Wow, first time I log into/. for a few months and all holy hell is breaking loose. Sad to see the other Dice falling after seeing the horrible mobile site design ethic get rolled into the redesign idea.
Add me to the chorus and mob that leaves the day that classic gets shut off. Classic is and has been broken for a long time now and may be crap, but the beta is just crap with the oxidation layer spray painted with generic febreeze. Why in the hell would Dice want to make it look like a WordPress malware landing page?
See you all in a week to see the flaming Ukrainian square here when the tire fires have been extinguished...
Is it true that the whims and changes to the specifications up until late September have been a major impediment?
Seems like it was a nightmare from the start. That you guys even got anything live and semi functioning is amazing and commendable. People will complain, bitch and whine while adding heaps of political tribalism, but know that some of us understand the constraints and thank you for the hard work dealing with the beasts of burden.
Congratulations on it not being completely unusable and able to start the real hard work of a large and organic site.
Good luck to you guys. All my empathy and none of my envy to ya.
The ultimate, most painful, kind of meaninglessness comes from not those who are weary of pain but those that are weary of pleasure. The deeper meaning of human connection transcends desperately trying to evoke another secretion in the brain. If you can't love someone for their own sake...
Wow. People will never see this because of the 0 AC, or laugh because it is pretty deep and they don't get your point, but I personally thank you for this. I know people suffering from exactly what you point out and worry about them all the time. Well done.
Exactly! It isn't like all the crack users died out and no more were made in nature. Hell, Nicole Kidman even married a former crack addict. The current Krokodil users won't just die in 3 years and the problem goes away. If it is cheaper and more addictive than heroin its use will become more widespread and destructive. Everyone has the "it won't happen to me" syndrome when they will first try it when they can't get their normal fix, then hop on the krokodil hamster wheel to rotten bits.
To think it's a phase or scourge that will take care of that segment of drug addiction? Might as well pray to Jesus to give you a pretty pony in 3 years, cuz you aren't going to get either outcome you are seeking.
This is the best drug deterrent and way to get rid of some losers? Bullshit. I can see a virulent and nasty antibiotic resistant TB coming out of this situation soon.
Lot of great AC posts sitting at 0 in this thread, mods.
This whole conversation has been one of the better ones on Slashdot recently, in my own biased memory. My faith in Slashdot has been restored to go along with the aggravation everyone always has with/. Learned and realized quite a few new things just by paying attention to this thread. So I agree with the notion "Slashdot is in no way pretty, but just take a look at the other guys."
America has quickly become like Germany in regards to small brewers with incredible brews only available at a local scale. I agree that the joke will apply for a long time and will always be funny, but it is completely untrue now.
And the company that bought all of our prohibition era mistake breweries resides on your own border. You can blame the Netherlands now, like I do.
Now the parts of our culture that still buys the InBev crap because that is all they know about slightly beer flavored water, you are still correct. I still feel that shame for them too.
Thanks for that info! I was wondering what a potato could add other than yeast food and flavorlessness, but I also thought that about the sugar beet wine that ended up tasting like a good vermouth. My thoughts were going to the colored potatoes and such, so you are right about the desire to experiment.
Banana wines are one of my absolute favorites and is quickly becoming a standard in my pipeline. Tokay yeast is perfect for it. If you've been out of the scene for awhile you may be interested that people are getting away from using golden raisins for body and using welch's white grape juice concentrate instead. Even Jack Keller has largely moved away from golden rasins in the last few years to concentrate to take the obvious raisin character they add along with the body they impart.
Good luck with the banana, you won't be disappointed!
You are spot on and I came to that conclusion above and below. The Krokodil problem is one of information and tools being restricted while the precursors are not. Absolutely agree.
Prohibition and lack of realistic rehabilitation/interventions is the clear problem in this worst case scenario. One of the rare cases where it appears to be a better solution to have their low levels of heroin abuse from before than a walking dead problem.
What kinds of opportunistic disease rise up out a segment of the population that is literally rotting to death? What happens when these shitty methods/recipes that are cheap hit the drug users of China and India? Nightmare scenarios.
Isn't it grand, that a figure from history went around finding plots of land that were going to be future settlements to plant apple trees for hard cider production, is one of the US' children's most known citizens?
John Chapman didn't even care what the apple varieties were. Just apple trees from seed which mostly produced wildly variable size and quality. All for cider. Chapman was a shrewd business wanderer who became immortal in story. Fascinating.
Because there isn't a finite number of users who will just die out and then the problem goes away.
Not to mention that at a current estimated user base of 1,000,000 million users will impact whatever healthcare system they have in Russia negatively. What about all the opportunistic diseases that happens when you have a large base of severely compromised immune systems?
Not a simple case of let the druggies kill themselves and leave the gene pool. Not even close.
Apologies for the out of nowhere Cruz joke. Tuesday's possible train wreck has my inner political sportscaster drunk and mouthing off to random people in the bleachers on the way to his seat. Please disregard.
"Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people."
"Prohibition did briefly pay some public health dividends. The death rate from alcoholism was cut by 80 percent by 1921 from pre-war levels, while alcohol-related crime dropped markedly. Nevertheless, seven years after Prohibition went into effect, the total deaths from adulterated liquor reached approximately 50,000, and there were many more cases of blindness and paralysis. According to one story, a potential buyer who sent a liquor sample to a laboratory for analysis was shocked when a chemist replied: "Your horse has diabetes." "
"Even today, debate about the impact of Prohibition rages. Critics argue that the amendment failed to eliminate drinking, made drinking more popular among the young, spawned organized crime and disrespect for the law, encouraged solitary drinking, and led beer drinkers to hard liquor and cocktails. One wit joked that "Prohibition succeeded in replacing good beer with bad gin." The lesson these critics derive: it is counterproductive to try to legislate morality. "
So in regards to Krokodil:
freely available precursors that have legitimate uses + clampdown on information to iterate the impurities/efficiencies out of methods and tools + belief that addiction is lack of morality and willpower = actual, not a joke, they were fiction and now they are here "ZOMBIES" (minus the "crossed over the actual deadline" of the fictional version.)
Morality or Zombies, Morality or Zombies..... Hmmmmm. What's that Senator Cruz? You said you enjoyed that show on AMC? Well shut things down and get up there and talk it out, son!!!
Yeah. So I see this is still an information and tools problem. Your method for an all grain brew is off by quite a few hours and most likely you just made bottle bombs. That 2 week wait might save you from the bottle bombs, but I still ain't going near those damn things until I chuck a few quarters at them from across the room with safety glasses on. I'll gladly watch you open one up though to see it self empty!
Now I understand how Krokodil is made and why. Not enough people who are passionate/artistic about their desomorphine and its quality like homebrewers are with their brews.
Take away the assumption of Marinal vs Home Grown and you'd be right.
Back to alcohol though, I would just advise to find better Homebrewers. We are pretty common now. Three words will help out your shitty homebrew analogy friend, should he exist:
Homebrewtalk forums and Star-San.
If these people are falling apart because of shitty methods, then if they just have to fucking have the desomorphine, then better the tools and methods. I don't condone a MAKErs movement for desomorphine, but I don't see zombies as the better option.
Your analogy to bathtub gin is spot on, then. Only the people who don't know someone skilled in the art and tools of making desomorphine the correct way will become zombies.
So that is the answer then, as much as I would never do it. Someone create a Russian/Serbian forum that has the correct methods/recipes that people iterate on, with a store link to the correct tools and ingredients. The deso fools with shitty methods will die off in three years, (given the occasional bathtub deso maker who kills himself, friends and customers), and those people who read the forums and buy from the store will end up managing like a GP with an Oxy habit.
I'll state it again, that's very far from an ideal world, but in this one we have zombies. Mix in bath salts like someone will soon, and you get the rage virus brought to life.
And then everybody will have to live life a little faster on the run.
And your tiny little libertarian would be right. Hardcore addicts of heroin try to use it as a stopgap from what I've reading. I'd link a bunch of citations, but they are easily googled and found. I'm full up on the horror of it for one day to even google any more Krokodil links.
Apologies if I sounded counter to your point. But that is a weird debate to have in the short term:
Prescriptions for codeine seem more feasible in the very near term than allowing heroin in that same span of time. On the other hand, OxyContin is prescription and millions of people are addicted to that. Rich people's drugs versus poor people's drugs. Get's sticky pretty quickly.
And sticky is what these people are becoming now. So as someone with a bit of libertarianism mixed in with my shotgun democrat leanings, I always come back to better education. At least the Oxyfools don't become a ramp down the living dead inside of three years. So prescriptions for codeine and ramp up methadone production and availability may work in the near term for Eurasia.
Having the living dead roaming there is just going to make all the khat chewers around the world wonder what the hell is happening to the world.
So yeah, again, your tiny libertarian is right while my tiny relativist went to go pour some homebrew while he ponders the fucked uppedness of the walking dead with bits falling off. Tough one. Russia better take some kind of action though, since taking none is making the problem worse in the short term.
Because it becomes a passion after you've made good batches of wine from things other than grapes, beer from the base grains you've crushed yourself to get the hulls to slip off without too much tear, spirits out of left field with essences of lavender you've grown yourself.
Say what you will about just buying it, but some of us have gotten a mind virus that wants to start slapping bud lights out of people's hands.
Ciders are what kept the founding fathers alive, not to mention the rest of chimpdom for the majority of written history. Prohibiton's last laugh was that its effects were felt long after its repeal.
Pruno is what you make on the heat register. Glory is what you make in the carboy.
After you've done that a few times, there just is no going back.
This one is full of so much horror that it would be amazing if it didn't make political lines irrelevant. So of course I am preparing myself to be amazed.
Estimated 1,000,000 of the living dead, I mean users, in Russia.
Cheap codeine manufacturers making record profits. (Sigh. They just knocked on the door and gave me back my cynic's badge.)
Slashdot Mirror
Wow, first time I log into /. for a few months and all holy hell is breaking loose. Sad to see the other Dice falling after seeing the horrible mobile site design ethic get rolled into the redesign idea.
Add me to the chorus and mob that leaves the day that classic gets shut off. Classic is and has been broken for a long time now and may be crap, but the beta is just crap with the oxidation layer spray painted with generic febreeze. Why in the hell would Dice want to make it look like a WordPress malware landing page?
See you all in a week to see the flaming Ukrainian square here when the tire fires have been extinguished...
Is it true that the whims and changes to the specifications up until late September have been a major impediment?
Seems like it was a nightmare from the start. That you guys even got anything live and semi functioning is amazing and commendable. People will complain, bitch and whine while adding heaps of political tribalism, but know that some of us understand the constraints and thank you for the hard work dealing with the beasts of burden.
Congratulations on it not being completely unusable and able to start the real hard work of a large and organic site.
Good luck to you guys. All my empathy and none of my envy to ya.
The ultimate, most painful, kind of meaninglessness comes from not those who are weary of pain but those that are weary of pleasure. The deeper meaning of human connection transcends desperately trying to evoke another secretion in the brain. If you can't love someone for their own sake...
Wow. People will never see this because of the 0 AC, or laugh because it is pretty deep and they don't get your point, but I personally thank you for this. I know people suffering from exactly what you point out and worry about them all the time. Well done.
Exactly! It isn't like all the crack users died out and no more were made in nature. Hell, Nicole Kidman even married a former crack addict. The current Krokodil users won't just die in 3 years and the problem goes away. If it is cheaper and more addictive than heroin its use will become more widespread and destructive. Everyone has the "it won't happen to me" syndrome when they will first try it when they can't get their normal fix, then hop on the krokodil hamster wheel to rotten bits.
To think it's a phase or scourge that will take care of that segment of drug addiction? Might as well pray to Jesus to give you a pretty pony in 3 years, cuz you aren't going to get either outcome you are seeking.
This is the best drug deterrent and way to get rid of some losers? Bullshit. I can see a virulent and nasty antibiotic resistant TB coming out of this situation soon.
Having worked in a detox center, I can assure you that death from heroin overdose (too much heroin) is rare.
This explains it better than I could:
http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent-dangerous-myth-of-heroin-overdose/
Lot of great AC posts sitting at 0 in this thread, mods.
This whole conversation has been one of the better ones on Slashdot recently, in my own biased memory. My faith in Slashdot has been restored to go along with the aggravation everyone always has with /. Learned and realized quite a few new things just by paying attention to this thread. So I agree with the notion "Slashdot is in no way pretty, but just take a look at the other guys."
This comment deserves much more than the 0 AC score it has now. Thanks for commenting and glad to hear you made it out.
America has quickly become like Germany in regards to small brewers with incredible brews only available at a local scale. I agree that the joke will apply for a long time and will always be funny, but it is completely untrue now.
And the company that bought all of our prohibition era mistake breweries resides on your own border. You can blame the Netherlands now, like I do.
Now the parts of our culture that still buys the InBev crap because that is all they know about slightly beer flavored water, you are still correct. I still feel that shame for them too.
Thanks for that info! I was wondering what a potato could add other than yeast food and flavorlessness, but I also thought that about the sugar beet wine that ended up tasting like a good vermouth. My thoughts were going to the colored potatoes and such, so you are right about the desire to experiment.
Banana wines are one of my absolute favorites and is quickly becoming a standard in my pipeline. Tokay yeast is perfect for it. If you've been out of the scene for awhile you may be interested that people are getting away from using golden raisins for body and using welch's white grape juice concentrate instead. Even Jack Keller has largely moved away from golden rasins in the last few years to concentrate to take the obvious raisin character they add along with the body they impart.
Good luck with the banana, you won't be disappointed!
I've consistently forgotton to make nettle wine every year and kick myself for it. Thanks for the reminder!
1 million, not a million million like my crap edit above implies, apologies. Citation below:
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/steps-authentic-happiness-positive-psychology/2013/sep/26/crocodile-new-twist-old-drug-deadly-animal/
You are spot on and I came to that conclusion above and below. The Krokodil problem is one of information and tools being restricted while the precursors are not. Absolutely agree.
Prohibition and lack of realistic rehabilitation/interventions is the clear problem in this worst case scenario. One of the rare cases where it appears to be a better solution to have their low levels of heroin abuse from before than a walking dead problem.
What kinds of opportunistic disease rise up out a segment of the population that is literally rotting to death? What happens when these shitty methods/recipes that are cheap hit the drug users of China and India? Nightmare scenarios.
+10
Isn't it grand, that a figure from history went around finding plots of land that were going to be future settlements to plant apple trees for hard cider production, is one of the US' children's most known citizens?
John Chapman didn't even care what the apple varieties were. Just apple trees from seed which mostly produced wildly variable size and quality. All for cider. Chapman was a shrewd business wanderer who became immortal in story. Fascinating.
Because there isn't a finite number of users who will just die out and then the problem goes away.
Not to mention that at a current estimated user base of 1,000,000 million users will impact whatever healthcare system they have in Russia negatively. What about all the opportunistic diseases that happens when you have a large base of severely compromised immune systems?
Not a simple case of let the druggies kill themselves and leave the gene pool. Not even close.
Apologies for the out of nowhere Cruz joke. Tuesday's possible train wreck has my inner political sportscaster drunk and mouthing off to random people in the bleachers on the way to his seat. Please disregard.
+1 thanks.
I don't even want to know what kind of swill people drank during the prohibition.
Being a fervent Homebrewer, I did: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html
"Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people."
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3383
"Prohibition did briefly pay some public health dividends. The death rate from alcoholism was cut by 80 percent by 1921 from pre-war levels, while alcohol-related crime dropped markedly. Nevertheless, seven years after Prohibition went into effect, the total deaths from adulterated liquor reached approximately 50,000, and there were many more cases of blindness and paralysis. According to one story, a potential buyer who sent a liquor sample to a laboratory for analysis was shocked when a chemist replied: "Your horse has diabetes." "
"Even today, debate about the impact of Prohibition rages. Critics argue that the amendment failed to eliminate drinking, made drinking more popular among the young, spawned organized crime and disrespect for the law, encouraged solitary drinking, and led beer drinkers to hard liquor and cocktails. One wit joked that "Prohibition succeeded in replacing good beer with bad gin." The lesson these critics derive: it is counterproductive to try to legislate morality. "
So in regards to Krokodil:
freely available precursors that have legitimate uses
+ clampdown on information to iterate the impurities/efficiencies out of methods and tools
+ belief that addiction is lack of morality and willpower
= actual, not a joke, they were fiction and now they are here "ZOMBIES" (minus the "crossed over the actual deadline" of the fictional version.)
Morality or Zombies, Morality or Zombies..... Hmmmmm. What's that Senator Cruz? You said you enjoyed that show on AMC? Well shut things down and get up there and talk it out, son!!!
Yeah. So I see this is still an information and tools problem. Your method for an all grain brew is off by quite a few hours and most likely you just made bottle bombs. That 2 week wait might save you from the bottle bombs, but I still ain't going near those damn things until I chuck a few quarters at them from across the room with safety glasses on. I'll gladly watch you open one up though to see it self empty!
Now I understand how Krokodil is made and why. Not enough people who are passionate/artistic about their desomorphine and its quality like homebrewers are with their brews.
And those effects don't even last as long as those from Krokodil!
Possibly, sympathizing with bad behavior just reinforces it.
Legislating ideals of morality against real life humans doesn't seem to be working either.
Evidence = real life walking dead (while their moving bits still move that is)
Sugar beet wine tastes like vermouth, if anyone is wondering. Haven't made a potato wine yet.
Curious now, thanks!
Take away the assumption of Marinal vs Home Grown and you'd be right.
Back to alcohol though, I would just advise to find better Homebrewers. We are pretty common now. Three words will help out your shitty homebrew analogy friend, should he exist:
Homebrewtalk forums and Star-San.
If these people are falling apart because of shitty methods, then if they just have to fucking have the desomorphine, then better the tools and methods. I don't condone a MAKErs movement for desomorphine, but I don't see zombies as the better option.
Your analogy to bathtub gin is spot on, then. Only the people who don't know someone skilled in the art and tools of making desomorphine the correct way will become zombies.
So that is the answer then, as much as I would never do it. Someone create a Russian/Serbian forum that has the correct methods/recipes that people iterate on, with a store link to the correct tools and ingredients. The deso fools with shitty methods will die off in three years, (given the occasional bathtub deso maker who kills himself, friends and customers), and those people who read the forums and buy from the store will end up managing like a GP with an Oxy habit.
I'll state it again, that's very far from an ideal world, but in this one we have zombies. Mix in bath salts like someone will soon, and you get the rage virus brought to life.
And then everybody will have to live life a little faster on the run.
And most of us end up giving it away, sharing, or taking a loss. Profit? Nope.
Now joy on the other hand...
And your tiny little libertarian would be right. Hardcore addicts of heroin try to use it as a stopgap from what I've reading. I'd link a bunch of citations, but they are easily googled and found. I'm full up on the horror of it for one day to even google any more Krokodil links.
Apologies if I sounded counter to your point. But that is a weird debate to have in the short term:
Prescriptions for codeine seem more feasible in the very near term than allowing heroin in that same span of time. On the other hand, OxyContin is prescription and millions of people are addicted to that. Rich people's drugs versus poor people's drugs. Get's sticky pretty quickly.
And sticky is what these people are becoming now. So as someone with a bit of libertarianism mixed in with my shotgun democrat leanings, I always come back to better education. At least the Oxyfools don't become a ramp down the living dead inside of three years. So prescriptions for codeine and ramp up methadone production and availability may work in the near term for Eurasia.
Having the living dead roaming there is just going to make all the khat chewers around the world wonder what the hell is happening to the world.
So yeah, again, your tiny libertarian is right while my tiny relativist went to go pour some homebrew while he ponders the fucked uppedness of the walking dead with bits falling off. Tough one. Russia better take some kind of action though, since taking none is making the problem worse in the short term.
Because it becomes a passion after you've made good batches of wine from things other than grapes, beer from the base grains you've crushed yourself to get the hulls to slip off without too much tear, spirits out of left field with essences of lavender you've grown yourself.
Say what you will about just buying it, but some of us have gotten a mind virus that wants to start slapping bud lights out of people's hands.
Ciders are what kept the founding fathers alive, not to mention the rest of chimpdom for the majority of written history. Prohibiton's last laugh was that its effects were felt long after its repeal.
Pruno is what you make on the heat register. Glory is what you make in the carboy.
After you've done that a few times, there just is no going back.
This one is full of so much horror that it would be amazing if it didn't make political lines irrelevant. So of course I am preparing myself to be amazed.
Estimated 1,000,000 of the living dead, I mean users, in Russia.
Cheap codeine manufacturers making record profits. (Sigh. They just knocked on the door and gave me back my cynic's badge.)