For the last week or so I've been considering dropping slashdot from the list of news sites I follow but this article pretty much pushed me over the edge. I've been reading since 1998 but it really has taken a turn for the worse lately. Maybe the editors will turn things around with fresh articles that haven't already been posted with better commentary days earlier on other sites, but I'm not holding my breath.
My point wasn't that it was unreasonable. It's their OS and they can run it how they want. But it's hard to call an OS open when users don't get to be the ultimate decision makers anymore.
I'll admit I didn't immediately find one for Windows. Instead I found that fun incedent where MS added their own Firefox extension as an update to Windows Live without prompting. So I guess the responsibility of the OS distributor goes beyond just keeping API breaks from affecting users.
You keep saying it's too much for one group to handle and yet, Linux distributions don't seem to be having all that many API-break related problems. Maybe you have a specific example to support your case?
Basically, the job of a Linux distribution is to vet updates to libfoo to make sure that in the process of fixing some random bug they didn't break the API. If they did, the distribution has a choice of of patching libfoo to fix the API break (or cherry pick the just the fix) or mitigating the security issue in some other way.
FACT: mac owners have higher incomes than windows or linux users.
[citation needed]
Even if what you say is true, it's somewhat interesting that on in the past, Linux sales on humblebundle.com have been pretty close to Mac sales, and Linux users consistently pay 10 - 20% more when given the choice.
I use a Mac at work and have an old iMac on my desk, next to my Linux desktop. Apple restricts non-appstore apps from accessing notification center or iCloud document storage. Some people think that's the thin end of the wedge and some people think Apple will go this far and then no further. As for me, I'm just not putting all my eggs in one basket. If OS X keeps being open enough, I'll keep using it. Otherwise, I'll switch to Linux full time.
I prefer MacPorts over Homebrew. Homebrew has some good goals, such as using OS-included libraries when available, but it's really a house of cards. Meanwhile, MacPorts works reliably and lets you override stuff at a lower level. I used to like Fink, but kept running into issues. It might be better now. *shrugs*
Well maybe we can compromise: How about we put a sane upper limit on how long works can remain under copyright? Right now things stay under copyright long after the author's death.
I think part of the confusion comes from that fact that despite NT having had some of these things first, people still ran into them first on Linux. I mean, up until 2000 (or was it XP?) the first user you made was setup to run all applications as administrator by default. Microsoft has a ton of really smart people creating some incredible stuff. Then marketing seems to get a hold of those ideas and drive them into the ground or hobble them.
In Linux, applications (such as browsers or web servers) can be restricted from writing to arbitrary directories with SELinux or AppArmor. Most modern distros have it baked in and enabled by default at this point, and many have had it available for years. OTOH, the best security is security that's actually used. If the only way for people to get into a building is by someone else holding the door for them, sooner or later someone will just sneak in. Similarly, if your admin can't get something to work without having to mess with NT's ACL folder permissions every time, sooner or later he'll just change them to "Everyone - Full Control."
Linux is a kernel. It is a bit awkward that people typically refer to it as an OS, but that doesn't change the facts. And yes, iOS should probably be considered if you were counting the marketshare of the BSD/Unix kernel.
I think you must be an optimist: They're no *less* evil than television networks, newspapers or Slashdot. (TV shows are sold to TV networks, i.e., the TV show is the product.) When organizations like this are private they (potentially) *can* retain the goals of their founders, but once they're public (and they're founders sell off their stock), they're *required* to try and make the biggest profit possible. They do this by selling certain demographics of eyeballs to certain advertisers. The user's attention is the product.
Ah. Finally managed to track that down. I guess most of the stuff they're removing is stuff I either rarely or never use. I'm sure if one installed the Nautilus fork Nemo it would play nice with the rest of the GNOME desktop.
Re:I have been using it for awhile
on
GNOME 3.6 Released
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I guess I expected more from/. . Somehow I remember the desktop/editor/distro flamewars being a bit more technical in nature. Maybe that's just me looking at the past with rose colored glasses. Either way, it makes me feel old.
Re:I have been using it for awhile
on
GNOME 3.6 Released
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
Heh. So the GNOME haters are going to host an indefinite protest to try and drown out any GNOME-related discussion in verbal noise? Well that sounds super mature. The whole GNOME3 thing is a textbook case of the GPL serving one of its intended purposes: Letting the users fork the code if they don't like the direction the project is going. That happened. The fork is called Mate. There's no need for any more animosity.
A lot of the hate seems to be grudges still left over from 3.0. It's probably going to take a really long time for people to give it another chance.
Re:I have been using it for awhile
on
GNOME 3.6 Released
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
The Gnome team broke a bunch of stuff in the name of "progress" while removing useful features. Gee, I wonder why people had an adverse reaction. It's like they actually wanted to use their computer for applications instead of being forced to learn a new interface with less functionality.
... while also creating a very nice, slick, and minimalist workflow. Now almost every feature that was removed is either back in core (albeit adapted to the new desktop), available as an extension or as an option in gnome-tweak-tool. Now I'd understand if people were complaining about still missing feature XYZ or saying how the new workflow is less optimal than the old one for managing windows, but that's not what's happening. Instead there's a whole bunch of people who seem to take any GNOME article as a chance to complain loudly without citing any specifics and mention how they switched to something entirely different without even mentioning what it does better. That's why I characterized the complaints as "someone moved my food dish." No content, just barking.
Re:But have they unwound the craziness?
on
GNOME 3.6 Released
·
· Score: 2
Sorry for calling you a troll. There's just a lot of noise in this thread from GNOME3 haters and a total lack of specifics. It seems like most people have decided they hate GNOME3 and not much can change their mind. About removing functionality from the core for people to re-add as extensions: I have mixed feelings about that myself. That aside most of what you're looking for is definitely available as extensions if you do decide to try GNOME again:
Axe menu looks awesome and I actually use it myself. There's also Frippery menu which looks more minimalist.
not having a decent range of applets to add to the top bar (which I can't put things on anyway, so I guess there's no point having applets if you've got nowhere to put them)
Yeah. Agreed there, but it's getting better. It's just that instead of applets they're extensions now, and they're not installed by default.
Nautilus having found new ways to strip out features where previously I thought they had hit rock bottom
Are you referring to the double-pane thing that they borrowed from mc that they recently removed?
And it would be worth having a big argument over, except that there's a relatively friendly app that can be used to install and change themes. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable choice on their part: Keep the themes out of their basic, streamlined config tool and let power users play as they see fit.
Slashdot Mirror
For the last week or so I've been considering dropping slashdot from the list of news sites I follow but this article pretty much pushed me over the edge. I've been reading since 1998 but it really has taken a turn for the worse lately. Maybe the editors will turn things around with fresh articles that haven't already been posted with better commentary days earlier on other sites, but I'm not holding my breath.
My point wasn't that it was unreasonable. It's their OS and they can run it how they want. But it's hard to call an OS open when users don't get to be the ultimate decision makers anymore.
Sure. Here's one for Mac:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=700835
I'll admit I didn't immediately find one for Windows. Instead I found that fun incedent where MS added their own Firefox extension as an update to Windows Live without prompting. So I guess the responsibility of the OS distributor goes beyond just keeping API breaks from affecting users.
You keep saying it's too much for one group to handle and yet, Linux distributions don't seem to be having all that many API-break related problems. Maybe you have a specific example to support your case?
... and have them rate their happiness on a scale of 10 to 10.
I see what you did there. _
Basically, the job of a Linux distribution is to vet updates to libfoo to make sure that in the process of fixing some random bug they didn't break the API. If they did, the distribution has a choice of of patching libfoo to fix the API break (or cherry pick the just the fix) or mitigating the security issue in some other way.
FACT: mac owners have higher incomes than windows or linux users.
[citation needed]
Even if what you say is true, it's somewhat interesting that on in the past, Linux sales on humblebundle.com have been pretty close to Mac sales, and Linux users consistently pay 10 - 20% more when given the choice.
I use a Mac at work and have an old iMac on my desk, next to my Linux desktop. Apple restricts non-appstore apps from accessing notification center or iCloud document storage. Some people think that's the thin end of the wedge and some people think Apple will go this far and then no further. As for me, I'm just not putting all my eggs in one basket. If OS X keeps being open enough, I'll keep using it. Otherwise, I'll switch to Linux full time.
Even now, non-appstore apps can't access certain APIs, such as Notification Center. As far as I'm concerned, the writing is on the wall for OS X.
MacPorts isn't *bad*, but it's certainly not apt.
I prefer MacPorts over Homebrew. Homebrew has some good goals, such as using OS-included libraries when available, but it's really a house of cards. Meanwhile, MacPorts works reliably and lets you override stuff at a lower level. I used to like Fink, but kept running into issues. It might be better now. *shrugs*
Yeah, not any more. Go look at the latest iMac teardown from ifixit.
Well maybe we can compromise: How about we put a sane upper limit on how long works can remain under copyright? Right now things stay under copyright long after the author's death.
I think part of the confusion comes from that fact that despite NT having had some of these things first, people still ran into them first on Linux. I mean, up until 2000 (or was it XP?) the first user you made was setup to run all applications as administrator by default. Microsoft has a ton of really smart people creating some incredible stuff. Then marketing seems to get a hold of those ideas and drive them into the ground or hobble them.
In Linux, applications (such as browsers or web servers) can be restricted from writing to arbitrary directories with SELinux or AppArmor. Most modern distros have it baked in and enabled by default at this point, and many have had it available for years. OTOH, the best security is security that's actually used. If the only way for people to get into a building is by someone else holding the door for them, sooner or later someone will just sneak in. Similarly, if your admin can't get something to work without having to mess with NT's ACL folder permissions every time, sooner or later he'll just change them to "Everyone - Full Control."
Linux is a kernel. It is a bit awkward that people typically refer to it as an OS, but that doesn't change the facts. And yes, iOS should probably be considered if you were counting the marketshare of the BSD/Unix kernel.
I think you must be an optimist: They're no *less* evil than television networks, newspapers or Slashdot. (TV shows are sold to TV networks, i.e., the TV show is the product.) When organizations like this are private they (potentially) *can* retain the goals of their founders, but once they're public (and they're founders sell off their stock), they're *required* to try and make the biggest profit possible. They do this by selling certain demographics of eyeballs to certain advertisers. The user's attention is the product.
Ah. Finally managed to track that down. I guess most of the stuff they're removing is stuff I either rarely or never use. I'm sure if one installed the Nautilus fork Nemo it would play nice with the rest of the GNOME desktop.
I guess I expected more from /. . Somehow I remember the desktop/editor/distro flamewars being a bit more technical in nature. Maybe that's just me looking at the past with rose colored glasses. Either way, it makes me feel old.
Heh. So the GNOME haters are going to host an indefinite protest to try and drown out any GNOME-related discussion in verbal noise? Well that sounds super mature. The whole GNOME3 thing is a textbook case of the GPL serving one of its intended purposes: Letting the users fork the code if they don't like the direction the project is going. That happened. The fork is called Mate. There's no need for any more animosity.
A lot of the hate seems to be grudges still left over from 3.0. It's probably going to take a really long time for people to give it another chance.
The Gnome team broke a bunch of stuff in the name of "progress" while removing useful features. Gee, I wonder why people had an adverse reaction. It's like they actually wanted to use their computer for applications instead of being forced to learn a new interface with less functionality.
... while also creating a very nice, slick, and minimalist workflow. Now almost every feature that was removed is either back in core (albeit adapted to the new desktop), available as an extension or as an option in gnome-tweak-tool. Now I'd understand if people were complaining about still missing feature XYZ or saying how the new workflow is less optimal than the old one for managing windows, but that's not what's happening. Instead there's a whole bunch of people who seem to take any GNOME article as a chance to complain loudly without citing any specifics and mention how they switched to something entirely different without even mentioning what it does better. That's why I characterized the complaints as "someone moved my food dish." No content, just barking.
Sorry for calling you a troll. There's just a lot of noise in this thread from GNOME3 haters and a total lack of specifics. It seems like most people have decided they hate GNOME3 and not much can change their mind. About removing functionality from the core for people to re-add as extensions: I have mixed feelings about that myself. That aside most of what you're looking for is definitely available as extensions if you do decide to try GNOME again:
not having a normal task bar down the bottom
Looks like Frippery Bottom Panel would do the trick.
not having a normal menu at the top
Axe menu looks awesome and I actually use it myself. There's also Frippery menu which looks more minimalist.
not having a decent range of applets to add to the top bar (which I can't put things on anyway, so I guess there's no point having applets if you've got nowhere to put them)
Yeah. Agreed there, but it's getting better. It's just that instead of applets they're extensions now, and they're not installed by default.
Nautilus having found new ways to strip out features where previously I thought they had hit rock bottom
Are you referring to the double-pane thing that they borrowed from mc that they recently removed?
And it would be worth having a big argument over, except that there's a relatively friendly app that can be used to install and change themes. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable choice on their part: Keep the themes out of their basic, streamlined config tool and let power users play as they see fit.
It really won't behave well unless it can use hardware 3D acceleration, so keep that in mind when choosing a hypervisor.
There really is a lot of "OMG! Someone moved my food dish" going on. The move from ed to vi must have really shook them up as well. _