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IoT Security Flaw Leaves 496 Million Devices Vulnerable At Businesses, Report Says (crn.com)

Nearly a half-billion Internet of Things devices are vulnerable to cyberattacks at businesses worldwide because of a 10-year-old security flaw, according to a new report from a security software vendor. From a report: The report was published Friday by Armis, a provider of Internet of Things security software for enterprises that focuses on detecting threats in IoT devices at workplaces. The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company has previously made security disclosures, including the BlueBorne malware attack that impacted 5 billion IoT devices.

108 comments

  1. Just desserts by hyades1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you let your appliances communicate with anybody but you, you deserve what you get.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:Just desserts by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you let your appliances communicate with anybody but you, you deserve what you get.

      If for some incredibly stupid reason you need the company toilets and cameras and other crap connected toa network, build a separate network for them that never connects to teh intertoobz.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re: Just desserts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I laughed, she laughed, the toaster laughed, I shot the toaster; it was a good time. -PCP

    3. Re: Just desserts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You should probably connect the toilet to the tubes unless you want to deal with a very unpleasant mess

    4. Re: Just desserts by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny

      You should probably connect the toilet to the tubes unless you want to deal with a very unpleasant mess

      So your saying your instinks are telling you they could become outstinks?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Just desserts by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      IoT should stand for Intranet of Things. A separate intranet for IoT, with no access to the Internet and very limited access to the LAN (to connect to an IoT hub for instance, or a smart phone). And do not buy devices that “require” internet in order to function.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re: Just desserts by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      But you didn't shoot the camera.

      That was your mistake.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Just desserts by locofungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the most frustrating things about these IOT things is that they won't work properly unless they have an internet connection and are registered.

      I don't actually own any IOT things but kindle - AFAICT you cannot have a 'collection' until it can talk to the internet.

      Kindlefire, connect to a private network with no (non proxy) internet connectivity and it will refuse to automatically use the connection - even if there are no other connections available.

      I'd guess things like nest are the same. The crazy thing is that I do have a way onto my internal network from outside - a VPN - I don't need each and every device trying to find its own way to punch holes through my firewall. I shouldn't have to have firewall rules to catch outgoing traffic and send it to an internal server so devices work. I shouldn't have to have special DNS zones to redirect traffic.

      These devices even try to use their own hardcoded DNS servers and bypass the ones supplied by dhcp/radvd so more firewall rules to send that traffic to the only reachable dns servers.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    8. Re:Just desserts by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      A dedicated firewall box for IoT is a good idea. You can just block everything except the few IP addresses they need to contact. Hard coded DNS can be fixed by simply re-routing those IP addresses to your own server.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re: Just desserts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent reply

    10. Re:Just desserts by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      If you let your appliances communicate with anybody but you, you deserve what you get.

      If for some incredibly stupid reason you need the company toilets and cameras and other crap connected toa network, build a separate network for them that never connects to teh intertoobz.

      Much easier said than done, unless you're a company with the means and desire to roll your own device every single time. Your investors might decide it's stupidity and fire the executives, if you waste your resources here...

      Many (most?) IOT devices require Internets access in order to function. Here's a more practical and common example of iot devices: IP security cameras. Few and far between are the IP cam's you can use without internet connectivity.

      Another example? Streaming video player devices.. guess where they stream content from? Want a thermostat that trends your cooling data, crunches the numbers, and attempts to reduce your power consumption? it's going to send that data off to a server farm for number crunching. There's a long list.

    11. Re:Just desserts by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      But how can I see who's ringing my doorbell from work then? How can I see what's in my fridge when I'm out shopping? How can I turn up the AC when it looks like fluffy is getting a little hot while I'm out getting dinner?

      I can't believe you don't care about these incredibly important use-cases for internet enabled everything!

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    12. Re:Just desserts by houghi · · Score: 1

      My toaster runs Linux, so that one is safe.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    13. Re:Just desserts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup... how did we all manage to live with out the internet?

      Oh wait... we lived just fine and it wasn't all that long ago either.

      How did so many people get so stupid in such a short length of time?

    14. Re:Just desserts by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Many (most?) IOT devices require Internets access in order to function. Here's a more practical and common example of iot devices: IP security cameras. Few and far between are the IP cam's you can use without internet connectivity. Another example? Streaming video player devices.. guess where they stream content from? Want a thermostat that trends your cooling data, crunches the numbers, and attempts to reduce your power consumption? it's going to send that data off to a server farm for number crunching. There's a long list.

      Then you accept that hackers will pwn you and the risk is worth it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. I'd like to say "sue them silly" by Snotnose · · Score: 5, Informative

    But I was president of my HOA for 12 years back when I was much younger and naive. Get 3 bids for something. Toss out the lower one if it's too much lower than the other 2. Make a choice on the other 2.

    Stuff goes wrong, doesn't it always? Sue the contractor's company.

    The contractor's company goes out of business with no assets left, while the contractor has another business he's running under.

    I'm guessing vendors of these IoT PoS run under the same rules. You can sue the fuck out of them, win, and get some dust bunnies and used condoms nobody on the cleaning crew wanted to touch.

    1. Re:I'd like to say "sue them silly" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can sue the fuck out of them, win, and get some dust bunnies

      This is why companies should be required to carry liability insurance, and/or it should be a felony for corporate officers to liquidate a company to hide its assets from lawsuits.

  3. The attack: DNS rebinding by raymorris · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the basic idea of the attack they are talking about.
    An IoT thermostat can be controlled by your smartphone or computer, via a web service it exposes. Your smartphone might send data to a script at http://192.168.1.4/temp.pyc

    An attacker is able to put malicious JavaScript on a web page which changes the temperature. The attack manages to get around the same-origin policy. The bad guy has their web page, titled "NEST Troubleshooting", on nesttb.com. It loads a script from scripts.nesttb.com. Your browser does a DNS request to get the IP of scripts.nedttb.com and it comes back with 77.77.77.77 and a ttl (cache time) of 1 second. The script then calls http://scripts.nesttb.com/temp.... It's been more than 1 second, so the browser does another DNS request for scripts.nesttb.com. The DNS server gives the IP as 192.168.1.34. The attacker can now change your thermostat setting.

    Prevention:
    The device manufacturer should require authentication in order to change the setting. This should involve a TLS certificate for the client, bit at least use a username and password which is generated for each device separately.

    The customer can mitigate the risk by using a local network other than 192.168.1.1/24. Try perhaps 192.168.106.1/24

    The customer also prevent the attack completely by not buying a super expensive toy, and instead buying a normal programmable thermostat.

    1. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by weilawei · · Score: 3

      This is the Slashdot I remember. :)

    2. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

      All that sounds like it relies on an insecure web browser to break out onto your local lan. Doesn't that make it a web browser issue?

      This is like if a dam breaks and floods a village, you blame the homes for not being water tight.

    3. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There are not 496 million NEST devices out there. Not all IoT devices are alike, most are very different from each other, they don't use a common operating system at all. So where did this 496 million number come from?

    4. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      It came from the company who sells services and software to fix your IoT problems.

    5. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      It is easy to be vigilant at first, but when you are faced with a flood of this crap it is often hard for a human to know what to do.

      Synology NAS appliance: do you let it do automatic updates, or block it from the internet completely? The same thing goes for each vendor you use— do they get a black hole, or effectively unrestricted access (since everything is encrypted)?

    6. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you REALLY want to be a rebel & be safe(r), pick a network between 172.16.x.x and 172.31.x.x

      99.994% of people have *no* idea that range of private IP addresses exists. Everyone knows about 192.168.x.x, and almost everyone knows about 10.x.x.x, but I have yet to meet anyone who uses 172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x for their home network.

    7. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Thank you for that.

      I don't understand how DNS rebinding works on a local device. How would the attacker at nesttb.com know the internal IP address of my IoT device? And how did they know I am the one making the DNS request at all since my DNS request really went to my ISP's DNS server, who then made the DNS request on my behalf?

    8. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by llZENll · · Score: 1

      Until the intern at Evil Corp reads your post and uses it is default instructions for their next IoT device...

    9. Re:The attack: DNS rebinding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > How would the attacker at nesttb.com know the internal IP address of my IoT device?

      They don't they would have to use well known IPs for routers etc. like 192.168.0.1

      > And how did they know I am the one making the DNS request

      They could use a unique subdomain for each visit like adschj89asdfh.attacker.com

    10. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by Minupla · · Score: 1

      I do this because no company I've worked for has used that IP block avoiding all sorts of 'fun' NAT issues when I'm VPN'd in from home.

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    11. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by houghi · · Score: 1

      Try http://hackme.houghi.org/ Do a DNS lookup first. It also confuses people. Even plenty of network people need a second look.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    12. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Intern! Stop reading slashdot and get back to work!

      Now,
      Your boss

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    13. Re: The attack: DNS rebinding by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      I use that range for industrial automation. The remote access VPN routers will not connect if the same network address range is used twice along the connection.

      Usually the factories are on the 10.xx network, and you're likely to encounter the 192.xx network anywhere, so it's easy to get locked out of your remote machine if you use the common ranges.

      Many of the (Siemens) Ethernet devices also use that range for the default IP, so it makes remote recovery much easier as well.

  4. a provider of Internet of Things security software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    says these devices have security flaws.

    wait, whut? no fucking way. really?

  5. They won't learn by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Informative
    Olsoc's rules of IOT

    Rule 1. IOT devices are insecure

    Rule 2. In the event someone has a secure IOT device read Rule 1.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      IoT could be made secure. The problem is that security costs time and money, and it ain't something people care or even know about. Especially in devices they don't consider "computers".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everything could be made secure. But it isn't and it's not going to happen anytime soon either. Not until people start dropping dead, and by then there will be so many insecure devices that instead of fixing the problem it's cheaper to make a Draconian example of the "hacker". This is already happening, the horse has bolted from the stables, and we CAN'T close the door, so now we crucify the person who finds the horse.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    3. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because everyone knows as long as you don't find the horse, you can still pretend it's inside the barn.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:They won't learn by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Everything could be made secure. But it isn't and it's not going to happen anytime soon either. Not until people start dropping dead, and by then there will be so many insecure devices that instead of fixing the problem it's cheaper to make a Draconian example of the "hacker". This is already happening, the horse has bolted from the stables, and we CAN'T close the door, so now we crucify the person who finds the horse.

      Well ... to play devil's advocate, stealing horses actually is illegal.

      We don't just shrug and say "oh well, you should thank the horse thieves for testing your security. This should lead to stronger barn doors."

    5. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Security by obscurity, I may not like it, but if no one is digging into your code to find issues, then no issues will be found. Linux is a prime example, no hacker is going to spend time digging into something that still has so little market share that it's not worth the time and effort. When Linux "has it's day" and becomes WAY MORE mainstream we are going to find SOOO many bugs in Linux it's not funny. In a big way Android has changed that, and we are discovering major security issues in Android that it's not even remotely funny (pun intended).

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    6. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      stealing horses actually is illegal

      So is hacking, but that doesn't seem to be acting as much of a deterrent since most people are not caught. So the few they do catch are strung up to set an example, but the real problem is that most of these "hackers" are just script kiddies, and have no fucking clue. The serious malware out there is written in assembly, and the coders have decompiled the fucking decompilers and have written their source code in a way that makes the decompilers run around in loops. I mean, that takes some serious fucking hardcore low level system knowledge. These guys could work for MS or Google etc. but they prefer to work for crime syndicates from their mansions.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    7. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If no one is digging into your code but your market share is big enough, me digging into your code will produce some exploits easily because nobody found them before me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      but your market share is big enough

      Hence the "Obscurity" part. I could have SQL injection issues all over, but if no one tries to exploit them then they are not a problem. Until someone does, but that's not the point!

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    9. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Part of my job is to disassemble code and look for security flaws. It's a pretty expensive way to hunt for security flaws, but when the stakes reach 7 figures, it starts being worth it.

      If the potential revenue (or damage, depending on what side you're sitting on) is big enough, someone will start looking for security flaws even if it means digging through obfuscated, self-modifying assembler code in a custom virtual machine.

      Hell, game crackers do it for free, so...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Hell, game crackers do it for free, so...

      Not just for free, the do it for FUN, I know, because I used to do it.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    11. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I once had a job that was basically reverse engineering well obfuscated software. One of the requirements of the job was also that you didn't have any police record. But ... how do you learn to reverse engineer well obfuscated software, let alone how to use the various tools of the trade?

      "Don't ask - don't tell" got a whole different meaning there...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      As soon as a company knows you can hack things at some point they will ask you to hack something. I once worked for a big bank in my country, and they had a falling out of some sorts with the only guy who knew the admin password for system x. The system belonged to them, so when they asked me to hack it and recover the password I did not see anything wrong with it. I have done a LOT more questionable hacks (for companies) that made me question if I should be doing what I was doing, but most of them were "defensive" hacks, and were never actually used (that I know of at least). I've also reverse engineered stuff just to see how it works, but then who hasn't seen something cool in software and wanted to know how it was done? It's actually scary when you realize how much consumer electronics is built on top of a small CPU running custom firmware, which you can hack. TV's, dishwashers, washing machines, microwaves, usb storage drives, hard drives, fucking light switches, it's nuts, and with IoT gaining momentum it's only going to get worse. My current job is building management software for smart buildings, lots of fun, also lots of frustration, and bring a warm jacket, because you are going to spend time sitting on the floor in a data center with your laptop keeping your genitals warm. I was once called out to a client in the middle of summer (and it gets HOT here) and arrived in a t-shirt and shorts with sandals, only to end up spending most of the day in the data center freezing my balls off.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    13. Re:They won't learn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I shudder at the thought that there is actually a large bank with shoddy enough practices, processes and protocols to let a single guy have the admin password of a critical system.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:They won't learn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      I agree, but I don't know what actually went down in the end. If someone who realizes they are going to get fired logs into the system and changes the admin password just before he is frog marched out the door means they have shoddy processes... yeah, perhaps. Fuck, I work in IT I have lots and lots of admin rights, if I wanted to I could do the exact same thing in the next five minutes to a lot more systems than he did. They placed their trust in someone who failed their trust. I would also like to point out (and something I did not mention) is that the system x was in development, if it was in production there would have been two million piles of change control paperwork. I know the bank, their systems are rock solid, their processes appropriately anal retentive. In IT you give a lot of power to a few key individuals, if one of them turns out to be an ass hat, what can you do? To work at my level you need to get through 2 or 3 interviews, assessments, background checks and security clearances, and since I used to work primarily on the financial side of things there are in depth financial background checks etc. as well. I don't know how it works in other countries, but here if you have a slightly dodgy credit history you are not going to get work at a financial institution, at least not in IT. I only know of one person who worked there with a bad credit rating, and she was given the green light because of politics, someone in the upper echelons wanted a female in our team.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
  6. Buy a new firewall by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Put all the IoT behind a strong new firewall.
    Have a modern OS be the only way back to the internet/cell phone for the IoT.
    Firewalls and OS always stay updated and work on the internet?
    Nothing on the internet can see the IoT. the IoT can only see the OS and firewall.
    The OS takes what the IoT wants to communicate and makes such data secure, sending it in a modern way out to the user.
    The user can interact with their IoT but the internet only detects a firewall.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Buy a new firewall by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What exactly is this magical firewall you speak of? Most are simply stateful and port blocking, which means internally started communication is fine. When the device phones home (in what ever innocuous way, even with a hard-coded NTP request), they have full access. You can’t proxy the https traffic, so you really don’t have any of the easy means of control. You can try a few other tricks— but it gets to diminishing returns quickly.

    2. Re:Buy a new firewall by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Make the OS only see the IoT and the IoT only see the OS. That keeps the IoT away from the internet as a wide open device waiting for any random internet command.
      That keeps the IoT working behind a secure network.
      The OS can then pass on any requested data beyond the modern secure firewall as needed.

      Re 'but it gets to diminishing returns quickly"
      Think of the software sales and support at an OS and app level to secure the IoT in new ways. Upgrades to software networks every year to keep old IoT hardware on the internet.
      New fully supported security apps to secure the IoT apps behind a firewall.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Buy a new firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Haha his "new" fireall will be cloud-native and run an AI block chain.

    4. Re:Buy a new firewall by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The OS takes what the IoT wants to communicate and makes such data secure, sending it in a modern way out to the user.

      I'm not sure this means anything......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re: Buy a new firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And powered by hot grits!

    6. Re:Buy a new firewall by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What exactly is this magical firewall you speak of?

      An ultra secure CISCO one of course!

    7. Re:Buy a new firewall by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Someone should build a Raspberry Pi firewall for IoT devices. It would basically block everything by default, and then have simple check boxes for different IoT devices that open up access to the necessary IPs/domains. Settings contributed by the community, similar to ad-blockers.

      Throw in a bit of rate limiting. Second ethernet port can be a cheap USB thing, doesn't need to be fast. Build in WiFi so it can act as an AP. Could be a popular project, like the PiHole.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Buy a new firewall by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The other way is just to let the IoT device get discovered and used by malware.
      The IoT product is long past getting new support.
      The user still wants to communicate over the internet with their IoT products.
      Consumer AV scans can only do so much to tell the user about their home network and default passwords.
      Time to think about the OS, software and firewall to try and protect wide open IoT expected to face the internet.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  7. This is why I don't trust IoT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work in the microcontroller industry and somehow became the security 'expert' for my group. I don't trust IoT for many reasons, the biggest is that not many people has a clue on how to do security right, and those that do cost an arm and a leg and most manufacturers producing IoT devices can't afford them.

    With various upgrades to my house (mostly solar), I've had to accept some IoT devices. So I've segmented my wireless network. There's an open wifi (secured by a passkey, I still consider this open), and there's a second wifi that needs 802.1X authentication. The IoT devices go to the open wifi, which is on its own subnet and vlan, and only has access through the firewall with QoS tuned down to 1 Mbps. The second wifi has its own vlan, and is routed to the internal wired network. But if I find that's been compromised its easy to shut it down. I have yet to come upon a consumer IoT devices that can work with WPA2-Enterprise & 802.1X, but my sample size is small.

    Of course most people don't run Linux firewalls with 3 Ethernet cards, and level 2 managed switches at home. Prosumer tip: watch the switch manufacturer End-of-Life notices and pick up the switches at fire sale prices as everyone tries to dump their supply, don't buy off of EBay or refurbished, you never know what's one there.

    1. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by ELCouz · · Score: 1

      Why buy a firewall which the supplier has EOLed? Sounds like a good plan to have your first line of defense without updates/support getting p0wn3d.

    2. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with microcontrollers and security is that security consumes a fair lot of processing power if done right. And while this is really no concern these days for a desktop or even a mobile computer (including smartphones), it still is a concern for lower end IoT devices powered by microcontrollers that can barely accomplish what their function is with the computing power they have.

      And try to justify the 2.50 bucks for the extra IC (or the next powerful IC) to implement sensible security. Not to mention the hundreds of hours.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reality the manufactures stamping their brand name on white Box OEM devices, buy the OEM flakey software.
      What they could do is have some BSD auditors go over the code, or hald an internet competition to beef it up - with at least one hacker/pen tester in there. You do NOT have to hire someone - it can be web outsourced with some reward money..

      Bring on a statutory warranty. Cant afford will change to can.

    4. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      OP didn't say buy the firewalls at EoL - just the switches. EoL is not the same as end of support, which mean you get a good few years before they go out of support and patches cease, so you get a decent switch for your home network, rather than your regular cheap SOHO model.

      Switches do generally last forever though, what happens when patches do cease is up to your security risk appetite. Assuming you know what you are doing and have them properly locked down with management IPs firewalled away or disabled, etc., then they're a pretty low security risk, barring some "packet of doom" style exploit.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    5. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Yes, so low risk. For values of low that include near certainty, I guess.

    6. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Prosumer tip: watch the switch manufacturer End-of-Life notices and pick up the switches at fire sale prices as everyone tries to dump their supply

      I hear there's a lot of CISCO gear going cheap.

    7. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by jittles · · Score: 1

      OP didn't say buy the firewalls at EoL - just the switches. EoL is not the same as end of support, which mean you get a good few years before they go out of support and patches cease, so you get a decent switch for your home network, rather than your regular cheap SOHO model. Switches do generally last forever though, what happens when patches do cease is up to your security risk appetite. Assuming you know what you are doing and have them properly locked down with management IPs firewalled away or disabled, etc., then they're a pretty low security risk, barring some "packet of doom" style exploit.

      Do you follow CERT? Cisco has tons of exploits in their gear, including countless backdoor accounts. Some that have been discovered and published on the internet that Cisco hasn't even acknowledged. You can't secure a switch against a known backdoor if the switch can be accessed.

    8. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by jittles · · Score: 1

      The problem with microcontrollers and security is that security consumes a fair lot of processing power if done right. And while this is really no concern these days for a desktop or even a mobile computer (including smartphones), it still is a concern for lower end IoT devices powered by microcontrollers that can barely accomplish what their function is with the computing power they have.

      And try to justify the 2.50 bucks for the extra IC (or the next powerful IC) to implement sensible security. Not to mention the hundreds of hours.

      Why does security have to consume a fair amount of processing power? This all depends on the attack surface of your project, but most of the things that need to be secured ought to be considered and planned for before you even write your first line of code. And checking input shouldn't be that time consuming for a microcontroller. The real costly part of security is the time it takes to properly implement and verify it.

    9. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      Both of which require that the management IP be enabled and accessible, which I specifically covered in the second paragraph. Once you've got it configured, do you *really* need the management IP enabled on a home/SME switch, when then console port will do? Probably not unless you're doing VLAN moves and changes on a regular basis, and if you are doing that then you're more likely to be big enough to justify having a dedicated management LAN with more restrictive access network policies in place. Either way, this is a *switch* we're talking about, so if an attacker is able to leverage an exploit then you've already got bigger problems to worry about, either in the form of an external actor that has already gained access to a LAN the switch is on, or a malicious employee that is trying to gain access to more than they are permitted to.

      If that's not a risk that you have the ability to manage or are comfortable with, then just buy a new EoL switch at knock-down prices just before your current one goes out of support. Depending on the vendor and the level of firesale discounts, it'll probably still work out cheaper than buying brand new and sweating the asset until it goes out of support - and in practice, probably some years beyond that, completely unmanaged security warts and all.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    10. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Security on MCUs isn't actually too hard. I implemented an RSA based system for encrypted GPS logging as a hobby project a while back, it wasn't much work. That was an 8 bit MCU which admittedly had AES acceleration (not uncommon now).

      Thing is most of these devices are actually running some kind of RTOS on a 32 bit ARM, with crypto acceleration to support the WiFi stack. ARM SoCs with WiFi are super cheap now, well under $1 in quantity, e.g. the ESP8266. The manufacturers often offer free modules to handle things like certificate checks and HTTPS.

      The reason this stuff doesn't get used is that most of the developers don't understand it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      don't buy off of EBay or refurbished, you never know what's one there.

      It doesn't matter where you get a router, you need to reflash it when you get it with something known good. In fact, it doesn't matter what it is, if it's reloadable, you need to reload it from known good media when you get it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Why does security have to consume a fair amount of processing power?

      Because it's easier to just ACCEPT all connection attempts instead of piping them through multiple layers of filters. Even the most basic authentication scheme is more complicated and time consuming than allowing total access to everyone. Even if the gadget only connects actively and does not allow others to establish a connection, you have to sanitize input from your peer.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That is the second part of the problem. We're looking at engineers whose experience so far never included security. Someone who designs TV until very recently had no reason to know the first thing about network security. Let alone people who design refrigerators, stoves or washing machines. Suddenly these things "must" connect to the internet. What happens now is that some kind of internet connectivity kit is somehow haphazardly attached to the machine (or to paraphrase Homer Simpson, they take an existing product and put a clock in it), without knowing the first thing about the kit or its security.

      And often not even that security is an issue in the first place.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by jittles · · Score: 1

      Why does security have to consume a fair amount of processing power?

      Because it's easier to just ACCEPT all connection attempts instead of piping them through multiple layers of filters. Even the most basic authentication scheme is more complicated and time consuming than allowing total access to everyone. Even if the gadget only connects actively and does not allow others to establish a connection, you have to sanitize input from your peer.

      But you should always be sanitizing your inputs, no matter where they came from. So the lost processing power SHOULD be zero because you should already be doing that anyway. And most hardware has cryptographic instructions that offload the verification of hashes and signatures so the only wasted processing power there is waiting for the bus to send and receive the request.

    15. Re:This is why I don't trust IoT by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If they DID do it then we wouldn't have the problem we're having. The exact problem is that they're not sanitizing their input.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Suspicious by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    "One service Black Lake provides for customers is an IoT assessment that gives businesses a true look at all the connected devices on their network."

    " The report was published Friday by Armis, a provider of Internet of Things security software for enterprises that focuses on detecting threats in IoT devices at workplaces"

    I understand now.

    1. Re: Suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 more years of easy bidness!

  9. Critical manufacturing IoT devices are even worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As bad as home IoT seems to be, many major business IoT sensors, remote relays, etc don't even use HTTPS so can't do proper authentication. I'm thinking of most devices made by ControlbyWeb which are used in factories around the world and their competitors are just as bad!

  10. Bullshit attack by mveloso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a bullshit attack. If they've already gotten to the embedded web server then they don't need you to change your thermostat.

    1. Re: Bullshit attack by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Why would they need you to change it?

      I don't think you understood what he was talking about ...

  11. Massive device recall : Statutory Recall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I expect devices to be upgradable at best.
    Pull em out and return them on statutory warranty grounds.
    And if the dumb manufacturer built then flawed - wear the cost.

    I know the rich physically unplug hotel tv sets because the crap firmware is done by the lowest bidder, and miles behind open source routers.

    This exploit is a timing attack - kinda novel, and there will be more. Whitelisting IP addresses
    to build a newer list is the way to go. Meanwile burglars and theives can scope your house out, knowing it is safe to rob.

    1. Re:Massive device recall : Statutory Recall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This exploit is a timing attack

      Um, no, it's exploiting gullible browsers to make web requests to IoT devices on the LAN. Segregating your IoT devices to a separate VLAN or changing the factory standard passwords would avoiding the issue for most devices. Cisco, on the other hand, likes to have hard coded credentials so they'll always be vulnerable.

  12. Linked In's been hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got a ransom email telling me my password is XXXXXXXX and I used it to sign up to porn sites, that were hacked and a webcam of me pleasuring myself will be released unless I send money to a bit coin address.

    Nah, I don't have a webcam, nobody signs up for porn accounts, and I don't use messenger, have social network accounts, or webmail, but the password does have my 'tell' in it, I use unique passwords for everything and change them often, I can always spot one of my passwords and the password is real.

    It's for LinkedIn. I HAVE NOT USED LINKED IN FOR 8 YEARS AND 2 COMPUTERS AGO. So they did not obtain it from a local keylogger. LinkedIn must have been hacked.

    So Linkedin *itself* has been hacked and someone is using their passwords for an email scam.

    "Let me tell you, I actually setup a malware on the X vids (sex sites) website and you know what, you visited this web site to have fun (you know what I mean). When you were watching videos, your web browser initiated operating as a RDP having a key logger which gave me accessibility to your display as well as cam. Just after that, my software program obtained all of your contacts from your Messenger, social networks, as well as emailaccount. And then I made a video. First part shows the video you were watching (you've got a nice taste ; )), and second part shows the view of your web cam, yeah it is u. "

    You will have a pair of possibilities. We should explore these types of options in particulars:

    1st choice is to dismiss this email. As a consequence, I most certainly will send your recorded material to every bit of your contacts and consider regarding the shame you can get. Not to forget should you be in a relationship, exactly how it can affect?

    2nd choice will be to give me $1000. Let us name it as a donation. Then, I will asap remove your video footage. You could keep on going everyday life like this never happened and you will never hear back again from me.

    You'll make the payment through Bitcoin (if you don't know this, search "how to buy bitcoin" in Google).

    BTC Address: 1LLXM3HmVgp5tDzFBZeTUt3CwPziGezmdS
    [case-sensitive copy & paste it]

    1. Re: Linked In's been hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got something like that, written letter through the USPS. The postal inspector said it wasn't mail fraud because the payment was not via USPS.

      Isn't it possible to trace the Bitcoin wallet address? Difficult but not impossible.

    2. Re:Linked In's been hacked by ewhac · · Score: 2

      It's for LinkedIn. I HAVE NOT USED LINKED IN FOR 8 YEARS AND 2 COMPUTERS AGO. So they did not obtain it from a local keylogger. LinkedIn must have been hacked.

      Uh, yeah, it was. Big news at the time. This was a short while before they were acquired by Microsoft.

  13. Automatic expiration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All IOT devices should automatically cease functioning after 1 year without a firmware update. It should be the default deadpans switch to assume they are security compromised unless someone actively is maintained by them. Routers could be set up so protocol identities are increments every year and anything with an out of date protocol could be restricted in what it can do on the network.

    1. Re:Automatic expiration by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      All IOT devices should automatically cease functioning after 1 year without a firmware update. It should be the default deadpans switch to assume they are security compromised unless someone actively is maintained by them. Routers could be set up so protocol identities are increments every year and anything with an out of date protocol could be restricted in what it can do on the network.

      Nobody would buy IOT devices that had to be replaced every year. Most manufacturers only offer firmware updates for a short period of time. It would be the end of IOT for anyone except enterprises that could afford to roll and maintain their own.

    2. Re:Automatic expiration by mea2214 · · Score: 1

      All IOT devices should automatically cease functioning after 1 year without a firmware update.

      You are assuming your vision of a security profile onto everyone. If your device isn't on the Intertubes there is nothing to worry about with security. Firmware updates should always follow if it ain't broke don't fix it -- not break it if you don't fix it.

  14. I'm suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    USPS?

    All mail is photographed when sent, so they would trace it. This is a bulk scam, millions of these are emailed out, none are personalized beyond LinkedIn information, so this is scatter gun mail. And it certainly is mail fraud if it ever was sent USPS.

    It would cost a lot of money to send millions of these out via USPS.

    Bulk mail rates would not be possible, and anyone bringing in thousands of letters to be mailed would be flagged immediately.

    So I am suspicious of your claim. Can you back it up?

  15. Re:a provider of Internet of Things security softw by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    It's almost like they want to claim that companies who have no experience with networked devices because so far their main experience lies in a totally different segment of electronics where the "networked" part is only tacked on as an afterthought don't spend time and resources making a feature secure they mainly have as a sales gimmick.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  16. or use a decent router by fuzzyf · · Score: 2

    This can also be prevented by simply using a decent router that doesn't allow local IP replies from a public DNS.
    Load up pfsense and you are protected from this. Even with default settings.

  17. Re: Trump flaw leaves US at risk... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone else remember when it was the Right that was this raving mad? "Obama is treasonous, he sides with putin and betrays america, bla bla bla."

    Did you have a stroke in 2015, and lose all your memory?

  18. Not tell embedded server. Their own server by raymorris · · Score: 1

    The attack is carried out from their own web server.
    They set up nest-troubleshooting.com on their own hosting account. A script on nest-troubleshooting.com accesses scripts.nest-troubleshooting.com.

    scripts.nest-troubleshooting.com (sometimes) has the IP address 192.168.1.4, which is the same IP as your thermostat.

  19. Good, but doesn't solve this issue by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Nothing on the internet can see the IoT. the IoT can only see the OS and firewall.

    That's all good, but doesn't solve this issue. This vulnerability requires that:

    Your computer or phone can see the web.
    Your computer or phone can see the IoT.

  20. Defaults and enumeration by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Most home / small office routers by default assign themselves 192.168.1.1 and hand out IPv4 IPs starting at 192.168.1.2, handing them out in order. Therefore pretty . Uch every device in everyone's house will have one of 11 IPs 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.12. The attacker simply tries each in turn.

    This attack can't be done with IPv6. You don't have everyone using the same default IPs with IPv6, and IPs aren't normally assigned in order.

    1. Re:Defaults and enumeration by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      In this example, the attack requires knowing the IP address of the camera, not the router. Although to your point, they could probably get it right in 256 guesses.

  21. Maintainence contract by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Precisely wrong. First you are right that no one would buy an nonmaintaiable IOT device but they would buy ones that the manufacturers promised to keep updated. You could do that now of course but people complain about the Apple tax or similar. But Apple routers and Apple TV are trivial to update because they do it via the attached computer. So do things like chrome computers and fire sticks.

    Or you could contract with a third party if you dare.

    The key point is that once someone is paying for it then it gets done.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  22. The real security threat is marketing hyperbole by JoePete · · Score: 1

    If you read the story it should become evident that this is is just masked marketing for one of Armis' products. Essentially, the accusation is that if you have a device that is accessible by a Web interface on your computer, and someone gets access to your computer/browser, well lo and behold, they can get access to the devices. Newsflash: billions of cars are vulnerable to attack -- if someone steals your keys. This is just marketing to sell people crap to make up for the crap (IoT) they bought without understanding what it did or how to secure it.

  23. Darn few people have 255 devices by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Generally, the first device connected is assigned .2, the next .3, etc. So it would be rare to find any device in a house with an IP higher than about .12

  24. IDIOT == Insecurely Designed Internet Of Things by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

    A much more appropriate acronym.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user