This is retarded. The reason I suggested you USE JavaScript over the others is that you can't fuck up your computer. And you suggest three languages that really COULD screw up a computer, the reason given that "no browsers come with a decent JavaScript reference?" Name one browser that comes with a good Perl reference. Shit, Perl doesn't even come with a good perl reference!
I love Python, but I would NEVER tell somebody to learn how to program on it. Perl neither, they're way too esoteric syntactically while abstracting important programatic structures like types and so on. It'd be like learning how to paint by copying a Picasso, or learning engines by field stripping a Cessna. And PHP? PHP requires so much knowledge --how a webserver works, how HTML works, how to set up apache for script execution -- before it can even be approached that I'm just going to assume that you didn't think before typing, those four languages are TERRIBLE for beginners. Though insanely useful for amateurs.
There are some wonderful things on Sun Java that you can't do in MS Java.
Another dumb statement. Before development was halted on it, MS Java *WAS* Sun Java, only a lot more flexible. That's why Sun sued...here they were, developing a great little cross platform VM language, and Microsoft had to go and write a utility that would compile it into native code! The nerve! I remember writing an NT service in Java, and being amazed that it was actually easier than writing one in C.
Yes, I hate it when programmers take it upon themselves to do their own marketting. Java is FULL of that shit. Maybe I don't WANT to debug the Realmuse EJBs embedded in a TagLib of a JSP compiled to a Servlet to run on the Catalina engine of Tomcat. Maybe I just want to write a fucking web application in Java!
Incidentally, what you're missing is Wend in place of Loop. Might want to add contect to the Echo command as well (sticking a WScript. in front of it is a good way)
Well, there are a number of free and easy ways to learn programming these days. Javascript is a good one, available whereever there's a browser and able to perform some mighty tricks without fucking up your computer. VBScript is another, "point and click" be damned, you can do some powerful shit once you get cooking in VBS and it's generally more programming language than most people want!
And there's always Java, which is not only free, but also is a world class language for everything from internet servers to complex GUIs, with some great tools and even better literature. That's my language of choice for newbies...takes a bit more coaxing to get them to open their heads to it, but once they do...there's no shutting them again.
Uh, the progression is never this simple, man. Yes, syntactically, Java borrows from C and C++ heavily. But it's never so simple as X then Y then Z. Java borrows from everything -- inheriting from Object looks a lot like Objective-C, but calling instance methods looks a lot more like C++. And the concept of the Virtual Machine has a lot more in common with VB than it does with compiled, self executing, self managed languages.
Similarily, C# borrows from both Java and C. It's not the end point of either. In fact, since people are still writing -- and revising -- C, Obj C, C++, Java, C#, BASIC and Visual Basic, you can't say any of them BECOME any of the others. They're each of them still their own thing.
Oh yeah? Wait until you see VB.NET. That makes me want to Weep AndAlso Scream OrElse Not IsNothing(MyCSharpSkills)
"Nothing" drives me up a wall, it's goddamn null you assholes! As do modifiers like Shared (aka static), Overridable (aka virtual), Shadows (aka new), MyBase, Me and MustOverride (aka abstract). In fact, were it not for these inscruitably obnoxious naming conventions, VB.NET would be a pretty awesome language. Sadly, it falls into the same trap as the user interface of XP: trying to solve usability issues by using more (and bigger) words. Hey guys, if you don't understand the concept behind an internal method, calling it a "Friend" method isn't going to help. At best, all you're doing is confusing those of us who already know what an internal method is (and think of a friend method as something completely different!)
Windows shipped with a free basic interpreter (sadly, those days are over)
Au contraire. Open Notepad. Type in:
Dim message message = "Hello World!" WScript.Echo message
Save it as Hello.vbs. Then, double click on it. Your program will be loaded and interpreted by the Windows Scripting Host, a batch processing system that's been available for Windows since 1998 and installed by default as of 1999. It allocates a variable called message, assigns the string "Hello World!" to that variable, and then passes the Variable to a static function of the globally available object WScript, which echos the message to the screen.
This works in ME and 2k, might work in XP as well (though hopefully they locked it down). VBScript is just one language used by WSH (JScript is another, and plug ins exist for Perl, Python, Ruby, etc). WSH offers programs written in these languages access to any and all COM objects, which gives access to most Windows functionality. It's goddamn powerful...which is why it's used by such deadly viruses.
I always thought that what he meant was that after using BASIC you're not likely to put up with time wasting drudgery bullshit like manual memory management, char arrays, or pointers.
"You mean I have to do all this work to add "Hello " to "world!" and print it out? And that's real programming?"
Actually, VB.NET has a pretty nice set of features, including some impressive ones that C# does not (mostly to preserve/fake compatibility with VB6).
Some of these include the With statement (changes the context of local code, foregoing the drudgery of typing object.blah.blah.thingiwanttoset), WithEvents (handles event delegates based on a variable, not on the object it's pointing to, allowing you to switch what you're working on without removing and adding handlers) and optional variables in method signatures (which compile to overloaded methods anyway, but with less code).
Now if only I didn't feel like such an idiot CODING in it, it might be useful (hint: getting rid of the underscore to pass on to a new line is a start). I'd estimate that doing my last project in C# rather than VB put me about a month off track...but mostly because Visual Inheritance between VB and C# is busted in VS.NET 2002 (and the keyhandlers in inherited forms are busted in VS.NET 2003).
I would gladly take a Gin hangover over a Beam hangover any day of the week. For some reason, an evening spent sipping Beam leaves me feeling like I'm glancing idly through the foggy window of my own life and finding it to be pretty boring. I'll take a nice whopping headache over that any day.
neither Apple or the MPAA has a "right" to prevent utilities to destroy their ineffective and truly unworkable "drm" systems from working
Actually, they do have that right. It was granted by the DMCA and that part of the law yet to be proven unconstitutional. It may never be, for the same reason that bans on assault rifles and public obscenity are upheld: there are other ways to protect the essence of the rights granted by the constitution while still protecting the rights and wishes of others.
In short: your rights are protected, but you don't have to be a dick about it. You can protect your home with a shotgun instead of an AK. You can say "fornicate" instead of "fuck." And you can back up your itunes sons, or re-rip the backups, as easily as you can use fairplay.
The constitution was purposefully vague, so that future generations wouldn't be tied down to loopholes in strict syntax. The rights granted by the Constitution override those imposed by legislation. And the DMCA has been tested and found unconstitutional in some respects -- Sklyarov comes to mind.
Hey, I feel you man. I got a free pair of pantyhose in the mail. But the effort of doing what needs to be done to convert them into sweatsocks and remove the "bad" parts so they don't squash my nuts is just too much.
BTW: I doubt that anybody at Apple is upset that you were too lazy to illegally remove their DRM protection so you could play them on an unsupported device. In fact, you might say that's the whole reason for putting the DRM on in the first place. It's good that you posted; now we know it works.
Why shouldn't software be illegal? Software is a way of performing repetetive tasks in an efficient, controlled manner. If the repetetive task you are performing are illegal, than so's the software.
I'd think this would be obvious.
Anyhow, the whole point of the Sklyarov case is that you can't lock somebody up for talking about algorithms. The precendent his case sets will make it more difficult to arrest anybody else under the same circumstances. Sklyarov was a big win for cryptographic discussion and the law; how can you complain about it when it worked out in our favor?
Hey, you're preaching to a guy who's almost solely a gin and tonic drunk. I've got about 3 liters of Bombay Sapphire in my freezer at any given time (buy a case at the duty free every year). Apple martinis were mentioned because it's the kind of girl-drink cocktail partiers thrive on.
Incidentally, when I do have martinis, I prefer them stirred with 1 part sweet vermouth to 3 parts gin (the tangier the better) and with a slice of lemon instead of the olive detritus. Is this okay?
Not really. DRM is a battle that neither side will "lose," they'll just keep fighting forever. There will be occasional victories on either side, but the result of the back and forth battle will be that, unless you keep up on your cracking software, the latest format will always be protected from the majority.
This is how it works with the gaming industry vs. crackers. Yes, game X is crackable by some, but not by most. And that's far better than leaving the format open to all.
This is a retarded ass argument. It's a bit like a burgler saying, "well, if you'd installed an open door on this side of the house, I wouldn't have had to break the window, mate!"
It's Apple's perogative to write software to play their files wherever they like. If it doesn't meet your needs, you're welcome to use a different player. What you're not welcome to do is break the law -- even a silly law like the DMCA -- and cry "fair use" while you're doing it.
Besides, Apple's already GOT an out for fair use...burn and rip! Shit, you can burn a CD of iTMS music and rip it back USING iTunes, with negligible quality loss. The whole point of "fair" use is that it allows you to use a work you purchased in your own way without opening the possibility for you to unfairly infringe on the owner's exclusive copyright. A slight quality drop is fair in my book -- now, HDTV on the other hand...
He didn't say hoity-toity, he said staid. Staid parties be the bomb yo. Hanging out all night on the veranda, chatting about minor investments and german cars, solemly flexing your priggish style to the thrill of genteel ladies...and let's not forget apple martinis!
Boy, I'll say. I'm all for government regulating big business, since every industry that the government has regulated so far has seen record profits until they were deregulated. At which point profits fell off big time. Look at the air industry! Look at cable! Look at the telephones!
Company A: We will display new ads! You cannot block them! Company B: Oh yeah? Well, we will block them! Company A: Oh snap? Well, we'll make a different kind you can't block! Company B: Ha! We block those too! Company A: Curses!
Your parody was too accurate. Good job. Assume my set and superset bullshit is a response to those other assholes instead.
Incidentally, I actually am a hypocrite, of the highest, most insidious order. I am the sort of hypocrite who changes his mind based on critical reasoning.
Yeah, actually, what I was saying is that tinkering in general makes good engineers. And that anti-circumevention laws only ban specific types of tinkering. That doesn't stop people from tinkering and becoming smarter engineers, just from tinkering in a specific way.
Despite all the regulations in the RF specturm, there are hundreds of great communications projects that you can build and tinker with. Doesn't mean you can build a 600W signal amp without a ham license -- or acheive the knowledge of how to build one without actually doing so!
In the set of slasdot users, there are a number of philosophical subsets. This hypocrisy you think you see is based on the intersections of these subsets.
Here are a few:
1) A lot of slashdotters want to protect their right to use content in a digital manner.
2) A lot of them are also "libertarians" who don't like needless laws or nuisance litigation.
3) A lot of slashdotters are consumate do-it-yourselfers.
4) A lot of slashdotters have a strong sense of online community.
5) A lot of slashdotters have a problem with corporations and think they have too much power in society and government.
6) And a lot of slashdotters "still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."
Combine 1, 2, 3 and 5 and you might think the RIAA enforcing copyright is a bad idea. Combine 1, 4, 5 and 6 and you might think enforcing the the GPL is a good idea. See? Different folks, different positions, and they aren't necessarily diametric.
Of course, i couldn't care less, as I'm securely in set 7 (likes Macintoshes). Which is a subset of group 6.
Well, in the case of a NETWORK, there are tons of reasons why your mp3s might go offline.
Like if they're on your buddy's laptop, and he takes it home at 5pm. Sure, you could put that on your big dumb storage drive...but that would break copyright;)
Wow, these numbers keep getting lower and lower, and more and more wrong. Sure, some musicians get totally fucked on their deal. But none of them make less than $.50 per CD sale, and most are in the $1 to $2 range.
Now, your numbers APPROACH being right if you include recoupment costs from that $.50. But remember, recoupment is like paying back an interest free loan. It's not like the labels are stealing money from people, they've ALREADY PAID them. An advance is a really great thing, it lets you focus on the album without having to bust your ass at a day job or work shows all week.
Still, the fact that some artists get screwed on major label deals does not mean that ALL artists will suddenly think $.35 from some Russian service they didn't ask to be on is a good thing. I mean, that same artist gets $1.20 from iTunes, and has an actual say in how the music gets used and marketed!
In fact, the only thing I can think that will come out of this is that American labels will stop marketing their artists in Russia altogether.
Slashdot Mirror
How about a 3d version of Logo?
That would be hella cool, moving cursors and simple objects through 3d space...
This is retarded. The reason I suggested you USE JavaScript over the others is that you can't fuck up your computer. And you suggest three languages that really COULD screw up a computer, the reason given that "no browsers come with a decent JavaScript reference?" Name one browser that comes with a good Perl reference. Shit, Perl doesn't even come with a good perl reference!
I love Python, but I would NEVER tell somebody to learn how to program on it. Perl neither, they're way too esoteric syntactically while abstracting important programatic structures like types and so on. It'd be like learning how to paint by copying a Picasso, or learning engines by field stripping a Cessna. And PHP? PHP requires so much knowledge --how a webserver works, how HTML works, how to set up apache for script execution -- before it can even be approached that I'm just going to assume that you didn't think before typing, those four languages are TERRIBLE for beginners. Though insanely useful for amateurs.
There are some wonderful things on Sun Java that you can't do in MS Java.
Another dumb statement. Before development was halted on it, MS Java *WAS* Sun Java, only a lot more flexible. That's why Sun sued...here they were, developing a great little cross platform VM language, and Microsoft had to go and write a utility that would compile it into native code! The nerve! I remember writing an NT service in Java, and being amazed that it was actually easier than writing one in C.
Yes, I hate it when programmers take it upon themselves to do their own marketting. Java is FULL of that shit. Maybe I don't WANT to debug the Realmuse EJBs embedded in a TagLib of a JSP compiled to a Servlet to run on the Catalina engine of Tomcat. Maybe I just want to write a fucking web application in Java!
Incidentally, what you're missing is Wend in place of Loop. Might want to add contect to the Echo command as well (sticking a WScript. in front of it is a good way)
Well, there are a number of free and easy ways to learn programming these days. Javascript is a good one, available whereever there's a browser and able to perform some mighty tricks without fucking up your computer. VBScript is another, "point and click" be damned, you can do some powerful shit once you get cooking in VBS and it's generally more programming language than most people want!
And there's always Java, which is not only free, but also is a world class language for everything from internet servers to complex GUIs, with some great tools and even better literature. That's my language of choice for newbies...takes a bit more coaxing to get them to open their heads to it, but once they do...there's no shutting them again.
Uh, the progression is never this simple, man. Yes, syntactically, Java borrows from C and C++ heavily. But it's never so simple as X then Y then Z. Java borrows from everything -- inheriting from Object looks a lot like Objective-C, but calling instance methods looks a lot more like C++. And the concept of the Virtual Machine has a lot more in common with VB than it does with compiled, self executing, self managed languages.
Similarily, C# borrows from both Java and C. It's not the end point of either. In fact, since people are still writing -- and revising -- C, Obj C, C++, Java, C#, BASIC and Visual Basic, you can't say any of them BECOME any of the others. They're each of them still their own thing.
Oh yeah? Wait until you see VB.NET. That makes me want to Weep AndAlso Scream OrElse Not IsNothing(MyCSharpSkills)
"Nothing" drives me up a wall, it's goddamn null you assholes! As do modifiers like Shared (aka static), Overridable (aka virtual), Shadows (aka new), MyBase, Me and MustOverride (aka abstract). In fact, were it not for these inscruitably obnoxious naming conventions, VB.NET would be a pretty awesome language. Sadly, it falls into the same trap as the user interface of XP: trying to solve usability issues by using more (and bigger) words. Hey guys, if you don't understand the concept behind an internal method, calling it a "Friend" method isn't going to help. At best, all you're doing is confusing those of us who already know what an internal method is (and think of a friend method as something completely different!)
Au contraire. Open Notepad. Type in:Save it as Hello.vbs. Then, double click on it. Your program will be loaded and interpreted by the Windows Scripting Host, a batch processing system that's been available for Windows since 1998 and installed by default as of 1999. It allocates a variable called message, assigns the string "Hello World!" to that variable, and then passes the Variable to a static function of the globally available object WScript, which echos the message to the screen.
This works in ME and 2k, might work in XP as well (though hopefully they locked it down). VBScript is just one language used by WSH (JScript is another, and plug ins exist for Perl, Python, Ruby, etc). WSH offers programs written in these languages access to any and all COM objects, which gives access to most Windows functionality. It's goddamn powerful...which is why it's used by such deadly viruses.
I always thought that what he meant was that after using BASIC you're not likely to put up with time wasting drudgery bullshit like manual memory management, char arrays, or pointers.
"You mean I have to do all this work to add "Hello " to "world!" and print it out? And that's real programming?"
Hence, Java, C#, perl, ruby...
Actually, VB.NET has a pretty nice set of features, including some impressive ones that C# does not (mostly to preserve/fake compatibility with VB6).
Some of these include the With statement (changes the context of local code, foregoing the drudgery of typing object.blah.blah.thingiwanttoset), WithEvents (handles event delegates based on a variable, not on the object it's pointing to, allowing you to switch what you're working on without removing and adding handlers) and optional variables in method signatures (which compile to overloaded methods anyway, but with less code).
Now if only I didn't feel like such an idiot CODING in it, it might be useful (hint: getting rid of the underscore to pass on to a new line is a start). I'd estimate that doing my last project in C# rather than VB put me about a month off track...but mostly because Visual Inheritance between VB and C# is busted in VS.NET 2002 (and the keyhandlers in inherited forms are busted in VS.NET 2003).
I would gladly take a Gin hangover over a Beam hangover any day of the week. For some reason, an evening spent sipping Beam leaves me feeling like I'm glancing idly through the foggy window of my own life and finding it to be pretty boring. I'll take a nice whopping headache over that any day.
neither Apple or the MPAA has a "right" to prevent utilities to destroy their ineffective and truly unworkable "drm" systems from working
Actually, they do have that right. It was granted by the DMCA and that part of the law yet to be proven unconstitutional. It may never be, for the same reason that bans on assault rifles and public obscenity are upheld: there are other ways to protect the essence of the rights granted by the constitution while still protecting the rights and wishes of others.
In short: your rights are protected, but you don't have to be a dick about it. You can protect your home with a shotgun instead of an AK. You can say "fornicate" instead of "fuck." And you can back up your itunes sons, or re-rip the backups, as easily as you can use fairplay.
The constitution was purposefully vague, so that future generations wouldn't be tied down to loopholes in strict syntax. The rights granted by the Constitution override those imposed by legislation. And the DMCA has been tested and found unconstitutional in some respects -- Sklyarov comes to mind.
Hey, I feel you man. I got a free pair of pantyhose in the mail. But the effort of doing what needs to be done to convert them into sweatsocks and remove the "bad" parts so they don't squash my nuts is just too much.
BTW: I doubt that anybody at Apple is upset that you were too lazy to illegally remove their DRM protection so you could play them on an unsupported device. In fact, you might say that's the whole reason for putting the DRM on in the first place. It's good that you posted; now we know it works.
Why shouldn't software be illegal? Software is a way of performing repetetive tasks in an efficient, controlled manner. If the repetetive task you are performing are illegal, than so's the software.
I'd think this would be obvious.
Anyhow, the whole point of the Sklyarov case is that you can't lock somebody up for talking about algorithms. The precendent his case sets will make it more difficult to arrest anybody else under the same circumstances. Sklyarov was a big win for cryptographic discussion and the law; how can you complain about it when it worked out in our favor?
Hey, you're preaching to a guy who's almost solely a gin and tonic drunk. I've got about 3 liters of Bombay Sapphire in my freezer at any given time (buy a case at the duty free every year). Apple martinis were mentioned because it's the kind of girl-drink cocktail partiers thrive on.
Incidentally, when I do have martinis, I prefer them stirred with 1 part sweet vermouth to 3 parts gin (the tangier the better) and with a slice of lemon instead of the olive detritus. Is this okay?
Not really. DRM is a battle that neither side will "lose," they'll just keep fighting forever. There will be occasional victories on either side, but the result of the back and forth battle will be that, unless you keep up on your cracking software, the latest format will always be protected from the majority.
This is how it works with the gaming industry vs. crackers. Yes, game X is crackable by some, but not by most. And that's far better than leaving the format open to all.
This is a retarded ass argument. It's a bit like a burgler saying, "well, if you'd installed an open door on this side of the house, I wouldn't have had to break the window, mate!"
It's Apple's perogative to write software to play their files wherever they like. If it doesn't meet your needs, you're welcome to use a different player. What you're not welcome to do is break the law -- even a silly law like the DMCA -- and cry "fair use" while you're doing it.
Besides, Apple's already GOT an out for fair use...burn and rip! Shit, you can burn a CD of iTMS music and rip it back USING iTunes, with negligible quality loss. The whole point of "fair" use is that it allows you to use a work you purchased in your own way without opening the possibility for you to unfairly infringe on the owner's exclusive copyright. A slight quality drop is fair in my book -- now, HDTV on the other hand...
He didn't say hoity-toity, he said staid. Staid parties be the bomb yo. Hanging out all night on the veranda, chatting about minor investments and german cars, solemly flexing your priggish style to the thrill of genteel ladies...and let's not forget apple martinis!
Boy, I'll say. I'm all for government regulating big business, since every industry that the government has regulated so far has seen record profits until they were deregulated. At which point profits fell off big time. Look at the air industry! Look at cable! Look at the telephones!
Face it, man, Adam Smith was only MOSTLY right.
Wow...it's like battle of the vaporware!
Company A: We will display new ads! You cannot block them!
Company B: Oh yeah? Well, we will block them!
Company A: Oh snap? Well, we'll make a different kind you can't block!
Company B: Ha! We block those too!
Company A: Curses!
Your parody was too accurate. Good job. Assume my set and superset bullshit is a response to those other assholes instead.
Incidentally, I actually am a hypocrite, of the highest, most insidious order. I am the sort of hypocrite who changes his mind based on critical reasoning.
Yeah, actually, what I was saying is that tinkering in general makes good engineers. And that anti-circumevention laws only ban specific types of tinkering. That doesn't stop people from tinkering and becoming smarter engineers, just from tinkering in a specific way.
Despite all the regulations in the RF specturm, there are hundreds of great communications projects that you can build and tinker with. Doesn't mean you can build a 600W signal amp without a ham license -- or acheive the knowledge of how to build one without actually doing so!
In the set of slasdot users, there are a number of philosophical subsets. This hypocrisy you think you see is based on the intersections of these subsets.
Here are a few:
1) A lot of slashdotters want to protect their right to use content in a digital manner.
2) A lot of them are also "libertarians" who don't like needless laws or nuisance litigation.
3) A lot of slashdotters are consumate do-it-yourselfers.
4) A lot of slashdotters have a strong sense of online community.
5) A lot of slashdotters have a problem with corporations and think they have too much power in society and government.
6) And a lot of slashdotters "still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."
Combine 1, 2, 3 and 5 and you might think the RIAA enforcing copyright is a bad idea. Combine 1, 4, 5 and 6 and you might think enforcing the the GPL is a good idea. See? Different folks, different positions, and they aren't necessarily diametric.
Of course, i couldn't care less, as I'm securely in set 7 (likes Macintoshes). Which is a subset of group 6.
Well, in the case of a NETWORK, there are tons of reasons why your mp3s might go offline.
;)
Like if they're on your buddy's laptop, and he takes it home at 5pm. Sure, you could put that on your big dumb storage drive...but that would break copyright
Wow, these numbers keep getting lower and lower, and more and more wrong. Sure, some musicians get totally fucked on their deal. But none of them make less than $.50 per CD sale, and most are in the $1 to $2 range.
Now, your numbers APPROACH being right if you include recoupment costs from that $.50. But remember, recoupment is like paying back an interest free loan. It's not like the labels are stealing money from people, they've ALREADY PAID them. An advance is a really great thing, it lets you focus on the album without having to bust your ass at a day job or work shows all week.
Still, the fact that some artists get screwed on major label deals does not mean that ALL artists will suddenly think $.35 from some Russian service they didn't ask to be on is a good thing. I mean, that same artist gets $1.20 from iTunes, and has an actual say in how the music gets used and marketed!
In fact, the only thing I can think that will come out of this is that American labels will stop marketing their artists in Russia altogether.