... apparently math is really hard for some people. What portion of the total company revenue/profits do you think is spent on such things?
Its a tiny fraction of most companies. Even the most lavishly paid CEOs rarely make more then 1 percent of revenue.
And bribes to politicians are embarrassingly cheap. You can buy most congressman for about 10 thousand to 40 thousand dollars. Senators can be bought for about 40 thousand to 500 thousand if its a majority leader.
The expected return for lobbying is generally about 100 to 1. That is, if a company donates 50,000 to a political campaign they expect that to net them a minimum of 50 million dollars either in tax savings, government contracts, regulation changes, etc.
So no. Companies are not going broke buying whores and private jets for their elites. Some might be but that's usual. What's eating them alive is the bottom line.
And your fucking around with the regulatory and tax environment is the problem.
Full stop. Why is manufacturing thriving in southern states and dying in northern states?
Only difference is the regulatory environment. You're wrong and if you were introspective enough and honest enough you'd admit it.
That's fine. Your tax and spend system is going to collapse eventually. And when it does the political model you've created on providing subsidies in exchange for political support will also collapse.
Its too bad you'll destroy the country in the process but you're a cancer for which there is apparently no cure.
The founders didn't account for you sadly.
When the US was founded, the founders tried to learn from the mistakes of past civilizations. From the romans, the greeks, the english, etc.
Their studies were not sufficient apparently because this is in part what brought the old roman empire down.
We might persist in this fashion for another 400 years. But we're unlikely to last much beyond that. You're addicted to deficit spending. And you've made it impossible to cut entitlements. Anyone tries and you label them as something horrible.
Fine... we'll just keep increasing spending at a higher rate then the US economy is growing. What could possibly go wrong.
The idea with cutting revenue is to force YOU to cut spending. You refuse to compromise on the issue. You just play games and lie.
If you play your game as well as you have so far you'll kill the country. Congratulations.
The only hope for this country at this point is that you either wise up... I won't hold my breath there... or you make some tactical error that causes you to suffer strategic losses.
Either way... its not looking good for America. It sad. Its a great country but you've infected us with a fatal disease. Here's hoping the civilizations that learn from us learn the lesson well.
That's fine... its a free country and I won't tell you what to believe.
And for what its worth to you, I'm against the excesses of the TSA, NSA, etc. I'm with Snowden and etc. Again for what that's worth to you.
But at the same time, I take it as naive to think the libertarians are ever going to get anywhere.
They're not vicious enough to hold on to power. They're not willing to inflict pain. To drive their enemies before them and hear the lamentations of their women.
It is the naive conceit of libertarians to think they can do everything through some utopian political policy where everyone respects everyone.
They never will. And that belief is an expression of a fundamental misunderstanding of what respect is in the first place.
Most people only respect people to the extent they can hurt you. That sounds cynical but its just realism. If you want rights you have to make it clear to those that would take them that you can hurt them or better yet destroy them. And in that... you have respect.
What is mine is mine because if you try to take it... I will hurt you. And that is the only reason it is mine and the only reason I will ever keep anything.
Libertarians don't understand that on a basic level and until they do they'll never get anywhere.
The instant they have power... someone else will come along and take it from them. Candy from a baby. What are you going to do? You going to stop them? You and what army.
Libertarians need to brew a dark side. They need to make some deals with their own personal demons... short of that... they're going to be seen as cattle to be slaughtered at will.
I'll also point out that some of the evidence he used to back up his theory was collected by some of the people in the jury. And that he had gone out of his way to undermine and humiliate those same people for years.
The jury was clearly corrupt and had a major conflict of interest. But the man was also asking for it and was hardly without blame.
He ran around pissing people off, kicking over beehives, and shockingly the fool got stung.
The lesson no one learns but should is that you shouldn't build your career on annoying people to no purpose.
Which federal department did bush use to back up his loan program and did that program hurt democrats or undermine their interests?
If you can't show a federal agency he uses then your point is irrelevant to the issue.
If you can't show that it undermined democrats or hurt their interests then your point is irrelevant to the issue.
Regardless, you're committed to playing political games. That's fine. It doesn't confuse, fool, or surprise me. You're like a 4 year old playing hide and go seek that doesn't know I can see you feet poking out behind the couch.
You expect me to walk around saying at "where is he?!... oh where is he!?"
Why should I humor you? Its a game suitable only for the callow. I am too experienced and jaded to find any reason to pretend its valid. Its a stupid lie.
Come up with better ones... ideally ones you personally fashioned rather then simply cribbing them from the national party talking points like most of your pathetic ilk.
We can't cut spending. You've worked very hard to make that impossible. Your whole political position is based on the idea of giving people stuff. You give people free healthcare, free food, free housing, free education, free transport, free cell phones, free anything and everything.
Except none of it is free.
You say you care about helping the poor and the needy. And i think for many of you that is true. But the reality is that many in your faction only give away these things as a means to power. That is they don't seek power to help the poor. They help the poor to get power.
Now helping the poor is great. I'm all for it. But when helping the poor is your means to power it is not in your interest for there to be fewer poor people any more then it is in McDonald's interest for there to be more health conscious people. Your ideology thrives on poverty. The poorer and more desperate people are the stronger you become. And whatever you believe, your politicians know this and exploit it on an ongoing basis.
Part of this desire for illegal immigrants from south of the border is because the democrats know it serves their interests to have as many poor ignorant people as possible on the government dole.
That is how your politicians get into power and keep it.
So I have very little patience for you claims to moral or ethical virtue on this issue. Your political party would be very much at home in the old Roman Senate. They played the same games. Gave free food to the masses. Grain ships arrived from Egypt daily providing the people of Rome with free food. The masses. The mob. And it worked out great for the empire and the senators until it rotted the heart out of the empire.
The specifics of the issue are likely beyond you and your likely tiny attention span. But the point is that I am deeply unimpressed with your silly notion that the republicans are MORE responsible for the sorry state of our budget because they want to cut taxes. You can't just raise taxes infinitely... and that is apparently what the democrats want.
They've never said how much is too much. They've never said what is fair. They always say they want more. And when they get that they want more again.
No. If the US government needs to go bankrupt to short circuit your parasitic political games then so be it.
You are buying elections. That is what you've been trying to do since the New Deal. Nothing more or less.
Nice... so republicans are to blame for your own tax and spend nightmare.
Tell me, are democrats ever responsible for anything? Or is that literally impossible? Because you seem to employ these hilarious circular logic loops where things that are good are the responsibility of the democrats indifferent to whether they had anything to do with it and things that are bad are the responsibility of the republicans whether or not they had anything to do with it.
And in this you think you have any basis to judge me or really anyone else?
This is the problem with your ideology. Its all promises and other people's money. You sit there and promise people everything... anything.
And you try to deliver it by jacking up taxes and making life miserable for anyone that actually is able to operate under your absurd system.
And then when all is said and done... you fail. The people that depended on you get fucked. Its bread lines and government rations if we're lucky.
I'm not saying other systems are great... they're just less deceitful and stupid.
No, I'm saying you used a scientific organization as a puppet for a political program that hurt a lot of people and is in the process of destroying industries, communities, and ways of life. And as a result, the political allies of the people you hurt are reaching out to disrupt, break, and punish those that did that.
The science is irrelevant to the issue. You hurt people and they respond. You disrespect people and they respond.
Why would you think you could go after all these people and destroy them with no consequences? Who do you think you're dealing with here? We're every bit as smart as you are sport. Even our grasp of science is much the same despite your probable assumptions on that issue.
What seperates us is not our education or ability to reason. It is our intentions and interests. You are trying to fuck people over and you used a federal agency to do it. You are now apparently shocked that those people you tried to fuck or actually fucked are going after that federal agency.
And you think we are stupid? Of course we're going after it. You're going to have to defend it now and have fun trying to get funding for the DoE now that you've turned it into a political pawn.
You've undermined the country with that shit. These agencies must remain impartial and neutral or they can't be tolerated. These organizations must be for EVERYONE. All sides. Mutual. Or they are undeserving of common funds.
You're right... hydraulic fracturing on private land is booming in spite of the best efforts of the administration to kill it.
But that's only because they've been unable to stop it. And they've been unable to stop it because WE protected them.
The EPA and similar organizations have been trying to stop and forbid fracking for years. They're saying it causes earth quakes or that areas that have had natural gas in their well water for GENERATIONS only now are able to light their well water on fire.
You won't probably. But this is what you're dealing with... its not giant soulless raping companies. Its people. And you're fucking them and you don't care. And for that they're going to reach out to their political allies and ask them to do what they can to stop it.
The DoE was used as a tool to hurt people.
So those allies are now going out to hurt the DoE.
I regret that all these things are happening. Its sad. But this is what happens when you play political games. There is a price. And denial simply reinforces the political battle lines.
If you lie to me now and say this isn't a political fight... it just sends the rhetorical signal that you're so committed to your games that you can't even admit it.
We're not asking for anything special here. Just leave us alone.
How many people does solyndra employ today? Where are the green jobs?
This is the recurring problem with the left. They promise everyone a world of rainbows and unicorn cheeseburgers. But when push comes to shove... you fail. You don't deliver. All your promises don't come out... the reality checks bounce... and then what happens? People like me are stuck in some disintegrating city eating gruel and standing in line to get government rations.
Fuck that.
Is free enterprise perfect? Hell no. its full of exploitation, waste, perversion, and stupidity just like anything else. BUT... you have a CHANCE to make a better life for yourself. Total state domination means there is only ONE chance for things to work out and it all rests on the government doing everything correctly... which they never have.
I'm sorry. My family didn't cross the ocean to this country to live under a new nobility preaching a new state religion... utterly intolerant of any other ideology or faith.
People like you are why people left other places to come to the US.
There... you got me to rant at you. Happy now?
We don't need to be enemies. Our parents weren't and our grand parents weren't. You need to live and let live and we can live in peace. I'll watch your back and you can watch mine. But if you keep trying to control me through the state and coming up with various justifications to do so then we can't be allies. I won't let you put chains on me.
Thanks, your strawman argument really put me in my place.
I didn't say the businesses care about us. Some of them do but the really big ones are obviously soulless machines that don't care about anyone.
That said, we need to pay our rent and our mortgages and put our kids through school.
Destroying the companies that pay us takes food out of the mouths of our children. And I guess you find it shocking that we'd have a problem with that.
You're right, republicans have reduced federal funding hugely.
US federal funding on a per capita basis is only a fraction of what it was in the 19... anything. Oh wait... federal spending is at record levels and has on a steady trend upward for generations.
Just because you're a believer in the second amendment for example it does not mean you're a creationist.
In this case, captain strawman, we're talking about the department of energy. Which was not involved in creationism or evolution.
This is reprisals for the "green economy" push from the DoE.
That's what it is. Now you want to lie to yourself or to me about it? Fine... we can play games if you want. But THAT is the straight story.
Now did the DoE have to cooperate with the Green Energy push? Yes and no. They're subject to the whims of the executive but they could have also distanced themselves from the whole thing as well. Offering up their research without taking political sides.
Do you remember Solyndra? Do you remember the many green energy projects that went belly up? That was the fruits of the DoE green economy push. And the price? Aside from the billions if federal funding was the justification of increased taxes and regulation on "dirty" US industry.
The US coal industry is on the brink of collapse. You think its just big evil coal companies that care about that? There are communities that survive on the coal industry. Cut that off and you'll beggar their communities. So they're going to throw their support behind any politician that can save their community.
And then there is the question of where you're going to get energy from now that you've shut down the nuclear power plants and coal plants? Apparently no where? Have fun with that. So far you've just been increasing the cost of energy which just makes life harder for people that have tight budgets.
And then you have other industries that need cheap energy to be competitive... manufacturing for example... the manufacturing of solar panels ironically is not competitive unless you have access to abundant cheap energy.
Shutting down US coal and nuclear plants makes it harder to make solar panels in the US.
You can make them in china of course... they still have coal and nuclear plants.
That's fine. You're playing politics and it is in your political interest to make that point. I'm being honest, unlike you... and am willing to tell you why things are the way they are... and I'm trying to show you how things could change.
But you don't care about that. You just want to keep playing your political games. And that's fine. You're not the only one that can play and in situations where its more serious the opposition isn't going to be honest with you either. Because you use honesty against people. You use openness against people. These are weaknesses in the world you're supporting.
And so you challenge us to come up with lies, misinformation, and distortions to counter yours.
Like all good lies, most of what you're pushing are half truths. The point of which is to hide the lies in the clothes of reason and good sense.
Its an ancient rhetorical tactic. It fools none but the fools.
Really? And do they pay for their FCC radio licenses?
No they don't. They also didn't pay for their tv license.
Do you know what those are worth? Do you know how many radio stations NPR has nationally?
Now here you're going to say they're non-profit or something. Fine. Then clearly I can set up my own radio station on the same terms, right? No I can't. Only NPR can do it. If I try to do on the same terms, I'm going to have to buy spectrum even if no one is using it. And then I'm going to have to pay taxes and fees on it. NPR doesn't have to do that.
So on that basis alone NPR's estimation of funding is wrong.
But it gets worse, because a lot of their funding comes from publicly funded state and city agencies which themselves receive a lot of money from the federal government for similar services. Its therefore in most cases a shell game.
And while the incurious and stupid might be confused by such accounting gimmickry... I am not.
And why do I have to accept a libertarian perspective whatever that is... or especially care what you interpret is or is not libertarian?
And on the point of libertarians, are they known for being particularly good at politics? No they're not. They are generally regarded as being amongst the most incompetent practitioners of politics in the world.
Radical communists are better at politics. Foaming at the mouth religious zealots are better at politics. Shotgun dictators are better at politics.
Libertarians for all their good points are incompetent at politics and everyone knows it but the libertarians.
So, taking into consideration that libertarians are terrible at politics... your point is that most political factions don't do things the way libertarians would like... shocking.
Libertarians need to get tough if they ever want power. They need to make people fear them. If you play all care bear on the issue then the other factions are just going to slap you in the face repeatedly while laughing at you.
I'm not advocating that they do that. I'm saying they will do it if you're too weak to make them stop.
I don't think any serious person thinks that Galileo woke up one morning and said lets do politics. No, he was at church, the story goes, say the chandeliers swinging, and ended up being persecuted by the politicians of the time.
Actually that's exactly what he did. If you know anything about the story with him, you'll know that the man attacked his rivals in science for decades. Humiliated them with insults and insinuations.
When Galileo presented his theories, he used as the evidence, many of the scientists he had been undermining for years.
A large part of the reason he had a problem was that he gone out of his way to be an asshole for many years. And when he was in a vulnerable place his enemies descended upon him to take their revenge.
And to further underscore the point since you're clearly totally ignorant on the issue... what happened to him? He was protected by the Pope. A much more powerful station then today.
Consider while you're saying it wasn't about politics, that the man flew in very ratified political circles and he did so on purpose. You think he didn't like politics or power or wealth or fame? Get real. Learn something about the man before you hold him up as evidence of anything.
Depends on what you mean. If you're talking about evolution versus creationism then of course you're correct. But that isn't why the department of energy is looking to get their budget cut.
For one thing you've got all the "green jobs" "green economy" crap that the democrats pushed and used to justify shutting down existing industry and business... putting big taxes on such businesses... etc... on the theory that it would create a new green economy.
Because the democrats think it is literally impossible to kill the economy.
They think they can't raise taxes high enough or set regulations too high. They think they can do whatever to the system and it will always over come it. Which means they think they have no responsibility to do things efficiently or reasonably. You ask for them to be reasonable and they simply say its a political dispute. Well fine. Then the political games begin.
Game... the fuck... on.
Now you're going to sit there and attempt to be smug by claiming that the scientists are only doing their jobs and only pushing out the facts. This despite the fact that they were used as pawns in political power plays on an international level. Sorry. You're either in the game or your out of the game.
None of this showing up to take pot shots and then scuttling off before counter fire lands. The political powers that be don't work that way. On either side. You enter the game... you take fire.
I am not defending it. I am not saying it should be this way. I am saying it "IS" this way. You're a believer in science and reality?
Correct? This is reality. And its hypocritical to only get upset when one side does it. You want to get mad? Get mad at both sides.
I could go over the dozen people and organizations the democrats went after over the last decade for no greater reason then that they undermined something they were trying to do and thus had to be nuked.
But why bother. Here is the long and the short of it:
The democrats involved the DoE with their green energy push which was used to attack the "evil" "dirty" industry in the US which has been struggling for decades under increasing regulation. Look at US industry... is it thriving? Not really. And democrats thought in the middle of a recession that it was a good idea to attack what little industry we have left.
As usual... the democrats are fucking geniuses. So yeah... the DoE is going to get a shot across their bow if only to make them respect the lines they cross when they get involved in the political projects.
You get involved in politics... you take sides... and there are consequences.
NPR for example is under similar threat of being defunded for the same reason. They took sides and when they stopped acting in the interests of all sides they became the enemy of sides they did not support... or the allies of sides they did support... and via the friend of my enemy is my enemy logic which is standard in politics... they became enemies.
Here someone is going to bitch at me like I had any part in any of these consequences.
Don't get mad at me. I didn't do anything one way or the other. All I'm doing is explaining what happened.
contractor is at fault if they sign a contract and then fail to live up to the terms. Further, the government or any customer/client should not be liable to pay for a project that is not completed to contractual specification.
You're using examples where they were given the option of doing it ad hoc.
Consider if as part of the appopriations you made it a requirement by law that they go with option 2.
By all means, you can have some projects that go by option 1. But if you want 300 million dollars and you have a track record of fucking it up... Require them to go with option 2 so our money doesn't get wasted. IF the contractor fails to deliver they don't get paid.
The burden must be on the government to be very clear about what it wants and then on the contractor to deliver that need.
These "cost plus" projects are fine during time of war when we're trying to accelerate experimental projects into battle platforms. But it is a very poor way to run thing in any other context.
Slashdot Mirror
... apparently math is really hard for some people. What portion of the total company revenue/profits do you think is spent on such things?
Its a tiny fraction of most companies. Even the most lavishly paid CEOs rarely make more then 1 percent of revenue.
And bribes to politicians are embarrassingly cheap. You can buy most congressman for about 10 thousand to 40 thousand dollars. Senators can be bought for about 40 thousand to 500 thousand if its a majority leader.
The expected return for lobbying is generally about 100 to 1. That is, if a company donates 50,000 to a political campaign they expect that to net them a minimum of 50 million dollars either in tax savings, government contracts, regulation changes, etc.
So no. Companies are not going broke buying whores and private jets for their elites. Some might be but that's usual. What's eating them alive is the bottom line.
And your fucking around with the regulatory and tax environment is the problem.
Full stop. Why is manufacturing thriving in southern states and dying in northern states?
Only difference is the regulatory environment. You're wrong and if you were introspective enough and honest enough you'd admit it.
That's fine. Your tax and spend system is going to collapse eventually. And when it does the political model you've created on providing subsidies in exchange for political support will also collapse.
Its too bad you'll destroy the country in the process but you're a cancer for which there is apparently no cure.
The founders didn't account for you sadly.
When the US was founded, the founders tried to learn from the mistakes of past civilizations. From the romans, the greeks, the english, etc.
Their studies were not sufficient apparently because this is in part what brought the old roman empire down.
We might persist in this fashion for another 400 years. But we're unlikely to last much beyond that. You're addicted to deficit spending. And you've made it impossible to cut entitlements. Anyone tries and you label them as something horrible.
Fine... we'll just keep increasing spending at a higher rate then the US economy is growing. What could possibly go wrong.
The idea with cutting revenue is to force YOU to cut spending. You refuse to compromise on the issue. You just play games and lie.
If you play your game as well as you have so far you'll kill the country. Congratulations.
The only hope for this country at this point is that you either wise up... I won't hold my breath there... or you make some tactical error that causes you to suffer strategic losses.
Either way... its not looking good for America. It sad. Its a great country but you've infected us with a fatal disease. Here's hoping the civilizations that learn from us learn the lesson well.
That's fine... its a free country and I won't tell you what to believe.
And for what its worth to you, I'm against the excesses of the TSA, NSA, etc. I'm with Snowden and etc. Again for what that's worth to you.
But at the same time, I take it as naive to think the libertarians are ever going to get anywhere.
They're not vicious enough to hold on to power. They're not willing to inflict pain. To drive their enemies before them and hear the lamentations of their women.
It is the naive conceit of libertarians to think they can do everything through some utopian political policy where everyone respects everyone.
They never will. And that belief is an expression of a fundamental misunderstanding of what respect is in the first place.
Most people only respect people to the extent they can hurt you. That sounds cynical but its just realism. If you want rights you have to make it clear to those that would take them that you can hurt them or better yet destroy them. And in that... you have respect.
What is mine is mine because if you try to take it... I will hurt you. And that is the only reason it is mine and the only reason I will ever keep anything.
Libertarians don't understand that on a basic level and until they do they'll never get anywhere.
The instant they have power... someone else will come along and take it from them. Candy from a baby. What are you going to do? You going to stop them? You and what army.
Libertarians need to brew a dark side. They need to make some deals with their own personal demons... short of that... they're going to be seen as cattle to be slaughtered at will.
Very well said.
I'll also point out that some of the evidence he used to back up his theory was collected by some of the people in the jury. And that he had gone out of his way to undermine and humiliate those same people for years.
The jury was clearly corrupt and had a major conflict of interest. But the man was also asking for it and was hardly without blame.
He ran around pissing people off, kicking over beehives, and shockingly the fool got stung.
The lesson no one learns but should is that you shouldn't build your career on annoying people to no purpose.
Which federal department did bush use to back up his loan program and did that program hurt democrats or undermine their interests?
If you can't show a federal agency he uses then your point is irrelevant to the issue.
If you can't show that it undermined democrats or hurt their interests then your point is irrelevant to the issue.
Regardless, you're committed to playing political games. That's fine. It doesn't confuse, fool, or surprise me. You're like a 4 year old playing hide and go seek that doesn't know I can see you feet poking out behind the couch.
You expect me to walk around saying at "where is he?!... oh where is he!?"
Why should I humor you? Its a game suitable only for the callow. I am too experienced and jaded to find any reason to pretend its valid. Its a stupid lie.
Come up with better ones... ideally ones you personally fashioned rather then simply cribbing them from the national party talking points like most of your pathetic ilk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I can't help you if you're willfully ignorant.
We can't cut spending. You've worked very hard to make that impossible. Your whole political position is based on the idea of giving people stuff. You give people free healthcare, free food, free housing, free education, free transport, free cell phones, free anything and everything.
Except none of it is free.
You say you care about helping the poor and the needy. And i think for many of you that is true. But the reality is that many in your faction only give away these things as a means to power. That is they don't seek power to help the poor. They help the poor to get power.
Now helping the poor is great. I'm all for it. But when helping the poor is your means to power it is not in your interest for there to be fewer poor people any more then it is in McDonald's interest for there to be more health conscious people. Your ideology thrives on poverty. The poorer and more desperate people are the stronger you become. And whatever you believe, your politicians know this and exploit it on an ongoing basis.
Part of this desire for illegal immigrants from south of the border is because the democrats know it serves their interests to have as many poor ignorant people as possible on the government dole.
That is how your politicians get into power and keep it.
So I have very little patience for you claims to moral or ethical virtue on this issue. Your political party would be very much at home in the old Roman Senate. They played the same games. Gave free food to the masses. Grain ships arrived from Egypt daily providing the people of Rome with free food. The masses. The mob. And it worked out great for the empire and the senators until it rotted the heart out of the empire.
The specifics of the issue are likely beyond you and your likely tiny attention span. But the point is that I am deeply unimpressed with your silly notion that the republicans are MORE responsible for the sorry state of our budget because they want to cut taxes. You can't just raise taxes infinitely... and that is apparently what the democrats want.
They've never said how much is too much. They've never said what is fair. They always say they want more. And when they get that they want more again.
No. If the US government needs to go bankrupt to short circuit your parasitic political games then so be it.
You are buying elections. That is what you've been trying to do since the New Deal. Nothing more or less.
Nice... so republicans are to blame for your own tax and spend nightmare.
Tell me, are democrats ever responsible for anything? Or is that literally impossible? Because you seem to employ these hilarious circular logic loops where things that are good are the responsibility of the democrats indifferent to whether they had anything to do with it and things that are bad are the responsibility of the republicans whether or not they had anything to do with it.
And in this you think you have any basis to judge me or really anyone else?
This is the problem with your ideology. Its all promises and other people's money. You sit there and promise people everything... anything.
And you try to deliver it by jacking up taxes and making life miserable for anyone that actually is able to operate under your absurd system.
And then when all is said and done... you fail. The people that depended on you get fucked. Its bread lines and government rations if we're lucky.
I'm not saying other systems are great... they're just less deceitful and stupid.
No, I'm saying you used a scientific organization as a puppet for a political program that hurt a lot of people and is in the process of destroying industries, communities, and ways of life. And as a result, the political allies of the people you hurt are reaching out to disrupt, break, and punish those that did that.
The science is irrelevant to the issue. You hurt people and they respond. You disrespect people and they respond.
Why would you think you could go after all these people and destroy them with no consequences? Who do you think you're dealing with here? We're every bit as smart as you are sport. Even our grasp of science is much the same despite your probable assumptions on that issue.
What seperates us is not our education or ability to reason. It is our intentions and interests. You are trying to fuck people over and you used a federal agency to do it. You are now apparently shocked that those people you tried to fuck or actually fucked are going after that federal agency.
And you think we are stupid? Of course we're going after it. You're going to have to defend it now and have fun trying to get funding for the DoE now that you've turned it into a political pawn.
You've undermined the country with that shit. These agencies must remain impartial and neutral or they can't be tolerated. These organizations must be for EVERYONE. All sides. Mutual. Or they are undeserving of common funds.
You're right... hydraulic fracturing on private land is booming in spite of the best efforts of the administration to kill it.
But that's only because they've been unable to stop it. And they've been unable to stop it because WE protected them.
The EPA and similar organizations have been trying to stop and forbid fracking for years. They're saying it causes earth quakes or that areas that have had natural gas in their well water for GENERATIONS only now are able to light their well water on fire.
Something you should look at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You won't probably. But this is what you're dealing with... its not giant soulless raping companies. Its people. And you're fucking them and you don't care. And for that they're going to reach out to their political allies and ask them to do what they can to stop it.
The DoE was used as a tool to hurt people.
So those allies are now going out to hurt the DoE.
I regret that all these things are happening. Its sad. But this is what happens when you play political games. There is a price. And denial simply reinforces the political battle lines.
If you lie to me now and say this isn't a political fight... it just sends the rhetorical signal that you're so committed to your games that you can't even admit it.
We're not asking for anything special here. Just leave us alone.
No one is against you building something new.
The creation and advocacy is not what gets you in trouble.
It was when you tried to destroy everything else to make room for it.
And really, all you're doing is justifying using the DoE to attack industries and play political power games.
Fine... you think you have the right to do that. Good for you. You've now made the DoE a political tool in your political campaign.
Fact.
So guess what, sparky... the political opponents are going to attack that tool as well as everything else in it. Are you shocked? you shouldn't be.
I didn't say they didn't build a working factory.
I said they failed.
How many people does solyndra employ today? Where are the green jobs?
This is the recurring problem with the left. They promise everyone a world of rainbows and unicorn cheeseburgers. But when push comes to shove... you fail. You don't deliver. All your promises don't come out... the reality checks bounce... and then what happens? People like me are stuck in some disintegrating city eating gruel and standing in line to get government rations.
Fuck that.
Is free enterprise perfect? Hell no. its full of exploitation, waste, perversion, and stupidity just like anything else. BUT... you have a CHANCE to make a better life for yourself. Total state domination means there is only ONE chance for things to work out and it all rests on the government doing everything correctly... which they never have.
I'm sorry. My family didn't cross the ocean to this country to live under a new nobility preaching a new state religion... utterly intolerant of any other ideology or faith.
People like you are why people left other places to come to the US.
There... you got me to rant at you. Happy now?
We don't need to be enemies. Our parents weren't and our grand parents weren't. You need to live and let live and we can live in peace. I'll watch your back and you can watch mine. But if you keep trying to control me through the state and coming up with various justifications to do so then we can't be allies. I won't let you put chains on me.
Thanks, your strawman argument really put me in my place.
I didn't say the businesses care about us. Some of them do but the really big ones are obviously soulless machines that don't care about anyone.
That said, we need to pay our rent and our mortgages and put our kids through school.
Destroying the companies that pay us takes food out of the mouths of our children. And I guess you find it shocking that we'd have a problem with that.
You're right, republicans have reduced federal funding hugely.
US federal funding on a per capita basis is only a fraction of what it was in the 19... anything. Oh wait... federal spending is at record levels and has on a steady trend upward for generations.
You're a fool.
Both sides are diverse political coalitions.
Just because you're a believer in the second amendment for example it does not mean you're a creationist.
In this case, captain strawman, we're talking about the department of energy. Which was not involved in creationism or evolution.
This is reprisals for the "green economy" push from the DoE.
That's what it is. Now you want to lie to yourself or to me about it? Fine... we can play games if you want. But THAT is the straight story.
Now did the DoE have to cooperate with the Green Energy push? Yes and no. They're subject to the whims of the executive but they could have also distanced themselves from the whole thing as well. Offering up their research without taking political sides.
Do you remember Solyndra? Do you remember the many green energy projects that went belly up? That was the fruits of the DoE green economy push. And the price? Aside from the billions if federal funding was the justification of increased taxes and regulation on "dirty" US industry.
The US coal industry is on the brink of collapse. You think its just big evil coal companies that care about that? There are communities that survive on the coal industry. Cut that off and you'll beggar their communities. So they're going to throw their support behind any politician that can save their community.
And then there is the question of where you're going to get energy from now that you've shut down the nuclear power plants and coal plants? Apparently no where? Have fun with that. So far you've just been increasing the cost of energy which just makes life harder for people that have tight budgets.
And then you have other industries that need cheap energy to be competitive... manufacturing for example... the manufacturing of solar panels ironically is not competitive unless you have access to abundant cheap energy.
Shutting down US coal and nuclear plants makes it harder to make solar panels in the US.
You can make them in china of course... they still have coal and nuclear plants.
That's fine. You're playing politics and it is in your political interest to make that point. I'm being honest, unlike you... and am willing to tell you why things are the way they are... and I'm trying to show you how things could change.
But you don't care about that. You just want to keep playing your political games. And that's fine. You're not the only one that can play and in situations where its more serious the opposition isn't going to be honest with you either. Because you use honesty against people. You use openness against people. These are weaknesses in the world you're supporting.
And so you challenge us to come up with lies, misinformation, and distortions to counter yours.
Like all good lies, most of what you're pushing are half truths. The point of which is to hide the lies in the clothes of reason and good sense.
Its an ancient rhetorical tactic. It fools none but the fools.
Really? And do they pay for their FCC radio licenses?
No they don't. They also didn't pay for their tv license.
Do you know what those are worth? Do you know how many radio stations NPR has nationally?
Now here you're going to say they're non-profit or something. Fine. Then clearly I can set up my own radio station on the same terms, right? No I can't. Only NPR can do it. If I try to do on the same terms, I'm going to have to buy spectrum even if no one is using it. And then I'm going to have to pay taxes and fees on it. NPR doesn't have to do that.
So on that basis alone NPR's estimation of funding is wrong.
But it gets worse, because a lot of their funding comes from publicly funded state and city agencies which themselves receive a lot of money from the federal government for similar services. Its therefore in most cases a shell game.
And while the incurious and stupid might be confused by such accounting gimmickry... I am not.
And why do I have to accept a libertarian perspective whatever that is... or especially care what you interpret is or is not libertarian?
And on the point of libertarians, are they known for being particularly good at politics? No they're not. They are generally regarded as being amongst the most incompetent practitioners of politics in the world.
Radical communists are better at politics.
Foaming at the mouth religious zealots are better at politics.
Shotgun dictators are better at politics.
Libertarians for all their good points are incompetent at politics and everyone knows it but the libertarians.
So, taking into consideration that libertarians are terrible at politics... your point is that most political factions don't do things the way libertarians would like... shocking.
Libertarians need to get tough if they ever want power. They need to make people fear them. If you play all care bear on the issue then the other factions are just going to slap you in the face repeatedly while laughing at you.
I'm not advocating that they do that. I'm saying they will do it if you're too weak to make them stop.
Actually that's exactly what he did. If you know anything about the story with him, you'll know that the man attacked his rivals in science for decades. Humiliated them with insults and insinuations.
When Galileo presented his theories, he used as the evidence, many of the scientists he had been undermining for years.
A large part of the reason he had a problem was that he gone out of his way to be an asshole for many years. And when he was in a vulnerable place his enemies descended upon him to take their revenge.
And to further underscore the point since you're clearly totally ignorant on the issue... what happened to him? He was protected by the Pope. A much more powerful station then today.
Consider while you're saying it wasn't about politics, that the man flew in very ratified political circles and he did so on purpose. You think he didn't like politics or power or wealth or fame? Get real. Learn something about the man before you hold him up as evidence of anything.
Depends on what you mean. If you're talking about evolution versus creationism then of course you're correct. But that isn't why the department of energy is looking to get their budget cut.
For one thing you've got all the "green jobs" "green economy" crap that the democrats pushed and used to justify shutting down existing industry and business... putting big taxes on such businesses... etc... on the theory that it would create a new green economy.
Because the democrats think it is literally impossible to kill the economy.
They think they can't raise taxes high enough or set regulations too high. They think they can do whatever to the system and it will always over come it. Which means they think they have no responsibility to do things efficiently or reasonably. You ask for them to be reasonable and they simply say its a political dispute. Well fine. Then the political games begin.
Game... the fuck... on.
Now you're going to sit there and attempt to be smug by claiming that the scientists are only doing their jobs and only pushing out the facts. This despite the fact that they were used as pawns in political power plays on an international level. Sorry. You're either in the game or your out of the game.
None of this showing up to take pot shots and then scuttling off before counter fire lands. The political powers that be don't work that way. On either side. You enter the game... you take fire.
I am not defending it. I am not saying it should be this way. I am saying it "IS" this way. You're a believer in science and reality?
Correct? This is reality. And its hypocritical to only get upset when one side does it. You want to get mad? Get mad at both sides.
I could go over the dozen people and organizations the democrats went after over the last decade for no greater reason then that they undermined something they were trying to do and thus had to be nuked.
But why bother. Here is the long and the short of it:
The democrats involved the DoE with their green energy push which was used to attack the "evil" "dirty" industry in the US which has been struggling for decades under increasing regulation. Look at US industry... is it thriving? Not really. And democrats thought in the middle of a recession that it was a good idea to attack what little industry we have left.
As usual... the democrats are fucking geniuses. So yeah... the DoE is going to get a shot across their bow if only to make them respect the lines they cross when they get involved in the political projects.
You get involved in politics... you take sides... and there are consequences.
NPR for example is under similar threat of being defunded for the same reason. They took sides and when they stopped acting in the interests of all sides they became the enemy of sides they did not support... or the allies of sides they did support... and via the friend of my enemy is my enemy logic which is standard in politics... they became enemies.
Here someone is going to bitch at me like I had any part in any of these consequences.
Don't get mad at me. I didn't do anything one way or the other. All I'm doing is explaining what happened.
Again, the status quo is not acceptable. Do you have a solution or nothing what so ever that is constructive?
contractor is at fault if they sign a contract and then fail to live up to the terms. Further, the government or any customer/client should not be liable to pay for a project that is not completed to contractual specification.
You're using examples where they were given the option of doing it ad hoc.
Consider if as part of the appopriations you made it a requirement by law that they go with option 2.
By all means, you can have some projects that go by option 1. But if you want 300 million dollars and you have a track record of fucking it up... Require them to go with option 2 so our money doesn't get wasted. IF the contractor fails to deliver they don't get paid.
The burden must be on the government to be very clear about what it wants and then on the contractor to deliver that need.
These "cost plus" projects are fine during time of war when we're trying to accelerate experimental projects into battle platforms. But it is a very poor way to run thing in any other context.