Well you display all the hallmarks of religious zealots who severely judge those with whom they disagree with rude impatience. Which is why I say they are similar. You do see the irony of all this right? Yea, I didn't think so...
It's Interesting that the approval by a bureaucratic agency in a single nation is all that's required to make significant use of the finite orbit of all the World.
Actually, the FCC is simply approving the frequencies the satellites use while over US territory. They don't care about how many satellites or what orbits these satellites use. They will require additional approvals from the governments from other countries to operate over their territory.
This is basically a green light for frequency coordination, that Space X has the right to transmit from space on a set of frequencies, while flying over the USA.
But hey, that's what you where after wasn't it, missing my point.. Oh? You where making fun eh?
If that's what you tried to do, you just proved my primary point is true, in claiming to be the holder of "absolute truth" you've done the same logical thing as those you make fun of have done. Which again, WOOSH only bigger this time.
Where I understand the argument you are making, logically if you start with assumptions and doggedly try to construct ways the evidence supports that assumption as a scientists, are you not doing the same thing as religious proponents? I think they are eerily similar in appearance from the outside observer.
This whole discussion rapidly become a question philosophy does it not? Which precludes your statement actually being provably true, but just an assumption, does it not?
Yeah, there's no physical evidence that there was ever global flooding.
That's not exactly true, there IS evidence that is consistent with this theory of a global flood and evidence that is inconsistent with the idea. However, what's missing is overwhelming evidence to prove it or consensus among researchers that it happened.
Consensus is that it didn't happen.
However, given that nobody was there to witnesses what did or didn't happen, we are left with little actual proof either way, just the evidence and all the possible ways to explain how it fits into the theory of choice. Some see it one way, others another, so the debate will rage long after I'm gone. Science by consensus hasn't been historically always right, though one would be thought a fool to ignore it.
You got modded as funny but this is actually true. Pretty stupid of them to help us out like this, realtime conditions like this are more realistic and only help NATO improve.
Maybe their point was to asses NATO's abilities in a GPS denied environment? What still worked? What didn't? Who lost their way? Where there communications disruptions (GPS is used as a time source you know)? Disrupting GPS in the area might generate some interesting information for war planners.
Or, maybe it was just to be annoying...
My vote is on the latter. Ivan has been kind of aggressive and harassing of late with dangerous intercepts of our aircraft and ships operating in or above international waters. I think it was just another way to annoy NATO for geopolitical reasons.
Ha. Actually I'm a little surprised they divulged they had that capability.
I'm not in the least bit surprised that they have this ability, or that they are not trying to hide it. Everybody knows GPS is very easy to disrupt.
I am a little surprised that they decided to up the realism of our exercise and actually do it. But they are obviously turning up the heat and poking at the USA a bit harder of late. I suppose they may be trying to figure out what effect their jamming activities have on our operational responses, what works, what doesn't, but their primary motive likely is just to annoy NATO.
Don't be worried, I'm very sure we are able to operate in such electronic warfare environments. GPS is a convince, but it is hardly the only way to get around or locate friends and foes on the battlefield. We are prepared to work without GPS, as well as deny others the use of GPS signals by skewing location accuracy to suit our purposes.
Oh yes... I've used the stuff early in my career. It was part of the avionics package on a military fighter aircraft I was an engineer on. The amazing part was that stuff was nearly bullet proof, almost literally. I remember it was part of the flight data computer and provided a poor man's flight data recorder of sorts. A couple of times we had to read the contents from crashed aircraft to try and figure out what happened when the pilot was unfortunately unavailable to tell us what happened.
I still remember having to visually inspect the stuff under a microscope to make sure the cores where not broken before getting out the test equipment to read the card's contents. Talk about mind numbing work.. But we could get a few seconds of flight data and that often was invaluable to determine why things went wrong.
That's why this new storage technique could bring the two together.
I doubt it's fast enough for even being used as disk space, at least compared to flash. Unless they have some novel way to read the magnetic fields, this kind of indirect sensing is pretty time consuming. The way you detect a magnetic field is by creating one of your own by passing a current past the cell you are trying to read. This requires you to carefully control the "read" pulse and watch for tiny variances in the rise and/or fall times. This kind of thing is slow, at least it's slower than just looking at the voltage level of a memory cell. Writing is similar, only likely even slower, because you have to actually force the material's magnetic spin to the desired direction using even larger currents to produce an opposite magnetic field.
I suppose you could make all this parallel and get though put that way, but all this pulse generation is going to take lots of power if you are doing hundreds of thousands bits wide to make up for the latency..
No, I don't see this stuff being used as cache. It will be too slow. Maybe for things that don't change often or require to maintain their content when powered off, but not cache.
... in the same way that fractional-step UV photolithography sounds like an improvement on a hammer and chisel.
Maybe, but it's basically a smaller version of the toroid core memory we knew and loved 40 years ago (and yes, I've actually used the stuff). I remember looking at it though a microscope trying to figure out how they actually built this stuff that small?
I'd call it roughly the same kind of advance we made from transistors to VLIS chip design.. Only without the speed increase.:)
Power consumption being lower, not requiring power to maintain it's memory, are all great, but if reading the data takes too much longer than DRAM or Flash, it's all more interesting than actually practical. Maybe in applications where core memory once was the choice, or as a backing store for DRAM for things like RAID controllers when the power fails or controllers where it would be nice to remember small amounts of stuff over long power off cycles. Maybe in space applications, where long term temperature and radiation stable storage without having to consume power is more important than speed?
I'm just not seeing the killer application here...
Problem is, fiber on the ground is faster as the distance is shorter.
Only true in general for relatively short trips with fixed destinations.
Which is basically what this is. No matter how you slice this, the ground based path will be physically shorter and thus has a latency advantage, even with LEO satellites in the mix.
Unless you live in some remote place that depends on geo-stationary satellites for internet, you are better off going along the ground, at least where latency is concerned.
A) These are not geo-stationary satellites SpaceX is proposing. Geostationary orbit is about 35,700km away versus the 1200km being proposed here. That difference is very significant. B) Ground is only faster in some use cases but not all and the longer the transmission the less advantage it has.
I never labored under the illusion that we where discussing geo-stationary orbits. But as you point out, the distance adds huge amounts of latency.
As I see this, the LEO data route has to go 1200km twice to get next door, so you have to gain 2400km's worth of latency somehow over the ground based system. I don't think the variance of the speed of light in the different mediums is going to get you between Chicago and New York faster over a LEO link. The physics favor the surface route, though in some cases logistics and geography may create significant delays by adding distance.
But my point here is that if you are looking at latency, the shortest route unusually wins and LEO orbits add quite a bit of distance.
The distances among all the end-to-end points, be they game or gross margin, is a constant, and does not vary as does the speed of light in a medium, be it glass, copper, or over the air.
Of those, over the air is much faster.
The speed of light though glass (fiber) vrs a vacuum is almost a rounding error, you don't see it until you get to 3 significant digits. I think the difference in distance is going to vary at about 2 significant digits, which tell me the surface fiber network will have the latency advantage.
Actually... The way this works now is you buy server space adjacent to the exchange and configure and run your trading platform software from there. That way your latency is as low as possible as your algorithms are running in the next room. Latency to the human controller doesn't really matter anyway as the trades are triggered by software anyway.
Surfaced based communication channels are soooo yesterday.
Is it? Iridium's problem was lack of customers who needed the service and had money to pay for it. Prices where so high that few people in areas that didn't have cellular service already could afford to pay the subscription fees. Their business model wasn't viable.
In this case, there is actually a different business model and possible paying customers who actually have money and a need for internet service. Are there enough of them who have enough money to make this viable? Maybe... Given Musk's access to exceptionally low cost launch rates, this might just work out this time. I'd not bet on it either way myself.
Problem is, fiber on the ground is faster as the distance is shorter. Heck, even microwave links would be faster end to end. Unless you live in some remote place that depends on geo-stationary satellites for internet, you are better off going along the ground, at least where latency is concerned.
A kilogram produces 9.81 Newtons of force... It weighs 1 Kilogram at normal conditions at sea level. (Force and Weight are the same concept for most observed conditions.. Which is my point. If you measure it in Newtons, pounds, kilograms, carrots, doesn't matter. Yes, they are not the same thing, but only if you vary the acceleration in some way.)
Yep.. You can measure the acceleration of any sized mass to sufficient accuracy by dropping it and measuring it's speed. The easy way to do this is to have a spark generator that creates a regularly timed arc from a point of a falling pointed mass to a plate. You put a sheet of paper between the falling weight and the plate and the arc creates little burn marks on the paper. You measure the distances between the marks to calculate the speed of the falling mass at various points along the paper. If you have enough distance and a fast enough period between arcs you can calculate the acceleration of gravity with pretty good precision, even without using a vacuum chamber.
Well, it all depends on just how accurate you need to be. If you are selling fruit, then calibrating your scale with a liter of tap water at room temperature is likely good enough. If you are weighing gold dust, you may need something a bit more accurate.
When we are measuring things, being exact is not possible regardless of how you measure. One needs to know what the acceptable accuracy is for the problem at hand and not waste time and effort on unnecessary precision.
A kilogram is not a measure of weight. It is a measure of mass. So it's not the weight of 1 liter of water, it is the mass of 1l of water.
Most folks don't make the distinction between mass and weight because in their experience on the earth's surface, they are always the same, or at least close enough that the weighting equipment they have cannot tell the difference. A Kilogram mass weighs a Kilogram under normal conditions experienced by people.
How would you use a device like this to determine the mass if you don't know the exact gravitational constant at the specific location you are at?
Or is there a way to determine it that does not rely on mass?
As a matter of fact there is. Drop something in a vacuum and measure the acceleration by measuring it's speed at a known distance.
Moore came from the 'church lady wing', morons who vote as they are told. Big problem in states like Alabama.
LOL.. Nope... Moore came by default as the second choice candidate. As I recall there where three major candidates in the primary, two who where right of Roy and drew more total votes between them than Cowboy Roy who rode his horse to the polls. All the little old church ladies voted for the clean cut right wingers, not Judge Roy Moore with his horse.
The sad part about all this was that Roy got Borked/Kavanaughed by the democrats who threw literally everything they had including the kitchen sink and nearly lost even with the creepy teenage girls dating stories that got tossed out without much actual evidence over his getting tossed out of the local mall some 30 years ago... I always wondered why, after multiple state wide elections which Moore barely won in the past, this all just happened to come up a month before election day? Yea, it was a setup, given how quickly it got dropped...
Voting history and registration should be private.
Bonus captcha: "flagged"
Why? As long as we maintain that how they voted is secret, publish this information.
I think who voted is generally public record for a reason. Knowing who's registered and who cast a ballot has the effect of making vote fraud more obvious and thus more risky for those who would try it. It also allows independent public auditing of total votes cast vrs total votes counted, which tells us something about how accurate the count is, that it's not been fudged.
The deterrent effect it has on vote fraud is worth it to me.
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Thanks for helping to make my point.
How so?
Well you display all the hallmarks of religious zealots who severely judge those with whom they disagree with rude impatience. Which is why I say they are similar. You do see the irony of all this right? Yea, I didn't think so...
It's Interesting that the approval by a bureaucratic agency in a single nation is all that's required to make significant use of the finite orbit of all the World.
Actually, the FCC is simply approving the frequencies the satellites use while over US territory. They don't care about how many satellites or what orbits these satellites use. They will require additional approvals from the governments from other countries to operate over their territory.
This is basically a green light for frequency coordination, that Space X has the right to transmit from space on a set of frequencies, while flying over the USA.
Woosh!
But hey, that's what you where after wasn't it, missing my point.. Oh? You where making fun eh?
If that's what you tried to do, you just proved my primary point is true, in claiming to be the holder of "absolute truth" you've done the same logical thing as those you make fun of have done. Which again, WOOSH only bigger this time.
That's a description of religion, not science.
Is it really?
Where I understand the argument you are making, logically if you start with assumptions and doggedly try to construct ways the evidence supports that assumption as a scientists, are you not doing the same thing as religious proponents? I think they are eerily similar in appearance from the outside observer.
This whole discussion rapidly become a question philosophy does it not? Which precludes your statement actually being provably true, but just an assumption, does it not?
Yeah, there's no physical evidence that there was ever global flooding.
That's not exactly true, there IS evidence that is consistent with this theory of a global flood and evidence that is inconsistent with the idea. However, what's missing is overwhelming evidence to prove it or consensus among researchers that it happened.
Consensus is that it didn't happen.
However, given that nobody was there to witnesses what did or didn't happen, we are left with little actual proof either way, just the evidence and all the possible ways to explain how it fits into the theory of choice. Some see it one way, others another, so the debate will rage long after I'm gone. Science by consensus hasn't been historically always right, though one would be thought a fool to ignore it.
You got modded as funny but this is actually true. Pretty stupid of them to help us out like this, realtime conditions like this are more realistic and only help NATO improve.
Maybe their point was to asses NATO's abilities in a GPS denied environment? What still worked? What didn't? Who lost their way? Where there communications disruptions (GPS is used as a time source you know)? Disrupting GPS in the area might generate some interesting information for war planners.
Or, maybe it was just to be annoying...
My vote is on the latter. Ivan has been kind of aggressive and harassing of late with dangerous intercepts of our aircraft and ships operating in or above international waters. I think it was just another way to annoy NATO for geopolitical reasons.
Ha. Actually I'm a little surprised they divulged they had that capability.
I'm not in the least bit surprised that they have this ability, or that they are not trying to hide it. Everybody knows GPS is very easy to disrupt.
I am a little surprised that they decided to up the realism of our exercise and actually do it. But they are obviously turning up the heat and poking at the USA a bit harder of late. I suppose they may be trying to figure out what effect their jamming activities have on our operational responses, what works, what doesn't, but their primary motive likely is just to annoy NATO.
Don't be worried, I'm very sure we are able to operate in such electronic warfare environments. GPS is a convince, but it is hardly the only way to get around or locate friends and foes on the battlefield. We are prepared to work without GPS, as well as deny others the use of GPS signals by skewing location accuracy to suit our purposes.
Anyone remember magnetic core memory?
Oh yes... I've used the stuff early in my career. It was part of the avionics package on a military fighter aircraft I was an engineer on. The amazing part was that stuff was nearly bullet proof, almost literally. I remember it was part of the flight data computer and provided a poor man's flight data recorder of sorts. A couple of times we had to read the contents from crashed aircraft to try and figure out what happened when the pilot was unfortunately unavailable to tell us what happened.
I still remember having to visually inspect the stuff under a microscope to make sure the cores where not broken before getting out the test equipment to read the card's contents. Talk about mind numbing work.. But we could get a few seconds of flight data and that often was invaluable to determine why things went wrong.
That's why this new storage technique could bring the two together.
I doubt it's fast enough for even being used as disk space, at least compared to flash. Unless they have some novel way to read the magnetic fields, this kind of indirect sensing is pretty time consuming. The way you detect a magnetic field is by creating one of your own by passing a current past the cell you are trying to read. This requires you to carefully control the "read" pulse and watch for tiny variances in the rise and/or fall times. This kind of thing is slow, at least it's slower than just looking at the voltage level of a memory cell. Writing is similar, only likely even slower, because you have to actually force the material's magnetic spin to the desired direction using even larger currents to produce an opposite magnetic field.
I suppose you could make all this parallel and get though put that way, but all this pulse generation is going to take lots of power if you are doing hundreds of thousands bits wide to make up for the latency..
No, I don't see this stuff being used as cache. It will be too slow. Maybe for things that don't change often or require to maintain their content when powered off, but not cache.
Sounds like an improvement on core memory..
... in the same way that fractional-step UV photolithography sounds like an improvement on a hammer and chisel.
Maybe, but it's basically a smaller version of the toroid core memory we knew and loved 40 years ago (and yes, I've actually used the stuff). I remember looking at it though a microscope trying to figure out how they actually built this stuff that small?
I'd call it roughly the same kind of advance we made from transistors to VLIS chip design.. Only without the speed increase. :)
Power consumption being lower, not requiring power to maintain it's memory, are all great, but if reading the data takes too much longer than DRAM or Flash, it's all more interesting than actually practical. Maybe in applications where core memory once was the choice, or as a backing store for DRAM for things like RAID controllers when the power fails or controllers where it would be nice to remember small amounts of stuff over long power off cycles. Maybe in space applications, where long term temperature and radiation stable storage without having to consume power is more important than speed?
I'm just not seeing the killer application here...
Sounds like an improvement on core memory..
Sorry, that's copper that's 30% slower. Some fiber connections are about 99,7% the speed, plus microwave though air is a rounding error from a vacuum.
So a series of microwave links or fiber still is shorter time wise.
Problem is, fiber on the ground is faster as the distance is shorter.
Only true in general for relatively short trips with fixed destinations.
Which is basically what this is. No matter how you slice this, the ground based path will be physically shorter and thus has a latency advantage, even with LEO satellites in the mix.
Unless you live in some remote place that depends on geo-stationary satellites for internet, you are better off going along the ground, at least where latency is concerned.
A) These are not geo-stationary satellites SpaceX is proposing. Geostationary orbit is about 35,700km away versus the 1200km being proposed here. That difference is very significant. B) Ground is only faster in some use cases but not all and the longer the transmission the less advantage it has.
I never labored under the illusion that we where discussing geo-stationary orbits. But as you point out, the distance adds huge amounts of latency.
As I see this, the LEO data route has to go 1200km twice to get next door, so you have to gain 2400km's worth of latency somehow over the ground based system. I don't think the variance of the speed of light in the different mediums is going to get you between Chicago and New York faster over a LEO link. The physics favor the surface route, though in some cases logistics and geography may create significant delays by adding distance.
But my point here is that if you are looking at latency, the shortest route unusually wins and LEO orbits add quite a bit of distance.
The distances among all the end-to-end points, be they game or gross margin, is a constant, and does not vary as does the speed of light in a medium, be it glass, copper, or over the air.
Of those, over the air is much faster.
The speed of light though glass (fiber) vrs a vacuum is almost a rounding error, you don't see it until you get to 3 significant digits. I think the difference in distance is going to vary at about 2 significant digits, which tell me the surface fiber network will have the latency advantage.
Actually... The way this works now is you buy server space adjacent to the exchange and configure and run your trading platform software from there. That way your latency is as low as possible as your algorithms are running in the next room. Latency to the human controller doesn't really matter anyway as the trades are triggered by software anyway.
Surfaced based communication channels are soooo yesterday.
Iridium et al. Just a bunch of space junk now.
Is it? Iridium's problem was lack of customers who needed the service and had money to pay for it. Prices where so high that few people in areas that didn't have cellular service already could afford to pay the subscription fees. Their business model wasn't viable.
In this case, there is actually a different business model and possible paying customers who actually have money and a need for internet service. Are there enough of them who have enough money to make this viable? Maybe... Given Musk's access to exceptionally low cost launch rates, this might just work out this time. I'd not bet on it either way myself.
Problem is, fiber on the ground is faster as the distance is shorter. Heck, even microwave links would be faster end to end. Unless you live in some remote place that depends on geo-stationary satellites for internet, you are better off going along the ground, at least where latency is concerned.
Apparently Microsoft needs more of them.. Pay up or go to Home!
A kilogram produces 9.81 Newtons of force... It weighs 1 Kilogram at normal conditions at sea level. (Force and Weight are the same concept for most observed conditions.. Which is my point. If you measure it in Newtons, pounds, kilograms, carrots, doesn't matter. Yes, they are not the same thing, but only if you vary the acceleration in some way.)
Yep.. You can measure the acceleration of any sized mass to sufficient accuracy by dropping it and measuring it's speed. The easy way to do this is to have a spark generator that creates a regularly timed arc from a point of a falling pointed mass to a plate. You put a sheet of paper between the falling weight and the plate and the arc creates little burn marks on the paper. You measure the distances between the marks to calculate the speed of the falling mass at various points along the paper. If you have enough distance and a fast enough period between arcs you can calculate the acceleration of gravity with pretty good precision, even without using a vacuum chamber.
Well, it all depends on just how accurate you need to be. If you are selling fruit, then calibrating your scale with a liter of tap water at room temperature is likely good enough. If you are weighing gold dust, you may need something a bit more accurate.
When we are measuring things, being exact is not possible regardless of how you measure. One needs to know what the acceptable accuracy is for the problem at hand and not waste time and effort on unnecessary precision.
A kilogram is not a measure of weight. It is a measure of mass. So it's not the weight of 1 liter of water, it is the mass of 1l of water.
Most folks don't make the distinction between mass and weight because in their experience on the earth's surface, they are always the same, or at least close enough that the weighting equipment they have cannot tell the difference. A Kilogram mass weighs a Kilogram under normal conditions experienced by people.
How would you use a device like this to determine the mass if you don't know the exact gravitational constant at the specific location you are at? Or is there a way to determine it that does not rely on mass?
As a matter of fact there is. Drop something in a vacuum and measure the acceleration by measuring it's speed at a known distance.
Moore came from the 'church lady wing', morons who vote as they are told. Big problem in states like Alabama.
LOL.. Nope... Moore came by default as the second choice candidate. As I recall there where three major candidates in the primary, two who where right of Roy and drew more total votes between them than Cowboy Roy who rode his horse to the polls. All the little old church ladies voted for the clean cut right wingers, not Judge Roy Moore with his horse.
The sad part about all this was that Roy got Borked/Kavanaughed by the democrats who threw literally everything they had including the kitchen sink and nearly lost even with the creepy teenage girls dating stories that got tossed out without much actual evidence over his getting tossed out of the local mall some 30 years ago... I always wondered why, after multiple state wide elections which Moore barely won in the past, this all just happened to come up a month before election day? Yea, it was a setup, given how quickly it got dropped...
Voting history and registration should be private.
Bonus captcha: "flagged"
Why? As long as we maintain that how they voted is secret, publish this information.
I think who voted is generally public record for a reason. Knowing who's registered and who cast a ballot has the effect of making vote fraud more obvious and thus more risky for those who would try it. It also allows independent public auditing of total votes cast vrs total votes counted, which tells us something about how accurate the count is, that it's not been fudged.
The deterrent effect it has on vote fraud is worth it to me.