This is certanly intresting, but one of the things that bugs me about devices like this, and web TV and such is that they "lock out" the stuff that makes it a computer.
I mean, would it be so bad to include say, one button that lets you access the bash shell or somthing?
It's not so much systems like the TiVo, but the cheap "web boxes" that don't run windows. Instaid of somthing that someone could learn somthing about comptuers on, they are given somthing that can only be used for one thing. I guess what bothers me is the idea of a device being sold as 'single purpose' when it's actualy a general purpose computer. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
geez, you guys are as bad as the Mac people. Now the linux kernel can do this to. We all know FreeBSD can access 4gb of memory. Who cares? "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
it's a good thing that this was an AC post, it's a lot easyer to loose karma then it is to get it back. This is may be the real reason linux dosn't support large memory models.... (or didn't) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Is this really flamebait? Sure it's a little ungramatical, and a little offtopic... and a little technicaly incorect, but still. It was just an anit-mac rant. Hopefully meta-modereation will take care of this. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I had heard news/rumors that Apple has been designing their OS and PCs to not need the bootrom, with the advent of MacOS X. Is this true, can anyone confirm, acknowledge, or speculate?
Well, I can't confirm, or acknowledge, but I sure as hell can speculate. As far I know, a computer *can't* boot up without some kind of boot ROM. What the boot ROM does, is store a program that the CPU runs when it first turns on. The CPU sees the ROM as a piece of RAM at address zero (remember, ROM is actually a type of RAM). The CPU then executes this code. On a PC it initializes the motherboard, checks RAM and then loads the first 100 bytes(not exactly sure about the number) off the hard drive and into memory and jumps to it (tells the CPU to execute whatever commands it finds in that part of memory). This piece of code then loads more stuff of the hard drive (IE DOS, or Linux or Win NT bootloaders)
I'm not sure exactly what it does on a Mac, but I believe it's a bit more (IE loading enough of a filesystem to be able to read the system "suitcase" off the disk and other things (I used to make Mac boot disks to try and hack past Ames high's lame security))
So I don't see how Apple could possibly do this, unless they wanted to make special hardware to load stuff of the disk, but this would cost more money, and provide no benefit whatsoever. Anyway PC's use boot ROM (usually called the system BIOS, basic input output system), and they can load whatever OS you want. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Ok, motherboards last *a lot* longer then 6 months. Most boards can last for a few years, and still hold top of the line Chips. In fact most of the most popular boards For sale *today* were designed, and on sale over a year ago (when the 440bx chipset was released).
A friend of mine built a computer for his brother last fall (one year ago), I built a computer for a friend this fall, and we used the *exact* same Motherboard. the Abit BH6. Another friend who uses the same board (one of the most popular) upgraded his celeron 266 to a pIII 500. I also upgraded my PC from a Pentium 75 to a p200 without changing the motherboard (actually it wasn't the same board that I got with my computer, I got the board about 6 months before because it had a 1meg catch).
CPU's may not last that long, but PC boards do.
by the way, the selling price for an AT super7 board is $55, making the motherboard one of the *cheapest* components in the system. slot one's usually go for about $90 online (the bh6, anyway)
oh and one more thing, the BH6 is a "scaled down" version of the BX6, witch is even older.
could you at least *try* to get your facts strait before posting? Please? I am so sick of my platform of choice being bashed by uninformed Mac zelots "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Also, one of the main selling lines in the past for Macs have been that they last 25% longer than wintel machines because of upgradeability. Why would they change this? well, I'm using the same PC that I was in 1995, can you say that about your Mac? (it's a little out of date now, but for only about $120, I could give it some real speed). The fact is, all you have to do is swap that motherboard. *can* you even buy strait Mac motherboards?
btw, PC motherboards cos about $50 for AMD k6/origional pentium board, and and $90 for a slot one. cheaper then one or two new video games...
More apple BS, I see *sigh* that really irritates me:( "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
but you can get a cheap adaptor for slot1/socket 370.
there is no way to get around different physical specs for chips and such, would really want a CPU that had to fit in the 16-pin 8088 sockets?.
besides, motherboards don't really cost that much money, like $90 for a good Abit board "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
uh, faster chips *need* less voltage. my old p75 took 3 volts. some of the orgionals need 5, you can't really fault intell for that... Faster chips, need lower voltages. chirst. any motherboard with shit will let you chage the voltage. hell Abit boards let you chage the voltage in *software* "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Well, on a PC it would be easy, but, this is not a PC. PCs have had a standard boot procedure for the past 15 years or so. I believe it just loads the first 100 bytes of the disk. (witch in turn loads the OS, or more recently the OS loader).
On a mac however, there is no clear distinction of where the ROM ends and the OS begins. To make a Mac OS boot disk, all you need to do is put some certain files on it. So the boot ROM needs at least to know the Mac's file system...
In short, there would be no way for you to do it without analyzing the code on the ROM chips. And this might destroy the 'clean room' that you need for legal coverage. I'm sure it would be possible, but, much more difficult then for a PC. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
You can't have your computer next to your toaster, *and* your television at the same time, so how can the look good next to both. Also, it dosn't really matter if it looks good nex to your toaster, beacuse most people don't have there computer in the kitchen.
Some people are making kitchen computers (actualy, they have been for quite some time), but *those* don't need to look good next to your TV:) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
and I had -2 this morning:( even though the only posts I could see that had been moderated had been moderated up. *sigh* "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
The second time I read this question here, unbeliavable.. there were quadrophonic, true 4-channel LPs already in the 70s, and OF COURSE the 33 rpm LP format does stereo.
Well, I didn't know, that's why I asked. Also *how* does it work? are there multiple needles? some sort of Dolby-prologic type thing (I wouldn't think it would be posible in the 70's/80s). If it's multiple heads, how do you get the right head on the right grove?. I really do want to know how this works.
>There are over 65,000 sound levels available on a >CD (16 bit), they can produce any wave that a >record player can (and probably more)
Pardon?? Analog, by definition, means an infinite number of values/states. Cutting that down to a limited number can never produce "more".
Is that why a tape always sounds better then a CD? Analog sources will always have some degidation. The more degridation, the less of a 'eqivalent' samplerate/sample size they would have. As the needle moves up and down it will exsist in an infinet number of positions, however there is probably some limit as to what the human ear can tell the difrence between. I don't know if that number is more or less than 65,000.
>The only reason that anolog sounds better then >digital is people have convinced themselves of >it.
Haha, first this is simply nonsense, second it comes from someone who doesn't even know the obvious fact that LPs are stereo. You admit later in your post that early CDs were masterd poorly. This might have caused some problems with the orgional tests in the 80s "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
The first real programming I did was in C++ and Java with much object orientation, it is *NOT* a hard thing to understand in anyway, at all. The only people who have trouble with are people who are stuck in a procedural mindset, and stupid. (and believe me, there are *a lot* of stupid people in computer science).
Java is a very elegant and intuitive language. Also, I think we should be teaching OO from the start, so people don't have a hard time learning it later on.
The concepts aren't that hard, and with Java, neither is the coding. (though, going back to C++ from Java for a project was a bitch.) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I don't that meta-moderators can up or down the actual posts, just critique the actual moderation being done. Although I really don't know "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I think there needs to be a distinction between soft and hard anonymity. This new system by witch users can optionally have there usernames and sigs removed from there posts is what I would call 'soft' anonymity. Other slashdot regulars don't know who you are, but anyone with access to the slashdot system does. In general this would mean Rob, and anyone he entrusts the system to (Hemos? Nate?).
The thing is, however, that others can probably get to it as well. The US government could supena, or get warrant the records. Or, anyone who could hack into slashdot. While your average neighborhood 31337 $cr1pt k1ddy would probably never be able to do it, do you think the NSA couldn't? I believe that someone has slashdot before. (Not sure about this though)
If a whistle blower for some corp. wanted to post anonymously, the corporation could ether supena Andover for the information, or hire a 'real' hacker to breakin. Andover may be a great company to work for, but do you think they would stand up in court to defend an AC? Do you think that slashdot secure enough to trust your job?
My solution to this is what I call 'hard' moderation. Once you post, all information connecting you to the post is removed from the system, completely. Database fields, IP logs, everything. A hacker would have to catch you, amongst all the traffic to and from slashdot in order to find your identity, and there would be nothing for lawyers to get.
Obviously the potential for abuse could be great with a system like this. 'i hate stevens' type people would be able to post without any sort of accountability (witch is what all this work of Rob's is trying to create here). Perhaps if it became a problem (IE most of the abuse comes from hard ACs) we could make it difficult to post as such. (IE, requiring that it passes through a moderator before it appears on the page)
While the CIA stuff was interesting, that organization clearly doesn't really care about security. A post in that same thread mentioned that the most period company that the poster had ever worked with was Archer Daniels Midland. How far would ADM go to plug a leak? Who knows, but I think that while we are making all these suggestions, Hard anonymity should get thrown in there as well:) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I'm sure there would be some sort of ability to 'skip' it, or somthing. It wouldn't take that much time, and you can probably opt-out if you want. (like the current moderation system) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
In a way, moderators regulate other moderators already. If a post is marked down unfairly, other moderators will come along and mark it back up.
The problem with this is that moderators have a certain number of 'points' (witch are based somewhat on karma, I believe). If a moderator has to 'unmodreate' then moderation points are wasted. Ones that could be used to mark up good posts or kill bad ones. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
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This is certanly intresting, but one of the things that bugs me about devices like this, and web TV and such is that they "lock out" the stuff that makes it a computer.
I mean, would it be so bad to include say, one button that lets you access the bash shell or somthing?
It's not so much systems like the TiVo, but the cheap "web boxes" that don't run windows. Instaid of somthing that someone could learn somthing about comptuers on, they are given somthing that can only be used for one thing. I guess what bothers me is the idea of a device being sold as 'single purpose' when it's actualy a general purpose computer.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
geez, you guys are as bad as the Mac people. Now the linux kernel can do this to. We all know FreeBSD can access 4gb of memory. Who cares?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
it's a good thing that this was an AC post, it's a lot easyer to loose karma then it is to get it back. This is may be the real reason linux dosn't support large memory models.... (or didn't)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
since linux can't run with more then 960 megs....
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Is this really flamebait? Sure it's a little ungramatical, and a little offtopic... and a little technicaly incorect, but still. It was just an anit-mac rant. Hopefully meta-modereation will take care of this.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I had heard news/rumors that Apple has been designing their OS and PCs to not need the bootrom, with the advent of MacOS X. Is this true, can anyone confirm, acknowledge, or speculate?
Well, I can't confirm, or acknowledge, but I sure as hell can speculate. As far I know, a computer *can't* boot up without some kind of boot ROM. What the boot ROM does, is store a program that the CPU runs when it first turns on. The CPU sees the ROM as a piece of RAM at address zero (remember, ROM is actually a type of RAM). The CPU then executes this code. On a PC it initializes the motherboard, checks RAM and then loads the first 100 bytes(not exactly sure about the number) off the hard drive and into memory and jumps to it (tells the CPU to execute whatever commands it finds in that part of memory). This piece of code then loads more stuff of the hard drive (IE DOS, or Linux or Win NT bootloaders)
I'm not sure exactly what it does on a Mac, but I believe it's a bit more (IE loading enough of a filesystem to be able to read the system "suitcase" off the disk and other things (I used to make Mac boot disks to try and hack past Ames high's lame security))
So I don't see how Apple could possibly do this, unless they wanted to make special hardware to load stuff of the disk, but this would cost more money, and provide no benefit whatsoever. Anyway PC's use boot ROM (usually called the system BIOS, basic input output system), and they can load whatever OS you want.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Ok, motherboards last *a lot* longer then 6 months. Most boards can last for a few years, and still hold top of the line Chips. In fact most of the most popular boards For sale *today* were designed, and on sale over a year ago (when the 440bx chipset was released).
A friend of mine built a computer for his brother last fall (one year ago), I built a computer for a friend this fall, and we used the *exact* same Motherboard. the Abit BH6. Another friend who uses the same board (one of the most popular) upgraded his celeron 266 to a pIII 500. I also upgraded my PC from a Pentium 75 to a p200 without changing the motherboard (actually it wasn't the same board that I got with my computer, I got the board about 6 months before because it had a 1meg catch).
CPU's may not last that long, but PC boards do.
by the way, the selling price for an AT super7 board is $55, making the motherboard one of the *cheapest* components in the system. slot one's usually go for about $90 online (the bh6, anyway)
oh and one more thing, the BH6 is a "scaled down" version of the BX6, witch is even older.
could you at least *try* to get your facts strait before posting? Please? I am so sick of my platform of choice being bashed by uninformed Mac zelots
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Also, one of the main selling lines in the past for Macs have been that they last 25% longer than wintel machines because of upgradeability. Why would they change this? well, I'm using the same PC that I was in 1995, can you say that about your Mac? (it's a little out of date now, but for only about $120, I could give it some real speed). The fact is, all you have to do is swap that motherboard. *can* you even buy strait Mac motherboards?
:(
btw, PC motherboards cos about $50 for AMD k6/origional pentium board, and and $90 for a slot one. cheaper then one or two new video games...
More apple BS, I see *sigh* that really irritates me
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
but you can get a cheap adaptor for slot1/socket 370.
there is no way to get around different physical specs for chips and such, would really want a CPU that had to fit in the 16-pin 8088 sockets?.
besides, motherboards don't really cost that much money, like $90 for a good Abit board
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
uh, faster chips *need* less voltage. my old p75 took 3 volts. some of the orgionals need 5, you can't really fault intell for that... Faster chips, need lower voltages. chirst. any motherboard with shit will let you chage the voltage. hell Abit boards let you chage the voltage in *software*
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Well, on a PC it would be easy, but, this is not a PC. PCs have had a standard boot procedure for the past 15 years or so. I believe it just loads the first 100 bytes of the disk. (witch in turn loads the OS, or more recently the OS loader).
On a mac however, there is no clear distinction of where the ROM ends and the OS begins. To make a Mac OS boot disk, all you need to do is put some certain files on it. So the boot ROM needs at least to know the Mac's file system...
In short, there would be no way for you to do it without analyzing the code on the ROM chips. And this might destroy the 'clean room' that you need for legal coverage. I'm sure it would be possible, but, much more difficult then for a PC.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
and you suck
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
You can't have your computer next to your toaster, *and* your television at the same time, so how can the look good next to both. Also, it dosn't really matter if it looks good nex to your toaster, beacuse most people don't have there computer in the kitchen.
:)
Some people are making kitchen computers (actualy, they have been for quite some time), but *those* don't need to look good next to your TV
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I'm posting, but I don't see this 'magic checkbox' thing.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
and I had -2 this morning :( even though the only posts I could see that had been moderated had been moderated up. *sigh*
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
The second time I read this question here, unbeliavable.. there were quadrophonic, true 4-channel LPs already in the 70s, and OF COURSE the 33 rpm LP format does stereo.
Well, I didn't know, that's why I asked. Also *how* does it work? are there multiple needles? some sort of Dolby-prologic type thing (I wouldn't think it would be posible in the 70's/80s). If it's multiple heads, how do you get the right head on the right grove?. I really do want to know how this works.
>There are over 65,000 sound levels available on a >CD (16 bit), they can produce any wave that a >record player can (and probably more)
Pardon?? Analog, by definition, means an infinite number of values/states. Cutting that down to a limited number can never produce "more".
Is that why a tape always sounds better then a CD? Analog sources will always have some degidation. The more degridation, the less of a 'eqivalent' samplerate/sample size they would have. As the needle moves up and down it will exsist in an infinet number of positions, however there is probably some limit as to what the human ear can tell the difrence between. I don't know if that number is more or less than 65,000.
>The only reason that anolog sounds better then >digital is people have convinced themselves of >it.
Haha, first this is simply nonsense, second it comes from someone who doesn't even know the obvious fact that LPs are stereo.
You admit later in your post that early CDs were masterd poorly. This might have caused some problems with the orgional tests in the 80s
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I *think*. perhaps things will be made clearer for us
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
The first real programming I did was in C++ and Java with much object orientation, it is *NOT* a hard thing to understand in anyway, at all. The only people who have trouble with are people who are stuck in a procedural mindset, and stupid. (and believe me, there are *a lot* of stupid people in computer science).
Java is a very elegant and intuitive language. Also, I think we should be teaching OO from the start, so people don't have a hard time learning it later on.
The concepts aren't that hard, and with Java, neither is the coding. (though, going back to C++ from Java for a project was a bitch.)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I mean, it's not *that* great
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Then why do you even have an acount?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I don't that meta-moderators can up or down the actual posts, just critique the actual moderation being done. Although I really don't know
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
just wondering :)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I think there needs to be a distinction between soft and hard anonymity. This new system by witch users can optionally have there usernames and sigs removed from there posts is what I would call 'soft' anonymity. Other slashdot regulars don't know who you are, but anyone with access to the slashdot system does. In general this would mean Rob, and anyone he entrusts the system to (Hemos? Nate?).
:)
The thing is, however, that others can probably get to it as well. The US government could supena, or get warrant the records. Or, anyone who could hack into slashdot. While your average neighborhood 31337 $cr1pt k1ddy would probably never be able to do it, do you think the NSA couldn't? I believe that someone has slashdot before. (Not sure about this though)
If a whistle blower for some corp. wanted to post anonymously, the corporation could ether supena Andover for the information, or hire a 'real' hacker to breakin. Andover may be a great company to work for, but do you think they would stand up in court to defend an AC? Do you think that slashdot secure enough to trust your job?
My solution to this is what I call 'hard' moderation. Once you post, all information connecting you to the post is removed from the system, completely. Database fields, IP logs, everything. A hacker would have to catch you, amongst all the traffic to and from slashdot in order to find your identity, and there would be nothing for lawyers to get.
Obviously the potential for abuse could be great with a system like this. 'i hate stevens' type people would be able to post without any sort of accountability (witch is what all this work of Rob's is trying to create here). Perhaps if it became a problem (IE most of the abuse comes from hard ACs) we could make it difficult to post as such. (IE, requiring that it passes through a moderator before it appears on the page)
While the CIA stuff was interesting, that organization clearly doesn't really care about security. A post in that same thread mentioned that the most period company that the poster had ever worked with was Archer Daniels Midland. How far would ADM go to plug a leak? Who knows, but I think that while we are making all these suggestions, Hard anonymity should get thrown in there as well
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I'm sure there would be some sort of ability to 'skip' it, or somthing. It wouldn't take that much time, and you can probably opt-out if you want. (like the current moderation system)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
In a way, moderators regulate other moderators already. If a post is marked down unfairly, other moderators will come along and mark it back up.
The problem with this is that moderators have a certain number of 'points' (witch are based somewhat on karma, I believe). If a moderator has to 'unmodreate' then moderation points are wasted. Ones that could be used to mark up good posts or kill bad ones.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"