much improved LCD display and navigation system.

The best of all is that the archos Jukebox comes well protected against shocks, with four rubber pieces in the corners. A friend of mine drop his Nomad to the Floor and the hard disk broke. I have dropped mi Archos jukebox a few times, and it keeps working well. It's very well engineered.

Size doesn't matter

[Tony]

The Archos Studio is the coolest designed MP3 out there (IMHO, of course). But the Nomad Jukebox is the best sounding. I have a modded Jukebox (blue backlight, 20G drive) and it has (by far!) the best sound of any MP3 player I've heard (Neo, iPod, Archos Studio, and that one from Compaq).

Some missing features: no decent random function. I'd like to stick the damned thing on "random," and have it play from my entire library. Randomly. Also missing: decent navigation. It's easy to browse by artist and title, but not genre or song.

It does have Linux support: check out libnjb, the great Nomad Jukebox library from John Mechalas. Also, check out (shameless self-promotion) the Perl bindings, perlnjb.

FO&D C.T., The Retort. Retorting.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Omelette" - A retort to Malda's Omelette analogy.

Let me try to give you an analogy for Slashdot's homepage.
Yes, please liken something to something in a cliché staid analogy because we the reader are too stupid to understand any overly complex and high level reason why you can't explain yourself properly. Either that or you are full of crap, don't know what you are doing and are lucky as hell to have what you have.

It's like an omelette: it's a combination of sausage and ham and tomatoes and eggs and more.
It is a motley collage, a miasma, a montage or eclectic and seemingly unrelated things. It may be a myriad of unrelated things, related at only the most abstract levels. It certainly isn't an omelette.

Over the years, we've figured out what ingredients are best on Slashdot.
What critical acclamations have you had that makes you think this is so? Just because you get a lot of hits, and subsequently subject your readership to unwanted bandwidth consuming detritus, doesn't mean you know what's best. It is just like a Reynolds family member claiming they know what's best for them, nicotine and smoke are not unhealthy, and then they die of lung cancer. You are an egotistical megalomaniac. If this site was run based on a meritocratic method rather and juvenile selfishness, it would have serious potential.

The ultimate goal is, of course, to create an omelette that I enjoy eating: by 8pm, I want to see a dozen interesting stories on Slashdot.
The ultimate goal is to please yourself, to feed your id. You have no desire to please the community by which you make your living. You are selfish, sheltered and removed from your community. You are on a one way soapbox, a pulpit, and you talk at people. I would probably include you in a list of people I would kill if I could get away with it.

I hope you enjoy them too.
I do not.

I believe that we've grown in size because we share a lot of common interests with our readers.
Mobocracy is good? You would rather collect people without regard to quality. This means nothing. Budweiser is the most consumer beer, but its garbage. This is analogous to Slashdot, to stoop to your food and beverage analogy. Bud beer. Its good because a lot of people drink it. No, no. Don't bother trying to get critical acclimation. Don't bother, you know as long as you "control" Slashdot, you never will.

But that doesn't mean that I'm gonna mix an omelette with all sausages, or someday throw away the tomatoes because the green peppers are really fresh.
So serving rotten food is acceptable how? Its better to keep your silence and let people wonder if you are fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. "Gonna." Pathetic. Simply pathetic. This is a hick like expression, akin to something on the order of, "I'm gonna open a can of whup ass on him for peggin Mary Joe Susie Lee."

There are many components to the Slashdot Omelette. Stories about Linux. Tech stories. Science. Legos. Book Reviews. Yes, even Jon Katz.
Jon Katz is the worst thing about this place. If it isn't the wasting of my bandwidth that I pay for, its this that bothers me the most. On a sidebar, I would like to hold you and the rest of the scum who send ad banners to my connection legally liable for unwanted bandwidth usage. This crap half the time doesn't even come from your site. It would be less of an affront if you stored you vile ads on your own site, but you took the easy way out and decided to outsource the production of garbage to similarly-devoid-of-ethics people with slightly more intelligence and infrastructure to provide this illegal content.

By mixing and matching these things each and every day, we bring you what I call Slashdot. On some days it definitely is better than others, but overall we think it's a tasty little treat and we hope you enjoy eating as much as we enjoy cooking it.
Grotesque things are often of huge interest to people. This holds true with me in regards to Slashdot. I hate you, I hate Jon Katz, I hate most of the content here. Some of the best stuff is written at -1. You would suppress those who are different while you are "different like everyone else," just another marginally educated half assed "programmer" who on the scale of things lucked out even more so than Bill Gates (reason: I would assume your IQ is probably his divided by 2 or 3 and you aren't working at a McDonald's where you should be). Whenever you have participated in a discussion thread, you are obnoxious, rude and ungrateful. You policies are horrible, you content is basically a smattering of other people's work and you benefit from this. You web page reeks of someone who completes nothing that he starts. Your obsession with anime is a testament to how juvenile you are, your spelling is horrific, you grammar is oft questionable; you are a poor editor Mr. Malda.

I hope only the worst outcomes for any and all of your endeavors henceforth. I hope your fiancée or if you are lucky, your marriage falls apart. I hope your Jubei breaks. I hope you lose your job. I hope that you fail because you are displacing true talent.

Answered by: CmdrTaco
Last Modified: 6/14/00

Alarm.

Linux Software

[Tony]

Okay, for all the "no linux software" posts:

libnjb is a fantastic Linux library for interfacing with the Nomad Jukebox. There are lots of links that take you to software.

Playing it up?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the reasons I like Apple better as a company over Creative.

I bought the 10 gig iPod, it's adveristed as having "2,000 songs in your pocket". If you go to the site, they clarify that you can fit much more if you use lower quality mp3s, you can fit more (and I do), but their advertising avoids being misleading in the least bit and simply states 2000. Now, by logic, shouldn't the Creative Nomad, with having a 20 gig harddrive, hold just double the amount the 10 gig iPod holds? Meaning 4000. However, Creative, being a company I've come to dislike, plays their advertising campaign to lower bit rate mp3s storage.

When my Nomad II MG had problems, Creative was really shitty about it. I wanted to switch over to the 10 gig after buying the 5 gig and the sales rep at Apple were joking around and going "I know exactly what you mean" and in days, the exchange had been made.

Differences in services, differences in companies hopefully = differences in sales and success.

Creative, here's how to increase your sales...

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Open up the firmware specs so people can write new firmware

2. Document 'SB 1394'

3. Wait a few days for someone to come up with a hack for nomad-to-nomad transfer

4. Fill orders as fast as possible before the call from Hillary Rosen

5. Fight or cave in, Apex-style. Your call.

Re:Creative, here's how to increase your sales...

[pacc]

While they're at it there's a couple of more "free" as in software-implementable features to add:

1. USB audio profile, making it an extigy.

2. Small host software to select songs on the
connected computer using the jukebox.

2. Firewire external storage.

Linux support

[rbb]

Will libnjb, which currently supports the NOMAD Jukebox, also support the NOMAD Jukebox3?

out??? not quite.

[jacobb]

It's officially available? yeah, right.

As of 17:22 Tuesday (PDT) it's not on:
Creative's online shop
Amazon's "Nomad Jukebox"... All Results page

Any even of my local retailers (check here).

I'd really be interested if anyone could tell me where to get one online.
Cheers!

Re:out??? not quite.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have heard May 2.

Random Mode

[phriedom]

The Nomad Jukebox does have Random and Shuffle modes. While playing, go to the DETAILS display by pressing the left softkey. The details display shows you the current song, artist, and album, and the right softkey button is now labeled MODE. Push this button. Shuffle mixes the order up and plays everything once. Random just goes on forever. Neither is actually random. It seems to pick one song from each album/playlist that you have in the queue and then skip to the next branch of the tree. From the same starting point, it will always play the songs in the same order, but pushing the "back" button will move to another song within that album/playlist, so you can mix up the order in real time. When I got my jukebox I thought that I would often put all 1500 songs into the queue and hit shuffle, but I usually just queue a few playlists at a time. Like Jazz+Blues or Alt80s+AltModern+AltGirlRock.

"audiophile"?

[Matthew Weigel]

Is it just me, or are they deliberately making fun of so-called audiophiles? "Enjoy audiophile quality playback anywhere" and "5000 songs at 128kbps" send two very, very different messages. I'm not an audiophile (I spent around $50 on my stereo receiver), or even someone who puts much effort into mp3 encoding... and I found 192 to be the range where my sucky hearing stopped detecting problems.

So are they going after audiophiles, or are they going after losers who believe Creative hype about what audiophiles use, need, and buy? For that matter, given Creative's history, why am I even asking this question? :-)

Bah. As soon as they or Rio start posting the weight of their devices when they begin the hype, instead of doing their best to make it look small, I'll pay attention. Until then, I know without picking one up that it's not what I want.

Try Ebay

[phriedom]

I got a 6GB Nomad Jukebox for $170 including shipping. New in box, not reconditioned, works perfectly.

Do some research..

[anonymouZ coward]

There already is software available that will let you use an iPod with a Winblows box.

Looks pretty full to me

[phriedom]

Quite a few people take them apart and put larger HDD in them. HERE are several pictures of the guts. It looks pretty full to me, because in addition to the HDD, there are 4 AA batteries, the power management and recharging circuitry, the decoding and audio processing stuff, an LCD, buttons, jacks, etc.

ehanced MP3 encoding

[phriedom]

Unless you want to listen to your music is Creative's own silly 4 speaker format, any MP3's, encoded with any old program work just fine. I used CDex.

Scaling Not New

[phriedom]

The existing Nomad Jukebox has scaling. from 0.5x speed to 1.4x speed. You don't have to buy the new one to get this. BUT, the recording is only in .WAV format.

I actually chose the Nomad2 over the IPod....

[cyberon22]

What clinched it for me was the recording capabilities of the Nomad. I needed something portable to record large high-quality .wav files. VERY useful for portable dubbing from a variety of audio sources I can't just hook up to my comp.

But it isn't really a portable player, and I doubt this new one is either. If the claims/performance ratio on the Nomad3 holds constant from the version I have, Creative's 11 hours of playing time will probably net the average user 3 hours of power.

That being said, I don't quite understand why adding firewire support suddenly makes the new product newsworthy.

Re:I actually chose the Nomad2 over the IPod....

[ZxCv]

That being said, I don't quite understand why adding firewire support suddenly makes the new product newsworthy.

To quite a few people, myself included, the one drawback to the Nomad2 that killed its chances was that it could only interface over USB. Transferring even 5 or 10GB over USB is painfully slow compared to FireWire. However, with FireWire capability, the Nomad3 is a real option in my eyes now.

iPod killers

[Aiku1337]

Its been like, what, 6 months since the iPods have come out. I figure a standard development cycles for such a device would be what, a year, year and a half? Maybe in the next few months we'll start to see some REAL mp3 killers. At least creative added 1394 to this thing, thus raising the bar for every other non-iPod hard drive based mp3 player.

Or maybe Apple with beat them all and just release an iPod with iTunes for the PC. That would be the sweetest thing.

Re:iPod killers

[BenTheDewpendent]

the terrapin mine kicks ass. its got network and usb master and slave granted its meant to be a multiple use tool i would use it as a mp3 device anyday. so it doesnt have firewire and it takes a lil while to transfer to its only 10 gig harddrive. but i doubt i will be listing to 10gigs of music in one sitting or trip to anyplace anytime soon.

and it stores pics from digital camera. i take this and my digital camera on a trip with me and i dont need a laptop to store my pics when i fill my card and and listen to some tunes too.

Size

[ajiva]

Why didn't creative at least try to make the thing smaller? Why does it have to look like a CD Player?

Re: for those too lazy to click on the link

[56ker]

Updated Slashdot Advertising Policy Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday April 01, @05:13PM from the tightening-our-belts dept. In response to increased advertiser demand, we have decided that we will post one story a day paid for directly by our advertisers. These paid "Slashvertisements" will appear daily amidst the normal stories you read here. Our first Slashvertisement is for our sister site, ThinkGeek, stuff for smart masses. From Linus' Autobiography to 42" Plasma Screens and Caffeine Products Galore, ThinkGeek has everything you need, except love. But enough of their gift certificates could bribe your way to that too! And check out their current exciting specials!. Also at the request of our advertisers, anonymous posting has been disabled. If you are interested in reaching quality demographics using Slashvertisements for your company, or just have questions about the new ad policy, email Hemos

Nomad 3 Review

[asv108]

The first hands on review of the nomad 3 is available here.

The battery life and firewire

[kninja]

I read the review noted a few comments above, and they said that it is compatible with regular old firewire.

I said I'd always wait for something with decent battery life, and a big hard drive. This is it.

The previous problems were not enough memory and plenty of battery life, or a big hdd, and not enough battery life ~4 hours. This will be a big seller, assuming the price is under 500 USD. No price that I could find. I sure hope it's not 800, because then I'd buy a laptop.

And they thought 20GB was a whole lot...

[ihtagik]

According to this CNET page [cnet.com] Creative might also come out with a 40GB version with 16MB of on board DRAM. With the File Manager & PlayCenter software bundle this should make for an interesting iPod alternative...wouldn't you say?

Re:And they thought 20GB was a whole lot...

[ericdano]

Why stop at 16 Megs? The iPod has 128 Megs of Ram.

I'm very interested in this new Creative thing. A fellow teacher has one hooked up to his Laptop via iTunes and he can use that slick interface to play songs on the his Creative device. It's pretty nice.

Re:And they thought 20GB was a whole lot...

[spectecjr]

Why stop at 16 Megs? The iPod has 128 Megs of Ram.

I've never understood that so-called "skip-proof" 'feature' of the iPod.

Surely, as everything is solid-state except the hard drive, if the drive 'skips', your data is gone because you've just had a hard-crash on your device?

Other than that... 128Mb? You're kidding, right? Are you sure it isn't 128kb?

Simon

Re:And they thought 20GB was a whole lot...

[ericdano]

Oops, I meant 32 megs of ram

http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

And it buffers a bunch of songs into memory then spins down the hard drive, thus making it less likely to get jarred and crash........

who is the robot here

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a robot like you. I don't like having disks crammed into me... unless they're Oreos, and then only in the mouth. -- Fry

seriously, how many times has this been the fortune cookie quote on slashdot? what is going on here? is the PRNG wacked out? i don't like the smell of it!

Jukebox 3 Review!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a review for it. Seems like a pretty good player but still has some faults:

http://www.tbreak.com/hard/mp3/crtv_jukeboxv3/in de x.html

Re:Jukebox 3 Review!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.tbreak.com/hard/mp3/crtv_jukeboxv3

But does the UI still suck?

[xarender]

I have a Nomad Jukebox and I have been very, very, VERY disappointed with the "user-interface" on the thing. There is no quick access to songs (by first letter or such), so you have to scroll down linearly through your entire collection to find an album, artist, or title. This is made even more painful because the thing becomes very sluggish and the scrolling has "hiccups" while a song is actually playing. Mine takes over a minute to boot (not an exaggeration), frequently will hang with a "Please Wait..." message for a good 20-30 seconds when switching modes (normal/random) or navigating a large playlist.

Not to mention that the interface menus are laid out inconsistently, and it has two modes you have to switch back and forth between just to create a playlist. The physical button layout is very inergonomic and difficult to manipulate without looking while driving.

I just took my Nomad on a road trip and I honestly had to spend several minutes explaining the interface to my friend (an engineer) just so he could operate it while I was driving. In terms of ease-of-use, it's the exact opposite of an iPod. By the end of the trip we were ready to chuck the thing into the Grand Canyon.

The point of this tirade: don't waste your money on a Nomad 3, at least not unless they've spent a lot of time improving what must be one of the worst interfaces ever designed.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the unit locks up playing some mp3's (possibly the mp3's had encoding errors, but still...), and the Creative PlayCenter software you use to download songs crashes constantly when transferring, even after several upgrades to both it and the Nomad firmware.

Re:But does the UI still suck?

[c0d1]

Further, the delays got worse as you added more songs...I would estimate that it took up to five minutes to boot when fully loaded with MP3s.

It was pretty obvious to me that they were rebuilding the master lists on every boot and rebuilding the interface scroll widgets whenever you switched around.

The boot delay was particularly stupid because they had a hard drive available for static storage of the playlists!

Also, since it could only display four or five items in a list at a time, it should have been very quick to switch menus (ie draw the visible four items immediately and continue building the scroll widget, if necessary, in the background).

Basically, the Nomad sucked in practical use and Creative failed to fix their UI problems after much time and grumbling by their customer base, so I finally disassembled it to salvage the hard drive for something useful.

On the bright side, I guess this should be a comforting sign of job security to me as an embedded software developer. I cannot imagine ever being so brain dead that I would write crap as obviously broken as this.

Seriously, do NOT buy the new Nomad Jukebox from Creative. Even if they have fixed some of their issues with this new model, they have already shown themselves to be totally irresponsible about their initial QA as well as continued support of products that they have already sold.

Why it is the way it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi every body.
I work at IDE Inc. (www.ideinc.com) in Scotts Valley, Ca. We are a design consultancy.
We did the industrial design and the mechanical design/design engineering for Creative Labs original Nomad Jukebox. I did a lot of work making it look and feel like it does. It is a portable jukebox, in that it is a jukebox full of your favorite tunes that can be taken with you, not a truly portable music player that is designed to play music as it moves with you. That was Creative Labs being creative.
I agree with one of those who posted on this topic, that the UI could have been better, IDE did not develop the software UI (sub-menu's and such), Creative Labs did. The physical key layout was partially from a traditional tape transport (play, stop, f-forward, etc.)combined with some other function keys (soft keys?) that relate to functions on the display.
The industrial design "aesthetic solution" has a nautical influence, sea creatures to be precise. Music to me is like the sea, always flowing and it is every time different. I grew up by the sea, and surf real salt water waves when I can. There are subtle details in the case that create an association to other products in Creative Labs family. If you look at the LCD display in plan view you will see a soft gull-wing curve along the top edge, above the ports. This curve is shared with other products made by Creative Labs. I integrated this soft gull-wing into many features on the case. Integrating this common element into most of the form and its details really makes this product flow visually, like the ocean and like music. I know that some of you can't follow what I am saying (its late for me, so my apologies). Maybe some of you dislike the aesthetic design solution, no problem, that is your subjective opinion.One poster didn't understand why the case was not a rectangle, Creative did some research and found that most people in their target group (not techies) found the form factor easy to accept into their lifestyles, its a device the size of a portable CD player that plays music (lots of music). Most CD players are not rectangular, so the device had to have some other shape, not necessarily round, but something that stood apart from other "cookie cutter" objects on the shelf. It also had to have some visual association with other products in Creative Labs product line, as explained earlier. Thank you for expressing your opinions, I really gain a lot of insight from your comments, they are all very much appreciated. Take care one and all.

Nomad 6GB@$155 , 10GB@$215 @ www.focusebiz.com

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe how cheap this is!
You can buy the A Nomad 10Gb for $215.

http://www.focusebiz.com

jukebox C vs iPod

[nikster]

features was not the problem with the old Creative Nomad Jukebox. i had both the jukebox C (collecting dust in the corner, anyone want one?) and the iPod. the iPod works. here is why the jukebox doesn't:

- retarded interface. looking at the pic, i doubt it has improved. the buttons are randomly scattered over the surface. there is no concept behind it... switching songs, searching for songs, all really stupid.
- battery life less that 4 hours. it seems the new one fixes this issue.
- completely retarded way of copying files on windows. the jukebox would NOT appear as a HD on the desktop. instead, one had to use proprietary software which was - at least for me - impossible to use.
- it's huge + heavy.

it will be interesting to see how the interface has improved in the new verision. one can only hope that Creative has borrowed heavily from iPod... i mean, how hard can it be? a 99% perfect interface is already out, all you have to do is copy it.

wow

[Anonymous Coward]

i can now walk in a compusa and copy 20 gigs worth of software in no time! oh wait...wrong device.

Ogg ogg ogg

[jt007]

For all those who are banging on about ogg here is something intresting that is mentioned in the review by T-Break.com

"Another good thing going to the Jukebox 3 is the upgradeable firmware meaning possible support for more audio formats like Ogg Vorbis."

Re:Ogg ogg ogg

[SomeOtherGuy]

>> "Another good thing going to the Jukebox 3 is the upgradeable firmware meaning possible support for more audio formats like Ogg Vorbis."

I think every player out there has said this. It's in the boilerplate promo kit that is sold by hardware based digital audio companies everywhere. Bottom line is to read between the lines --- "If we really wanted to support OGG we would out of the box -- but by saying that it is possible in the future we move 10% more units, then so be it, because the lifecycle for an individuale portable mp3 model (in the marketplace) is akin to a 2001 calendar in December of said year...."

Nomad Pukebox

[Anonymous Coward]

Nomad Pukebox

iPod and windows

[GreenKiwi]

If you want to use your iPod on a windows based machine, just grab xplay

Works like a charm!

Creative: Where's my original NJB remote control?

[deggy]

I'm never buying a cretive product again since they failed to release a remote for the original NJB despite basicly telling people they would.
Now i'm left with something that's only about half as useful as it could me (i.e. having to get up and move across the room everytime I want to change tracks) Thanks for nothing Creative.

Not quite there yet

[tempfile]

Those things are improving, but this isn't quite there yet. There are some most simple features that are lacking:
1. I want analog and digital input jacks. Not everybody (me) stores music exclusively on their PC. And some people (me) might even want to record music from analog media to their portable player.
2. I want that jack to be able to record Ogg Vorbis. Advantages for the user would be better sound quality than mp3 or WMA, advantages for Creative would be that they needn't pay royalties as they would have to with mp3 recording.
3. I want Vorbis playback, of course.
4. Damn it, who the hell needs 20 GB of storage? They advertise this as space for 333 hours of music in mediocre quality. I'd rather have 128 MB memory cards, with 90 minutes of hifi music on each, with an open standard filesystem to promote exchangeability between devices using the same type of media.

When a digital music player with those features comes out, it will be a definite buy for me. Too bad that I lack the engineering skills to make my own Embedded Linux device.

Re:Not quite there yet

[tempfile]

Silly me. The Nomad 3 has an analog/digital input jack. Which leaves only support of open standards on my wishlist.

Read the title wrong...

[KristoferP]

Thought it said:
Jomad Nukebox

Sounded alot more interesting

not said enough - can't upload music

[tchdab1]

While this is potentially redundant (I saw it above, but not prominently) it deserves repeating: you can't upload music that you download onto this device. This feature was omitted to keep us from spreading content.
Personally, I would not pay several hundred dollars for a device crippled for no other reason than the makers appear to fear the wrath of the copyright holders. I would like to handle and copy all my legal content as I see fit, not be treated as a criminal out-of-the-box, so to speak.

Major Device Flaw, meet Private Interests: attention!.

Re:not said enough - can't upload music

[Anonymous Coward]

This is also on IPods, and I'm not sure about the Riot, or Archos, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had the same kind of protection programs. The thing is though it probably woun't even take a week after it's out for a hack for this problem to become readily available.

Re:not said enough - can't upload music

[tchdab1]

The Archos can upload and download without restriction, like an external hard drive with an MP3 player built-on.

5 minutes??

[phriedom]

I just timed it, my full 6GB jukebox takes 40 seconds to boot, and I have several playlists. I think you have a problem with your ID3 tags or corrupt MP3 files. Another thing you should try is forcing a rebuild of the index. Hold down the right and left softkeys (the top buttons) during the boot to get to the utilities menu.

You guys are ridiculous...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's truly pathetic how over 75% of your blabbering contains complaints... and it's even more pathetic how your justifications for why the new nomad sucks are completely false! Granted, the first Nomad Jukebox sucked, but if you even gave 5 minutes of research time to this product, you would see how almost every negative aspect of the original has been fixed.

You complain that the thing is too big, but what you don't realize is that it's not meant to be carried on your hip while walking or jogging. Hell, I wouldn't jog with any hard drive based MP3 player, including your precious iPOD. You complain how the interface sucks, but you don't realize is that it has been completely redesigned. You complain how Creative's use of the term 'Audiophile' is an insult to the real audiophiles, when in fact the technical specs for audio for this MP3 Player are the best yet. I could go on for a while but I've wasted enough of my time.

Before giving anymore of your baseless opinions, read a full review at

http://www.tbreak.com/hard/mp3/crtv_jukeboxv3/in de x.html

or try the player first-handed.

ogg vorbis!

[Anonymous Coward]

what about playing ogg files?