I'm surprised it's gotten to 4. Usually any post that criticizes apple, not matter how true or funny, gets modded down as troll. The irony being that it seams like the real trolls mod these down.
I guess we see what we want to see, as a fan of apple I have come to the opposite conclusion. Most of the comments that have been modded 4/5 on this story for example seem to be negative criticisms of apple.
Hmm, on the face of it zones of freedom look like a bad idea. But don't we already have that, for example where minors aren't allowed to enter a bar, or strip joint?
A peek into.iba files and a comparison with epub files evidences that Apple deliberately re-designed and implemented features in order to make the ibooks file format incompatible
This is a reasonable conclusion to come to, but if you look at the apple marketing for iBooks, nowhere do they mention that the file format has anything to do with the epub standard. It's completely proprietary as far as they are concerned, even the extension is ".iBook"
(This really smells like embrace-extend-extinguish to me.)
Again on the face of it, but I would say that would only be true only if they were saying: "look everyone, buy our great new books that are based on ePub open standards but with innovative apple enhancements".
Apple have a track record of using open standards completely internally, this looks like more of the same. It wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on their stance though.
However, I don't think any of them are Patent Trolls since you can't tell me that any one of them don't research and innovate to a large degree. But I guess "Patent Troll" has now become subverted, just like "Bricked" did.
BTW I feel I have to say this: I DON'T agree with what they are doing, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy and selective representation of the facts.
A rectangular screen with a black border around it.
Whenever I hear that tired old meme I imagine an ignorant anti-evolution lawyer playing to the gallery saying: "my grandpappy was an ape". It's such a wilfully dishonest distillation of the facts. Samsung SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY took a number of design cues from Apple that you would have to be an idiot, or have an axe to grind not to see it. Then to justify that stance, engage in the kind of word wanking that would shame a lawyer.
But wait, did I say this was wrong? No, I'm sure the world wouldn't collapse if the courts weren't involved. But that's not my point - that Samsung "copied" the iPad is. Which they did.
Because Apple is their highest profile customer. They're raking in massive profits while utilizing a company that leverages the low pay of Chinese laborers and the lack of real labor laws, which has had some high profile incidents.
Thousands line up to work there because there are billions of people in the country who are increasingly being displaced and are poor, and need anything as a source of income. Doesn't mean it's a good job, just that it's a job.
I know that's the reason given but its bullshit - click bait is closer to the truth.
I'm not a US citizen and that's the first time I've seen that quote. But to me it makes a lot of sense, ie that a system of government can become so corrupt that it cannot be changed from the inside - more "drastic" measures may be needed. We've seen this round the world from relatively peaceful civil disobedience to the violent and bloody Arab spring.
On your other criticism, why shouldn't the wisdom of those who went before us be considered in analysis - is there some youthful age limit at play here?
His philosophy speaks to why I don't buy Apple products.. lack of choices
If you had said you refuse to buy apple on the grounds that they are bullies then I could buy that, but I don't understand the "lack of choice" argument, could you explain?
The way I see it, if you see the market as one which includes all phones, then surely the existence of Apple handsets enhances your choice - greatly so because the also ship with their own unique operating system. So on that basis wouldn't you consider including them in your "round-robin" upgrades over the coming years?
On the other hand if you take the stance that its actually the individual vendor that must be considered on a case by case basis. In which case is there some minimum number of models that should be offered by a given vendor in order to avoid your boycott?
Why is it that the most popular girl at the dance is usually the biggest douchebag?
You know Sharpay from HSM isn't real? So ignoring cliche characters from movies for a moment, popular girls in real life are popular for a good reason, ie they arent douchebags.
Apple begins a very anti-competitive, design infringement lawsuit...
Seems very competitive to me in the hard ball sense, but then again "anti-competitive" seems to have become a synonym of "competitive" round here. A bit like flammable and inflammable.
Samsung gets investigated for anti-competitive behaviour.
Abuse of FRAND has very serious consequences, explain why Samsung shouldn't be investigated if that's what you think.
Popular kid abuses geek, geek fights back, geek gets sent to the principals office. WTF!?
Jeez, it seems your conclusions are based on your fantasy movie as a substitute for the facts.
I expected (not accepted) this sort of blatant ignorance then, but when it comes to an entire governing body (excuse my ignorance of EU policy) this sort of nonsense should not be tolerated.
So by your own admission you are ignorant of EU policy, yet at the same time are calling them out on their nonsense?
But corporations are fully allowed to do this without repercussion.
Both Apple and Samsung are have the legal spotlight shining on them - does that count as repercussion?
That upsets me.
What upsets you is that the "good guys" (Samsung) may also have been caught with their pants down - the courts will decide this not you or me. And it's that unravelling cognitive dissonance that is causing your discomfort.
Wow, you Apple fanatics sure know how to circle the wagons!
The "But every other tech company does it!" defense doesn't resonate particularly well coming from a company whose corporate slogan tells us to "Think different".
If Apple doesn't want to be relegated to "just another tech gadget company" status, perhaps they should seize this opportunity to take the lead in reforming the tech manufacturing industry.
I agree that Apple should take the lead on this one, it would be good for their shareholders (that's the only incentive for a modern corporation to act). However on your other point I disagree: "But every other tech company does it!" should resonate with everyone otherwise we'll just be ignorantly shifting our dollars from one "Foxconn inside" product to another.
I note that few of the Apple fanbois have chosen to defend Apple here. Rather they just bleat that 'everyone does it', as though that's ever been much of a justification for appalling behaviour.
Getting modded up is like shooting a fish in a barrel isn't it;)
I especially like the "bleat" gag because of the subtle link with sheep.
It may be true that all products from China are produced under similar conditions so the people building samsungs and acers have it just as bad as those building iStuff. However, some of Apple's success is attributed to the massive quantities they purchase and how they hold great power over manufacturers to drive their cost down. I'd say this also makes apple the most effective target for a boycott. Their control as the single buyer of vast numbers of parts puts them in the unique position to be able to improve working conditions. Instead of saying "we'll buy 50,000,000 LCD screens if you reduce the cost by 3% or sell to us exclusively" they could say "we'll buy 50,000,000 screens if you stop making workers live in pens and let them have friends/unionize". Of course, the only reason they would do such a crazy thing would be because of a massive boycott. It would seem that if you care about how your stuff is made, your best bet is to go after the biggest fish.
It's no good boycotting Apple if all you do is start buying Samsung (for example) because you are still perpetuating the exploitation of workers at the bottom of the supply chain. And the trouble with this "big fish" argument is that your average person would do exactly this, because they are getting the message: "Apple bad, everyone else good".
'Any suggestion that we don't care is patently false and offensive to us... accusations like these are contrary to our values.'
There you have it, "we care because we say we care, and therefore those workers are obviously cared for." Wow, Tim, way to keep the reality distortion field alive!
Hear, hear. And I'm sure Tim graciously speaks on behalf of all gadget manufacturers with this message. Including the one who made the Android/Windows/Blackberry Foxconn phone in your pocket.
The best thing to do, do not buy a new phone unless the old is broken. And if possible, replace the battery if you can instead of throwing the thing away.
The good thing about that occupy movement (as far as I can see it from over here), they might be open to arguments.
So we stop pumping money into Foxconn products then? The law of unintended consequences immediately springs to mind, when those Foxconn workers start to lose their jobs. Ok their working conditions are shitty by western standards, but could it be that the alternative is much, much worse? Others may know the answer to this.
Except it's really China's manufacturing practices. Foxconn makes parts and subsystems (as well as finished goods) for thousands of companies. Calls to boycotting Apple, in that context, are absurd, and in some ways suggest and even less informed (by way of thinking you know something now, but only knowing part of the story) position.
It's not absurd at all. Apple is, by far, the most visible customer of Foxconn and therefore the best place to start pressuring them. Boycotting Foxconn directly is impractical because no one knows which products have Foxconn parts and/or assemblies and Foxconn isn't a household word. Apple on the other hand, is a household word and everyone would understand what is involved in an Apple boycott.
So as a representative of those who believe unilaterally boycotting Apple is a good idea, please tell me what the ground rules for this boycott are. For example I usually like to upgrade my iPhone once a year, so are you suggesting that I hold onto my phone say for another year? But if we all did this then all corporations are punished equally.
Or maybe the way to go is to change my vendor - let's say to Samsung. But no one knows which products have Foxconn parts (your words) so would I still be showing my support for Foxconn, or do Samsung's suppliers have a worse record of employee exploitation and abuse?
They're singled out because they're the most visible. That's the price you pay for being at the head of the pack. If they don't like it - maybe they should do something about the factory conditions.
Agreed, and we'll watch their next move closely.
"Everybody else is doing it" wasn't a valid defense when you were 7, and it's not a valid defense when you're running a giant corporation.
"Nobody else is doing it" isn't a valid viewpoint to push when you are writing click bait news stories, and it's not a valid viewpoint to imply when you are commenting on a respected, intelligent website such as slashdot.
And this isn't meant as flamebait. Seriously, go to an Occupy protest sometime and just look at the sheer number of Mac's, iPhones, and iPads you'll see. It's fucking creepy. They've been for shit at organizing on any other point, but they've apparently almost all agreed on at least *one* thing.
Really? Fucking retarded moderators, looks like any old rhetoric is taken as gospel these days with not one cited reference. Why should it be creepy that Apple products are used anyway, as opposed to any other foxconn branded gear?
"Everybody else is doing it" wasn't a valid defense when you were 7, and it's not a valid defense when you're running a giant corporation.
"Valid", whatever the hell that is! If you must ascribe moral values to a legal entity then fine, but understand that a giant corporation is much more sociopathic than a child could ever be.
Apple has no such obligation - as a corporation beholden to its shareholders it has a duty to maximise profit, that's all. And hopefully in a way that can be sustained, but that's a whole other can of worms. This is how all boardroom decisions are made.
Occasionally these corporations do something good, such as google with its support of numerous open standards - but I guarantee this is done for the good of said corporation. That it appears selfless to us on the surface is just a happy coincidence.
On the other hand the one party that _does_ have an obligation is the government who set the ground rules for business and are in a position to grant targeted subsidies and other incentives so that it is cheaper to look for the homegrown solution.
However it's my hunch that even if it were more expensive for Apple to use foreign labor they would still continue to make use of it since there are other vectors at play. Such as a more nimble workforce and sheer scale of operation that enable Apple to quickly get a product to market and make fine tuned adjustments. I'm not saying that cheaper costs aren't a fantastically sweet cherry for them, but I suspect it's the super efficient and predictable workflow that us most valuable.
So Obama, give us a cheaper, more nimble base of engineering and we can go American. Can't do that? Oh dear we are fucked, but at least we understand why.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm surprised it's gotten to 4. Usually any post that criticizes apple, not matter how true or funny, gets modded down as troll. The irony being that it seams like the real trolls mod these down.
I guess we see what we want to see, as a fan of apple I have come to the opposite conclusion. Most of the comments that have been modded 4/5 on this story for example seem to be negative criticisms of apple.
Dont we already have such a system of zones when it comes to watching movies of caring classification?
Hmm, on the face of it zones of freedom look like a bad idea. But don't we already have that, for example where minors aren't allowed to enter a bar, or strip joint?
A peek into .iba files and a comparison with epub files evidences that Apple deliberately re-designed and implemented features in order to make the ibooks file format incompatible
This is a reasonable conclusion to come to, but if you look at the apple marketing for iBooks, nowhere do they mention that the file format has anything to do with the epub standard. It's completely proprietary as far as they are concerned, even the extension is ".iBook"
(This really smells like embrace-extend-extinguish to me.)
Again on the face of it, but I would say that would only be true only if they were saying: "look everyone, buy our great new books that are based on ePub open standards but with innovative apple enhancements".
Apple have a track record of using open standards completely internally, this looks like more of the same. It wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on their stance though.
And you're trapped in a google morality distortion field, slowly everyone is beginning to wake up to it.
It's better than someone who refuses to engage with the arguments
...relying instead on a pithy quote that the gallery approves of.
Apple is now a Patent Troll... have they so given up on innovation that they can on live on shady backroom deals and the charity of a judge?
And still you don't get it, this is much closer:
Apple is now a Patent Troll http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/apple-seen-hurting-shareholders-with-jobs-s-thermonuclear-patent-war-tech.html
Google is now a Patent Troll http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2012/01/google-authorized-motorola-to-seek.html
Samsung is now a Patent Troll http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2012/01/eu-launches-full-blown-investigation-of.html
Microsoft is now a Patent Troll http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2012/jan12/01-12LGPR.mspx
However, I don't think any of them are Patent Trolls since you can't tell me that any one of them don't research and innovate to a large degree. But I guess "Patent Troll" has now become subverted, just like "Bricked" did.
BTW I feel I have to say this: I DON'T agree with what they are doing, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy and selective representation of the facts.
A rectangular screen with a black border around it.
Whenever I hear that tired old meme I imagine an ignorant anti-evolution lawyer playing to the gallery saying: "my grandpappy was an ape". It's such a wilfully dishonest distillation of the facts. Samsung SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY took a number of design cues from Apple that you would have to be an idiot, or have an axe to grind not to see it. Then to justify that stance, engage in the kind of word wanking that would shame a lawyer.
But wait, did I say this was wrong? No, I'm sure the world wouldn't collapse if the courts weren't involved. But that's not my point - that Samsung "copied" the iPad is. Which they did.
Because Apple is their highest profile customer. They're raking in massive profits while utilizing a company that leverages the low pay of Chinese laborers and the lack of real labor laws, which has had some high profile incidents.
Thousands line up to work there because there are billions of people in the country who are increasingly being displaced and are poor, and need anything as a source of income. Doesn't mean it's a good job, just that it's a job.
I know that's the reason given but its bullshit - click bait is closer to the truth.
On your other criticism, why shouldn't the wisdom of those who went before us be considered in analysis - is there some youthful age limit at play here?
Hey, 1994 called, and they want their objections to apple back. "using the trash can to eject"? seriously?
http://xkcd.com/875/
His philosophy speaks to why I don't buy Apple products .. lack of choices
If you had said you refuse to buy apple on the grounds that they are bullies then I could buy that, but I don't understand the "lack of choice" argument, could you explain?
The way I see it, if you see the market as one which includes all phones, then surely the existence of Apple handsets enhances your choice - greatly so because the also ship with their own unique operating system. So on that basis wouldn't you consider including them in your "round-robin" upgrades over the coming years?
On the other hand if you take the stance that its actually the individual vendor that must be considered on a case by case basis. In which case is there some minimum number of models that should be offered by a given vendor in order to avoid your boycott?
Just wondering.
Samsung wants them to do what everyone else does and cut a side deal that waives license fees in exchange for patent and IP cross-licensing.
Otherwise known as a cartel. Be careful what you wish for.
Why is it that the most popular girl at the dance is usually the biggest douchebag?
You know Sharpay from HSM isn't real? So ignoring cliche characters from movies for a moment, popular girls in real life are popular for a good reason, ie they arent douchebags.
Apple begins a very anti-competitive, design infringement lawsuit...
Seems very competitive to me in the hard ball sense, but then again "anti-competitive" seems to have become a synonym of "competitive" round here. A bit like flammable and inflammable.
Samsung gets investigated for anti-competitive behaviour.
Abuse of FRAND has very serious consequences, explain why Samsung shouldn't be investigated if that's what you think.
Popular kid abuses geek, geek fights back, geek gets sent to the principals office. WTF!?
Jeez, it seems your conclusions are based on your fantasy movie as a substitute for the facts.
I expected (not accepted) this sort of blatant ignorance then, but when it comes to an entire governing body (excuse my ignorance of EU policy) this sort of nonsense should not be tolerated.
So by your own admission you are ignorant of EU policy, yet at the same time are calling them out on their nonsense?
But corporations are fully allowed to do this without repercussion.
Both Apple and Samsung are have the legal spotlight shining on them - does that count as repercussion?
That upsets me.
What upsets you is that the "good guys" (Samsung) may also have been caught with their pants down - the courts will decide this not you or me. And it's that unravelling cognitive dissonance that is causing your discomfort.
Wow, you Apple fanatics sure know how to circle the wagons!
The "But every other tech company does it!" defense doesn't resonate particularly well coming from a company whose corporate slogan tells us to "Think different".
If Apple doesn't want to be relegated to "just another tech gadget company" status, perhaps they should seize this opportunity to take the lead in reforming the tech manufacturing industry.
I agree that Apple should take the lead on this one, it would be good for their shareholders (that's the only incentive for a modern corporation to act). However on your other point I disagree: "But every other tech company does it!" should resonate with everyone otherwise we'll just be ignorantly shifting our dollars from one "Foxconn inside" product to another.
I note that few of the Apple fanbois have chosen to defend Apple here. Rather they just bleat that 'everyone does it', as though that's ever been much of a justification for appalling behaviour.
Getting modded up is like shooting a fish in a barrel isn't it ;)
I especially like the "bleat" gag because of the subtle link with sheep.
Again, well done.
It may be true that all products from China are produced under similar conditions so the people building samsungs and acers have it just as bad as those building iStuff. However, some of Apple's success is attributed to the massive quantities they purchase and how they hold great power over manufacturers to drive their cost down. I'd say this also makes apple the most effective target for a boycott. Their control as the single buyer of vast numbers of parts puts them in the unique position to be able to improve working conditions. Instead of saying "we'll buy 50,000,000 LCD screens if you reduce the cost by 3% or sell to us exclusively" they could say "we'll buy 50,000,000 screens if you stop making workers live in pens and let them have friends/unionize". Of course, the only reason they would do such a crazy thing would be because of a massive boycott. It would seem that if you care about how your stuff is made, your best bet is to go after the biggest fish.
It's no good boycotting Apple if all you do is start buying Samsung (for example) because you are still perpetuating the exploitation of workers at the bottom of the supply chain. And the trouble with this "big fish" argument is that your average person would do exactly this, because they are getting the message: "Apple bad, everyone else good".
Tim Cook met the allegations head-on:
'Any suggestion that we don't care is patently false and offensive to us ... accusations like these are contrary to our values.'
There you have it, "we care because we say we care, and therefore those workers are obviously cared for." Wow, Tim, way to keep the reality distortion field alive!
Hear, hear. And I'm sure Tim graciously speaks on behalf of all gadget manufacturers with this message. Including the one who made the Android/Windows/Blackberry Foxconn phone in your pocket.
The best thing to do, do not buy a new phone unless the old is broken. And if possible, replace the battery if you can instead of throwing the thing away.
The good thing about that occupy movement (as far as I can see it from over here), they might be open to arguments.
So we stop pumping money into Foxconn products then? The law of unintended consequences immediately springs to mind, when those Foxconn workers start to lose their jobs. Ok their working conditions are shitty by western standards, but could it be that the alternative is much, much worse? Others may know the answer to this.
Except it's really China's manufacturing practices. Foxconn makes parts and subsystems (as well as finished goods) for thousands of companies. Calls to boycotting Apple, in that context, are absurd, and in some ways suggest and even less informed (by way of thinking you know something now, but only knowing part of the story) position.
It's not absurd at all. Apple is, by far, the most visible customer of Foxconn and therefore the best place to start pressuring them. Boycotting Foxconn directly is impractical because no one knows which products have Foxconn parts and/or assemblies and Foxconn isn't a household word. Apple on the other hand, is a household word and everyone would understand what is involved in an Apple boycott.
So as a representative of those who believe unilaterally boycotting Apple is a good idea, please tell me what the ground rules for this boycott are. For example I usually like to upgrade my iPhone once a year, so are you suggesting that I hold onto my phone say for another year? But if we all did this then all corporations are punished equally.
Or maybe the way to go is to change my vendor - let's say to Samsung. But no one knows which products have Foxconn parts (your words) so would I still be showing my support for Foxconn, or do Samsung's suppliers have a worse record of employee exploitation and abuse?
They're singled out because they're the most visible. That's the price you pay for being at the head of the pack. If they don't like it - maybe they should do something about the factory conditions.
Agreed, and we'll watch their next move closely.
"Everybody else is doing it" wasn't a valid defense when you were 7, and it's not a valid defense when you're running a giant corporation.
"Nobody else is doing it" isn't a valid viewpoint to push when you are writing click bait news stories, and it's not a valid viewpoint to imply when you are commenting on a respected, intelligent website such as slashdot.
And this isn't meant as flamebait. Seriously, go to an Occupy protest sometime and just look at the sheer number of Mac's, iPhones, and iPads you'll see. It's fucking creepy. They've been for shit at organizing on any other point, but they've apparently almost all agreed on at least *one* thing.
Really? Fucking retarded moderators, looks like any old rhetoric is taken as gospel these days with not one cited reference. Why should it be creepy that Apple products are used anyway, as opposed to any other foxconn branded gear?
BTW, here is an example of how to cite a reference, it would be nice if you earned your mod points: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=occupy+wall+street+laptops&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=xA4nT53LGYbG8QO4r53uBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CEcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1224&bih=612
"Everybody else is doing it" wasn't a valid defense when you were 7, and it's not a valid defense when you're running a giant corporation.
"Valid", whatever the hell that is! If you must ascribe moral values to a legal entity then fine, but understand that a giant corporation is much more sociopathic than a child could ever be.
Judge Denies Dismissal of No-Poach Conspiracy Case
Three negatives! Did anybody else have trouble parsing that sentence? :-)
Occasionally these corporations do something good, such as google with its support of numerous open standards - but I guarantee this is done for the good of said corporation. That it appears selfless to us on the surface is just a happy coincidence.
On the other hand the one party that _does_ have an obligation is the government who set the ground rules for business and are in a position to grant targeted subsidies and other incentives so that it is cheaper to look for the homegrown solution.
However it's my hunch that even if it were more expensive for Apple to use foreign labor they would still continue to make use of it since there are other vectors at play. Such as a more nimble workforce and sheer scale of operation that enable Apple to quickly get a product to market and make fine tuned adjustments. I'm not saying that cheaper costs aren't a fantastically sweet cherry for them, but I suspect it's the super efficient and predictable workflow that us most valuable.
So Obama, give us a cheaper, more nimble base of engineering and we can go American. Can't do that? Oh dear we are fucked, but at least we understand why.