In theory (or if we were running things) clones would be cosidered the same things as identical twins (nature). They would of course lack the emotional connection to their twin because they were not concieved, born, and raised with them (nurture).
It would be roughly the same as twins separated at birth. (though they have much more incommon). Or, from a strictly biological standpoint, it'd be the same if they were concieved at the same time, but one was put on a space ship and sent to alpha centuri at like 90% of the speed of light (that'd make him age 1/2 speed or so from earths inertial frame of reference, right? If not, put in proper speed) and returned. They'd be different ages, and have completely different experiences. But both would be individuals and have unique souls (or both not have souls, depending what you view is there..either way it'd be the same for both).
Now for "reality"-- the reality of governmental, industrial, and cultural "stupidity".
Clones might be considered a different race biologically or socially.
Clones might be enslaved like Replicants (blade runner).
Clones armies could be grown (average age of US enlisted soldier in vietnam: 18 or so) in 18 years if you could keep it secret, or lived in a permissive country, or was that country's dictator.The power to indoctrinate these soldiers has been perfected over thousands of years (see "School" "religion" (not all, but many many) "popular culture" etc..etc..)
This is not farfetched...Gunnery Sargent Hartman (played by a real drill sargent in Full Metal Jacket )could do it with a bunch of "legit" humans...i think it'd be easy to do with a bunch of cloned humans who are told they are worthless, who all look the same, have the same physical capabilities, and look alike from day one. All you have to do is make sure they never develop individual personalities (see school et al) from their birth.
Or, clones could be used as slave labor. Or we might enact "separate but equal" facilities for "them"....
I could go on endlessly.
Here is the point everyone seems to be missing.
Clones are not a threat on humanity. Humans are the threat to clones.
I mean, talk about a great way to combine slavery, indoctrination, and genocide at the same time! (when a few humans show clones they are individuals the rest of us will freak....and hear you me, if we have clones I will be the first one at their door telling them "you are unique, not a clone")
I mean, do i need to make a list here?
Egyptians enslaving the isrealites
Isrealites enslaving themselves
Babylonians enslaving Isrealites
Greeks enslaving greeks and a few others
Romans enslaving romans
Romans enslaving everyone else
etc....
etc....
etc....
English enslaving half the planet....(direct slavery, and "slavery" through political, social and economic oppression)
Gee, should i even mention genocide?? Whether it is the "clone army" performing the genocide, or humanity killing off all clones when we get "bored" with them (cultural ADHD!)
If anything is clear, it is that we are so backward (even the "best" of us would be laughed at by a truely mature civilization) that we present a greater danger to everything else, than could be presented to us.
Clones are not the problem. Their potential human oppressors are.
I say before we enact cloning, we put an amendment in the constitution garunteeing Clones the same rights as every single other member in society regardless of who they are a clone of, who they were cloned by, where they were cloned...etc...etc....And make it an enforceable law.
Then clones might be safe in america. Only america...
There has got to be a way we can park venus into an earth like orbit. I mean hello, Its very close to the size of earth! The only problem is the damn air pressure (it will cool when pushed back towards us). Oh Problem 2...our nuclear weapons. We can just cook off the atmosphere of venus! Problem Solved.
The problem with bringing mars closer would be that the extra radiation would kick off whatever atmosphere it has left.
Damn inverse square law! It makes gravity really finicky.
Ok this is a bit simplistic here but i keep seeing confusion about what a zero sum system is.
For you to win. Someone MUST lose.
So that if you "win" 40, the 10 other people you play with "lose" an average of 4 each...
In otherwords, when the entire process is through, nothing is created or destroyed..hense zero sum.
And to reiterate: For you to win, someone (or everyone else) has to lose.
Do you guys realize that the reason we desperately need non-zero sum games is the fact that US education IS a zero sum game.
Look up Standard Deviation ie bell curves, or normal distributions. In "real science" some events are observed to produce outcomes that fit these curves..though in "social science" assesment tools (ie Standardized tests) are created specifically to CREATE a normal distribution.
What this means is that kids go into the system pretty much equal, and the whole system is meant to "discriminate" (atleast 2-3 senses of the world actually apply here) between the students to produce the widest gulf between the highest and lowest scores.
Not only that, but teaching for tests does not actually train you for anything. No one learns anything important in school unless they teach it to themself.
But teachers have a solution for this! Assign so much work that even if people want to make up their own projects and research things they are into, they don't have time! Compel them to go to school so even if they have time, they are too tired by the end of the day. If they don't get tired, force them to do extracurricular Sh*t 24/7 and say if they don't they won't get into a "good school" and if they don't get into a good school they won't get a good job, and they won't be happy!
In otherwords, its a Zero Sum game. Even if you are lucky/insightful enough to realize you want to opt out of the game, you CAN'T. And if you are like me and were lucky enough to fool your teachers that you *know* something...you succeed...and then find out one day it was at the expense of everyone else.
Oh, and what about claims by politicians and school administrators that "we are going to increase standardized test scores?" Well basically you can't. Maybe you can for your school...one year.. But if you increase all the scores nationwide, the tests will just be recentered to produce the same %'s of each test grade.
A good non-zero-sum game would be an Education system where everyone had the freedom to pick what they needed to learn, and teachers would work with each student until they mastered what they wished to accomplish. (obviously with smaller schools...or just mentors..i mean, why do we need to lock kids away and rule their life with bells and supervision and assigning them numbers based on arbitrary and meaningless standards)
Oh and for you reference, I test between 130-150 on SAT scores, graduated highschool in the top 25 in my class, and got a 1380 on my SAT's and 780 on my Physics SAT II.
But really, as I learned in First semester Philosophy... I really know nothing. And all that stuff in the paragraph above says is "I learned the rules of the game despite them being hidden from me (i mean, anyone can learn to fake intelligence on multiple choice tests) And all of us really know nothing too. In a zero sum game, that means we are screwed unless we can convice people that we know something. But in a non-zero sum game (of life) all it would mean is "Cool. I know nothing, I guess i can learn now"
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com
"Nurtured by love" - Suzuki
Basically search for stuff on how people *really* learn. Its amazing. Short of severe genetic disorder or extreme brain damage, most people are capable of what is commonly called "genius" in many different fields.
And finally. Think of it this way: Even God's Calculator says *ERR* when he divides anything by 0. What is he dividing by zero? He is taking a massive but finite mass and dividing it by zero volume (a singularity) and gets back: as V ---> 0, D --> ? (infinity incase that character doesn't get posted)
Actually the only part of a black hole that doesn't "obey the laws of science" is the singularity inside. The huge gravity well can be described in terms of general relativity. The event horizon appears when you solve the orbital velocity for a massless particle going the speed of light (maximum speed according to special relativity). The behavior of gas around the event horizon is described well by general and special relativity (but oddly enough not very well according to fluid dynamics...well last time i checked. Thats some hard stuff.) The emmission of radiation by blackholes is described very well by Hawking. And the emmission of light and other electromagnetic radiation by the compacted and highly energetic gas is pretty much covered in highschool chemistry or physics (depending where you went i guess).
Btw, these laws apply everywhere.
And really it doesn't matter. Because of the nature of a black hole, this "disturbance in the laws" is cut off from the rest of the universe. You cannot send any meaningful information nor recieve any from a blackhole, and even if you were to go investigate yourself, going in sublight inside, manage not to get crushed, and then miraculously quantum tunnel to the outside, the universe would be over by then because of the almost infinite time dialation involved.
And finally. Think of it this way: Even God's Calculator says >ERR 0, D --> ? (infinity incase that character doesn't get posted)
I mean this follows just about every physics law you can think of, and follows it to the letter.
What you are complaining about is that we don't have a calculator that can divide by zero. Thats ok I guess, but (No/0 calculator != black holes don't exist).
2.) Teach your student how to evaluate sources, and validity of arguments. Introduce him to scientific method.
3.) Practice problem solving in fields he is unfamiliar with.
4.) Make him tutor kids younger than him. At first he will go too fast, but if he works hard, he will develop empathy, patience, and learn about his own learning process. And if he does a good job tutoring, he will learn that people are capable of what he is capable of if they have a good teacher.
5.) Introduce him to Socrates! Make him aware of his ignorance. Nothing is more detrimental to a prodigy than a false belief that *they know something*...If you compare what a prodigy knows and what a "regular person" knows to all the knowledge NO ONE knows yet...the prodigy and the normal person are indistinguishable.
6.) Teach the kid a meditative/artistic activity...music or martial arts or just plain old meditation. Child prodigies often have the same fears or inverse fears of everyone else. Everyone needs to learn to be calm and to be at peace with oneself...to deal with stress, to deal with feelings of hurt etc..etc..etc..
7.) Love the kid with all your heart. (not in some messed up NAMBLA way mind you.)
8.) Make the child supremely happy and have him learn how to share his happiness with others.
Slashdot Mirror
MOD UP,
+ cola&hl=en&safe=off&filter=0
The site is currently not available for unknown reasons, but you can find portions of the article google cached
http://www.google.com/search?q=guerrillanews+coca
Oh, not that America isn't doing the same thing the english did in the 1600's--1950's ...we are just a bit less obvious about it.
In theory (or if we were running things) clones would be cosidered the same things as identical twins (nature). They would of course lack the emotional connection to their twin because they were not concieved, born, and raised with them (nurture).
It would be roughly the same as twins separated at birth. (though they have much more incommon). Or, from a strictly biological standpoint, it'd be the same if they were concieved at the same time, but one was put on a space ship and sent to alpha centuri at like 90% of the speed of light (that'd make him age 1/2 speed or so from earths inertial frame of reference, right? If not, put in proper speed) and returned. They'd be different ages, and have completely different experiences. But both would be individuals and have unique souls (or both not have souls, depending what you view is there..either way it'd be the same for both).
Now for "reality"-- the reality of governmental, industrial, and cultural "stupidity".
Clones might be considered a different race biologically or socially.
Clones might be enslaved like Replicants (blade runner).
Clones armies could be grown (average age of US enlisted soldier in vietnam: 18 or so) in 18 years if you could keep it secret, or lived in a permissive country, or was that country's dictator.The power to indoctrinate these soldiers has been perfected over thousands of years (see "School" "religion" (not all, but many many) "popular culture" etc..etc..)
This is not farfetched...Gunnery Sargent Hartman (played by a real drill sargent in Full Metal Jacket )could do it with a bunch of "legit" humans...i think it'd be easy to do with a bunch of cloned humans who are told they are worthless, who all look the same, have the same physical capabilities, and look alike from day one. All you have to do is make sure they never develop individual personalities (see school et al) from their birth.
Or, clones could be used as slave labor. Or we might enact "separate but equal" facilities for "them"....
I could go on endlessly.
Here is the point everyone seems to be missing.
Clones are not a threat on humanity. Humans are the threat to clones.
I mean, talk about a great way to combine slavery, indoctrination, and genocide at the same time! (when a few humans show clones they are individuals the rest of us will freak....and hear you me, if we have clones I will be the first one at their door telling them "you are unique, not a clone")
I mean, do i need to make a list here?
Egyptians enslaving the isrealites
Isrealites enslaving themselves
Babylonians enslaving Isrealites
Greeks enslaving greeks and a few others
Romans enslaving romans
Romans enslaving everyone else
etc....
etc....
etc....
English enslaving half the planet....(direct slavery, and "slavery" through political, social and economic oppression)
Gee, should i even mention genocide?? Whether it is the "clone army" performing the genocide, or humanity killing off all clones when we get "bored" with them (cultural ADHD!)
If anything is clear, it is that we are so backward (even the "best" of us would be laughed at by a truely mature civilization) that we present a greater danger to everything else, than could be presented to us.
Clones are not the problem. Their potential human oppressors are.
I say before we enact cloning, we put an amendment in the constitution garunteeing Clones the same rights as every single other member in society regardless of who they are a clone of, who they were cloned by, where they were cloned...etc...etc....And make it an enforceable law.
Then clones might be safe in america. Only america...
ETC
There has got to be a way we can park venus into an earth like orbit. I mean hello, Its very close to the size of earth! The only problem is the damn air pressure (it will cool when pushed back towards us). Oh Problem 2...our nuclear weapons. We can just cook off the atmosphere of venus! Problem Solved. The problem with bringing mars closer would be that the extra radiation would kick off whatever atmosphere it has left. Damn inverse square law! It makes gravity really finicky.
Ok this is a bit simplistic here but i keep seeing confusion about what a zero sum system is. For you to win. Someone MUST lose. So that if you "win" 40, the 10 other people you play with "lose" an average of 4 each... In otherwords, when the entire process is through, nothing is created or destroyed..hense zero sum. And to reiterate: For you to win, someone (or everyone else) has to lose.
Do you guys realize that the reason we desperately need non-zero sum games is the fact that US education IS a zero sum game.
Look up Standard Deviation ie bell curves, or normal distributions. In "real science" some events are observed to produce outcomes that fit these curves..though in "social science" assesment tools (ie Standardized tests) are created specifically to CREATE a normal distribution.
What this means is that kids go into the system pretty much equal, and the whole system is meant to "discriminate" (atleast 2-3 senses of the world actually apply here) between the students to produce the widest gulf between the highest and lowest scores.
Not only that, but teaching for tests does not actually train you for anything. No one learns anything important in school unless they teach it to themself.
But teachers have a solution for this! Assign so much work that even if people want to make up their own projects and research things they are into, they don't have time! Compel them to go to school so even if they have time, they are too tired by the end of the day. If they don't get tired, force them to do extracurricular Sh*t 24/7 and say if they don't they won't get into a "good school" and if they don't get into a good school they won't get a good job, and they won't be happy!
In otherwords, its a Zero Sum game. Even if you are lucky/insightful enough to realize you want to opt out of the game, you CAN'T. And if you are like me and were lucky enough to fool your teachers that you *know* something...you succeed...and then find out one day it was at the expense of everyone else.
Oh, and what about claims by politicians and school administrators that "we are going to increase standardized test scores?" Well basically you can't. Maybe you can for your school...one year.. But if you increase all the scores nationwide, the tests will just be recentered to produce the same %'s of each test grade.
A good non-zero-sum game would be an Education system where everyone had the freedom to pick what they needed to learn, and teachers would work with each student until they mastered what they wished to accomplish. (obviously with smaller schools...or just mentors..i mean, why do we need to lock kids away and rule their life with bells and supervision and assigning them numbers based on arbitrary and meaningless standards)
Oh and for you reference, I test between 130-150 on SAT scores, graduated highschool in the top 25 in my class, and got a 1380 on my SAT's and 780 on my Physics SAT II.
But really, as I learned in First semester Philosophy... I really know nothing. And all that stuff in the paragraph above says is "I learned the rules of the game despite them being hidden from me (i mean, anyone can learn to fake intelligence on multiple choice tests) And all of us really know nothing too. In a zero sum game, that means we are screwed unless we can convice people that we know something. But in a non-zero sum game (of life) all it would mean is "Cool. I know nothing, I guess i can learn now"
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com
"Nurtured by love" - Suzuki
Basically search for stuff on how people *really* learn. Its amazing. Short of severe genetic disorder or extreme brain damage, most people are capable of what is commonly called "genius" in many different fields.
stupid me should use preview:
ahem
And finally. Think of it this way: Even God's Calculator says *ERR* when he divides anything by 0. What is he dividing by zero? He is taking a massive but finite mass and dividing it by zero volume (a singularity) and gets back: as V ---> 0, D --> ? (infinity incase that character doesn't get posted)
Actually the only part of a black hole that doesn't "obey the laws of science" is the singularity inside. The huge gravity well can be described in terms of general relativity. The event horizon appears when you solve the orbital velocity for a massless particle going the speed of light (maximum speed according to special relativity). The behavior of gas around the event horizon is described well by general and special relativity (but oddly enough not very well according to fluid dynamics...well last time i checked. Thats some hard stuff.) The emmission of radiation by blackholes is described very well by Hawking. And the emmission of light and other electromagnetic radiation by the compacted and highly energetic gas is pretty much covered in highschool chemistry or physics (depending where you went i guess).
/0 calculator != black holes don't exist).
Btw, these laws apply everywhere.
And really it doesn't matter. Because of the nature of a black hole, this "disturbance in the laws" is cut off from the rest of the universe. You cannot send any meaningful information nor recieve any from a blackhole, and even if you were to go investigate yourself, going in sublight inside, manage not to get crushed, and then miraculously quantum tunnel to the outside, the universe would be over by then because of the almost infinite time dialation involved.
And finally. Think of it this way: Even God's Calculator says >ERR 0, D --> ? (infinity incase that character doesn't get posted)
I mean this follows just about every physics law you can think of, and follows it to the letter.
What you are complaining about is that we don't have a calculator that can divide by zero. Thats ok I guess, but (No
1.) Read Nurtured by love by Shinichi Suzuki.
2.) Teach your student how to evaluate sources, and validity of arguments. Introduce him to scientific method.
3.) Practice problem solving in fields he is unfamiliar with.
4.) Make him tutor kids younger than him. At first he will go too fast, but if he works hard, he will develop empathy, patience, and learn about his own learning process. And if he does a good job tutoring, he will learn that people are capable of what he is capable of if they have a good teacher.
5.) Introduce him to Socrates! Make him aware of his ignorance. Nothing is more detrimental to a prodigy than a false belief that *they know something*...If you compare what a prodigy knows and what a "regular person" knows to all the knowledge NO ONE knows yet...the prodigy and the normal person are indistinguishable.
6.) Teach the kid a meditative/artistic activity...music or martial arts or just plain old meditation. Child prodigies often have the same fears or inverse fears of everyone else. Everyone needs to learn to be calm and to be at peace with oneself...to deal with stress, to deal with feelings of hurt etc..etc..etc..
7.) Love the kid with all your heart. (not in some messed up NAMBLA way mind you.)
8.) Make the child supremely happy and have him learn how to share his happiness with others.