I'd almost prefer him go into music... none of my business of course... it's just that exceptional people probably do the most good doing something creative. Be that expanding our understanding in science or advancing something in one of the arts or inventing something in some form of engineering.
He's a 21 year old kid that has spent a lot of his time hitting the books harder then anyone. And he can do whatever wants. The best of luck to him.
Fine... take my choices away... I'm clearly too stupid to make any decisions on my own.
Included in that will be not doing my job or paying my rent/mortage because that's obviously beyond my limited intelligence.
I'll just sit here and force you to feed me and clean up my shit until I die of old age.
Am I being reasonable? No. But then neither are you. If you're not going to be reasonable then neither am I.
If you want me to cooperate then don't insert yourself into my personal life. If I want internet service, I'll worry about that. I don't need the condo assuming it can bargain on my behalf. If I individually give it that right then fine. If you assume it and run roughshod over me... then it's game on.
I'm not asking for much here. Just don't claim authority you don't have.
Beyond that, I've seen most attempts at these in condos and they tend to either have wildly inflated costs or not work.
I'll choose option three, thank you. The one where I can contract individually and not have to deal with anyone else.
When you join a condo you're not joining a community as much as the board likes to pretend that. You don't know those people and you often don't particularly care for them. They're neighbors... People that happen to live near you.
so if I wanted to have nothing to do with your project from the beginning you would not force me to use or force me to pay for it?
If you're not forcing me to participate, then I think it's a great system and I'm all for it. if you are... then I think it's evil and must be killed with fire.
Not at all. I think your idea is great and I was well aware of the option before you said anything.
What you didn't understand... and I'm going to explain again... is that you must give INDIVIDUALS a choice. If I don't want your service. Do not force me to pay for it. If I want service then let me choose the provider I want.
If that means i don't get this great deal you're talking about... that's my problem. You offered and I said no. The consequences are my fault.
But you don't have a right to force me.
That is my point.
My argument is not a logistical one. It is an ethical one. You don't have a right tell people which service provider to use and not use.
That makes no more sense then nationalizing tennis shoes or restaurants.
Obviously there will always be those believe they know better then anyone else and think they have the right to tell everyone what to do. You are one of those people. You don't believe in freedom. You're effectively a communist. When the government controls everything and the individual has no choice... what then?
And what if your perfect little system turns out to be a disaster? Will you admit it? Of course not. Much like the north koreans you'll blame all your failures on other people and patrol the streets telling the poor people you've oppressed to work harder.
And it gets better... even if your system does fail like the soviet union you still won't admit the error of your ways. Instead, you'll say it failed because it wasn't done right. And if you just had another opportunity you'd get it right this time.
Except you never do. It's been tried repeatedly. And every time it goes to same place.
If you hate freedom, leave the US. We don't need you. Go be someone else's slave. I'd throw master in there but we both know that isn't happening.
We have a handyman employed by the building who basically does odd jobs and helps maintain the building. His skill set doesn't include maintaining a partitioned network. He can't take care of that. Which means we'd need a volunteer to do it which is always dicey since you can't really fire them. Or you'd need to pay someone to take care of it which means you just lost whatever savings you think you were making.
This sort of things makes sense for a big organization. But a condo isn't really a big organization. It's one building that hosts a lot of little sub organizations with different needs and interests. We're not joining a club. We're buying a home. Just because I move in next to someone doesn't mean I want to be their friend etc. Not that I don't mind being neighborly... it just shouldn't be a requirement if I have other ideas.
By the same logic why not do that for the whole country? Everyone could have cheap internet.
The logic sounds compelling but there are devils in the details. I prefer to keep things separated and let people make their own minds up.
Further your cost projections are not as good as you think.
I get 15 mbps cable internet and pay only 20 dollars a month for it. It's bundled with some other things as a package deal.
If my condo forced me to buy their program I wouldn't be able to make those deals or if I did I would be paying twice for the same thing.
Let me make my own arrangements. it's all well and good if people want to join your club. But just because I buy a condo it doesn't mean I want to be lectured to by every other resident about how I should or should live. And I do not appreciate them trying to make me pay for things that I do not want or need. I pay my share which is to cover building maintenance. If people want something more they can get people to voluntarily chip in to get that service. Try to force me to buy in regardless of whether you took a vote and I'll rally the other malcontents in the building to make sure it dies.
I've done this in my own condo repeatedly and there are a few people that don't like me. I'm not telling them what to do. They can do whatever they want. Just leave me out of it. If they want my support for something then keep it optional. Point blank.
The ISPs are very happy to offer service individually to residents. Rather then having some building wide system, let residents work it out for themselves.
In my building, we have cable and DSL. The cable is handled entirely by the cable company and the DSL is handled entirely by the phone company.
The homeowner's association pays to maintain the telephone box but mostly it doesn't pay for anything.
This isn't a bad thing. Residents pay no more for internet service then a home owner would and no one is forced into an agreement they don't want. If I didn't want internet service, I could cancel it and pay nothing. If there were a building agreement then I'd be paying whether I wanted to pay or not.
Keep it simple and let residents work it out on their own. Let the cable company worry about the logistics.
Possibly... but should it? And constitutionally does it have any place to assume those responsibilities? Do we care? And if not, then consider that not only does the constitution limit powers it also grants every power the government has in the first place. Invalidate it and the government's whole legal existence is debatable.
This is not a question of having compassion for people. By all means, help people that want help and are willing to take SOME step to get it. Lying dying in the street to be collected by medics is not a step. That's lying there like a lump of meat. How we work it out is debatable. I'm open to ideas. But you can't just keep people alive that aren't going to make any effort on their own.
It's like dealing with people in permanent comas. Do you keep them alive for the rest of their lives on life support? Wash them. Feed them. Etc?
At some point, you have to turn the machines off. Those that are going to live will live. Those that won't... won't.
We are not gods. We don't have the power to fix everyone or the resources to take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. That's another point. How many other people will you deny care to because you've wasted it on people that won't make any effort to save themselves?
Our society will not survive unless people take threats to it's survival seriously.
I suspect much of the drug culture will kill itself if the drugs are legalized. So there will be your public service message right there. A few corpses on a regular basis from junkies that got everything they ever wanted.
Sorry for sound harsh here. But stop for a moment and explain LOGICALLY why we should keep this person breathing?
I'm not saying we kill him. I'm saying we limit our aid to such an extent that without some proactive move on his part to save himself... he'll die.
I don't believe in stopping people from commiting suicide. If he won't do anything to save himself. Then that's his problem. If he wants to save himself, then I'll help him.
The treatment centers for example... don't force anyone into them and don't prevent anyone from leaving. They can go whenever they want. If that means they OD on drugs, that was their choice.
I have no problem with forcing children to stay in such programs. But Adults must choose and lie and die by those choices.
We are a free people or we are not. And that means taking responsibility. Do you take responsibility or are you a child. Point blank.
I've run into it repeatedly. Not sure where I saw it last... but It's been a general rule of mine to not use spaces so I wouldn't find them even if I were using them.
It doesn't matter. The point is that we can remember really lost passwords really easily so long as they're in sentences... ideally recognizable ones such as quotations. And a good long password is a lot stronger then a short one with lots of goofy characters in it. And you don't need to write it down.
Some junkies will kill themselves... but that will taper off quickly. Some kill themselves. Some don't. Some never touch the stuff. If people want to destroy themselves... let them.
It's always some specific thing. They never say the whole planet is off limits. They say the specific place you want to do anything is off limits.
Can I do it here? no.
How about here? no.
Alright, how about here? nope.
Where can I do it? Ask me where you can do it and I'll tell you if that's okay.
You always say no regardless of where I point. That's unfair, you've just happened to pick places you shouldn't build.
But you won't tell me where I can build.
==================
And that's the proof that they're full of crap. Give us a reasonable alternative or I see no reason to be reasonable. You want to play games, then we'll play games.
If you want to have an honest discussion on the matter, then be honest.
A few years ago the Canadians were having a hard time expanding a bridge. Some trees needed to be chopped down or the lanes couldn't be expanded. Hippies near and far flocked to the tree and camped all over it and in it. They refused to go.
So the Canadian government said they were scrapping the whole bridge expansion idea and the hippies win.
The hippies went home to their warm beds that night and at about 4 am that night the work crew cut the tree down. The bridge expansion went through no problem after that.
Similar tactics are common in and around San Francisco given that the hippies tend to camp out on every large project that anyone builds. I have a friend that works in heavy construction in San Francisco. They have to guard their equipment to prevent the ecotwits from sticking bananas in the tail pipes. Sounds funny only it has destroyed multi million dollar machines before. So... not so funny. They're also always chaining themselves to things. The construction crews always have to go to work with a pair of heavy duty bolt cutters. Not because they need them for work but just to cut the stupid chains the hippies chain themselves to everything with....
Get me?
We can be reasonable but only if you're going to be reasonable. If you're going to act crazy then basically we're in a hostage situation.
Nothing we say to you will mean anything. It will be just like what a hostage negotiator says to talk the guy out or save some lives. The goal won't be to get your agreement. The goal will be to get you right where we want you so we can accomplish the mission. If that means telling you that you win. So be it. That helicopter with the suitcase full of money will be here any second. Just come to the window and see...:-)
I'm not going to ask you to be reasonable. I know you won't be. That's fine. As I said, we have an answer for that. Have fun with the results because we sure as shit will.
f' that. I was here first. My family has lived in California for over 100 years. Then all these hippy retards showed up and ruined it. Texas? If I wanted to be in texas believe me... I know where to find it on a map. Texas sucks. Weather is crap, produce is crap... Half of what is saving texas right now is that it's not that pleasant. The idiots flock to nice places. North Dakota will probably be the last place they invade... no offense north dakota (you're cold and isolated.).
Oh by that point the space hippies will have probably all committed suicide out of shame for having ever lived. It is after all the most moral thing to not exist at all.
And having finally won the ultimate prize in the darwin awards we can move on unhindered by their particular breed of stupidity. Doubtless there will be new strains. There always are. But damned if that one has to die out eventually if only because it's too stupid to survive.
Really? And who elected them representatives for the environment? Did Gaia anoint them with a sword from a magical lake? I missed that. Any jackass can claim to be for the environment. It's utterly subjective and arbitrary.
No one is against the environment. That's asinine. Everyone lives here. The difference is that some people are fundamentalists on the point and froth at the mouth every time you want to do ANYTHING and others recognize that the environment is quiet robust and we're not hurting it by dropping a launch pad in the south of Texas. This is stupid. They're stupid. And if they want to go to bat over this issue the results should be hilarious. This one is going through. So they're playing chicken with a freight train. It isn't stopping.
Possibly they will and they'll only have that opportunity because their ancestors made sure they got into space in the first place.
Look at all the ignorant ungrateful aholes in modern society and consider how many of them would be disowned by their ancestors. The legacy we have didn't come from acting like a bunch of pansies.
Anywhere idiots can't claim I'm disturbing the local ecosystem because there won't be one. The moon would be fine only I'm sure they'd declare the man in the moon to be a national park and so outlaw the whole face that points towards the earth. So... dark side of the moon it is...
As to the science fiction nature of my point... possibly... our industrial society cannot coexist with this mentality. Which means we must either regress into a pre industrial state which I will not tolerate or we must annihilate this regressive ideology or we must simply render it irrelevant by leaving any context it can whine about. I'm sure some group will say something about preserving space the way we found it... but that's why god invented tragic oxygen leaks.
Sorry if I'm coming off strong, I'm just frustrated by this mentality. It shuts down everything and never offers constructive or useful solutions. The end result is that we just have nothing. And that means importing things in that we used to provide for ourselves. Things like electricity. I live in California. We can't even build a f'ing solar power plant without the enviro nazis throwing a fit. We had a geothermal operation as well and they said that caused earthquakes. It did... unbelievably tiny ones that don't matter. Like the disturbance you get when a truck drives by... which as you can imagine happens all over the state without causing the state to fall into the sea. But no they killed it all. We wouldn't be able to build the golden gate bridge today because of these people.
And because of that... I'm sorry to say that I hate them. Maybe that's unfair... They just turn up too many times to f' things up for no good reason. I'm beyond tired of it. If they were just reasonable it would be okay. But they're not. And then they get self righteous about their unreasonableness. It's like talking to a mental patient that thinks they're better then you because they're insane.
I feel like the administrator in the pink panther movies... these people make me twitch into a homicidal rage. As far as I'm concerned they're collectively an excellent argument for late term abortions...
Mostly indigenous people slashing and burning for crops. Not 100 percent sure that is the primary driver in south america, but it is the primary driver in Africa. They've practically cut down all their forests. And furthermore, the US has increasing forest cover. We have more forest cover today then at the founding. Mostly this is because of land management... we keep the forests from burning down.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd almost prefer him go into music... none of my business of course... it's just that exceptional people probably do the most good doing something creative. Be that expanding our understanding in science or advancing something in one of the arts or inventing something in some form of engineering.
He's a 21 year old kid that has spent a lot of his time hitting the books harder then anyone. And he can do whatever wants. The best of luck to him.
Fine... take my choices away... I'm clearly too stupid to make any decisions on my own.
Included in that will be not doing my job or paying my rent/mortage because that's obviously beyond my limited intelligence.
I'll just sit here and force you to feed me and clean up my shit until I die of old age.
Am I being reasonable? No. But then neither are you. If you're not going to be reasonable then neither am I.
If you want me to cooperate then don't insert yourself into my personal life. If I want internet service, I'll worry about that. I don't need the condo assuming it can bargain on my behalf. If I individually give it that right then fine. If you assume it and run roughshod over me... then it's game on.
I'm not asking for much here. Just don't claim authority you don't have.
Beyond that, I've seen most attempts at these in condos and they tend to either have wildly inflated costs or not work.
I'll choose option three, thank you. The one where I can contract individually and not have to deal with anyone else.
When you join a condo you're not joining a community as much as the board likes to pretend that. You don't know those people and you often don't particularly care for them. They're neighbors... People that happen to live near you.
Just leave me be.
so if I wanted to have nothing to do with your project from the beginning you would not force me to use or force me to pay for it?
If you're not forcing me to participate, then I think it's a great system and I'm all for it. if you are... then I think it's evil and must be killed with fire.
I do not like being forced.
Not at all. I think your idea is great and I was well aware of the option before you said anything.
What you didn't understand... and I'm going to explain again... is that you must give INDIVIDUALS a choice. If I don't want your service. Do not force me to pay for it. If I want service then let me choose the provider I want.
If that means i don't get this great deal you're talking about... that's my problem. You offered and I said no. The consequences are my fault.
But you don't have a right to force me.
That is my point.
My argument is not a logistical one. It is an ethical one. You don't have a right tell people which service provider to use and not use.
That makes no more sense then nationalizing tennis shoes or restaurants.
Obviously there will always be those believe they know better then anyone else and think they have the right to tell everyone what to do. You are one of those people. You don't believe in freedom. You're effectively a communist. When the government controls everything and the individual has no choice... what then?
And what if your perfect little system turns out to be a disaster? Will you admit it? Of course not. Much like the north koreans you'll blame all your failures on other people and patrol the streets telling the poor people you've oppressed to work harder.
And it gets better... even if your system does fail like the soviet union you still won't admit the error of your ways. Instead, you'll say it failed because it wasn't done right. And if you just had another opportunity you'd get it right this time.
Except you never do. It's been tried repeatedly. And every time it goes to same place.
If you hate freedom, leave the US. We don't need you. Go be someone else's slave. I'd throw master in there but we both know that isn't happening.
The hassle factor in all this is a big deal.
We have a handyman employed by the building who basically does odd jobs and helps maintain the building. His skill set doesn't include maintaining a partitioned network. He can't take care of that. Which means we'd need a volunteer to do it which is always dicey since you can't really fire them. Or you'd need to pay someone to take care of it which means you just lost whatever savings you think you were making.
This sort of things makes sense for a big organization. But a condo isn't really a big organization. It's one building that hosts a lot of little sub organizations with different needs and interests. We're not joining a club. We're buying a home. Just because I move in next to someone doesn't mean I want to be their friend etc. Not that I don't mind being neighborly... it just shouldn't be a requirement if I have other ideas.
By the same logic why not do that for the whole country? Everyone could have cheap internet.
The logic sounds compelling but there are devils in the details. I prefer to keep things separated and let people make their own minds up.
Further your cost projections are not as good as you think.
I get 15 mbps cable internet and pay only 20 dollars a month for it. It's bundled with some other things as a package deal.
If my condo forced me to buy their program I wouldn't be able to make those deals or if I did I would be paying twice for the same thing.
Let me make my own arrangements. it's all well and good if people want to join your club. But just because I buy a condo it doesn't mean I want to be lectured to by every other resident about how I should or should live. And I do not appreciate them trying to make me pay for things that I do not want or need. I pay my share which is to cover building maintenance. If people want something more they can get people to voluntarily chip in to get that service. Try to force me to buy in regardless of whether you took a vote and I'll rally the other malcontents in the building to make sure it dies.
I've done this in my own condo repeatedly and there are a few people that don't like me. I'm not telling them what to do. They can do whatever they want. Just leave me out of it. If they want my support for something then keep it optional. Point blank.
I wouldn't do anything fancy.
The ISPs are very happy to offer service individually to residents. Rather then having some building wide system, let residents work it out for themselves.
In my building, we have cable and DSL. The cable is handled entirely by the cable company and the DSL is handled entirely by the phone company.
The homeowner's association pays to maintain the telephone box but mostly it doesn't pay for anything.
This isn't a bad thing. Residents pay no more for internet service then a home owner would and no one is forced into an agreement they don't want. If I didn't want internet service, I could cancel it and pay nothing. If there were a building agreement then I'd be paying whether I wanted to pay or not.
Keep it simple and let residents work it out on their own. Let the cable company worry about the logistics.
Possibly... but should it? And constitutionally does it have any place to assume those responsibilities? Do we care? And if not, then consider that not only does the constitution limit powers it also grants every power the government has in the first place. Invalidate it and the government's whole legal existence is debatable.
This is not a question of having compassion for people. By all means, help people that want help and are willing to take SOME step to get it. Lying dying in the street to be collected by medics is not a step. That's lying there like a lump of meat. How we work it out is debatable. I'm open to ideas. But you can't just keep people alive that aren't going to make any effort on their own.
It's like dealing with people in permanent comas. Do you keep them alive for the rest of their lives on life support? Wash them. Feed them. Etc?
At some point, you have to turn the machines off. Those that are going to live will live. Those that won't... won't.
We are not gods. We don't have the power to fix everyone or the resources to take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. That's another point. How many other people will you deny care to because you've wasted it on people that won't make any effort to save themselves?
Our society will not survive unless people take threats to it's survival seriously.
There are many ways to achieve the same end.
All I'm saying is that if he cares more for his drug then to live... let him have his drug and die.
I suspect much of the drug culture will kill itself if the drugs are legalized. So there will be your public service message right there. A few corpses on a regular basis from junkies that got everything they ever wanted.
Or let him die.
What exactly is the point of keeping him alive.
Sorry for sound harsh here. But stop for a moment and explain LOGICALLY why we should keep this person breathing?
I'm not saying we kill him. I'm saying we limit our aid to such an extent that without some proactive move on his part to save himself... he'll die.
I don't believe in stopping people from commiting suicide. If he won't do anything to save himself. Then that's his problem. If he wants to save himself, then I'll help him.
The treatment centers for example... don't force anyone into them and don't prevent anyone from leaving. They can go whenever they want. If that means they OD on drugs, that was their choice.
I have no problem with forcing children to stay in such programs. But Adults must choose and lie and die by those choices.
We are a free people or we are not. And that means taking responsibility. Do you take responsibility or are you a child. Point blank.
No... I was making distinctions.
There are junkies that will kill themselves.
There are junkies that won't.
There are non-junkies that won't touch it at all whether legal or not.
Let the chips fall where they may.
I've run into it repeatedly. Not sure where I saw it last... but It's been a general rule of mine to not use spaces so I wouldn't find them even if I were using them.
It doesn't matter. The point is that we can remember really lost passwords really easily so long as they're in sentences... ideally recognizable ones such as quotations. And a good long password is a lot stronger then a short one with lots of goofy characters in it. And you don't need to write it down.
All of it.
Some junkies will kill themselves... but that will taper off quickly. Some kill themselves. Some don't. Some never touch the stuff. If people want to destroy themselves... let them.
Well, then everyone gets the title...
and with that you have no high horse...
mission accomplished.
Depends... it's often hydrogen and liquid oxygen which when burned gives of energy and steam.
Some of the fuels are toxic but the ones used for the NASA heavy lift programs were all hydrogen and liquid oxygen.
It's always some specific thing. They never say the whole planet is off limits. They say the specific place you want to do anything is off limits.
Can I do it here?
no.
How about here?
no.
Alright, how about here?
nope.
Where can I do it?
Ask me where you can do it and I'll tell you if that's okay.
You always say no regardless of where I point.
That's unfair, you've just happened to pick places you shouldn't build.
But you won't tell me where I can build.
==================
And that's the proof that they're full of crap. Give us a reasonable alternative or I see no reason to be reasonable. You want to play games, then we'll play games.
If you want to have an honest discussion on the matter, then be honest.
A few years ago the Canadians were having a hard time expanding a bridge. Some trees needed to be chopped down or the lanes couldn't be expanded. Hippies near and far flocked to the tree and camped all over it and in it. They refused to go.
So the Canadian government said they were scrapping the whole bridge expansion idea and the hippies win.
The hippies went home to their warm beds that night and at about 4 am that night the work crew cut the tree down. The bridge expansion went through no problem after that.
Similar tactics are common in and around San Francisco given that the hippies tend to camp out on every large project that anyone builds. I have a friend that works in heavy construction in San Francisco. They have to guard their equipment to prevent the ecotwits from sticking bananas in the tail pipes. Sounds funny only it has destroyed multi million dollar machines before. So... not so funny. They're also always chaining themselves to things. The construction crews always have to go to work with a pair of heavy duty bolt cutters. Not because they need them for work but just to cut the stupid chains the hippies chain themselves to everything with....
Get me?
We can be reasonable but only if you're going to be reasonable. If you're going to act crazy then basically we're in a hostage situation.
Nothing we say to you will mean anything. It will be just like what a hostage negotiator says to talk the guy out or save some lives. The goal won't be to get your agreement. The goal will be to get you right where we want you so we can accomplish the mission. If that means telling you that you win. So be it. That helicopter with the suitcase full of money will be here any second. Just come to the window and see... :-)
I'm not going to ask you to be reasonable. I know you won't be. That's fine. As I said, we have an answer for that. Have fun with the results because we sure as shit will.
f' that. I was here first. My family has lived in California for over 100 years. Then all these hippy retards showed up and ruined it. Texas? If I wanted to be in texas believe me... I know where to find it on a map. Texas sucks. Weather is crap, produce is crap... Half of what is saving texas right now is that it's not that pleasant. The idiots flock to nice places. North Dakota will probably be the last place they invade... no offense north dakota (you're cold and isolated.).
Oh by that point the space hippies will have probably all committed suicide out of shame for having ever lived. It is after all the most moral thing to not exist at all.
And having finally won the ultimate prize in the darwin awards we can move on unhindered by their particular breed of stupidity. Doubtless there will be new strains. There always are. But damned if that one has to die out eventually if only because it's too stupid to survive.
Really? And who elected them representatives for the environment? Did Gaia anoint them with a sword from a magical lake? I missed that. Any jackass can claim to be for the environment. It's utterly subjective and arbitrary.
No one is against the environment. That's asinine. Everyone lives here. The difference is that some people are fundamentalists on the point and froth at the mouth every time you want to do ANYTHING and others recognize that the environment is quiet robust and we're not hurting it by dropping a launch pad in the south of Texas. This is stupid. They're stupid. And if they want to go to bat over this issue the results should be hilarious. This one is going through. So they're playing chicken with a freight train. It isn't stopping.
mostly because most password systems don't allow spaces. You can fill a password with exclamation points and ampersands but just try and use a space.
Possibly they will and they'll only have that opportunity because their ancestors made sure they got into space in the first place.
Look at all the ignorant ungrateful aholes in modern society and consider how many of them would be disowned by their ancestors. The legacy we have didn't come from acting like a bunch of pansies.
Anywhere idiots can't claim I'm disturbing the local ecosystem because there won't be one. The moon would be fine only I'm sure they'd declare the man in the moon to be a national park and so outlaw the whole face that points towards the earth. So... dark side of the moon it is...
As to the science fiction nature of my point... possibly... our industrial society cannot coexist with this mentality. Which means we must either regress into a pre industrial state which I will not tolerate or we must annihilate this regressive ideology or we must simply render it irrelevant by leaving any context it can whine about. I'm sure some group will say something about preserving space the way we found it... but that's why god invented tragic oxygen leaks.
Sorry if I'm coming off strong, I'm just frustrated by this mentality. It shuts down everything and never offers constructive or useful solutions. The end result is that we just have nothing. And that means importing things in that we used to provide for ourselves. Things like electricity. I live in California. We can't even build a f'ing solar power plant without the enviro nazis throwing a fit. We had a geothermal operation as well and they said that caused earthquakes. It did... unbelievably tiny ones that don't matter. Like the disturbance you get when a truck drives by... which as you can imagine happens all over the state without causing the state to fall into the sea. But no they killed it all. We wouldn't be able to build the golden gate bridge today because of these people.
And because of that... I'm sorry to say that I hate them. Maybe that's unfair... They just turn up too many times to f' things up for no good reason. I'm beyond tired of it. If they were just reasonable it would be okay. But they're not. And then they get self righteous about their unreasonableness. It's like talking to a mental patient that thinks they're better then you because they're insane.
I feel like the administrator in the pink panther movies... these people make me twitch into a homicidal rage. As far as I'm concerned they're collectively an excellent argument for late term abortions...
Mostly indigenous people slashing and burning for crops. Not 100 percent sure that is the primary driver in south america, but it is the primary driver in Africa. They've practically cut down all their forests. And furthermore, the US has increasing forest cover. We have more forest cover today then at the founding. Mostly this is because of land management... we keep the forests from burning down.