either you don't understand how jabberd linking works, or I don't understand what you're trying to do. You can link different jabberd servers in any way you want. If you want a HA, failsafe system, put your jabberd's on different switched subnets in a hypercube pattern, and you can lose several servers or subnets without affecting the network as a whole.
You mainly seem to be concerned that since there in a single access point to the system, the whole thing can fail with a single attack on the main server. To a certain extent that's true. The user login data is kept on a jabber server, somewhere, and if that machine fails you lose the ability for certain users to login. I'm not sure if you can replicate user data across several jabberd's (with proper delegation and syncing), but it's probably not hard to implement.
You can very easily cluster jabber servers. In fact, I have five running:
one for the main server
one specifically for AIM
one for ICQ
one for MSN
one for yahoo! IM
the four IM trasport servers have their own jabberd process. If a transport server dies (as they occasionally do), you can bring that server back up without affecting any other servers.
But you don't have to break up the servers this way. You could run multiple jabber servers, and place bandwidth restrictions on them so that when a jabber server got "full", it would stop receiving connections, so the jabber server above it in the chain would then forward it on to the next jabber server in the chain, or back up if it's out of children servers.
it's a relatively simple matter to setup an init.d script to monitor the health of all the processes, and restart them when and if they fail. I've been running a jabber server on one of our linux boxes for weeks now, and I haven't had to touch it once. I highly recommend jabber for intranets.
The problem is this: in Windows, you can set the FS register for thread local storage, which gives you about *THIRTY* percent more performance.
However, in Linux, you have to call a function before you create the thread telling the kernel that you're going to use that register. That's fine for threads that start from compiled code, but there are problems with threads that start from JNI.
Basically, you can't use the FS register once the thread has already started, which is the main problem.
Note that I have very little idea of what I'm talking about. This is almost verbatim from my friend at IBM who's working on their Java compiler.
MIT already has its own version of linux, based on Redhat. MIT's network is called Athena, and a student group called SIPB ported the essential Athena programs to Linux and created Linux/Athena a few years ago. Recently, MIT I/S created its own port of the latest version of Athena (8.3) on top of Redhat 6.1, calling it Layered Linux/Athena.
But the really cool thing is that MIT has started putting Linux machines in the Athena clusters to complement the SGI O2/Indy and Sun sparc/Ultrasparc workstations that are already there.
I disagree. I like pretty graphics as much as the next guy, and I all of my computer upgrades have been motivated by the need for prettier games (most recently, a P3-500 and a GeForce DDR).
But what I've realized is that it really doesn't matter what the graphics look like. I don't even see the curved surfaces and lightmaps. I just see things to shoot. The novelty of the graphics wears off in a week or so, but if the game is well designed you will play it because it's a great game. Q3A is just like that. Messiah has a better rendering engine that Q3A, but the game isn't nearly as fun.
Team Fortress 2 is going to be the halflife engine with new maps/textures/etc, but it's going to be a fundamentally different game and much more fun. Yet I wouldn't call this simply new makeup on the old whore.
So here's the deal. I've talked a lot with NVIDIA folks about the lack of good 3D drivers under Linux. They are sympathetic. This is why this driver is going to be released.
The driver will definitely be closed source, as it is using a licensed version of SGI's OpenGL implementation. They obviously cannot open source this.
The word I've received from them is that the fast, DRI driver will be out sometime after XFree 4.0 is released. The latest beta (3.9.17) did not include any hardware acceleration of all.
I've tried to get more specifications for the chipsets so that the Utah GLX driver could be made to use DMA, but they've told me that the specs are too complicated for people to understand and they would rather spend their resources developing their own driver than supporting everyone and their sister who wants to learn the specs.
Whether you agree or disagree, you must remember one thing: it is completely up to NVIDIA as to whether they want to release ANYTHING. They have been very accomodating to those open source advocates (and zealots) who demand drivers. They have released enough specs and source to create a driver from, and the only big thing lacking is the DMA stuff. I agree that they should have released the full specs a long time ago so that the GLX group could have a better driver for us by now, but by now it's a moot point as we will have a badass driver in a month or so.
And for those anti-NVIDIA-pro-Matrox-types, don't give Matrox THAT much credit. Mark Vojkovich, who I believe originally worked to get Matrox to release the specs that they have, posted the following to the Utah GLX dev list: Matrox have not released full specs for the card. They also haven`t contributed anything along the lines of source code and very little along the lines of support. I think people give them too much credit.
I just want to reiterate what Hemos said. If you use Linux (or *BSD for that matter), it is crucial that you have your voice heard and sign the petition at libranet.com.
They're aiming for 2 million signatures, which is a bit high, but if a significant number of people actually take the time to sign this petition then there is a greater chance that hardware companies will take note. If you've ever written an inflamatory note about some hardware company not releasing drivers for Linux, this is your chance to cast your vote.
MSApps could not cooperate with MSWindows... that's called collusion and it's very illegal. Incidentally, collusion between record companies is exactly why CD prices are so high.
Check out smbsh...it does just that...it creates a logical shell that allows you to access all of the "Network Neighborhood" in/smb. It's a bit buggy (pwd doesn't always work when in/smb) last time i checked, and it doesn't make teh computers available from any program, but it might help.
CMU also is interested in snarfing people who might otherwise go to MIT (which, at least at that time, had minimal merit-based aid IIRC).
Not quite. MIT doesn't have ANY merit-based scholarships (although a few groups on campus may offer their own). If you think about it, merit-based scholarships at a place like MIT don't make sense. All of my scholarships are need-based, which is fine with me since I couldn't afford to come here otherwise. I like my $18,000 grant, thank you very much.
I believe he was speaking of the person who posted the original question about ASP/PHP/CF/Perl/etc.
I think the following is perhaps the most insightful quote I've yet seen in this whole discussion:
Would you hire an engineer who had no university education to design a bridge? Of course not. But you'd probably hire someone with no degree to help build it. That's the analogy. You're the construction worker who doesn't need to know about materials, structural analysis, fluid mechanics, etc. You don't need to know about software engineering practices, languages, automata, algorithms, data structures, control structures, mathematical optimization, and so on.
(which will be a pain if you don't have Windows because they are distributed as self-decompressing Windows executables)
Actually, try running unzip on them anyway...most of the time the self-extracting exe files are just zip files with a small unzip program attached to the header. unzip should be smart enough to ignore that part. It works for me.
So I've been reading the comments about the whole windows2000test.com fiasco, and the part that really piqued my interest was the bit about the logs. I wanted to read the Win2K server's logs to see what the deal was.
One slight problem: the site's been down. Not just once, not twice, but literally every damn time i try to go to their site, it's down. And not just busy like crack.linuxppc.org is...I can't ping it, and traceroute shows the only failure at the computer, so it's not like their router has gone down.
At this point, it seems that the Win2K box is down more than it's up. I realize this is beta software, but JESUS, give me a break. Imagine the kind of flak ebay would get if they were running Windows 2000 on their boxes right now.
If W2K is this easy to crash, who in their right mind is going to want to run it on any kind of enterprise solution? We've always known that UNIX offers better stability than NT, but it's never become as apparent than now.
Do you ever notice those " Foobar wrote in to say that..." at the beginning of the postings? Or were you too busy writing that flame to notice that 99% of the stories are SUBMITTED.
If you're not seeing any news about Mac or BeOS ports, you have no one to blame except yourself. Submit some BeOS or Mac gaming news and I'll bet we'll start seeing some of it appear on the front page.
And judging from the recent poll, more of us are Linux users anyhow, so it makes perfect sense that most of the OS stories are about Linux (since they're the ones submitting the most stories).
In short, you have two options -- live with the fact that you are a minority, or start submitting news for your OS and hope that the/. demigods bless you with a posting. Either way, quit your futile whining.
Re:i740 is a terrible card...yeah right!
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Complete garbage? I don't know what you consider garbage, but you obviously haven't seen one of these. My roomate bought one for his computer, and it plays Quake 3 at a very acceptable frame rate (it's no TNT2, but it's fast enough that you don't see any slowdowns).
Plus it was one of the first cards to have a stencil buffer (not many programs use it right now, but they will soon).
Don't bag on it unless you have legitimate reasons. Brian Hook (formerly of id software) originally said that this was one of the best cards you could run Quake 3 on for the price. If you don't want to spend $100 on a TNT, $30 for an i740 can't be beat.
Seconds per frame? If you're getting framerates THAT slow with Q3test, you're probably still running in software mode. Read the FAQ. You need to be running in 15- or 16-bit mode, or the driver will default back to software rendering.
For them to say that the E2K will be 3-5 times faster than the Merced is silly, considering:
The Merced is not out yet
There are no benchmarks for the Merced yet
The E2K has only been SIMULATED with Verilog
I don't care just how explicitly parallel the E2K is, you are not going to get that kind of performance gain.
For those who are curious, a bit about how explicit parallellism works: Every intel cpu since the 386 has had a 32 bit instruction word. A portion of this is the actual instruction, and the rest is the data that it operates on (which register, memory address, etc.) With Merced's EPIC (explicitly parallel instruction computing) ISA, the instruction word is _128_ bits wide. In this the 128 bits are actually *3* instructions plus a template that contains extra information. This is how it is explicitly parallel. You may have heard how EPIC requires a lot of code analysis during compilation. This is so that the compiler can find portions of code that do not depend on other parts. These are separated and executed in parallel by the Merced.
There are a lot of other features that I won't bother explaining (predication, speculation, etc.). Just be assured that the EPIC architecture is VERY fast. For the Elbrus guys to claim this kind of performance gain over a cpu that is still not out (using benchmarks from a SIMULATOR, mind you), is ludicrous.
Then there's the issue of the insanely high keyrate.
Take one look at those numbers again. 2.7 GIGA keys/second? The fastest cpus today still operate in the area of millions of keys per second. I'm curious how an unknown company using unknown technology on an unknown cpu could get a keyrate an order of magnitude larger than anything else. That alone should make anyone a little skeptical.
I don't know much about martial arts, but I do know that The Matrix was very impressive.
However, for much better fight scenes (I would say the best), watch Drunken Master 2. It's a Jackie Chan movie (old school stuff, subtitled), which I normally don't like, but DAMN that movie has some awesome fight scenes. Just try to watch the final bad guy's feet at the end.
Why do I think Linux won't kill Windows? Two reasons. The Open Source Movement's ideology is utopian balderdash. And Linux is 30-year-old technology. And he's contrasting this to Windows 2000? Ummmm....waitaminit...W2K is just NT5.
Windows NT was originally written by a bunch of guys from DEC who wrote VMS. Hence, NT can be said to have derived much from VMS, which is well over 20 years old. What does that mean for NT?
Clearly, that age doesn't mean a damn thing. Newer does not necessarily mean better. I'd rather have an OS that has evolved from decades of trial and error than something just out of Redmond, and I'm sure many others would as well.
I've been running Linux intermittently for several years (and exclusively for the last 6 months). I've also run windows 95/98, and NT4, and a beta of W2K when it was still NT5. NT5 is a pretty cool OS -- the relative (to win98) reliability and security of NT, and directx for games--yay.
This seems to be where everything is headed currently -- what used to be solely server/workstation operating systems are now becoming gaming platforms. NT is adopting directx6; Unix is getting XFree86 4.0 with all sorts of cool additions. This is A Good Thing (tm), which you should acknowledge even if you hate NT.
Curiously, the same reason that I used Windows is the reason I switched from Windows to Linux. Linux support for hardware used to suck. My TV card didn't work, there was no 3d acceleration (for my TNT), the games sucked. So, I used Windows and put up with the occasional reboot. Eventually, I got fed up with Windows. I hated having to run Exceed to be able to access some of the programs I needed for classes (Matlab, Maple, LaTeX, etc.). So I installed Linux and dealt with the lack of good hardware and game support.
I can get my TV card working with a 2.2 series kernel (which I still haven't gotten to work without breaking AFS, which kind of defeats the whole purpose), and now with NVidia releasing open source drivers, I don't have to worry about 3D acceleration. I really don't have a single qualm about not running Windows...the only games I play are Q/Q2/Q3 anyhow.
Simply put, I have no need for Windows. I haven't booted up Windows in months (I'm pretty sure mucking around with VMWare killed it anyhow), and if I do need it for anything (say, if I buy a digital camera and need to get the pictures off it), I can use VMWare (damn that's an impressive program).
Windows is not going to disappear any time soon. Neither will Linux. Both OSes have built up way too much steam to just roll over and die. Deal with it. Use whichever suits you best. Believe it or not, Linux is not the best OS for some (gasp! blasphemy!) -- my mom still has problems copying and pasting -- I don't think she's ready to be configuring XFree86 (which, while RedHat 5.2 has made some significant changes to make configuring XFree easier, still requires some knowledge about your computer's hardware, which most people haven't a clue about [horizontal refresh frequency? dot clock?]). If you want to use Linux, use it. But don't unnecessarily evangelize an OS that is not ready to replace Windows yet.
Better yet, use Linux conspicuously. Answer questions about Linux. Let them come to you -- don't force it down their throats. Then prove the esteemed Mr. Metcalfe wrong.
Slashdot Mirror
You mainly seem to be concerned that since there in a single access point to the system, the whole thing can fail with a single attack on the main server. To a certain extent that's true. The user login data is kept on a jabber server, somewhere, and if that machine fails you lose the ability for certain users to login. I'm not sure if you can replicate user data across several jabberd's (with proper delegation and syncing), but it's probably not hard to implement.
one for the main server
one specifically for AIM
one for ICQ
one for MSN
one for yahoo! IM
the four IM trasport servers have their own jabberd process. If a transport server dies (as they occasionally do), you can bring that server back up without affecting any other servers.
But you don't have to break up the servers this way. You could run multiple jabber servers, and place bandwidth restrictions on them so that when a jabber server got "full", it would stop receiving connections, so the jabber server above it in the chain would then forward it on to the next jabber server in the chain, or back up if it's out of children servers.
it's a relatively simple matter to setup an init.d script to monitor the health of all the processes, and restart them when and if they fail. I've been running a jabber server on one of our linux boxes for weeks now, and I haven't had to touch it once. I highly recommend jabber for intranets.
However, in Linux, you have to call a function before you create the thread telling the kernel that you're going to use that register. That's fine for threads that start from compiled code, but there are problems with threads that start from JNI.
Basically, you can't use the FS register once the thread has already started, which is the main problem.
Note that I have very little idea of what I'm talking about. This is almost verbatim from my friend at IBM who's working on their Java compiler.
But the really cool thing is that MIT has started putting Linux machines in the Athena clusters to complement the SGI O2/Indy and Sun sparc/Ultrasparc workstations that are already there.
Very cool indeed.
But what I've realized is that it really doesn't matter what the graphics look like. I don't even see the curved surfaces and lightmaps. I just see things to shoot. The novelty of the graphics wears off in a week or so, but if the game is well designed you will play it because it's a great game. Q3A is just like that. Messiah has a better rendering engine that Q3A, but the game isn't nearly as fun.
Team Fortress 2 is going to be the halflife engine with new maps/textures/etc, but it's going to be a fundamentally different game and much more fun. Yet I wouldn't call this simply new makeup on the old whore.
divide array into five-element lists
find the median of each of those lists == O(n) time
recurse
This gets you a good approximation of the median of a list in nlgn time, giving QS a guaranteed running time of O(nlgn).
Deterministic quicksort is as good as you can get (nlgn running time, n space required) without making assumptions about the data you're sorting.
but these sorts have been around for decades, and anything in public domain cannot be patented (or is that copyrighted, i always forget).
So here's the deal. I've talked a lot with NVIDIA folks about the lack of good 3D drivers under Linux. They are sympathetic. This is why this driver is going to be released.
The driver will definitely be closed source, as it is using a licensed version of SGI's OpenGL implementation. They obviously cannot open source this.
The word I've received from them is that the fast, DRI driver will be out sometime after XFree 4.0 is released. The latest beta (3.9.17) did not include any hardware acceleration of all.
I've tried to get more specifications for the chipsets so that the Utah GLX driver could be made to use DMA, but they've told me that the specs are too complicated for people to understand and they would rather spend their resources developing their own driver than supporting everyone and their sister who wants to learn the specs.
Whether you agree or disagree, you must remember one thing: it is completely up to NVIDIA as to whether they want to release ANYTHING. They have been very accomodating to those open source advocates (and zealots) who demand drivers. They have released enough specs and source to create a driver from, and the only big thing lacking is the DMA stuff. I agree that they should have released the full specs a long time ago so that the GLX group could have a better driver for us by now, but by now it's a moot point as we will have a badass driver in a month or so.
And for those anti-NVIDIA-pro-Matrox-types, don't give Matrox THAT much credit. Mark Vojkovich, who I believe originally worked to get Matrox to release the specs that they have, posted the following to the Utah GLX dev list: Matrox have not released full specs for the card. They also haven`t contributed anything along the lines of source code and very little along the lines of support. I think people give them too much credit.
They're aiming for 2 million signatures, which is a bit high, but if a significant number of people actually take the time to sign this petition then there is a greater chance that hardware companies will take note. If you've ever written an inflamatory note about some hardware company not releasing drivers for Linux, this is your chance to cast your vote.
It only takes a minute and it won't hurt a bit.
MSApps could not cooperate with MSWindows... that's called collusion and it's very illegal. Incidentally, collusion between record companies is exactly why CD prices are so high.
I'm pretty sure he meant .5 Ghz Athlon.
Check out smbsh...it does just that...it creates a logical shell that allows you to access all of the "Network Neighborhood" in /smb. It's a bit buggy (pwd doesn't always work when in /smb) last time i checked, and it doesn't make teh computers available from any program, but it might help.
Not quite. MIT doesn't have ANY merit-based scholarships (although a few groups on campus may offer their own). If you think about it, merit-based scholarships at a place like MIT don't make sense. All of my scholarships are need-based, which is fine with me since I couldn't afford to come here otherwise. I like my $18,000 grant, thank you very much.
I think the following is perhaps the most insightful quote I've yet seen in this whole discussion:
Would you hire an engineer who had no university education to design a bridge? Of course not. But you'd probably hire someone with no degree to help build it. That's the analogy. You're the construction worker who doesn't need to know about materials, structural analysis, fluid mechanics, etc. You don't need to know about software engineering practices, languages, automata, algorithms, data structures, control structures, mathematical optimization, and so on.
I doubt it. The author probably just wanted a little alliteration.
dammit...if only I had moderator points, I'd moderate this down to 'offtopic' :)
Just because something is old doesn't mean it's bad.
Actually, try running unzip on them anyway...most of the time the self-extracting exe files are just zip files with a small unzip program attached to the header. unzip should be smart enough to ignore that part. It works for me.
One slight problem: the site's been down. Not just once, not twice, but literally every damn time i try to go to their site, it's down. And not just busy like crack.linuxppc.org is...I can't ping it, and traceroute shows the only failure at the computer, so it's not like their router has gone down.
At this point, it seems that the Win2K box is down more than it's up. I realize this is beta software, but JESUS, give me a break. Imagine the kind of flak ebay would get if they were running Windows 2000 on their boxes right now.
If W2K is this easy to crash, who in their right mind is going to want to run it on any kind of enterprise solution? We've always known that UNIX offers better stability than NT, but it's never become as apparent than now.
Long live linux.
Do you ever notice those " Foobar wrote in to say that..." at the beginning of the postings? Or were you too busy writing that flame to notice that 99% of the stories are SUBMITTED.
If you're not seeing any news about Mac or BeOS ports, you have no one to blame except yourself. Submit some BeOS or Mac gaming news and I'll bet we'll start seeing some of it appear on the front page.
And judging from the recent poll, more of us are Linux users anyhow, so it makes perfect sense that most of the OS stories are about Linux (since they're the ones submitting the most stories).
In short, you have two options -- live with the fact that you are a minority, or start submitting news for your OS and hope that the /. demigods bless you with a posting. Either way, quit your futile whining.
Complete garbage? I don't know what you consider garbage, but you obviously haven't seen one of these. My roomate bought one for his computer, and it plays Quake 3 at a very acceptable frame rate (it's no TNT2, but it's fast enough that you don't see any slowdowns).
Plus it was one of the first cards to have a stencil buffer (not many programs use it right now, but they will soon).
Don't bag on it unless you have legitimate reasons. Brian Hook (formerly of id software) originally said that this was one of the best cards you could run Quake 3 on for the price. If you don't want to spend $100 on a TNT, $30 for an i740 can't be beat.
Seconds per frame? If you're getting framerates THAT slow with Q3test, you're probably still running in software mode. Read the FAQ. You need to be running in 15- or 16-bit mode, or the driver will default back to software rendering.
For them to say that the E2K will be 3-5 times faster than the Merced is silly, considering:
The Merced is not out yet
There are no benchmarks for the Merced yet
The E2K has only been SIMULATED with Verilog
I don't care just how explicitly parallel the E2K is, you are not going to get that kind of performance gain.
For those who are curious, a bit about how explicit parallellism works:
Every intel cpu since the 386 has had a 32 bit instruction word. A portion of this is the actual instruction, and the rest is the data that it operates on (which register, memory address, etc.)
With Merced's EPIC (explicitly parallel instruction computing) ISA, the instruction word is _128_ bits wide. In this the 128 bits are actually *3* instructions plus a template that contains extra information. This is how it is explicitly parallel.
You may have heard how EPIC requires a lot of code analysis during compilation. This is so that the compiler can find portions of code that do not depend on other parts. These are separated and executed in parallel by the Merced.
There are a lot of other features that I won't bother explaining (predication, speculation, etc.). Just be assured that the EPIC architecture is VERY fast. For the Elbrus guys to claim this kind of performance gain over a cpu that is still not out (using benchmarks from a SIMULATOR, mind you), is ludicrous.
Then there's the issue of the insanely high keyrate.
Take one look at those numbers again. 2.7 GIGA keys/second? The fastest cpus today still operate in the area of millions of keys per second. I'm curious how an unknown company using unknown technology on an unknown cpu could get a keyrate an order of magnitude larger than anything else. That alone should make anyone a little skeptical.
However, for much better fight scenes (I would say the best), watch Drunken Master 2. It's a Jackie Chan movie (old school stuff, subtitled), which I normally don't like, but DAMN that movie has some awesome fight scenes. Just try to watch the final bad guy's feet at the end.
Why do I think Linux won't kill Windows? Two reasons. The Open Source Movement's ideology is utopian balderdash. And Linux is 30-year-old technology. And he's contrasting this to Windows 2000? Ummmm....waitaminit...W2K is just NT5.
Windows NT was originally written by a bunch of guys from DEC who wrote VMS. Hence, NT can be said to have derived much from VMS, which is well over 20 years old. What does that mean for NT?
Clearly, that age doesn't mean a damn thing. Newer does not necessarily mean better. I'd rather have an OS that has evolved from decades of trial and error than something just out of Redmond, and I'm sure many others would as well.
I've been running Linux intermittently for several years (and exclusively for the last 6 months). I've also run windows 95/98, and NT4, and a beta of W2K when it was still NT5. NT5 is a pretty cool OS -- the relative (to win98) reliability and security of NT, and directx for games--yay.
This seems to be where everything is headed currently -- what used to be solely server/workstation operating systems are now becoming gaming platforms. NT is adopting directx6; Unix is getting XFree86 4.0 with all sorts of cool additions. This is A Good Thing (tm), which you should acknowledge even if you hate NT.
Curiously, the same reason that I used Windows is the reason I switched from Windows to Linux. Linux support for hardware used to suck. My TV card didn't work, there was no 3d acceleration (for my TNT), the games sucked. So, I used Windows and put up with the occasional reboot. Eventually, I got fed up with Windows. I hated having to run Exceed to be able to access some of the programs I needed for classes (Matlab, Maple, LaTeX, etc.). So I installed Linux and dealt with the lack of good hardware and game support.
I can get my TV card working with a 2.2 series kernel (which I still haven't gotten to work without breaking AFS, which kind of defeats the whole purpose), and now with NVidia releasing open source drivers, I don't have to worry about 3D acceleration. I really don't have a single qualm about not running Windows...the only games I play are Q/Q2/Q3 anyhow.
Simply put, I have no need for Windows. I haven't booted up Windows in months (I'm pretty sure mucking around with VMWare killed it anyhow), and if I do need it for anything (say, if I buy a digital camera and need to get the pictures off it), I can use VMWare (damn that's an impressive program).
Windows is not going to disappear any time soon. Neither will Linux. Both OSes have built up way too much steam to just roll over and die. Deal with it. Use whichever suits you best. Believe it or not, Linux is not the best OS for some (gasp! blasphemy!) -- my mom still has problems copying and pasting -- I don't think she's ready to be configuring XFree86 (which, while RedHat 5.2 has made some significant changes to make configuring XFree easier, still requires some knowledge about your computer's hardware, which most people haven't a clue about [horizontal refresh frequency? dot clock?]). If you want to use Linux, use it. But don't unnecessarily evangelize an OS that is not ready to replace Windows yet.
Better yet, use Linux conspicuously. Answer questions about Linux. Let them come to you -- don't force it down their throats. Then prove the esteemed Mr. Metcalfe wrong.