What really bothers me here is that you are taking a single example I used and turning that into the centerpiece of this discussion. You see, I really couldn't care less about this one example. It was to make a point, which you are ignoring, and I still feel it is a fairly valid example.
Whether or not the coffee was 'hotter than she could reasonably expect' is up for debate, and your statement about broken glass is terribly flawed. Coffee is expected to be hot. That's how it is served. How hot is debatable, but it should still be hot. Eggrolls are expected *not* to have broken glass in them. These situations are not even related. However, it is also expected that when you have hot liquid in your hand, you shouldn't spill it on yourself. Whether it's hot, really hot, or 'hotter than she could reasonably expect' is irrelevant. It's simple common sense that if you spill it on yourself, you are going to get burned.
You are also infering a lot of things that I've not said, nor do I believe. I do *not* believe that after the old lady had the coffee spilled she should be kicked in the ass, ignored, and thrown to the wolves. However, she should not expect everyone to immediately take responsibility for her spill.
But, again, how everyone else reacts, and who does and doesn't help her, isn't the topic of my post or this discussion.
True, but you completely miss the point
on
Why Kids Kill
·
· Score: 1
I don't think anyone will deny that those two kids are responsible for killing all those people, but that isn't the point here.
Actually, I don't think I miss the point. In fact, what you are stating is much the point I was trying to get across. I think I just wasn't clear enough on it and you misunderstood me.
You see, we can hold them responsible for their actions, and that is the point. What we need to *not* do is shift the responsibility to everything and everyone else. It should be left simply as, "These people did something really really bad." Instead of saying it was because of the music they listened to, or the TV/Movies they watch, or the clothes they wear.
You say that you don't think anyone will deny that those kids are responsible, but that's exactly what is happening.
Calls for more personal responsiblity don't mean anything because the killers killed themselves. You can't hold someone accountable if they want to die. The appropriate question is, what made them want to do it, not who is responsible for it.
It still does mean something. It means that instead of blaming everything else that's more convenient, we face the reality that sometimes people do things that are really bad. Most people don't want to believe that other humans are capable of such horrible things, so they seek to find something to blame instead of the people responsible.
Yeah, but a long trench coat IS handy for concealing weapons. ..
It's not a big deal though, and it depends on what you are trying to conceal. I could conceal a pistol in any coat as well as in a long trench coat, and I could conceal just about anything I wanted to easier in a book back or gym bag than a long trench coat.
If someone wants to sneak something in to somewhere, they are going to do it. Nothing short of forcing them to come in naked will stop them. Whether they are wearing a long trench coat, or a smaller jacket, or carrying a book bag, it's all fairly irrelevant.
The #1 sickening thing about the whole McDonald's coffee hype is how it distracts from the facts. I suppose you just glibly believed whatever it was the mass media told you about that McDonald's case didn't you? Why do you expect anyone else to behave differently when it comes to the hacker culture (or whatever you want to call it today)?
In fact, I actually am fairly familiar with the McDonald's Coffee case. And no, I don't just 'glibly believe everything the mass media told me' and I'm somewhat annoyed that you would make that statement based on a single meaningless example.
However, I'm not posting here to argue one single example. You see, that was just one of many examples that I chose for the sole reason of making a point. Instead of reading my post for it's meaning, you picked out a single example I used and focused on that.
Regardless of anything else, she did spill coffee on herself, and then expect someone else to 'fix it'. We could debate endlessly on whether or not it's her fault for spilling it, or McD's for serving her hot coffee too hot, but it doesn't matter. The point is responsibility. Try rereading my post and skip this one example, then see what you think about it.
I'm sorry, but this pisses me off. Do you know anything at all about the case to which you refer? I doubt it. The woman wasn't holding the cup between her legs, it was in her hand. The bottom of the cup dropped out and spilled the coffee on her lap.
Actually, yes, I do know a little about it, and I'm not refering to the first stories that went around. However, as I have heard it, repeatedly, it *was* between her legs, and it spilled. I have never heard anything at all about the bottom dropping out of the cup.
McDonalds had gotten multiple complaints that the coffee was served too hot (~300F, I believe!) and that the cups couldn't take that temperature safely.
Actually, I'm positive it wasn't that hot. 300F is well above boiling, and *no one* servers anything that hot. As I recall, it was around 180F, which is very hot, but not entirely unreasonably so.
The coffee was so hot she suffered 1 degree burns all over her lap.
Actually, I believe she suffered first and second degree burns.
She initially just wanted McDonalds to pay her medical bills, after she was told that there had been many similar complaints about the heat of the coffee and the McDonalds had ignored them.
Again, I have never before heard anything anywhere about the bottom of the cup dropping out, and I'm sure it wasn't 300F degrees. As the bottom didn't fall out, she spilled it on herself. If I were to spill hot coffee on myself, I would not be suing over it. I would accept that it happened, and move on.
McDonalds refused, so she took them to court. A jury slapped McDonalds with a huge punative damage fee,because McDonalds tried to try the woman in the press. This "urban myth" about it being her fault is bullshit.
No, I don't think so. If she spilled the coffee, she should live with that. And while I'm very glad that the huge punitive damages were later revoked by an appeal, the simple fact that she was originally awarded some 2+ million dollars shows my point quite clearly.
Regardless of this one single example and whether or not I, your, or anyone else has the facts exactly right, you've manged to miss the main point of my post. I'm not interested in arguing a single case as much as I am making a point.
The problem with our society today is that no one is willing to take responsibility for their own actions. It's become the accepted thing to shift all blame to something or someone else for anything that we do wrong.
"I just spilled hot coffee on my lap. But, wait, it's not my fault that I was driving around with hot coffee in my crotch and it spilled, it's the place who sold it to me, because they sold it hot."
"Well, yes, I went out and laid down in the middle of the street, and for some amazingly unbelievable reason, I didn't realise I was going to get run over by a car. It wasn't my fault, it was because I saw it in a movie."
"Yes, I went out and shot 10 people, but it wasn't my fault. It was because when I was 6 years old, my daddy looked at me wrong and made me feel uncomfortable. You might even say he sexually abused me. It's his fault."
"My kid committed suicide, and it's all the fault of that music. My kid was a happy, intelligent, nice boy, and would never do something like this on his own. It's all because of that music he was listening to. That rock music should all be banned."
"Yeah, I killed some people, but it's because of the TV, movies, and video games that I watch. Sure, 100 million Americans and millions more people around the world are able to watch these same TV shows, movies, and video games for hours and hours more than I have, and they are able to live in society without killing people just fine, but it's not my fault. It was the violent imagery I've been subjected to all my life."
It's kind of interesting, isn't it? A little bit of a central theme running through there? Instead of people just standing up and saying, "Okay, yes, I screwed up. I'm sorry." They all have to have an excuse, a reason, a childhood event, or an influence that somehow has managed to cause all of their problems, and drive them into doing what they do.
And along with this basic and simple societal defect, we have the media. The media who is always after the sensational story, and who greatly aids in people's desire to not take responsibility for their actions. Thanks to them, we have schools banning Doom, trench coats, and all kinds of other things.
This is just stupid. I've worn a large long black duster, very similar to a trench coat, for years now. Does this mean that all of a sudden I'm going to freak and kill a bunch of people? Hell no, it doesn't. You see, it's not the coat, the music, the movies, the TV, or anything else like that that causes these types of things. It's simply the people who do it that are the problem.
You see, a normal person can play doom, wear trench coats, watch violent TV and movies, and do.....nothing. Because they're normal well adjusted kids who realise that killing people is, um, wrong? The people who do this kind of thing are people with severe emotional and psychological problems. Otherwise, no matter what music, movies, games, or coats they enjoy, they would know better.
"Man's stupidity is eclipsed only by his ability to deny his own stupidity."
I liked this book. In fact, I was planning to sit down and review it myself next week, I liked it so much.
'The Practice of Programming' has found itself a spot next to my computer, right next to K&R's 'The C Programming Language, Second Edition'. I think this is one of the best books a programmer could read, especially someone with limited experience.
Ideally, it should be read by all college seniors who are working towards a computer science degree. It is intended for 'younger' programmers, meaning people with fewer than 2-3 years of experience. If you have more than 3 years of programming experience, most of what is covered in this book will likely already be familiar to you. It also does assume a pretty good knowledge of programming over all, so I wouldn't recommend reading this until you've gotten at least a few heavy programming classes under your belt.
Regardless of you skill level though, you don't want to miss this book. The topics it covers include a number of things that are not often well covered, or sometimes not covered at all, in college programming classes. The book picks up where the classes leave off, and gives you a good dose of real world information.
It's kind of like having a mentor at your side, ready to pass on some of his wealth of experience and knowledge. A lot of what is in this book is the type of thing that seems so obvious once you are told, but that you often don't actually pick up for years.
To sum it all up, anyone with less than 3 years of programming experience would benefit greatly from this book. Anyone with more might still want to check it out, as a refresher or even just an interesting read. And personally, I'd like to see it made mandatory reading for seniors in college working towards CS degrees.;-)
This is perhaps a little cheesy, but I'd like to post a thank you to Rob. Ever since I first found slashdot way back, I've been hooked. It really is a great idea, and it allows me to keep up with the industry news easily and quickly.
As if that wasn't enough, your new features and customizability is truly amazing. Nowhere on the web do I know of sites that cater to the users so much, and allow such extensive personalization. I look at this site as a model for what a great user oriented web site should aspire to be.
Lastly, I just wanted to say that I think your new moderator implementation is an excellent idea. It spreads things out enough that it should keep abuse to a minimum, and allows a much wider range and type of people to be able to help out. In a way, it allows us to give back a little and try to make Slashdot the best site we can.
Thanks for creating one of the best sites on the internet, and keep up the great work. Don't ever let anyone get you down, for every person who complains, there are a thousand of us out here who appreciate what you've done more than you can know.
This article has actually been posted here on Slashdot before, and was originally written something like a month or more ago.
However, it is as true now as it was then, and perhaps even more so, with the 2.2.x kernel release. Even if it's not new news, it being posted on the front of MSNBC's tech section is new. And very, very good. Linux is the way of the future.
-- Toph
"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." - Gandhi
First of all, I seriously doubt anyone would mistake "Toys 'R' Gus" with "Toys 'R' Us". That is a rather distinct difference.
Someone mentioned that he would never have thought it up without having seen Toys 'R' Us, but I disagree. With online talk as it is, many words are abreviated if they have the same pronunciation as a letter. Just hang out on IRC for an hour, and count how many times you see 'how r u?' Considering that, Replacing 'are' with an 'r' isn't that special.
On another note, the guy's been running this site for 5 years now, from the sound of the article. And now, after 5 years, it's suddenly an infringement on their trademark?
Also, I fail to see how this really in any way affects them. I don't care what anyone says, no one is going to mistake his site for a Toys 'R' Us site. It's a catchy name, he's been using it, let him keep using it. If every part of a company's name is reserved for their use only, we are going to have a whole lot of trademark issues real soon.
"What? No, you can't use MicroSystems. The 'Micro' is an infringement on MicroSoft's trademark."
Slashdot Mirror
What really bothers me here is that you are taking a single example I used and turning that into the centerpiece of this discussion. You see, I really couldn't care less about this one example. It was to make a point, which you are ignoring, and I still feel it is a fairly valid example.
Whether or not the coffee was 'hotter than she could reasonably expect' is up for debate, and your statement about broken glass is terribly flawed. Coffee is expected to be hot. That's how it is served. How hot is debatable, but it should still be hot. Eggrolls are expected *not* to have broken glass in them. These situations are not even related. However, it is also expected that when you have hot liquid in your hand, you shouldn't spill it on yourself. Whether it's hot, really hot, or 'hotter than she could reasonably expect' is irrelevant. It's simple common sense that if you spill it on yourself, you are going to get burned.
You are also infering a lot of things that I've not said, nor do I believe. I do *not* believe that after the old lady had the coffee spilled she should be kicked in the ass, ignored, and thrown to the wolves. However, she should not expect everyone to immediately take responsibility for her spill.
But, again, how everyone else reacts, and who does and doesn't help her, isn't the topic of my post or this discussion.
I don't think anyone will deny that those two kids are responsible for killing all those people, but that isn't the point here.
Actually, I don't think I miss the point. In fact, what you are stating is much the point I was trying to get across. I think I just wasn't clear enough on it and you misunderstood me.
You see, we can hold them responsible for their actions, and that is the point. What we need to *not* do is shift the responsibility to everything and everyone else. It should be left simply as, "These people did something really really bad." Instead of saying it was because of the music they listened to, or the TV/Movies they watch, or the clothes they wear.
You say that you don't think anyone will deny that those kids are responsible, but that's exactly what is happening.
Calls for more personal responsiblity don't mean anything because the killers killed themselves. You can't hold someone accountable if they want to die. The appropriate question is, what made them want to do it, not who is responsible for it.
It still does mean something. It means that instead of blaming everything else that's more convenient, we face the reality that sometimes people do things that are really bad. Most people don't want to believe that other humans are capable of such horrible things, so they seek to find something to blame instead of the people responsible.
Yeah, but a long trench coat IS handy for concealing weapons. . .
It's not a big deal though, and it depends on what you are trying to conceal. I could conceal a pistol in any coat as well as in a long trench coat, and I could conceal just about anything I wanted to easier in a book back or gym bag than a long trench coat.
If someone wants to sneak something in to somewhere, they are going to do it. Nothing short of forcing them to come in naked will stop them. Whether they are wearing a long trench coat, or a smaller jacket, or carrying a book bag, it's all fairly irrelevant.
The #1 sickening thing about the whole McDonald's coffee hype is how it distracts from the facts. I suppose you just glibly believed whatever it was the mass media told you about that McDonald's case didn't you? Why do you expect anyone else to behave differently when it comes to the hacker culture (or whatever you want to call it today)?
In fact, I actually am fairly familiar with the McDonald's Coffee case. And no, I don't just 'glibly believe everything the mass media told me' and I'm somewhat annoyed that you would make that statement based on a single meaningless example.
However, I'm not posting here to argue one single example. You see, that was just one of many examples that I chose for the sole reason of making a point. Instead of reading my post for it's meaning, you picked out a single example I used and focused on that.
Regardless of anything else, she did spill coffee on herself, and then expect someone else to 'fix it'. We could debate endlessly on whether or not it's her fault for spilling it, or McD's for serving her hot coffee too hot, but it doesn't matter. The point is responsibility. Try rereading my post and skip this one example, then see what you think about it.
I'm sorry, but this pisses me off. Do you know anything at all about the case to which you refer? I doubt it. The woman wasn't holding the cup between her legs, it was in her hand. The bottom of the cup dropped out and spilled the coffee on her lap.
Actually, yes, I do know a little about it, and I'm not refering to the first stories that went around. However, as I have heard it, repeatedly, it *was* between her legs, and it spilled. I have never heard anything at all about the bottom dropping out of the cup.
McDonalds had gotten multiple complaints that the coffee was served too hot (~300F, I believe!) and that the cups couldn't take that temperature safely.
Actually, I'm positive it wasn't that hot. 300F is well above boiling, and *no one* servers anything that hot. As I recall, it was around 180F, which is very hot, but not entirely unreasonably so.
The coffee was so hot she suffered 1 degree burns all over her lap.
Actually, I believe she suffered first and second degree burns.
She initially just wanted McDonalds to pay her medical bills, after she was told that there had been many similar complaints about the heat of the coffee and the McDonalds had ignored them.
Again, I have never before heard anything anywhere about the bottom of the cup dropping out, and I'm sure it wasn't 300F degrees. As the bottom didn't fall out, she spilled it on herself. If I were to spill hot coffee on myself, I would not be suing over it. I would accept that it happened, and move on.
McDonalds refused, so she took them to court. A jury slapped McDonalds with a huge punative damage fee,because McDonalds tried to try the woman in the press. This "urban myth" about it being her fault is bullshit.
No, I don't think so. If she spilled the coffee, she should live with that. And while I'm very glad that the huge punitive damages were later revoked by an appeal, the simple fact that she was originally awarded some 2+ million dollars shows my point quite clearly.
Regardless of this one single example and whether or not I, your, or anyone else has the facts exactly right, you've manged to miss the main point of my post. I'm not interested in arguing a single case as much as I am making a point.
The problem with our society today is that no one is willing to take responsibility for their own actions. It's become the accepted thing to shift all blame to something or someone else for anything that we do wrong.
"I just spilled hot coffee on my lap. But, wait, it's not my fault that I was driving around with hot coffee in my crotch and it spilled, it's the place who sold it to me, because they sold it hot."
"Well, yes, I went out and laid down in the middle of the street, and for some amazingly unbelievable reason, I didn't realise I was going to get run over by a car. It wasn't my fault, it was because I saw it in a movie."
"Yes, I went out and shot 10 people, but it wasn't my fault. It was because when I was 6 years old, my daddy looked at me wrong and made me feel uncomfortable. You might even say he sexually abused me. It's his fault."
"My kid committed suicide, and it's all the fault of that music. My kid was a happy, intelligent, nice boy, and would never do something like this on his own. It's all because of that music he was listening to. That rock music should all be banned."
"Yeah, I killed some people, but it's because of the TV, movies, and video games that I watch. Sure, 100 million Americans and millions more people around the world are able to watch these same TV shows, movies, and video games for hours and hours more than I have, and they are able to live in society without killing people just fine, but it's not my fault. It was the violent imagery I've been subjected to all my life."
It's kind of interesting, isn't it? A little bit of a central theme running through there? Instead of people just standing up and saying, "Okay, yes, I screwed up. I'm sorry." They all have to have an excuse, a reason, a childhood event, or an influence that somehow has managed to cause all of their problems, and drive them into doing what they do.
And along with this basic and simple societal defect, we have the media. The media who is always after the sensational story, and who greatly aids in people's desire to not take responsibility for their actions. Thanks to them, we have schools banning Doom, trench coats, and all kinds of other things.
This is just stupid. I've worn a large long black duster, very similar to a trench coat, for years now. Does this mean that all of a sudden I'm going to freak and kill a bunch of people? Hell no, it doesn't. You see, it's not the coat, the music, the movies, the TV, or anything else like that that causes these types of things. It's simply the people who do it that are the problem.
You see, a normal person can play doom, wear trench coats, watch violent TV and movies, and do.....nothing. Because they're normal well adjusted kids who realise that killing people is, um, wrong? The people who do this kind of thing are people with severe emotional and psychological problems. Otherwise, no matter what music, movies, games, or coats they enjoy, they would know better.
"Man's stupidity is eclipsed only by his ability to deny his own stupidity."
I liked this book. In fact, I was planning to sit down and review it myself next week, I liked it so much.
;-)
'The Practice of Programming' has found itself a spot next to my computer, right next to K&R's 'The C Programming Language, Second Edition'. I think this is one of the best books a programmer could read, especially someone with limited experience.
Ideally, it should be read by all college seniors who are working towards a computer science degree. It is intended for 'younger' programmers, meaning people with fewer than 2-3 years of experience. If you have more than 3 years of programming experience, most of what is covered in this book will likely already be familiar to you. It also does assume a pretty good knowledge of programming over all, so I wouldn't recommend reading this until you've gotten at least a few heavy programming classes under your belt.
Regardless of you skill level though, you don't want to miss this book. The topics it covers include a number of things that are not often well covered, or sometimes not covered at all, in college programming classes. The book picks up where the classes leave off, and gives you a good dose of real world information.
It's kind of like having a mentor at your side, ready to pass on some of his wealth of experience and knowledge. A lot of what is in this book is the type of thing that seems so obvious once you are told, but that you often don't actually pick up for years.
To sum it all up, anyone with less than 3 years of programming experience would benefit greatly from this book. Anyone with more might still want to check it out, as a refresher or even just an interesting read. And personally, I'd like to see it made mandatory reading for seniors in college working towards CS degrees.
This is perhaps a little cheesy, but I'd like to post a thank you to Rob. Ever since I first found slashdot way back, I've been hooked. It really is a great idea, and it allows me to keep up with the industry news easily and quickly.
As if that wasn't enough, your new features and customizability is truly amazing. Nowhere on the web do I know of sites that cater to the users so much, and allow such extensive personalization. I look at this site as a model for what a great user oriented web site should aspire to be.
Lastly, I just wanted to say that I think your new moderator implementation is an excellent idea. It spreads things out enough that it should keep abuse to a minimum, and allows a much wider range and type of people to be able to help out. In a way, it allows us to give back a little and try to make Slashdot the best site we can.
Thanks for creating one of the best sites on the internet, and keep up the great work. Don't ever let anyone get you down, for every person who complains, there are a thousand of us out here who appreciate what you've done more than you can know.
This article has actually been posted here on Slashdot before, and was originally written something like a month or more ago.
However, it is as true now as it was then, and perhaps even more so, with the 2.2.x kernel release. Even if it's not new news, it being posted on the front of MSNBC's tech section is new. And very, very good. Linux is the way of the future.
-- Toph
"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you. Then you win." - Gandhi
I just came across this domain name, and considering the nature of this thread of discussion, I found it very amusing. ;-)
TrademarksRUs.com
Toph
First of all, I seriously doubt anyone would mistake "Toys 'R' Gus" with "Toys 'R' Us". That is a rather distinct difference.
Someone mentioned that he would never have thought it up without having seen Toys 'R' Us, but I disagree. With online talk as it is, many words are abreviated if they have the same pronunciation as a letter. Just hang out on IRC for an hour, and count how many times you see 'how r u?' Considering that, Replacing 'are' with an 'r' isn't that special.
On another note, the guy's been running this site for 5 years now, from the sound of the article. And now, after 5 years, it's suddenly an infringement on their trademark?
Also, I fail to see how this really in any way affects them. I don't care what anyone says, no one is going to mistake his site for a Toys 'R' Us site. It's a catchy name, he's been using it, let him keep using it. If every part of a company's name is reserved for their use only, we are going to have a whole lot of trademark issues real soon.
"What? No, you can't use MicroSystems. The 'Micro' is an infringement on MicroSoft's trademark."
Toph