I doubt we can be absolutists about this. Definitely, some things a command-line is easier for.
1. For instance, navigating into directories with too many files but whose filenames one remembers. For instance:
cd\progra~1\wiz
is faster than pressing Windows-E to pull up the explorer (or clicking on My Computer), selecting Drive C, selecting My Programs, scrolling through a VERY long list of directories, finding wiz, clicking on it. Of course, I could create a short-cut on my desktop, but of course I could likewise have a batch file called wiz.bat that does it, too.
2. If one has file extension viewing disabled, then of course the command-line is indispensable for some file-handling things.
3. Wildcards give one a freedom in selecting files that one just doesn't get in Windows, at least not as far as I remember. So how do I delete all the.aso (intermediate Z80 assembler files generated by my peephole optimizer in Sharp 7xx development work) files in a directory? Go to detailed view, sort by file type, select a portion by dragging, and then drag into the trashcan? Or just do: del *.aso. Even if Windows has a way of doing this, wildcard renames aren't available, e.g., ren *.doc *.bak. This isn't, of course, an innate problem of GUIs. Xtree did fine in a text-based "G"UI. And I know I can use Windows find file, but that still won't do the wildcard renames.
4. On the other hand, there is nothing like a GUI for picking out fifteen files or directories out of a hundred, for deletion or copying, when the files have nothing in common in their names, and their names are long. Of course, one can always do an interactive delete (rm -i, assuming one has an rm utility installed), but even that is slower (pressing N eighty-five times...) A GUI is nice for selecting commonly-used directories to which one has shortcuts on one's desktop. Etc.
5. And, although this may be simple laziness, I've never learned how to use GUI-based project management stuff, other than Turbo C. Using make is pretty intuitive, and highly flexible for doing things like compiling one program natively, running it natively to generate a data table #include'd in another program, and then cross-compiling the latter program for a PDA, including running some custom post-processing to generate an uploadable file. I suppose there might be some way to customize something like Visual Studio to do something of this sort, but I've never learned how...
For instance, in MD and PA, you need to periodically (quarterly in MD, monthly in PA) send in use taxes (equal in percentage to sales tax) for any out-of-state purchases, whether the purchases are over the phone, by mail catalog, Internet or I think even when physically visiting another state and bringing the goods back (but in this last case, one can subtract the sales tax one paid in the other state from what is owing, and presumably, one can seek a refund from the other state if one paid a higher rate there; so, if a MD resident buys goods in VA, then since the VA sales tax is 0.5% lower than the MD one, the MD resident owes his state 0.5% of the purchase price).
The "ban" on Internet taxes only meant that the states couldn't ENFORCE this in the case of Internet sales, so that this was an honor-system tax: i.e., a tax on the honest.
1. In electrons in the CRT.
2. In the excited phosphorescent atoms on the inner surface of the CRT.
3. In the atoms of the glass of the CRT excited by the passage of photons through it.
4. In the photons mentioned above.
5. In the excited atoms in the lens and in the photons coming out of the lens if they are different. (Don't know.)
6. In the complicated light-sensitive chemicals of the eye.
7. In the optical nerve.
8. In the brain.
One can probably still find all the software one needs free on simtel20's DOS section. Most of it wil run on an 8088, and certainly on a 286. And, yes, there is plenty of good stuff one can do on a 286. E.g., the best technical typesetting system, namely TeX, ran just fine on an 8 MHz 8086 (I know because I wrote my thesis on one) and it's freely available. And if all one wants is email, one can use a DOS-based TCP/IP stack and telnet. Or just a terminal emulator and a shell account (I'm sending this email from a 9.5 MHz Z80 machine with 128K SRAM).
Some of the embedded / small-device people still write small, efficient code. I myself have done a fair bit of programming for a Sharp OZ-7xx organizer, where there's only 32k sram available for programs (though there's plenty of flash) and where the cpu is a 9.5MHz Z80. (I'm typing this message on a terminal emulator running on it that runs in about 20K, though that's nothing to brag about, since it could have been done in 10k I'm sure if I coded everything in assembly instead of using some C.) Alex
Seriously, the comment about not being able to write a tcp/ip stack in almost 20k puzzled me. I know there is a full telnet / tcp/ip / ppp stack for CPC (running some form of CP/M on a Z80) in 32k. If one had a simple wap parser and changed ppp to slip and optimized, I bet one could make it go in under 20k, though I don't know what the Vic20's processor is like. People have written tcp/ip stacks in under 2k for Pic processors. I myself am sending this email via a terminal emulator (hooked up to a shell account) I wrote for a Sharp OZ-730 (Z80 at 9.5MHz, 128K SRAM, but only 32K freely available for user programs as Sharp won't release info on what parts of SRAM are free and what are reserved by the OS--we're having to reverse engineer everything: see www.ozdev.com) and I eventually hope to port the CPC's tcp/ip stack to it. True, I have 12k more available to me than the vic20 people, and a faster processor, but even so it shouldn't be so hard. Alex
Slashdot Mirror
I doubt we can be absolutists about this. Definitely, some things a command-line is easier for.
.aso (intermediate Z80 assembler files generated by my peephole optimizer in Sharp 7xx development work) files in a directory? Go to detailed view, sort by file type, select a portion by dragging, and then drag into the trashcan? Or just do: del *.aso. Even if Windows has a way of doing this, wildcard renames aren't available, e.g., ren *.doc *.bak. This isn't, of course, an innate problem of GUIs. Xtree did fine in a text-based "G"UI. And I know I can use Windows find file, but that still won't do the wildcard renames.
1. For instance, navigating into directories with too many files but whose filenames one remembers. For instance:
cd\progra~1\wiz
is faster than pressing Windows-E to pull up the explorer (or clicking on My Computer), selecting Drive C, selecting My Programs, scrolling through a VERY long list of directories, finding wiz, clicking on it. Of course, I could create a short-cut on my desktop, but of course I could likewise have a batch file called wiz.bat that does it, too.
2. If one has file extension viewing disabled, then of course the command-line is indispensable for some file-handling things.
3. Wildcards give one a freedom in selecting files that one just doesn't get in Windows, at least not as far as I remember. So how do I delete all the
4. On the other hand, there is nothing like a GUI for picking out fifteen files or directories out of a hundred, for deletion or copying, when the files have nothing in common in their names, and their names are long. Of course, one can always do an interactive delete (rm -i, assuming one has an rm utility installed), but even that is slower (pressing N eighty-five times...) A GUI is nice for selecting commonly-used directories to which one has shortcuts on one's desktop. Etc.
5. And, although this may be simple laziness, I've never learned how to use GUI-based project management stuff, other than Turbo C. Using make is pretty intuitive, and highly flexible for doing things like compiling one program natively, running it natively to generate a data table #include'd in another program, and then cross-compiling the latter program for a PDA, including running some custom post-processing to generate an uploadable file. I suppose there might be some way to customize something like Visual Studio to do something of this sort, but I've never learned how...
ARP
Aren't you legally required to pay the difference in the taxes to the state of MA when you go for out-of-state shopping trips? Here in MD you have to.
For instance, in MD and PA, you need to periodically (quarterly in MD, monthly in PA) send in use taxes (equal in percentage to sales tax) for any out-of-state purchases, whether the purchases are over the phone, by mail catalog, Internet or I think even when physically visiting another state and bringing the goods back (but in this last case, one can subtract the sales tax one paid in the other state from what is owing, and presumably, one can seek a refund from the other state if one paid a higher rate there; so, if a MD resident buys goods in VA, then since the VA sales tax is 0.5% lower than the MD one, the MD resident owes his state 0.5% of the purchase price).
The "ban" on Internet taxes only meant that the states couldn't ENFORCE this in the case of Internet sales, so that this was an honor-system tax: i.e., a tax on the honest.
ARP
Actually, quite a number of copies get created.
1. In electrons in the CRT.
2. In the excited phosphorescent atoms on the inner surface of the CRT.
3. In the atoms of the glass of the CRT excited by the passage of photons through it.
4. In the photons mentioned above.
5. In the excited atoms in the lens and in the photons coming out of the lens if they are different. (Don't know.)
6. In the complicated light-sensitive chemicals of the eye.
7. In the optical nerve.
8. In the brain.
Alex
There are other sites with the instructions that haven't been slashdotted. See: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg. tcl?msg_id=0038A5
If that doesn't survive, get it from the google cache.
ARP
What about just using a large flashdrive (there are ide and scsi) ones? That'll take care of half of the noise issue. Arp
One can probably still find all the software one needs free on simtel20's DOS section. Most of it wil run on an 8088, and certainly on a 286. And, yes, there is plenty of good stuff one can do on a 286. E.g., the best technical typesetting system, namely TeX, ran just fine on an 8 MHz 8086 (I know because I wrote my thesis on one) and it's freely available. And if all one wants is email, one can use a DOS-based TCP/IP stack and telnet. Or just a terminal emulator and a shell account (I'm sending this email from a 9.5 MHz Z80 machine with 128K SRAM).
Some of the embedded / small-device people still write small, efficient code. I myself have done a fair bit of programming for a Sharp OZ-7xx organizer, where there's only 32k sram available for programs (though there's plenty of flash) and where the cpu is a 9.5MHz Z80. (I'm typing this message on a terminal emulator running on it that runs in about 20K, though that's nothing to brag about, since it could have been done in 10k I'm sure if I coded everything in assembly instead of using some C.) Alex
Seriously, the comment about not being able to write a tcp/ip stack in almost 20k puzzled me. I know there is a full telnet / tcp/ip / ppp stack for CPC (running some form of CP/M on a Z80) in 32k. If one had a simple wap parser and changed ppp to slip and optimized, I bet one could make it go in under 20k, though I don't know what the Vic20's processor is like. People have written tcp/ip stacks in under 2k for Pic processors. I myself am sending this email via a terminal emulator (hooked up to a shell account) I wrote for a Sharp OZ-730 (Z80 at 9.5MHz, 128K SRAM, but only 32K freely available for user programs as Sharp won't release info on what parts of SRAM are free and what are reserved by the OS--we're having to reverse engineer everything: see www.ozdev.com) and I eventually hope to port the CPC's tcp/ip stack to it. True, I have 12k more available to me than the vic20 people, and a faster processor, but even so it shouldn't be so hard. Alex