So you are actively contributing to the project?
You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice?
I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.
Just because someone wants to write it does not mean it should be written, this project is a waste of good resources.
Please explain in full sentences, because you keep saying "I WANNA" with no substantiation.
Imagine what these talented developers could have done with their time instead.
You still have not explained anything, so I hereby call your "argument" a childish spat, and therefore not worth consideration.
Grow up a bit child, and then come back and actually have a discussion.
What's the point in watching TV? Entertainment?
What's the point in reading a book? Entertainment?
What's the point in doing the crossword or the sudoku in the paper? Entertainment?
What's the point jogging or running (if you're not going to compete at the Olympics)? Entertainment or Achievement?
What's the point in reading interesting science articles if your not a researcher in the field? Entertainment?
What's the point in sitting outside at night and watching the stars (unless of course you’re a paid astronomer)? Entertainment?
What's the point in going away on holiday / vacation? Entertainment?
What's the point in going exactly what it is you enjoy doing, if you'll get criticised by others who see no utilitarian value in what you do? Entertainment - or you are a millenial
And finally, what's the point in helping to develop ReactOS? Nothing tangible other than entertainment?
So girls just want to have fun?
FFS serving at a soup kitchen would add more value to society, but fuckit, I suppose it's their own time, they are free to do with it as they wish. Just seems a waste of resources.
We are pretty much a MS software stack development house. We may use other programming languages etc. but the operating systems etc. are almost exclusively MS, as are most of the languages. I will bet a beer you have NEVER EVER looked into the *nix source code, so you have no fucking clue what is under the hood either. The difference is that you can look into the code (if you wanted to and could actually understand what was going on), I cannot look into the code (even though I actually want to but also would take time to figure stuff out), but I CAN call the support desk and get someone else to look into the code. I am here to write software to get things done. I am not getting paid to fix someone's operating system malfunctions. I have used *nix enough to know what a pain in the ass it is to get it working, once it's working it is generally rock solid, but the journey there is a painful. It's a whole lot easier to say, install windows, click next.
And your answer is productive? The question is rather simple and straight forward, if you have somehow failed to even realize that, let alone supply ANY sort of answer or PRODUCTIVE response, well, I can't fix you. I can fix a LOT of things, retardation is not one of them (although I have a theory, it involves beating children when they are young).
Well I like your tag, but I would use regex in it instead of XML, but the principle is the same. Anyways...
What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists. Linux was a scaled down version of Unix, it's adding value. It's new, a variation, but different. This is...? What's the point of doing it other than...? What's the fucking point? I can understand if the developers are doing it to expand their skills, shit, even as a pastime, but all I am trying to say is that SURELY they can find a better way to use their time. Considering they are all highly skilled programmers they could use the time even better than planting vegetables by using their skills to better effect. But planting vegetables would make more of an impact on the world than this project.
Hence the "Obscurity" part. I could have SQL injection issues all over, but if no one tries to exploit them then they are not a problem. Until someone does, but that's not the point!
IT people love monoculture. It's easy for them. It's bad for many reasons -- stopping innovation is one of them.
Try working on building management software and interfacing with all the fucking innovation and come back and talk to me. Some standards are a good thing.
I can't explain it because you wouldn't understand. You aren't a producer, but a consumer.
Try me, I write code for a living. I have probably been doing it longer than you have been breathing. If there is a problem with communication here it's your inability to explain, not my inability to understand.
There are server rooms at Hooters!
Definitely going to change if that's the case. Although we would have to BUY hooters, since we own our own server rooms and data centers, I will mention it in the next team meeting, but I think these sort of decisions are above my pay grade.
What's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.
And what's annoying me more, is that we don't actually have hooters here.
I doubt the time of these hobbyists would have saved at least a dozen children
I was being conservative, they probably could have saved a couple thousand each, writing software takes time, lots of time. Time is money and resources etc. if they had just helped out at a soup kitchen or grown vegetables their effort would have had more impact than what they are doing now. But I do see what you are saying, if you don't at least try, you won't achieve anything. Also you won't fail, but that's not the point.
WTF - have you even heard of COBOL? BASIC? Python is not the "easiest language to read out there" far from it. And if your argument is that they are dead languages, well you are fucken dead wrong. They are just OLD, really really OLD and no one teaches them anymore, so if you can code in COBOL you can literally make a million. For complete transparency I CAN code in COBOL, but I refuse to, it's fucking boring, you would have to offer me a lot and a lot and a lot of money to do that shit again. I already earn enough, I am happy where I am.
I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed. Clearly you are not capable of doing so.
No one cares about "servers where you work"
Yeah, but chances are the place where I work is hosting your servers, but since you don't care I will switch them off for you:-)
Jokes aside, what I was trying to ask (and clearly not achieving) is that is there ANY production environment which would allow this operating system to run inside it? I don't know of a single one. I would also like to point out I write code, I don't click next, I know exactly how much time and effort is being spent on this project. Also our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL. We require SLA's etc. and most of all stable software, open source is considered too volatile unless it's backed by big business (and even then the paperwork to justify it is a major pain). But then I work for really real companies, writing software that actually changes the world, not some shit hole company in the ass end of nowhere that has to rely on open source software because you can't afford the license fees. Sometimes, you get what you pay for.
So is hacking, but that doesn't seem to be acting as much of a deterrent since most people are not caught. So the few they do catch are strung up to set an example, but the real problem is that most of these "hackers" are just script kiddies, and have no fucking clue. The serious malware out there is written in assembly, and the coders have decompiled the fucking decompilers and have written their source code in a way that makes the decompilers run around in loops. I mean, that takes some serious fucking hardcore low level system knowledge. These guys could work for MS or Google etc. but they prefer to work for crime syndicates from their mansions.
This is a prime example of someone with too much time on their hands. Why bother building something that is... already there. Especially since they are so far behind they may as well not be in the race. What's the point? If it's to fluff out your C.V. well, keep on then, but otherwise I really think that this is a waste of resources that would be better spent on other open source projects.
build itself from within itself,
Whoop de doo.
So you included the source code to a compiler within the source code to the operating system. But to build the source code I would need an operating system with a compiler. So yet again, what's the point? You could have saved at least a dozen children with the amount of time and effort being wasted to build an operating system no one needs and that no one will use (other then the creators, and then probably only as a second operating system). Who actually uses this stupid fucking thing other than the people coding it? Is it EVER allowed in a production environment, I know for sure it would not be allowed even close to a server where I work.
Security by obscurity, I may not like it, but if no one is digging into your code to find issues, then no issues will be found. Linux is a prime example, no hacker is going to spend time digging into something that still has so little market share that it's not worth the time and effort. When Linux "has it's day" and becomes WAY MORE mainstream we are going to find SOOO many bugs in Linux it's not funny. In a big way Android has changed that, and we are discovering major security issues in Android that it's not even remotely funny (pun intended).
Everything could be made secure. But it isn't and it's not going to happen anytime soon either. Not until people start dropping dead, and by then there will be so many insecure devices that instead of fixing the problem it's cheaper to make a Draconian example of the "hacker". This is already happening, the horse has bolted from the stables, and we CAN'T close the door, so now we crucify the person who finds the horse.
Chinese manufacturers can't ship Play or Google search anyway because they are blocked in China.
But you can just download it anyway so that you can get your phone to start working properly. The point is you HAVE to install it to get your phone working the way you would expect it to.
I agree, forced diversity will only work if all parties in the exchange actually want it, and they rarely do, from both sides. One side has been forced to relocate to find a better life, but they want to maintain their own culture and values, the other side feels they are losing value to another who is trying to change their own culture and values. The result is evident in the conflict happening in the EU today.
No, smarphones should not be handed out like candy to keep kids occupied, try actually being a parent instead of farming off that responsibility to a chunk of silicone. As for the over diagnoses of ADHD, just because a kid in a class room of 30 students has trouble focusing does not mean he has ADHD and needs to be drugged up to the eyeballs. Try looking at changing the environment before drugging the child. Most likely the problem is the teacher, and not the child. I have met millennial's who were proud of the fact that they have never ever read a book from cover to cover. That's fucked up.
Slashdot Mirror
So you are actively contributing to the project?
You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice?
I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.
Just because someone wants to write it does not mean it should be written, this project is a waste of good resources.
Please explain in full sentences, because you keep saying "I WANNA" with no substantiation.
Imagine what these talented developers could have done with their time instead.
You still have not explained anything, so I hereby call your "argument" a childish spat, and therefore not worth consideration.
Grow up a bit child, and then come back and actually have a discussion.
What's the point in watching TV?
Entertainment?
What's the point in reading a book?
Entertainment?
What's the point in doing the crossword or the sudoku in the paper?
Entertainment?
What's the point jogging or running (if you're not going to compete at the Olympics)?
Entertainment or Achievement?
What's the point in reading interesting science articles if your not a researcher in the field?
Entertainment?
What's the point in sitting outside at night and watching the stars (unless of course you’re a paid astronomer)?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going away on holiday / vacation?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going exactly what it is you enjoy doing, if you'll get criticised by others who see no utilitarian value in what you do?
Entertainment - or you are a millenial
And finally, what's the point in helping to develop ReactOS?
Nothing tangible other than entertainment?
So girls just want to have fun?
FFS serving at a soup kitchen would add more value to society, but fuckit, I suppose it's their own time, they are free to do with it as they wish. Just seems a waste of resources.
We are pretty much a MS software stack development house. We may use other programming languages etc. but the operating systems etc. are almost exclusively MS, as are most of the languages. I will bet a beer you have NEVER EVER looked into the *nix source code, so you have no fucking clue what is under the hood either. The difference is that you can look into the code (if you wanted to and could actually understand what was going on), I cannot look into the code (even though I actually want to but also would take time to figure stuff out), but I CAN call the support desk and get someone else to look into the code. I am here to write software to get things done. I am not getting paid to fix someone's operating system malfunctions. I have used *nix enough to know what a pain in the ass it is to get it working, once it's working it is generally rock solid, but the journey there is a painful. It's a whole lot easier to say, install windows, click next.
And your answer is productive? The question is rather simple and straight forward, if you have somehow failed to even realize that, let alone supply ANY sort of answer or PRODUCTIVE response, well, I can't fix you. I can fix a LOT of things, retardation is not one of them (although I have a theory, it involves beating children when they are young).
Thank you, I can see your reasoning and I appreciate the effort you took to explain it.
Well I like your tag, but I would use regex in it instead of XML, but the principle is the same. Anyways...
What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists. Linux was a scaled down version of Unix, it's adding value. It's new, a variation, but different. This is...? What's the point of doing it other than...? What's the fucking point? I can understand if the developers are doing it to expand their skills, shit, even as a pastime, but all I am trying to say is that SURELY they can find a better way to use their time. Considering they are all highly skilled programmers they could use the time even better than planting vegetables by using their skills to better effect. But planting vegetables would make more of an impact on the world than this project.
My bad, we actually do have hooters over here. Just not very many.
Hence the "Obscurity" part. I could have SQL injection issues all over, but if no one tries to exploit them then they are not a problem. Until someone does, but that's not the point!
Try me, I write code for a living. I have probably been doing it longer than you have been breathing. If there is a problem with communication here it's your inability to explain, not my inability to understand.
There are server rooms at Hooters!
Definitely going to change if that's the case. Although we would have to BUY hooters, since we own our own server rooms and data centers, I will mention it in the next team meeting, but I think these sort of decisions are above my pay grade.
What's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.
And what's annoying me more, is that we don't actually have hooters here.
I was being conservative, they probably could have saved a couple thousand each, writing software takes time, lots of time. Time is money and resources etc. if they had just helped out at a soup kitchen or grown vegetables their effort would have had more impact than what they are doing now. But I do see what you are saying, if you don't at least try, you won't achieve anything. Also you won't fail, but that's not the point.
WTF - have you even heard of COBOL? BASIC? Python is not the "easiest language to read out there" far from it. And if your argument is that they are dead languages, well you are fucken dead wrong. They are just OLD, really really OLD and no one teaches them anymore, so if you can code in COBOL you can literally make a million. For complete transparency I CAN code in COBOL, but I refuse to, it's fucking boring, you would have to offer me a lot and a lot and a lot of money to do that shit again. I already earn enough, I am happy where I am.
Yeah, but chances are the place where I work is hosting your servers, but since you don't care I will switch them off for you :-)
Jokes aside, what I was trying to ask (and clearly not achieving) is that is there ANY production environment which would allow this operating system to run inside it? I don't know of a single one. I would also like to point out I write code, I don't click next, I know exactly how much time and effort is being spent on this project. Also our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL. We require SLA's etc. and most of all stable software, open source is considered too volatile unless it's backed by big business (and even then the paperwork to justify it is a major pain). But then I work for really real companies, writing software that actually changes the world, not some shit hole company in the ass end of nowhere that has to rely on open source software because you can't afford the license fees. Sometimes, you get what you pay for.
So is hacking, but that doesn't seem to be acting as much of a deterrent since most people are not caught. So the few they do catch are strung up to set an example, but the real problem is that most of these "hackers" are just script kiddies, and have no fucking clue. The serious malware out there is written in assembly, and the coders have decompiled the fucking decompilers and have written their source code in a way that makes the decompilers run around in loops. I mean, that takes some serious fucking hardcore low level system knowledge. These guys could work for MS or Google etc. but they prefer to work for crime syndicates from their mansions.
Whoop de doo.
So you included the source code to a compiler within the source code to the operating system. But to build the source code I would need an operating system with a compiler. So yet again, what's the point? You could have saved at least a dozen children with the amount of time and effort being wasted to build an operating system no one needs and that no one will use (other then the creators, and then probably only as a second operating system). Who actually uses this stupid fucking thing other than the people coding it? Is it EVER allowed in a production environment, I know for sure it would not be allowed even close to a server where I work.
Security by obscurity, I may not like it, but if no one is digging into your code to find issues, then no issues will be found. Linux is a prime example, no hacker is going to spend time digging into something that still has so little market share that it's not worth the time and effort. When Linux "has it's day" and becomes WAY MORE mainstream we are going to find SOOO many bugs in Linux it's not funny. In a big way Android has changed that, and we are discovering major security issues in Android that it's not even remotely funny (pun intended).
Welcome to IT, a work colleague once said "we can do the impossible, but miracles take a bit longer".
Everything could be made secure. But it isn't and it's not going to happen anytime soon either. Not until people start dropping dead, and by then there will be so many insecure devices that instead of fixing the problem it's cheaper to make a Draconian example of the "hacker". This is already happening, the horse has bolted from the stables, and we CAN'T close the door, so now we crucify the person who finds the horse.
But you can just download it anyway so that you can get your phone to start working properly. The point is you HAVE to install it to get your phone working the way you would expect it to.
Yeah I did, and did reading about the crusades factor in to your reading material? Spreading word by the sword is not only an Islamic strategy.
I agree, forced diversity will only work if all parties in the exchange actually want it, and they rarely do, from both sides. One side has been forced to relocate to find a better life, but they want to maintain their own culture and values, the other side feels they are losing value to another who is trying to change their own culture and values. The result is evident in the conflict happening in the EU today.
Or we could just go back to DOS? Would that be old enough for you?
If you can't move with the times, it's time to get out of the kitchen.
No, smarphones should not be handed out like candy to keep kids occupied, try actually being a parent instead of farming off that responsibility to a chunk of silicone. As for the over diagnoses of ADHD, just because a kid in a class room of 30 students has trouble focusing does not mean he has ADHD and needs to be drugged up to the eyeballs. Try looking at changing the environment before drugging the child. Most likely the problem is the teacher, and not the child. I have met millennial's who were proud of the fact that they have never ever read a book from cover to cover. That's fucked up.