When you extend the pipeline, you loose performance at same clock. People use a longer pipeline to jack up the MHz a cpu on a particular process can do.
for example: Motorola made a new G4 chip recently with a longer pipeline than the classic G4 chip. At the same clock, the OLDER g4 is a faster cpu. Only does the new G4 compete w/ the older one when it[the new one] is clocked from 500MHz up to 700MHz. In other words, they raised the clock up by 200MHz, but gained no performance increase over the older model. They also gained the potential to raise the clock speed slightly higher now, (800MHz now?) which is slightly faster than the classic G4 CPU(but not much, as benchmarks show). So in reality, the MHz is more, but no performance is gained. This is what the poster was saying about "inflating MHz"
Intel did the same thing on the p4. Basically, the p4 has an ungodly long pipeline. for branch mispredicitons, there is a HUGE penalty, etc. Which i won't get into, because it could take pages to describe how a CPU works to you.
Comparing that to AMD's chips, they do the same work in less stages of the pipe, but it is clocked at a lower frequency. In the end, this is how AMD chips perform better than intel chips clocked at higher frequency. If you have any other questions about how the 2 CPU's differ, feel free to reply and we can continue the discussion.
"Apple has tried to educate the consumer about the reality of clock speed, and they failed. "
They failed because what they tried to teach wasn't reality. the G4 doesn't score any better in overall benchmarks than any other CPU, clock for clock, or even when both are at their max MHz (ie, a g4 maxed out in MHz does NOT beat a athlon or p4 maxed out in MHz in more than a couple obscure photoshop benchmarks) Overall, photoshop benchmarks (which are the only ones apple ever uses to compare itself to x86) are better on x86 in almost EVERY filter except the 6 filters that Apple publishes on their website.
AMD will fall into the same problem as apple. no marketshare, nothing. Cyrix tried this with their PR bullshit, and it didn't work. you cant sell a 1.4GHz athlon at P1600 on the high end when intel is selling REAL 2.0GHz p4's.
IMO, this is the stupidest thing AMD could have done. they just need to go ahead and ship their desktop Athlon4 as fast as they can, and go for it. If they are having trouble with yields, then they should extend their pipe stages like Motorolla did on the G4. At least they could have something to give to their marketing idiots.
"Of course the higher prices you pay for a Mac can be justified by a stable PC, good support, compatability, etc.... "
Well, I guess this was just someone trolling, but oh well:
I'm sorry, but a mac is no more stable than a PC. in fact, much less so. There are a few models on the Apple product line that are stable as hell, and then you have a few that are just plain shit.
Then there is dell and gateway's managed platforms. which pretty much blow apple out of the water in stability, performance, and price.
And now that you mention support, you can pretty much mark Apple off your top 3 when it comes to that. If you consider support to be > 1week turnaround times on repairs, $50 CC charges to schedule a WARRANTY repair with their tech support, etc, then i guess you can say Apple has it all. But they cant even touch the repair speed of dell and gateway. Not only that, but they break less often (its called testing, something apple doesnt do much of. want proof? Just take a look at apple's TiBook, which only goes up to 50 ft with airport card, and the origional iMac's lifespan, and the PB G3 wallstreet's lifespan)
Now you go on to compatibility. welp, we all know you are an idiot now, so you might just want to stay quiet on this point.
At the risk of feeding a troll, here is how it really is.
Apple charges a 50$ service fee if you don't want them to wipe the hard drive when sent in for service. If you choose this fee, they will backup yoru hard drive and put it into a "old data" folder after installing a clean MacOS system.
Not only this, but they give you the OPTION of backing it up but "only if required"
I sent a laptop back to be repaired, and said to backup the hdd if they need to wipe it. They wiped the hard drive, backed it up, and charged me $50 even though they only replaced the LCD pannel. this is fucking bullshit. another time, i sent one back which needed another sound board put in, and they wiped that hard drive too. only we didnt ask for the 50$ fee.
The point is this: It is a support nightmare to have to deal with people's data. If you send your computer into ANY shop to be fixed, i dont care WHERE you send it, don't trust your data with them. EVERY FUCKING vender and repair shop in existance has no liability for your data. Your data is NOT covered under the manufacturer's warranty. and they even say this before you send it off. if you didn't know that, then you didn't pay attention.
they aren't on the trackpad. my thinkpad has 3 buttons built in. Apple computers only come wiht 1 button on the track pad, there is no way to "add" a new mouse button without buying a whole new EXTERNAL mouse. which i dont need on a laptop. (ie, the purpose of a laptop is to use it on your lap, not for your office machine)
PRICE was mentioned because some mac zealot claimed that apple hardware isnt at a premium. We were proving him different.
As far as customer and user satisfaction. that is UTTER bullshit. Apple has one of the worst customer satisfaction department's in the industry. Only apple charges you by CC if you need to call tech support and make a warranty claim. Only apple will make you get your computer repaired if it comes in DOA, insted of sending you a new one (if i buy a new computer, it dame well better be new, now a refurb) They use refurb parts for repairing computers, and if it comes in DOA, then you get a refurb MOBO, or whatever is broken, that is unacceptable.
In the end, when its all said and done, i see more unhappy mac users than happy ones. Yet they still stay with apple because that is all they know how to use. too bad for them:(
It has nothing to do with AASP's. I do the same job that you do man. It all has to do with dealing with the entity known as Apple. Not the AASP's. An AASP is just a computer shop that does contract work for apple. I am talking about apple's policy on support. PAY them money to talk to them on the phone. PAY them money before you can get your laptop sent to them in the mail, then they refund you. it is fucking more of the same old jerking the customer off. Its unacceptable to not be able to call tech support to get your hardware replaced when it fails.
EVERY laptop I listed here has tap and double tap on the trackpad. AND they come with 2 mouse buttons.
As far as battery life comes, the iBook has not much more battery life. their "up to 5 hours" means it will work for 5 hours UNDER IDLE. if you are watching a DVD, the time drops dramatically to below 2 hours (fact: you cannot watch a full length DVD on a single charged iBook, nor can you on a PC)
the compaq I listed comes with TWO 4 hour batteries. don't gime this crap about the g3's longer battery life, because it does NOT exist in mass quantities as you think it does.
Not to mention, that in the PC world, we dont cripple built in features to try to sell higher end laptops. when a chipset comes with high resolution video out, the manufacturer uses it. In apple land, they disable anything above 1024 because they want to rip the customer off on the TiBook.
the iBook is crippled by apple to try to keep the g4 sales up. People who need the high resolution video on the iBook are SOL and are forced into the G4.
the same goes for high performance memory buss. Apple has purposely clocked down the motherboard chipset to make it run at 66MHz. This iBook uses the same chipset as the 100MHz busses on other product lines. This is bogus of apple.
I like the style of the iBook. It has a nice feel to it. But you can get the same things from Sony, IBM, Gateway, Dell, Compaq, etc for cheaper, and faster.
the iBook is probably their lowest profit margins. and that is pathetic. for equivilently speed/featured laptops to match up with the TiBook, you pay hundreds less in the x86 world. (and get expansion slots)
I am sick and tired of Mac Zealots saying that apple hardware doesnt cost a PREMIUM. here is fucking PROOF. (no, this is not a troll, and it shouldn't be moderated as such)
FROM APPLE:
500-MHz PowerPC G3 processor
256KB on-chip level 2 cache
66-MHz system bus [GROSE GROSE GROSE]
64MB of PC100 SDRAM [If you are gonna solder on memory, at least make it 128 for base price, just more jerking the customer off here ie: have to pay extra if you want to max the ram out, they tax you on the ram, reguardless if you buy from them, or 3rd party]
Built-in full-size keyboard
Apple trackpad [only ONE mouse button]
10GB Ultra ATA hard disk drive [apple's bread and butter: the SMALLEST hard drive available in the industry for this price laptop]
24x-speed (maximum) CD-ROM drive
Two 12Mbps USB ports
One 400Mbps FireWire (IEEE 1394) port
12.1-inch TFT XGA active-matrix
Built-in 56K V.90 modem
Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
ATI RAGE Mobility 8MB of SDRAM [gotta admit, this is a very good chipset for laptops]
$1299.00 Plus Tax and Shipping
From IBM:
1 Type II/III CardBus ZV port support
1024x768 TFT - active matrix 13.3 inches
External display supported Yes 1024x768
Simultaneous external display Yes
Mobile PentiumIII 750 MHz 100 MHz BUS
L2 cache std 256KB
64 MB SDRAM 100MHz
10 GB Hard disk EIDE
XGA Graphics chipset ATI Rage Mobility
CD-ROM 24Xmax-10Xmin
Audio data width 16 Speaker power.5 W
Fax/modem Integrated 56K (V.90 Compatible)Network card Ethernet-integrated Intel chipset
Operating system Microsoft Windows 98 SE
TrackPoint with "Press-to-Select"
Keyboard type standard Full size 85 key
Battery life - min/max6 3.8 hrs ( with 1 b
Power management features
$1234.05
From SONY:
Celeron(TM) Processor 700 MHz
128 MB SDRAM
20 GB3 Hard Drive
14.1" XGA (1024x768) TFT LCD Screen
Intel® 815 EM Chipset integrated with up to 11 MB video SDRAM (as good, or better than rage mobility 128 8MB (for 3d OpenGL)
DVD-ROM Drive
modular bay for battery and 3.5" floppy drive
Two Type I or II PC Cards
Jacks:
2 USB ports
i.LINK5 (IEEE 1394) port
Serial port
Monitor jack
Parallel (printer) port
Phone line (RJ-11) jack
Microphone jack
Headphone jack
Video Out jack
Port Replicator
10Base-T/100Base-TX integrated Ethernet
Microsoft® Windows® Millennium Edition
Microsoft® Word 2002
Limited Warranty: One year parts and labor
$1299.00
From Compaq:
Intel® Pentium® III Processor - 800MHz w/ Intel® SpeedStep (TM) technology
128 MB 100MHz SDRAM
30 GB UltraDMA Hard Drive
24X CD-ROM for FutureBays(TM) Drive
13.3" XGA TFT Active Matrix
Qty. TWO High-Capacity LiIOn Battery
56K PCI Modem and 10/100 NIC Card
ATI Mobility hardware accelerated 3D Graphics with 8MB Video Memory
AC Adapter Included
JBL Pro Audio System with Bass Reflex
Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition with XP Home Edition Upgrade Offer
1yr Parts / 1 yr labor/1yr mail-in
$1318.00 (just 18 dollars more than iBook)
ok there you have it. for 1299.00, you can buy the SAME EXACT SPECS or better from the 3 MOST Popular laptop venders in the consumer x86 market. You can buy cheaper, and faster systems from Dell, Gateway, and Generic if you want to deal with them. I just picked out the top 3 because I dont want anybody bitching about Apple's service quality being any "better" than mine (BTW, Apple is the lowest service in the market anybody that isn't zealous and deals with mac's a lot knows this)
This concludes the MYTH about apple NOT gouging their customers. They are BARELY competitive. There is nothing that sets them ahead of the pack that they should be charging PREMIUM prices for a slower machine with equivilent features. (don't tell me that a 66mhz bus on a G3 500MHz cpu is any faster than a PIII 750MHz, 100MHz BUS with SSE)The only company apple competes with in featureset/price is IBM. But you see, IBM can charge premium prices. because they make the best, most reliable laptops and have premium service. Apple doesn't.
Also, dont come bitching to me about firewire support. This can be added to any Laptop for under $99 dollars with a PCMCIA card. and the Sony comes with it Standard.
FACT: Apple pricing is PREMIUM for laptops of same featureset and speed
MYTH: Apple has competitive prices
He's Right you know. I have heard numerous stories from people owning these G4 powerbooks about how fragile they are. The titanium casing does absolutely nothing to sturdyness when it is that thing and WIDE. you could bend the whole thing in halv with little effort
For those of you trols that think "Slashdot isn't Fresh Meat" here is my 2cents:
STFU. When a kernel is released, I want to know about it. and who in their right mind looks at freshmeat every fucking day? NOBODY
So what is the point in starting a bitch session just to bitch? To waste Bandwidth? To blow time at your job? GIME A BREAK!
Now I can update my linux boxen tonight, and have a piece of mind that the IDE driver wasnt working correctly in 2.4.7 for me, is noted in the changelog as being fixed.
That's the whole point. when quake3 came out, TNT2 and Geforce1 were the only cards that could handle quake3 at reasonable framerates (if you want to call 40fps reasonable). The voodoo3 was dog slow in quake3, so was the g400. when Quake3 came out, there was no nVidia drivers for Xfree4. Loki was forced to publish Quake3 DELAYED, and when people called up on tech support, they had to tell their customers that they could not, and never would support nVidia based boards because there is no working driver. Nvidia based boards did not get support from Loki untill a year later, and they still do not have official support, because the driver is still beta quality, and Loki has no control over that.
You cannot base your front line product on the fact that you have full support for a voodoo3, and half support on BETA QUALITY nvidia drivers taht crash on every other box it is installed on.
More gamers THEN and NOW own nvidia cards than any other card. when you cannot support the games on that video card because of the boardmaker's driver issues, then there is something majorly wrong.
What ended it for Loki Games? Well, I happen to know one company I can slap the blame on. nVidia.
Why nVidia? well, its simple. when the tnt2 debutes, nVidia releases a statement that they are the only 3d video chip maker that is fully supporting Linux with Open Source Drivers. They were to release register specifications, and release a working, open source driver developed by nVidia and helped upon by a bunch of other interesting people. What happened to this ideal? They took it back of course, just as soon as 3dfx died and opensourced all their IP. When nVidia saw the monopoly knocking at their front door, they immediately withdrew their plan (this one year later) and decided to go closed source. you couldnt even use a custom kernel with the nvidia driver because it was entirely closed source binary only.
Too bad for Loki, who just spent the last 6 months porting Quake3 to Linux, now they just found out that the only video card they can officially support with Xfree4 is the Voodoo3 and Matrox g400 (dog slow in linux).
Add this to the fact that Quake3 for Linux came out on the SHELVES about a month after the windows version, and then, more expensive (by then, the windows version had been reduced in price by retailers, and the linux version could be downloaded off the internet, there was so little market for the linux version, they had to sell them at full price)
Imagine that, Quake3 launch more costly to consumers, and later than everyone else, not to mention that the only video card that could run quake3 at the time was a tnt2 and Geforce1 at reasonable speeds, and didn't even have alpha quality Xfree4 or kernel drivers(required to use 3d direct rendering in Linux)
Of course, nVidia released their closed source with open source wrapper later on that year, by then, it was too late. EVERY gaming migrant from windows switched back to windows specifically because of their video card's support (NVidia).
If you want a finger to point, point it at nVidia. they should be brought up on charges of anti-trust IMO.
Fuck you nvidia, I have nothing else to say to you. bitch. You ruined the only gaming potential Linux has ever had. If it wasn't for your delayed closed shitty alpha quality driver, Loki would have made a killing on Linux quake3. insted, only the newbies who bought the voodoo3 could play quake3, and so, only 10% of the potential market actually bought it. You had the only card that could handle quake3, and you lied on your promise to be the "leading 3d video card maker on the Linux platform"
Show me real world benchmarks that show a g3 faster than equivilently clocked p3's. Show me real world benchmarks that show a g4 more than marginally faster than equivilently clocked p3's.
look here:
http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/Ca te goryDisplay?cgrfnbr=2072540&smrfnbr=2072488&cntrfn br=1&cgmenbr=1&cntry=840&lang=en_US&scrfnbr=73
The 1,300$ laptop is faster than the iBook, same features (minus FireWire, add 50 bux)
The 1,500$ laptop is even FASTER than the equivilently priced iBook (it has a PIII) and has DVD, everything the same, feature for feature (3x bigger hard drive, 2x as much memory, 100MHz RAM insted of 66MHz) only thing missing is firewire again, add 50 bux.
the higher end line is even better deal. Main difference is the CDRW, insted of DVD. but really, these machines are equivilent to the Tibook. They even have titannium shells. so much for apple's great deal.
Don't even say "the g4 is 3x faster than an equivilently clocked p3" because everyone and their fucking MOTHER knows that is a lie. (except steve jobbs, but then, he knows he is an idiot)
Lets just say it. The g3 is old, outdated, and slow. There is nothing special about the g3 that x86 doesnt already have. It is no faster than a equivilently clocked athlon, duron, or p3. (not to mention, you cant buy equivilently clocked athlons, durons, or p3's anymore, they are all 200+mhz faster and come with 133MHz FSB's).
The g3 is an old man. Apple needs to put it to rest. its 66MHz FSB doesnt do anything for it. It is a crippled CPU to keep powerbook sales up. that's all it is. If you think that g3 500mhz 66mhz bus is much faster than my celeron 500MHz 100 FSB, then you are sadly mistaken. This coming from a Celeron 500 that was discontinued a year ago, since replaced by a 700MHz 100FSB at the same price point(cheeper than apple can even dream about). I will compare photoshop marks on my laptop against yoru iBook's photoshop marks any day.
Have you really had that many problems with yours? My laptop is so STABLE its unbelieveable. its the most stable prebuilt machine i have ever used. I have never had a problem with it. I love it.
(i hate the fact that it has a green pixel right off center tho ):
other than that, its been great, i have the same exact model as you, just a celeron 500, with 100MHz Bus, insted of your slower 466 with 66MHz bus. It is possible they used different motherboards in our seperate laptops, this could be the cause. it all boils down to how well the motherboard is engineered in a laptop, since really, that is the only difference between each brand and model of a laptop. But, like all computers, they will break sometime. Thas' why i always buy a 3 year base warranty. Mine came with 1 year default. and for 99 more dollars, 2 more years. i hope i will never need it, but cant beat the price if it ever dies on me.
Since we are an AASP, and I am the one responsible for doing the repairs, I know first hand that all NEW laptops must be sent in. the powerbook G3's were fixable in house (anything but the LCD can be fixed in house that is, LCD, apple will not ship us parts)
As for iBook (old clamshell, and new white one), They are mail in ONLY. (i just verified by the produce service matrix after I logged in to Service Provider Support website) The TiBook is the same way. If apple is changing, or are going to change their policy, they havent notified the AASP's yet.
What is really silly is that apple will NOT take back an iMac for mail in. they REQUIRE the AASPs to repair in house. This sux for me, because now i have to replace a picture tube in a brane new iMac DOA(not doa, screen works, but makes loud whine noise). this sux, and it is very shoddy of apple. they will take back CRT monitors, but not a CRT iMac. The cost for us to replace CRTs is just too much to make it worth our while.
Watch out for the Apple service. they are the loosers in the industry. We fix apple's where I work, and they are the absolute worst. The best thing about them is that you can send them back to apple for little cost and get them fixed within a week if something goes wrong (if you call this a good thing). If you have an apple authorized service center near you, then it is a little easier.
The main thing to watch out for is the 1 year warranty. Out of everyone i have ever known to own the Black keyboard Powerbook G3 (aka wallstreet) they have all had major repairs done to them. The worse thing is that the inverter board goes bad, and you have to pay apple $328.00 flat fee for any repairs. apple doesn't allow ASP's to work on their laptops anymore, so any time it breaks, this ~$330 fee applies (if its not covered on warranty).
Trust me, get the 3 year plan. it will save your day when(not IF) your laptop goes bad. Remember, this is the first model that has come out of that new style, and every single laptop apple has ever made that is the first of anything ended up being a POS (even the origional iMac is a POS)
good luck, and get the warranty, itl make you glad in about a year or 2.
Is an IBM Thinkpad i1400. It's a decent thinkpad, winmodem, but intel NIC (integrated). the screen is only 800x600 (blah!) but the newer low end (read: ~1,000-1,500$) all come with 1024x768 Active Matrix TFT.
Mine is a celeron 500MHz (this is good, as it is the 100MHz FSB version, not the 66MHz Crap they put in desktops).
I have installed linux on it, in fact, there are about 5 different websites out on the web that tell me how to install linux on this exact model. I couldn't get the modem working tho:(
If you want the best laptop for LINUX, then i would have to say IBM and Apple's iBook are your best bets. Sure, the iBook has a shitty CPU in it, but, it uses very little battery life (compared to a p3). And apple is all about not being compatible with the rest of the world. Well friends, when it comes to laptops, there are only a few things that matter. and CPU architecture isn't one of them. If you are running Linux on an x86 machine, or Linux on a PPC machine, its' all the same. I bet, if you are a linux guru that wants to run all the latest beta shitware on sourceforge, you wont want the iBook, because it will take some porting to get it to compile/running properly. but if you stick with software that comes with your distribution, then x86 and PPC are all the same.
For 1,300$ base end, and 1,900$ for high end iBook, i consider it a good buy for a linux laptop. (I paid $950 for my IBM 500MHz Celeron, 192MB ram, 800x600 active matrix TFT, NIC, winmodem, generic sound, i810 video (intel's), I think it was a steal about when i bought it 9 months ago)
If you were you, i would stay away from Dell laptops. For one, they are not like Dell desktops. They arent the "stable" machine on the block like the optiplex is. Not only that, but Dell is dropping Linux support on the desktop, so you can forget getting a Dell that is gonna run linux any better than IBM or apple. All in all, with my experience with dell laptops (i service them, gateway, and Apple's laptops under warranty where i work), I would have to say that Dells, and certain models of Apple's are the least reliable. (apple PB g3 Wallstreet comes to mind! Don't worry, bronze kb is a good one)
I hope you like my brief review, this is just my experience.
Many people have the wrong impression that ISO's take up MORE bandwidth. In actuality, they take up less. It is much easier to download one ISO, burn a few copies, and send it to friends, than to have each friend spend time downloading their packages. ISO's are essential if you want to manage many machines. You cannot go and install every machine from FTP. It is just too much bandwidth.
Not to mention, most newbies have no clue about downloading just the boot disk, and for crying out loud, when i build a new machine, there is no reason to waste time, money, and space with a floppy drive in each machine. I know I am not the only person in my shoes, so there is definately a need for ISO's. One thing that might make things a little bit easier is floppy organisation. Last time i installed Debian, i spent 30 minutes reading documentation on what i needed to do to get a working boot disk to allow me to install via FTP. There should be a full featured boot ISO out there to download (10-20 megs) with everything you could possibly want. it's hard to find a machine without a cdrom that isnt bootable nowadays.
Realise this is on a LEASE. If you PURCHASE a apple computer. you pay the price on the quote. PERIOD. If the price goes down by the time you recieve the product, you are SOL. Remember that if you don't purchase the default setup of the model you get (In other words, selecting extra options in the configurator), the MINIMUM shipping time is 10 days. If they are backed up, it has taken them sometimes as long as 30. This is NOT a lie, and it is based on pure fact.
without an extended warranty, you get a 1 year ripoff plan. Apple doesn't cover shattered displays at all unless you pay out the ass for some sort of warranty/insurance plan. they charge over 900 to replace it if not(depending on the laptop). Of course, nobody will cover a cracked display with a default warranty, but *I* am talking about hardware failures. And you shouldn't need an extended warranty to get your fucking DEFECTIVE hardware fixed without a CC#. If I don't need the telephone tech supuport that i pay for with the extended plan, how am I supposed to get my hardware fixed when it fails without haveing a CC? Simple answer, you can't. Gateway, Dell, default 3 year warranty, Default telephone tech support in case your hardware fails.
If your machine is older than 30 days, they do not give telephone tech support, you must pay by credit card. Even if you have a hardware failure, they will not let you talk to a tech without a CC#. then when they later confirm it is a hardware failure, they will refund your CC. Steps that the tech will require you to do before they will consider hardware failure(this was on a DOA machine BTW, sound board bad):
Re-Initialize the HDD
Install the OS from scratch
if not fixed, ZERO the hard drive (a 3 hour process) and reinstall the System.
Finally, after all this, they will finally take the machine back under wararnty coverage. They even tried to get us to send it back to get it REPAIRED, insted of sending us a NEW one. I am sorry, If I spend 3 grand on a NEW laptop, i am NOT going to settle for a REFURB. Finally they let us send it back for replacement, took them 12 days. This happened just last month with a new PB g4.
Its amazing that you "get no longer than 7 days" at most. Even though we are an Apple Authorized Service Provider, and Apple Authorized Reseller, we get 2-4 week turnaround time on almost all our laptop repairs? Not to mention the monitors which take longer sometimes. How many laptops have you sent back for you to have "7 days at most"? Well, i just checked my database and *I* have personally sent back 9 laptops (this over ~1.5 year period) and only 2 came back within 7 days. This is FAR from "at most 7 days". Maybe you need some more experience with apple if you are comparing a few instances with current overall quality. We also send back Dell and Gateway laptops. Until recently, Gateway would send us a replacement laptop and let us stick the bad one in the box to send back. Now, we have to send them back and wait, but it is a 1 week or less turnaround. EVERY time. Dell, it is about the same way. And don't believe that 48 hour turnaround on Dell laptops. its all BS. it is more like 3-5 business days.
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When you extend the pipeline, you loose performance at same clock. People use a longer pipeline to jack up the MHz a cpu on a particular process can do.
for example: Motorola made a new G4 chip recently with a longer pipeline than the classic G4 chip. At the same clock, the OLDER g4 is a faster cpu. Only does the new G4 compete w/ the older one when it[the new one] is clocked from 500MHz up to 700MHz. In other words, they raised the clock up by 200MHz, but gained no performance increase over the older model. They also gained the potential to raise the clock speed slightly higher now, (800MHz now?) which is slightly faster than the classic G4 CPU(but not much, as benchmarks show). So in reality, the MHz is more, but no performance is gained. This is what the poster was saying about "inflating MHz"
Intel did the same thing on the p4. Basically, the p4 has an ungodly long pipeline. for branch mispredicitons, there is a HUGE penalty, etc. Which i won't get into, because it could take pages to describe how a CPU works to you.
Comparing that to AMD's chips, they do the same work in less stages of the pipe, but it is clocked at a lower frequency. In the end, this is how AMD chips perform better than intel chips clocked at higher frequency. If you have any other questions about how the 2 CPU's differ, feel free to reply and we can continue the discussion.
"Apple has tried to educate the consumer about the reality of clock speed, and they failed. "
They failed because what they tried to teach wasn't reality. the G4 doesn't score any better in overall benchmarks than any other CPU, clock for clock, or even when both are at their max MHz (ie, a g4 maxed out in MHz does NOT beat a athlon or p4 maxed out in MHz in more than a couple obscure photoshop benchmarks) Overall, photoshop benchmarks (which are the only ones apple ever uses to compare itself to x86) are better on x86 in almost EVERY filter except the 6 filters that Apple publishes on their website.
AMD will fall into the same problem as apple. no marketshare, nothing. Cyrix tried this with their PR bullshit, and it didn't work. you cant sell a 1.4GHz athlon at P1600 on the high end when intel is selling REAL 2.0GHz p4's.
IMO, this is the stupidest thing AMD could have done. they just need to go ahead and ship their desktop Athlon4 as fast as they can, and go for it. If they are having trouble with yields, then they should extend their pipe stages like Motorolla did on the G4. At least they could have something to give to their marketing idiots.
"Of course the higher prices you pay for a Mac can be justified by a stable PC, good support, compatability, etc.... "
Well, I guess this was just someone trolling, but oh well:
I'm sorry, but a mac is no more stable than a PC. in fact, much less so. There are a few models on the Apple product line that are stable as hell, and then you have a few that are just plain shit.
Then there is dell and gateway's managed platforms. which pretty much blow apple out of the water in stability, performance, and price.
And now that you mention support, you can pretty much mark Apple off your top 3 when it comes to that. If you consider support to be > 1week turnaround times on repairs, $50 CC charges to schedule a WARRANTY repair with their tech support, etc, then i guess you can say Apple has it all. But they cant even touch the repair speed of dell and gateway. Not only that, but they break less often (its called testing, something apple doesnt do much of. want proof? Just take a look at apple's TiBook, which only goes up to 50 ft with airport card, and the origional iMac's lifespan, and the PB G3 wallstreet's lifespan)
Now you go on to compatibility. welp, we all know you are an idiot now, so you might just want to stay quiet on this point.
At the risk of feeding a troll, here is how it really is.
Apple charges a 50$ service fee if you don't want them to wipe the hard drive when sent in for service. If you choose this fee, they will backup yoru hard drive and put it into a "old data" folder after installing a clean MacOS system.
Not only this, but they give you the OPTION of backing it up but "only if required"
I sent a laptop back to be repaired, and said to backup the hdd if they need to wipe it. They wiped the hard drive, backed it up, and charged me $50 even though they only replaced the LCD pannel. this is fucking bullshit. another time, i sent one back which needed another sound board put in, and they wiped that hard drive too. only we didnt ask for the 50$ fee.
The point is this: It is a support nightmare to have to deal with people's data. If you send your computer into ANY shop to be fixed, i dont care WHERE you send it, don't trust your data with them. EVERY FUCKING vender and repair shop in existance has no liability for your data. Your data is NOT covered under the manufacturer's warranty. and they even say this before you send it off. if you didn't know that, then you didn't pay attention.
they aren't on the trackpad. my thinkpad has 3 buttons built in. Apple computers only come wiht 1 button on the track pad, there is no way to "add" a new mouse button without buying a whole new EXTERNAL mouse. which i dont need on a laptop. (ie, the purpose of a laptop is to use it on your lap, not for your office machine)
PRICE was mentioned because some mac zealot claimed that apple hardware isnt at a premium. We were proving him different.
:(
As far as customer and user satisfaction. that is UTTER bullshit. Apple has one of the worst customer satisfaction department's in the industry. Only apple charges you by CC if you need to call tech support and make a warranty claim. Only apple will make you get your computer repaired if it comes in DOA, insted of sending you a new one (if i buy a new computer, it dame well better be new, now a refurb) They use refurb parts for repairing computers, and if it comes in DOA, then you get a refurb MOBO, or whatever is broken, that is unacceptable.
In the end, when its all said and done, i see more unhappy mac users than happy ones. Yet they still stay with apple because that is all they know how to use. too bad for them
It has nothing to do with AASP's. I do the same job that you do man. It all has to do with dealing with the entity known as Apple. Not the AASP's. An AASP is just a computer shop that does contract work for apple. I am talking about apple's policy on support. PAY them money to talk to them on the phone. PAY them money before you can get your laptop sent to them in the mail, then they refund you. it is fucking more of the same old jerking the customer off. Its unacceptable to not be able to call tech support to get your hardware replaced when it fails.
EVERY laptop I listed here has tap and double tap on the trackpad. AND they come with 2 mouse buttons.
As far as battery life comes, the iBook has not much more battery life. their "up to 5 hours" means it will work for 5 hours UNDER IDLE. if you are watching a DVD, the time drops dramatically to below 2 hours (fact: you cannot watch a full length DVD on a single charged iBook, nor can you on a PC)
the compaq I listed comes with TWO 4 hour batteries. don't gime this crap about the g3's longer battery life, because it does NOT exist in mass quantities as you think it does.
Not to mention, that in the PC world, we dont cripple built in features to try to sell higher end laptops. when a chipset comes with high resolution video out, the manufacturer uses it. In apple land, they disable anything above 1024 because they want to rip the customer off on the TiBook.
the iBook is crippled by apple to try to keep the g4 sales up. People who need the high resolution video on the iBook are SOL and are forced into the G4.
the same goes for high performance memory buss. Apple has purposely clocked down the motherboard chipset to make it run at 66MHz. This iBook uses the same chipset as the 100MHz busses on other product lines. This is bogus of apple.
I like the style of the iBook. It has a nice feel to it. But you can get the same things from Sony, IBM, Gateway, Dell, Compaq, etc for cheaper, and faster.
the iBook is probably their lowest profit margins. and that is pathetic. for equivilently speed/featured laptops to match up with the TiBook, you pay hundreds less in the x86 world. (and get expansion slots)
I do not understand?
Is tupperware a BRAND? I was under the impression that tupperware was a type of container. IE, rubbermaid, zipblock brand, etc are all tupperware.
If tupperware is the origional BRAND, could you piont me to a URL that sells them? (or a store)
thanks
I am sick and tired of Mac Zealots saying that apple hardware doesnt cost a PREMIUM. here is fucking PROOF. (no, this is not a troll, and it shouldn't be moderated as such)
.5 W
FROM APPLE:
500-MHz PowerPC G3 processor
256KB on-chip level 2 cache
66-MHz system bus [GROSE GROSE GROSE]
64MB of PC100 SDRAM [If you are gonna solder on memory, at least make it 128 for base price, just more jerking the customer off here ie: have to pay extra if you want to max the ram out, they tax you on the ram, reguardless if you buy from them, or 3rd party]
Built-in full-size keyboard
Apple trackpad [only ONE mouse button]
10GB Ultra ATA hard disk drive [apple's bread and butter: the SMALLEST hard drive available in the industry for this price laptop]
24x-speed (maximum) CD-ROM drive
Two 12Mbps USB ports
One 400Mbps FireWire (IEEE 1394) port
12.1-inch TFT XGA active-matrix
Built-in 56K V.90 modem
Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
ATI RAGE Mobility 8MB of SDRAM [gotta admit, this is a very good chipset for laptops]
$1299.00 Plus Tax and Shipping
From IBM:
1 Type II/III CardBus ZV port support
1024x768 TFT - active matrix 13.3 inches
External display supported Yes 1024x768
Simultaneous external display Yes
Mobile PentiumIII 750 MHz 100 MHz BUS
L2 cache std 256KB
64 MB SDRAM 100MHz
10 GB Hard disk EIDE
XGA Graphics chipset ATI Rage Mobility
CD-ROM 24Xmax-10Xmin
Audio data width 16 Speaker power
Fax/modem Integrated 56K (V.90 Compatible)Network card Ethernet-integrated Intel chipset
Operating system Microsoft Windows 98 SE
TrackPoint with "Press-to-Select"
Keyboard type standard Full size 85 key
Battery life - min/max6 3.8 hrs ( with 1 b
Power management features
$1234.05
From SONY:
Celeron(TM) Processor 700 MHz
128 MB SDRAM
20 GB3 Hard Drive
14.1" XGA (1024x768) TFT LCD Screen
Intel® 815 EM Chipset integrated with up to 11 MB video SDRAM (as good, or better than rage mobility 128 8MB (for 3d OpenGL)
DVD-ROM Drive
modular bay for battery and 3.5" floppy drive
Two Type I or II PC Cards
Jacks:
2 USB ports
i.LINK5 (IEEE 1394) port
Serial port
Monitor jack
Parallel (printer) port
Phone line (RJ-11) jack
Microphone jack
Headphone jack
Video Out jack
Port Replicator
10Base-T/100Base-TX integrated Ethernet
Microsoft® Windows® Millennium Edition
Microsoft® Word 2002
Limited Warranty: One year parts and labor
$1299.00
From Compaq:
Intel® Pentium® III Processor - 800MHz w/ Intel® SpeedStep (TM) technology
128 MB 100MHz SDRAM
30 GB UltraDMA Hard Drive
24X CD-ROM for FutureBays(TM) Drive
13.3" XGA TFT Active Matrix
Qty. TWO High-Capacity LiIOn Battery
56K PCI Modem and 10/100 NIC Card
ATI Mobility hardware accelerated 3D Graphics with 8MB Video Memory
AC Adapter Included
JBL Pro Audio System with Bass Reflex
Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition with XP Home Edition Upgrade Offer
1yr Parts / 1 yr labor/1yr mail-in
$1318.00 (just 18 dollars more than iBook)
ok there you have it. for 1299.00, you can buy the SAME EXACT SPECS or better from the 3 MOST Popular laptop venders in the consumer x86 market. You can buy cheaper, and faster systems from Dell, Gateway, and Generic if you want to deal with them. I just picked out the top 3 because I dont want anybody bitching about Apple's service quality being any "better" than mine (BTW, Apple is the lowest service in the market anybody that isn't zealous and deals with mac's a lot knows this)
This concludes the MYTH about apple NOT gouging their customers. They are BARELY competitive. There is nothing that sets them ahead of the pack that they should be charging PREMIUM prices for a slower machine with equivilent features. (don't tell me that a 66mhz bus on a G3 500MHz cpu is any faster than a PIII 750MHz, 100MHz BUS with SSE)The only company apple competes with in featureset/price is IBM. But you see, IBM can charge premium prices. because they make the best, most reliable laptops and have premium service. Apple doesn't.
Also, dont come bitching to me about firewire support. This can be added to any Laptop for under $99 dollars with a PCMCIA card. and the Sony comes with it Standard.
FACT: Apple pricing is PREMIUM for laptops of same featureset and speed
MYTH: Apple has competitive prices
He's Right you know. I have heard numerous stories from people owning these G4 powerbooks about how fragile they are. The titanium casing does absolutely nothing to sturdyness when it is that thing and WIDE. you could bend the whole thing in halv with little effort
For those of you trols that think "Slashdot isn't Fresh Meat" here is my 2cents:
:)
STFU. When a kernel is released, I want to know about it. and who in their right mind looks at freshmeat every fucking day? NOBODY
So what is the point in starting a bitch session just to bitch? To waste Bandwidth? To blow time at your job? GIME A BREAK!
Now I can update my linux boxen tonight, and have a piece of mind that the IDE driver wasnt working correctly in 2.4.7 for me, is noted in the changelog as being fixed.
have a nice day
That's the whole point. when quake3 came out, TNT2 and Geforce1 were the only cards that could handle quake3 at reasonable framerates (if you want to call 40fps reasonable). The voodoo3 was dog slow in quake3, so was the g400. when Quake3 came out, there was no nVidia drivers for Xfree4. Loki was forced to publish Quake3 DELAYED, and when people called up on tech support, they had to tell their customers that they could not, and never would support nVidia based boards because there is no working driver. Nvidia based boards did not get support from Loki untill a year later, and they still do not have official support, because the driver is still beta quality, and Loki has no control over that.
You cannot base your front line product on the fact that you have full support for a voodoo3, and half support on BETA QUALITY nvidia drivers taht crash on every other box it is installed on.
More gamers THEN and NOW own nvidia cards than any other card. when you cannot support the games on that video card because of the boardmaker's driver issues, then there is something majorly wrong.
What ended it for Loki Games? Well, I happen to know one company I can slap the blame on. nVidia.
Why nVidia? well, its simple. when the tnt2 debutes, nVidia releases a statement that they are the only 3d video chip maker that is fully supporting Linux with Open Source Drivers. They were to release register specifications, and release a working, open source driver developed by nVidia and helped upon by a bunch of other interesting people. What happened to this ideal? They took it back of course, just as soon as 3dfx died and opensourced all their IP. When nVidia saw the monopoly knocking at their front door, they immediately withdrew their plan (this one year later) and decided to go closed source. you couldnt even use a custom kernel with the nvidia driver because it was entirely closed source binary only.
Too bad for Loki, who just spent the last 6 months porting Quake3 to Linux, now they just found out that the only video card they can officially support with Xfree4 is the Voodoo3 and Matrox g400 (dog slow in linux).
Add this to the fact that Quake3 for Linux came out on the SHELVES about a month after the windows version, and then, more expensive (by then, the windows version had been reduced in price by retailers, and the linux version could be downloaded off the internet, there was so little market for the linux version, they had to sell them at full price)
Imagine that, Quake3 launch more costly to consumers, and later than everyone else, not to mention that the only video card that could run quake3 at the time was a tnt2 and Geforce1 at reasonable speeds, and didn't even have alpha quality Xfree4 or kernel drivers(required to use 3d direct rendering in Linux)
Of course, nVidia released their closed source with open source wrapper later on that year, by then, it was too late. EVERY gaming migrant from windows switched back to windows specifically because of their video card's support (NVidia).
If you want a finger to point, point it at nVidia. they should be brought up on charges of anti-trust IMO.
Fuck you nvidia, I have nothing else to say to you. bitch. You ruined the only gaming potential Linux has ever had. If it wasn't for your delayed closed shitty alpha quality driver, Loki would have made a killing on Linux quake3. insted, only the newbies who bought the voodoo3 could play quake3, and so, only 10% of the potential market actually bought it. You had the only card that could handle quake3, and you lied on your promise to be the "leading 3d video card maker on the Linux platform"
Have a nice day.
Show me real world benchmarks that show a g3 faster than equivilently clocked p3's. Show me real world benchmarks that show a g4 more than marginally faster than equivilently clocked p3's.
You cannot. because none exist.
thank you, please come again.
look here:
http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/C
The 1,300$ laptop is faster than the iBook, same features (minus FireWire, add 50 bux)
The 1,500$ laptop is even FASTER than the equivilently priced iBook (it has a PIII) and has DVD, everything the same, feature for feature (3x bigger hard drive, 2x as much memory, 100MHz RAM insted of 66MHz) only thing missing is firewire again, add 50 bux.
the higher end line is even better deal. Main difference is the CDRW, insted of DVD. but really, these machines are equivilent to the Tibook. They even have titannium shells. so much for apple's great deal.
Don't even say "the g4 is 3x faster than an equivilently clocked p3" because everyone and their fucking MOTHER knows that is a lie. (except steve jobbs, but then, he knows he is an idiot)
Lets just say it. The g3 is old, outdated, and slow. There is nothing special about the g3 that x86 doesnt already have. It is no faster than a equivilently clocked athlon, duron, or p3. (not to mention, you cant buy equivilently clocked athlons, durons, or p3's anymore, they are all 200+mhz faster and come with 133MHz FSB's).
The g3 is an old man. Apple needs to put it to rest. its 66MHz FSB doesnt do anything for it. It is a crippled CPU to keep powerbook sales up. that's all it is. If you think that g3 500mhz 66mhz bus is much faster than my celeron 500MHz 100 FSB, then you are sadly mistaken. This coming from a Celeron 500 that was discontinued a year ago, since replaced by a 700MHz 100FSB at the same price point(cheeper than apple can even dream about). I will compare photoshop marks on my laptop against yoru iBook's photoshop marks any day.
Have you really had that many problems with yours? My laptop is so STABLE its unbelieveable. its the most stable prebuilt machine i have ever used. I have never had a problem with it. I love it.
(i hate the fact that it has a green pixel right off center tho ):
other than that, its been great, i have the same exact model as you, just a celeron 500, with 100MHz Bus, insted of your slower 466 with 66MHz bus. It is possible they used different motherboards in our seperate laptops, this could be the cause. it all boils down to how well the motherboard is engineered in a laptop, since really, that is the only difference between each brand and model of a laptop. But, like all computers, they will break sometime. Thas' why i always buy a 3 year base warranty. Mine came with 1 year default. and for 99 more dollars, 2 more years. i hope i will never need it, but cant beat the price if it ever dies on me.
Since we are an AASP, and I am the one responsible for doing the repairs, I know first hand that all NEW laptops must be sent in. the powerbook G3's were fixable in house (anything but the LCD can be fixed in house that is, LCD, apple will not ship us parts)
As for iBook (old clamshell, and new white one), They are mail in ONLY. (i just verified by the produce service matrix after I logged in to Service Provider Support website) The TiBook is the same way. If apple is changing, or are going to change their policy, they havent notified the AASP's yet.
What is really silly is that apple will NOT take back an iMac for mail in. they REQUIRE the AASPs to repair in house. This sux for me, because now i have to replace a picture tube in a brane new iMac DOA(not doa, screen works, but makes loud whine noise). this sux, and it is very shoddy of apple. they will take back CRT monitors, but not a CRT iMac. The cost for us to replace CRTs is just too much to make it worth our while.
Watch out for the Apple service. they are the loosers in the industry. We fix apple's where I work, and they are the absolute worst. The best thing about them is that you can send them back to apple for little cost and get them fixed within a week if something goes wrong (if you call this a good thing). If you have an apple authorized service center near you, then it is a little easier.
The main thing to watch out for is the 1 year warranty. Out of everyone i have ever known to own the Black keyboard Powerbook G3 (aka wallstreet) they have all had major repairs done to them. The worse thing is that the inverter board goes bad, and you have to pay apple $328.00 flat fee for any repairs. apple doesn't allow ASP's to work on their laptops anymore, so any time it breaks, this ~$330 fee applies (if its not covered on warranty).
Trust me, get the 3 year plan. it will save your day when(not IF) your laptop goes bad. Remember, this is the first model that has come out of that new style, and every single laptop apple has ever made that is the first of anything ended up being a POS (even the origional iMac is a POS)
good luck, and get the warranty, itl make you glad in about a year or 2.
Is an IBM Thinkpad i1400. It's a decent thinkpad, winmodem, but intel NIC (integrated). the screen is only 800x600 (blah!) but the newer low end (read: ~1,000-1,500$) all come with 1024x768 Active Matrix TFT.
:(
Mine is a celeron 500MHz (this is good, as it is the 100MHz FSB version, not the 66MHz Crap they put in desktops).
I have installed linux on it, in fact, there are about 5 different websites out on the web that tell me how to install linux on this exact model. I couldn't get the modem working tho
If you want the best laptop for LINUX, then i would have to say IBM and Apple's iBook are your best bets. Sure, the iBook has a shitty CPU in it, but, it uses very little battery life (compared to a p3). And apple is all about not being compatible with the rest of the world. Well friends, when it comes to laptops, there are only a few things that matter. and CPU architecture isn't one of them. If you are running Linux on an x86 machine, or Linux on a PPC machine, its' all the same. I bet, if you are a linux guru that wants to run all the latest beta shitware on sourceforge, you wont want the iBook, because it will take some porting to get it to compile/running properly. but if you stick with software that comes with your distribution, then x86 and PPC are all the same.
For 1,300$ base end, and 1,900$ for high end iBook, i consider it a good buy for a linux laptop. (I paid $950 for my IBM 500MHz Celeron, 192MB ram, 800x600 active matrix TFT, NIC, winmodem, generic sound, i810 video (intel's), I think it was a steal about when i bought it 9 months ago)
If you were you, i would stay away from Dell laptops. For one, they are not like Dell desktops. They arent the "stable" machine on the block like the optiplex is. Not only that, but Dell is dropping Linux support on the desktop, so you can forget getting a Dell that is gonna run linux any better than IBM or apple. All in all, with my experience with dell laptops (i service them, gateway, and Apple's laptops under warranty where i work), I would have to say that Dells, and certain models of Apple's are the least reliable. (apple PB g3 Wallstreet comes to mind! Don't worry, bronze kb is a good one)
I hope you like my brief review, this is just my experience.
Many people have the wrong impression that ISO's take up MORE bandwidth. In actuality, they take up less. It is much easier to download one ISO, burn a few copies, and send it to friends, than to have each friend spend time downloading their packages. ISO's are essential if you want to manage many machines. You cannot go and install every machine from FTP. It is just too much bandwidth.
Not to mention, most newbies have no clue about downloading just the boot disk, and for crying out loud, when i build a new machine, there is no reason to waste time, money, and space with a floppy drive in each machine. I know I am not the only person in my shoes, so there is definately a need for ISO's. One thing that might make things a little bit easier is floppy organisation. Last time i installed Debian, i spent 30 minutes reading documentation on what i needed to do to get a working boot disk to allow me to install via FTP. There should be a full featured boot ISO out there to download (10-20 megs) with everything you could possibly want. it's hard to find a machine without a cdrom that isnt bootable nowadays.
just my 2 cents.
Realise this is on a LEASE. If you PURCHASE a apple computer. you pay the price on the quote. PERIOD. If the price goes down by the time you recieve the product, you are SOL. Remember that if you don't purchase the default setup of the model you get (In other words, selecting extra options in the configurator), the MINIMUM shipping time is 10 days. If they are backed up, it has taken them sometimes as long as 30. This is NOT a lie, and it is based on pure fact.
without an extended warranty, you get a 1 year ripoff plan. Apple doesn't cover shattered displays at all unless you pay out the ass for some sort of warranty/insurance plan. they charge over 900 to replace it if not(depending on the laptop). Of course, nobody will cover a cracked display with a default warranty, but *I* am talking about hardware failures. And you shouldn't need an extended warranty to get your fucking DEFECTIVE hardware fixed without a CC#. If I don't need the telephone tech supuport that i pay for with the extended plan, how am I supposed to get my hardware fixed when it fails without haveing a CC? Simple answer, you can't. Gateway, Dell, default 3 year warranty, Default telephone tech support in case your hardware fails.
If your machine is older than 30 days, they do not give telephone tech support, you must pay by credit card. Even if you have a hardware failure, they will not let you talk to a tech without a CC#. then when they later confirm it is a hardware failure, they will refund your CC. Steps that the tech will require you to do before they will consider hardware failure(this was on a DOA machine BTW, sound board bad):
Re-Initialize the HDD
Install the OS from scratch
if not fixed, ZERO the hard drive (a 3 hour process) and reinstall the System.
Finally, after all this, they will finally take the machine back under wararnty coverage. They even tried to get us to send it back to get it REPAIRED, insted of sending us a NEW one. I am sorry, If I spend 3 grand on a NEW laptop, i am NOT going to settle for a REFURB. Finally they let us send it back for replacement, took them 12 days. This happened just last month with a new PB g4.
Its amazing that you "get no longer than 7 days" at most. Even though we are an Apple Authorized Service Provider, and Apple Authorized Reseller, we get 2-4 week turnaround time on almost all our laptop repairs? Not to mention the monitors which take longer sometimes. How many laptops have you sent back for you to have "7 days at most"? Well, i just checked my database and *I* have personally sent back 9 laptops (this over ~1.5 year period) and only 2 came back within 7 days. This is FAR from "at most 7 days". Maybe you need some more experience with apple if you are comparing a few instances with current overall quality. We also send back Dell and Gateway laptops. Until recently, Gateway would send us a replacement laptop and let us stick the bad one in the box to send back. Now, we have to send them back and wait, but it is a 1 week or less turnaround. EVERY time. Dell, it is about the same way. And don't believe that 48 hour turnaround on Dell laptops. its all BS. it is more like 3-5 business days.