"Few people I talked to who are working on McKinly processor - says that they can barely make it work at around 1Ghz...Would Intel join AMD campaign that "Mhz numbers doesn't matter anymore"? we'll see... "
Well, first off, I think the Itanium is barely running at 800 MHz right now, and is clock-for-clock, SLOWER than a 800 MHz P3 (not to mention an Athlon) running x86 code.
And x86 code will be the MAJORITY of apps run on Itanium for some time (years), at least, in the `Doze world. Linux has a huge head start on IA64, because of the availability of source: All you have to do to get a IA64 Linux app is recompile...
In the meantime, this time next year the AMD Sledgehammer will be out. Not only is the Sledgehammer a 64-bit chip, but it has no performance penalty running 32-bit x86...
IMO, the AMD architecture, which is a less radical departure from what is there today stands a better chance of being accepted, as it's easier to develop. Even if the architecture of the IA64 is superior, it's radical departure from the x86 might make it a failure, when the market is given the alternative of a 64-bit, even faster x86 solution. x86 is far from perfect, but that has not stopped the market time and time again rejecting "better" chips and instruction sets to stick with x86.
I am assuming the AMD Sledgehammer chip core doesn't have the clock speed problems that the Itanium does.
Neither HP nor Compaq had any plans (that we know of) to support sledgehammer, and as has been stated, HP is betting their entire enterprise business on the IA64.
"Eh? Compaq, harbingers of butchered hardware vs. HP, who generally uses "normal" parts. Compaq going bye-bye? Good riddance."
Dude, take a look inside a HP NetServer some time... Plastic case, motherboard as thick as 3 sheets of paper, that is COMPLETELY nonstandard....
The best thing about HP workstations and servers is that most parts are made to be removed and replaced easily (without a screwdriver even in most cases with even the motherboard), almost as if anticipating frequent replacements, which I've done before in the field... To do that, you have to not use standard components.
Not only that, but in the past 2 years, HP has been on the WRONG side in choosing new technology. HP was heavily invested in Rambus based workstations (at one time in early 2000, you couldn't even GET one based on SDRAM until they hurredly re-added it).
Their whole future in the server space is tied to the Itanium, a 64-bit processor that runs x86 software slower than the LAST generation P3 chips, and can't get a high clock speed (like the P4 can) to compensate...
HP under Fiorna has done little but follow Intel along from disaster after disaster in the past 2 years, wheras companies like Compaq and IBM hedged their bets.
" There'd be another massive layoff. Now there's a huge overlapping in the PC suport part, guess which one will be cut?"
And I bet she gets more toasts and bonuses from the board as well... However, I see this move as a HUGE mistake by them. They gain NOTHING except debt, more gross revenue, and the elimination of a compeditor that was in many ways, doing things BETTER than them...
Sounds to me like she's playing the "gross sales" (pay no attention to the millions in LOSSES) game that most money-losing companies try to use to skate by for awhile. They are already talking about $2.5 BILLION in "savings" (translated: $2.5 billion worth of people are getting burned)
You know what the problem is with having layoff after layoff in a company of that size? The wheat gets canned/leaves, and all that is left is the chaff...
I've seen it before. Most huge companies dump people on seniority instead of merit, and end up losing a LOT of their best people. Carly's been in slash-n-burn-mode with HP almost since taking over, sooner or later it (brain drain) will catch up to them.
I really feel for those who work at Compaq right now... IMO, they make the best server and workstation lines there are. I used to work for a Compaq VAR in West Virginia, and absolutely fell in love with their ProLiant servers.
It's sickening how many good people are unable to find work right now...
It's set my own plans back quite a bit, I'd planned on moving on after getting my RHCE later this year, but it looks like I'll have to spend at least another year as a contractor at IBM.
There are enough top level people out there to start an IBM sized company with as much R&D talent as they have...
However, I think it's bad that HP is buying Compaq, instead of the other way around... I've never been impressed with HP's products (other than printers, which are the best), particularly their servers or workstations.
I've always preferred Compaq's to theirs. It will be sad to see the end of the Deskpro workstations and ProLiant servers, which were always a pleasure to install, set up, and even repair. I've had to replace several customer's paper-thin motherboards in HP NetServers... Compaq servers are built to Millspec, like most of the IBM servers. HP's are more plastic and flash, much like Dell servers.
Ms. Fiorna has pretty much led HP down to ruin since jumping off Lucent just before THEY went to ruin, so entrusting her to lead this new beast may be a shaky proposition. I don't really see how swallowing Compaq will really gain HP anything new, as the only really interesting technology Compaq had (Alpha) they've pretty much given away. I see this as HP gaining a lot of overhead, a lot of revenue, but little in the way of additional profit, as Compaq has the very same market problems HP did.
Looks to me like the only REAL gain HP makes is getting a MAJOR competitor out odf the way...
"Regarding Passport in general... using it for hotmail? MSN messenger? Fine. That's great. But let's not get carried away. I won't give MS my financial information, ever. "
That's not far off. If XP is a success, and MS gets WPA accepted by the masses, there is no limit to what info they can demand for the priviledge of using the product that you bought.
Funny, the government defines driving on roads that are paid for by my taxes as a "priviledge", and so does MS, apparently, define using software I've paid for a "priviledge".
The funny thing about a "piveledge" is that it can be revoked... For capricious reasons.
"The licensing on XP is tied to the system's BIOS. Upgrade your CD-ROM...no reactivation required. For most home users, who don't even know what a BIOS is, they will likely never need to re-register XP."
And what happens if you have to FLASH your BIOS to fix a bug or add support for hardware? Time to call home...
"Most of the new hardware requirements are due to the new GUI, don't like it? It can easily be switched back to "classic" mode from the start panel. Thus XP will require similar hardware requirements as Win2k"
Huh? Not true! The GUI is nothing more than a "skin". The old GUI is just another "skin" (like Mozilla, which has a new look, but also has the Netsacpe 4.x GUI option). Changing to that kind of engine is what accounts for the increase in RAM/CPU the GUI takes, NOT what skin you run on it.
"Now take a look at XP. It is, visually, very impressive. Ergo, the user thinks it is a very advanced version and decides that it is better. "
Actually, I think XP takes a huge step BACKWARDS from the very clean, practical 2000/ME GUI. The bad 70's shag carpet color-overload "kindergarden" GUI is an insult. Actually, it's a sign that MS couldn't think of anything USEFUL to add to the GUI, so just decided to change the colors radically and make the buttons bigger. Whee!
MS changed the GUI only to make it LOOK different because they are banking on consumers and IT managers to think just because it LOOKS new, that the OS beneath it must be LOTS better, when nothing can be further from the truth. XP is a downgrade from 2000, not an upgrade, and it is debatable as to whether XP Home is even a significant upgrade from 98/ME.
You can change back to the 2000 GUI in XP, which is something I did quickly on each test machine I had to run it on.
"You've overstated the upgrade cost. Historically, the retail price for Windows (not NT/2000) upgrades was $89."
Historically, MONTHS, or even YEARS after the release, you are correct, a `Doze upgrade sells for $89. However, the past few releases, notably `98SE and ME, sold for much less at release. You are correct in stating that they were just minor upgrades (bug fixes that should have been free), but then, XP Pro is also a VERY minor upgrade from 2000, yet costs $200 to upgrade to. In fact, it's a downgrade, when you consider the (holey) firewall (which I predict will go over as well as MS's anti-virus software they put in DOS 6.0), and WPA.
When you also consider that XP Home is a similarly minor upgrade from `98SE or ME, when you SUBTRACT the network functionality that has been stripped, it hardly seems worth $100 there either. Networks at home are getting more and more common these days, especially for internet broadband sharing. MS has just made it impossible to use their "home" OS to be a client of any sort of secure network, when previously this existed.
"The worst bit is that people have to pay to call support"
Even worse is if they get it preloaded, you can't even call support at all (other than their 900 number).
MS convieniently "cost-shifts" all support for OEM versions to the OEM. Which hardly justifies the slightly lower price for OEM software.
It's not an unsafe bet (given MS's history of bug-infested code) to bet that there will be serious bugs in WPA that will cause the system to just DIE suddenly because a new mouse, keyboard, printer, etc was added.
Which is why I'm all in FAVOR of it being in there! WPA could be the death of MS. The more inconvienient and expensive MS makes it to own Windows (especially in a business), the MORE likely people will look to alternatives.
"98 can't join a domain or do SMP either. Neither can its equivalent, XP home. Ho hum. "
Excuse me, but I've set up MANY a `98 and ME system to run as clients on a NT domain, including this machine I'm writing this on right now (can dual boot into 98SE, and one of my servers runs 2000 Server).
Either I'm better than I ever thought I was, or else those versions of `Doze supported it.
XP Home will NOT allow you to log into a domain, because MS wants to force all businesses to use the twice as expensive "Pro" version. It's a MS tax increase, nothing more. They took OUT vital features for no good reason other than profit motive.
And the worst downturn in the tech industry since the early 1980's is NOT the best time to be doubling your prices. That alone (aside from WPA, MS's BSA extortion racket, etc), is enough to dissuade the corps from upgrading, and to give them motivation to try an alternative.
"That is false. You will not lose you your data. If you perform certain upgrades, you your os might require you yourself to call MS within a few days and reactivate you your OS. Most people don't perform such upgrades so frequently. Even techies don't, and when you do, its only a phone call. "
Will it? You assume that the code that does this will be foolproof. I've seen 9X machines LOSE PNP hardware after rebooting before, and automatically reinstall drivers. I can't say that I've seen a 2000 or NT box do that, but it's not out of the question. Microsoft HARDLY has a reputation for writing flawless code. WPA is a new CORE OS component, that has only been around for a few months now. Hardly long enough to test thouroughly, especially on the diverse configurations that will be seen once it's out of beta.
Also, I RESENT paying $100-$200-infinity for an OS, only to have the fucking OS decide not to run until I "call home" (what happens if it's on an evening, or a weekend, or a holiday?) before letting me at my data.
You see, Microsoft is ASSUMING all their customers are thieves, and are guilty of running a WAREZ `Doze until proven innocent. That is not good PR, and alone will cost them money. In fact, I'd bet that the cost of staffing the support lines ALONE because of this "feature" will eat away far more than any additional revenue they'd get because people who otherwise wouldn't buy a legit copy.
XP will be the doom of Microsoft. One day in the future, XP will be studied along with the Apple III, IBM Micro Channel Architecture, and Intel/Rambus as an example of corporate arrogance trumping common sense with DISATEROUS results.
As one/. poster has put it (brilliantly, I might add), that with XP, Microsoft has done to itself what the DOJ never could have done: Release a product that will ENABLE competition, and possibly ruin the company.
XP is the product of the two biggest sins a corporation can commit: arrogance and contempt. It's arrogant in that it's overpriced, offers NOTHING new over WIndows 2000, and in fact, takes away from it.
The "Home" version strips you of network capability, unlike 98/95/ME/2000, it CANNOT be used as a client on anything but a peer-to-peer network. It won't allow you to log into a NT domain. I haven't tested it to see if Novell Client 32 will allow logins to a Netware server, but I'd suspect that it's broken as well. It has no support for SMP at all (though 9X didn't either), to get SMP requires the $200 "Professional" version upgrade. None of this is because XP can't do SMP or serve as a network client, it's because MS chose to deliberately CRIPPLE it, and yet sell it for a radically increased price over ME/98.
The Home version upgrade is 100% more expensive than ME! (ME could be had for $50 to upgrade from 98). For what benefit? None that I can tell. Sure, you are likely to gain some of 2000's stability, but you will surely lose game compatibility (which is why the deplorable Win `9X is still the gamers OS). Is that worth $100? Not to me. And I'd bet not to many joe blows.
MS comits the sin of contempt with Product Activation, and it's spyware nature. XP "decides" how far to let you upgrade your hardware before requiring reactication. Which can lose you your data if there is but the SLIGHTEST glitch in this process. MS is better known for creating "unintended consequences" in it's "features" than it is in writing bug-free code. XP constantly monitors your hardware configuration,assigning it a "checksum" number via some formula, and if it gets too far from the "checksum" number originally generated when you installed it, it will CEASE to function.
I hope they have those support lines well staffed.
That's right, now on a XP system, the system owner does NOT have root access to the machine! This is something no MS OS has attempted to do before.
Even if XP didn't have the fatal flaws of arrogance and contempt, the fact that it's a 100%-200% increase in price over 9X alone would be enough to doom it. In this time of economic crisis, particularly in the tech sector, a 100+% increase in the "MS Tax" will do nothing but slow sales, ESPECIALLY when you expect MS to make licenses of ME, 98, and 2000 scarce quickly.
Bashes./ as biased (well, DUH! we are here because of Linux), but you can hear the crickets chirp as to their mention of Ziff-Davis sites.
ZD is by FAR the most biased, most useless source of tech information. I dumped my subscription to Computer Gaming World after 12 years when they bought it.
In a ZD article, you "coincidently" see and ad for a product around a positive review of it.
" What's so evil about this? They're protecting themselves against theft. It's only evil towards the shoplifters, but nothing is bad about that. Are you sure that you actually spend the 200?:P"
All you have to do is look at my debit card statement:) I read over 200 books a year, have done so since HS.
"My solution's even simpler; I just won't shoplift at Border's."
What if some fuzzy CCD camera image ID's you as a shoplifter? What then? I bet you'd be suing, just as I'd do.
I'm as against stealing as you are. But what I am more against is a corp trying to play police. It's legal, but they better NOT make a mistake, as they have no exemption to civil lawsuits.
"Just like every other time this is said, this will be a classic case of people not knowing what hit them. They'll tolerate it at one chain, maybe two. People put up with a lot of shit, especially if it isn't affecting them (directly, immediately). By the time every major store jumps on the bandwagon, it'll be too late to stop it and there will be nowhere else to go. "
Sure there will be. An internet bookseller has an infinately larger selection than a Borders store.
Brick and mortars have much to lose by flocking to something like this.
" There are advantages with a private database. There are laws that require the database owner to correct the error. If not, the database owner is guilty of libel/slander (depending on which would apply, most likly libel). incorrectly identifying someone in a database is closest to a newspaper publishing an inaccurate story about you."
Worse, actaully... Courts tend to let newspapers skate because of the 1st Amendment. However, that protection would NOT protect a corp who mis-id'd you with a face scanner.
Courts tend to protect the press, because of the public interest in a free press. However, there is no precedent for protecting a corp in the same type of incidence.
"I was in a Fry's last month, the whole purpose was to check out if all their security was just like in the consulting paper (I didn't need to buy any gadgets, since I had just come from SE Asia:-) Its all there, most the customer never sees, but keeps the employees slightly more honest and the customers slightly affronted but not enough to lose revenue."
This reminds me of my battle with my local wal-mart over their incompetently run shoplifter scanners...
Something like 5 times in a ROW, the fucking scanner went off when I tried to leave after buying a movie... The last time, I blew up on them, demanded the manager (who was VERY unapologetic). After he copped his `tude with me I demanded my cash back, which they did, after some reluctance. I've never been back there again.
Would THAT get me on the scanner as a "suspected shoplifter"? Because a wal-mart minumum wage slave wage slave can't desensitize their fucking VHS tapes?
" The story mentions Borders using a union-busting firm. [jacksonlewis.com] Maybe this is really to recognize known union organizers."
I'd imagine this will be used for MANY purposes, not to mention, marketing purposes.
All the more reason to buy your stuff online, from a reputable supplier.
This is definately a chance for the./ crowd to make a difference... Where do we geeks have MORE disporportionate purchasing power than at the bookstores?
"Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this. Store should do whatever is necissary to track shoplifters. They don't have a god-given right to shoplift, and turning away people with a past history of shoplifting can lower prices, so be it."
Nothing at all wrong with it... UNLESS they make a mistake. And you know they will. CCD cameras take fuzzy pictures which increases that chance. They must be very confident that their system is 100% foolproof in the face of teh catastrophic liability this exposes them to...
If a private corp fingers you as a criminal and tries to detain you, and cause you embarassment in public, SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM!
A government has certain immunities from lawsuits, a private corp does not.
"How will you feel if security drags you into a backroom and starts questioning you about the book they know you stole two months ago? Luckily the software is perfect so that won't happen.
I'll refuse to come, then insist they call the police if they want to detain me. Then I'll sue them."
EXACTLY what I'd do. A "rent a cop" has no right to detain you or question you, insist that the police be involved. That is the best way to both CYA and to maximize Borders liability when you sue them.
" Why are there no protestors outside women's only gyms? That's blatant sexual discrimination, and yet nobody seems to be concerned. The reason is that, because it's a private establishment, they can admit whoever the hell they want. "
That's because there is nothing WRONG with a "womens only "gym. Just as there would be nothing wrong with one that is "mens only".
Men and women are demonstarably different, DESPITE the mantras of the 1960's bra-burners.
But, when you start discriminating by race, where there IS no difference, then you have a problem. For one thing I'd not go anwyhere where my friends aren't welcome.
However, Borders had better be fucking certain of the accuracy of their system... The government has certain immunities against being sued, a private corp has none. I hope my local Borders mis-ID's me. In fact, why don't we all go hang around hoping for that to happen, after all, your odds of being humiliated in public by this system fucking up are a LOT better than winning the lottery.
And I'd get a tank of sharks to make sure my "lottery ticket" was cashed from Border's coffers if it happened to me.
I've bought a lot of Linux books there too. I spend $200 a month on books, if not more, but I'll not feed a company that uses such evil technology.
The average computer (which runs Doze) can't run for a week without crashing, what makes anyone think that they can accurately identify people from fuzzy photos?
I'm thinking that there is going to be a HUGE market in the near future for hats/headgear that mask your face from cameras.
When I tried to remove the "newsupd" trojan that was put on my system by the Creative Audio PCI card I bought to put in my server (which dual boots RH 7.1 and Doze 98 for VMware purposes), I found it to be difficult...
These spyware/adware programs don't put themselves in "add/remove" programs, and in the case of the Creative Labs one, you MUST install it in order to install the drivers...
And I've been using PC's for over 15 years and have been employed professionally in IT for over 9. If I had to go find crypic instructions for editing it out of the `Doze registry, and found it annoying to do, I'm sure the average user won't figure it out.
This kind of exploitation will only get worse, as marketers (who are among the most evil among us) stoop to lower and lower levels in order to FORCE people into reading their copy.
THAT is my main objection... This is use of FORCE.
" Perhaps I am missing something here? If users don't like these extra links then they can remove the software. If they don't know how then they can either ask or go buy a book. "
I don't like that attitude. Like everyone, I was once a novice computer user (true, it was over 15 years ago, but I digress).
I abhor exploiting newbies as a matter of principle. But there is a self-interest angle...
The more newbies get exploited by marketerware, the HARDER it gets for them to experience their PC and the Internet without exploiter programs bothering them, the MORE likely they are to jump from the PC to simple dedicated machines that will lock them into one company's less obscene marketing.
Without newbies coming into the PC market, what happens to those of us who's income depends on it? We can either help the newbies, and try to do something about this abusive exploitation, or else, laugh at them as they are driven OFF the PC, and as we end up haughty ex-IT professionals now working at places where we have to say "you want fries with that".
Because, other than our computer skills, I'm betting the majority of us have no other job qualifications than that.
"there is no XP Server. Any comments you're making are about a product that is several months from being done.
Please gather your facts together before posting"
Excuse me, I'm NOT posting from ignorance. The name of the new MS server product has already changed several times since I've been testing it, and YES, I've been testing it for months now, since Beta 1.
I called it "XP Server" because that is a failsafe generic description for it that leaves the/. reader with NO QUESTION as to what I'm describing. The name of the new Windows server product has had several "official" names over the past months, INCLUDING, "XP Server, and 2002 Server". How do we know that ".NET Server" will make it to release?
We don't. Until the name is unquestionably final, I'll call it by what others will be able to recognize it by.
Slashdot Mirror
"Few people I talked to who are working on McKinly processor - says that they can barely make it work at around 1Ghz...Would Intel join AMD campaign that "Mhz numbers doesn't matter anymore"? we'll see... "
Well, first off, I think the Itanium is barely running at 800 MHz right now, and is clock-for-clock, SLOWER than a 800 MHz P3 (not to mention an Athlon) running x86 code.
And x86 code will be the MAJORITY of apps run on Itanium for some time (years), at least, in the `Doze world. Linux has a huge head start on IA64, because of the availability of source: All you have to do to get a IA64 Linux app is recompile...
In the meantime, this time next year the AMD Sledgehammer will be out. Not only is the Sledgehammer a 64-bit chip, but it has no performance penalty running 32-bit x86...
IMO, the AMD architecture, which is a less radical departure from what is there today stands a better chance of being accepted, as it's easier to develop. Even if the architecture of the IA64 is superior, it's radical departure from the x86 might make it a failure, when the market is given the alternative of a 64-bit, even faster x86 solution. x86 is far from perfect, but that has not stopped the market time and time again rejecting "better" chips and instruction sets to stick with x86.
I am assuming the AMD Sledgehammer chip core doesn't have the clock speed problems that the Itanium does.
Neither HP nor Compaq had any plans (that we know of) to support sledgehammer, and as has been stated, HP is betting their entire enterprise business on the IA64.
"Eh? Compaq, harbingers of butchered hardware vs. HP, who generally uses "normal" parts. Compaq going bye-bye? Good riddance."
Dude, take a look inside a HP NetServer some time... Plastic case, motherboard as thick as 3 sheets of paper, that is COMPLETELY nonstandard....
The best thing about HP workstations and servers is that most parts are made to be removed and replaced easily (without a screwdriver even in most cases with even the motherboard), almost as if anticipating frequent replacements, which I've done before in the field... To do that, you have to not use standard components.
Not only that, but in the past 2 years, HP has been on the WRONG side in choosing new technology. HP was heavily invested in Rambus based workstations (at one time in early 2000, you couldn't even GET one based on SDRAM until they hurredly re-added it).
Their whole future in the server space is tied to the Itanium, a 64-bit processor that runs x86 software slower than the LAST generation P3 chips, and can't get a high clock speed (like the P4 can) to compensate...
HP under Fiorna has done little but follow Intel along from disaster after disaster in the past 2 years, wheras companies like Compaq and IBM hedged their bets.
" There'd be another massive layoff. Now there's a huge overlapping in the PC suport part, guess which one will be cut?"
And I bet she gets more toasts and bonuses from the board as well... However, I see this move as a HUGE mistake by them. They gain NOTHING except debt, more gross revenue, and the elimination of a compeditor that was in many ways, doing things BETTER than them...
Sounds to me like she's playing the "gross sales" (pay no attention to the millions in LOSSES) game that most money-losing companies try to use to skate by for awhile. They are already talking about $2.5 BILLION in "savings" (translated: $2.5 billion worth of people are getting burned)
You know what the problem is with having layoff after layoff in a company of that size? The wheat gets canned/leaves, and all that is left is the chaff...
I've seen it before. Most huge companies dump people on seniority instead of merit, and end up losing a LOT of their best people. Carly's been in slash-n-burn-mode with HP almost since taking over, sooner or later it (brain drain) will catch up to them.
I really feel for those who work at Compaq right now... IMO, they make the best server and workstation lines there are. I used to work for a Compaq VAR in West Virginia, and absolutely fell in love with their ProLiant servers.
It's sickening how many good people are unable to find work right now...
It's set my own plans back quite a bit, I'd planned on moving on after getting my RHCE later this year, but it looks like I'll have to spend at least another year as a contractor at IBM.
There are enough top level people out there to start an IBM sized company with as much R&D talent as they have...
I'm amazed... wow!
However, I think it's bad that HP is buying Compaq, instead of the other way around... I've never been impressed with HP's products (other than printers, which are the best), particularly their servers or workstations.
I've always preferred Compaq's to theirs. It will be sad to see the end of the Deskpro workstations and ProLiant servers, which were always a pleasure to install, set up, and even repair. I've had to replace several customer's paper-thin motherboards in HP NetServers... Compaq servers are built to Millspec, like most of the IBM servers. HP's are more plastic and flash, much like Dell servers.
Ms. Fiorna has pretty much led HP down to ruin since jumping off Lucent just before THEY went to ruin, so entrusting her to lead this new beast may be a shaky proposition. I don't really see how swallowing Compaq will really gain HP anything new, as the only really interesting technology Compaq had (Alpha) they've pretty much given away. I see this as HP gaining a lot of overhead, a lot of revenue, but little in the way of additional profit, as Compaq has the very same market problems HP did.
Looks to me like the only REAL gain HP makes is getting a MAJOR competitor out odf the way...
"Regarding Passport in general... using it for hotmail? MSN messenger? Fine. That's great. But let's not get carried away. I won't give MS my financial information, ever. "
That's not far off. If XP is a success, and MS gets WPA accepted by the masses, there is no limit to what info they can demand for the priviledge of using the product that you bought.
Funny, the government defines driving on roads that are paid for by my taxes as a "priviledge", and so does MS, apparently, define using software I've paid for a "priviledge".
The funny thing about a "piveledge" is that it can be revoked... For capricious reasons.
"The licensing on XP is tied to the system's BIOS. Upgrade your CD-ROM...no reactivation required. For most home users, who don't even know what a BIOS is, they will likely never need to re-register XP."
And what happens if you have to FLASH your BIOS to fix a bug or add support for hardware? Time to call home...
"Most of the new hardware requirements are due to the new GUI, don't like it? It can easily be switched back to "classic" mode from the start panel. Thus XP will require similar hardware requirements as Win2k"
Huh? Not true! The GUI is nothing more than a "skin". The old GUI is just another "skin" (like Mozilla, which has a new look, but also has the Netsacpe 4.x GUI option). Changing to that kind of engine is what accounts for the increase in RAM/CPU the GUI takes, NOT what skin you run on it.
"Now take a look at XP. It is, visually, very impressive. Ergo, the user thinks it is a very advanced version and decides that it is better. "
Actually, I think XP takes a huge step BACKWARDS from the very clean, practical 2000/ME GUI. The bad 70's shag carpet color-overload "kindergarden" GUI is an insult. Actually, it's a sign that MS couldn't think of anything USEFUL to add to the GUI, so just decided to change the colors radically and make the buttons bigger. Whee!
MS changed the GUI only to make it LOOK different because they are banking on consumers and IT managers to think just because it LOOKS new, that the OS beneath it must be LOTS better, when nothing can be further from the truth. XP is a downgrade from 2000, not an upgrade, and it is debatable as to whether XP Home is even a significant upgrade from 98/ME.
You can change back to the 2000 GUI in XP, which is something I did quickly on each test machine I had to run it on.
"You've overstated the upgrade cost. Historically, the retail price for Windows (not NT/2000) upgrades was $89."
Historically, MONTHS, or even YEARS after the release, you are correct, a `Doze upgrade sells for $89. However, the past few releases, notably `98SE and ME, sold for much less at release. You are correct in stating that they were just minor upgrades (bug fixes that should have been free), but then, XP Pro is also a VERY minor upgrade from 2000, yet costs $200 to upgrade to. In fact, it's a downgrade, when you consider the (holey) firewall (which I predict will go over as well as MS's anti-virus software they put in DOS 6.0), and WPA.
When you also consider that XP Home is a similarly minor upgrade from `98SE or ME, when you SUBTRACT the network functionality that has been stripped, it hardly seems worth $100 there either. Networks at home are getting more and more common these days, especially for internet broadband sharing. MS has just made it impossible to use their "home" OS to be a client of any sort of secure network, when previously this existed.
"The worst bit is that people have to pay to call support"
Even worse is if they get it preloaded, you can't even call support at all (other than their 900 number).
MS convieniently "cost-shifts" all support for OEM versions to the OEM. Which hardly justifies the slightly lower price for OEM software.
It's not an unsafe bet (given MS's history of bug-infested code) to bet that there will be serious bugs in WPA that will cause the system to just DIE suddenly because a new mouse, keyboard, printer, etc was added.
Which is why I'm all in FAVOR of it being in there! WPA could be the death of MS. The more inconvienient and expensive MS makes it to own Windows (especially in a business), the MORE likely people will look to alternatives.
"98 can't join a domain or do SMP either. Neither can its equivalent, XP home. Ho hum. "
Excuse me, but I've set up MANY a `98 and ME system to run as clients on a NT domain, including this machine I'm writing this on right now (can dual boot into 98SE, and one of my servers runs 2000 Server).
Either I'm better than I ever thought I was, or else those versions of `Doze supported it.
XP Home will NOT allow you to log into a domain, because MS wants to force all businesses to use the twice as expensive "Pro" version. It's a MS tax increase, nothing more. They took OUT vital features for no good reason other than profit motive.
And the worst downturn in the tech industry since the early 1980's is NOT the best time to be doubling your prices. That alone (aside from WPA, MS's BSA extortion racket, etc), is enough to dissuade the corps from upgrading, and to give them motivation to try an alternative.
"That is false. You will not lose you your data. If you perform certain upgrades, you your os might require you yourself to call MS within a few days and reactivate you your OS. Most people don't perform such upgrades so frequently. Even techies don't, and when you do, its only a phone call. "
Will it? You assume that the code that does this will be foolproof. I've seen 9X machines LOSE PNP hardware after rebooting before, and automatically reinstall drivers. I can't say that I've seen a 2000 or NT box do that, but it's not out of the question. Microsoft HARDLY has a reputation for writing flawless code. WPA is a new CORE OS component, that has only been around for a few months now. Hardly long enough to test thouroughly, especially on the diverse configurations that will be seen once it's out of beta.
Also, I RESENT paying $100-$200-infinity for an OS, only to have the fucking OS decide not to run until I "call home" (what happens if it's on an evening, or a weekend, or a holiday?) before letting me at my data.
You see, Microsoft is ASSUMING all their customers are thieves, and are guilty of running a WAREZ `Doze until proven innocent. That is not good PR, and alone will cost them money. In fact, I'd bet that the cost of staffing the support lines ALONE because of this "feature" will eat away far more than any additional revenue they'd get because people who otherwise wouldn't buy a legit copy.
XP will be the doom of Microsoft. One day in the future, XP will be studied along with the Apple III, IBM Micro Channel Architecture, and Intel/Rambus as an example of corporate arrogance trumping common sense with DISATEROUS results.
/. poster has put it (brilliantly, I might add), that with XP, Microsoft has done to itself what the DOJ never could have done: Release a product that will ENABLE competition, and possibly ruin the company.
As one
XP is the product of the two biggest sins a corporation can commit: arrogance and contempt. It's arrogant in that it's overpriced, offers NOTHING new over WIndows 2000, and in fact, takes away from it.
The "Home" version strips you of network capability, unlike 98/95/ME/2000, it CANNOT be used as a client on anything but a peer-to-peer network. It won't allow you to log into a NT domain. I haven't tested it to see if Novell Client 32 will allow logins to a Netware server, but I'd suspect that it's broken as well. It has no support for SMP at all (though 9X didn't either), to get SMP requires the $200 "Professional" version upgrade. None of this is because XP can't do SMP or serve as a network client, it's because MS chose to deliberately CRIPPLE it, and yet sell it for a radically increased price over ME/98.
The Home version upgrade is 100% more expensive than ME! (ME could be had for $50 to upgrade from 98). For what benefit? None that I can tell. Sure, you are likely to gain some of 2000's stability, but you will surely lose game compatibility (which is why the deplorable Win `9X is still the gamers OS). Is that worth $100? Not to me. And I'd bet not to many joe blows.
MS comits the sin of contempt with Product Activation, and it's spyware nature. XP "decides" how far to let you upgrade your hardware before requiring reactication. Which can lose you your data if there is but the SLIGHTEST glitch in this process. MS is better known for creating "unintended consequences" in it's "features" than it is in writing bug-free code. XP constantly monitors your hardware configuration,assigning it a "checksum" number via some formula, and if it gets too far from the "checksum" number originally generated when you installed it, it will CEASE to function.
I hope they have those support lines well staffed.
That's right, now on a XP system, the system owner does NOT have root access to the machine! This is something no MS OS has attempted to do before.
Even if XP didn't have the fatal flaws of arrogance and contempt, the fact that it's a 100%-200% increase in price over 9X alone would be enough to doom it. In this time of economic crisis, particularly in the tech sector, a 100+% increase in the "MS Tax" will do nothing but slow sales, ESPECIALLY when you expect MS to make licenses of ME, 98, and 2000 scarce quickly.
The "window" of opportunity for Linux is open.
Bashes ./ as biased (well, DUH! we are here because of Linux), but you can hear the crickets chirp as to their mention of Ziff-Davis sites.
ZD is by FAR the most biased, most useless source of tech information. I dumped my subscription to Computer Gaming World after 12 years when they bought it.
In a ZD article, you "coincidently" see and ad for a product around a positive review of it.
" What's so evil about this? They're protecting themselves against theft. It's only evil towards the shoplifters, but nothing is bad about that. Are you sure that you actually spend the 200? :P"
:) I read over 200 books a year, have done so since HS.
All you have to do is look at my debit card statement
"My solution's even simpler; I just won't shoplift at Border's."
What if some fuzzy CCD camera image ID's you as a shoplifter? What then? I bet you'd be suing, just as I'd do.
I'm as against stealing as you are. But what I am more against is a corp trying to play police. It's legal, but they better NOT make a mistake, as they have no exemption to civil lawsuits.
"Just like every other time this is said, this will be a classic case of people not knowing what hit them. They'll tolerate it at one chain, maybe two. People put up with a lot of shit, especially if it isn't affecting them (directly, immediately). By the time every major store jumps on the bandwagon, it'll be too late to stop it and there will be nowhere else to go. "
Sure there will be. An internet bookseller has an infinately larger selection than a Borders store.
Brick and mortars have much to lose by flocking to something like this.
" There are advantages with a private database. There are laws that require the database owner to correct the error. If not, the database owner is guilty of libel/slander (depending on which would apply, most likly libel). incorrectly identifying someone in a database is closest to a newspaper publishing an inaccurate story about you."
Worse, actaully... Courts tend to let newspapers skate because of the 1st Amendment. However, that protection would NOT protect a corp who mis-id'd you with a face scanner.
Courts tend to protect the press, because of the public interest in a free press. However, there is no precedent for protecting a corp in the same type of incidence.
"I was in a Fry's last month, the whole purpose was to check out if all their security was just like in the consulting paper (I didn't need to buy any gadgets, since I had just come from SE Asia :-) Its all there, most the customer never sees, but keeps the employees slightly more honest and the customers slightly affronted but not enough to lose revenue."
This reminds me of my battle with my local wal-mart over their incompetently run shoplifter scanners...
Something like 5 times in a ROW, the fucking scanner went off when I tried to leave after buying a movie... The last time, I blew up on them, demanded the manager (who was VERY unapologetic). After he copped his `tude with me I demanded my cash back, which they did, after some reluctance. I've never been back there again.
Would THAT get me on the scanner as a "suspected shoplifter"? Because a wal-mart minumum wage slave wage slave can't desensitize their fucking VHS tapes?
" The story mentions Borders using a union-busting firm. [jacksonlewis.com] Maybe this is really to recognize known union organizers."
./ crowd to make a difference... Where do we geeks have MORE disporportionate purchasing power than at the bookstores?
I'd imagine this will be used for MANY purposes, not to mention, marketing purposes.
All the more reason to buy your stuff online, from a reputable supplier.
This is definately a chance for the
"Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this. Store should do whatever is necissary to track shoplifters. They don't have a god-given right to shoplift, and turning away people with a past history of shoplifting can lower prices, so be it."
Nothing at all wrong with it... UNLESS they make a mistake. And you know they will. CCD cameras take fuzzy pictures which increases that chance. They must be very confident that their system is 100% foolproof in the face of teh catastrophic liability this exposes them to...
If a private corp fingers you as a criminal and tries to detain you, and cause you embarassment in public, SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM!
A government has certain immunities from lawsuits, a private corp does not.
"How will you feel if security drags you into a backroom and starts questioning you about the book they know you stole two months ago? Luckily the software is perfect so that won't happen.
I'll refuse to come, then insist they call the police if they want to detain me. Then I'll sue them."
EXACTLY what I'd do. A "rent a cop" has no right to detain you or question you, insist that the police be involved. That is the best way to both CYA and to maximize Borders liability when you sue them.
" Why are there no protestors outside women's only gyms? That's blatant sexual discrimination, and yet nobody seems to be concerned. The reason is that, because it's a private establishment, they can admit whoever the hell they want. "
That's because there is nothing WRONG with a "womens only "gym. Just as there would be nothing wrong with one that is "mens only".
Men and women are demonstarably different, DESPITE the mantras of the 1960's bra-burners.
But, when you start discriminating by race, where there IS no difference, then you have a problem. For one thing I'd not go anwyhere where my friends aren't welcome.
However, Borders had better be fucking certain of the accuracy of their system... The government has certain immunities against being sued, a private corp has none. I hope my local Borders mis-ID's me. In fact, why don't we all go hang around hoping for that to happen, after all, your odds of being humiliated in public by this system fucking up are a LOT better than winning the lottery.
And I'd get a tank of sharks to make sure my "lottery ticket" was cashed from Border's coffers if it happened to me.
I've bought a lot of Linux books there too. I spend $200 a month on books, if not more, but I'll not feed a company that uses such evil technology.
The average computer (which runs Doze) can't run for a week without crashing, what makes anyone think that they can accurately identify people from fuzzy photos?
I'm thinking that there is going to be a HUGE market in the near future for hats/headgear that mask your face from cameras.
When I tried to remove the "newsupd" trojan that was put on my system by the Creative Audio PCI card I bought to put in my server (which dual boots RH 7.1 and Doze 98 for VMware purposes), I found it to be difficult...
These spyware/adware programs don't put themselves in "add/remove" programs, and in the case of the Creative Labs one, you MUST install it in order to install the drivers...
And I've been using PC's for over 15 years and have been employed professionally in IT for over 9. If I had to go find crypic instructions for editing it out of the `Doze registry, and found it annoying to do, I'm sure the average user won't figure it out.
This kind of exploitation will only get worse, as marketers (who are among the most evil among us) stoop to lower and lower levels in order to FORCE people into reading their copy.
THAT is my main objection... This is use of FORCE.
" Perhaps I am missing something here? If users don't like these extra links then they can remove the software. If they don't know how then they can either ask or go buy a book. "
I don't like that attitude. Like everyone, I was once a novice computer user (true, it was over 15 years ago, but I digress).
I abhor exploiting newbies as a matter of principle. But there is a self-interest angle...
The more newbies get exploited by marketerware, the HARDER it gets for them to experience their PC and the Internet without exploiter programs bothering them, the MORE likely they are to jump from the PC to simple dedicated machines that will lock them into one company's less obscene marketing.
Without newbies coming into the PC market, what happens to those of us who's income depends on it? We can either help the newbies, and try to do something about this abusive exploitation, or else, laugh at them as they are driven OFF the PC, and as we end up haughty ex-IT professionals now working at places where we have to say "you want fries with that".
Because, other than our computer skills, I'm betting the majority of us have no other job qualifications than that.
I don't normally feed trolls, but...
/. reader with NO QUESTION as to what I'm describing. The name of the new Windows server product has had several "official" names over the past months, INCLUDING, "XP Server, and 2002 Server". How do we know that ".NET Server" will make it to release?
"there is no XP Server. Any comments you're making are about a product that is several months from being done.
Please gather your facts together before posting"
Excuse me, I'm NOT posting from ignorance. The name of the new MS server product has already changed several times since I've been testing it, and YES, I've been testing it for months now, since Beta 1.
I called it "XP Server" because that is a failsafe generic description for it that leaves the
We don't. Until the name is unquestionably final, I'll call it by what others will be able to recognize it by.