Linux-m68k for amigaOS had a/dev/z2ram-device that could take memory from "anyplace" including CV64 onboard memory. I did this a lot when 16M ram was "ok" and those extra 4M's on the gfxcard made a difference. Under AmigaOS, you could pick up an "AddMem" program and just add the memory at 0x41400000. Even though it wasn't added to the free list for amigaos, it was always mapped into the memoryspace.
Also, at the time when PF got usable, it had less
lines of code, than all the combined #ifdef/#endif-
lines in IPF.
Of course it's no conclusive "evidence", but it sure
makes you wonder if someone else can read the code
like it is going to be run when looking for a
possible bug in your favourite OS+IPF.
I'm into the thoughts of:
"If I want a cvs server, and install free*nix X to
run it" and I haven't decided yet which *nix that
would be and I had to choose between equally well
working OS:es, I'd go for the "no remote hole in
4 years" just because I'd have a better chance of
that one not being remotely compromised over some
jack-ass imapd/ntp/statd-exploit that had nothing
at all to do with my machine in the first place.
Of course, my goal might have been to run a public
lpd-server, but still not having everything on
makes you one bit safer and lets each activated
service be secure on its own merits instead of
being at the mercy of hoping that noone finds
another bug in a gazillion other daemons that for
some reason are turned on.
>Journalling is one solution to the problem, and soft updates is another.
>Each is worthwhile within its own contexts.
Still, there are differences. Using a JFS might
require you to actually change to a new FS (except ext3)
whereas softupdates doesn't change anything at all
on the filesystem at all. It's just a new way
for the OS to order the "same old" writes so that
you gain performance without giving fsck a hard
time.
>He is the EXACT reason why I won't run Open BSD >on my systems (I will admit that I use OpenSSH >though).
So in what way does he affect your computers?
You still can DL and install bernstein stuff.
>The old addage of you can catch more flies with >honey than vinigar needs to be tought to Theo.
Actually, he is following the wishes of the
license. The license says "dont redist" and he
doesn't. Why does Dan get upset for someone
following his wishes?
>If he TRULY wants to have people using his OS, >then he needs to take a chill pill and STOP >ACTING CHILDISH
Actually, I can't think that you will find such
a reference. You most probablt will find only
texts saying "OpenBSD is free for all", rather
than "OpenBSD should be used by all".
Another thing here is that OpenBSD didn't just
consider this from one perspective (the single user)
but also from companies and other organizations
that might use ipf with local modifications.
The goal is to have something that can be used,
modified and redistributed again, without you
having to read every source looking for licenses.
With the Net/FreeBSD going by some (IMHO) weird
middleway option that somewhat goes like:
"We can use it since Darren says so" you end up
in a strange position if you use the otherwise
free OSes but have to exclude ipf in case you
modified it ever so slightly.
Also, you can't do a "Theo" and fork off Free or
NetBSD and make it MyBSD+ipf. Or rather, if you
do, you can't patch ipf. It's weird having an OS
with a kernel that allows you to change 99% of it
but not all, isn't it?
First of all, really few need to have a disc
that is bootable on a sparc, that contains a
mac68k-kernel and have precompiled stuff for
pmax'es. Most people need the x86 files, and
those files are *easily* ftp:d from the main
ftp server, put on any cd9660 and then used from
the floppy install. There is no *real* need to
have the original ISO's if you want to grab
obsd-for-your-pc for free. Secondly, as many
will point out, it would be nice if you helped
the project out with few few bucks that a real
cd will cost you. Still, if you want to leech
openbsd for your single platform, you'd be silly
to download all other platforms. Noone ever
downloads debian for m68k on their pc's just
to have "the latest", do they? =)
>I realize you were joking but...
> MS would never say nasty things about the BSD's
> since their TCP/IP stack and kerberos are
> largely based on BSD code.
Kerberos as found in Win is based on code
under the BSD license. That is not the same as
"code used in BSD operating systems".
You might have an otherwise busy computer
that is serving thousands of httpd requests
from harddisk and your filesystem cache is
flushing itself over and over again, and you
still want netscapes cachefiles to be in a
speedy environment?
Of course, having more RAM than disk is a fine
solution when the OS buffers with your free mem,
but obviously everyone can't have that.
Having a dynamic ramdisk (like/tmp on solaris
and the aforementioned amiga-ramdisks) is quite
a big win speedwise for many kinds of situations.
As long as you have free mem, tempfilecreation
will go nearly as fast as ram allows, and whenever
it gets full, you get swapspeed, which is more or
less what you would have gotten in the first place
with the cache on local disk anyhow.
Well, if you owned a source-license for AFS before
you'd still not get everything, like the efs/xfs
that's needed to run a AFS server on Irix. My
guess is that those parts are what keeps them
from releasing everything. What you _did_ get
if you had a source license was enough to make
yourself a server and clients.
Yes, as if the Linux crowd didn't already have
that problem for a long time (except Alpha folks)
so I can't imagine why the slashdot community
would see _this_ issue as a big one. I mean,
clean up your own act first...
meaning that you can go build whatever backends you like that works on the .o outputs from gcc and does the final parts itself without altering gcc.
As someone said, they do provide the source, so this is a non-issue, but since gcc is just a launcher for cpp,cc1 and so on, you could easily exchange one part with your own prop. SW without breaking the GPL.
>Disk > There is an IDE driver on it's way > (Only tested on one machine, and not > part of the current distro). > But generally all disk access is done > through the BIOS, so most IDE and SCSSI > disks should work. > I even boot AtheOS from my panic ZIP disk > every now and then.
This also means that you get all BIOS-related problems like 1024-cylinder-stuff. 8-(
Well, you could always get into a situation where you could choose between a new cpu and ~6 more encryption cards if they are cheap.
If you haven't got a dual-cpu motherboard, or are running on some platform for which SMP isn't supported yet, you probably want to have it on the network card anyway.
Then again, just because your average redhat x86 box happens to compile your app, doesn't mean that it does on a similar alpha or sparc redhat box, since the endianess/64bit issues still may bite you.
Sure, you go a big step towards portability if you get it to compile cleanly on some linux and some *BSD, but I still feel that different platforms would be preferable.
Still, lets not forget that this person *might* do something in the future which may impact on OpenSSH. He might start distributing non- working or broken/viral versions or worse.
I know nothing about de Joode, so I'm not accusing anyone here, but the possibility exists so I can understand the concerns OpenSSH.com might have. Still, it's a bit on the harsh side.
The AFS/DFS snapshots (which soft-updates might include in a *BSD near you any year now =) are only taken so often, so you can't unpack an archive, delete it, accidentally rm -rf the new directory and get it back, unless someone did a snapshot somewhere in between. Snapshots _are_ cool, but they can't solve all problems. If you snapshot every 4 hours, someone will ask for a 2 hour old file, you can count on that. =)
It was the same way for the swedish guy that had links to mp3's, and the swedish courts freed him on that account. (Don't know if he was accused of anything else though)
If you disallow linking to (potentially?) offensive/illegal material by law, you get into a situation that I think equals a person pointing at robbers hurrying out of a bank with money flying all around them.
And other people picks that money up. And the cops arrive at the scene and arrests the person that _points_ to the money. Not the robbers, not the people that collect the bills, but the person that says that there are money here you can pick up.
Then again, Macs never came in literally thousands of different versions, with a thousand possible add-on cards to go with that. Autodetecting and autoinstalling for x86 is a pain for all OS:es. Try Linux for other-than-x86 and it probably will be easier still.
I just wonder, exactly how easy is it to install Windows while still keeping another already installed OS? All this "Linux requires partitioning which confuses the hell out of people" makes me wonder how newbies would feel about installing windows on a Linux box without destroying the existing Linux, since that is the way most people install Linux the first few times.
Slashdot Mirror
Linux-m68k for amigaOS had a /dev/z2ram-device that
could take memory from "anyplace" including CV64
onboard memory. I did this a lot when 16M ram was
"ok" and those extra 4M's on the gfxcard made a
difference.
Under AmigaOS, you could pick up an "AddMem" program
and just add the memory at 0x41400000. Even though it
wasn't added to the free list for amigaos, it was
always mapped into the memoryspace.
Also, at the time when PF got usable, it had less
lines of code, than all the combined #ifdef/#endif-
lines in IPF.
Of course it's no conclusive "evidence", but it sure
makes you wonder if someone else can read the code
like it is going to be run when looking for a
possible bug in your favourite OS+IPF.
I'm into the thoughts of:
"If I want a cvs server, and install free*nix X to
run it" and I haven't decided yet which *nix that
would be and I had to choose between equally well
working OS:es, I'd go for the "no remote hole in
4 years" just because I'd have a better chance of
that one not being remotely compromised over some
jack-ass imapd/ntp/statd-exploit that had nothing
at all to do with my machine in the first place.
Of course, my goal might have been to run a public
lpd-server, but still not having everything on
makes you one bit safer and lets each activated
service be secure on its own merits instead of
being at the mercy of hoping that noone finds
another bug in a gazillion other daemons that for
some reason are turned on.
>Journalling is one solution to the problem, and soft updates is another.
>Each is worthwhile within its own contexts.
Still, there are differences. Using a JFS might
require you to actually change to a new FS (except ext3)
whereas softupdates doesn't change anything at all
on the filesystem at all. It's just a new way
for the OS to order the "same old" writes so that
you gain performance without giving fsck a hard
time.
>He is the EXACT reason why I won't run Open BSD >on my systems (I will admit that I use OpenSSH >though).
So in what way does he affect your computers?
You still can DL and install bernstein stuff.
>The old addage of you can catch more flies with >honey than vinigar needs to be tought to Theo.
Actually, he is following the wishes of the
license. The license says "dont redist" and he
doesn't. Why does Dan get upset for someone
following his wishes?
>If he TRULY wants to have people using his OS, >then he needs to take a chill pill and STOP >ACTING CHILDISH
Actually, I can't think that you will find such
a reference. You most probablt will find only
texts saying "OpenBSD is free for all", rather
than "OpenBSD should be used by all".
Another thing here is that OpenBSD didn't just
consider this from one perspective (the single user)
but also from companies and other organizations
that might use ipf with local modifications.
The goal is to have something that can be used,
modified and redistributed again, without you
having to read every source looking for licenses.
With the Net/FreeBSD going by some (IMHO) weird
middleway option that somewhat goes like:
"We can use it since Darren says so" you end up
in a strange position if you use the otherwise
free OSes but have to exclude ipf in case you
modified it ever so slightly.
Also, you can't do a "Theo" and fork off Free or
NetBSD and make it MyBSD+ipf. Or rather, if you
do, you can't patch ipf. It's weird having an OS
with a kernel that allows you to change 99% of it
but not all, isn't it?
The release contains what was "-current" as of
a few weeks ago. The CD burning factory needs more
than a couple of seconds to burn all those CDs.
At that time, the ipf thing hadn't started.
The release is the same as the CD contents.
Therefore, 2.9 has ipf.
It does.
First of all, really few need to have a disc
that is bootable on a sparc, that contains a
mac68k-kernel and have precompiled stuff for
pmax'es. Most people need the x86 files, and
those files are *easily* ftp:d from the main
ftp server, put on any cd9660 and then used from
the floppy install. There is no *real* need to
have the original ISO's if you want to grab
obsd-for-your-pc for free. Secondly, as many
will point out, it would be nice if you helped
the project out with few few bucks that a real
cd will cost you. Still, if you want to leech
openbsd for your single platform, you'd be silly
to download all other platforms. Noone ever
downloads debian for m68k on their pc's just
to have "the latest", do they? =)
>I realize you were joking but...
> MS would never say nasty things about the BSD's
> since their TCP/IP stack and kerberos are
> largely based on BSD code.
Kerberos as found in Win is based on code
under the BSD license. That is not the same as
"code used in BSD operating systems".
Other OS:es clear /tmp regurlarly while
/tmp after a reboot isn't _that_ unusual
booting, so having stuff disappear on you
from
anyway.
You might have an otherwise busy computer
/tmp on solaris
that is serving thousands of httpd requests
from harddisk and your filesystem cache is
flushing itself over and over again, and you
still want netscapes cachefiles to be in a
speedy environment?
Of course, having more RAM than disk is a fine
solution when the OS buffers with your free mem,
but obviously everyone can't have that.
Having a dynamic ramdisk (like
and the aforementioned amiga-ramdisks) is quite
a big win speedwise for many kinds of situations.
As long as you have free mem, tempfilecreation
will go nearly as fast as ram allows, and whenever
it gets full, you get swapspeed, which is more or
less what you would have gotten in the first place
with the cache on local disk anyhow.
Nah, the project got two that I know of,
but none of them went to Theo.
Well, if you owned a source-license for AFS before
you'd still not get everything, like the efs/xfs
that's needed to run a AFS server on Irix. My
guess is that those parts are what keeps them
from releasing everything. What you _did_ get
if you had a source license was enough to make
yourself a server and clients.
> it doesn't work well for big files
Yes, as if the Linux crowd didn't already have
that problem for a long time (except Alpha folks)
so I can't imagine why the slashdot community
would see _this_ issue as a big one. I mean,
clean up your own act first...
Then again, it could be like:
ps -elf | grep -v grep | my_backend
meaning that you can go build
whatever backends you like that works on the
.o outputs from gcc and does the final parts
itself without altering gcc.
As someone said, they do provide the source, so
this is a non-issue, but since gcc is just a
launcher for cpp,cc1 and so on, you could easily
exchange one part with your own prop. SW without
breaking the GPL.
>Disk
> There is an IDE driver on it's way
> (Only tested on one machine, and not
> part of the current distro).
> But generally all disk access is done
> through the BIOS, so most IDE and SCSSI
> disks should work.
> I even boot AtheOS from my panic ZIP disk
> every now and then.
This also means that you get all BIOS-related
problems like 1024-cylinder-stuff. 8-(
Well, you could always get into a situation
where you could choose between a new cpu
and ~6 more encryption cards if they are cheap.
If you haven't got a dual-cpu motherboard, or
are running on some platform for which SMP isn't
supported yet, you probably want to have it on
the network card anyway.
As are all other *nixes that run KDE,Gnome and
Xfree.
Then again, just because your average redhat x86
box happens to compile your app, doesn't mean
that it does on a similar alpha or sparc redhat
box, since the endianess/64bit issues still may
bite you.
Sure, you go a big step towards portability
if you get it to compile cleanly on some linux
and some *BSD, but I still feel that different
platforms would be preferable.
Still, lets not forget that this person *might*
do something in the future which may impact
on OpenSSH. He might start distributing non-
working or broken/viral versions or worse.
I know nothing about de Joode, so I'm not accusing
anyone here, but the possibility exists so I can
understand the concerns OpenSSH.com might have.
Still, it's a bit on the harsh side.
The AFS/DFS snapshots (which soft-updates might
include in a *BSD near you any year now =) are
only taken so often, so you can't unpack an archive, delete it, accidentally rm -rf the new
directory and get it back, unless someone did a
snapshot somewhere in between.
Snapshots _are_ cool, but they can't solve all
problems.
If you snapshot every 4 hours, someone will ask
for a 2 hour old file, you can count on that. =)
It was the same way for the swedish guy that had
links to mp3's, and the swedish courts freed him
on that account. (Don't know if he was accused of
anything else though)
If you disallow linking to (potentially?)
offensive/illegal material by law, you get into
a situation that I think equals a person pointing
at robbers hurrying out of a bank with money flying all around them.
And other people picks that money up.
And the cops arrive at the scene and arrests the
person that _points_ to the money.
Not the robbers, not the people that collect the
bills, but the person that says that there are
money here you can pick up.
Awful.
Then again, Macs never came in literally thousands of different versions, with a thousand possible add-on cards to go with that. Autodetecting and autoinstalling for x86 is a pain for all OS:es. Try Linux for other-than-x86 and it probably will be easier still.
I just wonder, exactly how easy is it to install
Windows while still keeping another already installed OS?
All this "Linux requires partitioning which confuses the hell out of people" makes me wonder how newbies would feel about installing windows on a Linux box without destroying the existing Linux, since that is the way most people install Linux the first few times.
--