| I just like BeOS because it puts the lie to Linus's uninformed | and defamatory ranting about microkernels.
Not exactly. BeOS is not a microkernel. It's a very modular system, but drivers and kernel modules share the same address space, permissions, etc with the main kernel.
| You're missing the point. The neato query and node | monitoring stuff comes from the filesystem, not the tracker. | Doing such things with the ext2 filesystem would be less | than straightforward.
That was, I believe, exactly my point. The GUI side of tracker is very nice, but the stuff that makes it very snappy and responsive is the filesystem support. After working on BeOS for a few years, I massively miss node monitoring in UNIX:-)
You'll note that there's a.tgz with the filesystem image and README for linux. Conveniently this image will also act as an install cdrom, should you write it to a CDR using your favorite cd burning tool (I'd suggest CD Burner in BeOS 5, but that does present a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem).
The BeOS provides a number of "supposedly easy" APIs (InterfaceKit, ApplicationKit, StorageKit, etc). The docs are available online. Other useful information is in the developer library.
Enjoy.
Brian
Re:source to the GNU utilities (and other stuff)
on
Scott Hacker Responds
·
· Score: 1
- Sample code is ALWAYS under this kind of - license. What's your point?
That the "samples" include full drivers that ship with the system and such, not just example snippets. I expect future releases to have more driver sources (where not restricted by NDA or license issues).
*shrug*
--Brian
Re:BeOS Drivers easier to develop than Linux drive
on
Scott Hacker Responds
·
· Score: 1
As someone who develops BeOS device drivers (and bus managers and other kernel modules) on a day to day basis, I'd have to say I find the driver environment pretty slick. Being able to install custom kernel debugger commands, reload a driver by copying a new binary to the right place, go through many iterations without rebooting, etc makes me very happy.
--Brian
Re:source to the GNU utilities (and other stuff)
on
Scott Hacker Responds
·
· Score: 1
Umm, that isn't a priveledge they bestow upon their users; they are required to include the source of the 250+ GNU command-line utilities that they bundle with Be
However, there's no requirement to release sample drivers, app bits, etc, under an "open" license. The kernel sources may not be available, but you can develop a lot of stuff without them -- considering that ALL drivers are loaded dynamically. A lot of effort is taken to insure that the information needed is available. For interested parties, a series of articles about kernel programming on BeOS is underway:
You can find fully functional source to the shipping Symbios and Buslogic SCSI drivers, the scsi_raw device, PCI NE2K, Sonic Vibes, lots of neat little programs, etc at ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/samples. Sure Linux has a lot of that stuff already, but if you want to know how drivers work on BeOS, there you go. And if you read the LICENSE file you'll find that it's a familiar sort of document:
---------------------- Be Sample Code License ----------------------
Copyright 1991-1999, Be Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer.
2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
Take a look at/boot/optional/sample-code on a R4.5 install or ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/samples. We're pretty good about releasing driver sources where we can. You'll note that the sample code is under a BSD-like license. Hardware support is mostly about drivers and we'll never refuse to answer questions from people who are serious about doing driver development:-)
-- Brian, who hopes to see even more driver sources shipping with the system in the future
That's the total fallback driver. However, in R4.5 if your card is VESA 2.0 compliant the bootloader can preset a linear video mode (all the way up to 1600x1200x32, depending on the card) and you don't get the performance hit. No hardware cursor or accelerated blits, but definately nicer than grayscale.
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| I just like BeOS because it puts the lie to Linus's uninformed
| and defamatory ranting about microkernels.
Not exactly. BeOS is not a microkernel. It's a very modular
system, but drivers and kernel modules share the same address
space, permissions, etc with the main kernel.
Brian
| You're missing the point. The neato query and node
:-)
| monitoring stuff comes from the filesystem, not the tracker.
| Doing such things with the ext2 filesystem would be less
| than straightforward.
That was, I believe, exactly my point. The GUI side of tracker
is very nice, but the stuff that makes it very snappy and
responsive is the filesystem support. After working on BeOS
for a few years, I massively miss node monitoring in UNIX
Brian
I'm not sure which license you're reading, but if you look
at http://opentracker.org/license.html, you'll note it's
pretty open-ended.
The app_server side isn't half as hard as the attribute,
query, and node monitoring stuff that really makes the
Tracker fly.
Brian
You'll note that there's a .tgz with the filesystem image
and README for linux. Conveniently this image will also
act as an install cdrom, should you write it to a CDR using
your favorite cd burning tool (I'd suggest CD Burner in
BeOS 5, but that does present a bit of a chicken-and-egg
problem).
-- Brian
I don't see it ever happening. Can't say I've never
been wrong, but this is pretty much a no-brainer. It
makes no sense to make it difficult to develop apps
for the platform. I do happen to work for them, so
I may be a bit biased. I may also be right. *shrug*
--Brian
The BeOS provides a number of "supposedly easy" APIs (InterfaceKit, ApplicationKit, StorageKit, etc). The docs are available online. Other useful information is in the developer library.
Enjoy.
Brian
- Sample code is ALWAYS under this kind of
- license. What's your point?
That the "samples" include full drivers that
ship with the system and such, not just
example snippets. I expect future releases
to have more driver sources (where not restricted
by NDA or license issues).
*shrug*
--Brian
As someone who develops BeOS device drivers
(and bus managers and other kernel modules)
on a day to day basis, I'd have to say I find
the driver environment pretty slick. Being
able to install custom kernel debugger commands,
reload a driver by copying a new binary to the
right place, go through many iterations without
rebooting, etc makes me very happy.
--Brian
- Overview
- Device Drivers
- Modules
- Bus Managers
- ...
You can find fully functional source to the shipping Symbios and Buslogic SCSI drivers, the scsi_raw device, PCI NE2K, Sonic Vibes, lots of neat little programs, etc at ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/samples. Sure Linux has a lot of that stuff already, but if you want to know how drivers work on BeOS, there you go. And if you read the LICENSE file you'll find that it's a familiar sort of document:----------------------
Be Sample Code License
----------------------
Copyright 1991-1999, Be Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer.
2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
Take a look at /boot/optional/sample-code on a :-)
R4.5 install or ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/samples.
We're pretty good about releasing driver sources
where we can. You'll note that the sample code
is under a BSD-like license. Hardware support
is mostly about drivers and we'll never refuse
to answer questions from people who are serious
about doing driver development
-- Brian, who hopes to see even more driver sources shipping with the system in the future
That's the total fallback driver. However, in
R4.5 if your card is VESA 2.0 compliant the
bootloader can preset a linear video mode
(all the way up to 1600x1200x32, depending on
the card) and you don't get the performance hit.
No hardware cursor or accelerated blits, but
definately nicer than grayscale.
-- Brian
However, fallback VESA support is in 4.5, so you
should be able to get better than 640x480xGray
support if the FireGL is VESA 2.0 compliant.
Check out the boot options (hit space at the
start of the boot splash screen).
-- Brian
Those of us working on the batmobile found some good tidbits there as well...