OK, I don't agree with SparkyMartin's sarcastic remark, but there is something to it. Man pages are not easy to read. Just saying "Man Pages" is like saying RTFM! Thats very uncool. They are geared at someone who needs to read between the lines. Mainly because they are written from the programmers perspective. We programmers are always doing those kinda pesky things.:) ("Waddya mean you dont know what a malloc error is?")
Its very difficult to realize that just becuase we(as a geek collective) understand something as second nature that does NOT make it common sense. For example, nothing about a mouse is common sense. Common knowledge maybe. But whenevr you add the knowledge word to anything it insinuates that you have to learn somewhere. For a stupid-simple example, how many people (geek or otherwise) truly know just how handy the right mouse button is in Win32. Heck! It does everything. Does the same in X too! But when you mention it to many people they look at you with that glazed over look in their eyes.
Remember that most people had to learn somewhere or from someone. Even people like myself who are self taught in everything, from programming to OS's need to learn from something.
Isn't that the reason for the concept accepted by *most* of the hacker & linux community. Paying ahead.
It says nothing except one thing, & It says it over and over and over. "Linux is too much for most people to handle" or "Linux is too bountiful for most computer users" sounds like the same point to me:).
However, its right. Linux IS too much for most computer users. Most computer users are barely adept at using a computer. Sooo the more common OS's *need* to be simple for the simple user.
We know this already.
like most media this article is written by a complainer for complainers. I can imagine the article if the opposite of his complaints were true. "LINUX TOO SIMPLE FOR USERS".
Linux is as small and simple as the user allows it to be. More so now than ever IMHO with the recent Helix-Gnome and Nautilus apps.
The problem isnt with the distrobutions. The problem (if its even a problem) is this; Windows (& MacOS 9-) is as good as the programmers (& Marketting cause they have a little TOO much say in what what sometimes) that made it. *nix is as good as the user. It just so happens that in order to use *nix to its best it *help* to be a programmer, or at least be savvy with scripting.
linux is what the person taking care of it wants it to be.
The only thing I can really say to the article is that its missing a bit.
For one this is already a little known but documented theory. It's called the Bie-Field Brown Effect.
Supposedly according to a book called "The Philadelphia experiment: Project Invisibility", a Scientist Thompson Brown (I think thats his name) was actually using this effect to make hovering platforms. It's a little hard to find info on the subject, but the Book contains quite a bit an even states something of a consiracy theory as to *why* you can't find much info on the subject.
Either way books worth reading. Just for the info on the Bie-Field effect.
Yeah your right. The ads WERE VERY LOUD. I know becuase i had to keep turning the TV down when the commercials came on by 4 levels on my tv. Then turn it back up to hear what the show was saying.
And I somehow doubt this is a coincidence.
WHOA! hehehe Those comments are asking for a holy war. Although I DO understand why it feels that way. X is not actually ATTACHED to the OS you dont have to use it. The entire structure of X says as much. Its a 'perfect' client/server model. It just happens that any apps loaded in X close with it.:-D
Although I am concerned why'd you have to kill X just cause NS crashed. I dont see why you wouldnt just kill NS. Not saying your wrong, Maybe Its a had to be there thing.;)
running your applications as Root isnt ( or shouldnt be) a concern. Thats the entire point of having an "abstraction layer" between the kernal and the Application.
You see the results of this in Linux all the time. And even in NT even if a little less reliable. Any one who's had to kill an errant process can vouch for this. Especially if they're running NS 4.7 on Linux;) No way to remember how many times I had to kill the process cause the browser hung. X is another great example of killing a process WITHOUT killing the OS. X crashes. It happens. BUT it does not (YMMV) take the OS/kernal with it! At least it hasnt to me, someone is bound to contest this.
Well, I have to agree. I had really hoped for a newer faster, All singing all dancing Mozilla browser that could compete with IE. However as both a user and a developer I have to choose IE over NS. At least on Win32 platform. As for programming, It's gotten to the point that it hurts to consider developing for NS.:-/
Which bothers me alot cause M$ has refused to port IE to something closer to Linux OTHER than Solaris, which I dont care for, but thats me;-).
It seems that the memory consumption that NS 6 uses is even worse than that of IE5. Which supprised me considering that IE implements the DOM by making all html tags into ActiveX controls, albiet lightweight controls, but still! ActiveX controls are _not_ the most efficient type of objects out there. Although I guess I have to give credit were credits deserved whoever at M$ thought that up deserves a pat on the back it was a neat idea. At least IMHO.
All and all, I'm not so conserned with the Win32 platform as I am for the one true OS (hehe); Linux. Although Mozilla's nightly builds are nice, and I particulary like useing the Galeon browser (uses Mozilla for those who dont know), its very young & very buggy. But still considerably much more effiecient across the spectrum than NS6.
I (personally) was _appalled_ to see that NS6 was just as bloated and hungry (for memory) on my Redhat station as it was for my NT station! The sheer size of the downloaded files disturbed me. OK it really is the all singing all dancing browser i spoke about wanting, and it certainly looks nice, But at what a PRICE! Isnt the *nix philosophy smaller (maybe more pieces) faster, better. Probably paranoia on my part but i get scared for a cultural mind shift because of these type of apps.
But Oh well, enough of my rant i guess. Thats just my 2 cent
Slashdot Mirror
OK, I don't agree with SparkyMartin's sarcastic remark, but there is something to it. Man pages are not easy to read. Just saying "Man Pages" is like saying RTFM! Thats very uncool. They are geared at someone who needs to read between the lines. Mainly because they are written from the programmers perspective. We programmers are always doing those kinda pesky things. :) ("Waddya mean you dont know what a malloc error is?")
Its very difficult to realize that just becuase we(as a geek collective) understand something as second nature that does NOT make it common sense. For example, nothing about a mouse is common sense. Common knowledge maybe. But whenevr you add the knowledge word to anything it insinuates that you have to learn somewhere. For a stupid-simple example, how many people (geek or otherwise) truly know just how handy the right mouse button is in Win32. Heck! It does everything. Does the same in X too! But when you mention it to many people they look at you with that glazed over look in their eyes.
Remember that most people had to learn somewhere or from someone. Even people like myself who are self taught in everything, from programming to OS's need to learn from something.
Isn't that the reason for the concept accepted by *most* of the hacker & linux community. Paying ahead.
It says nothing except one thing, & It says it over and over and over. "Linux is too much for most people to handle" or "Linux is too bountiful for most computer users" sounds like the same point to me :).
However, its right. Linux IS too much for most computer users. Most computer users are barely adept at using a computer. Sooo the more common OS's *need* to be simple for the simple user.
We know this already.
like most media this article is written by a complainer for complainers. I can imagine the article if the opposite of his complaints were true. "LINUX TOO SIMPLE FOR USERS".
Linux is as small and simple as the user allows it to be. More so now than ever IMHO with the recent Helix-Gnome and Nautilus apps.
The problem isnt with the distrobutions. The problem (if its even a problem) is this; Windows (& MacOS 9-) is as good as the programmers (& Marketting cause they have a little TOO much say in what what sometimes) that made it. *nix is as good as the user. It just so happens that in order to use *nix to its best it *help* to be a programmer, or at least be savvy with scripting.
linux is what the person taking care of it wants it to be.
Nuff' said
The only thing I can really say to the article is that its missing a bit. For one this is already a little known but documented theory. It's called the Bie-Field Brown Effect. Supposedly according to a book called "The Philadelphia experiment: Project Invisibility", a Scientist Thompson Brown (I think thats his name) was actually using this effect to make hovering platforms. It's a little hard to find info on the subject, but the Book contains quite a bit an even states something of a consiracy theory as to *why* you can't find much info on the subject. Either way books worth reading. Just for the info on the Bie-Field effect.
Yeah your right. The ads WERE VERY LOUD. I know becuase i had to keep turning the TV down when the commercials came on by 4 levels on my tv. Then turn it back up to hear what the show was saying.
And I somehow doubt this is a coincidence.
WHOA! hehehe Those comments are asking for a holy war. Although I DO understand why it feels that way. X is not actually ATTACHED to the OS you dont have to use it. The entire structure of X says as much. Its a 'perfect' client/server model. It just happens that any apps loaded in X close with it. :-D
;)
Although I am concerned why'd you have to kill X just cause NS crashed. I dont see why you wouldnt just kill NS. Not saying your wrong, Maybe Its a had to be there thing.
running your applications as Root isnt ( or shouldnt be) a concern. Thats the entire point of having an "abstraction layer" between the kernal and the Application.
;) No way to remember how many times I had to kill the process cause the browser hung. X is another great example of killing a process WITHOUT killing the OS. X crashes. It happens. BUT it does not (YMMV) take the OS/kernal with it! At least it hasnt to me, someone is bound to contest this.
You see the results of this in Linux all the time. And even in NT even if a little less reliable. Any one who's had to kill an errant process can vouch for this. Especially if they're running NS 4.7 on Linux
In what sense? I havent noticed anything off hand.
Here Here!!! :-)
Well, I have to agree. I had really hoped for a newer faster, All singing all dancing Mozilla browser that could compete with IE. However as both a user and a developer I have to choose IE over NS. At least on Win32 platform. As for programming, It's gotten to the point that it hurts to consider developing for NS. :-/
Which bothers me alot cause M$ has refused to port IE to something closer to Linux OTHER than Solaris, which I dont care for, but thats me ;-).
It seems that the memory consumption that NS 6 uses is even worse than that of IE5. Which supprised me considering that IE implements the DOM by making all html tags into ActiveX controls, albiet lightweight controls, but still! ActiveX controls are _not_ the most efficient type of objects out there. Although I guess I have to give credit were credits deserved whoever at M$ thought that up deserves a pat on the back it was a neat idea. At least IMHO.
All and all, I'm not so conserned with the Win32 platform as I am for the one true OS (hehe); Linux. Although Mozilla's nightly builds are nice, and I particulary like useing the Galeon browser (uses Mozilla for those who dont know), its very young & very buggy. But still considerably much more effiecient across the spectrum than NS6.
I (personally) was _appalled_ to see that NS6 was just as bloated and hungry (for memory) on my Redhat station as it was for my NT station! The sheer size of the downloaded files disturbed me. OK it really is the all singing all dancing browser i spoke about wanting, and it certainly looks nice, But at what a PRICE! Isnt the *nix philosophy smaller (maybe more pieces) faster, better. Probably paranoia on my part but i get scared for a cultural mind shift because of these type of apps.
But Oh well, enough of my rant i guess. Thats just my 2 cent