Its legal to put upskirt pictures of women on the net.
"But the easy availability of this material inspires the creation of yet more child pornography, meaning that the practice will expand."
Please back this up with facts. Theres snuff films availble on the net too, why arent there more serial killers?
"The photos may occasionally help track down a child pornographer. Certainly it's easier for the activity to come to the attention of the authorities if that is so.
That is, until you put it into Freenet, where it is essentially impossible to track where the material is coming from over the Net. The details in the photos may help narrow down the location, but only if the pornographer is stupid enough to let unique features show up in the distributed versions. One basement looks pretty much like any other basement."
Its not about tracking the pictures, its about stopping the pictures from being produced.
You can never trade back child porn if its done in Europe and even if you do trace back its legal to make it in Europe, so why should Europeans be profiting on Child porn?
"Most people who make child porn don't expect to get paid for it. They make it firstly because they like it, but also because they can trade it for more child pornography from other people like them."
And you know this how?
Most child porn is filmed in Europe where its completely legal to make it, then websites are put on the internet, where hundreds of kids pictures are sold all at once to a subscriber.
Your method is so inefficient that only the really hardcore inner circle would trade porn that way. The AVERAGE joe who just has a fetish has nothing to trade, they want to see kiddie porn for free but dont make porn of their own, so their solution is to buy it, whatever they buy other people already have, those hardcore guys most likely already have it so the average joe cannot get into their inner circle.
The average person viewing child porn is not a rapist, they are just an average person with an unusual fetish. The people who make the porn make it because they are fucked up in the head, and they record it for themselves, not to distribute it, they record it so they can watch it, and they share it with their friends and eventually it gets on the internet.
Like RKelly and his videos, he recorded it for himself, his friendd go ahold of it, and somehow it leaked onto the internet.
The whole trade system you talk about is so unreliable because it would be too easy to set up a sting, using fake child porn to catch everyone in the inner circle.
So if you were right, and all porn were coming from there our police would have no problem stopping it, the problem is the porn is coming from places where its actually legal to make it.
It can be had for free? No it doesnt work that way, sure you might find small amounts of it for free on Kazaa or something but on the web you'll never find free kiddie porn.
Most kiddie porn is european porn where in their country its legal. The free stuff you talk about is REALLY hard to find.
"The people that create kiddie porn now are the kinds of dangerous psychos that would do it under absolutely any circumstance. They don't necessarily make any money at all. Kiddie porn can be acquired for free, right now. If the trade of kiddie porn were legalized, it would open more venues for the sick fucks to make money, and the price of kiddie porn would not decrease (since it can be had for free right now)."
Yes but its not easy to find it for free thats why most people buy it from european websites.
You make the point that more kiddie porn will be produced if more free kiddie porn is found in one sentence but wait you said "The people that create kiddie porn now are the kinds of dangerous psychos that would do it under absolutely any circumstance. "
So if they will do it anyway what difference does it make if the masses can see it or not?
" This would be a valid argument if porn was not addictive and did not encourage abuse."
How many people have you raped? I'm sure we all look at porn here, but only a small percentage of us are rapists. Porn is addictive, but it doesnt lead to rape and abuse.
Just like playing quake doesnt lead to shooting up your school.
you make a good point Anonymous, however while there is Amatuer porn theres nothing you can do to stop that. You can only stop the professional stuff, if the person isnt making any money off of it what can you do? Not much, its like trying to stop gnutella, no one makes money off of it so theres no easy way to attack it, but why should you sue the people for using gnutella?
I'm just against censorship. I dont think theres an easy way to stop rapists and murderers, theres snuff films on the internet as well, theres no way to stop that stuff, snuff films are even worse than kiddie porn, but if some serial killer is crazy and murders people and puts it on the net, theres nothing anyone could ever do to stop it.
Censoring it wont stop it. The crime would still happen, it just wouldnt be noticed, it wouldnt be on the net.
Its equal to posting Microsofts source code all over the internet, what would happen then? Well Microsoft wouldnt be able to sell Windows anymore for $200-300 I can promise you that.
The only reason the price is that high is because they have a monopoly, and everyone has to get it from them.
Theres less children being abused because kiddie porn is no longer as profitable, so how would this hurt the children? Are you telling me in countries where kiddie porn is legal to make and they pay kids to make this porn, that by pirating their work and keeping them from being paid that its hurting them?
Thats like saying "Buy from prostitutes, they have families to support"
You are really that stupid that you dont understand the economics behind this arguement??/
" You are saying that it's acceptable to abduct or illegally buy children, beat them, rape them, photograph/film it, and distribute it to other sick pervs as long as you're not doing it for cash."
Wrong, I'm not saying its ok to CREATE KIDDIE PORN you dumbass, I'm saying its ok to distribute it if someone else already created it.
Its not harming anyone to VIEW it. It harms people to buy it and create an economy for it, and it harms people to actually publish it, but if its already on the internet, if someone already published it, why should innocent people be put in jail just for viewing it, as if they raped the kid?
Its like blaming mc donalds for being fat, you blame the people who create the kiddie porn, lock up the rapists.
But why kill freedom of speech on the internet as if thats somehow going to stop kids from being raped? It will cause more kids to be raped, the more you restrict kiddie porn, the more people are willing to pay for it, and the more kids are abused to produce it.
Its a business, just like drug dealing is a business, do you think people sell drugs for fun? People sell drugs for money, if all drugs were free and there were endless supply, well there would be no people being killed over it, and no one would be harmed, people who want to get high will get high if its legal or illegal, same with kiddie porn, you cannot outlaw thoughts only actions, I'm worried about actions and if you look at what I said, by killing all economic benefits it reduces actions, it doesnt change peoples thoughts because thats impossible and censorship does not change thought, it just makes people hide them.
Creating kiddie porn should be illegal, we agree on that.
But why the hell should you punish a person for viewing something? thats ridiculous!
Thats as stupid as mc donalds consumers sueing mc donalds for making them fat, you dont take it out on mc donalds.
Look if people have fantasies of having sex with kids, not having pictures wont change this, people will jerk off to text, art they draw themselves, and fake kiddie porn, virtual porn, whatever
Its pointless to try to outlaw their fantasies, it just makes them more innovative and innovation is not what we want.
Thought crimes? You agree with that? Fuck the law,this is about morality, not law.
You are right it is illegal, but stuff like freenet would not have to be built if the thought police werent takingg the censorship idea overboard to the point of saying you cannot even LOOK at something.
Thats overboard. By the way, no one knows who owns the speech because no one knows who originally published it, the speech could be considered yours however if you dont know its yours they cannot put you in prison.
You have to willingly distirbute kiddie porn to go to jail, you have to actually know you have it.
If not, well then I can put anyone I want in jail by putting some drugs in their pocket and calling the cops.
I can just wait for you to leave your jacket, plant some drugs or some other illegal material in it, and then call the police.
no, its not as simple as planting something on someone, it has to be proven that its you who owned it, if evidence says someone planted it, well thats the same way OJ got away with murder, because police were stupid and planted some gloves there.
You see, when you cannot trace the evidence back how do you have a case? Theres a jury who has to look at this. Theres a judge, its not just some law saying you go to jail, no, you are innocent until proven guilty and if not, I'm leavinng USA.
IF they can start a witch hunt with Mp3s and Kiddie porn why stay here? Anyone can say you have some illegal stuff on your computer and put you in jail? bullshit, hell I could hack into someones computer and put it there just so I can put them in prison! Hey thats a new way of hacking, I can really fuck my enemies up when I get them arrested and put in prison for 10 years for something they didnt even do.
What if someone wrote a virus which plants kiddie porn on random computers? or a worm? You just dont get it, you cannot arrest a person for that. The best the gov could do is label freenet a virus.
Should the people whos computers were used to take out other computers in those internet attacks be locked up in jail as if they did it? No the investigators try to trace back to the people who created it, so expect ian clarke to go to jail before you do.
The porn you look at is high class legal porn, I really doubt anyone can feel good about buying kiddie porn.
No ones going to be like "hey I just purchased a lifetime membership to the kiddie porn club for $2000!"
The more embarrassing the fetish, the more abnormal the sex, the less likely someone is to pay for it, no ones going to brag about subscribing to the scat piss porn site, no one would want anyone to know they even look at it, its not the kinda thing people want everyone to know, its not the kinda thing normal people would pay money to see without thinking "ok, if I'm going to pay for this, I better use a fake name and make sure it they dont send anything back in the mail about this"
appetites arent developed, you have it when you look for it in the first place. You want to see kiddie porn meaning you already have that fetish, its not something you someday just discover after seeing a picture of a naked kid.
So the whole develop their appetite garbage is just that. Just like its garbage to think if I play shitty music in your ear enough that I can be developing your appetite, you like it or you dont. People who like kiddie porn, will imagine it in their heads if they cant find it, they might draw pictures of it, read stories (stories about it are perfectly legal so why not images?)
You cannot make thought a crime, and you cannot control thought by restricting images or by showing them, you cannot develop a pervert.
I've seen some sick scat porn, and theres no way in hell I'd even imagine something like that, in fact it grosses me out, someone else might see it and be turned on, thats just them, you dont blame the porn.
Laws should be created to PROTECT people from each other.
Censoring Kiddie Porn from freenet will actually harm more kids than it will help. The more porn people can get for free the less porn they will pay for, no one really feels good about buying porn, no ones going to be like "hey this porn is good, let me go pay the creator of this" no, people take porn and only pay for it when they are desperate.
It makes plenty of since to go after porn sites on the web because they SELL kiddie porn, someones earning money to abuse kids and then selling the photos and movies, this SHOULD be illegal because someone is being harmed for cash.
Now, if these pictures are stolen from the site and placed on freenet and all over the P2Ps and people download and view it without payinng a dime, who is this hurting? The producer of the porn is the one losing money here, so why should we attack people who share porn for free? So the guy who makes the porn can continue to force people to buy it?
I dont get it.
If someone distributes music, record companies can say artists arent making money blah blah blah, they at least have some kinda arguement, artists do deserve to be paid.
But when its kiddie porn you cannot use that same arguement, if people are on kazaa sharing it, SOME guy who created that porn is making less money than they would have made,
This doesnt just go for kiddie porn but the whole porn industry, the more people who share porn for free, the less money made on it, the more the industry suffers, and then less porn is created.
The more you restrict porn, the more demand you create, and the more expensive it gets, and with this price being high, it causes whoevers making it to make more money.
So as far as the porn industry goes, you arent going to somehow rid the world of pedophiles, these people will always exist, the best you can do is remove their ability to make money off of it.
No one gets hurt when you share child porn, because no ones buying or selling the child porn, no ones making money off of it, no ones being hurt, what you have here are a bunch of people who view censored materials which are censored for what reason? To keep the demand for child porn nice and high so the pedophiles can continue to make money selling it? Its like the drug trade,
When you make something hard to find you end up making it far more valueable, people kill for it, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on it, and guys who create it now have incentive to create it, making child porn can make you a millionsare!
This is not what we want, why should we allow them to make money?
Inciting riots and advocating murder are one thing, viewing child porn is not advocating it, buying it is advocating it.
So would you rather they but it and support the industry, or view it and kill the industry?
Even if Nambla is hosting a forum on your PC, why should you be raided? they have the right to host a forum, as long as they dont do anything illegal they can talk about molesting kids and so on.
Speech is speech, you cannot arrest people for that. I dont agree with their speech, I also dont agree with the KKK, the Nazis, and Al Qaeda, but if we are supposed to be all about freedom it has to be freedom for everyone, not just freedom for "good" people.
Its all or nothing, we either support freedom, or we support censorship, theres no in between.
Illegal pornography is against freedom of speech, its censorship, I'm not a fan of kiddie porn, but kiddie porn itself is not a crime, the crime is in the act of creating that porn, and the act of buying that porn.
When you buy it you support its creation, when you make it you abuse a kid, so yes its fair to outlaw buying and selling kiddie porn.
Viewing it however should not be a crime, what right does anyone have to say that you cant view something? No money is being made, no ones being harmed, in fact the guy who created the porn who harmed the child is not making a penny so you have the moral arguement on your side in saying freenet robs the kiddie porn industry just like it robs the RIAA and music industries.
People who may have purchased kiddie porn from their usual sources for insane amounts of money now have no reason to buy it, and theres no incentive to keep producing it, or at least thats the arguement the RIAA makes.
This wont stop kiddie porn, just like not buying music from record companies wont stop music from being created, but what it will do is it will kill the industry, anyone who wants to sell kiddie porn will have to sell direct and they will get caught immediately.
Musicians will still be able to sell music, they will just have to sell direct to their fans.
Theres always going to be child porn on freenet, at least the people arent profiting from it, you cant stop child porn being shared the only thing you can do is remove incentive to make the porn.
Porn thats on freenet is porn thats not sold, which means the porn industry loses money and has less incentive to make it.
I dont see how freenet is doing any harm, child porn was on the web making pedophiles and molestors millions of dollars, and now its on kazaa and freenet, they wont make a dime.
By removing it from freenet and kazaa what you are doing is saving the child porn industry, this allows more kids to get hurt and abused for profit.
Freenet search engines do exist, Freenet is like the early world wide web and it might someday replace the world wide web, if our gov censors the web to death.
Try posting the source code to microsoft windows on the regular internet, see what happens. Hell just post an exploit for Microsoft windows and see what happens.
News? our news is limited, we cant talk about certain questionable subjects without being labaled communist, socialist, liberal, or something, you cant talk about hacking anymore, when I was growing up on the net, I remember hacker sites were everywhere, we had chatrooms and everything, a whole culture, and now its gone.
You cant really block it, anyone with a java compiler can compile the code.
Look I'n not even caring about China, I care about USA, what about our freedom of speech? who gives a fuck about China, This protects our freedom of speech just as much.
Its debateable but sharing music, porn, or warez is a form of speech because you are sharing 1s and 0s.
Its debateable or questionable censored speech but its speech, talking about DCESS or whatever, and releasing exploits to the masses is speech, but you go to jail for that.
So we dont have true freedom of speech. Freenet gives us true freedom of speech. Censorship becomes difficult and eventually impossible if enouggh people use freenet.
The gun can be used for bad things too, whats your point? The internet is here, deal with it.
As long as we build alot of useful good sites into freenet, freenet will do fine, when we let the warez and mp3 guys make all the popular sites freenet might be attacked.
So what you have to do is build sites which people want to see besides mp3, porn and warez.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah so somehow its my fault some child somewhere in the world got raped? Yeah ok. That kid would be raped if I use freenet or not.
Its legal to put upskirt pictures of women on the net.
"But the easy availability of this material inspires the creation of yet more child pornography, meaning that the practice will expand."
Please back this up with facts. Theres snuff films availble on the net too, why arent there more serial killers?
"The photos may occasionally help track down a child pornographer. Certainly it's easier for the activity to come to the attention of the authorities if that is so.
That is, until you put it into Freenet, where it is essentially impossible to track where the material is coming from over the Net. The details in the photos may help narrow down the location, but only if the pornographer is stupid enough to let unique features show up in the distributed versions. One basement looks pretty much like any other basement."
Its not about tracking the pictures, its about stopping the pictures from being produced.
You can never trade back child porn if its done in Europe and even if you do trace back its legal to make it in Europe, so why should Europeans be profiting on Child porn?
"Most people who make child porn don't expect to get paid for it. They make it firstly because they like it, but also because they can trade it for more child pornography from other people like them."
And you know this how?
Most child porn is filmed in Europe where its completely legal to make it, then websites are put on the internet, where hundreds of kids pictures are sold all at once to a subscriber.
Your method is so inefficient that only the really hardcore inner circle would trade porn that way. The AVERAGE joe who just has a fetish has nothing to trade, they want to see kiddie porn for free but dont make porn of their own, so their solution is to buy it, whatever they buy other people already have, those hardcore guys most likely already have it so the average joe cannot get into their inner circle.
The average person viewing child porn is not a rapist, they are just an average person with an unusual fetish. The people who make the porn make it because they are fucked up in the head, and they record it for themselves, not to distribute it, they record it so they can watch it, and they share it with their friends and eventually it gets on the internet.
Like RKelly and his videos, he recorded it for himself, his friendd go ahold of it, and somehow it leaked onto the internet.
The whole trade system you talk about is so unreliable because it would be too easy to set up a sting, using fake child porn to catch everyone in the inner circle.
So if you were right, and all porn were coming from there our police would have no problem stopping it, the problem is the porn is coming from places where its actually legal to make it.
If you were right, OJ would be in jail.
It can be had for free? No it doesnt work that way, sure you might find small amounts of it for free on Kazaa or something but on the web you'll never find free kiddie porn.
Most kiddie porn is european porn where in their country its legal. The free stuff you talk about is REALLY hard to find.
"The people that create kiddie porn now are the kinds of dangerous psychos that would do it under absolutely any circumstance. They don't necessarily make any money at all. Kiddie porn can be acquired for free, right now. If the trade of kiddie porn were legalized, it would open more venues for the sick fucks to make money, and the price of kiddie porn would not decrease (since it can be had for free right now)."
Yes but its not easy to find it for free thats why most people buy it from european websites.
You make the point that more kiddie porn will be produced if more free kiddie porn is found in one sentence but wait you said
"The people that create kiddie porn now are the kinds of dangerous psychos that would do it under absolutely any circumstance. "
So if they will do it anyway what difference does it make if the masses can see it or not?
" This would be a valid argument if porn was not addictive and did not encourage abuse."
How many people have you raped? I'm sure we all look at porn here, but only a small percentage of us are rapists. Porn is addictive, but it doesnt lead to rape and abuse.
Just like playing quake doesnt lead to shooting up your school.
Theres a select amount of people who want child porn and they will get it, Its not worth us sacraficing our freedom of speech.
The child was already hurt before the Child porn was on the internet, whats your point? How does viewing it hurt the child?
you make a good point Anonymous, however while there is Amatuer porn theres nothing you can do to stop that. You can only stop the professional stuff, if the person isnt making any money off of it what can you do? Not much, its like trying to stop gnutella, no one makes money off of it so theres no easy way to attack it, but why should you sue the people for using gnutella?
I'm just against censorship. I dont think theres an easy way to stop rapists and murderers, theres snuff films on the internet as well, theres no way to stop that stuff, snuff films are even worse than kiddie porn, but if some serial killer is crazy and murders people and puts it on the net, theres nothing anyone could ever do to stop it.
Censoring it wont stop it. The crime would still happen, it just wouldnt be noticed, it wouldnt be on the net.
Thats exactly what I was saying!
Its equal to posting Microsofts source code all over the internet, what would happen then? Well Microsoft wouldnt be able to sell Windows anymore for $200-300 I can promise you that.
The only reason the price is that high is because they have a monopoly, and everyone has to get it from them.
Theres less children being abused because kiddie porn is no longer as profitable, so how would this hurt the children? Are you telling me in countries where kiddie porn is legal to make and they pay kids to make this porn, that by pirating their work and keeping them from being paid that its hurting them?
Thats like saying "Buy from prostitutes, they have families to support"
You are really that stupid that you dont understand the economics behind this arguement??/
" You are saying that it's acceptable to abduct or illegally buy children, beat them, rape them, photograph/film it, and distribute it to other sick pervs as long as you're not doing it for cash."
Wrong, I'm not saying its ok to CREATE KIDDIE PORN you dumbass, I'm saying its ok to distribute it if someone else already created it.
Its not harming anyone to VIEW it. It harms people to buy it and create an economy for it, and it harms people to actually publish it, but if its already on the internet, if someone already published it, why should innocent people be put in jail just for viewing it, as if they raped the kid?
Its like blaming mc donalds for being fat, you blame the people who create the kiddie porn, lock up the rapists.
But why kill freedom of speech on the internet as if thats somehow going to stop kids from being raped? It will cause more kids to be raped, the more you restrict kiddie porn, the more people are willing to pay for it, and the more kids are abused to produce it.
Its a business, just like drug dealing is a business, do you think people sell drugs for fun? People sell drugs for money, if all drugs were free and there were endless supply, well there would be no people being killed over it, and no one would be harmed, people who want to get high will get high if its legal or illegal, same with kiddie porn, you cannot outlaw thoughts only actions, I'm worried about actions and if you look at what I said, by killing all economic benefits it reduces actions, it doesnt change peoples thoughts because thats impossible and censorship does not change thought, it just makes people hide them.
Creating kiddie porn should be illegal, we agree on that.
But why the hell should you punish a person for viewing something? thats ridiculous!
Thats as stupid as mc donalds consumers sueing mc donalds for making them fat, you dont take it out on mc donalds.
Look if people have fantasies of having sex with kids, not having pictures wont change this, people will jerk off to text, art they draw themselves, and fake kiddie porn, virtual porn, whatever
Its pointless to try to outlaw their fantasies, it just makes them more innovative and innovation is not what we want.
Thought crimes? You agree with that? Fuck the law,this is about morality, not law.
You are right it is illegal, but stuff like freenet would not have to be built if the thought police werent takingg the censorship idea overboard to the point of saying you cannot even LOOK at something.
Thats overboard. By the way, no one knows who owns the speech because no one knows who originally published it, the speech could be considered yours however if you dont know its yours they cannot put you in prison.
You have to willingly distirbute kiddie porn to go to jail, you have to actually know you have it.
If not, well then I can put anyone I want in jail by putting some drugs in their pocket and calling the cops.
I can just wait for you to leave your jacket, plant some drugs or some other illegal material in it, and then call the police.
no, its not as simple as planting something on someone, it has to be proven that its you who owned it, if evidence says someone planted it, well thats the same way OJ got away with murder, because police were stupid and planted some gloves there.
You see, when you cannot trace the evidence back how do you have a case? Theres a jury who has to look at this. Theres a judge, its not just some law saying you go to jail, no, you are innocent until proven guilty and if not, I'm leavinng USA.
IF they can start a witch hunt with Mp3s and Kiddie porn why stay here? Anyone can say you have some illegal stuff on your computer and put you in jail? bullshit, hell I could hack into someones computer and put it there just so I can put them in prison! Hey thats a new way of hacking, I can really fuck my enemies up when I get them arrested and put in prison for 10 years for something they didnt even do.
What if someone wrote a virus which plants kiddie porn on random computers? or a worm? You just dont get it, you cannot arrest a person for that. The best the gov could do is label freenet a virus.
Should the people whos computers were used to take out other computers in those internet attacks be locked up in jail as if they did it? No the investigators try to trace back to the people who created it, so expect ian clarke to go to jail before you do.
The porn you look at is high class legal porn, I really doubt anyone can feel good about buying kiddie porn.
No ones going to be like "hey I just purchased a lifetime membership to the kiddie porn club for $2000!"
The more embarrassing the fetish, the more abnormal the sex, the less likely someone is to pay for it, no ones going to brag about subscribing to the scat piss porn site, no one would want anyone to know they even look at it, its not the kinda thing people want everyone to know, its not the kinda thing normal people would pay money to see without thinking "ok, if I'm going to pay for this, I better use a fake name and make sure it they dont send anything back in the mail about this"
"developing their appetite"
appetites arent developed, you have it when you look for it in the first place. You want to see kiddie porn meaning you already have that fetish, its not something you someday just discover after seeing a picture of a naked kid.
So the whole develop their appetite garbage is just that. Just like its garbage to think if I play shitty music in your ear enough that I can be developing your appetite, you like it or you dont. People who like kiddie porn, will imagine it in their heads if they cant find it, they might draw pictures of it, read stories (stories about it are perfectly legal so why not images?)
You cannot make thought a crime, and you cannot control thought by restricting images or by showing them, you cannot develop a pervert.
I've seen some sick scat porn, and theres no way in hell I'd even imagine something like that, in fact it grosses me out, someone else might see it and be turned on, thats just them, you dont blame the porn.
People dont feel good about buying Porn, they feel embarrassed.
People feel good about owning a CD and would brag about how much music they buy.
Its not the same, Just like its not cool to buy cheap sneakers, you have to get the name brands, its the same thing.
Laws should be created to PROTECT people from each other.
Censoring Kiddie Porn from freenet will actually harm more kids than it will help. The more porn people can get for free the less porn they will pay for, no one really feels good about buying porn, no ones going to be like "hey this porn is good, let me go pay the creator of this" no, people take porn and only pay for it when they are desperate.
It makes plenty of since to go after porn sites on the web because they SELL kiddie porn, someones earning money to abuse kids and then selling the photos and movies, this SHOULD be illegal because someone is being harmed for cash.
Now, if these pictures are stolen from the site and placed on freenet and all over the P2Ps and people download and view it without payinng a dime, who is this hurting? The producer of the porn is the one losing money here, so why should we attack people who share porn for free? So the guy who makes the porn can continue to force people to buy it?
I dont get it.
If someone distributes music, record companies can say artists arent making money blah blah blah, they at least have some kinda arguement, artists do deserve to be paid.
But when its kiddie porn you cannot use that same arguement, if people are on kazaa sharing it, SOME guy who created that porn is making less money than they would have made,
This doesnt just go for kiddie porn but the whole porn industry, the more people who share porn for free, the less money made on it, the more the industry suffers, and then less porn is created.
The more you restrict porn, the more demand you create, and the more expensive it gets, and with this price being high, it causes whoevers making it to make more money.
So as far as the porn industry goes, you arent going to somehow rid the world of pedophiles, these people will always exist, the best you can do is remove their ability to make money off of it.
Its not freedom of speech when someone gets hurt.
No one gets hurt when you share child porn, because no ones buying or selling the child porn, no ones making money off of it, no ones being hurt, what you have here are a bunch of people who view censored materials which are censored for what reason? To keep the demand for child porn nice and high so the pedophiles can continue to make money selling it? Its like the drug trade,
When you make something hard to find you end up making it far more valueable, people kill for it, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on it, and guys who create it now have incentive to create it, making child porn can make you a millionsare!
This is not what we want, why should we allow them to make money?
Inciting riots and advocating murder are one thing, viewing child porn is not advocating it, buying it is advocating it.
So would you rather they but it and support the industry, or view it and kill the industry?
Choose. If you want to censor the KKK you dont support free speech.
I cant stand the KKK, and I cant stand kiddie porn, but they do have the right to talk about hate and kiddie porn.
As long as this never turns into action, its just a bunch of 1s and 0s, speech.
Even if Nambla is hosting a forum on your PC, why should you be raided? they have the right to host a forum, as long as they dont do anything illegal they can talk about molesting kids and so on.
Speech is speech, you cannot arrest people for that. I dont agree with their speech, I also dont agree with the KKK, the Nazis, and Al Qaeda, but if we are supposed to be all about freedom it has to be freedom for everyone, not just freedom for "good" people.
Its all or nothing, we either support freedom, or we support censorship, theres no in between.
Illegal pornography is against freedom of speech, its censorship, I'm not a fan of kiddie porn, but kiddie porn itself is not a crime, the crime is in the act of creating that porn, and the act of buying that porn.
When you buy it you support its creation, when you make it you abuse a kid, so yes its fair to outlaw buying and selling kiddie porn.
Viewing it however should not be a crime, what right does anyone have to say that you cant view something? No money is being made, no ones being harmed, in fact the guy who created the porn who harmed the child is not making a penny so you have the moral arguement on your side in saying freenet robs the kiddie porn industry just like it robs the RIAA and music industries.
People who may have purchased kiddie porn from their usual sources for insane amounts of money now have no reason to buy it, and theres no incentive to keep producing it, or at least thats the arguement the RIAA makes.
This wont stop kiddie porn, just like not buying music from record companies wont stop music from being created, but what it will do is it will kill the industry, anyone who wants to sell kiddie porn will have to sell direct and they will get caught immediately.
Musicians will still be able to sell music, they will just have to sell direct to their fans.
Theres always going to be child porn on freenet, at least the people arent profiting from it, you cant stop child porn being shared the only thing you can do is remove incentive to make the porn.
Porn thats on freenet is porn thats not sold, which means the porn industry loses money and has less incentive to make it.
I dont see how freenet is doing any harm, child porn was on the web making pedophiles and molestors millions of dollars, and now its on kazaa and freenet, they wont make a dime.
By removing it from freenet and kazaa what you are doing is saving the child porn industry, this allows more kids to get hurt and abused for profit.
Freenet search engines do exist, Freenet is like the early world wide web and it might someday replace the world wide web, if our gov censors the web to death.
Try posting the source code to microsoft windows on the regular internet, see what happens. Hell just post an exploit for Microsoft windows and see what happens.
News? our news is limited, we cant talk about certain questionable subjects without being labaled communist, socialist, liberal, or something, you cant talk about hacking anymore, when I was growing up on the net, I remember hacker sites were everywhere, we had chatrooms and everything, a whole culture, and now its gone.
You cant really block it, anyone with a java compiler can compile the code.
Look I'n not even caring about China, I care about USA, what about our freedom of speech? who gives a fuck about China, This protects our freedom of speech just as much.
Its debateable but sharing music, porn, or warez is a form of speech because you are sharing 1s and 0s.
Its debateable or questionable censored speech but its speech, talking about DCESS or whatever, and releasing exploits to the masses is speech, but you go to jail for that.
So we dont have true freedom of speech. Freenet gives us true freedom of speech. Censorship becomes difficult and eventually impossible if enouggh people use freenet.
The gun can be used for bad things too, whats your point? The internet is here, deal with it.
As long as we build alot of useful good sites into freenet, freenet will do fine, when we let the warez and mp3 guys make all the popular sites freenet might be attacked.
So what you have to do is build sites which people want to see besides mp3, porn and warez.