The real reason people want to go to MIT is what you do in between classes, and the stuff which isn't in the course notes. You study with some of the brightest students on the planet, you do grunt labwork for some of the most cutting-edge researchers on the planet, and the idle musings (when a lecture runs a bit short) of someone like Rivest are priceless.
The average person does not care about that stuff, and also theres bright people in every college, the MIT students are the most disciplined students on the planet in most cases, they actually spent time studying and doing their work. The research is better but this only applies to certain programs at MIT, MIT is not the master of all fields.
Go ahead and learn all you can from all the courses MIT puts on the web, please! Don't worry about MIT; the more knowledge they put out, the more valuable they'll become. (Now if only they had the notes for the Systems Engineering subject, what was its number.....)
The more knowledge they put out the less valueable they'll become, when the average joe blow knows what an MIT graduate knows, someone will offer certification, usually a bunch of big companies who want to hire cheap labor for their new biotech lab, so certifications will replace degrees and MIT will be in the same boat as the computer science degrees that people get.
Yes a degree helps but certification and a degree are equal to most employers and in some cases they prefer to hire the person with certifications because that person is self taught, and knows the specific knowledge the job requires. If you are hiring a person for nano technology, a nano technology certification is more valueabble than a general degree from MIT. This is what I'm talking about.
Try going to public school.
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 1
If you've got the sponge-like mind and steel-like self-discipline to learn and practice straight from the textbook, more power to you, but most people don't.
Most people who went to public school DO learn to have a sponge like mind and steel like self discipline to learn straight from the text book, the ones who dont drop out. This is why urban public schools have such a high drop out rate.
Now, if you were smart enough to educate yourself all through public school, by the time you get to college, you already have the skills to do this. The ones you talk about went to private school where classes were small and teachers would give them individual attention.
Why wont your computer science degree beat out certifications when you are going for a job?
It doesnt matter if you have a degree, they want you to have specialized knowledge not general knowledge and anyone can offer certification and suddenly no one needs an MIT degree, just pull out your certification.
Technically thats supposed to be impossible.
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 1
Maybe your class graded on a curve or something but how exactly can you have a 90% average if you got a C?
I got a C and got a B, the only reason you got an A is because the teacher liked you alot and most likely would have given you an A even if you only showed up for the final exam.
its called grade inflation, this is when teachers give everyone As just for the hell of it, even when they dont actually have the numbers to back up the grade. Lucky for me, my school doesnt do that, and I hate grades on a curve, if my average grade is 85% in my calculations, thats a B+, therefore I dont expect to see an A if I have an 80 or 85 average.
Of course I'll take the A, I'd just consider it a fluke.
Re:So why ever go to university?
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 1
Yes but alot of people have better jobs than MIT grads with just certification! This is the point I'm making, if someone is MIT certified sure its not a degree, but it does prove this person has the same knowledge of an MIT grad. This would be enough to get me to hire the person over the MIT grad in alot of cases because this person will work for slightly cheaper and will have less of an ego, also this person would be self taught which is far more valueable than someone who was trained all their lives by other people.
You'll see what I mean, it will be just like the computer industry, companies want cheap labor not high quality labor, the companies arent going after people with computer science masters degrees, they are going after people who have all these certifications in very specific areas.
Its just like A+, Network+,or any of the others
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Companies will sponser the certification, you'll pay to take the exam, the companies have far more power than MIT and will get around the law by simply not profiting off opencourseware itself, but by selling certification.
In the same way I can get certified in Network+ and they dont ask how I learned what I learned or what books I used, its clear that I have to use certain books to get that information and we all know what books those are, if they dont officially endorse anything, well they cannot get in legal trouble.
MIT+ could be the same kinda thing, they just give a test based on the MIT CourseWare, and in order to pass it you must have knowledge in Open Courseware.
Of course because you could have got your knowledge from somewhere else and theres no way to prove it, well they legally have the right to sell certification. You cannot sell certification in C for dummies, or learn C in 24 hours, but you can cell C or C++ certification which requires a person learn that.
And this is the point I'm making, Open Course Ware will simple increase the value of the certification industry while decreasing the value of the degree industry.
Thats what open source Linux is doing, I mean I'm seeing Linux certification right now, but I dont see people getting degrees in Linux, and thats just the point I'm making. The certification exists and theres nothing Linus or anyone can do about it!
Thats not what I meant.
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
You can't get a MIT degree without attending MIT.
I was not trying to make the point that you could get a "degree" from MIT. I was saying you can get MIT knowledge and with that knowledge get "MIT certified". Believe me if this becomes popular its only a matter of time before theres MIT+ cerfication or some whole group of certs.
Who gets hired? The article talks about what you say, all you have to do is actually read it
Does the article even mention the fact that certification can get people hired? Its working in the tech industries, people without computer science degrees are getting certified and getting hired, then you have people with computer science degrees who cant find jobs, so yes certification counts.
In reality there is very little difference between an online course and an offline course, the difference is with an online course you have to do your own research, so what? This is the internet and it was built for research.
Offline your teacher guides you more, "read book X", "Look at page Y" +lecture+lecture and repeat.
I'm currently a college student and I have taken a web based class this term and the first few weeks adjusting to it was tough. I kept forgetting to check the boards, to post replies etc. Since you get graded on the level of discussion on the boards etc...first few weeks sucked.
I myself have more problems getting to class on time, I forget to wake up in the morning on time, and I forget to go to school, hey am I making any excuses?
Just because you cannot learn without having someone hold your hand does not mean everyone has that problem, just like I'm aware that not everyone has problems getting up early in the morning.
It's very nice though to have all the slides available 24/7 online, even ones from classes taught by other profs. Even better if they post last years tests 8-)
If you get graded for discussion in class how is this any easier? At least on the boards I can spellcheck and give a better more deliberate arguement/debate. When its in realtime its actually more difficult because you cannot take back errors, everyone gets to see/hear them.
I see nothing wrong with online courses depending on the subjects. I wouldnt take online courses to learn science myself, but for certain subjects you can get equal quality education online as you could offline, for learning history, english, philosophy, sociology, psychology, math, etc, youc an do just fine doing it online. Chemistry, and more scientific courses would be better offline where you have the state of the art MIT lab.
When Knowledge is free or easier to access the degree becomes less useful / valueable. What will happen is, someone will offer a certification test and people will take that test and instantly be MIT certified, meaning they have the knowledge level of an MIT graduate and its verified via exams.
This is what the computer industry did, I mean people are getting A+ certified, certified in everything from game development, to C++, to Linux even, so when when this MIT knowledge becomes more of a commodity what effect will it have on the market?
Knowledge is still power, it doesnt even matter where you get it from, sure MIT is a good name, but in the end, certification would be just fine for most.
So why ever go to university?
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 0
Yes but why ever go to MIT? Its ridiculously difficult to get into, its ridiculously expensive, and the classes are hard. Why go to MIT if you can get MIT quality education at home?
And if I could get a freakin degree from MIT without actually being an official student, then what effect would this have on the current system?
The current system restricts knowledge to those who can afford it, the interesting thing about this system is its potential to change that and make knowledge free. I fully support free knowledge, but if the education on the web begins to rival and surpass the education you get as a student of MIT, what happens to MIT itself, and the current style of teaching?
If you check out my journal, you can see that I have new ideas for teaching which actually are based on some of the MIT ideas, but my ideas I think apply best on the highschool level (highschool is free for everyone anyway)
On the college level however, people pay for an education, and this is where debate can occur. If its cheaper to get your degree over the web, less time consuming, easier, etc wouldnt more people get degrees?
What would the effect be on everything from the economy, to the current education system be if more people had the knowledge of an engineer, a scientist, etc?
This idea is genius.
on
MIT Everyware
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I hope it really takes off, but what if its alittle bit too successful? What MIT does not understand is, if their courses teach alittle too well or the community grows alittle too large there might not be a need to actually pay MIT to take classes there besides the name recognition.
This is the point I'm making, could this be MIT's suicide? Sure its nice of them and I plan to take full advantage of any knowledge they are willing to put out there, but the more knowledge they put out there the less valueable they become.
I'm sure a bunch of companies who get hacked by this will sue Rice University and or whoever wrote this paper.
Maybe we will see Microsoft do this, they like to sue the little guy.
Re:Why not? I'm just doing what the RIAA does.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 0, Troll
The RIAA knows alot about communicating with the masses. Alot of people seem to think filesharing is stealing now because the RIAA is a master at propaganda. I simply used their techniques to get my point accross hoping that the same fools who fall for the RIAA propaganda will fall for the Linux Mandrake propaganda.
Please stop robbing the developers and stealing Linux.
Re:Please join the mandrake club.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 0, Troll
The same way the RIAA says you are stealing if you dont buy music.
Look I'm not saying its stealing, but Linux is not free software, it never was.
Linux mandrake is a distro, people pay for it, its not free to develop it.
I never really thought 1 company would be successful selling free software, but there seem to be dozens. Color me surprised.
You are an idiot AC, they arent selling free software, they are selling services. The Linux industry is a service based industry, they dont sell products. When I tell you to pay Mandrakesoft I dont mean buy the stupid CD, I mean pay for the services, including the code production service. I mean you do want a Mandrake X dont you? OR do you want Mandrake 9 to be the last version of Mandrake ever produced? Its up to you.
Re:Please join the mandrake club.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
Hey thats your loss AC, just because you like using things for free doesnt mean free will continue to exist if you abuse it. If everyone were like you, then there would be no Linux, I mean if it were all about free, well Linux would still be commandline.
Why dont you go use your pirated copy of Windows, its free and its designed for people like you.
Why not? I'm just doing what the RIAA does.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 0, Troll
Please don't use the term "steal Linux," as it implies that anyone who potentially downloads it is a thief.
Yeah but the RIAA says anyone who downloads an mp3 is a thief, I was making a point.
t is very insulting and moreover an incorrect term to use in this context.
Yes I know it is insulting, thats why I picked that word because it seems like people equate downloading with stealing moreso than freeloading or sharing.
Even then, the company knew what it was getting into when it decided to try and sell a product that could be given away freely, so a "freeloader" in the traditional sense it not necessarily abusing the system.
They arent selling a product they are selling services. Mandrake is a services company, you pay for the code not the product.
That said, I've purchased two Mandrake retail products (@ USD70 each) in the last couple years. I'm not very social and clubs are too touchy-feely for me.
yeah thanks for supporting walmart, Mandrake prolly only gets half the money they could get if you joined the club.
Re:Please join the mandrake club.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 0
Because if their CEO wanted high salaries they wouldnt be developing Mandrake Linux for the user, they'd be acting like SCO, or acting pro business like Redhat.
This isnt about money for Mandrake, if it were, they'd make you pay $99 a year like Lindows.
Thats how you pay for "products"
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Linux is open source, its not a "product" its code. You pay for the development of the code, you dont pay for a license to run the prooduct.
You arent helping the open source movement or mandrake by buying from a store, they make more money when you pay them directly and you pay alot less money. Also its a more stable form of income for you to subscribe considering they open source they dont make money from license fees, so you have to support the developers.
Please join the mandrake club.
on
Mandrake 9.2 RC1
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Dont just "steal" Linux, join the club and help pay for development of future versions of Linux Mandrake.
This company is in serious financial trouble right now and they NEED our help, so if you download and like Mandrake please join the club! By joining the club you are helping yourself, you are going to get better higher quality software so consider it an investment in your own future.
The point hes trying to make is, do your research. You cannot get all your information from fox news or from government officials and expect it to be true!
The government is biased, this is like getting information about computers from Bill Gates, of course Windows will be the best piece of software ever written!
Japan has a better powergrid than ours. Who gave you the idea that we had the best in the world? DO not assume our system is the best just because we are the USA. Japan has alot of things better than us, as does Korea. Japan has the best power grid in the world, the most efficient public transportation in the world, the best cellphone technology in the world. They also have better robotics than us,
South Korea is the most wired country in the world, with the best internet technology in the world.
just because its USA does not automatically equal best.
So I dont see why people complain about loadtimes when its faster than XP. Sure its slower than Afterstep or Fluxbox, maybe its slower than Gnome, but its also more powerful and more refined.
I dont care about speed issues, I can upgrade my CPU or my harddrive to SCSI, I do get angry when I have to learn a new API.
Thats what we should do in theory, but you have these people who are getting paid (trolltech) or (gnome), and they want to be on the cutting edge because its fun and they get paid.
You, the user however hate changes to the inner workings of the system because you are forced to learn new APIs, and all that.
Slashdot Mirror
MIT is all about classes, its MIT, its not a normal school.
Try going to MIT and goofing off and see how long you last there.
The real reason people want to go to MIT is what you do in between classes, and the stuff which isn't in the course notes. You study with some of the brightest students on the planet, you do grunt labwork for some of the most cutting-edge researchers on the planet, and the idle musings (when a lecture runs a bit short) of someone like Rivest are priceless.
The average person does not care about that stuff, and also theres bright people in every college, the MIT students are the most disciplined students on the planet in most cases, they actually spent time studying and doing their work. The research is better but this only applies to certain programs at MIT, MIT is not the master of all fields.
Go ahead and learn all you can from all the courses MIT puts on the web, please! Don't worry about MIT; the more knowledge they put out, the more valuable they'll become. (Now if only they had the notes for the Systems Engineering subject, what was its number.....)
The more knowledge they put out the less valueable they'll become, when the average joe blow knows what an MIT graduate knows, someone will offer certification, usually a bunch of big companies who want to hire cheap labor for their new biotech lab, so certifications will replace degrees and MIT will be in the same boat as the computer science degrees that people get.
Yes a degree helps but certification and a degree are equal to most employers and in some cases they prefer to hire the person with certifications because that person is self taught, and knows the specific knowledge the job requires. If you are hiring a person for nano technology, a nano technology certification is more valueabble than a general degree from MIT. This is what I'm talking about.
If you've got the sponge-like mind and steel-like self-discipline to learn and practice straight from the textbook, more power to you, but most people don't.
Most people who went to public school DO learn to have a sponge like mind and steel like self discipline to learn straight from the text book, the ones who dont drop out. This is why urban public schools have such a high drop out rate.
Now, if you were smart enough to educate yourself all through public school, by the time you get to college, you already have the skills to do this. The ones you talk about went to private school where classes were small and teachers would give them individual attention.
Why wont your computer science degree beat out certifications when you are going for a job?
It doesnt matter if you have a degree, they want you to have specialized knowledge not general knowledge and anyone can offer certification and suddenly no one needs an MIT degree, just pull out your certification.
Maybe your class graded on a curve or something but how exactly can you have a 90% average if you got a C?
I got a C and got a B, the only reason you got an A is because the teacher liked you alot and most likely would have given you an A even if you only showed up for the final exam.
its called grade inflation, this is when teachers give everyone As just for the hell of it, even when they dont actually have the numbers to back up the grade. Lucky for me, my school doesnt do that, and I hate grades on a curve, if my average grade is 85% in my calculations, thats a B+, therefore I dont expect to see an A if I have an 80 or 85 average.
Of course I'll take the A, I'd just consider it a fluke.
Yes but alot of people have better jobs than MIT grads with just certification! This is the point I'm making, if someone is MIT certified sure its not a degree, but it does prove this person has the same knowledge of an MIT grad. This would be enough to get me to hire the person over the MIT grad in alot of cases because this person will work for slightly cheaper and will have less of an ego, also this person would be self taught which is far more valueable than someone who was trained all their lives by other people.
You'll see what I mean, it will be just like the computer industry, companies want cheap labor not high quality labor, the companies arent going after people with computer science masters degrees, they are going after people who have all these certifications in very specific areas.
Companies will sponser the certification, you'll pay to take the exam, the companies have far more power than MIT and will get around the law by simply not profiting off opencourseware itself, but by selling certification.
In the same way I can get certified in Network+ and they dont ask how I learned what I learned or what books I used, its clear that I have to use certain books to get that information and we all know what books those are, if they dont officially endorse anything, well they cannot get in legal trouble.
MIT+ could be the same kinda thing, they just give a test based on the MIT CourseWare, and in order to pass it you must have knowledge in Open Courseware.
Of course because you could have got your knowledge from somewhere else and theres no way to prove it, well they legally have the right to sell certification. You cannot sell certification in C for dummies, or learn C in 24 hours, but you can cell C or C++ certification which requires a person learn that.
And this is the point I'm making, Open Course Ware will simple increase the value of the certification industry while decreasing the value of the degree industry.
Thats what open source Linux is doing, I mean I'm seeing Linux certification right now, but I dont see people getting degrees in Linux, and thats just the point I'm making. The certification exists and theres nothing Linus or anyone can do about it!
You can't get a MIT degree without attending MIT.
I was not trying to make the point that you could get a "degree" from MIT. I was saying you can get MIT knowledge and with that knowledge get "MIT certified". Believe me if this becomes popular its only a matter of time before theres MIT+ cerfication or some whole group of certs.
Who gets hired? The article talks about what you say, all you have to do is actually read it
Does the article even mention the fact that certification can get people hired? Its working in the tech industries, people without computer science degrees are getting certified and getting hired, then you have people with computer science degrees who cant find jobs, so yes certification counts.
In reality there is very little difference between an online course and an offline course, the difference is with an online course you have to do your own research, so what? This is the internet and it was built for research.
Offline your teacher guides you more, "read book X", "Look at page Y" +lecture+lecture and repeat.
I'm currently a college student and I have taken a web based class this term and the first few weeks adjusting to it was tough. I kept forgetting to check the boards, to post replies etc. Since you get graded on the level of discussion on the boards etc...first few weeks sucked.
I myself have more problems getting to class on time, I forget to wake up in the morning on time, and I forget to go to school, hey am I making any excuses?
Just because you cannot learn without having someone hold your hand does not mean everyone has that problem, just like I'm aware that not everyone has problems getting up early in the morning.
It's very nice though to have all the slides available 24/7 online, even ones from classes taught by other profs. Even better if they post last years tests 8-)
If you get graded for discussion in class how is this any easier? At least on the boards I can spellcheck and give a better more deliberate arguement/debate. When its in realtime its actually more difficult because you cannot take back errors, everyone gets to see/hear them.
I see nothing wrong with online courses depending on the subjects. I wouldnt take online courses to learn science myself, but for certain subjects you can get equal quality education online as you could offline, for learning history, english, philosophy, sociology, psychology, math, etc, youc an do just fine doing it online. Chemistry, and more scientific courses would be better offline where you have the state of the art MIT lab.
When Knowledge is free or easier to access the degree becomes less useful / valueable. What will happen is, someone will offer a certification test and people will take that test and instantly be MIT certified, meaning they have the knowledge level of an MIT graduate and its verified via exams.
This is what the computer industry did, I mean people are getting A+ certified, certified in everything from game development, to C++, to Linux even, so when when this MIT knowledge becomes more of a commodity what effect will it have on the market?
Knowledge is still power, it doesnt even matter where you get it from, sure MIT is a good name, but in the end, certification would be just fine for most.
Yes but why ever go to MIT? Its ridiculously difficult to get into, its ridiculously expensive, and the classes are hard. Why go to MIT if you can get MIT quality education at home?
And if I could get a freakin degree from MIT without actually being an official student, then what effect would this have on the current system?
The current system restricts knowledge to those who can afford it, the interesting thing about this system is its potential to change that and make knowledge free. I fully support free knowledge, but if the education on the web begins to rival and surpass the education you get as a student of MIT, what happens to MIT itself, and the current style of teaching?
If you check out my journal, you can see that I have new ideas for teaching which actually are based on some of the MIT ideas, but my ideas I think apply best on the highschool level (highschool is free for everyone anyway)
On the college level however, people pay for an education, and this is where debate can occur. If its cheaper to get your degree over the web, less time consuming, easier, etc wouldnt more people get degrees?
What would the effect be on everything from the economy, to the current education system be if more people had the knowledge of an engineer, a scientist, etc?
I hope it really takes off, but what if its alittle bit too successful? What MIT does not understand is, if their courses teach alittle too well or the community grows alittle too large there might not be a need to actually pay MIT to take classes there besides the name recognition.
This is the point I'm making, could this be MIT's suicide? Sure its nice of them and I plan to take full advantage of any knowledge they are willing to put out there, but the more knowledge they put out there the less valueable they become.
Lindows was sued before they even released their product.
I'm sure a bunch of companies who get hacked by this will sue Rice University and or whoever wrote this paper.
Maybe we will see Microsoft do this, they like to sue the little guy.
The RIAA knows alot about communicating with the masses. Alot of people seem to think filesharing is stealing now because the RIAA is a master at propaganda. I simply used their techniques to get my point accross hoping that the same fools who fall for the RIAA propaganda will fall for the Linux Mandrake propaganda.
Please stop robbing the developers and stealing Linux.
The same way the RIAA says you are stealing if you dont buy music.
Look I'm not saying its stealing, but Linux is not free software, it never was.
Linux mandrake is a distro, people pay for it, its not free to develop it.
I never really thought 1 company would be successful selling free software, but there seem to be dozens. Color me surprised.
You are an idiot AC, they arent selling free software, they are selling services. The Linux industry is a service based industry, they dont sell products. When I tell you to pay Mandrakesoft I dont mean buy the stupid CD, I mean pay for the services, including the code production service. I mean you do want a Mandrake X dont you? OR do you want Mandrake 9 to be the last version of Mandrake ever produced? Its up to you.
Hey thats your loss AC, just because you like using things for free doesnt mean free will continue to exist if you abuse it. If everyone were like you, then there would be no Linux, I mean if it were all about free, well Linux would still be commandline.
Why dont you go use your pirated copy of Windows, its free and its designed for people like you.
Please don't use the term "steal Linux," as it implies that anyone who potentially downloads it is a thief.
Yeah but the RIAA says anyone who downloads an mp3 is a thief, I was making a point.
t is very insulting and moreover an incorrect term to use in this context.
Yes I know it is insulting, thats why I picked that word because it seems like people equate downloading with stealing moreso than freeloading or sharing.
Even then, the company knew what it was getting into when it decided to try and sell a product that could be given away freely, so a "freeloader" in the traditional sense it not necessarily abusing the system.
They arent selling a product they are selling services. Mandrake is a services company, you pay for the code not the product.
That said, I've purchased two Mandrake retail products (@ USD70 each) in the last couple years. I'm not very social and clubs are too touchy-feely for me.
yeah thanks for supporting walmart, Mandrake prolly only gets half the money they could get if you joined the club.
Because if their CEO wanted high salaries they wouldnt be developing Mandrake Linux for the user, they'd be acting like SCO, or acting pro business like Redhat.
This isnt about money for Mandrake, if it were, they'd make you pay $99 a year like Lindows.
Linux is open source, its not a "product" its code. You pay for the development of the code, you dont pay for a license to run the prooduct.
You arent helping the open source movement or mandrake by buying from a store, they make more money when you pay them directly and you pay alot less money. Also its a more stable form of income for you to subscribe considering they open source they dont make money from license fees, so you have to support the developers.
Dont just "steal" Linux, join the club and help pay for development of future versions of Linux Mandrake.
This company is in serious financial trouble right now and they NEED our help, so if you download and like Mandrake please join the club! By joining the club you are helping yourself, you are going to get better higher quality software so consider it an investment in your own future.
The point hes trying to make is, do your research. You cannot get all your information from fox news or from government officials and expect it to be true!
The government is biased, this is like getting information about computers from Bill Gates, of course Windows will be the best piece of software ever written!
Japan has a better powergrid than ours. Who gave you the idea that we had the best in the world? DO not assume our system is the best just because we are the USA. Japan has alot of things better than us, as does Korea. Japan has the best power grid in the world, the most efficient public transportation in the world, the best cellphone technology in the world. They also have better robotics than us,
South Korea is the most wired country in the world, with the best internet technology in the world.
just because its USA does not automatically equal best.
So I dont see why people complain about loadtimes when its faster than XP. Sure its slower than Afterstep or Fluxbox, maybe its slower than Gnome, but its also more powerful and more refined.
I dont care about speed issues, I can upgrade my CPU or my harddrive to SCSI, I do get angry when I have to learn a new API.
Thats what we should do in theory, but you have these people who are getting paid (trolltech) or (gnome), and they want to be on the cutting edge because its fun and they get paid.
You, the user however hate changes to the inner workings of the system because you are forced to learn new APIs, and all that.
Why turn Linux into Windows?