Your entire reply is really just further evidence why Debian wasn't chosen. Way too much political baggage.
First of all IS that Database Debunkings site SUPPOSED to look anything other than the rantings of some pissed academics? And what is the obsession with calling every Linux distro GNU/Linux? Should the BSD's be called GNU/BSD too? I mean they also contain GNU software....
Like I said before businesses don't want to deal with that political/advocacy stuff when they look for a Linux solution. HP is probably just doing the right thing and acting as a buffer. Actually RH, MDK and SuSE act as buffers as well. Separating the technology (Linux) from the zealotry (FSF, GNU/everything...etc). A wise business decision.
Also, it is not up to you to decide if 2.4.x is stable or not. It has features the 2.2.x kernel does not have. If Debian wants to NOT get passed over again in the future (which is something I doubt you care about anyways) then picking up the pace of kernel testing is one of the MANY things you could get started on.
There's only one way to stop these software pirates once and for all, require all PAID users of your software to attach hardware dongles to their computers whenever they start the app. A USB or Firewire device would do. And the dongles themselves should have firmware that needs to be upgraded and re-authorized every 3 months.
This would have the added benefit of allowing the user to install the software on as many computers as they please, they'll just only be able to use it on one computer at a time. (^_^)
Are you kidding me? That quote was one of the best things I've heard all year. Finally businesses will be able to use Linux and open source tech in general without the "free software" zealotry that usually accompanies it!
The situation with the phone company implied you have no choice. With an ISP you do have choice however. You can get DSL or Cable and or in some places Satelite. Not only that but for your web serving needs there's any number of web hosts out there. So again you have plenty of choice. Your main ISP not letting you serve webpages is not the same as your one and only available phone company telling you you can't do something with their phone lines.
You are assuming of course that one would consider Debian to be an excellent distro to begin with. I've tried all the major distro's except for SuSe and Debian is not even near the top of my list. Now thats just me.
I can tell you what made me not prefer Debian:
1. Lack of graphical tools such as RPM Drake, Software Manager and Package Manager from Mandrake or up2date on Red Hat or Yast on Suse
2. Community. Your pot shots at RH are just one example. You make it sound like investing in Debian would benefit the entire community where as investing in a commercial distro would not. Don't ALL the major distro's employ kernel hackers? Don't they ALL provide their source for availability? I mean Mandrake itself could not have begun if RH was not playing by the rules so long ago.
3. Business Friendly Attitude: RH, MDK and SuSE are ready to help companies do whatever they need to do better, with a minimum of political fuss. Debian on the other hand.... well you know. Perhaps this is why so many Debian based distro's popped up, to serve the segments of the tech industry that the Debian core just is either incapable or unwilling to deal with in a mature fashion.
4. Credibility, track record and reputation. Debian is an organization not a business. How confident can other businesses be that Debian will always be around? Don't mistake this for FUD but if someone is about to make a deal with RH or SuSE they can check their finanicial records and see how they are doing. They can contract for technical support and service. Even IF HP took over these duties to support a Debian install choice it just doesn't sound as good as when you know the distro comes from a company with a business centric focus. Also you may think it looks good from a security/stability standpoint to still be offering a 2.2 kernel from the Debian stable branch but to others it looks like you lack the resources to properly test and patch then offer your own 2.4 kernel.
I'm pretty sure that as the big guys like IBM and HP try to get across that Linux is "mainstream" now they'll be offering only the distros from the established names that are known for catering to businesses. They more hackerish/geeky/political type distro's and communities are not what you want to present to someone whom you want to buy your products and services. Thats not to say that Debian or Slackware will fade out, no absolutely not. Its just I think they'll be for folks to run at home and to learn on and then when they go to work they'll be using RH, MDK or SuSE instead.
The realities of dealing with actual human beings who will most likely be working in most IT departments (as opposed to the hardcore computer geeks whom make up a far less percentage of the workforce then they would have you believe..) must never be forgotten. Most of these folks do NOT consider toying with the Debian installer to be a worthwhile investment of their time. A distro that actually caters to them such as RH, Mandrake or SuSE is what they will seek. Considering that why on earth should HP offer to support Debian for this role?
I think the point that is being missed here is not that the sysadmin isn't good enough to realize the worth of the distro. Its just that the distro isn't good enough to be considered by the sysadmin.
You want to run a server? No problem. For your minor needs a simple $8 or $9 a month web hosting plan should be all you need. As for your residential ISP service, no matter how much you want to run a server from it, that still does not make it right if the ISP does not want you to do so.
"Libranet makes it ten times easier. Finally the best, most advanced, most convenient, best thought-out, most 'Free', and more widely accepted distro out there is usable by end users."
Well kinda sorta. It is nice how Red Hat, Mandrake and Suse test their own kernels before giving them to the users thus making sure they're more stable. Does Debian do this besides saying "Just stick with 2.2.x!"?
At some point the OS may need to be re-installed. At that time the sysadmins will only curse Debian or Linux in general for having to deal with your horrific installer program.
Isn't this level of elitism lethal to most carbon based life forms? And if not do you air this kind of attitude in public? Because if so I'd like to know how much you spend on medical bills to recover from the near constant beatings you must receive.
This is a joke right? Do even the Debian folks consider Debian to be desktop worthy? When was the last time you took a look at the Debian installer? If you want HP to commit to a Debian desktop effort the least you guys could do is commit yourselves.
*My* world of marketing smoke, mirrors, hipe (hype would be the correct spelling) and trash talk? What the hell do you know about me that would give you a stance to say such things? You are a troll and have approrpiately posted as an AC to further demonstrate your own idiocy!
What the FUCK does suggesting he use a CVS have to do with any of the garbage you are spewing on about? What does using a CVS have to do with freedom or liberty? Or do you just like to grandstand for no reason at all?
I like saying virii. I like saying boxen. And irregardless of what you consider good or bad grammar they are the words that not only will I continue to use, but I will spread them to all my friends and through them to the rest of the nation until they are accepted in the national lexicon!
Re:You're just a fool with so little upstairs...
on
Linus Does Not Scale
·
· Score: 0
Did the guy hit a nerve with you? Can you honestly say he's wrong?
THANKS! That -a flag worked. But a few weeks ago it would have just asked me for which source to specify instead of just telling me there is none at all. I wonder why/how/ & when it changed.
Can you guys PLEASE fix the urpmi/MandrakeUpdate issues with 8.1? Whenever I add a source (specifically a cooker source) to the database it can never find the source again when I go to update it (urpmi.update) returns this each and every time:
[root@Dreadnaught ndptal85]# urpmi.update
the entry to update is missing
(one of K)
Now I've re-installed and others on the expert mailing list have also spoken up to say the bug exists.
Macs aren't made of alien hardware. Its the same RAM, Hard drives and video cards that are used in PC's. If you want to try different ram THEN DO SO. The BIOS on a Mac is called the OF (OpenFirmware) although I doubt thats where your problems lie. Did you even try formatting the disk and re-installing the OS? In short did you try *thinking*?
The value of "things like that" is to eliminate mindless repetition. Unless you need a specific and special compile of something, its better to let a package manager take care of it. Its all in the name, "manager". Using fink I can upgrade my list of packages and the packages themselves all at once. Now I've got several hundred things installed using fink, of course I COULD go one by one and enter "make && make install" but then again I don't need the boost to my manhood that such a procedure seems to bring to some individuals.....
On Mac OS X: Fink!
On FreeBSD: Ports!
On Debian: Apt-get!
On Mandrake: Urpmi!
Slashdot Mirror
Your entire reply is really just further evidence why Debian wasn't chosen. Way too much political baggage.
First of all IS that Database Debunkings site SUPPOSED to look anything other than the rantings of some pissed academics? And what is the obsession with calling every Linux distro GNU/Linux? Should the BSD's be called GNU/BSD too? I mean they also contain GNU software....
Like I said before businesses don't want to deal with that political/advocacy stuff when they look for a Linux solution. HP is probably just doing the right thing and acting as a buffer. Actually RH, MDK and SuSE act as buffers as well. Separating the technology (Linux) from the zealotry (FSF, GNU/everything...etc). A wise business decision.
Also, it is not up to you to decide if 2.4.x is stable or not. It has features the 2.2.x kernel does not have. If Debian wants to NOT get passed over again in the future (which is something I doubt you care about anyways) then picking up the pace of kernel testing is one of the MANY things you could get started on.
There's only one way to stop these software pirates once and for all, require all PAID users of your software to attach hardware dongles to their computers whenever they start the app. A USB or Firewire device would do. And the dongles themselves should have firmware that needs to be upgraded and re-authorized every 3 months.
This would have the added benefit of allowing the user to install the software on as many computers as they please, they'll just only be able to use it on one computer at a time. (^_^)
Are you kidding me? That quote was one of the best things I've heard all year. Finally businesses will be able to use Linux and open source tech in general without the "free software" zealotry that usually accompanies it!
The situation with the phone company implied you have no choice. With an ISP you do have choice however. You can get DSL or Cable and or in some places Satelite. Not only that but for your web serving needs there's any number of web hosts out there. So again you have plenty of choice. Your main ISP not letting you serve webpages is not the same as your one and only available phone company telling you you can't do something with their phone lines.
You are assuming of course that one would consider Debian to be an excellent distro to begin with. I've tried all the major distro's except for SuSe and Debian is not even near the top of my list. Now thats just me.
I can tell you what made me not prefer Debian:
1. Lack of graphical tools such as RPM Drake, Software Manager and Package Manager from Mandrake or up2date on Red Hat or Yast on Suse
2. Community. Your pot shots at RH are just one example. You make it sound like investing in Debian would benefit the entire community where as investing in a commercial distro would not. Don't ALL the major distro's employ kernel hackers? Don't they ALL provide their source for availability? I mean Mandrake itself could not have begun if RH was not playing by the rules so long ago.
3. Business Friendly Attitude: RH, MDK and SuSE are ready to help companies do whatever they need to do better, with a minimum of political fuss. Debian on the other hand.... well you know. Perhaps this is why so many Debian based distro's popped up, to serve the segments of the tech industry that the Debian core just is either incapable or unwilling to deal with in a mature fashion.
4. Credibility, track record and reputation. Debian is an organization not a business. How confident can other businesses be that Debian will always be around? Don't mistake this for FUD but if someone is about to make a deal with RH or SuSE they can check their finanicial records and see how they are doing. They can contract for technical support and service. Even IF HP took over these duties to support a Debian install choice it just doesn't sound as good as when you know the distro comes from a company with a business centric focus. Also you may think it looks good from a security/stability standpoint to still be offering a 2.2 kernel from the Debian stable branch but to others it looks like you lack the resources to properly test and patch then offer your own 2.4 kernel.
I'm pretty sure that as the big guys like IBM and HP try to get across that Linux is "mainstream" now they'll be offering only the distros from the established names that are known for catering to businesses. They more hackerish/geeky/political type distro's and communities are not what you want to present to someone whom you want to buy your products and services. Thats not to say that Debian or Slackware will fade out, no absolutely not. Its just I think they'll be for folks to run at home and to learn on and then when they go to work they'll be using RH, MDK or SuSE instead.
The realities of dealing with actual human beings who will most likely be working in most IT departments (as opposed to the hardcore computer geeks whom make up a far less percentage of the workforce then they would have you believe..) must never be forgotten. Most of these folks do NOT consider toying with the Debian installer to be a worthwhile investment of their time. A distro that actually caters to them such as RH, Mandrake or SuSE is what they will seek. Considering that why on earth should HP offer to support Debian for this role?
I think the point that is being missed here is not that the sysadmin isn't good enough to realize the worth of the distro. Its just that the distro isn't good enough to be considered by the sysadmin.
You want to run a server? No problem. For your minor needs a simple $8 or $9 a month web hosting plan should be all you need. As for your residential ISP service, no matter how much you want to run a server from it, that still does not make it right if the ISP does not want you to do so.
No it doesn't.
Do you see that happening with Windows? No. So why the hell would it happen with Linux? Average users needs will always be met.
"Libranet makes it ten times easier. Finally the best, most advanced, most convenient, best thought-out, most 'Free', and more widely accepted distro out there is usable by end users."
Well kinda sorta. It is nice how Red Hat, Mandrake and Suse test their own kernels before giving them to the users thus making sure they're more stable. Does Debian do this besides saying "Just stick with 2.2.x!"?
At some point the OS may need to be re-installed. At that time the sysadmins will only curse Debian or Linux in general for having to deal with your horrific installer program.
Uh is this "boot-floppies" stuff you talk about the same as the Debian CD's? I used Debian CD's I bought from CheapBytes to install Debian.
Isn't this level of elitism lethal to most carbon based life forms? And if not do you air this kind of attitude in public? Because if so I'd like to know how much you spend on medical bills to recover from the near constant beatings you must receive.
This is a joke right? Do even the Debian folks consider Debian to be desktop worthy? When was the last time you took a look at the Debian installer? If you want HP to commit to a Debian desktop effort the least you guys could do is commit yourselves.
*My* world of marketing smoke, mirrors, hipe (hype would be the correct spelling) and trash talk? What the hell do you know about me that would give you a stance to say such things? You are a troll and have approrpiately posted as an AC to further demonstrate your own idiocy!
What the FUCK does suggesting he use a CVS have to do with any of the garbage you are spewing on about? What does using a CVS have to do with freedom or liberty? Or do you just like to grandstand for no reason at all?
Mac OS X is a Unix as well. No "System bombs" there. Now go take your FUD somewhere else.
I like saying virii. I like saying boxen. And irregardless of what you consider good or bad grammar they are the words that not only will I continue to use, but I will spread them to all my friends and through them to the rest of the nation until they are accepted in the national lexicon!
Did the guy hit a nerve with you? Can you honestly say he's wrong?
Replacing the RAM, HD and video card will not void your warranty.
THANKS! That -a flag worked. But a few weeks ago it would have just asked me for which source to specify instead of just telling me there is none at all. I wonder why/how/ & when it changed.
Can you guys PLEASE fix the urpmi/MandrakeUpdate issues with 8.1? Whenever I add a source (specifically a cooker source) to the database it can never find the source again when I go to update it (urpmi.update) returns this each and every time:
[root@Dreadnaught ndptal85]# urpmi.update
the entry to update is missing
(one of K)
Now I've re-installed and others on the expert mailing list have also spoken up to say the bug exists.
The reason why OS X was able to run on those "unsupported machines" is because those unsupported machines were also Macs. Just older ones.
Macs aren't made of alien hardware. Its the same RAM, Hard drives and video cards that are used in PC's. If you want to try different ram THEN DO SO. The BIOS on a Mac is called the OF (OpenFirmware) although I doubt thats where your problems lie. Did you even try formatting the disk and re-installing the OS? In short did you try *thinking*?
The value of "things like that" is to eliminate mindless repetition. Unless you need a specific and special compile of something, its better to let a package manager take care of it. Its all in the name, "manager". Using fink I can upgrade my list of packages and the packages themselves all at once. Now I've got several hundred things installed using fink, of course I COULD go one by one and enter "make && make install" but then again I don't need the boost to my manhood that such a procedure seems to bring to some individuals.....
On Mac OS X: Fink!
On FreeBSD: Ports!
On Debian: Apt-get!
On Mandrake: Urpmi!
Package management, its there for j00!
...its dead. Quit bringing it up.