Tutoring A Child Prodigy?

FortKnox asks: "I have recently taken the opportunity to tutor a 9-year-old child prodigy. He almost has his electronics associates degree. He wants to get into programming (already asked me about Assembly and Java), and wants to design an OS (the next Linus Torvalds?). I'd like my teaching to steer towards cutting edge technology. My question is: what would be the appropriate things to teach him, and do you know of any books/teaching materials that would help? I'd like to eventually get into nanotechnology, but are there other fields that are starting to become edge-breaking that would be beneficial to learn?"

Comments

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[bdigit]

Teach him how to go outside and play and how to play with toys and video games and have a fun childhood.

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[Anonymous Coward]

"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
-- Ernest Hemingway

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[beeblebrox87]

Programming and being smart is a fun childhood!

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[narcolepsy]

I'll agree with that. Whilst I see nothing against helping feed children's young inquiring minds, I really find it sickening when parents push and drive their kids to an unnatural level, and start putting them in situations where they are graded and judged constantly. The pressure that puts children under at such a tender age is just asking for trouble in later life.

Children need to interact with others to learn and develop the social skills to lead normal healthy lives. Teaching children to live lives where work and studying is their sole raison de etre, is part of the reason why society has become as messed up as it is. No wonder the biggest cause of death in young adults these days is suicide, if this is the sort of culture that we are creating.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Hear hear. And also make sure he gets a broad education, and exposure to the arts as well as the sciences.

I studied engineering at an Ivy League university (and don't think I'm tooting my own horn, 'cos I basically sucked at it). One of my classmates was a child prodigy who entered the university at age 14 and was a real whiz at all of his physics and engineering classes... but he had no social skills, he was a real pain to be around, he talked too loud and always talked about himself and how easy the classes were for him, because he was forever trying to impress the rest of us to gain acceptance.

One night at dinner he sat with me and a bunch of my friends who were talking about a recent show at an art gallery... he listened for a minute, looking confused, before he asked, "Why is THAT important?" He just had no clue that the liberal arts were anything more than a frivolous waste of time.

The best thing you can do for your nine-year-old is to expose him to as much as you can, and to make sure that he doesn't become specialized on any one thing too early in his life. Good luck!

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[narcolepsy]

but he had no social skills, he was a real pain to be around, he talked too loud and always talked about himself and how easy the classes were for him, because he was forever trying to impress the rest of us to gain acceptance.

Too true. One of the reasons that I dropped computer science at university was that I couldn't stand the people who attended it. Imagine 100 people all like that left to socialise with each other. The results are disturbing to say the least.

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[Jonathan]

Children need to interact with others to learn and develop the social skills to lead normal healthy lives. Teaching children to live lives where work and studying is their sole raison de etre, is part of the reason why society has become as messed up as it is. No wonder the biggest cause of death in young adults these days is suicide, if this is the sort of culture that we are creating.

That's nonsense. "Childhood" as such is purely a twentieth century invention. In the 19th century a nine-year old, if he wasn't born into the idle rich, would have been apprenticed and be well on his way to learning a useful trade. And even the rich child wouldn't be that idle -- he'd been well on his way to learning to read Latin and Greek. Personally, I think that one reason why kids get into drugs today is that their childhood is horribly *boring*. I know I was bored out of my skull before I discovered computers.

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[mcramer]

That's nonsense. "Childhood" as such is purely a twentieth century invention.

As are infant mortality rates below 10%, weekends, (relatively) painless dentistry, heart surgery, antibiotics...

Just because it's a recent invention doesn't mean it's invalid.

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[Jonathan]

Just because it's a recent invention doesn't mean it's invalid.

Of course not -- I couldn't be a scientist if I believed that. The point is that he original poster was assuming that having a child do something other than play with toys was a recent invention which was responsible for ills of modern society.

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[Jonathan]

Just because it's a recent invention doesn't mean it's invalid.

Of course not -- I couldn't be a scientist if I believed that. The point is that he original poster was assuming that having a child do something other than play with toys was a recent invention which was responsible for ills of modern society.

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[laborit]

Dr. Montessori? I didn't know you read slashdot!

(note to the trigger-happy: the above is a compliment)

-----
Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!

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[hitchhikerjim]

What a fucking stereotype! Some of the most brilliant people I know who got way ahead academically have equally good social lives -- one does not preclude the other. That said I guess it is worthwhile to mention -- don't want to fall into the "don't waste your time with that!" trap.

As someone with a good founding in Ed/Psych, and at least a few years in front of the classroom, i've worked with some gifted kids. My advice runs similar to what I was learned in the first year of grad school about any kid: Remember that the ACTION in education is not teaching, it's learning. The person who does that action is the child, not the "teacher", which is a completely mis-labeled term. You're nothing but an assistant.

The best thing to deal with gifted kids is to expose them to huge amounts of resources that they can explore at their own pace. Then you let them go where they want, and you simply act as a coach/guide... suggesting areas tehy may want to explore first, applications of what they're seeing, and being there for discussions. Remember, they will probably soon know more than you do about any given subject -- but discussing it is usually the best way to anchor that knowledge. So being a enthusiastic sounding-board for them is important.

Don't worry about pushing them in any particular direction... in fact pushing at all is the worst thing you can do (that includes pushing them into sports, or other stuff) because any path they choose themselves is always more interesting to them than one they were forced into. Remember that they ALREADY are far enough ahead that you don't need to worry about them having the basics down. He'll graduate high school and go on to college and get a job. So anything else he does is pure gravy, and the best way to insure he keeps inerest is to let him choose.

Also -- kids are kinetic and tacticle things. Whatever path he chooses, try to figure out ways he can create and build using it. And try to figure out what other skills are needed to create whatever project he's into, and point him toward them. (...hmm... you may need a scripting language for this. Let's take a look at Python. Hmm... may need to do some metalwork on this one -- let's learn to weld! ..etc...).

The thing most kids really need is a "partner in crime"... so be there for him. Do things with him. That's the important thing -- he'll do the rest.

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[BinBoy]

You're right. Don't let him near computers or advanced books until he's 16. When he's 18 let him go to college. Then when he graduates after an appropriate indoctrination give him a grey cubicle in a large building. He'll meet a prety girl, get married and have kids. He can then punish his kids for his own failures by forcing them to remain within the system. All is well. No dangerous thinkers to upset things.

Sure, it might not be the best life but maybe he could get a part in a Mac commercial.

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[N473]

What's messed up is that some dumbass mod'd this as a troll... I enjoyed programming my XT and the ][e's at school when I was a young'in ;)

I have not shot anyone, as a matter of fact it gave me a leg up later in life.

---

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[Neuronix]

I may just be full of myself, but I think I was a child prodigy and that I had enough potential to do alot of things I wish I could have gotten started on sooner.

BUT, it was that kind of mentality, that I was just a child and I should be with normal children my age, that made my life miserable. They used to pry me away from my electronics and make me go outside and get hit upside the head with a football almost every day. In school, there were no advanced programs, instead when I wasn't in normal classes, they put me with the slower kids in hopes I could help them. Instead I just got beat on every day, and because I resented school so much, the teachers wouldn't help me at all either.

Children who are that smart DO NOT FIT IN WITH OTHER CHILDREN. Sure, some may, but I've seen too many who didn't. Imagine being a child thinking about electronics all day with kids who know nothing but TV and soda and running around and screaming like kids tend to do all day. These intelligent kinds of kids are teased, made fun of, and just generally made into outcasts by the other children. A good example is "Voices from the Hellmouth", as kids/teachers don't only exclude the intelligent in high school, but the social selection extends to grade school as well.

I guess it does come down to asking the child what he/she wants. I'm willing to bet any child who shows prodigy-grade talents is going to want to play sometimes (don't we all?). But, when it's time to learn or have time to themselves, they're going to be drawn to excersizing the abilities that make them a prodigy.

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[SevenSeasOfRhye]

Taking him out to the beach etc. etc. are important and should be done. It is important. Just make sure (if you can) that he won't wake up one day, 21 years old, wondering why he never enjoyed himself, hating what he's been doing all along, hating his life. About the topics, I'd suggest QUANTUM MECHANICS / FIELD THEORY / COMPUTING. I am against teaching him computers because I feel it will restrict his intellectual abilities to computers only. Teach him a little of everything - Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Math, English, His mother tongue (or father tongue depending on where you are), History, Geography - the works. Teach him all a normal child not necessarily his age would learn. It will help develope him further. Who knows, the kid may be better at literature than anything else. Teach him everything you can at his pace. Just make sure he's enjoying it and knows what enjoyment means. Make sure he doesn't burn out.

Good luck to you.

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[SevenSeasOfRhye]

I guess it does come down to asking the child what he/she wants. I'm willing to bet any child who shows prodigy-grade talents is going to want to play sometimes (don't we all?).
Your suggestion seems flawed.
Basically, kids are too small and immature to understand what is best for them.
At the same time, the teacher might feel something is best for the kid, but it may seem totally irrelevent to someone else.
I think I was similar to you (going by your description) when I was a child. I hated everyone, but I kept doing my own stuff while doing what others did too. I played 9 different sports and yet I knew quite a bit of Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity by the 7th grade.
It isn't too difficult to pick anything up anytime later. But you are a child only once. You must experience evey emotion before you grow up.
Unless the kid plays sports, watches TV (some), interacts with other kids his age, he is going to miss a lot of those emotions. He won't be 'balanced'.
He may not understand it now, but he will later.
Besides, he can always continue doing what he likes (like I continued reading Physics and Biology).
Unless he's mature enough to make his own decisions, his guardians/parents must make sure he gets to feel every emotion including pain and anguish - its very important.

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[GMontag451]

Well, I found childhood to be boring only after I entered public school. (I was home schooled for a couple of years.) The United States public school system is absolutely horrible. Kids learn absolutely nothing, and do nothing but busy work.

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[Johnny Mnemonic]

I think the above post is right on: get out of their way, assisting by teaching them the public resources that are available, more than instructing them in knowledge.

As an addition, I would provide this child resources in the history of electronics and development; it is simply not enough to have good ideas. It is also necessary to have the skills to make those ideas prevail in the marketplace, and it is simply not true that money will chase good ideas--it will only chase the good ideas that it knows about and understands itself.

One of the biggest lessons in the last 30 years have been the education in proprietary vs. collaborative knowledge; the Internet certainly wouldn't have become what it did if someone tried to keep the standard closed (witness AppleTalk), and the greatest fortune the world has ever seen wouldn't have been amassed if all knowledge was open.

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[PoBoy]

Teach him how to drink beer and smoke weed. I would've loved that childhood.

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[gatekeeper-eu]

I resemble that remark! I was sent away to school at 8 yrs and 8 to 12 were the most unhappy years of my life. The only advantage was that I did'nt have to try to hide at the back of the class room and I didn't have to get answers to questions wrong just to seem ordinary like everyone else. Admittedly this was in the '50s and the teaching skills used on gifted children were experimental and single sex, no girls! If the masters had to write a major dissertation on children they would have had difficulty in filling the back of a postage stamp. I missed my dog, playing with my toys and my friends and yes the development of my social skills suffered greatly. There was no fun in life anymore. Baiting teachers was the only passtime that lessened the boredom and missery. The answere for me was to fail the two examinations 11 year old children take in england - common entrance (for Public School, private school in the US) and the 11 plus for entrance to Grammar School, (High School as opposed to trade school). From 12 to 14 much of my time was spent with psychiatrists and psychologists. At 14 I went to an ORDINARY boarding school and had the best time of my life. There was no pressure to perform, there was lots of sport which I loved, No ancient greek or latin and many outdoor persuits but most importantly I met the man who changed my life. He understood children "When talking to carpenters, use carpenters metaphors", but most supprising for me was that he understood ME. I still laugh when I think about the first time we met, within a few minutes he had my number as we say. he wasn't going to take any shit and he had a mischievious twinkle in his eyes which said something like "Just make my day boy!" He was the Master of Studies and senior mathematics master, Harry Patterson. For the first time math was fun, not just easy and in a class of 'three' we seemed to do more laughing and joking than math and my love of Euclid grew (not in the Greek sense, you understand) to such heights that every day was a challenge to find alternative proofs. Harry was not only a good math teacher but was a very experienced and able engineer who had retired early. Problems in math often became solutions in life and so life became fun - at last! I graduated at 16 having stayed on a whole year to retake english (twice). That was the only time I graduated on any level and just for Harry's sake. BSc Mech Eng failed to graduate; Marine Eng Dipl, failed to graduate; BSc (two) Math, failed to graduate; MBA, failed to graduate. And my career? 22 years as a Political Science analyist. As Will said in Good Will Hunting, "I don't know why I can do math, I just can". Is there a moral to this story? Yes, don't just do what you can, do what you enjoy and is fun. Childhood is short enough, don't put away the childish things too early because the is no second chance.

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[albertoiii]

sweet!, an open source kid! where do I sign up?

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[DanThe1Man]

I disagree.

If one is not smart enough to make themselves happy, then are they truly intelligent? Just because this child is intelligent does not mean he is unhappy. You are buying into a stereotype.

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[xtype]

"...to socialise with each other..."
Why is THAT important?

Seriously though, I wish I would have had such opportunities as a child.
Instead I had to putts around with a bunch of stupid children. And I got bored, and lost interest in schooling.
I never fell behind, or received poor grades (well, okay, I sucked at spelling, and still do maybe) but I hated school. It was an utter waste of time I felt.
Homeschooling?
Homeschooling can be good, but it also can be the worst thing for a child. Especially later in life, some colleges and universities seem to really frown on letting homeschooled children into their schools.

Moreover, the question was not "should I continue to assist this child in furthering his knowledge?"
but rather, "What subjects would you consider to be worth while?"

-xtype

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[Gunnery Sgt. Hartman]

The greatest man whoever thought loved music. Einstein loved playing his violin. Teach this child to play music and you've given him/her the world. Also, as for teaching book matter, don't. Teach him/her how to learn. All the facts are out there to look up, but if he doesn't know how to find, manipulate, and utilize them, they are worthless.

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[wljones]

I could say,"I agree!", and be done with it, but that would cheat a prodigy and a tutor of a little helpful advice.

A prodigy must be able to communicate. The tools are language, with English having the widest use among engineers/scientists now, and mathematics, where quantum theory is still the end of the line.

Humanities, appreciation of beauty for its own sake, is important. George Santayana wrote an excellent essay on this subject. Beauty is important to many people, and success in any field will require that you get along with and understand people.

For the same reason, study some psychology, history, geography, literature, and related subjects. It helps the prodigy to understand people. There is no need to ovedo it, but a year or two of each will broaden the prodigy's viewpoint, and lead to the understanding of people and their motives, even if said prodigy disagrees with them.

The prodigy will probably find a specialty while a student. This should be something enjoyable, because the amount of time devoted to it will eventually overwhelm all else. Do not be in a hurry to reach this state. Beauty delights the eye, music pleases the ear, and a good book delights and relaxes the brain. Lose appreciation of this, and it may be time for the prodigy to review priorities.

Try to learn from the past. Remember, Oliver Heaviside antagonized just about everyone. He flatly refused to do rigorous proofs of his mathematics. He just stated that his methods worked, and those of his peers did not.
It was a few years before some mathemeticians realized that his methods were good, and conducted the rigorous proofs. Robert Turing, a brilliant man, whose work with computers advanced computer science and cryptology at a critical time, had his life ruined because he was a homosexual, and was unable to cope with the existing bigotry at the time. It does not matter who one is, or what knowledge or education is possessed,the person must be able to relate with people. A good negotiator can tell people to go to Hell, then get them to stand in line to buy tickets for the trip.

There is so much knowledge today that a prodigy must concentrate effort to master any subject or field. On the other hand, Robert Heinlein made a pretty good case for the renaissance man, stating that specialization was for insects. The prodigy must understand as many viewpoints as possible, then choose the correct path. Success should be measured as happiness, whether this means money, power, prestige, love, or personal satisfaction with a life well done.

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[bettlebrox]

Let him/her make their own mind up as to what to learn. Technology is great, but it's for us dummies, prodigies are the ones who create paradigm shifts that tilt the rest of us on our 'eads. Just guide this child away from the dark side.

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[spiro_killglance]

Whoa there, you can't just start teaching a kid abouat quantum mechanics or field theory. Theres a solid ammount of maths background to learn before you can tackle those.

You need at least advanced calculas and a knowledge of differential equations, complex numbers, fourier transforms and classical mechanics before you tackle basic quantum mechanics.

For field theory you also need,

group theory, matrices, tensors, hamitonian and langragian classical mechanics, statistical mechanics and special relavity.

I took a full time degree in theorectical physics at university, we didn't start on quantum mechanics in any real mathematic detail (e.g. the wavefunction of the hydrogen) till the second year. At the end of the three year course we'd had a fairly good knowledge of quantum mechanics but field theory isn't taught in at degree levels. Cambridge university does an extra year taught MS course for top physics graduates in field theory, widely regraded as the hardest course in the world.

Thats a pretty long course even for a child prodigy, and should only be attempted if the child really has a strong desire to study physics.

Just start with the maths and basic physics and mechanics, and see if thats what the child whats to learn about. Aim to about A-level standards.

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[Cody Hatch]

I really find it sickening when parents push and drive their kids to an unnatural level, and start putting them in situations where they are graded and judged constantly.

Bah. You have no clue if that's happening. I was hardly at this kids level, but I wasn't very far off, and I've never met anyone who had a childhood as fun as mine. If your intelligent, excercising that intelligence is one of the most fun activites available. Of course, maybe the parents ARE pushing the kid--but it's not a given. And from the tutors comments, it sounds like the kids having fun--otherwise he wouldn't want to LEARN, he'd be concerned with GRADES.

Children need to interact with others to learn and develop the social skills to lead normal healthy lives. Teaching children to live lives where work and studying is their sole raison de etre, is part of the reason why society has become as messed up as it is. No wonder the biggest cause of death in young adults these days is suicide, if this is the sort of culture that we are creating.

Your full of absolute shit, sorry. MAYBE they need to interact with other people than their parents (why?) to have "normal" lives...as if THAT'S a good goal to work towards? It's sure as HELL not needed for "healthy" lives. I didn't go to school until I was 15--I spent the 10 years before that reading science fiction and playing computer games. Three years on I've just finished by 2nd year of university, know 8-9 computer languages, have a deep interest in robotics and embedded systems, the largest vocabulary of anyone I've ever met, an excellent knowledge of quantum mechanics and particle physics, a reasonable grasp of univeristy level calculus, an excellent grasp of the political and economic status of every country in the world, and have an average knowledge of phychology, sociology, and so forth. I was Dux of school (like a valedictorian), top of all my classes in my last (that is, 2nd) year of high school, won a large scholarship, was on my schools rugby team, have crossed the US by RV 5 times, sailed across the South Pacific, gone white water rafting, and I mountain bike in my spare time. Oh yes, and I have lots of friends, plus a girl friend (which puts me ahead of most of my fellow geeks, apparently). Apart from a monumental self confidence (and some would argue whether that's a BAD thing), I don't think I came out of the experience too badly. Plus, I've never "studied" in my entire life.

From the sound of things, the kid in question is doing something more strenous that what I did, but then he also sounds a bit brighter and not as lazy. There's no particular reason why he should end up maladjusted--although if he IS as bright as he sounds, he's probably go absolutely NUTS if he was denied access to the information he wants.

The biggest cause of death for teenagers may be suicide, but the quickest way to cause a suicide is to stifle someone, and make them conform. And even then I blame 98% of all suicides on poor parenting.

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[wuice]

I'm, sorry. [grammatical error intentional] I really have trouble believing that someone who was a near child prodigy would make statements such as "Your [sic] full of absolute shit, sorry." As far as your "monumental self-confidence" goes, I would describe it more along the lines of monumental ego, using your paragraph-long self-advertisment as evidence. I also have doubts about your self-proclaimed vocabulary skills, if only because you don't seem to be that keen of a writer, despite your assurances to the contrary.

But anyway, to put this post back on topic, I think the biggest fear of the people who have suggested that this child take the time to enjoy his childhood and interact with others is that, if he doesn't, he'll end up like you. Honestly, the world already seems to have an abundance of extremely bright people, as well as a critical shortage of decent human beings. It's pretty clear to me which of the two we desperately need more of.

By the way, the jerkoffs who made fun of you in school and now survive their daily life by pumping your gas have girlfriends, too. The fact that you have one doesn't say that much about you, buddy.

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[phool]

I think one of the most important ideas to consider is that, at the age of 9, it is more important to be giving tools to a young child that teach him HOW to think, not WHAT to think. Try logic puzzles. Offer him books. Let him find a favorite author\authors. Get him involved in two forms of athletics. One a team sport, one a physical activity that he pursues goals on his own.
Trying to gear him or her for "whats gonna be the next big thing" and attempting to somehow make him marketable is a really frightening thought. Parents that live vicariously through their children are setting themselves, and inevitably, their children up for deep disappointments that last a lifetime.

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[RedAlert99]

That picture would have matched your comment well if it weren't fake. I know Einstein was a good guy, but that tongue doesn't look ANYTHING like real. And his eyes don't look right for someone who's sticking their tongue out.

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[Cody Hatch]

So in summary:

You think spelling and grammar have some vital importance. I'm happy for you--but not happy enough to try and emulate you, as I'm not quite that anal retentive.

You miss the point that the kid probably IS enjoying his childhood, and probably wouldn't want to interact with anyone that wasn't as smart as him (I know *MY* opinion of other nine year olds when I was that age). You also fail to grasp that you can be bright AND decent.

Also, you seem to have some bitterness about school. I enjoyed high school immensely myself. Does the reference to "jerkoffs who made fun of you...and... [pump] your gas" have some personal meaning to you? I detect a note of bitterness...

And finally, you completly fail to grasp that those same losers pumping gas are the "decent people" you think so highly of. Sure they have girlfriends. But you and others seem to think that you have to choose between being "decent", having a girl friend, and pumping gas for a living, or being "bright", an anti-social reject, and a geek. It ain't so.

It's about ten years too early to say where the prodigy in question will end up ten years from now, but nothing mentioned so far indicates any reason why he might not end up well adjusted and "decent", as well as "bright". The key, as always, is good parenting--but that's true regardless of the childs intelligence. Of course, good parenting can't make up for stunting the kid...

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[greenrd]

You obviously have a problem with inferiority, like many people. I read this comment and I admired him. It was relevant, on-topic, inspiring and said something (when taken together with lots of other homeschooling experiences) rather interesting about prevailing education dogmas.

And yes I am a socialist. I am against only unjustified forms of superiority.

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[richardbowers]

You're making the assumption that this is all the parent's choice, and that somehow the kid would be happiest in public school or otherwise with people their own age. I know, in my case, that I was happiest getting as far away from public school as possible.
I didn't start developing social skills until I jumped from 6th grade to college in one year. Its pretty hard to have a healthy, normal life with kids who are being taught to crush non-conformists, or to convince yourself to get up in the morning in order to practice penmanship.
My advice would be to check out some of the programs that are built for gifted youth. Northwestern University used to have a summer program for people 11-13, and there are plenty of others. This way, you get the social aspect with other people that are interested in jumping ahead.

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[Shotgun]

Don't worry about pushing them in any particular direction... in fact pushing at all is the worst thing you can do (that includes pushing them into sports, or other stuff)

I can say, with a great sigh of relief, that this statement is bullshit. Kids, just like the rest of us and all of nature, tends to take the path of least resistance.

My oldest son is smart, but would just as soon sit in front of Cartoon Network or read a book as breath. He has a tendancy toward laziness. At school on the playground he was a pushover. He was beginning to avoid sports altogether.

I forced him to wrestle. I wrestled when in high school, and it changed my life entirely ...confidence, determination, competivness, focus were all characteristics that were brought out by the sport. I don't want to be the father who drags his kids around trying to make them something he never was, but I also want a child with a strong mind, body and spirit. They are all important. So I forced him to wrestle. And I mean FORCED as in get your shoes on we're going.

I thought for a while that it wasn't working out. But, then we travelled home to visit family. They all wanted to know what had happened to him. "He's energetic," they said. "He wants to play, and talk, and he goes on and on about wrestling."

That was when the huge sigh of relief came. Next year, I don't care if he wrestles or not. I'd like to see him continue, but I won't force him. I'll ask and do what he wants. The lesson is complete. But the lesson would not have been learned if I hadn't forced him to go through the test. Unfortunately, most of lifes best lessons require us to do something that we don't want to do. The child will not do it unless forced to.

So, I can say from experience that 'pushing at all is the worst thing you can do' is complete bullshit. Push. Push very hard. But push very carefully, and only for the right reasons.

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[mccabem]

Well, your read is one way to take it, but there's at least one other way as well. Parents often push these prodigy too far and/or too fast....the same syndrome that affects the JonBenet Ramsey crowd and powers the > 60% divorce rate in the US.

The syndrome is born of the huge ego-boom that's been happening for the last decade or three.

Don't take me wrong - this is no simple cause and effect, but it's certainly a factor in society. Parents of prodigy are certainly no less suceptible to this than any others.

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[wuice]

I'm anal-retentive? I'll take that with a grain of salt, considering the source. I didn't miss your point - maybe the kid is enjoying his childhood. I'm sure you enjoyed your childhood of looking down on those around you, too. You also completely misunderstood my last point; I guess I didn't spell it out clearly enough for you.

The fact that you have a girlfriend doesn't make you any better in anyone's eyes, so there's really no point in bringing it up in your little pointless self-advertisment. I have a girlfriend, too. Big deal.

As for the choice between being decent and being bright, the point I was trying to make is that I don't think it'd be worth having another rocket scientist if it means that the kid ends up being a self-important jerkoff like you. Childhood isn't just about physics; it's about learning a sense of civility. I personally think it's pretty difficult to learn a sense of civility when everyone is telling you nonstop how much better you are than everyone else.

Finally, while I may have had a little bitterness over a few of the gas-pumping jerkoffs from high school, it doesn't even approach the level of bitterness I have from the sneering, self-righteous assholes that filled the "gifted" classes into which I was shoehorned. The people in those classes looked down on everyone, including other people in the class, the teachers, and certainly the rest of the school. They did this precisely because they've been told from day one that they're above everyone else, that people can't understand them because they're not on the same level.

You're a card-carrying Mensa member, aren't you?

Re:messed up

[DanThe1Man]

yup, It was real. I believe he was receving an award (Nobel?) and he mugged for a bunch of reporters. If you will read any of his works, you will also see a sense of humor in him writtings.

Mark Twain is another extermly inteligent man who is known for comic moments. He would make fun of polititons all the time.

"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of congress; but I repeat myself."
-Mark Twain

He also said "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." -Mark Twain

So, I would like this sterotype that intelgent people don't have fun or a sense of humor to end. It almost as bad as a Saved by the Bell Sterotype. We can not assuem that this child is unhappy with his social life.

The AC above me didn't deserve a -1, his parent comment did.

-DanThe1Man

Re:messed up

[Decado]

Way to go genius, 3 years to do 2 years of high school. Damn you even topped 2nd year (wonder was it a repeat). As for knowing 9 programming languages, you might have a familiarity with them but unless you have developed large scale applications in every one of them you don't know them. So what if I can write a hello world aplication in 20 diferent languages, it doesnt mean anything. As for nitpicking how did you manage to spend 2 years in high school and 2 years in university in a 3 year period einstein? I suppose you invented the time machine now too. Sorry but may i quote you when i say "You're full of absolute shit" (Excuse my correcting your grammer there).

Best learning tools...

[Karma Sink]

If what you want is to teach him more about programming, and he really is smart enough to pick up on things quickly, your best bet is probably to just let him loose on the source for Linux, Mozilla, etc. while you sit with him and help him figure out anything in the code he doesn't understand.

Re:Best learning tools...

[grammar nazi]

Good idea Karma Sink. To further this idea, you can have him read "The Linux Kernel" by David Rusling. You can download this free book from linuxdoc.org. My personal opinion of this book is that it is a bit 'rough around the edges'. I don't think the book ever had an editor to go through and fix the grammar.

However, "The Linux Kernel" is a very informative book and it is a good start to learning about operating systems.

I've found that with some of my cousins, that if I start out with stories about Linus Torvalds, or the kid who got arrested for DeCSS, then they become more interested in the source code and being able to play with it.

Re:Best learning tools...

[Swift Kick]

Why not the BSD source? If he's a child prodigy and you want him to start out right, have him look at *good* code and not at a poorly-designed mountain of crap.
Don't get me wrong, the concept rocks, but the actual implementation sucks terribly...

Ask...

[BMIComp]

Ask the real prodigy.

Teach him quantum elctrodynamics

[Anonymous Coward]

Start with quantum electrodynamics (old hat) and move on to more advanced topics. For instance, there are some interesting questions in string theory that need resolving. The world could use a few more good string theorists.

Re:Teach him quantum elctrodynamics

[ghoti]

Hm ... does anybody else think that this might have been a joke? Hm? Maybe?

Re:Teach him quantum elctrodynamics

[Mr_Dyqik]

I want to earn lots of money so I can buy lots of shit that will make me happy.

Actually, no I don't, I want to do science. I can't think of anything more boring than just trying to make money, by working in a high paying job in a bank or management consultancy.

Besides, lots of physicists are now making money, such as all my lecturers, who have invented several polymer semiconductor technologies.

Re:Teach him quantum elctrodynamics

[spectatorion]

what a perfect solution. this will address all the people who said he should have a balanced education.

• QED = real science;
• string theory = crative writing (definitely liberal arts)

It's win-win.

-----
# cd /

Re:Teach him quantum elctrodynamics

[magus_melchior]

I think I speak for the rest of the /.ers by saying you're bloody shallow. You sound like the kid who says to the teacher, "Two months in the construction crew and I'll be making more money than you." To which I say, "Wouldn't you like to be *designing* the building instead of making it?"

Get him an older computer

[taliver]

Like a 386/286 or earlier. The hardware is relatively easy to learn, and it should be cheap enough now to let him screw around with. Also, there are plenty of books on the wiring/configuration of such devices.

Now, with that, install any OS that comes with sources, and introduce him to the fine art of hardware programming. The world doesn't need many more programmers... we do need some good device programmers that will have 8 or so years of programming before they expect to be paid a bundle...

Re:Get him an older computer

[tudor]

Now, with that, install any OS that comes with sources, and introduce him to the fine art of hardware programming. The world doesn't need many more programmers... we do need some good device programmers that will have 8 or so years of programming before they expect to be paid a bundle...

Do you really think that "what the world needs" is a good reason for teaching a child something? Good education has nothing to do with what skills are currently trading well in society. A 9 year-old child doesn't necessarily need to know how to write a device driver. His educators shouldn't be thinking about which skills would be the best-rewarded.

Re:Get him an older computer

[taliver]

Do you really think that "what the world needs" is a good reason for teaching a child something?

Isn't it a better reason than most? I'm not advocating making this child learn about cellular structure so we might find a cure for whatever disease even if he doesn't care about biology, but if he does like electronics, why not steer him towards an area that needs help?

If he starts to feel like he's being used, then he can stop and change topics. If he likes doing it, then we're even better off. Basically, if somebody doesn't have a prefence yet, and could possibly like something that may benefit a community, isn't it almost a responsibility to introduce him to that subject?

Re:Get him an older computer

[cybercuzco]

Get him an Apple II GS. Can I see a show of hands of the geeks out there who first started learning how to Program on an Apple II? I know i did. BASIC comes with the thing, and Logowriter and Pascal are good for showing the basic routines of Programming. And it really is amazing what you can do with the little buggers, Woz is the man!

Re:Get him an older computer

[NNKK]

I'm not sure how great an idea that is
it's not a BAD idea per se, but as a 14 year old who's spent most of his life around computers, I can tell you that being handed a peice of old technology (esspecialy if he might KNOW it's older technology) to "screw around with" would be both insulting and could lead to problems adjusting to new technology

the kid needs at least the following:
300-400mhz processor, p2 or K6-2
64MB RAM, 128 preferable
~15, preferably 20GB HDD, ATA/33 5400RPM
fast CD-ROM (CD-R or CD-RW and/or a DVD drive would be a plus)
decent video card, a solid TNT would be fine
17" monitor
printer would be nice but not really neccisary
ZIP drive might be a good idea, esspecialy if he's gonna be learning hardware programming, it's another device for him to write a driver for
internet connection would *definitly* be a good idea, but that's something that his parents might be a bit iffy on.. just depends on the people, though they might already have one, who knows,
if they do have one, if it's dialup, and they're not willing or are unable to move to DSL or cable, then a good thing would be to set up the existing computer (if they have one) for NAT/ipmasq so the kid can have an ethernet connection which can be a good learning tool too

if his parents are paying for a tutor, they probably shouldn't have much trouble paying for a system along thoes lines
and don't buy a pre-built one, buy the parts and make the kid put it together himself... I'm shocked at the people I talk to who can sit down infront of a computer and use it, sometimes in a rather advanced manner, yet have no clue how to add or remove components from a computer, or in some cases, what the inside of a computer even looks like!

Re:Get him an older computer

[spiro_killglance]

I agree, you'll never be poor if you can do something thats useful or whated by the world around you.

Re:Get him an older computer

[tudor]

If you give him/her, at that age, a 400 MHz P2, all they'll do is play addictive video games, build up a massive MP3 collection, and generally try to be a "geek", without understanding what that actually means.

This assumes that an older person would use a computer more responsibly. How many untold numbers of college freshmen have gone down the dark path of MP3 collections and residential LAN games? At least with a child this age, the parents are still around to help him stay on track. But even then, crippling his access to technology doesn't seem like the thing to do if you're attempting to nurture (not control) his growth.

Java certainly seems to take more resources, but that's because it's badly implemented, not because the concept needs huge amounts of CPU.

The boy expressed an interest in learning Java, and here you say that it's tough beans, because it's badly implemented and won't run very fast on the 10 year-old computer you're forcing upon him? What kind of sense does that make?

So why shouldn't he build up an MP3 collection instead of learning to do quality programming? I've rarely (or at least, rarely in comparison) seen really young people appreciate jazz, or independent rock, or classical music. The contents of the collection will be alterna-crap. Likewise, playing vintage games gives an appreciation for that fact that game design isn't merely about how many polygons you can fit on a figure. Many game designers do not understand this.

First off, I hardly think that even his listening habits need to be policed. Alterna-crap has its good aspects too, otherwise it wouldn't be so damn popular. My parents listened to jazz and classical all the time, and when I was young couldn't stand it. Now it's half of my music collection. People's tastes change with age. What's meaningful to one at 10 is likely to be very different from what one listens to at 25. But the "intellectual" aspects of "jazz, independent rock[?] and classical" nonwithstanding, musical taste is one of the most personal things a person can have.

As for the qualities of vintage games, well, I have lots of fun playing all the old games, yeah, but that doesn't mean I don't like new ones, either. If he has a fast computer, he can play both. Heck he can also emulate Atari games, for historical appreciation reasons. What's wrong with lots of polygons? Games have to have simplistic visuals in order that a person can appreciate good design?

From my point of view, the best education and opportunity for growth would come from increasing access to resources, not restricting it. Giving a smart kid a slow computer only to have his friends talk about their fast ones won't do much good.

Besides, from what the original post said, the kid almost has an electronics associates degree, has asked about learning assembly and java, and wants to design an OS. It doesn't exactly sound like he needs a heavy hand to keep him interested in educational and constructive tasks. He'll figure out for himself what's good and what's crap. As a tutor, one can give advice and direction to his endeavors, but one shouldn't police them.

peace.

next Linux Torwarlds?

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon people. I really admire Linus, but he is not a genious. He was just in the right place in the right momment.

Re:next Linux Torwarlds?

[ed1park]

I agree. And I'll even go as far as saying that everyone considered a "genius" falls under that category.

Re:next Linux Torwarlds?

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'll even go as far as saying that everyone considered a "genius" falls under that category.

I'm not so sure. Look at Einstien. Not that guy was just fucking brilliant. And he suffered from the problem of most peers of his day not able to understand his ideas. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Re:next Linux Torwarlds?

[tstiehm]

Come on, Linus is god. He is everything. Life won't be worth living without him. There was no Open Source before home and there will be no open source after him.

I know what to do

[smapnipss]

Sit him in front of Star Trek for a couple hours and if he's really smart maybe he'll invent warp drive or teleporters.

Re:I know what to do

[OzPeter]

.. maybe he'll invent warp drive ..

Sorry .. too late

People are already working on warp drive theory, and actually have solutions.

I don't recall the URL but I know that it is connected to the sceince column in the Asimov Sc-Fi magazine.

IMHO

[slashdoter]

Teach him in this order

1. Half-life, 2.Counter-strike, 3. finding Pr0n, 4.Troling on slashdot(I can help if need be) 5. Diablo II 6. history, 7. (www.)everything(2.com) else

________

Here's a thought...

[Reality Master 101]

Take him to a basketball game. Take him to the beach. Teach him to throw a football. Take him to some same-age playgroups. Rough-house with him.

I know that you're a tutor, not a big-brother, but I'm using this to make a slightly different point.

The kid is already far, far ahead in mental ability. How much faster does he need to be pushed? By all means, he should study what he's interested in, and move forward at his own pace.

But I've seen too many prodigys with adults around them who want to push them as far as possible, while neglecting other important attributes, like socialization, athletics, and other "non-mental" pursuits.

It's the opposite problem from the jock who's so great at athletics that everyone lets him slide on academics. Then he ends his athletic career, broke, stupid and becomes a bartender.

When kids have a gift (whether academic or athletic), it should be developed, no question. But other parts of life should not be neglected. Gifted kids have lots of time. At the end of their life, they're not going to regret failing to graduate from college at 18 rather than 17. Hopefully, they won't regret a lifetime of loneliness because of broken social skills.

--

Re:Here's a thought...

[linuxmop]

Although I was certainly not a prodigy, I wanted to learn as much as I could about computers at a very early age, and let me say that I had little or no interest in other things. Sure, take the kid to a football game or some such occassionaly, but don't say to the kid, "No, we're not going to learn electronics today! We have to play with some drooling morons that are your age! It helps build skills!"

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

We have to play with some drooling morons that are your age! It helps build skills!

Let's teach him to be arrogant and condescending! Yeah, that's a great lesson! What a brilliant teacher you would be.

Guess what -- you can learn things from anyone, not just people that are the same level or smarter than you are.

Re:Here's a thought...

[drudd]

While I agree it is good to keep this child well-rounded and be wary of pushing him too hard, there are other things to keep in mind.

My biggest problem over the course of my education was not being pushed hard enough. I've never had to study hard for anything, and even slacking off, I tend to get good grades (mostly A's, some B's).

I now have great difficulty focusing my abilities enough to truly use them to their fullest extent.

Besides, the list of football and basketball should be supplemented with trips to the Opera, and if you have the budget, the Smithsonian.

Doug

Re:Here's a thought...

[Maurice]

I now have great difficulty focusing my abilities enough to truly use them to their fullest extent

Should have aimed for A+ then, eh? I have found this helped me, because I could get A's practically without studying...Of course your school may not give A+, in which case my advice is moot.

Re:Here's a thought...

[drudd]

Yeah I should have... but when getting that A+ takes 5x the effort, and has little reward associated with it (other than the joy of social ostracism), it's very difficult to be motivated enough to do that extra work.

The crucial thing is to make it fun, or at least give a large bonus upon success, otherwise it is just wasted time.

Doug

Re:Here's a thought...

[elmegil]

The point is most of those people at his age are not particularly likely to be very ACCEPTING of his smarts, and will very likely go out of their way to make sure it's clear to him that being smart is bad. That's reality. Sure "you can learn something from anyone", that's a lesson most of us learn eventually. But that cuts both ways, and your average kid is going to be just as condescending to the brain because he's different. And the smart kid won't get it, because it's not logical, so all you're going to end up teaching him is "people are mean". Good lesson.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Reality Master 101]

The point is most of those people at his age are not particularly likely to be very ACCEPTING of his smarts, and will very likely go out of their way to make sure it's clear to him that being smart is bad.

And that's a lesson that too many smart people never learn. No, not the one you're talking about. It's this: No one like a smart-ass. It's usually (although not always) the smart kid's fault when he gets picked on. It's one thing to be smart, but it's another thing to act arrogant and be a "know it all".

It's like an athlete who is a ball hog. They're so much better than everyone else that they feel they need to make every play, and eventually no one like to play with them. Then he goes home thinking, "well, they're just jealous because I'm so much better". No, they're not having fun! They want to participate, too.

If I could be a little immodest for a minute. I used to be a smart-ass. I used to take great pride in solving every math problem in my head before the other kids applied pencil to paper. But eventually I learned that I could slow down and not announce every answer in an arrogant fashion, and could let others participate. Wow! I suddenly got a lot more popular, because I didn't spoil everyone's fun.

Now I just confine my arrogance and "know it all" attitude to Slashdot. :)

--

Re:Here's a thought...

[wirelessdata]

Agree and would like to expand. Success in engineering often requires mastery and control over the material. The same skills, if applied to humans, will make others consider him arrogant or self-important. Negative experiences with other youth his age can cause him to withdraw further into technology.

When he realizes later in life that there is more to life than control of the material he will have to go through a lengthy, painful period discovering and reversing the assumptions he made early in life.

Better to expose him to situations that he has little or no control over the outcome of, especially without the help of others. It is key that he is comfortable in these situations (ie, most of life) so that when he enters them he can differentiate between them and scientific problems, and does not feel the compulsion to control them at the expense of others.

Your position is difficult. It is important that he be aware of his gift and be able to live it to its fullest, yet remain humble at the same time. It is important that his gift does not gradually turn into a private hell.

The best tool you can provide him is the desire to learn and grow outside of his discipline. Also to simply enjoy life. May I recommend this as one possible starting point for you to answer the question of what to teach him next.

Re:Here's a thought...

[wirelessdata]

But eventually I learned that I could slow down and not announce every answer in an arrogant fashion, and could let others participate.

That's the point. There's no need to take everyone else's advice and point him away from his gift. You just need to make him AWARE that he needs to do it with grace and humility. That lesson will automatically require the socialization others talk about.

And that is FAR more difficult to teach or learn than science. I wonder if I ever will learn this myself.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Dr. Evil]

Discipline in studies is very important. I made it through school figuring things out as they appeared, rather than studying. Eventually subject matter appeared which required a progressive development of skill. Without doing the homework the answers were no longer immediately evident nor could they be worked out in the time alloted for exams. I fumbled, had difficulty studying, piled up debt and dropped out.

I find I'm doing much better now that I'm studying part time while working full time. Although much of the subject matter I'm studying now is in the arts and humanities, I'm still scoring great marks. I find I can take the time to fully appreciate the material. I'm contemplating starting up a calculus study group at work.. a rather sickly geeky concept, but it keeps everybody motivated.

When I was a kid, I desparately saved cash for electronics equipment, chemistry books and computer hardware. Jobs were scarce, so many of my interests took a back seat. I could only focus on computers, fine models and metalwork. A friend of mine was given an old oscilloscope, collections of books from Motorola and tonnes of chip samples. Of course, he won many science fairs and is working in electronics. Myself, I'm working with computers.

People who take bragging rights on their grades worry me. It is entirely a product of your environment and your genetics. Your enviroment and upbringing provide discipline and motivation. Genetics is the only explanation I have for people who try really hard, can be brilliant in some areas, but still fail to grasp particular concepts. When you brag about your grades, you may as well be bragging about your hair colour or your socio-economic bracket. Bragging about that stuff indicates to me that either the person is desparately seeking peer approval, or they are trying to make up for some other insecurities.

I don't know what life is about, but it is certainly not about how good your grades are or how much money you make. Of course for whatever reason a low income can make life quite intollerable.

IMHO, the worst thing that could happen to this kid is that he'll drop out of school because between focusing on microbiology and obsessing over robotics, he'll flop out of everything else -- socially awkward with only a high-school education. On the other hand, with private tutors, he probably already has the attention of professors and the like who can mentor him out of those problems.

Re:Here's a thought...

[bataras]

It's the opposite problem from the jock who's so great at athletics that everyone lets him slide on academics. Then he ends his athletic career, broke, stupid and becomes a bartender.

The bartending association of America collectively spits in your drink.

Re:Here's a thought...

[elmegil]

Bah.

Sorry, but ball hogs don't get picked on. They may not have many friends, but they definitely don't get the ostracism that smart kids get.

The problem is that today's american society, despite being very technologically based, still doesn't value intelligence as much as looks or athletics. And that's not the fault of the smart-ass.

As far as it goes, most smart kids, at the point in which they're being taught that society hates them, aren't emotionally developed enough to understand your point anyway. Certainly they should be pointed in that direction, but it's not a lesson that gets taught at the end of a bully's fist.

Re:Here's a thought...

[elmegil]

someone please mod this one up

Re:Here's a thought...

[FigWig]

So we shouldn't brag about our accomplishments that are purely the product of our genes and external environment? That still leaves a lot of ground - I guess I can still brag about all my accomplishments that are due to my rich uncle. Good way to think it through, Socrates.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Dr. Evil]

I'm not sure where the word "external" came from or what it means in this context, but if you take a narrow enough definition of "environment" then yes, you can make it sound as though I'm saying something irrational.

I would consider having a wealthy family (immediate or otherwise) part of one's environment. Wouldn't you?

Cutting out genetics and environment leaves very little ground for what can be considered an accomplishment. It is both sides of the nature/nurture argument, which is why I qualify the statement with the word "purely."

So if you go to the best schools and have the best tutors because of your rich uncle, that is not an accomplishment. If your uncle lands you a cozy job, that's not an accomplishment. But if you succeed in that job and are happy with life, then your uncle has definately accomplished something.

Of course I'm assuming that the rich uncle's objective was to make your life happy. If his morals are sufficiently out of touch with society, then he could have failed horribly to make you absolutely mizerable.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Dr. Evil]

Bragging about that stuff indicates to me that either the person is desparately seeking peer approval, or they are trying to make up for some other insecurities.

...Normally I don't do it, but sometimes it's fun to do when people are not nice to you. It sure is better than kicking their ass and getting arrested for it.

You walked right into that one.

Besides, you are talking about "discipline and motivation" like it's a bad thing and it's not.

I agree with you completely that discipline and motivation are very positive qualities. Infact the very first thing I said in my post was "Discipline in studies is very important." I am not well disciplined, nor do I find motivation easily.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Dr. Evil]

Approval, not attention. If you're talking about the typically cruel behaviour found in highschools, that's a screwed up environment to begin with. If you're part of it, you're entitled to be a bit screwed up. It doesn't mean that you're not seeking approval, and it doesn't mean that you're not making up for other insecurities. I know it is an oversimplification, but it is what I think when somebody starts bragging about that sort of thing in front of me.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Dr. Evil]

You can brag about anything you want, but if you brag about your grades in front of me, it won't have a positive effect.

As for what one can consider a genuine accomplishment, you're quite right, there isn't much. I have to run, so I can't get into it right now. The crux of it is doing something because it is what you consider to be compliant with your own form of morals, not what you are naturally led to do.

Turning down major corporate contracts over ethical concerns (any ethical concerns) is an example of something to be proud of.

Re:Here's a thought...

[elflord]

I suggest you go kick yourself right now.

Teach him life

[Raindeer]

Maybe i sound like an old geezer, but anyways...

The kid is nine years old and is a prodigy. He is able to learn what he want, but what is often the problem with these kids, is that when they reach their teens, they feel left out. Please, don't swamp him with technical stuff, he will have his whole life to read boring books on technology. But he will have only a couple of years to learn the basics that will help him get through life. The skills nescessary for social interaction.

in my experience

[gtx]

in my experience, at that age, while there are children who truly are extremely gifted in such ares, they don't really understand what goes along with 'designing an OS' or 'learning assembly.' chances are, that those are the most advanced software challenges that he/she could imagine. gifted children have no trouble learning things. in fact, they enjoy it to quite some degree, and in most cases, the greater the challenge, the more rewarding it is for them. however, i have to question whether jumping right into such advanced programming would be helpful. if it we me, i'd give the child a BASIC interpreter and a manual. chances are they'll have that figured out in a week. if you start simple, like with BASIC, and work your way up, the child will wire itself to think like a programmer. that's a good thing.

however, what's even more important than any of this, is getting the child into proper social interaction. entirely too many gifted children become social idiots because they were seperated from the 'normal kids' or were told from an early age that they were better than everybody else. i would also advise keeping said kids among kids of his/her own age, but it sounds like that isn't going to be a possibility.

the summary would probably be learn as much as possible, but keep it fun, and never expect the child to do more than a child should.

Re:in my experience

[handybundler]

I don't care if it's your sig and you hate people replying to it, but I just laughed for five minutes about your "Chuck D" line. Mod me down, I'm in the (-) already.

Re:in my experience

[knobbie]

i'd give the child a BASIC interpreter and a manual. chances are they'll have that figured out in a week. if you start simple, like with BASIC, and work your way up, the child will wire itself to think like a programmer. that's a good thing.

i disagree with this. i think that starting this kid on languages like BASIC is a bad idea, because you will simply be trapping him in the same top-down structures of thought that restrict programmers now. while i agree with the person below who says that you need to be careful of "cutting-edge" technology since it may be useless in a few years, i think that you can still take important things from such technologies, such as the way in which the type of thought behind programming is evolving.

things like abstraction and modularization are so much more important things to learn. i've debugged too much horrible C code in order to make it reusable, that i think that one programmer who can think outside of a single project is a hundred times more productive than the fastest C hacker. and the new horizons in programming are constantly being reflected in the ways new languages are being developed to make these things easier, such as in C++, java, XML, etc.

and the great thing about learning concepts such as abstraction is that programming is not the only way to teach it. get the kid to read some philosophy. take him to art galleries, where abstractions of the world are commonplace, and other abstractions are challenged. if he can learn to abstract in unique ways, he will be more productive than anything BASIC could ever teach.

Re:in my experience

[lcracker]

(80x86) Assembler is NOT beyond a 9 year old. That's when I learned it, on my own.

And I would say that C++ or Java is more advanced and has more alien concepts than Assembler would to a new programmer.

let the kid learn what he wants, give him a couple pages of source code and help him figure out what it does.. so he can write his own. Buy him some books, there are plenty on the subject..

corruption

[LWeinberger]

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. -- Nietzsche Seriously though, I think it's wrong to take children and make them be adults too soon. Let him be a child first. He's got enough time later on to be an adult, and he can learn how to be a programmer then.

Re:corruption

[linuxmop]

Yeah, then he can be another burnt out, mediocre programmer. The best time to learn things is as a child. It's quite another thing to make the kid learn about programming, but if he is truly interested now, I say go for it.

Re:corruption

[PurpleBob]

"Hey, I wanna learn Assembly."

"No, you can't. Go be a kid. Ride your bike or something."

"Where?"

"What? You're a kid. You're supposed to have fun riding your bike. It doesn't matter if you're going anywhere."

"But I'd have more fun programming in assembly."

"No you wouldn't. You're supposed to have fun doing things that other kids do. You're a kid. Here, I'll send you over to the neighbors' and you can watch cartoons with the kid there."

"But he's stupid and he beats me up."

"Then you just need to learn to socialize better!"

"I'd rather learn assembly programming."

"I ORDER YOU TO GO HAVE FUN!"

A large number of people are suggesting that the kid should be discouraged from following his dream, and instead of expanding his mind the tutor should work on fitting him into a mold. And they get modded up for it, because they express it in a sentimental kind of way, suggesting that the child would be happier that way.

Bullshit.

I was a gifted child, and all through elementary school I was encouraged to learn more. Then I got into middle school and suddenly I was a burden to them. They didn't want to give me advanced classes, they wanted me to learn the same things as all the other fifth-graders, it would be more convenient for them that way. Incidentally, I had a miserable time in most of middle school, and now I think of all the stuff I could have learned if I had been given the opportunity then.

Sure, he COULD learn to be a programmer as an adult, but why stifle his youthful mind and then try to cram programming into his adult mind which would have a much harder time learning?

--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.

Re:corruption

[Mr_Dyqik]

The fact that extremely intelligent kids also count as special needs (in the sense that the normal school curriculum will be far to easy for them) is only just being realised nationally in Britain.

I was extremely bored at school, until I started reading a lot of other stuff outside of school and thinking about that in lessons instead. Unfortunately I then got in trouble for not listening to the teacher, right up till I maxed the test on what was being taught in lessons.

Other very bright kids sometimes tend to go in for trouble making, just because they're bored. My mother works as a special needs helper and has to deal with one boy (7 or 8) that attacks classmates randomly in lessons, but when he is removed from the class and sent to sit in the library will quite happily read encyclopedias and maths textbooks. In this case it is much better for the child that he isn't taught with his peers, since he does socialise with them in breaks etc. and if he is bored from class he tends to carry on acting in a violent manner.

Re:corruption

[Don Negro]

Incidentally, I had a miserable time in most of middle school, and now I think of all the stuff I could have learned if I had been given the opportunity then.

Preach it, preach it, preach it.

Of all the things I regret about my childhood, those lost years are the worst. You simply have a higher capacity to learn when you're 10, 11, 12, ect.

The kid sounds a lot like me, I had my Novice ham radio license when I was 10, and my Tech soon after. You are there to be his mentor, not his sole educator. Help him, make suggestions, including social skills suggestions, but encourage him to learn as much as he can about everything he's interested in, and do what you can to make that learning possible.

Don Negro

Don Negro

Save his life...

[latifpaws]

... by making him forget about computers for a couple of years at least, and instead focus on friends, sports, pets, reading etc.

Then again, it's ultimately *his* decision what to do with his life at any given time.

Life is the hard problem. Not technology

[gazorg]

I'd think that the technological teaching is the minor problem with such an abnormal person. If able to learn electronics he ought to be able to select his own direction with some tutoring.

The moral thing, though, is that the child (prodigy or not) will grow up and to some extent be a part of normal society. This can be hard, even for a presumed normal person. So, while not hindering the learning, try bear this in mind. A genius that is asocial or strange is of little value, to himself. Originality is an asset, but not if that entails not being able to understand and somewhat identify with other persons thinking, values and problems.

Values is the important thing here, IMHO.

Another OS?

[cybergeek]

It seems to me that writing a new OS seems quite unneccesary - introduce him to the concepts yes (perhaps looking at Linux for ideas). Get him to have a look at SourceForge for some ideas and get him to contribute.

That way he'll hopefully learn many new techniques and benefit us all!

The best of luck,
Daniel

Let him wander

[nuggz]

Just let him wander through whatever he wants.
The big challenges will be social things, try scouts and things, interacting with your peers is realy important.
Despite the great intelligence few geniuses ever make it on their own, and they may not seek it out on their own. Face it at 9 you have a very naive world view.
If you want to help them the most, make them explore the other things they make overlook.

No Offense, But...

[Seumas]

I would say it has nothing to do with what you would like him to do. Whether you want him to learn a cutting-edge technology or develope nano-technology is irrelavent.

Open him up to all the available sources. I didn't have anyone to point me toward all the things that are out there when I was about twelve and I think that stifled my computer experience and knowledge by at least six years. If I had known I could learn to program something other than BASIC and actually install my own Unix server when I was a kid, I would be far beyond where I am now. Instead, I didn't find this stuff out until I hooked up with the right friends after highschoool.

Show him the people, groups, books, online guides and other resources are and offer to assist with anything that piques his curiosity. Help provide the hardware resources that he needs to tool around with things that he is intrigued by. He'll find his own path -- you need to be the machete he whacks the clutter away with -- not his compass. His natural intellect and insatiable desire for knowledge will be his compass.

Pushing a kid in math or technology is just as disasterous as pushing a kid in football or wrestling. They need a foundation and companion -- not a booster rocket strapped to their ass, shoving them toward things.
---
seumas.com

Re:No Offense, But...

[Punto]

I agree. I know this kids (I'm not a prodigy myself, but I've been around them), and they won't do anything they don't want to do. You can't just _push_ him to "develope social skills", or "rocket science". Social skills are very important for them, because they'll became "smart asses" until they are 20, and start interacting with real people, but you can't just "push" them to develop anything.

That's why they are bored at normal school all the time, they just don't care about it.

--

Please People

[Tangfan]

He's smart, he's not superhuman. Just because he's very intelligent doesn't mean he's a god or something, it just means he's able to learn more quickly and remember better (I presume at least, from what you've said). I do have to agree with the one person, though. Be careful that he still has a childhood before he grows up and programs... and try to get him into something besides computing, so that he is not the one-track child prodigy who, once they've done everything there is to do in their field, he doesn't burn out like so many others have. As far as programming, I agree with the others, but let him choose what he wants to do. If he can pick things up really quickly, it might not be long before he knows more than you do. Don't worry about it, just guide him as best you can and let him osmose stuff, because it sounds like he can just about do that ;) Dunno about just slinging code at him, though... maybe if you sat and showed him what it all meant, but just giving it to him is like trying to teach him Ancient Greek by handing him the Illiad. My own personal bigotry as far as future techs goes would be to try to get to to work in the mind-to-computer direct link, but that's just my own opinions. You're the tutor, not me. Good luck, either way.

Start with objects

[Linux_ho]

If I had it to do all over again, I would have started with a relatively simple language with OO features such as Python or Java, studied OO patterns, data structures and algorithms, and then sharpen the focus and dig into C and assembler later.

Re:Start with objects

[will_code_for_beer]

I think an excellent OO language to get started is Smalltalk.

Re:Start with objects

[aug24]

Hell, if he proves good enough, get him involved in The Hurd - it needs hands, even small ones :)

Re:hmmm

[Daffy_Human]

an electronics techie, he can fix your vcr and shit. Not that it's something to be ashamed of, but not exactly the best use of an allegedly super human brain with massive abstract thinking abilities.

Give him a Playstation 2 and let his brain hibernate until he's 18. You have only one shot at childhood, then it's over. You have the rest of your life to be an adult.

whoa

[fjordboy]

First of all, I think he should be taught how to play board games, and how to have fun like most kids..(video games? baseball?)
Second of all, if he gets into computers and wants to learn how to program and such, a great language to start on would be C++. It is very similar to many other programming languages, and it is easy to learn it quickly, and it is also a very useful skill to have. C++ and C are very similar to Java, so this prodigy would be able to do a lot of things with his knowledge....

There is no future without the past

[rpseguin]

$0.02?
Make certain you teach him a bunch of history of things, the fundamentals; why many things are the way they are. This can be a learning experience for both of you. Writing a compiler or an OS is fun stuff and REALLY gives you a lot to think about.

Finally, make certain that he uses a good OO language to implement his OS, and tell him that putting #ifdefs inside of his code is punishable by death.

/$0.02?
-Ralph

Re:There is no future without the past

[Paladin128]

Finally, make certain that he uses a good OO language to implement his OS, and tell him that putting #ifdefs inside of his code is punishable by death.

Are you nuts? If one is going to write an OS kernel, #ifdefs are you're friend! They allow you to make your code portable between different architectures and compilers. Although I am an avid promotter of OO languages for application development, the overhead added by OO (especially when using nifty things like exception handling and RTTI) is really too much for something so low level as an OS kernel and surrounding support structures. Would I write a video game or word processor in C or Perl? Hell no! I'd use C++. Not for a kernel, though.

"Evil beware: I'm armed to the teeth and packing a hampster!"

teach him assembly

[cerberusti]

I learned x86 assembly when i was 10. I am very glad I started with it. It gives you a good idea how the computer actually works. Whatever you do, don't teach him VB, it will ruin him as a programmer forever.

Re:teach him assembly

[Ex Machina]

My first two proramming languages were VB and QBasic. I turned out fine.... but look at the list of languages I've larned.

1. qbasic
2. vb
3. pascal
4. C
5. C++
6. Perl
7. Java

VB didn't mess me up that much. In fact I used again this summer for doing webdev for a .com.

The obvious answer.

[c=sixty4]

I believe you should forward your concerns to British Telecom. They have recently shown great interest in handling a prodigy.

Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[Ars-Fartsica]

I've run into a few of these so called "gifted" children over the years, and not one of them has gone on to have an exceptional set of accomplishments as an adult.

The reasons is simple - socialization. Being a successful adult is as much a function of charisma as a function of intelligence.

Added to which, such children are typically treated as freakshow material by their peers, which will ultimately limit their endeavors.

My best advice is maybe bump the kid up a grade or two, keep him stimulated on the side, but don't let him be removed from his normal peer group, and don't let him avoid "mundane" tasks like physical labor.

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[Velex]

Socialization is a good idea, but be careful which group he socializes with. There's no way he can relate to his normal peer group and no way they can relate to him. If his normal peer group is anything like mine, all he'll probably get from them is an incredible feeling of loneliness, and he might forget his intelligence and think of himself as failed at the game of life.

If there's a program for extremely talented kids like Path and the Midwest Talent Search, he should take it and get introduced to all the other smart kids in his area. True, he needs charisma, but I doubt that his peer group will teach him anything but how to withdraw into an adamant shell until he can lay on his bed at home and ask a silent God why he's an outcast. He will learn much more about social interaction by being around other children who, if not commensurate with his talent, at least aren't going to throw him away for lack of machismo.

Unless his gift extends into the gym and still allows him to play macho head games unlike mine, his normal peer group will only be a poison that eats at his soul until there's nothing left.

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[KevinMS]

The reasons is simple - socialization.

This is not the reason. The reason is that, although adults that were child prodigys do have good retention and are quick learners, others, who were smart but not prodigys, eventually catch up. Prodigys are in posession of a subset of skills that prove to be very effective at making them advanced at a young age, in adulthood other skills like creativity and passion prove to be the read advantage

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[xee]

This ought to be a Score: 5; Funny - because it's gotta be a fucking JOKE! Yeah, lets take this genius away from his tutor/mentor where he's learning at his own level, and put him in middle school when he's 9 years old. I guarantee that middle school will fuck him up more than learning assembly! I was not promoted like that, and middle school still fucked me up. Take it from me (I'll list some credentials later): DON'T TELL THE KID WHAT'S BEST FOR HIM SOCIALLY!!! I was probably just like him when I was 9 (8 years ago), and lemme tell you - no one my age has come to accept me for my brains except for a select few here in my senior year in high school. I know what you critics will say: well, it may be because you're an ass that people don't like you. Yeah, that's gotta be it. Fuck you. Hell, some adults feel threatened by my talents. In middle school, every time I would raise my hand to answer a question, or ask one, most of the class would tell me to "shut up, stupid." Well, here's some reasons that I'm not stupid... IQ: 135; Age ham license acquired: 8; Current curiosity: chaos theory, and cognitive science. Yeah, I'm basically a failure at school. I'm even in "gifted" classes. Trust me, even the classes labeled "gifted" can suck. No matter what else - it all depends on the teacher. Remember this one thing: teach the kid as much stuff as you can. Don't ever tell him "No, we're not going to learn that today." And please, try to expose him to any form of art. Painting, music, theatre, architecture, even interior design. He might tell you that science is everywhere. You've got to show him that art is too. I've gone way to long without knowing that.


-------

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[amix]

P>Blah blah blah.

Score 5 !?! What ? Insightfull ?!

This is just a mirroring of the problem itself: Average people who think they can decide upon what is best for a super-intelligence by judjing from looking at their own lifes.
It just not works this way. It is average people's desicions above such hyper-inetelligences that make their lifes so problematic.
"No you don't need that Quantum Physics book, my son, you are only eleven, here, Micky Mouse, that is what all other kids of your age read"

Charisma ? You want to tell me that Mahathma Gandhi, Albert Einstein, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, George Bernard Shaw, Pablo Picasso, Salvadore Dali, Steven Hawking, Frank Zappa, Jimi Hendrix have no Charisma ?

You say you have run into few of them ?

I did so too.

I know two good enough to tell you that their problems came not from the facts that they haven't been in normal schools.

That was their problem

If you ask me: If Michael 'Air' Jordan would not have had the chance to play in the champions league, he might be an be an alcoholic today unlucky and looking back on his wasted life.

Or, if Albert Einstein (who went to a normal school and repeated class) would not have gotten the chance to study what he wanted, he might have become some ordinary salesman enjoying some wifes while their husbands are at work.(HEHEHE)

I think I won't start telling you about the case of the nine year old girl going to a normal school, getting fulfilled all her normal needs by her normal parents and one day she started to get bad grades in school, became aggressive, first towards the other kids, later against herself (she cut her arms with a knife, with nine years, uh oh ah...) until finally someone I know realized whta the girl was. (The parents: "What, this stupid little brat ?") Now she is in a special school for special kids. She has a lot of (admittedly special) friends and just progresses nicly.

I think I won't tell you about that extremly 'prodigy' guy I meat a year ago, who, yes, never was allowed to get the education he needs, but had to go to normal school and now has a lot of friends (he has a bar, uh oh uh...he could be Friedrich Nietzsche) and is so god damned unlucky, very strange and hypochondric. Fully underpowered.

That is how these people fuck up.

Dammit ! A Ferarri needs no speed-limit.

Do you ?!

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[Mr_Person]

I think that it can be just a good if you stay with your normal peer group, but just find a couple of people that have the same interests as you. Just because someone is in a special program doesn't mean that you will be able to relate to them better than anyone else in your peer group.

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[Ars-Fartsica]

Charisma ? You want to tell me that Mahathma Gandhi, Albert Einstein, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, George Bernard Shaw, Pablo Picasso, Salvadore Dali, Steven Hawking, Frank Zappa, Jimi Hendrix have no Charisma ?

I don't know about the rest, but Einstein was no child prodigy.

Added to which, you need to take the "prodigy" stories with a grain of salt. Everyone thinks their child is of above-average intelligence. I obviously have no experience with the child in question, but the presumption that this child is working at "university level" at the age of nine is presumptuous at best, and most likely is more a function of parental ego than actual intelligence.

Didn't anyone see Magnolia??

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[kungfumasta]

youre right, but that is not the reason why. its because, instead of topping off at 20-28(which is generally the mental peak- look at the ages of most mathematicians, scientists, and chess players during their most productive period)the intelligence blooms earlier, AND reaches its max earlier. 17-9 = 28-20, just shifted a little on the age axis.

Re:Sorry, but this is a crock of shit

[jaroca]

I couldn't agree with you more. My IQ is the same 130-140 range, and the same shit happened to me at school. I took all advanced and enriched courses offered. I too am just learning the value of art. It is important, so teach the kid a little about artsy fartsy stuff.

EGADS!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with the morality of your post LWeinberger, but...

...How are we ever going to topple the evil Microsoft if we don't start training our minions at a young age? This is a real oppurtunity for for some *nix related project to have a superb progammer on it's side. We don't want him to fall by the way side when he learns 'Windows2K' in college and to get a job working for the evil empire (MS).

I am willing to put up with a little inhumanity (or even outright genocide) if it is in the name of Linux!!

Quick, now chant with me:

Linux is good, Microsoft is evil
Linux is good, Microsoft is evil
Linux is good, Microsoft is evil
Linux is good, Microsoft is evil
Linux is good, Microsoft is evil

Network protocol layers

[phutureboy]

Teach him about the ISO/OSI model of network layers. An understanding of abstraction layers can be applied to many things inside and outside the realm of computers and networking, including operating systems, markets, anthropology and (perhaps most importantly) lasagna.

--

Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[barracg8]

• I'd like my teaching to steer towards cutting edge technology.

Don't.

Anything 'cutting edge' you try to teach a nine year old will be useless by the time he starts shaving :-) (I'm assuming male).

I'm a final year student, at a very good, academic, university. In the first semester of our course we were taught SML (a functional programming language, a style quite unlike procedural languages such as C) and MIPS assembly. Throughout the course we have touched on lisp, c, java, sql, perl, uml, and many more on options that I didn't take. All the time we have been given a good foundation in hardware, networking protocols, algorithms, patterns, and software engineering.

Give the kid a strong academic education. Teach fun stuff, sure, but make sure you teach dull stuff like orders of complexity of algorithms. Give him as broad education as you can - introduce him to as many areas as possible, and if he is a hacker, he will sit up all night studying the key areas that interest him anyway. That's just my $0.02.

cheers,
G

Math !

[gupg]

The most important thing you can do is give him a very solid math and physics basis. Programming is easy; any trained idiot can write code (not always good, but it will work). What is hard is abstract thought. We have few people who can do that well. Once his fundamentals are strong (and I am not talking about elementary math; I am talking about advanced math), then he can figure out anything.

Re:Math !

[dopolon]

This is so true. Programming has not much really interesting in it except the actual abstraction that goes with it. I mean, most f what you learn in a language is syntax, and so on... Also, programming is fun, but I think that in terms of beauty it can't be compared to math and physics

Keep it balanced.

[brad3378]

Young minds are impressionable. I theorize that his mind is also. Despite our ability to "read between the lines", young children often don't have that ability. Try your best to keep him book smart, but also street smart. VERY few people are both, but of the people I have met who are, ALL have become extremely successful in their careers. It is important that he learn the "hardcore" theory, but if he doesn't practice it, what good will it be?

I work as a Mechanical Engineer Co-op in the Detroit area. Most of the Engineers I know specialize in the automotive industry, but guess how many I would trust to work on my own car? I'll let you know when I find one.

And for God's Sake, Don't get him near any Law books, We sure as hell don't need another Jeffery Fieger!

;-)

What they said ++

[photon317]

First off, I'd second the notion others have proffered here that you must be very careful not to push him too hard, to give him a good social experience, etc..

Second, while he may be prodigal in a sense of what he can learn, despite occaisonal appearances to the contrary, he is still very much a child psychologically. You need to read some very good books on child development and psychology to try to determine what stages he is currently going through. Understanding his current emotional stages will help you a lot in dealing with him properly. Perhaps even an exploratory visit to a child psychologist would help even more to iron these things out, since they're especially hard to determine in children like these.

Third, here's my personal insight. I was a "child prodigy" type that never got pushed much at all. When I was 8-9 years old, I was already making post high school scores on standardized tests. Nobody pushed me into any advanced fields. My parents did a little in the form of tutoring me up to a few grade levels ahead of myself over the summers between school semesters. I also got my first basic interpreter around that time, and then quickly moved (on my own, no pushing) into assembly and later to C.

I feel that my life turned out very well, and that I have nurtured my own curiousity without any extra push. I can also see now in hindsight (not much, I'm still only 24, but whatever) that as much as I believed that I understood things at various ages, there are some things that no amount of raw intelligence can teach you. There are some things that must be learned over time. And these are not sappy things like true love, these are concepts important to creative processes and learning.

I would also note that of great benefit to me was a lot of overseas travel and living as a child. I believe now more than ever that immersing a any child in as wide an array of situations and experiences as you can helps to maximize them in a very natural and gentle way.

Re:What they said ++

[yostinso]

I agree with the whole focus on being open-minded, rather than sophisticated in only one area. I'm not nearly as smart as this kid seems to be, but I have been noticeably ahead of my age for quite some time. Part of this is because I was well-rounded from the outset. Like photon317, I've traveled overseas fairly often, which gave me a huge boost in being able to adapt to different situations; spending time in a country where no one speaks your language or has the same ideals obviously encourages you to devise new strategies for dealing with people. Also, no one seems to have mentioned this yet, but besides reading good literature, he should also be exposed to some at least decent science fiction. It's one way to easily introduce new concepts and encourage thinking outside of the box. I don't have many specific recommendations off the top of my head, but the classic political SF (Ayn Rand, H.G. Wells, Ray Bradbury) are good places to start. Knowledge is like an island. The greater the area, the more the coastline of what we don't know. -- Pat Murphy

Re:What they said ++

[photon317]

Oh yeah, I must be dumb because I ripped through a single-draft short posting and managed to typo a couple of words. You got me. If only I was as anal retentive as you I would be smarter.

I've learned not to give much of a care to spelling. It's about communication. Everyone got my point, and you wasted some time correcting my spelling in print, something everyone else's brain took care of for them almost unnoticeably.

Ig yoj can'r resd thit sintinc, uv get serous prablems.

Re:What they said ++

[xee]

You make many good points, but allow me to push one more on to the stack.

I would've liked it if I had been offered a tutor like this kid is. Just like photon317, I have taught myself most of the "advanced, gifted" stuff that I know. My dad was there to help me, and he already knew a surprising amount of it, but for the most part, I learned my shit, and then he and I discussed it.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it was better that I learned it all on my own. I think that if I had someone to answer all of my questions, than I would not have read all the books that I have read. Hmm, this debate will continue in my head now. Dammit!


-------

Re:What they said ++

[animalTK]

YEP! No bragging there.(referring to the parent message) I say, "Just let the kid grow up". Who is one to brag. You only have so many years to live. The only fun way to live them is with friends, and whatever path you take down the road along the way is great. The parent letter is obviously flamebait by using the original email to try and show off his own smarts. One last thing that I say. "The eternal enigma inside the mind will ultimately decide your fate." Quote AnimalTK A.K.A Chris Eschbach

Re:What they said ++

[frankie]

careful not to push him too hard, to give him a good social experience,

Agreed. Let the kid progress at his own rate, and follow the interests that he puts forward. Another essential thing to remember is that you don't have to go it alone.

• JHU Center for Talented Youth - Study of Exceptional Talent
• Hoagies' Gifted Page

Re:What they said ++

[kurgan_cyberdude]

I think the use of the word "Prodigal" is not correct either:

Main Entry: 1prodigal
Pronunciation: 'prä-di-g&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin prodigus, from prodigere to drive away, squander, from pro-, prod- forth + agere to drive -- more at PRO-, AGENT
Date: circa 1520
1 : recklessly extravagant
2 : characterized by wasteful expenditure : LAVISH
3 : yielding abundantly : LUXURIANT -- often used with of

Re:What they said ++

[samantha]

Many child prodigies aren't really just children after a pretty young age. Trying to keep such a one safe to be "just a child" is often deadly boring and stultifying. Kids like this have very little in common with others their own age.

I stopped being a child in many ways by the time I was 9 or 10. One of the most frustrating things in my young life was being treated like just another child. Was I adult? No. But neither was I a child psychologically or intellectually. I was somewhere uncomfortably in-between for a very long time. I remember at age 8 telling my mom, "You know, I am a lot younger than you and have a lot less experience, real-world knowledge and common sense. But I am just as smart (at least) as you are. So don't treat me like a dumb little kid who doesn't know or understand anything. I understand a lot more than you think I do. Explain to me what I don't know." She didn't really get it. It simply freaked her out. I think she expected my head to start spinning around. :-)

why dont you ask him..

[gimpboy]

'd like to eventually get into nanotechnology, but are there other fields that are starting to become edge-breaking that would be beneficial to learn?"

really though-don't try to live your life through this kid. if he wants to know about nanotechnology then thats what you should teach him. dont try to teach him what you would want to know.

he expressed an interest in java? then teach him java. if he just wants a good primer on computer programming i would look into the art of computer programming by donald knuth. this book is language neutral. it teaches how to be a good programmer. this can then be applied to any language.

use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that

teaching method

[hexdef6]

I know you didn't really ask this, but I had to offer my advice on teaching method. I have experience in this area, as I was assessed as having a 191 IQ when I was very young. I think the most important thing is to let the kid make his own connections. If he is curious about something, explain it, and maybe offer related ideas at the same time. The capacity most gifted children have is the ability to understand things at a higher level - to be able to see the thing as it is, but also as it relates to everything else. The kid will take care of mapping everything out, but you have to provide the details. If he asks a seemingly unrelated question, answer it. It is related - just not in your mind. If you can feed his mind to his taste, he will advance quickly. Trust me. Thank you for your willingness to teach. Teaching on an individual level is the most useful teaching - period. Don't worry about these people who are worried about this kid's socialization. The kid will do as he likes. Just allow him the oppurtunity. He will probably choose to have older friends, because he will be able to relate to them better than his age peers. Don't cripple him by forcing him to be around kids his age who don't have the same abilities. If that is what he wants, fine, but don't force anything. Good luck.

Jaeger
www.JohnQHacker.com
GodHatesCalvinists.com

Re:teaching method

[Covener]

I'm always surprised when I see people brag about having large IQ scores at an early age -- isn't that supposed to be the case? By the design of the IQ test, if you take it as a child doesn't it get cut by a fourth or so for your 'adult' score?

Re:teaching method

[Anonymous Coward]

What turned you into such a dumbass?

Re:teaching method

[jsz]

I agree completely. The kind of 'full-and-complete' socialization that is being suggested for your kid (going to the beach, long bike rides with other 9-year olds, etc.) is not a silver-bullet that will make him well adjusted. In fact, as many of us likely know, we can go through all that, and *still* not be socially well adjusted.

I think it's great that yr working with this kid...for myself, once a gifted kid (like many on /.), the one thing I wish more than anything was that I had someone encouraging me to go farther and beyond like yr doing with this kid. And of course, that doesn't mean locking him in a room with his hardware and his books for 8 more years until his parents kick him out...so yeah, mad props to you...continue to let this kid create, by artistic, express...

(and, also agreeing with another post, ignore the 'hype' on 'the-next-big-technology'...teach the kid math and science. good framework till he figures out which hype-machine to jump on)

Re:teaching method

[durdur]

Yeah, I was way above grade level on a lot of things, too (mostly math). But I did it without getting much formal instruction or direction from adults.

My dad got a card at a university library (I was too young to have my own), took me there regularly, and let me check out anything I wanted. H. Rider Haggard, philosophy, math, lots of things. He didn't tell me what to read. It's not clear I would have listened if he had.

A neighbor also helped out by giving me a lot of surplus electronic gear to take apart, break, repair, and generally mess with. He didn't tutor me much either. Just gave me some raw material to work with, like my dad. I picked up the EE stuff from some library books and a lot of hands-on experience.

Self-directed learning is absolutely the best kind, IMO.

Re:teaching method

[PurpleBob]

No.

Your IQ is your mental age divided by your actual age. If you got a 191 as a child and kept learning things, you could get a 191 as an adult. If, however, you burn out and stop learning things, your IQ goes down, as it should.

Children don't naturally get higher scores on an IQ test - the average child's IQ would be 100 just like the average adult's. The difference is that average children don't take IQ tests, so you don't see those scores.
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.

Re:teaching method

[hexdef6]

I was just trying to make it understood that I was kind of thrust into the "gifted" stereotype when I was young (3 1/2). Obviously, the nature of a real IQ test dictates that the subject must be a child. I took the stanford-Binet test, and that is what I am basing my IQ score on. I was tested at 3 years 6 months, and was placed at the mental age of 6 years 10 months. So please understand that the age comment was not to try and make me seem "smarter", but simply to show that I did experience the various programs for gifted children from a very young age.

Jaeger
www.JohnQHacker.com
GodHatesCalvinists.com

MATH!!!

[m.o]

The best thing you can do to this kid (apart from teaching him social skills, which many other posters mentioned) is to teach him math. He might never need number theory, but he will learn to THINK. That's by far more important than learning Java, which he'll be able to learn in no time when he needs to. It makes no sense to teach him "cutting-edge technology" (unless, of course, you want to employ him right away) - it will be gone in three days anyway. But teach him good old math, physics, chemistry - and he'll always use these skills no matter what he does.

I would recommend teaching him fun stuff in math - group and number theory, for example, and various cute problems from competitions. If you can't do that, find some prof. or a math Ph.D. at a nearby good university.

Get him this book this Christmas - it's just ten bucks.

tips

[Alien54]

Most of what follows is NOT limited to a specific topic, but is more related to how to think and how to evaluate data.

Probably, the child prodigy (anyone, actually) should be able to

• conduct research in multiple venues (includes non-internet resources)
• Learn how to quickly master the essence of a topic (for example, a language) With technology changing and advancing so quickly, this is important
• learn how to identify the essential axioms of a subject. This is fundamental to deciding truth or untruth of a topic. Most people are completely rational except for the data that they use to think with. This is the old saw of "Garbage In, Garbage Out"
• Learn to be able to spot blind spots and how to handle them. This is related to the above. It is also related to incomplete data on a subject.
• Identify factors that lead to blind spots, slow downs in learning, etc. For example, it is harder to remember something that you do not understand thoroughly. But since it take time to understand something thoroughly, most people skip this. Therefore, their understanding is incomplete, they have faulty data to compute with, and they don't remember much.
• Know how what you know applies to the real world
• Encourage curiosity, including a broad range on interests, including culture and arts from around the planet.
• Be able to use what you know to a level of competancy. A Professional attitude is encouraged

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[YoungHack]

> but make sure you teach dull stuff like orders of complexity of algorithms

I'd have to describe that as the fun stuff. Often the actual coding of the algorithms is way more dull than figuring out if they work and if they will work well.

Don Knuth and Danny Hillis

[firewort]

Introduce him to Donald Knuth and Danny Hillis. Ask him to look at obvious objects and think of ways to employ them differently.

Ask him about what kinds of problems exist and how we solve them short term. How should we approach them for long term solutions?

In this way, you're exposing him to great thinkers that have contributed to our technological landscape, while asking him to think and potentially become one of these people.

A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close

fuck that shit

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'd like to eventually get into nanotechnology, but are there other fields that are starting to become edge-breaking that would be beneficial to learn?

yo yo, fuck dis shit.. jes gots get da props to de classics: mah man Lagrange, Maxwell... an' Newton that pussy eatin cock suckin foo'. Dis "nano" shit ain't nothin' but mutherfuckin jerkoffs... heh heh ah mean, less ya got dat quantum mechanikal shit, but ya gots to get yer shit first... an i tells ya, when the shit goes down, ain't no "lectronics associates degree" gonna get ya the nanogoo. word

Let him read SICP

[ewagner]

Don't waste his time with cutting-edge distractions. Let him acquire a good CS foundation with Abelson and Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs aka The Wizard Book. Its used in the introductory CS courses at MIT, Berkeley, etc.

If he's really into EE, check out what the top EE depts teach.

Re:Let him read SICP

[jclip]

Yeah, I very much think Scheme and the SICP approach would benefit this kid much more than learning the language of the month. Here's my suggested program:

1. SICP.
2. Pascal. The language basically prevents you from writing the equivalent of "bad" C code, and Pascal compilers give much more useful errors than C or Java compilers.
3. Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, Leiserson and Rivest. Yes, working through the whole thing will take a long time, but the kid's got plenty of that. Knuth may also make sense, but avoid Sedgewick or any other complexity-analysis-lite authors like the plague.

Okay, that's a solid basis. Now the kid's preferences can come into play...maybe work through Tannenbaum's OS book while learning C, which leads into a close reading of the Linux or BSD source, etc. Or perhaps he will find some other area that interests him during that time--the advantage of the suggested foundation is that he can basically work his way into any CS subject area.

Couple of nuggets was G/T and works with

[Hangtime]

I grew up like the child you describe in that I was extremely gifted (probably not to the extent this child is) and have worked with gifted and talented children as well. With that in mind, I can relate a few things I enjoyed and how they might help you.

1. Begin with projects not just book learning. Make things into games and challenges not just straight out of the book. This is a child emotionally and they like to learn when it's fun. If you're studying something, put it in the form of game, challenge, or neat project.

2. Remember that this is a 9 year old no matter how intelligent he or she is. Unless the child has an incredibly high emotional age your still dealing with someone who is undergoing the rigors of pre-adolescence and is subject to things such as loss of attention, boredom, hyperactivity, among other things. Just do not forget child's age and be patient.

3. Take the advice of some of the early posters and make sure the child is adjusting and can interact with the rest of the children. Even though this may not be your job, it will help the child develop.

4. Have one-on-one and group time.
This is where I differ from the rest of the posters here. I went down both paths in two different schools. One, I was in class with rest of the children and the other I was brought together with other children at my own intellectual capacity. I can tell you flat out, I learned more and had more fun when I was with others that could think on my level but were still my age. So if he or she does have friends and they are gifted as well, try to get them all together and do things with one another intellectually stimulating. You don't need to dump massive amounts of knowledge just give them the right tools to problem solve. The kids will have a better time and learn more when they are all working together. Think about it, weren't projects more fun with a great group!

5. Care. Do not take on this challenge unless your 100% committed to the child. Dealing with a child who is gifted requires at least as much effort as one who has a disability. Where a child with a disability will challenge you emotionally and physically, the gifted child will challenge you intellectually and emotionally. Do not get frustrated with them if they do not perform to their intellectual capacity. Keep positive and urging then to explore the world around them. The child will progress at their own pace they feel comfortable and you are but a guide.

I am very happy you have chosen to work with a gifted and talented child and I wish you all the best. However, don't feel as though you have to cram every major new breakthrough into their brain, just show them the wonders that are out there and they will take care of the rest.

Re:Couple of nuggets was G/T and works with

[segmond]

I don't mean to be a troll, but since you "were a gifted child?". How old are you? Do you still have the talent? Where are you today? What do you regret and wish you hadn't done or done? etc etc? I am just curious because a lot of times, we here so much about gifted children, but we never hear how they end up?

Re:Couple of nuggets was G/T and works with

[anonymous moderator]

Unless the child has an incredibly high emotional age your still dealing with...

Me tinks most prodiogys no spell lik that! (change your to you're)

No actually, I know a few such people. Some are great spellers, and some are hopeless... the bad spellers are those who were good at maths and were accelerated before they could spell (like me to some extent, though I was only accelerated one year). IMHO most prodigies have great memory and concept-understanding skills and are very keen to learn but aren't quite to the same level in problem solving... sure they are better than 99 percent of the population, but the best problem solvers are actually (usually) those with a bad memory (derive their formulae every time). IMHO this is why most of the top thinkers start off being great at school, but not fantastic.

Re:Couple of nuggets was G/T and works with

[macrohard0]

I think the criterion isn't whether one was good at math and accellerated early, but more one's attentiveness to details. Some people just care more than others about getting things such as spelling right. I was good at math, but my spelling in English, which is my third language, is better than that of most native speakers.

Think ahead

[damianlewis]

I hope this kid does get a normal upbringing.

Assuming they do, I would think slightly more out of the box about this.

After all, taking into account Moore's Law and its variants as they pertain to technology, teaching this kid anything based on current technological reality is probably a waste of time.

Just looking at current trends (nanotech, genetech, superconductors, gravity propulsion systems, non-Von Neumann machines, etc.) we can see the shape of technology's future. There are however a number of more interesting fields that have not been sufficiently rigourously investigated.

I would suggest that your pupil should focus on areas related to human-machine interface and consciousness. The aim should be to give your pupil a solid grounding in how humans and machines interact, with the objective of coming up with novel ways of assimilating machines into humans.

This would include thought-controlled machines (study of brain waves and ESP), consciousness-altering machines (ala Prof. Michael Penninger's electromagnetic arrays), supra-light quantum communication, Eastern philosophy (chakras, Chi, etc.) and AI (inference engines, neural nets, goal-directed reasoning, etc.)

With a little bit of football thrown in, this kid will have mind, body and spirit all nicely covered and might actually come up with something of benefit to the rest of us dullards who write flakey operating systems and like playing with soldering irons.

---
Three men walk into a bar...yawn

A chance of a lifetime

[Natales]

First, I think you have an incredible oportunity in your hands. These kids are part of a new generation that is coming, and they will pretty much decide our future some day. If his intelligence is as developed as you say, teach him the building blocks in all the areas, icluding technology. He will use them as a lego and will create the next step, or may be something totally different. Teach him about who we are, as human race, and how interconected are all of us now. Show him how important is that the next generation learn to put the individualism in second place and do something just for the fun of making our lives better and richer for everyone, everywhere.

Now, to don't get "moderated", I'd teach him:
- Object oriented programming (independent of the language, C++ is you must)
- Parallel programming for massive parallel computers
- Neural networks and genetic algorithms
- VR and new ideas for man-machine interfaces

I would try to focus his intelligence in non-traditional and non-legacy systems, instead of using Linux, Windows or other old OSs as a base. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Linux fan, but the "new thing" can be totally different, and he may be the one to invent it.

If he's already going with the analytical stuff...

[suzerain]

...then teach him how to paint, or photography, or graphic design on the computer.

Better yet, help him write a graphics manipulation application, and then have him use it to composite some visual images, and teach art appreciation in the process.

Teach him how to play guitar, and then record the samples into the computer and show him what a waveform looks like, and write a VST plugin to manipulate the sound and make it sound like it's in a concert hall or something.

I'm making the same point as a few others here, but basically, make sure you stimulate both hemispheres of his brain. At this age, I think it's just about exposing him to as much as possible.

The truly brilliant people I know are those who are grounded in many disciplines.

Most important ability:

[JimDabell]

The ability to learn for himself. Find him a problem to solve, that you know he cannot solve with his current knowledge. Make sure he has enough books and other material to learn how to solve it. Make it interesting (building a robot or something :). And FFS make sure he doesn't burn out - teach him how to take time off.

powerlifting

[jackmott]

teach him powerlifting

Re-inventing the wheel

[pranalukas]

>He wants to get into programming (already asked me about Assembly and Java), and wants to design an OS (the next Linus Torvalds?).

My opinion is: you might want to teach him not how to design an OS, it is better to teach him to design a useful application. This world is already quite full of operating systems, but still lacking of high-quality applications in some OSes

Making yet another OS means that we have to re-invent the wheel again (except when the current OS can be improved but the leading programmer doesn't want it to be improved). It's better to improve rather than starting from ground zero, except when there's already a fatal fundemantal design that is hard to be fixed (eg: Win95/98/NT/2k registry)

When I was about 15 years old, I also wanted to make an OS (even without good knowledge). Then I bought a book "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by Andrew S. Tanenbaum - Prentice Hall a book about Minix. That time, I didn't even understand what UNIX was (neither TCP/IP or networking), and I didn't know what IP address meant. I read about memory management stuff (swapping, etc) and about how to access PC intr 0x13 for reading fixed disk, bootstrap loader, etc. But later on, I realize that I'm alone and doing all that stuff will just waste my energy, since I didn't have any internet connection that time (1995?) - there was no BBS/internet in my city (I didn't even have a modem). I didn't live in America/Europe where you guys have BBS/Internet. But anyhow, I still enjoy reading that kind of stuff. It's really good to enrich our knowledge, pretty neat!

Anyway, you might want to teach him how to make cool networking applications (eg: instant messanger, telephony, etc) or graphic stuff or some other useful application for real life, it's less painful than making yet another OS from ground zero again. Good luck!

Re:Re-inventing the wheel

[pranalukas]

The registry was designed to get around all the design limitations of ascii text files as a config mechanism. If you would learn to use it properly, you will find that it is quite powerful and is quite far ahead of the unices from a design standpoint. Perfect - no, but neither are text files. I imagine the unix world will come to many of the same design conclusions when they actually come up with some advanced infrastructure for the kernel. That will probably never happen, though, with all the fragmentation.

I don't understand why you can say that registry is the right way. It is one of the biggest fundamental flaw in MS-Windows. Most Windows apps store their config in the registry. Now, if the registry corrupted, the OS crashes. It can't be edited by hand, and we have to try "regedit /c". The more the registry is used, the slower the OS is. Try installing an application that heavily use Windows Registry. When you uninstall it, it doesn't reduce the size of the registry.

I imagine the unix world will come to many of the same design conclusions

No, thanks. It will never happen. I refuse to do the same way as Microsoft use registry. You can ask any other Linux programmers besides me. If I have to edit anything by hand, I'd prefer regular ASCII text, rather than using regedt32.exe. A centralized configuration in 3 files (SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT and HWINFO.DAT) is just a very impractical design. Also, by the way, I don't have to reboot everytime I make a simple change of configuration in Linux and FreeBSD, unlike Windows 9x/NT/2000. If I'm running a very critical application on Windows, for example: e-auction (eg: e-Bay) that say, running 400 transaction/minute and I have to reboot for simple changes -- and the reboot takes 3 minutes, I would've lost 1200 transaction.

Saying that Registry is a good design is like saying bubblesort is efficient. Thank goodness I don't have to follow Microsoft's mindset in designing an operating system.

Isn't it interesting...

[rweir]

that nearly every poster so far has assumed that the 'child prodigy' is a male?

Re:Isn't it interesting...

[merrell]

First word, second sentence is "He" which suggests that the child is indeed male.

Re:Isn't it interesting...

[Capt. Beyond]

hmmmm, I guess you didn't even read the heading up there-

He wants to get into programming

Help him be humane.

[yet another coward]

He ought to learn to read and play music. Let him learn some foreign, non-computer languages. Give him access to good fiction. I favor learning mathematics above computers and electronics. Let him program the computer, too. I would have enjoyed learning to work with microcontrollers to make computer-controlled machines.

Also encourage a sense of humility.

Dead Poets Society

[merrell]

While it is important to teach him math and related subjects, don't forget about liberal arts. If he becomes simply a tech tool he will have a very empty life. Take him to MOMA in NY, let him read philosophy books, give him an anthology of American literature. Teach him how to *think* first, and then fill him with knowledge later. Watch "Dead Poets Society". :)

Re:Dead Poets Society

[NevDull]

This person's got it right.

I recently met a girl who's so amazingly well rounded I'm in awe. She talks about philosophy, history, math, music, and pretty much everything else with an understanding of how it all fits together. She's got knowledge and passion... and spending time with her gives me that rare feeling of humility.

If he resists non-technical things, introduce him to DaVinci.

As another poster has mentioned, intelligence is about making connections between and among things. Help him have an amazing variety of connected and disparate things with which to develop those connections.

-Nev

Re:Dead Poets Society

[naasking]

She's got knowledge and passion... and spending time with her gives me that rare feeling of humility.

That must be a pretty rare thing to experience huh? Geeks usually have this mentality that they are intellectually superior and it often gets them into social trouble if they take it too far... it's happened to me a few times. But it happens because it's rare for geeks to feel humbled. I think that would definitely be a good thing for every geek to experience... especially me now. Maybe it'll actually motivate me to study for my three exams this week instead of reading Slashdot. :-P

I fully concur with the DaVinci suggestion though. I never had any mentors or heroes as a kid, but he was the one I looked up to the most. Truly an extraordinary guy.

-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"

Re:Dead Poets Society

[NevDull]

Thomas Jefferson's another good one, but mentioning him tends to begin arguments about slavery, dead white men in power, etc.

-Nev

Whatever he wants

[outofoptions]

This is just something general from the parent of a 'prodigy'. When my son was three I remember standing with him in a convienience store. He was begging for a comic book and I was being the good parent and denying him his request for more juvinile reading material. Two by four time. He had learned to read by the age of three and I was quibbling about his choice of reading material. He got the comic book and I got a lesson. Let his interest by my guide. It is less a matter of helping someone like this than giving pointers and staying out of their way.

Don't miss this window.

[laborit]

First of all, I recommend you take the advice of the "throw a football" contingent with the proper seasoning. Yes, you don't want to raise this kid to be an outcast. But you also don't want to cheat him of the best developmental period he'll ever have. Being a preadolescent genius isn't just an opportunity to learn some stuff a few years before everyone else -- it's an opportunity to get that matertial into a brain that's still plastic and growing. People who learn math at that age have an opportunity to think in ways that come very hard to anyone older.

I would say absolutely push this kid to learn challenging material (I'll get to the content in a moment). Also do the big brother stuff, or find someone who can. I'm not sure about pushing peer-group interactions, because it would be hard to find a peer group. Dumping him with other kids his own age might just enforce the perspective that most people are dumb and not worth his time. Teaching him to look for information and answers from other people, online, might be a start. It would be nice to find others on his emotional and intellectual levels, but I can't tell you where to look.

As for material to study, I would stay away from the "bleeding edge." You never know what will collapse, or what will be radically reconceptualized. Anyway, the best programmers (just for example) aren't the ones who have been writing C since they were five; they're the ones who have a deep understanding of the mathematics that underly all programming and automatic systems. These are the people who will always be valuable, who can understand any new development. They'll still be advancing our understanding after the market-glutters who learned perl and java for two years in college are used up and discarded.

Rather than specific fields, then, look at the commonalities among the big trends in science and/or computers, and see what their basis is. Don't study nanotech, study physics. Don't study cloning; study cell biology. Aim for knowledge that won't become obsolete, and will create a firm foundation for whatever comes.

Apropos of the pop neurology above, I'd recommend the more arcane / symbolic fields like math and logic. It's a rare opportunity to be able to build those things into the brain on a low level, and should not be discarded. This is probably also a good time to teach music, even though the idea is somewhat tainted by prodigies who had their lives ruined by overbearing tutors.

I think my advice is good. But to put it to proper use, you'll need compassion and sensitivity. The most important thing is to foster a love of learning, not to crush it. So make sure that at every step, your charge is studying something he loves; make sure he knows why it's valuable and just how cool it is.

- Michael

-----
Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!

Re:Don't miss this window.

[sklib]

The article itself mentioned that the kid almost had an electronics degree. I don't really see how you can get an electronics degree without already taking some programming classes and having a thorough understanding of discrete mathematics. By the time you're reaching any kind of degree, you've got to be already pretty damn knowledgeable, and you ought to already know what is interesting and what is worthless. If the kid is really all that smart, he ought to think like a 20-year-old and know what he wants to do, otherwise he just has a lot of knowledge and can score well on tests because he has an uncanny ability to map problems to appropriate solution algorithms, and then carry them out.

In any case, if the kid can learn electronics by the time he's 9, it wouldn't be too hard for him to understand at least some part of most of computer science, as well as some other fields, by the time he's, say, 15. Then he will truly be able to contribute to the field of computer science (or whatever else he decides to go into).

Just consider an ee/cs curriculum at any major school, and go with that. Those programs are heavily researched and will probably offer everything one needs to succeed.

Re:Don't miss this window.

[sklib]

Worthless or not, it takes at least *some* knowledge to get any kind of degree. You can't just page through a textbook, say "LOok at that, it's a transistor" and get a degree, you have to know at least something!
My point is that a decent college curriculum ought to provide the foundation for any kind of exploration the kid wants to do, and that he already has a good idea about what to do.

On a completely different note, nuts to making your own OS! Just improve what's out there already. It's really easy to make something small and shitty that no one will use. The point is to make something eveyrbody can make use of.

Re:Don't miss this window.

[superyooser]

Aim for knowledge that won't become obsolete, and will create a firm foundation for whatever comes.

I'll second that. Taking your suggestion to a broader level, it's very important for young people to establish a firm foundation that will enable them to apply their knowledge in a responsible and ethical manner. Think: white hat hackers vs. black hat hackers, or Allies vs. Axis Powers (Nazis).

The ethics issue is especially important in this age of nanotech, biotech, cloning, spying technology, and advanced warfare. What kind of perspective toward people do you want to be possessed by the future leaders of [Big Brother] governments and [evil, greedy] mega-corporations?

Fill in the blank: All humans are _________ .
a) accidents
b) monkey mutants
c) sacred creations of God
d) figments of your imagination
e) CowboyNeal

How one answers this question is far more crucial than which branch of science one studies. Having realized this, I can't suggest a better study material than the Bible.

Lest you dissent from my opinion (a little Ginsberg lingo :-), check out the Skeptics Center.

Re:Don't miss this window.

[grappler]

Well when you use wording like "accident" or "monkey mutants", your opinion of evolution clearly shows through. I could also decide that the incredible odds against our showing up are miracle enough, and that I wouldn't want to squander such a rare opportunity by leading the next Nazi revolution or destroying the environment.

You seem to have the naive view that morality can only exist when based upon religion. Moreover, your particular religion.

Lest you object to the idea of athiestic morality, here's a site that should give you plenty to chew on.


-------

Sports

[luugi]

Make sure he plays lots of sports. Don't think that sports will "slow" down his learning. He might even become the next Jordan/Torvalds. A healthy mind needs a healthy body.

Re:Sports

[PurpleBob]

Yes! Great idea! Make sure that you stifle him by making him do the one thing that smart children generally hate!

Imagine this the other way around. Consider the people who are "born athletes" - how would they have ended up if instead of practicing sports, they had been forced to solve differential equations?

Fitting the child into a mold is NOT the answer! If he _wants_ to play sports, of course, let him, but don't assume that throwing a football at him will make him "better" in the long run.
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.

Re:Sports

[luugi]

By the way, a lot of people who are "born athletes" do solve differential equations. I consider myself one of them. A lot of these top atheletes end up graduating from college and becoming great athletes. Kids need to be introduced to lots of different things. He won't have any chance of wanting to play sports if he is never introduced to it.

Re:Sports

[MJN222]

I disagree. Playing sports (at the appropriate level) teaches teamwork, and in what sounds like this kid's case, that there is always someone better than you. If the kid just sits in a room all day studying he won't learn these "life lessons" until it is too late. When I think about my childhood, I realize that I would never have learned these things unless I played sports.
Just my $.02

prodigy

[DrunkenRoach]

He'll have time to learn Java, if you want to teach him OO begin with Smalltalk.

Non-verbal communication

[AtariDatacenter]

Naturally, I'm going to make the assumption that many others have had and guess that he has stunted social skills. Its questionable if you will or won't be able to teach such a child those things at this age.

However, if the prodigy doesn't grasp the social skills naturally, you can teach the technical side of social interaction, which is non-verbal communication.

Some information communicated non-verbally is obvious. Others are subtle and can be very valuable to someone with deficient social skills.

The one problem with the prodigy is that they must be constantly stimulated and be put on a real path with an achievable career. The "constantly stimulated" is important. Take a prodigy and send them to college for four years or so. They'll lose their edge and probably claim they were smarter before they went. Keep the process of discovery going. Stagnation kills the prodigy mind.

Charisma

[Jonathan]

The reasons is simple - socialization. Being a successful adult is as much a function of charisma as a function of intelligence.

If your definition of a "successful adult" means "used car salesman/politician", then maybe. However, I've met a number of extremely successful scientists and none of them gave a damn about being charasmatic.

Re:Charisma

[StandardDeviant]

Mmm. Science is very much about people skills, unless you happen to be the absolute number one person in your field. Corporations and government entities don't sit around thinking "hmmm, what asshead prima donna scientist can we give money to this week", and the scientist that can do great work with no coworkers is rare indeed. As a computational chemist, I think I have some insight into this world ;-).

No man is an island, in any field. Besides, having your work be your life is pretty lonely. I used to think I didn't need people very much either, but I became a whole lot happier when I realized how stupid I was being. Having friends to knock of on friday to get beer and cheese fries with is just as valuable to the soul as being a penta-PhD.

I see your web address has math in it, implying that you are a math-head. So here's an example for you: Dr. Karen Uhlenbeck. She's the math professor I just took a mathematical modeling class from. She is very intelligent (which is an understatement of truly titanic proportions), and has a list of awards from scientific bodies that's almost a full page long in condensed form. I've heard the other math people refer to her as being one of the best geometers of the past millenia, one of the founders of the modern understanding of analytical geometry, one of the people whose theories underly modern quantum physics, etc. She is by any definition a brilliant mind. You know what? She's really, really funny too. She's very charismatic and personable, and when you're around her it's like you're just chillin' with a homey (to use a term from my home neighborhood); you get the feeling that she really genuinely cares about the people studying under and with her. It's only after you walk away from class do you realize how much you learned in the process of smiling and laughing. She obviously loves what she does and has a very happy, rewarding life. My point being that she's very much a people person and yet is also, as another professor put it in hushed tones, probably one of the top 5 or 10 living mathematical minds.

--

Re:Charisma

[Raindeer]

If your definition of a "successful adult" means "used car salesman/politician", then maybe. However, I've met a number of extremely successful scientists and none of them gave a damn about being charasmatic.

If you're definition of a "succesful scientist" means, that he/she has published in a few magazines and maybe even won a medal for scientific achievement, then maybe. However, the succes of a scientist should not only be measured by the articles he has published, but also by his achievement in teaching others what he has learned and in inspiring others to explore strange new events. The charisma of a scientist can encourage a generation to follow in his footsteps. Now this doesn't mean he has to be a salesman of his subject, no not at all. But he has to be passionate about what he does. This passion is what makes it fun in the end to learn something and from this passion comes charisma.

On top of charisma which comes from passion, there should be charisma in social affairs. Why? People are social beings. What greater joys then sitting around a table with a good bottle of wine in the middle, chatting with old friends.

Re:Charisma

[Raindeer]

If you sing her praise, then at least link to her homepage:

The homepage of Karen K. Uhlenbeck

Oh yeah, she does seem to be bright and funny. Just read the comment on the bottom part of the homepage. (and we'll just forgive her the horrible formatting)

P.S. Maybe she is somebody for a Slashdot Interview

Re:Charisma

[Jonathan]

Oh, quite a few scientists I know are *funny* and pleasant to talk to -- most intelligent people are. What I mean is that essentially none of them go for the back-slapping but insincere "Hiya Bob, how's it going? How are the wife and kids? Gee that's great/terrible!" approach that passes for social skills among society at large.

Re:Charisma

[ilkahn]

Just for my own curiosity, would you be able to give me a list of these extremely extremely successful scientists and none of them gave a damn about being charasmatic. Because, having known quite a few scientists in my day, I'm afraid I haven't met any of them... and most would agree whole heartedly with Mr. Donne:

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never seen to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee..."

Re:Charisma

[Jonathan]

Well, as a postdoctoral fellow, I've met hundreds of scientists (some of them quite famous), so I think I can make a pretty good generalization. What I mean about not being charasmatic is not that they are in general jerks (although there are certainly some of those) but that they don't go out of their way to be polite or liked, and they generally say exactly what they are thinking, whether it is tactful or not.

Personally I enjoy the company of such people more than that of people with more "social skills" (such skills really are mostly just knowing when it would be more polite to lie when asked a question)

Re:Charisma

[NetBoy]

Myabe not a used car salesman. but do look
into "sales training". Not the "hard close"
but how to shut up, how to listen to others,
how to listen to the intent of their questions,
to try to understand their point of view and
to treat them with respect. How to understand
your own fears and limitations. Most anything
meaningful involves others else it is a solitary
dream.

Re:Charisma

[Mike1024]

Hey,

If your definition of a "successful adult" means "used car salesman/politician", then maybe. However, I've met a number of extremely successful scientists and none of them gave a damn about being charasmatic.

Yes, but an amazing scientific knowledge won't get you laid easily, but social skills will. It might not seem that important to you at the moment, but believe me: it will seem important to the child when they're teenaged.

Michael.

...another comment from Michael Tandy.

Re:Charisma

[fprefect]

On the flip side, someone can be incredibly charismatic and not have a shred of ability -- that's where the "car salesman/politician" may fit.

Most people fall in between these extremes, and use all of their talents to be successful.

Try culture for social interaction

[kninja]

I think a productive way to learn and gain social interaction is through language and culture. Social interaction is VERY necessary to learning languages, and languages are easier to learn the younger you are. Try balancing the hardcore math and science with foreign cultures. It really doesn't matter, any culture will do, but the perspecitves and communication skills one gains from living in a different culture add depth to anyone, and it makes life more interesting. It's often easier to make friends with a foreigner. All it usually takes is a common interest, and suddenly you're talking, comparing everything between your cultures, and sometimes you become best friends.

A kid like this needs a close friend, especially if they've been told that they're better than everyone else. People like that get lonely quickly, because no one lives up to their standards for friends. Someone in a different land will probably be unlike anyone this kid has met, and therefore less likely to be held to the same standard. In other words the kid is more likely to make friends with a foreigner.

Then when you teach him how to think, he can have meaningful discussions about the world, and not just about nanotechnology or whatever. Girls don't want to always hear about science (well, most of them), and if this kid can only talk about math and science, his odds of getting a wife are slim to none.

I know math and science seem like a good area to be interested in, I'm into them myself, but math and science isn't everything in life. Life (IMHO) is about culture, and the more cultures you're exposed to for more than 3 months make you a well rounded person. This kid could be a stagnant EE by the time he's 13, or he could be cultured, well rounded, speak 5 languages, and be an EE by the time he's 17.

The one thing you do not want is for this kid to develop poor communication skills and antisocial behavior. Foreign languages will help prevent these, and it will make him feel more at home in the world at large.

I personally feel that my experiences in a different culture balance out my math and science geekiness. And I've been quite content since.

Child prodigy

[Vexler]

At the same time that we are awed by child prodigies, we must not forget that the child is only a prodigy IN CERTAIN AREAS, BUT NOT ALL the areas. A nine-year-old certainly can do certain things with astonishing facility, but we also need to remember that many a prodigy never reached his/her full potential later on in life simply because a massively imbalanced regimen of studies has left his/her character flawed and immature. Look at this person's full life, not what this person can do, and ESPECIALLY NOT what this person can do *for us* (i.e. throw quantum mechanics at him/her, etc.). Sincerely, Vexler

But let him be creative too!

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to actively suppress gifted intelligence either.

Get him creative toys. e.g., a computer instead of a Playstation. It'll do games *and* let him learn. Make sure there's a compiler(s) on that machine too. Or if he's younger, get him a large Lego set, and not the legos designed to make one thing (such as the phantom flyer). Get him the generic plain bricks of various shapes and sizes. Let him be a kid, but leave opportunities for him to *do* more if he *can* do more. Get him a telescpoe, or a chemistry set, or a microscope. And don't forget books real ones, made from dead trees. Kids will plow through an encyclopedia set on their own because the articles are all relatively short, not overly technical, encourage looking up other stuff, and result in your kid absorbing a waide and varied knowledge base. It did for me.

Don't forcibly bust him down into being "like everybody else". That's as stifling as forced tutoring.

Re:But let him be creative too!

[MaxQuordlepleen]

Make sure there's a compiler(s) on that machine too.

This strikes a nerve with me. I fondly remember the BASIC interpreter that came with my Apple ][ back in the day. Why isn't a basic programming language of some kind considered standard equipment anymore, at least in the Win world?? Even as recently as the early '90s QuickBasic was there if you knew enough to look for it.

I think this is a great disservice to children and adolescents. Back in the good old days, you were confronted with a BASIC interpreter every time you turned on your PC. Almost every kid who had a computer back then could bang out at least a few lines of code. There may be free or low-cost compilers etc. out there now but it is not quite the same as it once was.

IIRC the 800XL in that Czech hospital has a built-in BASIC as well.

Re:But let him be creative too!

[BluBrick]

I think the specialist Lego kits are actually a great idea! Kids can get great satisfaction and confidence out of building the model 'just like it looks on the box'. In building the model, she/he finds out what pieces other than standard blocks are available, and what sort of connections they can make. Later, when standard blocks won't quite do what is needed, she/he might use the engine mounts from the phantom flyer, the axle from the mediaevel siege engine and the cannon rails from the pirate ship on a single construction.

And as for the encyclopedia, teach the kid how to use them! Initially, she/he thinks they're just the same as any other books and will try to read them cover to cover. That's ok, but there's a better way.

When your young child asks why the trees drop their leaves in autumn, sit down with her/him and look up 'trees'. Explain what the cross referencing at the end of the article is for, and follow it. After a few times doing this, you will notice your child no longer asking you the question, but telling you the answer! You will find this extremely satisfying.

Learn #2

[Jedi Binglebop]

I've read all the above posts and although there is an aweful (truly) lot of rubbish up there, there's also some good pointers in it all. Here's some things I think they missed.

For the most part, I think there is an inate fear of somehow hurting an intellectually gifted child's learning, or muting it in some way. The trick to remember is he (or she), like every other child, 'is' intelligent and is capable to some degree of deciding what they do and don't want to learn. Discipline has only ever been meant for those times when a child makes a choice about their learning that is deemed 'inappropriate' by their peer/s.

The other trick is to let him/her 'learn from' you, and from what you have to offer (as little or great as that may be), rather than 'teach' them what you know.

The point made about not "diving in" to the most complex current technological (fad?) develepment/s is probably 100% correct. I've heard parents of gifted children being interviewed on TV saying they had made the mistake of putting their child too far up in their classes at school, so making the mistake of assuming the heightened intellectual level of the child will cope with anything presented to them is one easily avoidable. Start simple (grounding), let the kid learn from there.

Also there was another point made about getting the kid interacting with other kids his/her own age. Also another good idea I would think. Social contact would allow the "humanitarian" perspective to creep through, i.e. people are people and people need people no matter how intelligent this person or that person is. I would think this is the key to anyone's happiness. Other kids might learn something from this kid, and that can't be a bad thing (and vice versa).

Anyhow, I thought I'd throw that in there, since more than half of the posts above are total gibberish. Hope it provides a useful source of ideas!

-JB

Ask the child!!

[Maria D]

I think it is as bad to force the child to "play with kiddie toys" as it is to force the child to learn academically beyound his desires. I got an impression that this particular child WANTED to learn advanced computer stuff. NOT to support such desires may amount to neglect, IMNSHO. That's how much of kids' creativity is being destroyed. Go to this page for much of your "gifted" needs (I am not affiliated with them): http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

Forget technology

[Project_2501]

If they hired you to teach him technology fine.. do whatever, but if you can teach him other stuff then I suggest you do that. Technology is useless without a vision. Teach him history and the theories behind capitalism, communism. Also teach him about war and what events led to the great wars. Teach him about the major religions Chirstianity, Muslim and Eastern religion. Give him your views on these subjects but let him know that you may be completely wrong and the only one who can decide which one is right is himself and then encourage him to do research to reach his own conclusions. With this foundation he could make a great man. Don't teach him technology that would be such a waste right now. I would teach him technology only after he has decided what his values are and what he would like to do about it. I think at that time you can suggest to him which technological fields would be best suited for reaching his goals

-= Griffis =-

Psychology!!

[zCyl]

I was one of those child prodigies. I was already a solid programmer by the time I was that kid's age. One thing I wish I had learned before the double-digit years is psychology. I could make a computer do whatever I wanted, but people were a baffle for a number of years until I caught up on that front. Had I studied psychology on the side when I was that age, I think it might have gone differently.

Beyond that recommendation, follow two simple rules. Present him with ready access to core information that he wants and needs, such as programming information, mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. And then just let his inherent curiosity drive him. If you feed curiosity, you will strengthen it, and THAT will make him great someday more than learning a particular aspect of technology.

My $.005 worth(inflation adjustment)

[darrad]

My thought is that you should teach the basics of how our computers work, ie bits, bytes, the electronics of the inner workings, and then let it go at that. If someone is going to develop a new OS, then I think they need to be free of any influence from the existing OS's. The reason for this is demostrated in Linux, which is very different from MS in some ways, but the GUI is patterned after Windows. Maybe what I would really like to see is a new type of system all together. It is time for something new. If I knew what, then it might be me that this question has been asked about, but its not.

When all else fails, ask a child. Their imagination will set you free.

"Well rounded"

[singularity]

As someone who works with gifted children on a regular basis (tutor, and residential counselor during the summer) and as someone who has studied gifted/talented education, I want to give some reccomendations:

1) Remember that while the child might be intelligent in some areas, this does not always mean that he is gifted in all areas. He might be capable of understanding quantum mechanics, but his understanding of biology might stop at "We are all made of cells." Literature and the arts are often left out of a true prodigy's education.

2) School is not so much to teach you *things*, but rather to teach you how to *learn*. As others have said, teach him how to research, and how to answer problems and questions on his own. Assign projects on things he knows nothing about that will be difficult to find (some obscure historical event, for example).

3) Social skills are important. Teach him how to be "friends" with somebody. Teach him how to have fun, and how to joke around. Make sure that he sees education as something fun (more difficult than it sounds)

4) Teach him how to relax. From the sounds of it, this kid is under quite a bit of pressure from somewhere (possibly from himself, but I would guess itis external). Teach him how to take a break from that, even if it is just for an hour.

5) Teach him how to motivate himself. One day that pressure is not going ot be there and he is going to have to know what to do without it.

6) Teach him why he should be learning these things. Show the results of string theory, of relativity, of in everyday life.

7) Teach him that he has limitations. Everyone does, his are just higher than others.

The last thing I can say is to be there for him. I have helped more gifted/talented children by doing that than anything else. I have received phone calls at 3 in the morning from children I have known that just need reassurance that what they are going through is normal, that someone else has gone through the same thing.

Note: I used the male gender in my examples, but know of more than enough gifted/talented females.

The other thing I would say is to do some research yourself. Do not push him into a field, let him decide for himself. And remember that the child will soon pass your own abilities in the field. Check out some books on gifted/talented methods and psychology. There are many out there.

Good luck!

Re:"Well rounded"

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

One of the owners of Beryllium Sphere got the top SAT score statewide, and the other started college at age 12. We know what we're talking about here.

You're asking the wrong question when you talk about cutting edge technology. The cutting edge technology of my youth is in landfills now.

Academically I'd recommend good exposure to math, which is fun in itself, teaches good habits of thought and is the gateway to any technical field. Math is timeless. Another vital skill, which seems to be undertaught in schools, is composition, or what the medievals called "rhetoric". Learning to present a cohesive argument written with the audience in mind will help in almost any possible future.

The social end of it is harder.

Watch out for boundaries.
==> You are not the kid ==
You are not even the kid's parents.
As long as you remember this, you're safe from any chance of "pushing" the kid, if the term even means anything. With minds like that you can feed them, or you can get in their way, but they're going to rocket ahead on their own.

Be a friend. You're not talking to a brilliant intellect packaged in a 9-year-old, you're talking to a 9-year-old with a magnificent but isolating gift. Being a friend includes tossing Nerf balls, batting ideas around, and even occasionally saying "I don't appreciate it when you do that".

Offer things to do that require nonzero but possible amounts of work. The kid's probably used to either understanding things instantly or giving up on them. If so, that's dangerous and can lead to impostor syndrome.

Other nine-year-olds? Find bright ones, to help the kid avoid the trap of believing that s/he's the only person around capable of thought. I used to work with a brilliant programmer whose career was seriously hindered by his assumption that nobody else could be worth listening to. For dealing with normal agemates, I'd recommend explaining the concept of protective coloration.

And get in touch with Dr. Nancy Robinson at the University of Washington's Early Entrance Program.

There's more to life than source.....

[rtmfm]

There is more to learning than what is found in books. S(he) needs to learn about living. Go to museums and historical places. He might not like technology in the long run....He might be into literature. This would be something to figure out now, rather than after he gets a degree. Expose him to as much as possible. He should be reading just as many great works of literature as *nix (or BSD or Perl or whatever gets you off) books. Also....watch out for his mental health. Many athletes lose their carreers because they hurt their body. Many great thinkers lose because they get fucked up in the head.

Teach him something worthwhile

[blackcoot]

If you're going to insist on academics, you have before you the perfect opportunity to mold a good human being out of this child. Java, ASM and all that bullshit can wait -- hell, if he's half as smart as you say he is, he'll pick it up in about a month. What he needs to learn is what has been lacking in his education, which I am willing to wager a significant amount is lacking severly in art, humanities, music, philosophy etc. Challenge him and give him an opportunity to see the beauty in Bach and Debussy; show him that Frost and Lorca defy the rational quantization that has been so firmly drilled into him. Let him have his breath stolen by the sheer grandeur of a Bierstadt(sp?) or the aching power of a Matisse. In short: let him live, becuase God knows that Java and assembly and the rest of the technological litany people like to spout as if it were some holy ward will still be there when he is ready for them.

You can make him really useful...

[Boomer3000]

...by teaching him to appreciate girls and sex. Have him interested in the matter, and maybe he, with his superior brainpower, will be the first man on Earth to completely understand women. After, he can write a book and teach us too how to deal with them. :)

old computers

[moosesocks]

Teach the kid on a 286 or 386. Have him start with a blank hard drive and a cd with linux on it (preferably a distro that is incredibly hard to install!!! He will learn the basics of how an operating system works. After that, if he hasnt already, teach the kid html. You can pratically learn it in one day. Then, after that (this part is up to you) teach the kid a web scripting language. PHP is a great place to start, but so is asp, its up to you, try to make it include a database (great to learn how relational data works). After that, he will have grasped the concept of basic programming, and learned relational data. After that, a c language is a great place to go, since most operating systems are written in. Then, like someone said, go over to sourceforge.net and work on open source software. This is a much better place to start than writing from scratch. Also, just make sure the kid knows how the pc works. Take all the parts out of a relatively new one (make sure its a standard atx system, i.e. no riser cards or any of that garbage. And have him put it back in and install device drivers for it.

(my $2.00 (since i wrote so much (hmm am i allowed to put a comma inside a comma (oh well...))))

Re:old computers

[CommieOverlord]

(my $2.00 (since i wrote so much (hmm am i allowed to put a comma inside a comma (oh well...))))

A comma inside a comma? Did we flunk our grade 5 grammar class?

Re:old computers

[moosesocks]

parentheses.

anyway, i forgot a crucial comment. COMPUTER PEOPLE DONT OWN GOOD COMPUTERS for awhile. While the pentium hype was out, i was still using an ibm xt (which i could operate since the age of 6 :-)

How to cope when things don't come easy

[boy case]

Firstly I totally agree with the socialisation stuff people have written.

From my own experience of being (not very much) ahead of my peer group at school, comes this advice:

Teach the kid (if possible through experience) what to do when he/she doesn't "just get it."

Teach them real study skills.. the kind that the average kids *have* to learn to do well in the subjects anyway. Because if this kid or whoever is anything like me, they'll hit a point where they have to work a little to understand something.. and they might not know how to cope with that.

I found pretty much all the subjects at school easy.. to the extent that I never really studied, revised for exams or anything... and still was top of the class. Until around 2nd year of university, when suddenly things didn't magically just make sense to me... and I couldn't really cope with it. I didn't have the will power or self-control to sit down and actually work hard to understand the stuff.

Maybe it's just laziness. But when you go for years not finding something an effort, it's really hard to get motivated when you do.

Let him be

[SquierStrat]

I was not a child prodigy trying to get my college degree at age 9. However, I was a fairly intelligent 9 year old, and while in private school my mom was pressured to allow me to skip gradeS. She didnt, something I'm happy about. Why? I had a torturous childhood because i was constantly more worried about learning stuff than being around other kids, it wasn't until my mom pulled me out of school, started homeschooling me and FORCING me to socialize that I developed ANY social skills, i ended up skipping 7th grade, because i wanted to and could and I'm now happy getting ready to graduate at 17, like a semi-normal kid, and I don't worry about what could have been. I know I am not an idiot (mind you i gots muh poor suthun grammatic skills), and I know what I'm good at and I know how to enjoy myself with other people (I'm still working on this dating thing though!)

I promise you if you try to teach this kid all this technical crap, without teaching him how to be a person first, how to hop fences, throw fastballs, and hit home runs, he'll be worthless with anything related to computers, I'm not saying he needs to be a people person, but he needs social skills, he has 13 years before he's expected by society to perform "useful" functions.

Let him make friends (and dang it teach him how!) Then teach him programming. Then teach him how to impress his friends with programming. For love of God teach him to write a working software DVD player for linux with CSS capabilities! I'm so sick of trying to get xine or oms to work and I'm even sicker of booting to windows jsut to watch a movie!

Just my $0.50.

Re:Let him be

[King of the World]

How did your mother socialise you while at home-school?

Theory

[handybundler]

If he is truly intelligent, he will find his own way.

Re:Yeah, throw rare talent into the trash can.

[SuperLiquidSex]

Whats wrong with mcdonalds, I worked there for a year, it was hella fun, I met more chicks there than I did at my current job(programmer) and I learned how to interact with people.

i agree..something simple but stimulating

[rebelcool]

i got my start in programming using good ole qbasic, learning very simple things like graphics..making sounds with the computer. Nothing fancy, but to a 10 year old, very very fun and interesting. It kept my interest and taught me logic along the way..paving the way for more dreary forms of programming like server software and database scripting :)

Your average 9 year old doesnt want to learn how to write command scripts..even a prodigy one will WANT to learn more based on doing things with interesting results..like graphics, animation, music...

Re:i agree..something simple but stimulating

[CAIMLAS]

You forget - he mentioned the child was interested in designing an OS and learning Java. For one, Java is a masochistic language. It's evil and ugly. Second, designing and OS isn't exactly, shall we say, 'exciting' for most people. It's a fairly tedious task of precision. This kid is probably too intelligent to even want to do 'fun' things that are more simplistic. The reason they're fun for most people, is because they're not a difficult task in general. For this kid, it seems like writing a microkernel would be a 'simple' task. Thus, fun.

-------
CAIMLAS

Re:i agree..something simple but stimulating

[rebelcool]

Well sure, back when i was 11 i fantasized about designing my own bios (i thought bios was the most difficult thing ever), but I think I would've gotten quite bored with it had I actually started learning assembler and everything else you need. I think no matter your intelligence, a young programmer would do better designing something that requires less patience and more immediate gratification. Best of all, learn and become experienced with logic and good programming style before diving headfirst into something like a kernel.

Intelligence/social skills

[Cmdr. Marille]

The reasons is simple - socialization. Being a successful adult is as much a function of charisma as a function of intelligence
good point, basically. Still in my opinion intelligence is one part of being a charismatic person. But we could discuss something like that for hours
I agree with you, if the kid never develops sufficent "emotional" and "social" intelligence he will have it even harder a life than he is already going to have. As you have mentioned it is quite hard to fit into you peer group when you basically just don't fit in. It's basically a question of inerests, the kid will certainly be interested in a lot of things which others of his age won't even have heard about.
So as this post post mentions don't just concentrate on academical things, take him out, show him the world.
Teach him a instrument whatever, but don't just let him become focused on just one aspect of education.
After all he is just a young boy, just because he now is interested in computers that doesn't mean it's the only thing he is going to be interested in and if you don't show other interesting things he will never know what he has missed.

it is!

[rebelcool]

up into junior high even. very fast and gratifying, and teaches basic logic of loops, if statements... all very useful things.

View from here.

[Gray]

I used to be one of those prodigy kids.. Electronics and computers, since forever.. I could list my pre-teen milestones, but suffice to say I was a Doogie..

My advice, forget about it.. I work in the recording industry now and have never been happier.. Being the smartest whatever is a losing game, there is always some more driven smarter person more obsessed then you.. Thank god I dropped out of computer science.. The publishing game is way more challenging then any code anyway, and I have no competition for head keener..

Leave the kid alone.. Give him resources but force him to get out, not get in.. He's on the road to being a horribly depressed teenager dressed in black and reading SF in the library..
If it wasn't for the music for the walkman, I'd probably still be in that game..

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[JordanH]

I agree. Avoid 'cutting edge' and go for timeless, enduring lessons instead. Most 'cutting edge' technologies end up on the cutting room floor of history.

I would recommend a grounding in Algorithms, writing some 2D graphics to illustrate and visualize the problems and solutions.

Functional programming, which has heavily influenced much of programming language design and has been around for 40 years would be good. Toward this end, I recommend the TeachScheme! materials, which are tutorial, freely available and also emphasize timeless Computer Science lessons.

Once some proficiency has been gained in programming, go for 3D POV and other graphics which can help with learning mathematics.

Of course, technologies that are hear-to-stay, like Linux, C/C++ and Java should also be included at some point.

For socialization in an environment where this person can both excel and gain access to a peer group, you could do a lot worse than competitive scholatic chess. There's almost certainly something going on in your area, but you'll do a LOT better in a major metropolitan area with finding peers. You should be able to get some pointers on this here.

If electronics is the direction, then encourage complete programmable embedded projects. Avoid dabbling, go for palpable result oriented projects that have an end. Achievements that you can both be proud of rather than a lot of dead-ends. You might want to look into the FORTH programming language for flexible programming of small embedded systems.

These would be my choices, but of course, I don't know the 9-year old. You do. However, I do want to get back to the avoiding 'cutting edge' technologies. Would you be going cutting edge for this persons development, or for your ego?

If this person is interested in a particular technology, then by all means, investigate it. You would also do well to encourage Science Fiction and readings on Relativity and Cosmology to fire the imagination.

---

Re:Teach him to shoot better than Evariste Galois

[dopolon]

I agree. Galois was so great, mathematics, would probably have gone much farther if only he could have lived a little longer.

Bill Gates might disagree

[Kiss the Blade]

It is a little known fact that Microsoft have an enterprise known as The New Brains Project which is intended to harvest child prodigies and give them the assistance they need, especially child prodigies in the computing field. There hasn't been news on this for some time, and perhaps for this child this would not be a good idea, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows anything further about it.

KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.

Re:Bill Gates might disagree

[z00t]

DERRRRR...

I guess you missed the `Nine-year-old genius Rupert Tollefsen does not exist' part of the correction.

"
Correction
There were a number of errors in the 4/1 cover story on Microsoft's Thought Recognition technology. Robert Warburg, an analyst with the Bay Area venture capital firm Klein & Fairfield, does not, as was implied in the article, exist. Nor does Klein & Fairfield. Microsoft has never employed Vikram Narayan, who does not exist. Workers from Vanstar do not deliver Dell PowerEdge processors and Precision 610 workstations to Building 8 every Monday morning. Microsoft does not keep an account with Radio Shack. Radio Shack does not employ an individual named Scott Roberts. The waitstaff at the Redmond Red Robin does not turn the bar televisions to Pokemon every afternoon. Russell Meyer does not publish the zine Faster Machine, Kill! Kill! Carnegie-Mellon Institute of Technology does not employ an individual named Daniel Rabelli. There is no newspaper called the Soap Lake Tribune. There is no such thing as the Foundation for Online Privacy based in Bethesda, Maryland. The Kansas University Cognitive Science Project does not employ E. Claire Winchell, who does not exist. Nine-year-old genius Rupert Tollefsen does not exist, although the editors would like to thank Andrew Rowny, his mother, Lori Larsen, and his grandmother, Greta Larsen, for lending his presence to our writer, Bruce Barcott, and photographer, Rick Dahms. Seattle Weekly apologizes for these, and other, unregrettable errors.
"

Negative Social Aspects

[noz]

Agreeing or disagreeing with other interresting points about social exposure and intellectual diversity, keep the child focussed (not necessarily on specifics).

Most of all, intellect and social charisma being important, so is social intellect. Ie. Keep him away from the grass and acid :)

"Some people say that acid gives you brain damage... What did you say??"

Initial advice

[slaytanic killer]

I want to answer the original poster's real question, and not just tell him to take the child out for socializing. Other people have made that clear.

How does the child like to learn? Does he like books or teachers; both perhaps? If books, then make sure you know the best books/sites out there. He doesn't have to read them, just let them be there if he wants to look through them. Eventually, he will, reading little parts as he is interested. I hear this book is entertaining for children, and he can read it if he tires of the adult tone of other books.

As for teachers... let him go to the nearby large university to visit.. Speak with a department head. Perhaps he can hang around the science grad/undergrad students doing their little projects. He can find out what people are doing, and hang on for as long as he feels like.

Of course, he can't be shut out from his peers. The goal is that he should be as comfortable with humans as with books, or at least have the chance to be, if he isn't wired that way. There are many arenas in life he should be able to feel comfortable in; I have personally known people who've been advanced a little too quickly, and they've turned.. sick in certain ways. Without an oar. Don't fawn over him for the one attribute. He is not to be a trained performing dog.

There are other places to ask, if you want more in-depth information by people who've gone through this.

Re:Rule of exceptions.

[taliver]

COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC....

Whatever is the real truth, whatever is the complete law, is, by definition and by virtue of completeness, without exception.
Notice, I used "rule" instead of "Law" or "Truth". Although most laws of physics as generally stated are only valid under certain assumptions.

By rule I mean anything that starts as "As a rule of thumb I'd say...", or, as an example, "Any body who murders should go to jail." When dealing in generalities, (as this rule is), we see that exceptions always arise (e.g., a soldier during war, a spouse killing the abuser, a parent protecting a child, an executioner).

Rambling through all that, I still, as a rule, stand by my sig.

Nanotechnology

[Mike_K]

I'd like to eventually get into nanotechnology

I hope you know that teaching nanotechnology isn't talking about nanotechnology. It's a field of science (engineering), like any others. If you haven't done graduate studies in string theory, you probably won't be able to teach it. If you haven't done graduate studies in biomedical engineering, you probably won't be able to teach it. If you haven't done graduate studies in nanotechnology, you probably won't be able to teach it.

So stick to what you know. If it's nanotechnology, then go ahead. But other fields that are starting to become edge-breaking suggests to me that you're just throwing buzzwords around, looking for topics.

Oh, and taking the kid outside and having some fun other than academic won't hurt either (as has been pointed out MANY times before).

m

Re:Rule of exceptions.

[Mr_Dyqik]

There are no laws of nature, as they're all theories. The only laws that can have no exceptions are mathematical theorems, and they are still dependent on the assumed axioms being correct (which isn't really a problem, if the axioms are stated as part of the law)

Child Prodigy

[Alomex]

I was a few years ahead of my classmates, so what follows is from my own personal experience. I don't know if it applies to your kid:

• have the kid meet other people in his mental age group. Somebody who is equally excited about a science project as he is..
• sometimes obvious social skills go over the head of child prodigies because they are so illogical and arbitrary. The social rules of backstabbing for one are among the most complicated social construct he will ever encounter (it ain't called backstabbing for nothing).
• teach him how to get a girl.
• he's a kid, find ways for him to have fun. He won't enjoy GI Joe, he's too smart for that, but he can still enjoy some other form of role playing that involves more imagination.
• breadth rather than depth. Rather than making him an expert in some arcane part of electronics teach him about all the natural sciences, social sciences and the arts.
• teach him leadership skills. He's likely to end up managing people (peterson principle) so teach how to do it.
• listen to the kid and adjust your schedule accordingly.

A Difficult Field is...

[Voltage_Gate]

May I suggest the field of Biochemistry. Even if we figure out all we can about genetics and have all this DNA technology, it doesn't mean much if we can't figure out how enzymes and metabolic paths work and hence, how to cure diseases when these things go wrong. It's an endless field (for now anyway) and it leaves the door open to all kinds of chemistry, materials science, and physics alternatives. Not that I'm against CompSci, but that's more of an art I think because it's been contrived by humans - it is whatever we create it to be. Chemistry is more of a natural science because presumably it's the same where ever you go in the universe! Whether we understand chemical laws or not, they will still exist. That's my 2 cents for the weekend. :)

Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[fable2112]

Sorry, but I can't let this one slide.

It's "usually" the smart kid's fault when he (or she) gets picked on? It was my fault that my high school French teacher couldn't control the class well enough to keep people from blatantly copying my tests, and the kids gave me trouble because I told them not to? It's my FAULT that I think academic dishonesty is inappropriate?! I think this is a good thing.

It's not a question of being a "ball hog" or having all the right answers. If someone asks me how I did on a test, am I supposed to lie for the sake of other people's self-esteem? Is that truly the message you want to be sending here?

Girls, in particular, have enough problems with being conditioned into believing that being intelligent is a negative thing. Bullshit comments like "smart kids who get picked on have only themselves to blame" make it worse.

Shall we then say that students of a different race deserve to be made fun of, that women who dare to walk alone at night or wear something more revealing than a nun's habit deserve to be treated as sex objects if not acutally threatened with rape, or that someone who has a physical or mental disability deserves to be harassed for it? And that objecting to this is "spoiling someone's fun"? Is this REALLY the message you want to send?

Think about it.

Never mention the "P" word.

[Eneff]

The "P" word, of course, is potential.

To a child prodigy, this becomes a more vulgar and profane word than damn, fuck, or Microsoft could ever be.

I was a child "prodigy," though probably not to the level of this child. However, I started to rebel because I started to be told how much potential I had.

The subtle meaning kids pick up on is: I would love you more if...

Affection becomes conditional, at least in the eyes of the child.

---

Now, as for what to teach him, I saw a great suggestion below. Teach him communications! Teach him how to observe his classmates, and make it a game to be able to interact with them.

In the "bleeding edge" areas, teach him whatever you can connect to the basics. However, teach him what he is interested in. Pass subjects by him, and see what makes his eyes shine. Have him research the basics. Then start developing small projects that increase in complexity. Most importantly, make him complete the project. This will teach him the power to finish, something many people don't learn until much later in life.

However, above all, MAKE SURE that he understands you care about him, not his brain. This is the most important. Without this, all the training may not matter because that brain will be shattered with a .44 before he can ever reach his potential.

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[Ando[evilmedic]]

God. If only I had moderator points. Bravo!

- Ando

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[}{avoc]

I am in the same situation, though I am not near as advanced as this kid. Right now I'm a freshman in highschool, and I am rebeling like you said.
Thanks to my grade on my honors lit final, I'll pass with a 89.825, which does NOT round up to an A. My parents are upset about this because "I am an A student, and I did not apply myself."
This pisses me off.
I agree with everything you say in your post about love, rebellion, etc. The statement about love being conditional is extremely accurate, and I guess my girlfriend can attest to that considering how insecure I am about certain aspects of my life.
Anyway, I just wanted to agree with you, have a nice day.

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[flimflam]

I went to a school that didn't give grades, just evaluations (and self-evaluations). I was recently looking through my old report cards and almost without exception they end with "Although he is clearly gifted, Jesse is not living up to his potential" -- despite the fact that I was taking classes several years ahead of my grade-level. I never really understood what it was exactly what they expected of me... I think I just wanted to have fun, but they wanted me to be Einstein or something...

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[duketor]

I was a child "prodigy," though probably not to the level of this child. However, I started to rebel because I started to be told how much potential I had.

*shudder* I agree wholeheartedley.

I've been hearing that since kindergarten, and it's because of crap like the p-word that I actively fought school board bureaucracy to get removed from "gifted" classes later on.

What a lot of parents and others don't realize that is that when they say this to kids, they're usually thinking of potential from their perspective. (I liken it to telling an anarchist that they have the potential to make a great politician.)

Encourage the kid, give him/her your time, your support, make the resources to learn properly available, and perhaps most importantly, don't get all upset if, a few years from now, this 'prodigy' decides to turn away from technology and become a poet, or something.

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[toast0]

trust me... after a while your parents will get over the a student thing...

i was looking over my high school transcript the other day and i got a 3.14 gpa w/out getting a's in too many classes other than 'easy a' classes, but then again i didn't do too much of the homework stuff.

being an arogant slashdotter, i'll say i was in the top 10% of students in terms of actually learning stuff, but was at about the 30% mark in gpa

at my school, it would have been trivially easy to copy all the homework and fail all the tests and get a similar or better gpa, so i made my priority learning (and doing enough hw to get passing grades so i didn't have to take classes over). if you plan to go to college, getting a 4.00 gpa is useful for scholarships, but being able to remember and apply knowledge assumed learned in previous classes is much more useful

hope this is somewhat helpful

feel free to email me

Re:Never mention the "P" word.

[toast0]

the only time i can stand hearing the P word is when talking about energy (potential energy, electric potential (voltage), etc)

if somebody uses the P word in vulgar terms they get mentally blacklisted and i redirect them to /dev/null as best as i can

glad to hear i'm not the only one

Can anyone answer this question?

[MobyDisk]

FortKnox said "He wants to get into programming..." not "I want him to get into programming..." It is great that everyone mentioned the social aspects of development, and that people are concerned about him being pushed. These are good points, but of all the highly moderated posts, not one answers the question!

The question is "what would be the appropriate things to teach him?"

I would recommend the same tools that an adult would use. Books, the internet, and lots of hands on experience "hacking." Take a loose path, lean it more in their areas of interest, and less toward the purely academic areas (unless they are into that). Most good CS people claim they learned mostly on their own, and liked it that way. Let him/her be more self-motivated than a normal child at that age.

^^^^^ Moderate this up!!!

[fable2112]

I was homeschooled for four years, and many of the local homeschoolers where what my mother and I nicknamed the "homeschooling anarchists." They were so very big on this "don't push the kid!" stuff that they just assumed my mother had pushed me to learn to read when I was two years old.

She didn't push. She got out of my way, mostly.

There were moments I wished to be a "normal" kid, but most of the time I realized that I was actually having more fun and enjoying life more than most of my so-called peer group, and I was learning a more important socialization skill -- to get along with people in other than my immediate age bracket.

Let the kid follow his own interests, whatever they may happen to be, as long as they don't involve something that is likely to do him physical harm or get him (or you) locked up with the key thrown away for the rest of his life. For that matter, we should be doing that with even non-"prodigy" children. :P

There's a universe out there

[onelove]

I was also a child prodigy type.

If I could have one thing different I would have had my teachers and my parents expose me to nature. To the rest of the world.

Take him snorkelling, interest him in astronomy, take him hiking in the wilds, argue politics with him and make sure you don't take away his natural desire to play with the other kids.

It's taken me many bitter years to get beyond a gnawing unease that was simply caused by boredom.

Technology may be - in the context of society - to be considered difficult, challenging or hard - but ultimately it's a no-brainer with inherent limits.

Nothing compared to the complexity of a marine reef habitat or even a field of flowers.

Nothing compared to the complexity of LIFE.

To be taught as a child that life is merely a frivolous diversion from serious stuff like math and science is to have the best part of one's entire existence amputated.

There are no words to describe the pain.

- onelove

Re:Yeah, throw rare talent into the trash can.

[ConsumedByTV]

If you would have sex with someone that eats that food, I can only imagine what you might eat...

Why BASIC?

[p3d0]

Man, why'd you have to go and spoil a good point by recommending BASIC? There are few languages with such a great capacity to teach bad habits, except perhaps for this one.
--
Patrick Doyle

I kinda know one...

[Beowulf_Boy]

I kind of know a child prodigy.
He's a sophmore in highschool and is only 14, (well actually he's only about 6 months younger than me) he skipped 8th grade, and is skipping his senior year. The principle is mad at all his teachers because they can't keep him occupied, and slow down with the rest of the class too.
He gets straight A's all the time, but never has homework.
For my age, (15) I'm perty damn smart. I'm the second youngest in my grade (the other dude is the first) I pass 4 out of 5 classes with A's, and am getting a beggining Java book for christmas.
My suggestion is don't let him breeze by doing all mental work, make him do physical labor as well.
I'm damn smart, but on weekends I still work with my dad (we own a treemoving company www.instanttrees.com) and do alot of physical labor. I bet hardly any computer geek out there had had to horse around 500 pound tires to change truck tires after school.

I've always had problems understanding why learning comes so hard to some people. The little miss stuck up brat in my class gets straight A's, but complains about "How I had to take 3 hours to get the rough draft done for this report", when I had it done in 15 minutes. Or why people sometimes don't do their work, as when they come into Math Class with out homework, its always been an automatic thing for me to come home and do my homework.

Trust me, its not any fun.

[patr1ck]

I'm one of these so called child prodigys('cept im in my teen years).
Heres what you need to teach this kid.

• forget computers
• a social life is necessary

Yes, i know im contridcting myself, but you can help him while hes still 9, and not in adolescence. Projects are good, but dont get involved in one that could get media attention. That was *my* downfall at 9(if your curious, i made my towns website (in need of update that im working on, but anyways, back on topic...)) After that, your social life starts to go away -- and your junior high school "expierence" turns into a living hell. Show him some of the cooler parts of life, i.e. going outside, and things like that. Once he gets too involved(like me for instance), it will be too late. Everyone will know that hes good with computers *if* hes in the media about it. Teachers will start asking him questions in the middle of class saying "hey, how do i use spell check?"

Being different is great -- your unique. However growing up unique has its downfalls, in that no one [your age] will listen to what you say (no, they'd rather say your gay) and because you think at a much advanced level than everyone else your age, all the kids your age think your pretty, stupid (for thinking logically)

Shortened answer: computers should be a side area, let him learn about other stuff first.
He'll thank you in the future.

To reach the edge, you must start at the hilt...

[SuperKendall]

Cutting edge stuff is good (though I would say that Java as a core is not cutting edge anymore but more an industry standard).

However, I think it's perhaps better to start on general CS knowledge which serves as a wonderful base for whatever he wants to do with computers. Perhaps he'll want to be the next Linus, but he might also want to be the next Feynman and if that's so it's good to give him the best grounding in CS possible so he can exploit computers to the fullest in other fields of research.

My starting point? Look at the Teach Scheme! project. After Pascal, Scheme was my first language I spent a lot of time in while at college and I'm a lot better for it now using whatever langauge I choose. Scheme is a great way to start learning CS concepts and is quite powerful as well. I think Java is a great language and use it all the time at work, but Scheme is a better place to start an education in advanced CS concepts. The Java KVM on Palm is a good second place to go though as you can build small apps really fast (look around developer.java.sun.com to find the current beta KVM for the Palm).

As for the "go outside" people - that's great, if the kid wants to do that. But just as you don't want to push him technically where he doesn't want to go, you don't want to push him into outside activities he doesn't care about. As a tutor, you should help amplify what he is and wants to be, rather than shape him. If he gets really into a computer project and wants to spend a year doing just that, I personally think he should be able to and I do not think it will hurt his "socalization" skills in the slightest.

Also, consider this - he's probably getting some socalization skills just from the tutor being around! And better ones at that - why would you care if he can socalize well with a bunch of nine year olds when he'll end up interacting with adults? Far better he learns to deal with people in an adult manner. That's the final goal of socalizing kids anyway, to be able to work with other people well.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Reality Master 101]

What you just wrote bears so little resemblence to what I actually wrote that I'm a little stunned. Why don't you go back and read it, and compare it to what you wrote (objectively), and I think you'll learn a little something about yourself.

Look, I got picked on throughout school. I know it sucks (Believe me, I know). But I have also faced up to the fact that 99% of it I brought on myself. Proof? There were plenty of smart kids in my school that didn't get picked on (and you know some yourself). What is the difference between them and you/I?

Which brings up another question: Why are smart people so poor at analyzing themselves? Why do they hide in these excuses that it's "the teacher's fault" or go to extremes like "oh, so what you're saying is that it's OK to make fun of mentally disabled people."?

I am extremely thankful that I was able to look inward and figure out where my social problems came from and do something about them. But I find it really strange that it's so rare that smart people are able to fix themselves.

Sorry, I don't mean to single you out, but Slashdot is a lens on exactly this type of individual. And you're post was a clearer lens than most.

--

cs and other stuff

[paulschreiber]

when i was at shad valley a few years ago, our computer science people talked about finite state machines, turing machines and other cs theory stuff. [as a cs major, i didn't run into that sort of stuff until third year.]

at the time, we looked at the ideas, found them confusing and foreign, we asked why. the explanation -- and a good one -- was that a strong problem-solving background will always be useful. had they taught us the 1996 idea du jour, we would have skills that were no longer useful.

so in that vein, spend a good chunk (but not all) of your time giving him or her a basis for learning.

that said, i'm a big believer in learning by doing (works for me). have the kid build a web site (i.e. backend), learn OOP (I like Python), work on some ACM contest problems and stuff.

have the kid learn other stuff, too. maybe they're the next john lennon or william gibson (i.e. music, writing, design) or whatever.

Paul

Were you ever really a kid?

[yardgnome]

Judging from your post, it sounds like you're just making up having a rough childhood from things you've seen on TV.

If you're a smart kid in elementary- to middle-school today (or within the last 10 years), you most likely have problems unless you're also a natural social butterfly.

Sadly, part of school is dominance games. Some kids rise to the top of the pecking order. And to maintain that status, they have to show how much power they have over other kids. But they couldn't pick on anyone who's too high up on the social ladder, or they'd be seen as an asshole.

And guess who's usually lacking in social skills during those formative years? You got it....the different kids. I'm talking about anyone who's a little weird, in any way. And people with smarts are different.

Because of that, smart kids don't have to be smart-asses to be picked on. It doesn't take announcing the answer first to be targeted. All it takes is getting most of the answers right. You're right, it does sound like you were a smart-ass, by announcing the answer to a problem before anyone else had started working. But most smart kids, including me, werent. In fact, I never talked during class unless called upon by a teacher. However, the other kids started to catch on to the fact that I always knew the answer. And that's when trouble starts.

warped notion of success

[q000921]

Do you really believe that Einstein, Churchill, Gates, Jobs, Ellison, Ford, Clinton, and other "successful" people are models of good socialization, happiness, and well-adjusted behavior? What you learn on the playground may be helpful in figuring out how to influence other people and appear "charismatic", but there are many other ways of influencing people and getting what you want. Besides, the 2.5 children, public education, be-a-child, play-within-your-age-group upbringing is historically a pretty recent phenomenon, and the US results are, shall we say, not overwhelmingly convincing.

More likely, many really smart people figure out pretty quickly that a good life is not about taking the biggest risks, driving the biggest cars, or having the largest number of people grovel at your feet. They live just the way they like, doing what they enjoy, and they can easily figure out how to do it. And, you know, for some that means a pretty excentric life style. So what?

Music

[Mike_K]

Get the kid to study music. It's been shown that study of music increases ability to learn. Most of the people in my engineering undergrad program had some sort of music training. I think it enhances intuition - music is not rigorous, it's not right or wrong, but it still can be good or bad. You have to feel it. Intuition is similar - while it can be right or wrong, it's mostly difficult to understand exactly why it goes one way or the other.

If you're not qualified to teach the kid music, talk to the parents, maybe they can find somebody to give him/her some music lessons.

m

here's what you do

[Pzykotic]

take him to disney world, and knock some sense into his over-bearing vicariously living parents. Oh, buy him lots of candy and play baseball with him too :)

-Pzy

Well.

[JohnL2112]

1.) Read Nurtured by love by Shinichi Suzuki.

2.) Teach your student how to evaluate sources, and validity of arguments. Introduce him to scientific method.

3.) Practice problem solving in fields he is unfamiliar with.

4.) Make him tutor kids younger than him. At first he will go too fast, but if he works hard, he will develop empathy, patience, and learn about his own learning process. And if he does a good job tutoring, he will learn that people are capable of what he is capable of if they have a good teacher.

5.) Introduce him to Socrates! Make him aware of his ignorance. Nothing is more detrimental to a prodigy than a false belief that *they know something*...If you compare what a prodigy knows and what a "regular person" knows to all the knowledge NO ONE knows yet...the prodigy and the normal person are indistinguishable.

6.) Teach the kid a meditative/artistic activity...music or martial arts or just plain old meditation. Child prodigies often have the same fears or inverse fears of everyone else. Everyone needs to learn to be calm and to be at peace with oneself...to deal with stress, to deal with feelings of hurt etc..etc..etc..

7.) Love the kid with all your heart. (not in some messed up NAMBLA way mind you.)

8.) Make the child supremely happy and have him learn how to share his happiness with others.

Mathematics

[mathematician]

Give him/her a good grounding in Math. After that anything else is much easier to learn.

read research!

[Maria D]

Well, what ARE peers? Should we be so mechanical as to define "peers" as "people of exactly the same age"? I mean, there are TONS of other considerations to be considered - culture, interests, and yes, intellectuality... I think every person should have an opportunity to have many different interactions with different kinds of people - people of the person's choice.

Some Misc Advice

[Nato]

In addition to the good advice already offered about building social and personal skills, I'd recommend the following in regard to programming.

1) By all means, teach him to program. I think many bright kids are frustrated by their inability to implement their ideas. Sure, he can explore math, physics, and chemistry, but only programming will allow him to satisfy the creative urge he's already expressing.

I'd suggest also teaching him the tools of creation in the physical world as well - welding, for example - as soon as it is age appropriate.

2) Help your student choose small projects that they stand some chance of completing. Instead of focusing on "building an OS", focus on the pieces he's interested in as long as it is interesting, then move on to other stuff.

When I ran a programming SIG a few years back, I frequently saw bright young kids choose overly ambitious projects and then drop them unfinished after a few months. In some case, the project exceeded their abilities, but more often they tired of the grunt work after they had finished the "fun" part of the project. And so they should; it's more important for them to learn than to ship.

3) Encourage him to publish or exhibit the things he creates. Creation for ourselves alone, or to satisfy a requirement, is insular; creation for publication is communal. It teaches that he can contribute and, over time, will lead to confidence in his abilities.

Teach him that he can do anything

[Squiggle]

The most important thing to teach your student is that s/he (I'll use he from now on) can do anything. This means:
He can be a geek and learn math and computers.
He can be a jock and get involved in sports.
He can be an artist and paitn, sculpt, etc.
He can be a writer, poet or director.
He can be a musician, a traveller, and a dreamer.
He can be a friend and a hero.

He should learn that its OK to be something other than a prodigy. This means:
He can be stupid.
He can be silly, embarrassed, and ashamed.

He should learn that other people can be all of things too.

He should learn that being happy is learning to love life; your's and every other life.

He should learn to find joy in the little things.

He should learn to never stop asking, "Why?"

He should learn that almost everything he knows he ahas been taught rather than experiencing it himself, and should take that into consideration when he thinks he "knows" something.

Most importantly I would teach him about heroes. People that he can respect and admire. Fictional and historical. Western culture is a lack of hero's in it's entertainment - check out Hayao Myazaki's films (http://www.nausicaa.net/) or give him The Lord of The Rings.


~Squiggle

Learn programming first, THEN write an OS

[X]

Okay, here's a few obvious things:

• You have to have a fair degree of experience understanding programming before you start tackling an OS.
• I'd start the guy off perhaps with a good teaching programming language, like Smalltalk or Python.
• The best way to learn programming is by either reading the code of other's or doing it yourself.
• Operating system design is actually NOT that cutting edge (at least compared to nanotechnology).
• If you want to get him started in learning about how OS's work, I'd suggest Tanenbaum's work (despite his differences with Linus), particularly Distributed Operating Systems and it's predecessor, Modern Operating Systems.

If you want a cutting edge field that will lead naturally to nanotechnology, I'd suggest molecular biology and genetics.

Math, programming, socialization, etc.

[HDaemon]

The first thing I'd teach him if he wants to learn programming is math. Real programming is heavily math oriented (In my opinion, to the point where language-specific knowledge is worthless since you ought to be able to pick it up quickly). Also, it was mentioned that he almost has his electronics associates degree. I don't know about the math level required for it, but I imagine it is quite trivial (You can go though a lot EE classes with nothing more than basic calculus knowledge). There are those that mentioned Knuth, but that probably isn't the best place to start. Understanding Knuth requires a massive math background (some of the problems in there are incredible complex and theoretical). Teach him calc (if he doesn't know it already), differential equations, linear algebra, real algebra (rings, groups, fields, etc), complex analysis (ESPECIALLY if he wants to do EE stuff).

As far as programming goes, I'd teach him Scheme before anything else. A lot of programmers start with languages such as C/Pascal/Java/etc and then find it incredibly difficult to go to languages such as Scheme. If you learn scheme first, however, it's quite easy to move to C/ASM/etc. I don't know how much of a JAVA proponent you are, but at least in my opinion, it ought to be used only for user interfaces.

And like everyone else has been saying, make sure he has a normal social life. All the "child prodigies" I've seen have been incredibly introverted and have few, if any social skills... also, if he truly is a prodigy, don't neglect the other subjects as well. English, history, foreign languages. I realize this is simply my opinion, but I don't really consider those that excel in just one area to be prodigies. Also, how much theoretical work is he doing? If it's all application based, then I would take another look at whether or not he really is a prodigy. It's not hard to fill a child up with enough knowledge for them to crank through problems, but if they aren't able to see the theory and make connections between things, then they amount to nothing more than an impressive human calculator.

teach him the ultimate lesson

[mr_gerbik]

get him a prostitute.

-gerbik

Heirarchy of needs

[Bulldawg2000]

For all those that say socialization is not important should look at Maslow's heirarchy of needs:

1) Physiological: hunger, thirst, bodily comforts, etc.;
2) Safety/security: out of danger;
3) Belonginess and Love: affiliate with others, be accepted; and
4) Esteem: to achieve, be competent, gain approval and recognition

If the child feels alienated, his potential will never be reached and that would be a shame.

tips from a gifted child

[jacobb]

Hi.
I myself was/am a gifted child, with an IQ of 174 (Cattell). I think that i might be able to offer some help. The most important thing for the child at this moment is friends. Not sports or hobbies, or anything... just friends. They will develop in the child all the necessary social skills, etc, etc.
As to what to teach him, take him to a library all day for a week, and note what he reads (ask him first, not to go towards fiction). He will migrate towards what he loves to do. THAT is what to teach. I have hated all the times in my life where i know what i was being taught was important or whatnot (like your example of nanotechnology), but i really only had a slight interest in it. "Teaching" isnt really the right word, but if you help him learn (believe me, gifted children are never 'taught' something) what he loves, he will be following the best course available.
all you must to is to make available information, and he will learn. that is all that is important.
just my 2 cents

Re:Heirarchy of needs (the others)

[Bulldawg2000]

Sorry, I forgot the others.

5) Cognitive: to know, to understand, and explore;
6) Aesthetic: symmetry, order, and beauty;
7) Self-actualization: to find self-fulfillment and realize one's potential; and
8) Transcendence: to help others find self-fulfillment and realize their potential.

Now looka at number 8 and tell me socialization is not important

I was one of these kids.

[zesnark]

I was one of these kids. Fast forwarded through school, did one of the most demanding academic programs in the country, and hit college early. And guess what? It's really not worth much. Despite my being a very social person, I just don't have much of a normal social group. I know a fair number of people who did the same thing, some at a much younger age than I did. Most of them wish they had just stayed in the normal school system and done normal school things so that they'd have a normal same-age peer group.

So help this kid. Obviously he has the capability to learn so help him use his talents. One of the best things you can do is give him the opportunity interact with people more at his own level in his areas of interest (i.e. older people in industry, etc.). But don't encourage him to skip through school, and see if you can get him interested in something beyond computers and electronics.

My last recommendation for this kid is to introduce him to some equally brilliant but much older people (grown up child prodigies). They will understand him to a degree that few other people will be able to match.

z

My Experience as a "Gifted" Youth

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't post often on Slashdot, but I think that this article hits close enough to home that I really should. I hope that I can bring some perspective to those working with or who have "gifted" children. I have some recommendations based on my experience at the bottom of this post that you should read if you aren't interested in wading through this entire post.

I've been characterized as "gifted" youth for as long as I can remember. I was enrolled in an accelerated program here in the Seattle School District called APP. Although the coursework was a bit more challenging than in the regular programs, I was still quite bored. Because of this, I forged ahead, teaching myself Trig and BASIC at 11, Calculus and OOP with C++ at 12. This was really enjoyable, but there was always a big discontinuity between what was being taught in classes and what I was interested in learning.

A solution to this problem was discovered by my parents, who found out about a program run here in Seattle called the Early Entrance Program which takes kids under 15 and, after one year of very rigorous preparation at "Transition School," sends them into the UW as regular students. To get in, one has to take the SAT and school higher than 1300. I did that, and proceeded to enroll in this program.

The other kids were VERY talented, and it was strange to go from the top of the class to the middle (and sometimes the bottom!). And they were what you'd expect: geeks. I don't mean to say that as a derogatory comment, but basically they were very technical, very smart kids who didn't place a big emphasis on social skills and following mainstream trends. This wasn't true across the board, but it was the majority of the class. It was an interesting experience, and I made friends with quite a few, but I had more than the usual number of personality conflicts with others.

I left out a few details here and there, but for those of you that are interested in hearing more, take a look at this page by someone who enrolled in the program and dropped out. It's a few years old, but fairly accurate.

Anyway, college was interesting, though I felt kind of burned out (at 14!). My friends were still mostly kids from the program, and I didn't integrate well into the college environment. That started to change sophomore year, when I was able to convince my parents to let me move into the dorms. This was one of the most pivotal moments of my life, because I socialized with normal people and I got out of an environment that was extremely focused on academic success and got into one that was more about being happy (and by that I don't mean drinking all day either!). My experience in the dorms changed my perspective on EEP as well, because the closer I looked at the people that graduated from the program, the more flaws I saw in the entire process.

I found that a lot of people were graduating with 3.9+ GPAs but were unable to find jobs in the real world. I found that a lot of people were going directly into grad school without knowing why they were doing it. I found that a lot of people were sacrificing so much of their life and of their childhood without knowing what they wanted to do. These are 16 year olds living life from test to test without any long-term perspective. Quite frankly, a lot of these kids should have stayed in high school instead of coming to the UW so early. They simply weren't ready, and when they graduated, they weren't ready for the real world either.

When it really comes down to it, my advice boils down to two phrases: Be Practical, Be Well-Rounded.

My most important piece of advice: Human civilization consists of PEOPLE. As talented as this kid is, he NEEDS to be able to get along with other people. And it doesn't matter what field he's in, there's still plenty of networking and politics in research sciences! He needs to have the skills not only to do what he likes (technical stuff), but he also needs to be able to communicate what he's done. If he doesn't master those skills, he'll probably end up managed by people much less intelligent than him (maybe even the jocks that terrorize smart kids in grade school!).

Getting him involved in sports, getting him to experience normal things that a typical 9 year old would experience is a great idea. It's a good idea to encourage his abilities, but make sure that he gets that same level of encouragement in other activities that an intelligent adult might look on as "unnecessary."

As for me, I'm graduating at 19 (I'm 18 now) in Applied Math. I had to take a few quarters off here and there to "find myself" but it's been worth it. I don't need to graduate a full 4 years ahead anyway! I'm planning on going to a top business school after a few years, and I'm doing as much schmoozing as I can to make that dream a reality. Additionally, I'm starting a EEP Student Association with a few other students to make sure that this knowledge that I've gained through a few quarters of horrible grades gets spread to the younger EEP students. I think that they have a lot more to learn about the world than they think they do.

Thanks for reading.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Fnkmaster]

Well, I agree with a lot of what you say. But I disagree about the 99% of the time it is their own fault. I think you may be misunderstanding or inaccurately remembering some things.

When I was in junior high school I was severely taunted, teased and picked on by certain people, for no good reason. Primarily, it was a function of the fact that I was in a lower-middle income area, and these people were uneducated, ignorant and had the wrong values instilled in them by their families. I was smarter than almost everyone in my school at the time. There were a handful of other particularly intelligent folks at my school (two of them ended up with me at Harvard, one at U Cal Berkeley).

Then I moved (twice actually) and ended up at a private school in New York, surrounded by upper-middle and upper class people who valued education and success. They still gave shit to kids who were smart-asses, people who were obnoxious were still disliked. But I wasn't hated for my intelligence and I DIDN'T HAVE TO HIDE IT. Not flaunting it is one thing. Actively concealing it is another entirely.

I went on to do quite well at this school, as at others before. I was still in the top 5% of this school intellectually, but I was accepted by a lot of people socially, and I tried to avoid being arrogant or obnoxious about it, but never had to nor wanted to hide it.

My point is this: being in a healthy environment where you can express yourself and not dumb yourself down is wonderful, and being arrogant will always make people dislike you. But being surrounded by morons who are themselves arrogant and obnoxious and project their frustration and anger onto you is a hostile environment which fosters the kind of arrogance you refer to (it's hard when your self-esteem is constantly shot down not to hold on to the one thing you KNOW you have over everybody around you).

In any case, a pleasant mix of arrogance and humility, and knowing when to use both in a maximally effective fashion has allowed me to get extremely far in the world, much farther than IQ alone would ever have carried me.

Well I'm learning by myself...

[dwlemon]

Why can't he?

A bit ironic that some prodigy gets a tutor while people like.. well, me.. have to do it on their own. Almost flunking out of HS and trying the college thing for the 3rd time. 'Course I am tutoring other people in my class who aren't "getting it" as far as programming goes (C++).. I know some of them will never "get it", but I may as well try and help out. I'm the class know-it-all for once.

(My whine for today.. I know, I suck at the karma game.)

Slashdot'ers More Mature than I Realized

[LM741N]

I was very impressed by the responses. Slashdot'ers are much more mature than I ever realized. I think there are also alot of us out there who in some way missed out on some of that "normal" childhood. We now realize it, but improving one's socialization when you are 40 is a lot more difficult. (And sometimes I think that sitting around all day behind a keyboard *does not help*)

OK, let's try this again :)

[fable2112]

You said that most, but not all, of what smart kids go through, they bring on themselves. That their problem is that they are arrogant and condescending and act like they are better than everyone else. That other people don't want to be around them because they are no fun.

You're working with a stereotype here more than the reality. I have a problem with this. When I was in school, there was a long period of time that I specifically went out of my way not to contribute to class discussions etc. because I didn't want to be seen as the stereotyped obnoxious brain. And it didn't help worth a damn. I had skipped a grade, so I was the youngest one in my class, and people knew how old I was. The kids I had trouble with were STILL only friendly when they wanted to copy my homework, and nasty to me when they figured out I wasn't going to let them.

I had, and have, friends. Real friends. They don't treat me this way, and they don't consider me an obnoxious overbearing bitch. :)

I overstated my case, yes, but your advice is dangerously close to "pretend you don't have a brain and everything will be fine." And there is FAR too much of that going on as it is, especially for girls. And yes, it did hit a nerve, and I should have tried to be a bit more objective. But I still consider it irresponsible to tell a smart kid who's having trouble dealing with the cruelty that s/he's surrounded by "it's all your fault! Hide your intelligence! Pretend you are exactly like everyone else! It's more important to be liked than to be right!"

Hell, I still deal with that at work. I went to my boss about a mathematical error that the person who was training me was telling me to make, after first pointing it out to the person who was training me and getting screamed at for my trouble. Once my boss understood what I was talking about, she said "well, this won't be a popular decision..." WHO CARES if it's "popular" or not? We get audited, we have to follow basic mathematical and accounting principles, they were not being followed in this case, and the manager is reluctant to fix a major mathematical error because it's UNPOPULAR to do things correctly?!

I think this is absurd. If that makes me arrogant, so be it. And yes, I've strayed off topic a bit, but the point is that I don't think it does any good to tell bright kids that they need to play dumb to fit in, because all it does is reinforce the stereotype that "smart = social outcast," and makes kids and adults ashamed of their own intelligence.

Re:OK, let's try this again :)

[magus_melchior]

I overstated my case, yes, but your advice is dangerously close to "pretend you don't have a brain and everything will be fine." And there is FAR too much of that going on as it is, especially for girls.

Case in point: The Fashion Club from "Daria".

robotics

[eric17]

Sounds like a natural robotics guy. Get him a lego mindstorms kit if he's not got one already.

Teach him that different languages are used for different purposes and have different strengths. Show him Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk, assembly, perl, Prolog, C. Teach the concepts behind each, and let him play.

Teach him OS concepts as they come up. Show him how CPUs work. Make sure he's got access to an open OS so he can read the code and muck with it.

Above all, don't get in the way. :-)

ART

[sottovoce]

Get out some paper and paint and do some artwork with him!

Art excercises the mind, but in a different way than intellectual studies do. I find it really beneficial to take breaks from the computer and do something tactile and creative.

-Justin

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Com2Kid]

Yah, I want to rip your head off right now.

We are so POOR at analyzing ourselfs?? Excuse me.
Look up the word *INTROSPECTIVE* in the dictionary some time, then come back and argue. I spend hours in meditation each learning about who I am and evaluating my past actions, somthing that most average highschoolers DO NOT do. I help anybody who asks for help, if somebody is doing somthing wrong I wait awhile and if they can't figure it out I politly help them. Sometimes it is appreciated, othertimes it is not. There are some students who persist in harrasing me throughout the school year, after I have had enough, I punch them (granted, not the most graceful solution, but whatever the new age psychologists tell you, IT WORKS). Being a bit over 6 foot tall and of medium build helps also (I can understand how someone of a light build could get picked on more, but that just makes the bully's even more guilty).

Even if YOU made most of your problems come down on you, don't think everybody else does. That is no different then saying all woman are responsable for their own rape, just because one of them was a cock tease. Even she wasn't responsable for what happened to her, the person who commited the crime is. Even if a person instigates violence against themselves, it doesn't mean it should happen.

What's more, if people are too damn stupid to spend their time STUDYING, then damn right I'm going to answer the question first. I work my ass off learning everything I can, and I am going to take *PRIDE* in that, damnations to hell towards anybody who challenges my right to take pride in the work I do. If a star football player gets all the girls, then I at least get to answer the questions in math class before everybody else. If the jock is jelious, then mabye he should cut back on the sports and up the study time a bit.

Some teachers say that learning alot doesn't come easy, and that I need to understand that not everybody can learn things as fast as I can. Suprise surprise, I wasn't born with all the knowledge I have, I had to work for it too. Just because some hoaring cheerleader is unwilling to spend time away from parties at at the books, doesn't mean I should lower my mental performance to her level. People spend an hour a day studying and then are jelious when I walk in the room with 6hrs a day of studying, and kick their ass on the test. Hey folks, if ya want to do good in school, TRY WORKING. Its the same as the assholes who complain about me having a graphing calculator (even though graphing calculators are standard requirments by this time). They complain about how they are too expensive, all while whering a $20 baseball cap, an $80 jacket, a $100+ pair of shoes, and carrying around a bucketload of $20 cd's.

They could get a calculator AND a computer if they concentrated less on their social lives and more on schoolwork. Of course some people want a social life, ok, thats fine, just DO NOT BOTHER ME when I do better in school then you do. I don't bother you about all the parties you goto, I made a choice not to do such, and you made a choice not to be social. Thats what I say to people like that, and if they are still pissed, THEN ITS THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

That is how I treat people, if they have a problem with me, its exactly that, *their* problem. By not being meek, I cut down the number of people who harrass me to one or two a year, and quite frankly, everybody in school has one or two people who harrass them (its kinda a vicious circle, everybody harrasing everybody else in turn, heh:). One day I walked into my Cisco networking class, said jokingly, "Hey, I want a standing ovation when I enter the room," and you know what? I got it, just as jokingly. Even the bullies stood up and applauded. What's more, the assholes in the class who used to bother me don't anymore now, I can stare anybody in the eye and make them shiver. Yes folks, the evil eye does indeed exist, and its a darn sweet tool. While it doesn't make poultry stop laying eggs, it sure is heck darn effective at getting people to move out of your path and turn the other way. Thanks to that colmbine thing, you can wear a trench coat (I myself don't) and get the same effect. The amount of nerd harrasment after colmbine dropped dramaticaly in my area. Of course I am going to a lower class school, so the kids are a tad bit smarter then those assholes in the middle class districts who instantly jump on any bandwagon then see passing by, and basicaly went on a witch-hunt after colmbine ;.(..

So. . . to wrap it up,

Being smart is good, its a life choice, and there is no reason that a person who makes a choice to devote their life to HELPING others in the acedemic fields should get any less respect (or disrespected for that matter) then those who have chosen a life of physical competition. In fact, I believe that the scholars should get more respect then the jocks, but hey, that's just MY highly thought about and meditated upon logicial well planned out opinion, doesn't make it any more right then say, the snap judgement of some guy who beats himself on the head for fun. (read: jocks)

Yes, exactly! Thank you!

[fable2112]

My point is this: being in a healthy environment where you can express yourself and not dumb yourself down is wonderful, and being arrogant will always make people dislike you. But being surrounded by morons who are themselves arrogant and obnoxious and project their frustration and anger onto you is a hostile environment which fosters the kind of arrogance you refer to (it's hard when your self-esteem is constantly shot down not to hold on to the one thing you KNOW you have over everybody around you).

This is very important. Sometimes (and I work with people much like this) people actually become arrogant about their own lack of intelligence. It becomes something of a point of honor for them. I find this frightening. :)

And yes, being in that environment is incredibly frustrating. In general, being surrounded by people who don't share your own values is stressful, and tends to create one of two reactions: either an attempt to reject your own values for the sake of fitting in, or holding on to those values more strongly than ever, usually in an obnoxious way that makes everyone else dislike you. Or both reactions at once, and a nervous breakdown.

The best solution does seem to be to get out and find people who share your values, but that can be taken too far, and make you become narrow-minded. So there's no perfect answer. But at least there seem to be better ones than deliberately playing dumb! :)

Re:You are superior

[Com2Kid]

w00t, troll or not, I compleatly agree.

Some stuff

[Raffi Spock]

I'm closer to that age than probably anyone else here except other nine year old prodigies, so here's my two cents (or .0466 in Canadian). First of all, give him a copy of Ender's Game. This is **the** book for genius kids. I've read it twelve times so far, making my uncle think I have OCD. Second of all, at that age I was into C. C is fun. Especially gcc, which is free. Seeing as how he's getting his Electronics degree, show him how to play with the parallel port. Maybe he can design some cool toys (read: very useful). Third, GET HIM INTERESTED IN SPACE! We absolutely need some sort of space drive, and the more collective brainpower applied, the faster it will go. As I said, my 4.66 cents.

What About a Good Foundation?

[grantdh]

In addition to all the other wisdom dumped into this thread I would let the kid have a good understanding/knowledge of the past few hundred years of learning. Ensure the kid knows where we've come from and what we've gone through to get here. Helps us to realise that we're standing on the shoulders of giants and to try to prevent us reinventing the mistakes of others :)

On the social skills - a person doesn't have to be charismatic or a jock but a good understanding of social interactions can *really* help :) - I would definitely recommend a bit of social interaction in around the science/tech. Perhaps include "Emotional Intelligence" on the reading list :)

Let him choose what he wants to learn

[Rower227]

I was a "gifted" child. When I was 4, they wanted to toss me in the third grade instead of kindergarten...when mom and dad refused (thankfully), they enrolled me in the school district Gifted and Talented program (my family certainly could not have afforded a private tutor for me).

It was sort of a directed Montessori learning environment...part of the time, you had to do classes, but most of the time, you were able to work on an Independent Study. Basically, the IS was a year-long project on ANY topic you wanted to explore. I did a my first couple on other countries/cultures, and then I began to get into computers and robotics...finally, for my last IS (in fifth grade) I discovered my love for structural engineering.

Even though the G&T program only ran through 5th grade, I kept learning things that I wanted to learn all through high school and now, into college. Yes, these things may not have a THING to do with my major/future career...but I am far more well-rounded, conversant, and social because I continue to learn things that are of interest to me.

My advice: Let the child choose what he'd like to learn. It seems that he has an interest in electronics. Encourage it, but don't limit a 9 year old to one thing. Yeah, he could probably be bumped up a grade, but supplement his classroom learning with sports and activites that he wants to do. They key is to spark interest in other things in order to make up for boredom in the classroom. The mind needs stimulation in order to grow, especially for a child.

/.

[millette]

Like my brothers suggests, the kid should consult this discussion, and take part of any subsequent discussion about his future. I mean, it is his life...

Don't forget abstract Mathematics!

[duelafn]

I am certainly biased in this statement (I am a mathematician), but it isn't just mindless propaganda. Teach this kid some abstract linear algebra. I'm not just talking about basic matrix manipulation, I mean the good stuff that is more abstract. As an undergraduate I was working with a third grader, and I taught him some some group theory. This student was not a prodigy, and I didn't expect him to grasp the entirety, or significance, of what we were teaching him, but our goals were to teach him:

1) There is more that is going on than what you see on the surface. For example, why is 2+2=4? When is 2+2!=4? There is always a reason why things are the way they are, and knowing these reasons makes understanding the concepts, remembering the concepts, and applying the concepts to other situations much easier.

2) How to look at a problem/situation and realize what is significant. This is very related to number 1, but worth pointing out. When doing algebra, the whole point is to break things down to a list of traits (or properties) that are significant, and say, all other properties are a result of these 4 things. For example, a group is a set of objects and an operation (I'll write it as +) so that a) if A and B are objects, (A+B) is an object b) if A is an object, -A is an object c) there is some object, E, so that A+E=A no matter what A is and d) if A, B, and C are objects, (A+B)+C=A+(B+C). So, what this does for us is that anything that is true for all groups, is true because of these four properties, these are the key.

Anyway, I claim abstract algebra is an important thing to teach to this kid since the point of it is to break down problems into their components and look at what is really important in any given situation. This is something that is very useful anywhere you go.

Not to mention the fact that math is beautiful!

Too applied

[the eric conspiracy]

It sounds to me like this poor kid is getting a totally one-dimensional education.

I think it's silly to be teaching a 9-year old, prodigy or not, stuff like Java or any other applied technology, no matter how bright. These topics are transient, and will have little value 10 years from now. Teach him art,languages, literature, mathematics, history, economics and the sciences (at of course a level appropriate to his talents). Don't worry about the applied topics - he will choose those when he decides what he wants to do. Your job is to give him a solid foundation to generalize from.

Re:Too applied

[Napolean]

Please, PLEASE, PLEAASSSEE...do not just teach him the sciences...as a child prodigy (former, i'm a proud college adult now!), i have to say, the biggest mistake my parents ever made was limiting me to sciences, math and computers. If this kid is a child prodigy, he'll stay a child prodigy. QUIT..get him a guitar teacher, teach him how to appreciate art. Teach him about history. When he's in high school and college, if this kid is a child prodigy, he'll be old enough to know how to learn that stuff all by himself. But he'll NEVER know how to learn about the arts and how to socialize. Thats something thats overlooked way too often. Let him learn how to construct an OS later, for now, get someone to teach him what he'll never be able to learn once he gets so technologically tunnel-visioned. also, if you really want to develop this child's mind, make sure he knows whats going on in the newspaper. it sounds silly, but it'll teach him about the world...you'll never be able to do that.

Broadest Education Possible ...

[Elgon]

Right, &ltRANTMODE&gt

You have a great opportunity here. A wonderful opportunity to help produce a kid and thence an adult who can make a contribution to the world being a slightly better place. Here are my views:

1. Don't neglect the arts. I hated english literature classes 'cause they suck but on the other hand I like to go and see plays. DO take the kid to see museums, art galleries, plays that you think are hard to understand.

2. Don't patronise him/her, maybe it's you who has completely missed the point. Be open minded.

3. Don't force the kid to learn too much but on the other hand make sure a minimum gets done on what would be normal schooldays.

4. Fun, don't neglect it. All kids like to go and watch ballgames/hang out at the mall etc... too.

5. Make sure he/she has a few hours a day playing with kids his/her own age. Musn't neglect those social skills.

6. Let the child lead their own education, don't prod them, poke them or grind down their ego by saying that something will be too hard for them.

7. Don't be afraid to tell the kid when he's wrong, but do it nicely. &lt/RANTMODE&gt

Hope this is vaguely useful.

Elgon

Weird Assumptions, people.

[Wolfier]

Maybe it's just me. I've seen enough "child prodigies" who *also happens* to have an excellent social life within their peer groups, sports-loving etc.

It is not like - uh, if he's that intelligent, he must be some inert kid sitting alone in his room doing weird experiments or something.

The assumptions you people are making is stereotypical and very unfair. Please. Being extremely good at one aspect of life does not necessarily mean failures elsewhere.

how about training him as a lawyer...

[Pheersum]

We already have the OS for godsake, why not train the little booger as a lawyer to defend it when one of the big dogs goes after it.

Ashes of Empires and bodies of kings,

Peers?

[fable2112]

Now there's a thought, get him interested in something artistic and apprentice him to some nice Laurel...:)

OK, I'm being silly.

On a more serious note: I have never much cared for the notion that the "peer group" is or should be decided on the basis of chronological age. Yes, it's probably a good thing if he has a few friends reasonably close in age -- he needs time to be a kid too. But being able to socialize with adults, or with older and younger kids, is a more valuable skill once you get out into the workforce and not everyone is the same age as you. :P

Let him form friendships based on his own interests and hobbies. Make sure he finds some other than one narrow field of academics, yes, but don't tell him that he MUST socialize exclusively with people he has very little in common with, except when he's busy being a child prodigy. That's not fair to him.

MATH!!!

[andyschm]

Math is the best general subject to teach anyone... especially at a young age. With a firm grasp of higher mathematics he/she will be able to enter pretty much any cutting edge scientific field, as well as programming, etc. Don't waste time with coding Java at age 9... very bad idea. Math is a great subject because it is both cutting edge, being pretty much the pinnacle of human intellectual capacity, and at the same time it is very stable in that many of the challenging problems in modern mathematics have been outstanding for 100+ years.

All he needs to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Men have a penis, women have a vagina.

If he's REALLY smart, don't teach him anything

[Posse Fokker]

Even relatively stupid children can find out "how to go outside and play and how to play with toys and video games and have a fun childhood".

Those "socially inept geniuses" are a stereotype, a true genius can find out rather easily how to be well integrated with society, and will find out that's important to have social contact with people. I think you are confusing true geniuses with "idiot savants", those people who have one very specific and limited ability, at the expense of general intelligence.

Give kids some credit? Please?

[fable2112]

"Kids are too small and immature to understand what's best for them."

Sometimes. Not always.

Yes, they will make mistakes -- that's why the presence of understanding adult mentors is so important. However, assuming that you know more about what's best for a person (even a child) than that person does is at least 90% of the time an act of insufferable arrogance.

Too many parents want their kids to be something they are not. I have had fewer problems with my parents in this regard than most people, but I've still had problems. Kids need at least some freedom to make their own decisions, their own (dare I say it?) mistakes.

As for me, the biggest mistake and the most wasted time of my life was TRYING to fit in with my so-called peer group as a young teenager.

Hehe

[Krimsen]

Then he ends his athletic career, broke, stupid and becomes a bartender.

Or rather, "Then he ends his athletic career, acts in stupid movies, and ends up committing an obvious double homocide of which he is cleared."

Re:Yeah, throw rare talent into the trash can.

[PoBoy]

I don't think that anyone is saying that he should throw his talent away, but I think that the kid should have a life. My god, take my brother for instance. He has a talent, he's a wizard with photo-finishing technology and he's got a job with photochannel.com. The problem is that he has no social life. Remember the words of Clarence, the angel from It's a Wonderful Life, "No man is a failure, who has friends"

BASIC Stamp

[Argy]

I realize most of this thread has addressed the greater issues of how to raise children and provide a balanced education and such, and that's really a more interesting topic.

But to address just the question asked, here's my suggestion: get a JameCo catalog or visit jameco.com, and see what educational kits and/or books they have involving the BASIC Stamp. (Or see the manufacturer's site, parallaxinc.com.) This is a puny little computer that's programmed in BASIC. If the kid likes electronics, it's a nice way of combining that with programming. You can start out with simple things (flashing LEDs), and build up to more complicated things, like insect robots...what 9 year old geek wouldn't enjoy that! There are many areas of programming to learn, and embedded microcontrollers like the Stamp avoid a lot like structured programming and operating systems, but they teach the basics, emphasize efficiency, and can just be a lot of fun. :-)

Re:BASIC Stamp

[rebelcool]

geez i wish i had that when i was a kid. I was amused when i could get 10 circles to draw on the screen in 10 different colors.

Be careful...

[Blitherakt!]

Don't make the mistakes with this child that were made with quite a few gifted children in the 70's, 80's and 90's. I'm a product of the late-70's myself and have two children (7 and 8 years) who are both scaring the hell out of me with their brain power

Don't continually tell him he's smarter than everybody else, can achieve more, is different, etcetera. He is, most likely, painfully aware of this and will have to face that fact for the rest of his life. Recognize the intelligence, nurture it but don't use it to set him apart.

Peer groups are bogus; this child probably has no peer group that's recognizable. Imagine having your current raw intellect and reasoning ability but having to deal with disappointment, frustration and day-to-day life with the emotional level of a 9 year old or younger.

That being said, it's very important to encourage friendships with children his own age; not just for the bonding fact, but to help grow the ability to talk to people. I didn't (and still don't) have friends and it shows; I can talk to anybody who's "on the same level" that I am, but have a horrible time explaining what I'm thinking to anybody else. I can't talk to people, I can't reason with people and I get disgusted with everybody because "they just don't get it."

Encourage discipline. Unfortunately, from the way the post sounded, he's already out of grade-school and doing college level stuff. My biggest problem has been in dealing with the every-day booring stuff. Having to sit through classes and go to a school with kids his own age will teach discipline to handle life in the "real-world" when stuff just isn't all that new and exciting all the time.

In short, I guess' I'm just asking that this child not be taken to be a subject of some book you order from an add in a Psychology magazine or some freakish adult-in-a-kid's-body to be poked and prodded. He's a human being and is caught between the emotions of a 9 year-old and the intelligence of God knows who.

What scares me is the "I'd like to move him to..." tone of some of the messages. Allow him to search out what he likes, don't force anything down his throat, and make sure he has the discipline to deal with what has to be done before going on to what he wants to do.

Let me address the flames I already see coming: hate what I say, disagree with everything above, call me totally wrong; it doesn't matter. I've been through it, I'm guiding my two children through it. My view of what's going on is totally different that what you'll see, as it should be.

I'm a bitter, disappointed bastard of a man at 29. Most of this (not all, I'll admit) because of the way "gifted" children were handled where I grew up; I know because I see bits and pieces of my past every day.

Yeah, I know... Get over it, it was a long time ago, blah-blah-blah. I'm not looking for sympathy or trying to start a flame war.

I'd just like to give a kid a chance not to become me.

/me gets off the soapbox.

Z before A

[SubtleNuance]

Teach him some morals and higher ideals - show him the ills of the world.

The world needs another MLK or Ghandi a hell of alot more than another Linus or Bill Gates... do us all a favour..

Re:Z before A

[asb]

Teach him some morals and higher ideals - show him the ills of the world.

And see him suffer from ulcer in the age of 12? Let him learn all the ugly stuff when he is ready for it. Children need to play games not worry about the fate of the world.

Re:Z before A

[greenrd]

I disagree, the world needs a few more Eric Drexlers.

Boring?

[Posse Fokker]

he will have his whole life to read boring books on technology

If he wants to read those books it's because he doesn't think they are boring. I read secondary school physics books when I was about 9 years old. Later, in my teens, I spent many good hours teaching physics to the girls.

Don't let the work be destroyed.

[borcharc]

I have seen two many "child prodigies" that have a lack of "good" social skills and when they get to high school or college they resort to drug and alcohol abuse to find acceptance in their group, and escape the pressure of the adults watching over them.

With this you not only run a good chance of ruining you life, but you lose all you have learned in just a few short months. If you don't believe this ask any one who has had chemical problems about their memory of pre-use stages.

I think understanding of scientific basics is important to a intelligent child, but so often these children do not learn good social skills or a understanding or morality. Now I am not saying you should preach to a him but I believe a discussion of current events is the best way. Then you cover communication in non-technical fields and teach him other needed skills.

I can say I did not straighten my life out tell I learned to play by the rules of life and society, not the rules of a programing language that were learned many years earlier. And what do you know I decided to be a street cop instead of a scientist, although I am still a geek.

doesn't matter.

[Lx]

The main thing here is to lay off the kid for a bit, make sure that he develops socially. I've known several of these kids, and they've been universally pretentious, obnoxious, and have had enormous superiority complexes. In some sense I admire kids who are able to pursue things so early (if it's not just their parents pushing them), but I also feel sad for them having lost their childhood, their college life, and any kind of social interaction - the 9-year-olds don't want him, the college students don't want him either.

I'd say, yeah, help him with the technical stuff, but make sure his education is well-rounded, that he learns more cultural and artistic things as well. Make sure he's psychologically well-adjusted - he's not going to have any problems learning what he needs to learn, but he'll have massive problems trying to adjust as he gets older.

-lx

Most of these decisions have already been made

[Mr. Protocol]

Ladies and gentlemen, remember that this poster is a tutor, not a parent. The decisions about how much time to throw a basketball around the court and how much time to spend on studying metaphysics are not in this guy's hands, although he probably has some input.

I suggest the best we can do for him is to answer his damn question. I have my own answers to this, based on a 30-year perspective in the field.

Work on several things at once. Familiarize him with several different operating systems. How many you can do depends on the financial resources of the family. I don't know what those are: it may be all they can do to hire a tutor, or they may be super-rich. Without making good/bad judgements, show him Windows, MacOs, BeOS, and at least two flavors of UNIX, probably Linux and FreeBSD. Make clear the difference between window manager look'n'feel (twm vs. Enlightenment vs. KDE) and the underlying window system, as well as the difference between the window system and the underlying OS, when there is a difference.

For more straight-up academic study, C is the Fortran of today. But also throw in Knuth's volumes on The Art of Computer Programming, and shore up the academic underpinnings where he shows weakness reading Knuth. For academic purposes I'd show him C and Lisp, then, together, Java and Smalltalk (use the Squeak implementation), to give a perspective on OO concepts.

For academic study of operating systems, you couldn't do better than to use the reprinted edition of John Lyons's commentary on UNIX. You can let the kid play with the system covered in those listings by running a PDP-11 simulator and the V6 UNIX that are now available. This eliminates all of the latter-day cruft and exposes the bare bones. This is what you want to study if you want to know how an OS works. Networking is a whole separate thing which you may not want to cover right away. Andy Tanenbaum's book is still probably the best all-round introduction to that.

slashdot rocks!

[segmond]

I am in my early 20's, and I am a dumb very guy. I have decided to enhance myself and upgrade to genius status, by taking all the advice you guys have given, thanks a lot slashdot!!!

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[SmokeSerpent]

It's "usually" the smart kid's fault when he (or she) gets picked on? It was my fault that my high school French teacher couldn't control the class well enough to keep people from blatantly copying my tests, and the kids gave me trouble because I told them not to? It's my FAULT that I think academic dishonesty is inappropriate?! I think this is a good thing.

I thought you said you were smart. Smart kids don't whine, they innovate. If you're real lucky, the teach will say "whoever finishes the test early can just jet on out" then you write all wrong answers, the imbeciles copy them and flee, then you go back and put in the right answers.

If you're unfortunate enough that everyone has to stay anyway, you have to get a little more creative, like leaving the test in plain sight with the wrong answers then hunching over it to correct them or something. A good ploy is to walk up to the teachers desk and then go "oh wait" and change half the answers before turning it in, nobody can just come up and watch what you're changing.

Your number one weapon is essay questions. Encourage your teacher to put as many essay questions as possible on the tests and write really longwinded answers that can't be copied or easily paraphrased by your dopey peers. Then there's the retest... Get a life and join some clubs or something and get excuses to be out of class on test day. If your school has them, take prefirst classes, there's usually a better subset of people in those anyway.

In general, you can use your intelligence to minimize your risks anyway. If you take off your blinders you'll notice that there are one or two kids on the football team that are a cut above the rest when it comes to academics or morals. Befriend these and you may be scorned, but you wont get beaten at least.

I'm homeschooling my daughter, but if she was in school, I would definitely pressure the school board to establish some sort of grade privacy. When I got into college and had to take general ed classes, it was great not to have to play the "smart kid" role since no one knew I was getting an A+ in the class.

My uncle was best friends with a child prodigy

[TheNarrator]

My uncle was best friends with someone who more or less, a child prodigy. They grew up in L.A in the fifties. This guy grew up to be probably one of the smartest businessmen and investors in the country. He is very low profile but has sucessfully turned around many different companies.

When he was growing up he would hang out with my uncle and would go play bridge after school with adults. He was an extremely fast reader, so fast that when he went to a speed reading course they sent him home because he could read faster than anyone who had ever been to the course before. My uncle, who later got a doctorate in economics was always very humble about his intelligence because he had spent his life growing up hanging out with someone who, according to all the people he knew who knew him was the smartest person that they had ever met.

So not all prodigies are scientists or nerds or are pushed extra hard by their parents. I would recommend that if his peer group is too difficult, hanging out with intelligent adults or a few brainy friends of the same age is always a good way to go about learning social skills. He might not end up being interested in science anyway. If he's pushed too hard he will think that the only way to gain acceptance by his parents is to excel in scientific fields where he might not have a deeper interest.

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[barracg8]

might be ;-)

Mods on crack

[brianvan]

I think there's a rogue moderator or two out there that took all of the comments relating to "Take the kid outside to socialize, don't lock him in the library" and modded them down as redundant.

I find that very poor behavior. Most of the comments were, indeed, redundant, but not in the sense that they all needed to be modded down. Now, ALL such comments are below the +5 limit, and if I had mod points I'd put every one of them back up there. I have a feeling someone disagreed with the point being made and did that on purpose.

It's a very good point. I was never considered a child prodigy, per se, but I was regarded as highly gifted and I was given opportunities at many instances in my childhood to advance at the expense of me remaining a normal, happy-go-lucky kid with the rest of my peers. I refused all such opportunities, went on to complete a pretty normal education, and now I'm just as smart as I ever was, except I DO have charisma, charm, and friendliness to sit on top of my masked arrogance and impatience! :-P (just kidding) Frankly, I never found academic pursuits interesting enough to dedicate myself to them like some people would have liked. I have a much broader understanding of life because of that.

Plus, people can actually talk to me. No offense to the Slashdot crowd, but I'm a Comp Sci major about to graduate, and I HATE every one of my peers in my department because they're all arrogant snobbish assholes. They can sit around on Friday night formatting their hard drives and messing around with Linux, but I think they're missing out on life. (Note that my point is that they do that all the time... I've spent Friday nights home on my computer, but I can ALSO go out to a bar and have a good time, which I'd rather do... and they can't do that, they'd be out of place)

My only regret was pointed out in another post... because I never put a consistent effort into school, I find it hard applying my intelligence consistently in anything. I'm technically diagnosed with ADD, but I'm sure that I could have trained myself to focus a lot better early on - had I been treated for having ADD prior to two years ago. Perhaps a missed opportunity, but I think everything happens for a reason, so no big deal.

Mod the hell out of me but I just wanted to say that.

Oh, I think it's funny that almost no one gave answers that the person had in mind, about real subject materials to present to the kid... I think any kid at 9 years old who says he wants to make an operating system is perhaps a little loopy anyway. I mean, I played with Legos as a kid, but I didn't say I wanted to build an office building.

Re:Mods on crack

[Isldeur]

I think this is very insightful. I may have gone into CS but I hated that the people generally have no lives outside computers (so I went into medicine (? in some ways not that much better! :)). But I couldn't stand it that those people also were so anti-social (some of them at least). I remember being at an early Linux meeting at Research Triangle Park and sitting in some restaurant for dinner after a number of days of non-stop linux and hearing them go on even more about it. I was about to go nuts! (So I dragged them out to a frat party at some UNC frat - much better night!)

But be serious. Let this kid get out some and learn about life - in the end that's going to do him (and by extension others) more good than some string theory.

DON'T teach him about arts!

[Posse Fokker]

When I was his age someone thought I should learn about arts. I used my nearly perfect memory at it, and soon it was a perfect pain in the ass to listen to me talking about the differences between Monet and Manet.

Lucky me, I was intelligent enough to realize I should disregard anything anyone told me about how important those "arts" are. I just pretended to be interested, I even learned to play the guitar and saxophone passably, just enough to be able to lay more girls.

If you are intelligent, you'll realize that "social skills" are important for some activities, like sex or making money, but the really important and interesting knowledge is about technology and "hard" sciences.

Re:DON'T teach him about arts!

[Raindeer]

Reading this and other comments you made on this subject, I cannot help but think that you missed the entire point behind social skills. Social skills are not there to be used as tools to get whatever want at a certain moment. Social skills make it possible to share the passions, joys and pains of life. To learn about the most complex system there is, the human bean :-)

What I miss in your comments is the joys that comes with the learning that you do. So you knew the differences between a Monet and a Manet and you played the guitar and the sax. But did you enjoy that? Were you able to tell what all the writers had written about the differences between the one and the other? Or did you know the difference because of the way the one and the other made you feel? Did you nicely follow the notes on the paper, or did you play music? You nicely followed what other people said, but did you understand what they said?

Re:DON'T teach him about arts!

[SilentMuse]

As someone who spent time both professionally in the arts, and professionally in IT, I think I can fairly say that someone who is not introduced to the arts is not getting a complete education. There is much to know and love in the art world, and one of the single biggest things I've found my knowledge of the arts has done for me is increased my appreciation for the technology around me. If you don't get him at least some arts exposure, you're doing him a disservice, regardless of what some uniformed people might think.

If you think that pretending to be interested in the arts is only worthwhile so that you can get laid, then you should put down your saxaphone and dig yourself back into your computer. But don't try to ruin it for someone else who still has a chance to learn something positive...

Re:DON'T teach him about arts!

[0xffffffff]

You are a robot. Die robot, die.

Re:DON'T teach him about arts!

[Posse Fokker]

What I miss in your comments is the joys that comes with the learning that you do.

Different people get "joy" from different things. That's why people who grew up listening to Cole Porter didn't enjoy Jimi Hendrix.

My point is that technology is totally objective and can be effectively taught, while art is personal. You cannot teach people how to enjoy things, or what to enjoy. A case in point is a friend of mine who took his family to a week in Disneyland. When he asked his five year old boy what he had liked most, the answer was "the swimming pool at the hotel".

Stop and think.

[Black Parrot]

> and wants to design an OS (the next Linus Torvalds?)

AFAIK, Linus wasn't a child prodigy. Linux is the result of sharing and hard work, not genius.

But that's cool. Teach him the value of hard work and sharing, too. Lots of bright kids never learn to apply themselves, because everything is too easy along the way.

> I'd like my teaching to steer towards cutting edge technology

Please, steer him through the basics first. In IT, oldies like correctness and maintainability will never go out of style. (Erm, well, they shouldn't have gone out of style.)

In that regard, one field that has been around for a while and can never attract the attention of too many geniuses is the field of correctness proofs. Rather than steering him through all the glitzy overhyped toys on the current scene, steer him through discrete mathematics (along with the other basics), and then see whether you can get him interested in correctness proofs. If someday he designs a language and associated IDE that incorporates correctness as an essential part of the development process, then we will have a software revolution indeed.

Also, don't push him exclusively to CS/IT. Let him see the joys of the other sciences, and of language and literature and music. The world's a big place, and a big mind should suffer as few limitations as possible. Our species could use another Homer or Michaelangelo or Beethoven, just as much as we could use another Einstein or Turing.

--

Frankenstein

[nikal]

Teach him how to think about, and realize the problems knowledge can cause. Let him read books like Frankenstein and history books on the Atomic Bombs so that he realizes what power knowledge really has. Make sure that he realizes that some knowledge is possibly a bad thing. Such as Biological warfare, newer bigger badder bombs, genetically "improved" soldiers, etc. And last but not least, teach him how to be a kid and have fun.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[PsiPsiStar]

Look at it this way;

Some people are interested in subjects that 'normal' people are not interested in.

If someone showed an unusual level of interest in somthing mundane like sports they would not be teased nearly as much in junior high, because people can relate to that. Kids tease those people whom they cannot relate to.

One solution is to simply hide your interest in the subject matter. A better solution is to find people who do care and share your interest with them.

I won't make any claims to being a 'child prodigy' though I'm reasonably bright. I was teased for most of junior high until in High school I took up weight lifting, sports etc. and made acomplishments that those around me could relate to. I think the change in people's attitudes was absolutly laughable. But most importantly, the acceptance of other people for somthing that I considered marginaly significant was not nearly as rewarding as being accpeted for things I did enjoy. Literature, science etc.

If you're bright or have unusual interests, happiness comes from finding others who you can share those interests with. Not in learning to hide what you enjoy. And kids may not always take the best route to this end. The proof of whether someone is trying to dominate others through their intellegence or is simply reaching out for a kindred soul can usually be seen in how they
interact with their intellectual peers.

There are even adults who have entered their 'ivory tower' and are very content not to leave. And some adults still don't know how to relate to these people, and they still get teased. I imagine most of them are happy enough not to care.

NOOO no no no

[criticalrealist]

Do not teach the kid BASIC! That will ruin him for life as a programmer! Teach him a real language first, like Pascal.

Re:NOOO no no no

[rebelcool]

there is absolutely *nothing* wrong with teaching basic as a first programming language. I learned it and its simple methods of teaching logic were invaluable. Good programming sytle can come later, logic is everything.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[BrianH]

I was one of those smart kids that didn't get picked on in high school, and the reasons had nothing to do with humility or grace. I have studied the Te since I was six years old. Three days into my freshman year, some quarterback sized a** noticed how smart I was, and figured that smart=nerd, and that meant I was fair game. He started to pick on me, I told him to f*** off, he decided to teach me a lesson, and I broke three of his ribs and one of his forearms. I had a couple other people who gunned for me afterwards, but I taught them all the same lesson (one is forever blinded in his left eye because of me).

You see, there was only two ways to avoid the bullying when I was in school. You either had to kick everyones asses, or kiss everyones asses. I did the former, because it was the "proper" way to handle things.

Putting political corectness aside for a moment, the exceptionally mentally gifted are superior to the rest of the kids they go to school with. With the proper training and education, one of them could be the person to invent warp fields, cure disease forever, or prove cold fusion. But what is that kid likely to learn when he's forced to hide his intellectual superiority because "it'll make the other kids jealous", or "it's unfair"? Smart kids want to be as socially accepted as any other kid, and if you drive it into them that using their intelligence is what causes people to not like them, they will eventually turn away from their intelligence and stop learning.

The proper way to handle this would be to acknowledge that all kids are NOT created equal, and then modify our educational system so that these kids can really excel.

Cutting edge technology

[Nick.123423]

If you want him to expore cutting edge technology and be exposed to the technology and ideas he will make a differance at, give him supervised access to the Internet and tell him to find what interesting. He will learn vary quickly how to look for topics ont he Internet that intrest him and asked to do so, will find projects that can help mankind.

P.S. I would suggest genetics to him.

Blah

[inKubus]

In order to succeed in life you need to know everything about everything. This kid still has 6 years before he can get a job at Dairy Queen. Who cares about programming? The last thing this world needs is another arrogant prick. People are talking about "pushing" this kid, forcing him to learn stuff because they feel that letting this "potential" go to "waste". Guess what, EVERY kid has that potential. Surely some children learn faster than others, but NANOTECH?! Who cares? The kid is going to be lost when he gets to college and doesn't know how to wash clothes or make a meal for himself. People always forget that there are so many little details to being an adult--too many to count. All I'm saying is that if this kid is a fast learner, give him a breadth-first education. Teach him logic and problem solving, skills he can use in a variety of fields. Math is not nearly as important as good language skills, for things are learned from others, and if the boy can read, he can learn on his own. I'm assuming you were hired by the parents to teach this kid. Why not discuss with his parents what he talks about being interested in, and have some fun. I was tutored in much the same way as a child (for computer stuff, C actually), and it sucked. My only relationship to this guy was he was teaching me C. The computer is a really powerful tool, but that is all it is--A TOOL. The child must be taught that, before he gets sucked into it permanently. There is a beautiful world out there--sunsets, oceans, mountains, grass, trees. I only wish I spent more time outside as a child and not in on the computer. I think I would be a much happier person today.

Re:Blah

[greenrd]

In order to succeed in life you need to know everything about everything.

Uhhhhh.... Do I need to know the precise mass of the Milky Way to succeed in life? I think not.

This kid still has 6 years before he can get a job at Dairy Queen. Who cares about programming?

The kid does, the parents do, the tutor does, and the potential employers do care about getting very gifted students started early. So, I think pretty much everyone involved cares about it. Did you even read the question?

Guess what, EVERY kid has that potential.

What, even mentally retarded children? It's a serious question.

This is just like the far-right-wing bullshit that says everyone has the potential to become independently wealthy (and those who don't are just lazy).

You've gotta admit that a sufficiently huge differrence in intelligence must translate into a difference in potential, given the reality of the world we live in (e.g. we just don't know how to "cure" all forms of "learning difficulties" etc.) So I think you're not just wrong on a technicality, you're very wrong.

And then you've gotta take into account probability. Even if it is "possible" that an "apparently stupid" kid could grow into a whizzkid programmer, you'd probably have better luck with a kid for whom there is some evidence to suggest that they'd do well. Maybe not. But probably.

The computer is a really powerful tool, but that is all it is--A TOOL. The child must be taught that, before he gets sucked into it permanently.

I don't get the meaning of this either. Of course the kid knows it's a tool - and not, say, a deity. What more is there to say? Okay, don't get too addicted - but I don't see how saying "it's only a tool" would help, because even now if you said to me "it's only a tool" I would be bemused as to what you were trying to get at.

"Tutoring," not "raising"...

[baka_boy]

Look, folks, I agree with many of you in saying that a child's physchological, emotional, and social growth is important. I'm not really going to try to convince you all that I know the perfect answers for how to accomplish this, and most of you who don't have children probably shouldn't either.

However, that's not what the poster asked. The original question was, to paraphrase, "I am going to tutor this very gifted child for a limited amount of time, in a limited vartiety of subjects; he's already shown interest in computers and programming, and I would like to encourage that. What subjects and material would best allow me to do that?"

In answer to that question, I have a few suggestions:

• Math, math, and more math. It's the basis of everything that kid will be doing with a computer, and it sounds like he's both young and bright enough to be able to think about it that way. Too many people who learn programming, or even just become computer literate, in later life, or without a full education in the math they're using on a daily basis, never have those wonderful "Eureka!" moments of spontaneously applying something learned from a calculus text to a piece of code, or visa-versa.
• Linguistics, or at least a foreign language. There's nothing more valuable for someone (like a programmer) who's trying to be at the same time creative and precise as to have had the experience of stepping outside the mental wiring you developed for the first few years of your life, (your native language) and think and speak in a wholly different way.
• Music, both classical and modern. Don't shove it down the kid's throat, if he's not interested, but if he likes music, and listens to it anyway, you could "randomly" pick some really great pieces (think Mozart, Miles Davis, Tchaicovsky) to have playing while you're working with him, and if he has questions about it, be full of all kinds of interesting details.
• Finally, some programming. A basic procedural language is, of course, a must. However, if you can, try to steer him towards other language designs at the same time -- Lisp, Haskell, or even Python could be much better vehicles for a young mind's creativity than something where everything has been done, and only remains to be re-implemented.

Yes, I know this is not a complete education. Tutors aren't usually asked to provide one, however; their role is generally to provide extra assistance or encouragement in a few subjects, and let the kid's full-time teachers and parents worry about the rest of their education.

Anyway, good luck, and much good karma (the spiritual, as well as geek kind) for taking time to do one of the most important things humans can do: teach.

what's wrong with this picture?

[Supergrass]

Without having read absolutely every comment about this article (although a large portion of them), I must say I'm shocked at how self-serving 75% of the replies are. Comments such as, "we need more xyz, teach them this!" are incredibly manipulative, and remind me of the treatment of sport or musical prodigies. Doesn't it bother anyone that a large number of replies seem bent on co-opting this kid's life for their own ends?

Personally, I'm in the "give 'em a broad education" camp, for most of the reasons which have already been stated. The only way to discover what one truly loves is to be exposed to a wide variety of things.

Screw all that...

[knewter]

I'm somewhat of a child prodigy myself. I have to take this moment to explain that I'm not tooting my own horn, because I realize that there are many people more intelligent than me. It's just a fact that I've always been about 8 grades smarter than my classmates, and I go to a private school that generally has more intelligent kids attending it than attend the public schools (at least a higher concentration of them).

That's why I feel like I should shut this down: Stop with the notion that you shouldn't push the child. I agree, you shouldn't push any child in a direction that they don't care to go in, and you should let them pursue their interests. However, let them know that they're not likely to find a lot of people as intelligent as them. Let them know that they're special, and nurture that. Don't force them to go play football with you, but encourage them if they feel like it. Overall, try to show yourself rather unbiased. That's only on one side, though.

On the other hand, you have the fact that, as an adult, you're going to know better than the kid in some areas. You can sometimes see a 'cutting edge technology' that the kid might want to pursue as just a fad. Who knows? All in all, get them a good grounding in sciences and literature, and if you come in contact with one early in life (perhaps like the nine year old), teach them to spell (again, assuming English is the language). English has some stupid nuances, and I've met many an intelligent person that has been looked down on by people that can spell simply because they misspell or make a typo. While that doesn't mean that they're less intelligent, it does hurt their credibility. Also, on a last couple of notes, don't try to force the child to appreciate art. It's not a necessary skill in life to be able to appreciate art (I should know, my dad's a hardcore robotics engineer, and if the function or usefulness of something is not readily apparent (say, a piece of art), he looks on it as pointless), but at least give them some things to peruse, show them some paintings (not modernistic crap, but things from the Renaissance Period), let them listen to classical music.

While we're all rather inclined to look at programming as a Holy Grail here on slashdot, we need to realize that the main importance isn't whether they're benefiting the computer culture, but whether they're enjoying themselves. Oh yah, and get them a copy of Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age", because I just recently read it, and I think I'd have looked at things a lot differently if I'd gotten a chance to read that book when I was about 8.

--knewter, throwing in my $2.00 X 10^-2

Re:Screw all that...

[JediDan]

Diamond Age was a good book although an odd one. I wish I had had the opportunity to learn in an environment similar to a "go at your own pace" book.

I was one of these children

[OO7david]

Alright, I'm probably the 400th post, but I don't think this has been said.

I was a prodigy child. I excelled in math, science, and computerse (which I had a strong interest), but I now, I'm a junior in High School, and I have 4 friends to my name. I was never taught any social skills, and barely any of the arts (I've recently dropped c++ for poetry). I turned anti-social and very very quiet. So I walk around scareing everyone; I'm a smart punk (political reasons), that never talks (they just don't know I that I just can't). Everyone thinks I'm psycho.

Now, after that tangent, make sure that he learnes to talk to people and interact. Take him to a busy part of town and describe what he sees without using anything left brained. Ask him how his day was and let him carry the conversation. Or even ask him to tell his parents about something technical, but tell him to see if they loose interest and tell him to change subject if they do (or change what he is saying).

I may be in my 2nd semester of my 4th year of college CS, but I've been struggling for social acceptance since day one.

SICP is on-line: http://sicp.arsdigita.org

[qohen]

Ars Digita University, at present a one-year program for people looking for a serious introduction to computer science and related topics, has Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs on-line here. There are also videos of the lectures from the courses that are being taught, either for streaming or for download as well as problem sets. Check out these URLs (and poke around a bit yourself):

http://aduni.org/academics/classes/
http://aduni.org/catalog/

learning learning by teaching teaching

[10am-bedtime]

if a child delights in learning, the learning of others is often even more delightful. if the teacher teaches teaching, the child learns to apply the teacher's compassion and guidance not only personally, but for posterity. circular investment is also known as enlightened self-interest.

to teach teaching, act as the student and do a lot of learning, yourself. expose your learning paths and delight in sharing wisdom. be a friend, with "parallel aim", but do not shirk from frank discussion of what is evil in yourself and in others. demonstrate understanding of the changing nature of things. question pompous pronouncements such as this one.

To the basics

[xsense]

As someone who started his engineering degree with relatively mediocre skills in math and physics but a strong interrest in advanced technology i must say that the most important things to teach an infant prodigy are the basics of math and science. To fully appreciate and understand any sophisticated branch of technology you must have the basics. Big parts of the basics are relatively boring compared to programming, soldering hardware etc. but the better you are at them the better you are at technology. Furthermore, knowledge in the fundamentals of science is applicable to every branch of engineering, so no matter what the kid decides to specialize in when he grows up he will benefit from his previous studies. It will certainly be intellectually rewarding. And dont say that he already masters the fundamentals, you can spend a lifetime mastering the fundamentals.

I don't see anything answering his question....but

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Here's my attempt. Show him Linux. Show him how C, C++, Java and Assembly (maybe show him assembly first). If he IS a prodigy, he'll run with it and we'll have another programmer working on Open Source. Teach him the VALUE of code and not that people will pay him lots of money for his programs. Teach him to do things right and to release code only when it's time. It's kids like this that can make computers better.

Be sneaky

[SmokeSerpent]

If a kid thinks they don't like sports, assign them a programming assignment to track scores or statistics. Choose a real sport like hockey or soccer, instead of a "stand around and scratch" fest like football (american) or baseball. Though really, a lot of geeky kids can dig baseball because of the obsessive focus on stats in that sport.

If a kid will only read science fiction, give them a genre-crossing book like a Sci-Fi Mystery or something. Somebody needs to write a new set of Danny Dunn-esque books for kids, because a lot of the science in those is out of date, but something along those lines is good for preteen smarties, especially since they hit all different scientific fields. (Why are there 3 different editions of the "Hardy Boys" at the local B&N, but you have to pay $30 online for used "Danny Dunn" books? Someone fix this please! Thank goodness I saved my paperbacks, though they're looking a little sad.) For heaven's sake, don't let them obsessively read each and every Star Trek pulp "novel."

I was once like this kid

[Anonymous Coward]

Whenever I hear of such children, I am always reminded of how I could have been like that. Not always are such child prodigies recognized, nor after recognition are they always permitted to learn at their own pace. I was one of those children.

I taught myself to read sometime around the age of five or six. When I was eight, I was given a Commodore 64 and learned to program. I quickly learned most of the basics of algebra, geometry, physics, and had almost stumbled upon calculus without realizing what it was. Did anyone notice? Somewhat. I was sent off to a class of gifted children once a week where we aimlessly explored nowhere in particular. Nothing really was learned there. I started hearing about these child prodigies who entered college at 13 and I wondered how they could possibly do such things. As time rolled on, I got more and more bored with school because there just wasn't anything new or unlearned there. I took to avoiding homework and acing tests and thus learned a bad habit of not doing homework. I still haven't broken myself of that.

A couple years after high school, I met a friend of a friend who actually was one of these child prodigies. He did, in fact, enter college at 12 or 13 and graduated at 17 or 18. When he described his experiences, I was shocked to realize they were precisely like mine. The only difference is that his parents had the wisdom to get his son the kind of schooling he so desperately craved. I realized that I was indeed a child prodigy: one that nobody cared to notice. I've always been very bitter about my school experiences and my discovery of what I might have been made me even more bitter. Now I wonder how many other children are kid geniuses and ignored or ridiculed because of it? How many others have wasted their childhoods making do with floor sweepings instead of the real stuff?

Re:I was once like this kid

[Chagrin]

I agree with you on the homework part - I think I pretty much stopped doing homework during eight grade, and I really paid the price for it in college.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[perlyking]

Look, I can't resist saying this - but you seem to be exactly the kind of person they should prevent a child prodigy becoming.
I was unpopular at school because I didnt fit in, but at the same time there were people who were intelligent and popular, because they had social skills! You have this arrogant attitude that everyone hates you because you are intelligent, well wake up friend its because your social skills blow.
Now I'm older I notice the difference - I still don't fit in and I know now that its not because I'm better than everyone else its because i'm worse - I'm a social animal with no social skills.....

how to learn

[Phillip2]

I would say teach him how to cook, play a musical instrument, and how to use a library, and other information resources.

The first will enable him to feed himself and others, and to enjoy the experience, rather than regarding it as something to be squashed into a busy life. The second will teach him to work with others and to listen. And the last will teach him how to learn, which is a skill much more important than a programming langauge.

Phil

Re:Math ! (and other languages)

[johnmark]

Add to that exposure to _non_ computer languages (like spoken languages :) He (she?) will soon lose a child's magical ability to pick up foreign languages by effortless mimicry. (and you might have to travel abroad with the child to have the same effect on them. :)

More seriously -- pure math/ bi-lingual ability/ ability to read and write music -- all seem to touch on a common fundamental mental skill.

-

Searching, Writing, Teaching

[Explosive Diarrhea]

Three things to help your prodigy:
1) Teach him how to search.
If he doesn't know what's out there already, he's destined to repeat a lot of work that's already been done. I've seen accounts of this happening with other child geniuses, who rediscovered or reproved theorems that had already been proved. Such wasted effort!
Give him a detailed tutorial on the usage and benefits of Google and Deja... he'll save himself lots of time, and might even learn something new.
2) Teach Him To Write
Think of some of the most admired geniuses today... are they solitary? Do they work in a vacuum? No, they are capable of explaining their ideas to others, and able to convey their discoveries to the common man through writing. Darwin wrote, Einstien wrote.
It's like the tree falling in the forest question... if a genius makes a discovery, and nobody knows about it, then was a discovery really made? Teach him how to explain his discoveries in writing, and not only will there be a record of it, he will make his knowledge accessible to the masses.
3) Teach Him To Teach
I suppose this point is closely related to number (2), but teaching has an extra element -- a social element. Let him know that he will encounter people who know less than him, or are not as intelligent as him. Let him know that his duty is to educate the masses, to pass his genius around. Society will become a better place because of it. Teaching is more a social skill than a technical skill... you must be able to interact with and encourage people in order to teach them.
It's important... imagine what the world would be like if the smart people refused to explaing their theories in easy-to-understand terms. Nobody would know anything!

In short: teach him to search, write, and teach... then he has the potential to be the next great genius!

"Prodigiousness" is irrelevant!

[Riktov]

To the "My God, don't let him become a freak, let him play football!!" camp: He/she's a tutor, not a homeroom teacher, not an academic advisor, not a big brother or mentor. There are plenty of other people (I hope) in the kid's life to take care of socialization. The tutor is there to teach the kid tech stuff, as was deemed beneficial by a parent or teacher.

The kid almost has an AA degree. All right then, find out what sort of curricula are taught to 20-year-old community college students, and just use that, and pretend he's a 20-year old. Maybe in a year he'll be at a Ph.D. level, then use a Ph.D level curriculum, and pretend he's 25.

It seems to me the "special needs" of "gifted children" are due to the disparity between socialization and intellectual ability. As long as each of these are hanlded at an age-appropriate level, shouldn't things work out more or less?

Where did YOU learn Latin?

[FatSean]

quite badly formed ignoring your inclusion of a non classical noun. Better re-check your near perfect memory

Re:Where did YOU learn Latin?

[jmp100]

It's a joke, man. Posse Fokker. Pussy Fucker. Get it?

Re:Where did YOU learn Latin?

[FatSean]

doh!

Try this mental experiment

[Supercoz]

I agree with Reality Master 100%.

Try this. Imagine trying to have a relationship with someone who considers themself fundamentally better than you. These are some of the most irritating people around.

The reason I had social problems in middle and high school was that I simply felt I was superior to all the "drooling idiots" there. It's true I was vastly more intelligent that essentially all of them, but they had many skills I didn't: how to talk to girls, or more studying discipline, or maybe they were better with cars. The point is, given Person A and Person B, one can always find one thing that A is better than B at, and one thing that B is better than A at.

-Coz

O'Reilly

[sklib]

Just take him to your local book store (Borders, B&N, whatever) and plant him in the O'Reilly section, and leave him there for a couple of days. That'll be all he ever needs to know ;D Overall, though, I'd get him on the higher level programming languages like java, and stay away from assembly. Unless he wants to make video cards and then write drivers for them, which case...

Homeschool?

[bokane]

As a child of greater-than-average intelligence, I have to say that I deeply hated every moment of school. I made some good friends, and had fun with them, but, as a high school senior, I'm looking back on the last twelve years, and I can't help but feel that they were mostly wasted.

By contrast, my younger brother, who's also smarter-than-average, is being homeschooled. He's studying algebra, Greek, Latin, and Italian. Try finding any public school that'll offer that.

"Gifted" schools aren't any good either - take it from me; I go to one. Most magnet schools aren't much more than SAT-mills. My advice would be to let the kid study what makes him happy (while of course making sure that he's got some grounding in the liberal arts), and for God's sake, don't send him to any place that claims to be for kids like him.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[fable2112]

Um, this was ten years ago, first thing.

Ninth grade. Forty-minute class periods. Multiple-choice and short answer tests given by a teacher who really didn't care if we learned the subject properly beyond the minimum needed to pass the Regents exam at the end of our third year. Assigned seats by alphabetical order. Kids getting OUT of their seats to copy me. I asked if I could sit somewhere else and was told no.

This was the same classroom where one of the boys hit another one over the head with a chair, which resulted in a visible lump on the head of the one who got hit. Incidentally, the kid who swung the chair was one of the ones who was copying my tests. I was a lot smaller than him.

"You should get creative?" No, I shouldn't have had to deal with this sort of hostile environment to begin with. I have better things to be creative about.

Re:Rule of exceptions, Natural Law.

[Woundweavr]

Thank you Descartes.

However, you can only say that yourself exists (I think therefore I am). Everything could be a figment of your imagination or part of some deception. However, even yourself could in theory be a simulation. If all you are is an emulation of a person in some computer, do you exist? More convincing arguments can also be made, such as existance based on free will, etc. Even existance can be questioned, and thus can't be said to be a complete law. Its nitpicky but...

Kill him!!

[signingis]

Strangle this kid in his sleep. He's going to create the a new devastating weapon system and destroy all of mankind.



Catch me on AIM: SigningiS

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget to teach the kid to go out and have fun. And make sure you include things like periodic 5-minute keyboard breaks, eye exercises, in fact physical exercise every day. Else you'll wind up creating a genius with carpal tunnel syndrome, diabetes and myopia who will drop dead at 35 from failure.

In other words, don't forget the balance. Nothing wrong with being a geek, just try to forge a healthy geek who stands as much chance of getting laid as winning the ACM programming competition.

A thought...

[lill_mikke]

I must say that I agree with some of the others, that you hsould teach him/her about life. And not to "kill" his/her childhood. But the thing is that this child probably already has a different childhood acording to what is "normal". But what is needed is not a "normal" childhood. What is important is that he/she enjoys her self and has fun. That is important.... not baseball. And what to teach? well... everything! Don't specialize. let him/her take care of that. But don't leave anything out. Tell the whole story. Mankind hasen't only done good things. Even if they are important enough it is even more impotant to know that mankind are capable of mistakes.

Having helped raise more than my fair share...

[freeBill]

...of exceptionally bright kids (no, I'm not bragging on my genes, they were others' biological children), I have a few insights to offer.

First of all, there is some risk of burnout. Don't concentrate too much on beating academic milestones. This is apparently where this kid excels, but grades and proficiencies may be an inappropriate set of milestones. They can give a combination of a false sense of success and invincibility and a learning style fairly inappropriate to the real world. (I've never had an employer who paid me to take tests. But the daily work I looked down upon as a student was a much better preparation for real life than any test I ever studied for.)

One of the most difficult things for the talented to learn is how to try hard. It's one of the most important lessons around, but the gifted (in sports, intellect, whatever) often have difficulty learning it.

Just think of Ralph Sampson and Slick Watts (sorry about the sports analogies). Sampson was born with a body and coordination which gave him extraordinary opportunities. Slick Watts had the wrong body for basketball, under six foot and then he got some rare disease at 13 and lost all his hair.

But Watts learned something Sampson never did: how to try harder than everyone else he ever met. It's not that the talented cannot learn it (Bill Russell and Michael Jordan spring immediately to mind). It's just a little harder for them.

How should this translate into "tutoring a prodigy"? Many ways: throwing that football around might help, if he's interested; but the key is taking his interests to the nth degree.

Suppose he's asking questions about assembler. Show him how Alan Turing conceived of a programmable computer from mathematical concepts put forward by Goedel. Show him how machine-language derived from the precepts of Principia Mathematica and David Hilbert's famous problems for the 20th century. (If he likes fiction, The Crytonomicon is a good introduction to how Turing conceived of computers long before the technology to build them existed.) Tell him why compiler theory is emphasized in CS programs, despite the fact that so few of us end up designing compilers. Show him how Turing invented computability theory before there were computers or even transistors or microchips. Show him a simple problem he can understand which is NP-complete.

Suppose he's interested in JAVA. Get him started with some good tutorials. Then tell him what object-oriented programming is. Show him the UML. Explain why somebody would want to invent a whole new way of thinking about programming (procedures versus objects). Ask him what thinks might come after OO. Then point out that some languages have a static view of object-oriented-ness, while others are built to change if the theory changes. Ask him if he wants to accept somebody else's paradigm (Bill Joy is a good choice if you want to copy) or if he wants to define the new paradigm. Then tell him to type "aspect-oriented programming" (including the quotes) into Google. Show him Ruby. Ask him to make up a new paradigm just for fun. Then help him try to implement it in Perl (which has a dynamic OO model which forces you to redefine what you mean by "object-oriented" every time you write a program).

Suppose he's interested in physics. Have him read Aristotle's "Physics" and Newton's Principia,. Then give him Feynmann and Einstein. When he thinks that's too easy, show him Aristotle's "Metaphysics." Tell him who the Vienna Circle was and how they sought to complete science. Then give him Ludwig Wittgenstein's Tractatus. When he decides that's the cat's meow, show him how Wittgenstein renounced all that in Philosophical Investigations.

Suppose he's interested in AI. There's plenty of material on the current state of the art which tries to make it easy to understand for the beginner. Show him the Santa Fe Institute's web site (www.SantaFe.edu). Get the NOVA video on chaos theory. Then tell him not all chaos theorists are fully accepted by most scientists. Get him Complexity: The Emerging Science on the Edge of Chaos and Dynamic Memory. Teach him neural nets, then point out how it failed to live up to its promise. Ask him if he thinks that's an inherent limit of the theory or that it's caused by an inadequately developed idea. Then show him genetic programming. Then take him back to Descartes and show him the mind-body problem.

Suppose he's interested in games. Teach him to program them. There are plenty of open-source game-design projects (my web site is www.FaerieMUD.org) where he can find any level of challenge in any kind of game he likes.

Suppose he's interested in the election or social problems or whatever....

It doesn't matter. Whatever the interest, show him that he can take it to some limit which will probably exceed his grasp. Let him fail, even if you have to show him problems which have baffled mankind for millennia.

There are two keys: start with his interests and take it to his limits. Then bring him back and show him that by trying very hard he can make real progress in places where he will make a difference.

Good luck, to you and to him.

Scheme

[chris.bitmead]

Do what MIT would do. Get him the book "Structured interpretation of computer
software languages" and teach him Scheme. It will allow him to learn about different paradigms - OO, functional, imperitive, rules based programming.

Education and Learning

[BBrown]

Mark Twain once said,
"I never let schooling interfere with my education."

You figure it out.

avoid the simple procedural stuff

[shortcharles]

physics / math / "music" are the easiest subjects for a child prodigy to learn. A dated OS like linux would be a complete waste of time, and would probably hinder him from ever contributing anything creative to society. -Object oriented, distributed, and multi-agent programming are reasonable fields to explore. but don't get cought in silly simple procedural details. "Chaos theory" , "Complexity theory",' "non - linear dynamics" are where the real boundaries are most scientific advance, like quantum computing, AI, genomics, and fusion energy. The rest is basics.

Too early I think, but if you are serious

[marcovje]

I wouldn't push the kid too far. I myself was also an assembler programmer at the time, and do some open source work and other programming now, but I might well have given up in puberty as well.

Don't let him waste too many years, or push him too easy in a direction he might see in a different perspective in a few years.

But the answer:

• Standard programming. Let him program small games in standard languages (Pascal(Delphi or one of the free ones, TP is too old) , Basic (not necessarily VB), C, C++). Thinks like Tetris, Seawars, Columns, Chainreaction, whatever.
• For the OS part, let take Tanenbaum's book about Minix. Study small OSes, or flat-real experiments
• Don't throw him in pure (protected mode, OS kernel related) assembler yet. Let him optimize some of his HLL code by searching the limiting procedures, and rewriting them in assembler first. Knowing what to do in assembler, and the idea you get how HLL's work by reviewing their disassembled output is more important than trying to write a new OS in assembler.
• Let him create a simple shell program in DOS. A mini-bash, a mini GUI, a mini textwindowing interface. Good for lowlevel and for code reuse, parsing input
• Expression parser/ mini scripting engine.
• I'm no CS starters teacher, some people are, why don't you check their material.
• In general, forget about the busswords of the moment, since when he is getting good, they will have changed (think XML, Java, .NET, maybe even Perl. Personally I think XML and Perl are here to stay, but if he knows real languages, he can deal easily with those too

Just remember.

[mfh]

Technology is supposed to improve life, not the other way around.


- Mike Hughes

Math

[HarpMan]

Teach him mathematics. This will give him the logical foundation to do whatever he wants. Whatever 'cutting edge' stuff you attempt to teach him today will not be so cutting edge 15 years from now; but the math will alwasy be useful.

You might also consider teaching him some music.

Wait till the kid sees these comments..

[jerrr]

And given that he's a genius he probably will... The teacher should try to keep him from seeing these.

Humanities

[Kyobu]

I'm not a prodigy at all, but I'm, if I say so myself, pretty smart. I'm a senior in high school, with a 1560 SAT and eight APs, on which I've gotten six 5s and two 4s (the first AP I took was in eighth grade). I say this not to brag, but to give myself a little respectability. Clearly, I'm not in a league with this 9-year-old, but at least I have some knowledge of what it's like to grow up smart.

Anyway, aside from the valid points of many others about proper socialization and the value of just being a normal kid sometimes, I want to recommend the a solid respect for the humanities. When I was younger, I wanted to be a physicist, because I thought it was cool. However, I have always read large numbers of books, and not denied the value of things other than science. After a charismatic eighth-grade history teacher, I decided I actually was interested in history and politics. I have not let this get in the way of being nerdy by any means: I run Linux, I just finished an upper-division math course at UCLA with an A-, and I have a web design business. However, I have not let myself be narrow. As C.P. Snow pointed out in The Third Culture, it's perfectly possible to be interested in both science and music, or math and literature, and in fact it is unhealthy for scientists to sneer at the humanities, or vice versa. It seems that the questioner is concentrating on feeding the prodigy's desire for technical sophistication, which is perfectly good, but I urge him to instill a respect and love for art, history, language, literature and music along with differential equations and flow charts. These other areas shouldn't be formal and stuffy, though. I would expose the kid to everything and let him explore for himself, too.

getting a prodigy to be a social whiz is hard...

[sean23007]

I was, actually currently am, a child prodigy. I'm 15 years old, and I have an extraordinarily high IQ. At an early age, I learned to research on my own, and I became fluent in Spanish and Latin, and I learned BASIC like a lot of other people, but I was a little behind, and by the time I was 7 I also became quite familiar with c++, and I knew html almost immediately when it became available to me.

Not only that, I also got involved in many sports, and got pretty darn good at them as well, and I pride myself on being exceptional at football, baseball, basketball, and boxing, and being all right at hockey, soccer, volleyball, and swimming. I have always taken a huge interest in keeping my body as well as my mind in perfect condition.

Anyway, the point of all this is that it is harder than you guys are making out to get a child prodigy to be good socially. I have a lot of friends, geeks, jocks, girls, and the 'cool' crowd as well, but basically, they all seem to respect me on some level but resent me on another, because I am better than everyone at everything. Frankly, it is not fun. Tell your child prodigy that he/she should find a group of people that he likes and who respects him.


And tell the kid that having a great body works wonders all the time! Work out, for god's sake.

Let the kid learn about the human society

[LittleStone]

I know it sounds like redundant, but many smart /. readers tend to argue either to teach the kid communication or let the kid excel and forget about anything else.

You know what, if the kid is really gifted, teach her/him the complexity of human society. Any soul who turned from natural sciences / engineering to social sciences would agree that studying human behaviour and society scientifically is much more difficult. So let the kid learn about human, and the kid can excel and learn what's important to live well in our society.

Things will get wrong when you guide them to the way that we thought we understand but actually we don't really understand.

Re:Yeah, throw rare talent into the trash can.

[iturbide]

Which explains how he got laid, and you sound bitter.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Genjuro Kibagami]

I've got to agree with Brian, I went to school with a bunch of people, who basically fit neatly into two categories, athletic and stupid, or intelligent and extremely weak.

Of all the intelligent children in the entire school I was the only one who was not constantly attacked physically or even taunted, purely because I made a habit of responding with extremely vicious violence (I've noticed smarter kids seem to pick up martial arts a hell of a lot faster than their more idiotic counterparts) in any given situation in which anyone tried to show off by bossing 'round the smart kid.

It's quite possible I don't have any social skills at all to speak of, I don't need to talk to anyone in my job, I respect only a single other person that I actually know (Although I really do like what has been created by members of the Open source movement, I don't know any of these people personally so do not feel fit to judge them in any way aside from their works) and pretty much flat out ignore everyone else, this results in me pretty much being asexual, but that doesn't particularily disturb me. I get what I want when I want it.

I think it's sad that arrogance is seen as a negative trait, arrogance merely sculpts a person into an alternative form, there's no positive nor negative aspect to it, Personally I like being this way because it keeps other people away from me, and I generally don't like other people, so everyone is happy. It's not as if people who are arrogant are necessarily interfering with the activities of any other person (Which I would never do, I don't like to intrude on other people and I expect the same back)

Avoid the UNIX rut!

[jcr]

If the kid wants to write an OS, make sure you expose him to something besides UNIX.

Check out EROS at www.eros-os.org.

-jcr

Let the child steer his own education

[Trilaka]

The only advice I would give on this subject, is let the child steer the course of his own education. If he wants to learn about Java and Assembly, teach him every thing that you know, and point him towards other resources so that he can even learn some stuff that you don't know. Never try to force him to learn something that he isn't interested in. Chances are, sooner or later, he will realize a connection on his own, and have a genuine desire to study anything that you would want to 'steer' him towards. You cannot control the educational process. All you can do is to give him resources, and help him make connections to other areas. For instance, if his curiosity is pointing him towards Java, drop some information about the history of the language, or OOP in general, or the effect that Java has had on Sun's business, or anything else that you can think of that is even remotely connected. If he shows interest, help him find more information. If he doesn't show interest, DO NOT force it on him.

A child's natural hunger for learning is a far better motivator for his growing intellect than any tutor could ever be. Help him read between the lines of raw information, but do not try to choose for him what information he should learn. Do not look at the child as some sort of tool to be used ("Man, if I teach this kid about nanotechnology now, imagine what he could do to the field in 15 years!"), but as a person with a gift. And a great part of that gift is curiosity. The drive to learn is, I would argue, even more important than a raw capacity to retain knowledge. The best things you can teach this child are ways to search out the information he is looking for on his own, and to teach him more abstract things that are difficult to learn from books. Teach him how to see problems and situations from many angles, and teach him to see the connections between different fields of study. Feed his curiosity by showing him things that he doesn't yet have the broad knowledge base to see on his own, but never try to force his direction.

Give him Godel, Escher, Bach

[ralian]

Seriously.
It may be the most intellectually stimulating book I've ever read. The dozens of little puzzles mixed with the mathematical logic discussions and the entertaining stories make it an incredibly enlightening read.

You are absolutely right!

[gregorio_jps]

We MUST NOT forget about the fact that kids have social life too. I mean, school can be the MOST TERRIFYING experience of a person's life. Those kids will be MESSED UP grown ups.

If the kid is smart, ok, whatever... Not forcing your child into advanced stuff, doesn't mean he will be a stupid grown up. It'll be a SMART grown up, with the same capabilities of the regluar prodigy grown up, but YOUR child, will have SOCIAL SKILLS.

Re:You are absolutely right!

[spiro_killglance]

I agree with not forcing the kid beyond his desire to learn. But give him as intellectal simulation, and the choice to learn what ever he wants.
And what is this BS aboat teaching a kid advanced stuff destroying his social skill. That is utter sterotyped crap. Their are millions of uneducation and stupid people without social skills as well. Bad social skill can come from many causes, but too much knowledge isn't one of them.

Child prodigies, post-Sputnik

[skbenolkin]

It's mildly troubling to me that every intellectual wunderkind I've ever heard about has been directed (naturally or otherwise) toward some kind of mathematical or scientific pursuit. Both for variety's sake and for humanity's, wouldn't it be nice to see a brilliant young social scientist or philosopher? Paging J. S. Mill . . .

2 Non-Tech Suggestions

[Omerna]

1) Tell him to read Ender's Game (if he hasn't all ready). If he's a genius he'll probably relate and love it. 2) Make sure he knows how to work. So far he probably hasn't had any trouble doing anything he's put his mind on.. Sooner or later he'll want to do something and not get it right away.

Brings back memories......

[balzack]

First of all, I would like to say that I felt this so important that I had to sign up to post a reply. Secondly, I will disclaim that I know nothing I will say can change anything. Sorry for the long post, I figure I would attempt to offer an opinion of somebody that can sympathize. Bravo for being the person that I always needed. Do you fully realize how much in a developmental phase he is right now? His personality has just developed a dominant trait. I would assume that this trait is a perceiving intuitive (I'm referring to Myers Briggs Type Indicator). One big mistake so far, is that you might be hindering him. Why did you post a question to Slashdot? Why are you trying so hard to find out information FOR him? You know what you should do, is have him read all of these posts. The thing you really should have had him do was post to this list himself. Why don't you try and get him talking to different people over the Internet? To a great extent this is dangerous considering his mental condition. Disappointments and putdowns are really going to crush this kid. It might in fact turn him on society. He needs love, and he needs pain as well. This is gained through social intelligence. There are thousands of factors that I can't delve into just because I don't know this person. I wish I could be in your shoes, and there is a reason. I think that this boy needs a mentor. I don't know how intelligent you are, but you can offer many things like: Understanding, caring, and other emotions. If you are spending this much time with this child you, or somebody must be his mentor. Something that you need to do is really buy him into the concept of finding out who he is and how he works. Give him this challenge: Give him a thousand pieces of paper and a hundred pencils, and try this "Write down who you are". Using philosophy, psychology, and sociology give him some social intelligence. Bring him (only if he wants) to as many different groups and make a game out of meeting many new people. If you show him how fun it is to be around people, he will easily follow you to many groups were he will find it a fun game to 'figure out' people and he will learn a lot from seeing the differences in people. What he will find out is that you are not the end-all resource. What you need to do is have him figure out how to find information. Show him the library, show him universities, and show him how to find things on the Internet. Connect him as much possible with the people he wants to talk to. He most likely loves challenges, so challenge him to do other things. How about showing him how to lose? Make him realize that he is not great at everything. It is a sad day when he figures out somebody is smarter than him. Or when there is some big stupid jock that gets the woman he likes. I hope he has a good father and mother. Is he a devil's advocate? He might become one, the fact that he might pull apart ideas and find out that much of the world is 'logical'. Many of the things that anybody learns through are my favorite ivy league school of 'hard knocks'. I am glad you are giving him special attention, because he needs it, in moderation. Also allow him to find out constructive ways to fill in the extra time he has. I found that the extra time I had between the thirty seconds it took me to finish my work and the half an hour everybody else took was spent being the class clown and talking. I am glad I did this because it made me a social butterfly (even though I was always in trouble). I always laugh when I think of gifted and talented teachers because they always seem to be clueless. They at one point figured I liked computers and was smart they would take me out of class. Then put me in a room all by myself and give me programs on the computer to work through. Yeah I learned BASIC and calculus when I was eight years old, BUT I WAS BORED AS HELL!!!!! I found out that being smart was boring, and I started drawing to fill up my time, and reading fifty books a day. Luckily since I fell through the cracks to some extent I wasted a lot of my potential. I found out that if I never studied I would be normal, and get normal grades, and most of my schooling career has gone past because I didn't develop my memory. So, boo hoo for me, but it is just the point to watch out. I had that same sparkle in my eyes to want to learn. It ended up getting smothered, and now I'm just another genius lazy bastard that never met up to his potential J Hey, if he wants a challenge or two I hope he posts to the list! Or he can feel free to e-mail Josh.Steadman@uaf.edu . I just hope that something here in any of these posts ended up making an impact. I'm always happy to give direction to youngsters!

Re:Brings back memories...(POT repost)

[balzack]

I hope this has paragraphing....

First of all, I would like to say that I felt this so important that I had to sign up to post a reply. Secondly, I will disclaim that I know nothing I will say can change anything. Sorry for the long post, I figure I would attempt to offer an opinion of somebody that can sympathize.

Bravo for being the person that I always needed. Do you fully realize how much in a developmental phase he is right now? His personality has just developed a dominant trait. I would assume that this trait is a perceiving intuitive (I'm referring to Myers Briggs Type Indicator).

One big mistake so far, is that you might be hindering him. Why did you post a question to Slashdot? Why are you trying so hard to find out information FOR him? You know what you should do, is have him read all of these posts. The thing you really should have had him do was post to this list himself. Why don't you try and get him talking to different people over the Internet? To a great extent this is dangerous considering his mental condition. Disappointments and putdowns are really going to crush this kid. It might in fact turn him on society. He needs love, and he needs pain as well. This is gained through social intelligence.

There are thousands of factors that I can't delve into just because I don't know this person. I wish I could be in your shoes, and there is a reason. I think that this boy needs a mentor. I don't know how intelligent you are, but you can offer many things like: Understanding, caring, and other emotions. If you are spending this much time with this child you, or somebody must be his mentor. Something that you need to do is really buy him into the concept of finding out who he is and how he works. Give him this challenge: Give him a thousand pieces of paper and a hundred pencils, and try this "Write down who you are".

Using philosophy, psychology, and sociology give him some social intelligence. Bring him (only if he wants) to as many different groups and make a game out of meeting many new people. If you show him how fun it is to be around people, he will easily follow you to many groups were he will find it a fun game to 'figure out' people and he will learn a lot from seeing the differences in people.

What he will find out is that you are not the end-all resource. What you need to do is have him figure out how to find information. Show him the library, show him universities, and show him how to find things on the Internet. Connect him as much possible with the people he wants to talk to. He most likely loves challenges, so challenge him to do other things. How about showing him how to lose? Make him realize that he is not great at everything. It is a sad day when he figures out somebody is smarter than him. Or when there is some big stupid jock that gets the woman he likes.

I hope he has a good father and mother. Is he a devil's advocate? He might become one, the fact that he might pull apart ideas and find out that much of the world is 'logical'. Many of the things that anybody learns through are my favorite ivy league school of 'hard knocks'. I am glad you are giving him special attention, because he needs it, in moderation.

Also allow him to find out constructive ways to fill in the extra time he has. I found that the extra time I had between the thirty seconds it took me to finish my work and the half an hour everybody else took was spent being the class clown and talking. I am glad I did this because it made me a social butterfly (even though I was always in trouble). I always laugh when I think of gifted and talented teachers because they always seem to be clueless. They at one point figured I liked computers and was smart they would take me out of class. Then put me in a room all by myself and give me programs on the computer to work through. Yeah I learned BASIC and calculus when I was eight years old, BUT I WAS BORED AS HELL!!!!! I found out that being smart was boring, and I started drawing to fill up my time, and reading fifty books a day. Luckily since I fell through the cracks to some extent I wasted a lot of my potential. I found out that if I never studied I would be normal, and get normal grades, and most of my schooling career has gone past because I didn't develop my memory.

So, boo hoo for me, but it is just the point to watch out. I had that same sparkle in my eyes to want to learn. It ended up getting smothered, and now I'm just another genius lazy bastard that never met up to his potential J

Hey, if he wants a challenge or two I hope he posts to the list! Or he can feel free to e-mail Josh.Steadman@uaf.edu .

I just hope that something here in any of these posts ended up making an impact. I'm always happy to give direction to youngsters!

from what i remember

[twoAM]

i remember having a really hard time relating to kids my age when i was a kid. honestly i think i spent most of my pre-rpg time (before the age of 9) in my room by myself playing with legos. at that time i prefered to listen to adults talk about adult conversations. I remember very clearly being about 8 and being at a church potluck with my dad and listening, fascinated, to a group of adults talking about the punk movement in london (it was 1982). they werent real knowledgable or anything. but they listened to each other, they talked about teenagers in general, and they had concern. that was important to me at the time, these people cared about what they were talking about. it took me a long time and a lot of pain before i developed "social skills". largely because i had such little generalized social interaction as a kid. but i dont think there was anything that anyone could have done about it at the time. and i dont regret it at all. it made me who i am today, and im happy with that. so far in this thread i've seen people mention exposing the kid to arts and humanities, sports, and playing with other kids of the same age... I think those are all good suggestions. (although my dad tried to get me to play sports as a kid and i enjoyed playing them with him, but i still sucked at them and i was still the last kid to get choosen when captains choose teams). but i'd like to suggest political conversations, current events, and chess and good things for smart 9 year olds. i'd also like to stress that growing up as a kid, there was no good information about sex and sexuality. most of what i learned until I was about 16 was from fantasy novels like piers anthony. and thats just not good information. i believed stuff like that girls usually made the first move, boys liked sex more than girls, good girls weren't interested in sex etc... i dont understand why we think we should hide sex from children, and i think smart kids are particularly ready to learn about sex.

Re:from what i remember

[ClumzyKid]

Well to be quite honest, I wasn't much different than yourself... I got myself interested at watching (observing and listening to) adults at a young age... I can even remember my first knowledge of computers at the age of 4 (1982)... weird? is it really? not to me it wasn't. As I was born with acute asthma... I had to spend time at home... so I developed a hobby of sorts... reading newspapers (that was when I was learning how to read)... it did help my English in a way... (I'm from the Middle East by the way)... and my knowledge... I even started to explore my understanding of the world by the age of 8.. through art... and that became a hobby when I was 12.

What I'm trying to say is that... No one forced me to this... I was left alone... to explore... no one knew my interests... no one encouraged, to be even more honest... and that was what I enjoyed the most... I encouraged myself. So this child has been discovered to be a child prodigy... encouragement is to continue to explore is good... only if you don't recieve negative feed back... otherwise back off... and when asked to help do so (no... I don't mean become a slave)... but within limits... they're human too...

Taking the example of sex... I can't agree more... my first knowledge of sex... more like I became more aware of it and understood it... at the age of 6... my cousin was baby sitting me and I went into his room and turned the tape player on... oops. I became more understanding in that field... but it did not turn me to a raving rapist... Neither am I a timid creature... lol... I'm a flirt... and I have come to appreciate what I have learnt... and neither am I affraid of exploring other fields of life... and usually I confer what I have experienced with others... into quite a philosophical conversation... mind you, I'm a Computer Science student... I like to explore... so most of you out there... start thinking twice about how you approach your child... there's a lot that you may not know about them... at least what they're thinkin'.

Is she single?

[leereyno]

I'm just kidding of course. Well actually I'm not but I don't expect a real answer and for all I know she's old enough to be my mom.

Lee Reynolds

Re:Is she single?

[StandardDeviant]

No, and she's in her late fifties, early 60s I think. ;-) So if you're <= 40 or so, she probably is.

--

Let it be...

[ClumzyKid]

Oh let it be... Child prodigy is quite interesting and it's something worth to explore... one thing for sure is that your final conclusion is that the child... once a man... has exactly same tactical thinking as yours... I've come across child prodigy at my former school... they are really curious children - aren't they?... some do take a down turn... just encourage and don't worry about the rest.

As for what's a good read... you have to see what books he can comprehend (don't give a puzzled look) see what kind of books he always refers to.. it's usually the only way to know how much complexity of (hardware, to software) reading he's ready to accept... if your surprised at my comment - don't be... they're human too... the idea is that to go at their pace... so once you find out what book he refers to when he does any work on a 'puter (most of the time)... it's likely the book that he has gotten accustomed to. And that's the type of books you should go after... Sorry I can't tell you which is the best book... information wise... nowadays most 'puter books are good, and specialised... it's usually upto the person... to choose a good book...

Take the child to the store... let him flip through the books and choose...

Expose her to Counter-influences!!!

[wrinkledshirt]

Whenever I see a so-called prodigy, I feel really badly for her. (Since this is all hypothetical, I'm gonna use a gender switch just for fun.)

No doubt this kid has probably been coddled and exposed to a whole lot of attention from approving adults about how she can do this thing or that thing better/quicker/more intuitively than most other people. All that specific exposure to people is probably going to lead her to an unbalanced world view on methods of seeking/gaining approval, and she might have a bunch of messed up priorities which involve her having a very narrow view of what constitutes self-worth.

Give this kid alone time. Let her constantly feel reintroduced to the world each time she meets someone new. Give her different pillars of literature and philosophy to bounce off. Expose her to mentors, a bunch of them. Have her pick up a sport or hobby that doesn't cater to left-brained ability. Let her hone her extrapolation skills on things that she hasn't been exposed to yet. Make her sit in on argumentative discussions and don't let her say a word, so that she can observe things objectively. Let her construct her own ego. No doubt she's had too much help in that department already.

Make sure she has a chance and the choice to live outside the traditional prodigy mold, so that in all this thinking she's probably doing she gets a chance to learn to think for herself.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[MSHNR]

The funniest thing about the athletic ones is that sometimes they will mess with a kid that is actually bigger than they are and think that the kid isn't going to respond violently! You should see them run like hell! It's also really cool when the kid latches ahold of their throat and proceeds to throttle the bastards! Yes, I'm talking about myself when I was in elementary school.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Genjuro Kibagami]

Indeed, it's like they think because we're intelligent we mustn't have a shred of agressive instinct in us... Oh well, their broken bones, not ours...

Broaden his mind

[Algonquin]

Fom what I gather, this child now has a very strong foundation in CompSci/EE, and is damn good at it. But let's face it, that changes by the year. What's hot to teach today might be nothing tomorrow - so don't try and predict the future. As opposed to teaching him more of what he knows, broaden his mind.

Get him interested in Classical Music. Teach him a foreign language. If he's a bright as he seems, teach him three of them. Have him study world history. Get him reading English classics and debating them with University students. This kid dosne't need more CompSci for now; keep going at it a bit, but give him other ways to stimulate his mind. That way you end up with somone who thinks wildly, as opposed to one who thinks linerally.

Anywhere I said 'him' or'he' can easily be translated to the other gender - it's just how I write.

hmm

[zogmeister4321]

hi,

just my thoughts on the subject. i'm 15, and whilst i am in no way a prodigy or genius, i've been programming from a quite early age.

all i can suggest is that firstly you don't force the kid to learn. if they want to, they will. if they don't want to, they won't. by all means encourage, but don't force. give praise where it's due, but above all don't make him/her think that they're "better" than other people. that kind of attitude is one that you should try your upmost to discourage - he or she is no "better" than anyone else, and if they remember that it'll help; a little humility and modesty goes a long way.

a lot of people have suggested sports... that's fine, but again some kids get into sport and some don't. forcing him/her to play team sports can do as much damage as forcing him to learn assembly language. on the other hand maths is a great idea, as it'll help him/her with any programming he ever tries. teach a kid Java now and it's perfectly possible they will never use it. teach maths and it'll give them the foundation to do whatever he/she wants.

Remember...

[FrostedChaos]

I know my voice is just one among many, but remember:

1. The kid needs to have friends who share his interests and level of intelligence. Make sure he does!

2. Pure science is a more rewarding field for a child prodigy than electrical engineering.

philosophy....ethics...linguistics...horticulture

[thanjee]

Whilst teaching the child IT, I would also be very anxious that s/he learn philosophy, cognition etc. Things that will generally expand the their thought process allowing them to analyse problems from a number of different and maybe new aspects. It would be wrong to try and focus their attention to one area at an early age. Like someone else said - you may discover that whilst being really good with some science stuff s/he may in fact be even better with literature. Maybe linguistics. Who knows. Only the child will know, and only in time after exposure to a large range of mediums.

Child Prodigy = Wuss Adult

[neema]

Alright, as a small kid (I'm still pretty small, 15) I had a pretty high IQ. I did extremely well in my classes and in first grade they suggested I be moved to 5th grade, due to the fact that I was doing work at that level.

My mom was loving the idea, but my father hated it. He thought that, especially in public schools, it's important to stay with kids your age. Even if you are smarter then the other kids, it's good to deal with people your age, as at one point of time, your peers will decide your fate. I'm really glad he decided that. No matter how smart you are, if you get all arrogant because your with kids much older then you, you get two things:

no friends your age

no friends in the grade your in

basically, no friends at all. and social skills are all too important in buisness. look at today's richest men. though i'd hate to bring it up, bill gates is one of the more successful men dealing with computers. however, he knows nothing when compared to the rest of the computing community. while intelligence is half of the game, the other half is knowing how and when to talk. and you can't learn that no matter how many grades you skip... it comes with time.

Give a 9-year-old child the Knuth book?

[sachachua]

Considering that Knuth presented his examples in MIX, which resembles assembly more than, say, structured or OOP - maybe the Knuth books might not be the best thing to give the child right away. It's not exactly the sort of material that gets people excited. Granted, the kid might be a super-genius, but delving right into the details of algorithms without seeing the bigger picture could unnecessarily limit the child. Besides, it's not fun. 8)

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[MicroBerto]

Come on you guys! Everyone's forgetting something here!

Regardless of WHAT is taugh to him, we gotta be selfish. We have to make him an open-source zealot, so that if he ends up being a great programmer, he does good things for me, and i don't have to pay for his software :)

Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto

What Do You Teach?

[Luminous]

If you teach a person something, you are actually teaching them your view of that thing. This is dangerous because your are erecting walls, forming that proverbial box that needs to be 'thought out of' later in life.

It is far better to present sources of information and how to use these sources. From their intellectual curiousity will drive the student to areas that are stimulating. The teacher then becomes a guide to raise questions for consideration and to make sure there is some focus.

Forget Technology

[hakioawa]

Here's the thing. Technology is great. It pays my bills. And all things equal its fun. But in terms of intellectual challenge, writing software and in general most engineering disciplines really don't cut it. Physics, biology, physical chemistry and pure mathematics are for more interesting. And important!

I've been lucky. I've had the opportunity to get an amazing education and some of the best universities in the world. But the allure of $$$ in the valley we're too much for me. I now write code.

But watching the discovery channel and reading about people like Richard Feynman and Carl Segan reminds me that the current technology buzz are very ephemeral and in the long term unimportant.

You have the ability to raise an amazing individual. And if he wants to write code when he grows up, he will. But for now arm him with the basics. Math, physics, biology, philosophy, and foreign languages are my suggestions.

If he has the opportunity to study say fluid mechanics for 10 years before actually having to make a living he'll be in a position to make a HUGE impact on society. The world doesn't need a better OS. Linus will be a footnote in history. But if someone figures out the mathematics behind turbulence he we be remembered and studied for centuries!

group work

[^chuck^]

thinking as a junior undergraduate at Worcester Polytechnic Institute you should teach him the value of collaboration. Too many smart people are used to solving problems themselves without outside help or work, that they fail in the workplace. WPI is geared completely towards that aspect, and anyone who attends here quickly learns the value of group work. No I'm not plugging my school, but when many companies in job interviews state that they prefer hiring WPI grads to MIT grads (who probably excelled in High School better than us) it really hits home.

To this extent Open Source projects could be a great tool, as he/she could learn programming skill, and also how to communicate with others and appreciate their input as well as his/her contribution. Isolation leads very often to egotism, as my best friend (prodigy material) who attends Harvard can be. This is not your problem, but the value of people working together should be a lesson learned in school, although it is infrequently left to the student to discover.

Show him/her how parts of the kernel work, explain how Apache succeeds, show him/her slashdot and how geeks get together in large numbers too. Take him/her to COMDEX or one of those.

I recommend HTML, JavaScript, PHP, and MySQL

[tshieh]

Personally, I think the best place to start is with HTML. It is easy for newcomers to programming to get discouraged (typically, by programs that fail to compile for no obvious reason), but HTML is easy enough that most people can quickly see some real and very satisfying progress within days or hours. Of course, it not "real" programming, but it is similar enough in some crucial aspects (source code that is "executed", edit-run/view-debug cycles) to serve as a gentle introduction. Another way to look at this is that someone who is unable to handle something as easy as HTML is probably going to have serious difficulties with "real" programming languages like C or Java. In the same vein, if you can't even get a "Hello World" program to compile, you're probably not going to embark on a project to create a new OS. After HTML, I recommend proceeding to JavaScript, PHP, and finally MySQL. These are all practical skills (think of PHP as a introduction to ASP or JSP and MySQL as an introduction to Oracle), and in course of learning them, one can become familiar with some of the key technologies that drive e-commerce (in particular, how to create a database-backed website).

I created a web page a few weeks ago about why I think HTML->JavaScript->PHP->MySQL is a good path of learning - check it out if you want more details about my line of reasoning http://www.lmarkets.com/dev/path.shtml.

Teach something useful...

[ari_j]

Get the kid a life. And let him teach himself. If you have to teach him something, he's not really that smart now, is he? Sure, expose him to stuff, but don't tutor him. Spend your time tutoring the people who can use it. If he's smart enough to have a degree at 9, let him figure it out on his own.

And find him something to do for the next 7 years or so so that he doesn't get bored and kill himself. They'll do that on ya.

But do teach him how to post on Slashdot so he can ask his own questions.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[really?]

A couple things:
1. You are nowhere near as smart as you think you are - look up "delusion" in the dictionary.
2. "PRIDE" is NOT the same as arrogance.
3. Blaming others for your own shortcomings is not the best way to deal with life's problems.

A good book: SICP by Abelson, Sussman, Sussman

[occam]

Rather than pontificate about child psychology, I'll just suggest the best computer book I ever read. "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" (MIT Press) by Abelson, and Sussman (two of them!). The book is somewhat introductory, mind-bending, brilliant, and fascinating.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/026201153 0/ o/qid=977108299/sr=2-3/106-2112916-8034810

Judging from the amazon feedback, not everyone "gets it" from the book, but I'm sure your prodigy will. It uses Scheme, an elegant version of Lisp (which means its a very dynamic and good instructional language).

Good luck,

= Joe =

haha

[napsterposter]

whatever dude.. the best thing you could do at this point for this kid is to introduce him to hardcore pornography

Guide, don't push.

[HazMathew]

Show him how to research and use his own talents, so when you are gone he can use those valuable assets to the fullest potential. We all are/were child prodigies. You just need to find where your talents lie. I don't think education(American atleast) spends enough time on showing kids how to study, how to reasearch, how to socaially network and how to become part of an academic team, and how to learn on their own. Too much time is spent on drilling dull facts into minds that are at the peak of learning ability. Study skills are extremely important but its too often left in the dust in the bland American educational system. I know college kids who still don't know how to study and it causes them a lot of greif and frustration. Teachers too often teach to the book or to the test and not to the child. Like I said everyone is different. The teachers I most enjoy are the teachers who most enjoy what they are doing. They are the teachers who can make anything fun, and If you don't understand something they have no problem sitting down one one with you until you do. As I said, be a guide, don't push information on him. Create a strong diverse academic foundation ranging from the arts, to history, to science. And explain the reasing for the teachings and why such a foundation must be laid. Every subject is important. And make sure proper social interaction is presented. Way too many times have I seen wacked out homeschooled kids or people who were child prodigies and had nothing presented but information. Not only are they extremely dull to talk to or wierd, but they often don't understand the importance of personal hygene. A lot of work goes into creating an operating system, its definatly not something you can jump right into, same goes for human beings.

-"Don't cry because its over, smile because it happened."

Learning

[garoush]

A lot of good post - I am impressed but I wander what % of those posters "do upon themselves/others as they do upon others/themselves." That is, do you practice what you perish?!! :-)

Real languages.

[chris_sawtell]

This young fellow is either an Aspergers Syndrome sufferer, or a polymath. If the latter then breadth of education is what is needed. I'd suggest exposing him to real human languages such as Russian and Mandarin Chinese, both of which have considerable beauty. For a computer language tutorial you might find my "Notes for C programmers" useful. The youngest student I know about was a 12 year old in Israel.

C-NOTES ( Not C++ )

teach a 9-year-old about nanotech?

[gimpboy]

hey i thought if he was heading for nanotechnology and writing operating systems the knuth book would be a good start for him. reguardless of the language though, knuth teaches good programming. if the kid is really bright and can focus (which is what i would expect form a prodigy) volume 1 is a really good place to start.

use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that

Re:teach a 9-year-old about nanotech?

[sachachua]

Other than the fact that Knuth presents his examples in MIX (so much for structured programming), the sheer number and detail of algorithms really makes it more of an encyclopedic reference - as Knuth intended it to be. Sedgewick would give a better overview of the different kinds of algorithms. That could serve as a great starting point for anyone who'd like to read about data structures and algorithms. You could then go to Knuth for more detail, but at least you've seen the bigger picture.

Of course, just my thoughts. =)

Let him decide..

[hyperPjohn]

Teach him whatever he wants. Kids have opinions too. Why not show him how much you respect his thoughts and let him decide. Maybe it won't lead to the most "successful" career, but he will be happy. And I believe happy beats career any day.

Don't

[borud]

if at all possible get his focus AWAY from absorbing and make an effort to encourage him to do what other kids his age do.

chances are that he'll be one fucked-up kid by the time he is 20 if all the adults around him can think of is stuffing his brain like it was some cool new toy.

my pointless thoughts

[Tilps]

hmm since we are 550 posts in ... not like anyone will read this anyway ... but my thoughts.
I was/maybe wasnt a child prodigy ... depends on your point of view I guess... but that i think is probably irellivent... (yes I cant spell :P)

When I was going through primary school, I had few friends and was abused by many... In high school I atempted to turn things around a bit, but I got the following... I would talk to people, and would get on really well with them, then someone would come over, and for no reason ask me ... whats 256*23= ... whatever I did at that point, it tainted any friendship I atempted to form ... and this was in a school which was for people who were academically capable. Social skills in my opinion, dont do you much good if you can't work off a clean slate, when it comes to general open society. What is an important thing to learn, is to enjoy life, whatever it throws at you. Learn to live positively, in a negative environment, without 'rose coloured glasses'.

anyway on a different point...

teaching the gifted in my mind, its easy to get distracted into teaching them 'things' like c++ or assembly ... or blah ...
none of these are going to be very good unless they can really learn to think. What you should be thinking of, is using 'Blah' as a platform to help them learn fundamental skill 'blah'... This is a difficult thing to really achieve, but its what should be aimed for. The basic skills in learning how to learn, how to apply logic and when, when to trust creative inspiration and how to apply it, etc etc... are the hardest to teach, but the most important to know. At a young age I would think its hard for the student to understand that, I know that all I wanted was to learn this and learn that ... things. So therefore its best to help them learn 'things', you as a tutor, just have to try and see that an understanding of the fundamental skills of learning get taught. Otherwise once the 'drive to learn everything' slowly fades ... as it often does. You end up with someone who knows alot, but finds more difficulty in going beyond what has been taught and into the unkown, then they would otherwise. Which ultimately, is the rewarding part in my mind.

Random additional bit - 'lateral thinking' is a very good skill to be capable in.

Ofcourse listen to me at your own peril!

well-rounded is the way to go

[Danbo]

I think that everyone who says to stick with the basics is very correct. You should teach him physics, not nanotechnology. But I think the focus should be on well-roundedness first. You are shaping an intellect, and it is for no one to determine that such a brilliant and astute mind is to pioneer technology. You might have the next Ludwig Wittgenstein or James Joyce on your hands. You want to expose him to everything, in an intensive undergraduate sense. Expose him to everything from Plato to Quantum Mechanics, and everything in between. I was by no stretch of the imagination a child prodigy, but I did have a very remarkable propensity for economic theory when I was young, and instead of going to a B-School, I went to a 'small, expensive liberal arts college,' and became a triple major in Mathematics, Economics, and Philosophy (as well as extensive work in Physics), and now I find that the unfocused education has given me many unexpected tools to access in terms of my economics research, and as a 20 year old student in Classical-Harrodian Macrodynamics and CGC modeling, I often think in terms of physics analogies, or philosophical investigations of my models.
Teach the kid how to think, and he can take care of the rest by himself.

Geez!

[Chagrin]

Still just a kid and British Telecom is already suing him for using Hyperlinks.

Small Children and Programming

[Speare]

My general advice for little kids and programming:

LOGO, for visual stimuli, for variables and procedures.

ToonTalk, for a graphical construction environment, teaching pattern-matching and declarative rule-based programming.

Prolog and Java, once the kid is ready to forego the graphical environment.

Why Prolog? ToonTalk is based on Prolog's inference concepts, and I advocate straight Prolog after that. I think too many kids start out with BASIC, Pascal and C, and are forever bent on the idea that procedural languages are all there is to programming.

Re: (you're) messed up

[netrat]

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say, or what you are trying to complain about. You seem to have taught yourself tons of wonderful skills outside of your school. That is the way that most people learn stuff anyway, on their own initiative, not because they are forced too.
And Believe it or not the purpose of school is NOT really to teach kids information and expand their minds. The purpose of schools is basically behavior modification. You know, forcing kids to behave and breaking them into acceptance of society's stupid rules and status quos.

You should really count it as a blessing that you were never sent to any special schools, those are the same thing as regular schools, only the brain-fuck techiques they use are geared toward more intelligent kids.
So tell me. Would have really liked to be taught to program by some asshole teacher who's motto is: "My way or the highway"? People who teach themselves a skill are generally better at it and more creative in it's application.
----------------------------------

Sports

[Vetinari81]

I don't think enough empasis has been placed on the importance of sports. Sports are fun to play, and healthy. Sports also allow socilization with a common ground. Of course, the right sports can be very challenging mentally. And it's nice to see the sun once in a while :) The sports I would suggest include wrestling, soccer, tennis, badminton and basketball. All the above are physically and mentally challenging and also enforce the concepts of team efforts. Good luck! Mike

hey

[fizban]

Oh, hey, look at me. I read Slashdot. I was a fucking child prodigy, or like to think I was. In actuality, I'm a cocky bastard who thinks I'm smarter than anyone else and that's why I get beat up at school. When I was in 2nd grade, I went to the local Junior college to take math and now I sit behind a computer screen and program computer code for a living. Holy shit, did I waste my talents.

Teach the kid art. Teach the kid music. Teack the kid literature. Teach the kid history. Teach the kid how to think about the world in views other than his/her own and how to think beyond the borders of "I'm smart. I'm a prodigy. I'm better than you." And by no means should you direct the kid only into computers. If the kid wants to learn to program, that great. Let him/her do that. But make sure it isn't the only thing. The best thing you can do for this kid is to expose him/her to a broad base of interests.

And damn it, don't prop the kid up making him/her think he/she is more special than anyone else. Let the kid find his/her talents naturally and develop them, but don't fill the kid's head with visions of grandeur.

The one fucking think I hate about Slashdot is all the damn hubris!

--

Breadth, not depth

[Animats]

At that age, go for breadth rather than depth. For example, learning a collection of huge APIs isn't the way to go. Find something of modest size and good style that can be fully understood.

In its day, the Commodore 64 was a great machine for smart kids; it came with a book only an inch thick that described the machine and its software down to the metal. It really was an education in a box. I'm not sure what to suggest that's comprehensive, interesting, and self-contained. Programmable Lego systems, maybe, although they're rather limited.

A few years ago, I'd have suggested Smalltalk, but that's dead. Java is probably reasonable; it's a decent language and system, the tools are affordable, debugging is straightforward, and you can write games in it. It's also a good first language; if you start a kid off in assembler or C, it may take him years before he gets his thinking on design straight.

If he's interested, getting into the math behind 3D graphics is a good way to go. You actually use algebra, trig, and matrices, and you get to see what happens.

suggest they play an instrument

[gnasby]

Hi all, I am one of those "gifties" they made take a little test back in middle school and had all sorts of enriched programs as I went through school. I'm probably not even close to as smart as this young "prodigy", as you term him, but one thing I have come to realize is that a lot of technical type people get a lot out of music and enjoy it greatly. From the comments that have been posted so far, I can gather that the general consensus is that people feel this young child should be steered to becoming a rational thinker, with good social skills, who enjoys life and possibly may be steered towards a technical/scientific/computerish life. There is a definate tie between music and technical/mathmatical people. Encourage this kid to take up a musical instrument with a teacher. Music is a wonderful thing that they should be exposed to. Due to the way the brain develops, music had to be introduced early so that musical ability is not lost. Music is also something that becomes pleasurable by doing. It's a little known fact that Mozart was also a mathematical genious. The kid is probably not a Mozart, but music is a great source of pleasure and inspiration for many technical people. Don't believe me? Have a look at your community's Orchestra or band, you'd be surprised who's in it.

Summer Programs for the Talented

[mperrin]

So how many slashdotters out there went to CTY, CTD, TIP, or the like? How many of you credit these programs with changing your lives? *grin*

It's true, what others have said about the importance of learning social skills. However, the way to do this is not through baseball or whatever. The way to do it is by bringing lots of brilliant kids together and letting them socialize with each other . Academic summer programs like CTY are IMO probably the best way to do this, because they draw kids from a much wider area and thus can draw a larger number of wonderful minds, while at the same time putting them in a fun summer camp environment that caters to the fact that smart kids are still kids after all and want to run around and throw frisbees and go swimming, in between learning Scheme and writing novels.

I can still remember the very first day I spent at CTY (F&M, july of '93) so very clearly. The scene that stands out most in my mind is sitting in the lounge in the dorm and talking about computers and space travel with a bunch of other 13 year olds. It just totally blew me away to finally be meeting kids my own age I could connect with. The experiences I had there that summer, and the following summers, completely changed me around from a total introvert, alone and nervous, to a very outgoing and self-confident young man with lots of other (very smart ;-) friends.

Flash forward three or four years. Many of the people I knew from CTY ended up with me at Harvard, or nearby at MIT, or Princeton, or wherever. Four years after that, we're grad students spread out all over the place, but we're still great friends, and a bunch of us get together for New Year's every year. I absolutely credit CTY for changing my life by bringing together the right people at the right time. The only peer group for a gifted kid is other gifted kids. So do whatever you can to help your youngster find his peers, and he and they will thrive.

Re:Summer Programs for the Talented

[mfurman]

In my other post I forgot about the importance of the Math camps. The post by mperrin says it all!!! My son is never happier than when he meets kids his age, he can actually talk to and be interested. Extremely important!!! Michael Furmaniak

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[LordNimon]

The person who moderated the above as "funny" is a moron. There is little that's more serious than the prevention of lifetime ailments like carpal tunnel syndrome and diabetes. To all the other moderators, please mod this post up as Insightful or Informative. And to those who get the opportunity to meta-moderate this moderation, please mark it as "unfair".
--

Re:Start with the basics..

[irktruskan]

This may be out of order, but is there merit in exposing him to a variety of languages and letting him select which ones are worth following? I felt the need to respond based on earlier comments- for me, it was much easier to learn x86 assembly than it was C, or Perl, or Python.

Then again, maybe my education in electronics engineering might have influenced my experiences.

-r0bb

Aimless post

[mother_superius]

This is not meant to bitch at other posters or the guy who submitted. This is just a brief story of me, and some general suggestions to the Ask Slashdot question.

When I was in grade school, I was had a knack for learning. Unfortunatly, it was pretty unfulfilled. I was stuck learning easy stuff and occasionally I was shoved work sheets with just one good thing to learn spread with busy work to about 20 pages.

I finally got into a gifted - talented program. It wasn't really too helpful either. The woman who ran it wasn't very helpful either. The stuff we did was do reports and we actually spent about two months on... stitching. That's right, stitching. We learned nothing, but it got me out of class, where we learned about nothing but had tons of busy work.

Socially, I ran into many problems as well. Most of the kids were: somewhat smart dorky kids who thought really stupid jokes were funny, or wanna-be gangsters. I didn't like either.

In middle - school, I actually learned stuff, but I wasn't too challenged, especially in sciences. In English, I was a mediocre student. I was willing to become better, but those teachers didn't have much to teach. The advanced classes didn't really know anything either - the kids were self - taught.

In my freshman year of high school, I went up going crazy over social troubles while having somewhat harder classes. I attempted suicide and couldn't find any friends - I didn't want friends in most of the freshmen of that year.

So now, in my sophomore year, things have gotten a little better, but some have stayed. I still have mental problems, but I'm learning some more. I use Linux and I program, and I'm a bit of a punk.

In conclusion, I never learned the value of studying, a pretty good mind almost perished, many years were spent in waste learning nothing.

So, now that you heard my embarrassing story, here's some advice: don't take him to play with other kids as others have suggested - maybe some older kids. The punks I hang out with are pretty nice and a genious wouldn't learn anything bad and wouldn't be a burden to have listening. At least have the sort of geeky comraderie like here on Slashdot (besides the desktop wars) and get him some geek friends who know fun.

Now for the actual learning part: Buy him some somewhat cheap computer parts. Tell him how to put it together and let him do it. Get him some Linux books (or BSD - etc., if there are enough available) and let him learn how to learn Linux, guide him a little. Get him Python, do the same thing. Next move onto C, show him the source code, do some assembly. C++ wouldn't help to much here. Teach him some basic Electrical Engineering stuff too. Where you go after that I'm not sure. But I think this huge post is a start.

Teach broad topics, not specific ones

[ttys00]

If you teach this prodigy Assembly or Java or nanotech concepts, surely he or she will grasp them quickly and become very good in that field.

However, one day your prodigy will be on his own and will have to get a job. If he or she is merely an excellent programmer, they will always stay on the bottom rung of the corporate ladder. Teach him design concepts, algorithms (as others have pointed out) and even some management ideas so he can work his way up that ladder and make something of himself. School and his parents won't teach him that.

Also, teach him to use applications, not just write them. The amount of programmers that I know (as a CS/EE grad I know a lot of them) that can't even use Word properly is astounding.

Political Education

[eric434]

Don't forget: no gifted child should be politically naieve. (sp?)
Make sure to give him a copy of Soon to be a Major Motion Picture (Abbie Hoffman's autobiography), make sure he reads Slashdot (and Jon Katz's VFTH), and give him a lifetime subscription to 2600 (if you can afford it). And copies of the New Hacker's Dictionary, Voices from the Open Source Revolution (I think that's the title), and any other books you find edifying. Also, DO make sure he learns a bit about S*ientology (*'ed to avoid copyright lawsuits), and the 'conservative' viewpoint.
Sometimes the best argument against something is the argument(s) for it.

L. U. L. & M.

[Pig Hogger]

Teach him to:

• Listen
• Understand
• Learn
• Masturbate.

That's all he'll ever need in life.

--
Game over, 2000!

Re:Prodigy=Slacker, sometimes

[ttys00]

I was part of a similar program when I was 8, going on 9. We weren't asked either. We were told to go here, and do this, on these days. Eventually I got sick of it, and went back to normal classwork with normal people. I was offered to skip grades, go to "better" schools, all the rest of it, but I didn't want that either.

Why not? Because it was fun being with kids my own age. The things I did with my friends have given me happy memories and things to talk about with other people. Yes, my equivalent of the GPA (in .au here) isn't spectacular, but I don't care - I have plenty of mates to socialize with, and that's a lot more important to me than how big a number is.

Give him NASA, Medicine or Shakespeare

[active8or]

Ok, I am in no way qualitfied to say what I am about to say, but just think about it.

The IT industry is filled with crap, and there so many people in here allready. (who said there was a worker shortage, when homeless IT workers that are "too old" is a problem in Silicon Vally)

If he proves to have a lasting intellegent mind, i would suggest you learn him about Space. We should have been way off where we are today in Space technology, the only reason not is becouse the US didn't care so much after they had proven they could put a small pod on the moon. If he is he is generaly into electronics, the engering experience might do him good (=

How about medicine? If is a general wonderchild, maybe he could do more good for humaity there?

LAst bug not least, give him the "football" mentioned earlier and often in this thread, but also Shakespeare, art, and thoughts that all science is made to serve humanity, and NOT just for profit.


- Knut S.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[Cinna]

I would have to agree with you hear, although not on the point about Reality's intelligence. It seems obvious to me that he has a good deal of it, as do the majority of those who post here.

I concur with you on the point you made about people being capable of having both social skills and intelligence. To recount my experience with it, as we seem to be doing so well in this line of dialogue, I was picked on a good deal in younger grades...but not because of my arrogance[although I have been accused of that vile trait occasionally]. I think the idea that we are picked on because of our intelligence is slightly off kilter. If you really look at it, the majority of intelligent people DO cause themselves to be picked on, but not in the way Reality is hinting at. I think intelligent people have a way of setting themselves up to be picked on, not because they are less introspective than others, less willing to admit their own problems, but in fact they are MORE aware of their own deficiencies. We, as a group, have a tendency to wall ourselves away from society because our intelligence is a natural lead in to far too much introspection, which is a sure way to maim your self esteem. So many of us withdraw a bit from society, study more often and go to parties less, because we have low self esteem, and other people interpret that as arrogance and weakness and THAT is what makes them pick on you. Once I realized that the way I thought others thought of me directly effected the way THEY were treating me, I gained a hell of a lot more popularity and more friends, even growing to the point where those who had picked on me were apologizing for their misdeeds. You see, its all in your perspective, and intelligent people can easily decieve themselves into believing they are not social enough, and that kind of thinking has a way of creating that type of situation.

Whew, a bit long winded, but then again...aren't we all?

"Two falling stars, once intertwined,
Broken in their descent to earth."

Slashdot for Kids?

[G Andrews]

Catch22: If the kid hangs out with his "peers" he may well decide people aren't worth bothering with because they're stupid, or that he should toot his own horn all the time. If he hangs out with adults or on his own, he may have a hard time with social skills.

Why isn't there a Slashdot for smart geeky kids? It seems Slashdot is such a great tool for self-teaching, and also a wonderful way to "come out" and be supported in a community where people share your interests.

Every now and again I find a young person who ought to be reading Slashdot but in one way or another the material might be over his/her head. I would love to see a site where kids like my friends, who even in junior high felt that knowledge was more than just something you crammed into your head in order to get a grade, could share knowledge and experiences.

Why handle prodigies differently?

[memoir]

With so much attention being placed on making sure the best child-raising techniques are applied to "prodigies", especially in the area of "intellectual stimulation", why is that these children are handled with greater care, or to obviously rephrase, why are we handling normal children with less care? I suppose most suggestions here come from our own frustrations in life, many from hearing similar "you have so much potential" speeches from our parents. Mix this with the illusivness of perfection to give you an even greater headache. I think many of us here are trying to solve the problem of the child not having any "regrets" when he's older by filling the child with as much "information" or "content" as possible. IANAP (psychologist) but arn't such regrets and stemming unhappiness the results of having a poor relationship with your mother and father? eg being loved for who you can be rather than who you are? Now for my crappy illustration. Imagine two 21 year young men. Both don't know how to read. Both are given the opportunity to begin learning, and they both take it. The happy guy will think "great let's start learning" whilst the unhappy guy will think "i wish i could of started earlier". Does it really matter for the "prodigy" that his potentials are realised? Or does it only matter when his potentials are defined by others?

Introduce him to Slashdot

[rent]

Introduce him to Slashdot, show him this discussion and make him read all the comments. Ask him which comments he likes best, and deal accordingly.

Set him/her up with a Slashdot account.

[Elyjah]

I mean, hey, everything everyone EVER wanted to know about technology is here. And a little lesson in karma whoring never hurt anyone either.

Why do eveybody wants to mutilate him with BASIC?!

[Li0n]

the kid didn't do you any harm! :P

~
~

What to say?

[M_Firmature]

I was like that around 10. I had no one to mold me other than my parents, they did a over all good job. By the time I was 12 I was enrolled in several college programming classes and working in a computer store full time (during the summer) . At 15 I was doing R&D on the Palm platform, Mostly dealing with wireless apps. I am now a MCSE at 18. I just excelled at computers, Just a average student through grade and high school. The best rule to follow, is push just enough to get things done. My parents never forced me to do anything but they did encourage me not to do others. Ie, when I was playing doom... Why are you wasting your time with that when you could be programming... So much to do so little time...

Ask the kid

[debreuil]

Why would you ask yourself, and ask us, what the kid should be interested in? Find out what the kid likes and do that. --or-- Do what you are good at and see if the kid is interested. Don't assume you (or anyone here for damn sure) knows what is best, especially for someone else... PS did you metion nanotechnology just so you could get on slashdot?

Remember that he's a kid

[Clubber Lang]

I can't really give you any advice off hand on what to do with him, just remember that although you may be able to treat him intellectually as and adult, no matter how mature (or immature) he normally acts he's still emotionally a kid.

IMAGINE A BEOWOLF CLUSTER OF THOSE

[alephnull42]

Oh well.

9 years old?

[jest6r]

The hunger for intelectual gains, especially in some one of this age, are to be fed. On the other hand socail development is a variable all to often overlooked. His desires may lead him to math(age 9) but later them may lead him to girls(age 13). This leaves you not with a choice of books to give him, but of choices to leave him. Does he make the plunge into pure mathmathics or do you give him what his mind desires, along with what he can(socially) grasp? His intellectual life will be all but ordanary, dare you do the same with his socail life? Inregaurds to resources, just let him find it. Does he want a knowledge of programming? Start in C where it began. Does he want to know how to program hardware? Show him http://www.lexitech.com/bobrich. Java? http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/infodocs/? frontpage-main and let him go nuts. Kids like this don't need prodiding, they need a mediator. Someone to keep them from remembering their mental age yet to develop their mind. Code long, live short, die rich!

Child Prodigy: Myth or Hype?

[SluttyButt]

What makes a child prodigy? A child given to exceptional talent? Observations often show most children as being bright and promising. This diminishes with advancing years and most tapers off when they arrived at their teens. Why do children lose much of their promise? It's the world that we made and live in. Their environment if happens to be so-termed right, could make them blossom into a prodigy. Reality is the world would not allow mere prodigies but he has to a blessed prodigy - so most children falls by the wayside in the sea of budding prodigies. Would you like to encourage your charge to blossom? You'll have to recognize the basic intuition of the child and test its response. Then check if you have the environment for him to bloom. Then be his friend and play - both you and the child's enthusiasm is vital. What are the basis of play? Truth, Fairplay and Honour. What is the basis of friendship? Unconditional but govern by the play basis. What is the best education availble? Nature. Does the world provide absolute answers as described above? The prodigy will learn with new insights from your guidance. Be there when he needs you. Consider it a blessing (for you) if you have a charge with prodigal promise. Who will gain more is debatable but would an adult gain on life alone?

Ethics, Religion, and Music

[puppetluva]

• Music - 80% of computer programmers, mathematicians and physics professionals also know how to play a musical instrument. This is no accident, the pattern-recognition, communication skill, and emotional expression/release need is what many of these folks have in common.
• Ethics - The RAMIFICATIONS of what technology creates/enables are not readily apparent. . . we need more learning in this field. The child may not have the emotional maturity to apply this, but should always be thinking about these things.
• Religion - REVIEW MANY OF THEM and their commonalities. Learning to relate to other people and understand their motivations is most easily done from this viewpoint. This topic relates to the previous topic and gives a rich framework for understanding things the child will go through and people/institutions the child may face. Emphasize commonalities, then differences and discuss errors and errata in the books from a technical standpoint and discuss why these are not important. Works I would consider: The Bhagavad Gita, Western Old and New Testament, Nostradamus' Predictions, The Talmud.

Put him working on 2.4

[hoss10]

If he doesn't get it out by Christmas,
Santa won't visit him

A merged KDE and GNOME wouldn't do any harm either ;-)

find him a friend

[waterbiscuit]

A child of 9 may well have a very high IQ indeed, but this doesn't give him the mental capability to cope with the information he is learning. Just imagine yourself as a 9 year old progidy. You will be completely aware of how exceptional you are, you will have far more intelligent insight than anyone else, and a craving to learn more and more. The child is already isolated from the world, already classed as different. And there is no point attempting to make him completely normal, because it simply wont work, and the child will have the intelligence than to see through any plans to make him so. I'm 16, by no way a progidy, but intelligent enough to feel completely isolated from normal people. Until I was 13 I went to a highly selective girls school, where I enjoyed my time, and had a friend much more articulate than myself, and brilliant at English- I was the mad-scientist-to-be, she was the next Charlotte Bronte. It was a nice balance because I didn't have her ability in English. Then for reasons I'm not going to discuss- I went a bit off the rails, and decided to leave and start at a new school. This new school was not selective, and was about the same size as my last. From being relatively happy, pushed by my friends, with people better than I, I simply could not bring myself to interact with these people, who just seemed incredibly unintelligent. I could not see how they could possibly not understand what we were learning. I was frustrated and had nobody to have conversation with, who shared my love of learning. This child is most probably already far beyond this situation. So yes, teach him all you like, but find him another child progidy to learn with. Give him a friend to learn from, to communicate with, and have fun with. Contrary to some of the beliefs expressed here, the child can have so much fun learning, he will absolutely love absorbing new information, but he will be infinitely happier if you find him a friend to learn with. If this does not happen, he will become introverted, locked up inside his own world with nobody to talk to. And he simply will not be able to cope with this, and his abilities will be wasted. I know this isn't in direct reply suggesting how to approach tutoring him, but all I ask is that you find him a friend to learn with.

i totally agree

[Garbagehead]

this is absolutely correct. i dont want to sound full of myself, but i am extremely gifted at school. i used to be the "teachers aid" because i would finish my work in about 1/4 the allocated time and then go help people and mark work.

this absolutely SHIT ME OFF!!! the concept of having a smart kid in a class to help bring the class forward is a TOTAL LOAD OF CRAP! all that happens is you get extremely pissed off at school and "the system" for forcing you into doing something that you SHOULD NOT BE DOING. this is why i started smoking weed. i decided that i would just wag 2-3 days/week and smoke myself senseless.

if anyone who reads this has very intelligent kids, please, do them a favour and take them out of school. do homeschooling or something, and let them do whatever they want to do. school is absolutely killing their motivation.

teach the kid drumming..

[dingchak_2000]

it disciplines creativity

Broad Education

[jzig]

As someone that as considered a child prodigy myself, I'd say don't emphasize the technical stuff more than you have to, if they're a real prodigy, they'll find it on their own easily enough :P Expose him to music, literature, etc. I used to be a person obsessed with computers, now I'm obsessed with computers AND music, and am better for it. In other words, try to widen him, not narrow him towards some hot technical field that will leave him vulnerable to society.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[suwain_2]

Yes, I'd really like to concede with this. (s)he was not saying that it's *right* to pick on someone because they're a genius; he was saying that a lot of people are so arrogant that they force people to pick on them.

I thought that the main "focus" was "Many child 'prodigies' bring unnecessary problems unto themselves by being unnecessarily arrogant." The point was "don't be a braggart", not "let's go pick on someone smart."

What about what the *child* wants?

[kd5biv]

I can't say I was a prodigy or even gifted when I was that age, but I was definitely drawn to some exotic interests and was pretty far ahead of most kids my age (how far ahead, and how they reacted to it, is another story..) and I can tell you one thing for sure: There is nothing more irritating to a child that's ahead of the curve than adults trying to steer your development.

I know, I know, we all want what's best for the child, and we want the child to have the best possible opportunities and so and so forth. Fact is, the best thing is to hold off on trying to cram information you think is important into the kid. Odds are he/she is *already* better equipped to figure out what to explore than you are, and will be attracted to the things he/she has an aptitude for. I know this was true in spades for me, and if I had had the chance to break into the bleeding edge stuff on my own back when I originally had the desire, which was around the time I was 9-10 years old .. well, I'd probably have been a .com and be traded on Nasdaq about now. I let the grownups talk me out of it and convince me to stay on the class's level, and ended up where I am today. Suffice it to say you haven't heard of me.

Moral? Don't try to lead -- follow the child and hang on for the ride .. ;-)

Gifted child - my experience

[mfurman]

I have had a first hand experience with a gifted child and here are my comments: 1. My son was "discovered" as a gifted child quite late in his life. He was already 10 years old. The school system did not help him much (about this later) but fortunately he was assigned a mentor (mathematics) and was to get another mentor in computer science as well but it did not work. He always loved programing (started on his own at the age 9-10) and now is quite good (loves Perl). 2. I think that learning technology (including computers and programming) does not make any sense. My son (he is almost 15 now) concentrates on Mathematics. He is interested in physics as well (loves string theory and generally modern physics: the more abstract, the better) but he focuses on Math (he is preparing for a Canadian Math Olympic Team). He works with his mentor a few times a week but also corresponds with some university professors. He got quite a few good results in various Math contests. He is done with school math and is taking some classes a local university. 3. The school systems caters to average (or mediocre) students. On this continent self esteem of anyone is much more important than excellence. "Everyone is a winner". Take the child out of school. Let those stupid kids at schools torment someone else. This society hates those who do not have patience for stupidity (as illustrated in some replies to your question, as well) 4. Unless he is going to be a used car salesman or other type of business person, his social skills should come second to his intelectual skills. EQ was invented by social engineers who always want to keep low IQ people happy. 5. My son got his couple of black belts in martial arts but he considers team sports as a waste of time and generally prefers to read and solve math problems to doing anything else. I tried to almost force him to be more active in sport but it did not work. Again, Americans are obsessed with sport, teams and everything which works agains individual talents. Remember, averyone in this country has to have a high self esteem (even idiots). 6. We do need more intelligent, bright people. We do not need any more activists who want to change the world. Masses were never intelectual. 6. Here in Canada funding for gifted children comes from the same pool of money as for "special" children. This illustrates the whole problem. No comments. I could get you in touch with the gentleman who takes care of my child. He is a very experienced and wonderful a person. Regards, Michael Furmaniak

Child Prodigy

[mapss]

You can teach him the latest technology about SONET (Synchronous Optical Network) and DWDM(Dense Wavelength Devision Multiplexing). This technology of course is not new but just now is geting very popular and is the way for the future since everyone wants and needs more speed for transfering data and multimedia. Go to http://www.redbooks.ibm.com and download the book "Understanding Optical Communications".And of course teach him about God, and how important is to obey his commands, this way he will have wisdom as long as he follows the Bible(see any Bible like the Kings James version or the New World Translation).

Electronics

[cathryn]

If he's interested in electronics, and you want to get him building things, that is hardware, you might get him 'Circuitmaker' http://circuitmaker.com or something else like it. You can drag and drop your components right into a your circuits and test them on the computer. And, the program can design printed circuit boards also. So, he can either etch his own cards, or pay someone to do this, and actually build stuff. They have demos and educational versions.

Programming Lego Mindstorms

[Vulture-X]

I would get the kid the Lego Mindstorms starter kit. What a perfect toy/tool. It will teach him programming in a fun and cool and most importantly, creative way. And it has great hackability! You can put your own code on there programmed in C and a variety of other languages, and he could get involved with others working with Mindstorms over the internet.

Check it out, Mindstorms are the coolest toy I have seen in years.

--
Evan Jones http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/Students/ejones/
"Computers are useless. They can only give answers." - Pablo Picasso

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[albanac]

You see, there was only two ways to avoid the bullying when I was in school. You either had to kick everyones asses, or kiss everyones asses. I did the former, because it was the "proper" way to handle things.

I can't argue with this. I've been put in situations very much like it myself, and have not dealt with them as well as I'd like. However:

...I taught them all the same lesson (one is forever blinded in his left eye because of me).

... There *must* be a better way to deal with someone than permanent injury, if (as you clearly imply) you are a proficient martial artist. I'm not a 'student of the Te' but I know a bit, and even I could stop someone harrassing me without permanent injury, unless they're on something like speed or heroin (I know that of which I speak here). But that is, quite definitely, none of my business. I replied to say:

But what is that kid likely to learn when he's forced to hide his intellectual superiority because "it'll make the other kids jealous", or "it's unfair"? Smart kids want to be as socially accepted as any other kid, and if you drive it into them that using their intelligence is what causes people to not like them, they will eventually turn away from their intelligence and stop learning.

This was not implied by the original or the subsequent post. None of it was. 'hide his intellectual superiority' ... 'using their intelligence is what causes people not to like them' != 'present their knowledge and intelligence in a way that is not arrogant or antagonistic' ... 'being an asshole is what causes people not to like you'.

The original author was saying (imo rightly) that it is not being intelligent or using their intelligence that causes 'smart' kids (in modern society, read 'mathematically inclined kids') to get picked on. It's being an asshole who chips in with every answer ahead, and who is proud thereof. The kind of guy who posts his high school (A-level) grades on his dorm room door (and yes, I do know people who did this) so that people who meet him 'know a little about him(her)'. People do know a little about that person: they immediately know that they're arrogant little berks with nothing interesting to say about themselves beyond a 4.0 average.

Like the original author, it took me years to work out that people weren't calling me pompous for my knowledge but for my style of delivery. I'm working on it. So can anyone who gets the appropriate guidance. So the trick is not to "drive it into them that using their intelligence is what causes people to not like them" but to demonstrate that there are ways and means and some will get you liked and picked on, some will get you dispised and picked on, and some will get you respected.

~cHris
--
Chris Naden
"Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee"

People, let's answer the question

[fundulus]

Apparently, this child's parents have taken appropriate steps to educate this prodigy...they have hired a tutor, taking him out of school. The tutor was not looking for advice as to how he, probably skilled and educated at this sort of thing, should approach the child's education. Instead, the child expressed an interest in programming, and he was asking for a direction in which to guide him. As a group, we seem to have taken this opportunity to complain about the miseries of our own childhoods, instead of answering this educator's question. I would suggest you consider getting him involved with the hurd project. This is a terrific way to learn about OSes due to the modularity of the design. Potentially, one could spin off many different variations from that core. Creativity will determine where that fundamental base could lead. By approaching the open source community with this question, it is reasonable to assume that this tutor is looking to have him "learn by doing", which we all know is the best way. Good luck.

Re:People, let's answer the question

[p0etsplace]

As a group, we seem to have taken this opportunity to complain about the miseries of our own childhoods, instead of answering this educator's question. ~fundulus

About time someone brought it up. I've just spent almost an hour reading through as many posts as I could (seeing that I am at work right now) and I've got to hand it to a lot of you. For you see, I am now just learning that almost everyone that reads /. is a SUPER GENIUS. Yep, thats right, SUPER GENIUS. 'cause apparently, you all learned to read when you were 2 and you learned super string theory when you were 8. A lot of you went off on tangents based on bias and age old wounds that I do not believe you ever got over. BillH wrote how he got picked on all the time until he started fighting back. BillH are proud of the fact that you left someone blinded for life? Jonathon wrote a sarcastic remark relating to a successful adult and a used-car salesman. My dad was a used car-salesman. Now he wasn't a SUPER GENIUS like you all but most of us aren't. Am I rambling now, probably. I guess thats the down side of being average...always rambling. I'm just glad that none of you have a hand in teaching this child anything.

advice from a recovering education major...

[sethg]

I suppose I count as a "former child prodigy". I also spent two years getting a graduate degree in deaf education. The most important lesson I learned during those two years can be boiled down to four words:

Shut up and watch.

The biggest temptation I faced as a student teacher was to stand in front of the class and lecture. Sometimes this is necessary and useful, but sometimes this does more for the teacher's ego than the student's education.

However, while you are not-lecturing, you need to pay attention to what the student is learning, what the student's interests and learning style are, etc.

The trick is to provide the right direction at the right moment that keep the student from becoming either bored or frustrated.
--

Tutoring a Child Prodigy

[annielaurie]

As the mom of a former "math kid," now grown, I'd have to say the most important issues aren't the technical ones. His gifted mind will absorb whatever he's interested in, and you'll just need to stand back and be amazed. What is important is to allow him to be a nine year old. Let him play video games and street hockey. Let him hang around with the other Nines. Make sure he knows how to throw a baseball and shoot a basket. Be certain he reads novels according to his age and interest. In a couple of years, when his voice deepens and the whiskers begin to sprout -- and the feelings get all bargled up -- be certain he's with some friends who are experiencing the same thing. What you're after here is not about developing a prodigy. It's about helping a gifted young person to develop normally until he reaches his full potential.

Re: Tutoring a Child Prodigy

[ChuckDivine]

I don't know if I qualify as a child prodigy. I was and am very bright. My GRE scores put me in the top 1/1000 (yes, three zeroes) of adult humans. I was also quite good in school. There wasn't any such thing as formal "gifted and talented" education in New Jersey back in the 50s, though. I certainly wasn't treated as a "prodigy" -- just an unusually good student.

I'd expose the child to lots of stimulating things in many areas of life. For instance, this month I'd take the child to see the "Nutcracker" ballet. Children in general love the show. Science fiction aimed at adolescents and younger might also intrigue the child. I mention these things because both have interested me.

Don't be afraid to show the child what interests you. Expose him to other adults with varied interests. If you have a active local Mensa group, go to them for help. Most (not all) Mensa people have quite good social skills. The organization has made a significant commitment to helping the "gifted and talented."

Talk to him (or her, if it's a girl) about your life. Don't give boring lectures, but use short stories about meaningful incidents.

Avoid organized sports. I personally think 9 year olds are too young for that kind of nonsense. If it were up to me, I'd set a minimum age limit for participation in formal teams with uniforms, coaches, leagues, etc. My preferred limit? The minimum age for legal consumption of alcoholic beverages. Of course, I'd lower that limit. But still, I think we're forcing children into organized sports at entirely too young an age. No, this isn't the bitter comment of a geek couch potato. I run about 35 miles a week (or swim the equivalent). I've finished a marathon and my times for 10 K races are in the top 15-25% for my age group. A fair number of my friends are runners. But I've seen both physical and psychological injury happen to children who have gotten into organized sports at the tender age of 9 (or earlier).

If possible, steer the child in the direction of flexible, democratically oriented people and groups. My biggest problems have been with mildly intelligent but rigid, authoritarian people who are convinced they have The Answers -- and don't like hearing that they don't.

Most importantly, relax and enjoy yourself. If you don't like the tutoring, stop. And when you stop, let the child know why. Be honest. But also try not to hurt the child.

Good luck!

Re: Tutoring a Child Prodigy

[Vanguard(DC)]

this just about pisses me off.. but it worries me more than anything since you may reproduce and promote non-inolvement in organized sports!

Are you worried about the spychological ramifications of he/she being cut from a team or missing a winning goal?? Well, DONT! lessons learned in organized sports by young children are almost too many to name, but I'll list a few:

1. Team sportsmanship, sharing
2. gets the children in shape and gets them into enjoying their physical prowess.
3. they learn to enjoy winning, and striving toward greatness...they also learn defeat is not the end of the world...
4. most importantly, THEY ARE A PART OF SOMETHING. they are involved, and off the streets. In this day and age, that should be the first and foremost thought in a parent's mind...

I believe you may be educated and highly intelligent, and let me tell you, NJ has come a long way because they yanked me out and had me learning Calc in 4th grade... so things have changed...

But while I was learning Calculus in fourth grade, I was playing 3 sports... Soccer since age 4 (AND STILL PLAYING!), Baseball since age 7...wrestling since age 7...etc etc...

I BELIEVE THOSE WERE THE GREATEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MY YOUTH... not being accepted and going to the best high school in the US, not getting great grades which i did, BUT PLAYING EVERY SPORT I COULD FIT IN EACH YEAR!!

Without those teamwork skills, and the knowledge that defeat is not the end-all, and winning feels great, I wouldnt be as successful as I am...

So do us all a favor bro: DONT PRODUCE ANOTHER "RUNNER"-GEEK IN YOUR IMAGE FOR MY KIDS TO BEAT UP AND OUT-SCORE IN SCHOOL...

lol.. you are way off...

-Vanguard
ps: My suggestion: teach the kid either Game development (he'll enjoy it AND get rich if he's that smart)...OR teach the kid the ins and outs of computer security... (a field in its infancy still which will be around forever in one form or another!! thank god!!)

what he really should do...

[tmark]

is work on his jumpshot, take growth hormone and later - say, when 10 or 11, spend some quality time in the gym doing strength training. If his inside game is halfway as good as his computer skills evidently are, he will be the happiest kid to ever leave college early, and he will invite you to parties with models and actresses, and to rap-video shoots where there will be more models and actresses. Are there any computer guys who party with tons of models and actresses ? Can't think of any offhand.

Failing that, teach him how to play the guitar. The world doesn't need another Bill Gates or Linus Torvalds, the world needs another Jimi Hendrix (or a good big center who can seriously help some NBA team challenge the lakers).

Why all the guidance?

[DrNightTripper]

It appears to me, after reading a good few hundred replies, that in the view of most people, something should actively be done about a 'child prodigy,' almost as if they were prime stock, or an excellent specimen of raw material. Whether the suggestions are about guiding the kid toward more socially-oriented endeavors, more math, less math, more C++, more OOP, less electronics, more nanotechnology, this or that--there are two implicit ideas underlying these suggestions:

(1) The child must be guided.
(2) The study of any particular field is but the means to an end.

Now, both of these ideas are interconnected.

Since the child "knows not what it needs," or rather, needs to *become*, we have to guide it toward a career of some form. Give it a future that is tangible to our adult mindsets. A PhD, a researcher position, programmer, success, and so forth.

On the other hand (and I certainly hope I'm right on at least this one), a 9-year-old, regardless of analytical skills, would tend to view activities only as either fun or not fun. Any perception of ambition (if I practise, or learn this, I could become that) has not had an opportunity to seep in yet, which of course creates a serious conflict of interest involving ALL parties--A parent would naturally want the child to be 'successful,' or at least 'tap into its full potential,' or (god forbid) 'be all it can be.' Tutors likewise, don't exactly want their tutees to measure less than par on anything. Schools, too: they like to see good grades and excellence to crank their reputation.

Now, in between all these intermingled desires, there is probably the simple hope of any nine-year-old to just have a good time (which involves having self-esteem, social interaction, challenges, etc.) How it is best accomplished varies from child to child--some kids are more amused than others by intellectual activity. Some get bored quickly when stuff is too easy for them.

Ambition and ideals aside, I honestly think that this little wish is the best I could wish any person, child or not, prodigy or not.

Somehow it seems that a majority do not feel that happiness comes out of doing things that you enjoy, and only because you enjoy doing them. Not because it will get your name printed everywhere, or a neat salary, or some letters attached to your name?

Would it be a "waste" not to map out a kid's life for him? To just see to it that needs to fight boredom are fulfilled? Maybe he wouldn't ever be a PhD or a successful something-or-other. Maybe he'd just enjoy his life in its multitude, its intellectual challenges and its complexity. Maybe he'd go around picking up things as he feels like it and enjoy the process. Would that be a "waste"?

So in all this verbosity, I have two simple suggestions: Encourage the child to try out as many different activities as possible. Support the child's interests unconditionally (even if he child wants to spend time with something he has no 'talent' for, or something that won't "lead to anything.") And take him out for ice cream.

Tutoring A Child Prodigy?

[Anonymous Coward]

• Teach him that it's okay to do things that he enjoys, even if he isn't good at them.
• Teach him that everyone is unique, that it is legitimate for him to enjoy things that others don't, and vice versa.
• I concurr with those who suggest exposing him to Mathematics. Not the watered down curriculum you see in contemporary HS texts, but real Mathematics.
• Let his interests guide you; don't try to push him into areas that he isn't interested in.
• Expose him to the fine arts, e.g., music.
• Teach him that it's okay to enjoy things that aren't important.
• Teach him that it's okay to be silly.
• Teach him to help others in what he is good at, and to accept help from others in what they are good at.

Done right, it's a tough job. Kol hakavod (kudos) for taking it on.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
host acm (at) org, user shmuel

The Answer is... Re:Don't miss this window.

[netsharc]

I would like to note that as I read this, the random comment at the bottom of the page is/was:
You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here.

Linus's success is due to people skills

[peter303]

Any nerd can write a piece of an OS kernal,
even reverse engineer the UNIX OS. However
it takes a skilled organizer to herd hundreds
of nerds to write a great OS like Linux.
Not that many children have that skill.

Problem solving skills

[big_cat79]

I find that with programming, knowledge of the language is less important than being able to apply that language to reach a goal. Anyone who is good at memorization can learn a programming language. But to actually utilize that skill in an effective manner, problem solving is the key component. At least in my opinion.

Significance vs. Success (and a few buzz-words)

[enlightened_newbie]

an actual answer to your question....

If you are looking for buzz words look up quantum computing. It is amazing what you can do with an electron. Nanotechnology (that you mentioned) is also a fascinating field with huge potential. In my opinion anything in math (like P=NP problem ) or physics are the most interesting fields.

my commentary...

I am not going to lecture you on what you should or should not do to a prodigy. But I would like to point out that there is a difference in a significant career and a successful one. Lots of talented people go through life and are merely successful due to their talents. It is much more satisfying to have a career that is significant to the world at large. This seems to be a concept most people don't realize.

I would encourage everyone to have an impact on the world around them. Solve one of the universe's mysteries. Go on you know you can do it...

I had the good fortune to stumble into what I consider a significant career after college. When I look at what the other folks in my majors at school do now and what I do now, it is hard to imagine how they cope. High stress, mundane work(even if it is cutting edge), job hopping. yuck.

my $.02.

Calculus, languages, and give me an email address

[arete]

There are some things that are particulars, some that give you a different way to think, and most are somewhere in between. In terms of programming languages, I'd say java. Not because it is "the best" or bleeding edge. I haven't heard of any other language that does a better job of making you think clearly about what you're doing - and is ever used by more than 10 people

The most important things to teach young are those things that are harder to get there later. languages are terribly hard to learn later. I'm not near the level of this child, but always a few grades up. It is important to interact with a bunch of people who are peers... that isn't you, because it's your job to be "above" at least in an emotional sense. They don't have to be his/her age, but they have to include a fair top/bottom mix such that more than 1 makes contributions to what's going on.

I firmly believe that calculus should be taught to most children b4 the fifth grade. Gifted children sooner. If you think about it, you only need to have learned multiplication, functions, and very basic graphing to begin learning differentiation and integration. Basic algebra results in symbolic results. As they learn new things, they learn the calc part too. Trig, logs, geometry, most analytical algebra, etc are unecessary to establish the important, thought changing concepts about rate.

No, they won't learn eigenvectors until much later. who cares. Many "educated" people never get their minds around calculus because they weren't thinking about things well enough earlier. I derived a tiny example of calculus a year b4 I was supposed to take it. My teacher was not happy and told me it was only true in a specific case - I later discovered SHE didn't know calculus (this is NOT a bad school, either) it took me pages to prove a broadER case algebraically... and I never got her to understand. (She did let me site my algebraic proof on the test...) the calc proof is exactly two lines, verbosely.

I think this is why it isn't taught - teachers b4 college in the US usually have degrees in gened (this is PREFERRED by schools) as opposed to in their field of teaching. THEY don't know calc. My mother taught teachers and she certainly didn't - I ended doing her gradebook in jr high. Her grades were 15% whatever she wanted so she could lean whether she liked you or not. She did NOT make that number up independently, she modified it until she liked the result. And she is not alone.

If you reply with an email addy in body, I'll send you mail. I'm out of time.

unbelievable

[L0rax23]

I think you should teach him how to fetch, roll over, and play dead. Then make sure to teach him how to heel. That way he won't stray far from the path of normality and thus can grow up to freely create the latest cutting edge technology and never have to think about the social ramifications. Seriously though, everyone's talking about htis kid as if they are some kinda pet. It's a human being not a science experiment. Let see how much junk we can cram in it's head before it explodes. Everyone must keep in mind that we are talking about a human being. While they are still a child, I think children have been extremely underestimated throughout history. The only thing seperating children from adults is experience. And experience is the ultimate tutor. There is nothing you can teach a child, they must learn everything for themselves. (for those who like to take things out of context... this doesn't mean that they must start from ground zero and re-invent everything) Think of the relation between a very young child and a flame. No matter how many times you tell them not to touch it they will (with the exception of severe physical repremand and disencouragement) eventually touch it. They will get burned. They will now know why not to touch it. The best you can hope to offer is to guide them into the experience slowly to reduce the pain. Help them move the hand slowly. Feel the heat. Then they can learn respect for those forces they can't yet understand before they bite them in the ass. I don't claim in the slightest to be a child prodigy or anywhere near this kids inteligence, but I was a gifted child, raised in a gifted program. And really we are just talking about levels of extreme. I was a social late bloomer. Even long before I was diagnosed gifted, I was very anti-social. I have always been, and still am a loner. Is there something wrong with me? maybe, but I don't think it has anything to do with my anti-social tendencies. Everyone is made different. Some more different then others, but we live in a world were everyone and everything are forced into these molds which no one quite fits. You don't need to teach kids how to think for themselves, they're born with it. You just need to recognize your own bias and not teach him to think like you. And while your at it maybe you can unlearn the rest of us so we can think for ourselves again. Kids, especially one as bright as this can figure out a lot more than you think. Though it's probably to late, you don't need to teach him anything, or guide him for that matter, just provide the resources, and try to expose him to as much of life as you can. He'll come up with the questions, you just need to point him in the direction of the answers. But if it is too late, and the bias of those around him have forced them in the direction of science (don't get me wrong, I love science. I myself am strange and unusual.... sorry, got caught in a movie quote.... I myself am a technophile, a cumputer geek) then you should at least make sure they understand the full consequences of their intelligence. In other words, hopefully they will realize that they have a social resposibility, not just a employee responsibility, and won't go and invent the next atom bomb or biological weapon. You may want to leave a copy of the book Eath by David Brin on the nightstand. In the book, a genius level scientist creates a quantum singularity (an ity bitty black hole) the lab gets recked and it falls into the earth were it begins slowly devoring the earths core and growing larger. The moral of the story folks is that all science has it's risks and far too few of our brilliant minds consider them. anyway... along with some good fiction books, classic lit and mythology.... you may want to leave some Chompsky or Zin (People's History of the US) laying around. Don't force them to read anything. Just make it available. Their natural curiousity will direct them. But remember, they can't learn something that's not available to them. Recognise your own bias as a tutor. Realize that even if you aren't a natural parent (which is unknown and irrelevant) you still hold a parental role and thus responsibility. Make sure you aren't their only sourse of knowledge. You're raising a child, not a clone. All that said... I bid you ado... kevin "Being the same is easy"

Teach Him Design , Process, and Teamwork

[stumbler]

Teach him the OOAD development process. Teach him to analyze specifications, and talk with others to define requirements. Teach him to design an application and break it into pieces so that others (that are not of his intellect) can understand what to do, and contribute to his work. Teach him teamwork, and teach how to work with real people (both techies and non-techies) as he tries to define and create an application. Tony!!

everyone, please read that post!

[EmperorPhreak!]

i'm the same way(not near as smart, but still a prodigy), right now, i'm only 17, but everyone i know thinks of me as the techie genius; and my parents talk about this 'potential' all the time, Eneff is right, the P word can hurt you, i've all ready reached the rebellius stage of this. my grades in school have droped conciderably, and i'm just starting to ignore the P word.

Avoiding the question?

[TheInternet]

I just skimmed through the 709 comments on this page. The odd thing is that most or all of the ones that got modded up centered around the idea of "forget programming, teach him to be a good human being." It's good to know there are people out there with their priorities straight, but it does completely miss the question at a hand. How would you feel if took a Java course and the instructor just lectured you about morality all day long? Personally, I'd be pretty frustrated.

From reading the story into, it seems very clear to me that this person has an opportunity to tutor this child prodigy in technology, not humanity 101. That appears to be why the kid came to this individual in the first place. His parents are responsible for raising him. This person's responsibility is teaching him about programming. If other life lessons come up along the way, so be it. But he probably wouldn't be asking for advice on that at Slashdot. :)

- Scott

------
Scott Stevenson

QuickBasic is still there

[damiangerous]

Even as recently as the early '90s QuickBasic was there if you knew enough to look for it.

It's part of the standard install on the NT 4 machine I'm writing this on. I don't have a 9x box handy to check, but I'll bet it's there too.

Re:QuickBasic is still there

[MaxQuordlepleen]

It's part of the standard install on the NT 4 machine I'm writing this on. I don't have a 9x box handy to check, but I'll bet it's there too.

I guess NT isn't technically EARLY 90's but it's gone as of Windows 2000 (At least the only machine I had handy to check - Windows 2000 Server). I'd imagine it's probably there somewhere in Win95, yes.

Re:Just say no to 'cutting edge technology'

[BlueFrog]

I have to second this opinion.

Any specifics you teach him are likely to hinder his understanding of the 'meta-programming'. Go heavy on design patterns, fundamentals of programming languages. Abstract your teaching just like you would good code. I.E., Don't teach him C. Teach him about programming languages, then show him how C fits into that. In one lesson, you've taught him C, and given him the (very very basic) foundations of compiler-writing.

And more importantly, Do not let anyone (especially himself) shut him away from the world. His parents may think it's best, and he may feel that it's easier to talk to computers than to people. Always remember that no matter how brilliant he may be (and become), the code he writes is not as important as a happy life.

A child prodigy? Wow

[LordOfYourPants]

Let's teach him Linux first to topple the evil Microsoft! Can we build a Beowulf cluster of him? I hope this posting gets through, my computer seems to be lagging while my thinkgeek purchase of the "First Post!" clipboard is being processed.

Dr. Uhlenbeck Re:Charisma

[StandardDeviant]

D'oh. :-) I should have but I forgot (the link). One interesting /.-esque tidbit about her is that she doesn't use a regular, stand-alone machine, instead having one of the last X-Terminals (19", color) in the dept. becuase she didn't like the noise level of an ordinary machine. (<-- from the pwr supply fan, hard disk(s), cpu fan, etc. etc.) I worked in the math dept. as an assistant systems dude for ~9 months in '99, and one of the things I remember us talking about was trying to find a more powerful system for her that was zero or near zero noise.

--

Re:Dr. Uhlenbeck Re:Charisma

[denshi]

Is this Mike Jackson? Or Willie?

Re:Dr. Uhlenbeck Re:Charisma

[StandardDeviant]

Is Mike. :^)

--

Re:Dr. Uhlenbeck Re:Charisma

[denshi]

Well graduate, godammit!

Start from the beginning

[kryzx]

The best approach is to start from the beginning. And by that I mean learn about computers and computer science in a chronological order. Every idea, technology, and algorithm that has been created, invented, or developed came about for a reason and in an environment and context which is essential to understanding the thing itself.

In computer science, much like math, each concept is built upon the preceding concepts. It is difficult, sometimes impossible, to fully understand one concept if you are missing even one of the many concepts upon which it is founded.

So start before computers. Learn about the people who imagined such things, Turing, mechanical adding machines. Learn about the need for better adding machines. Learn about the switches and electronics that existed at that time. Then study the first computers, and the people who created them. Which ideas failed, which succeeded? What codes did they use to run their machines? What practical uses were those machines put to?

The people who ran those machines needed easier ways to run them, and to create programs, so they built tools for themselves, OS's, programming languages. You can study how each of these developed, which ones made it and which didn't, and how the former evolved.

Then transistors came along. Get into how the transistor was created, and how it revolutionized computers.

You get the idea.

A historical approach is the only way to get a real understanding of the field, and it provides a multitude of technical topics and exercises. The student could think through each of the problems that the creators of these technologies faced, and compare their own results with those of their predecessors. What you end up with is not only an understanding of what we have now, but of how we got here, how these things developed, what their original purpose was, and how they evolved.

cutting edge? child genius?

[samantha]

First make sure this fine and very curious young mind is well grounded in science(including computer science naturally) and mathematics. Bring in cutting edge stuff to whet the appetite, especially things like nanotech and molecular electronics and so on. But make very sure that the fundamentals are sound. They are the tools for mastering and appreciating the rest.

Second, make sure to expose this kid to a LOT of very bright and knowledgeable professors, teachers, scientists, engineers and a smattering of curmudgeons. Also as many other really bright kids as you can find. You won't be able to fill such a mind totally by yourself.

Third, in computers make sure the grounding in OS theory, basics and so on is there before going to something esoteric. I would recommend teaching a very high level and yet simple language first like Scheme. Then do workhorses like C, C++, Java. Throw in some smalltalk. Season with AI. Show the power of agent systems and distributed computing.

You probably got enough answers already

[hairychest]

Well I know it is over ambitous but give him a look at particle/quantum physics.

As an electronic engineer & a Linux for s390 developer, I've come to realise I'd know more
about electronics if I learned particle/quantum physics first & got a bottom up view on the subject, this knowledge can be applied to several other sciences chemistry & biology are based on this.

Richard Feynman as well as helping build the
atomic bomb ( which he probably isn't too proud of ), also learned enough biology in 3 weeks to make genuine contributions to the science & aid in the discovery of how DNA folds, it is just such a fundamental science.

Maybe he will invent an anti gravity device before I get round to building one in my spare time :-).

Go with what he is comfortable with

[Cable]

If he wants Java and Assembly, try to teach him that but first teach him the concepts of programming. The flowcharts, the pseduo-code, the basic design, the user interface, etc.

Use Microsoft as a bad example of writing code because of how complex and buggy it gets. Teach him how to trap for errors and how to provide user friendly error messages.

Teach him procedural programming before you teach him object oriented programming so he can learn the difference.

Please don't let him become a "Script-Kiddie". :)

Please do teach him to be responsible for his own code. Teach him how to document it so that others can work with it.

Re:Horsefeathers. *rolls eyes*

[drinkypoo]

Now I'm older I notice the difference - I still don't fit in and I know now that its not because I'm better than everyone else its because i'm worse - I'm a social animal with no social skills.....

You mean, you're a herd animal with your own ideas. They're commonly seen as the same thing.