except if you read TFA, it's clear the author asked about it and was told it was a "food safety issue" which he checked on and found to be untrue
Ice is not dispensed by one person. It's dispensed by lots of volunteers at 3 different locations every day during the event over many years. I'm sure some probably do think it's a government rule. Not every volunteer is perfectly informed. This isn't relevant to the point that I am making about you.
again...you ARE indeed proving my point, that Burners like you who over-mystify something just to feel 'cool' and 'in the know' are the problem, pasted below from my OP comment:
Why are you trying to pretend to know about things that you don't? Are you just trying to feel "cool"?
Regardless of whether you like me or I like you, the fact is that I AM in the know (at least much more than you), because I actually witnessed the phenomenon in question. Normally there can be some debate over whether "experts" actually know anymore. I am not even claiming to be an expert. I am claiming that you know next to nothing, and the experience that I have (which I am not suggesting is comprehensive), as WAY MORE than what you have (which is none).
...the problem with this system is that Burning Man as an event encourages this superiority complex mentality
Not only does Burning man as an event not encourage this, but stating facts is not evidence of a superiority complex.
My advice to you is to know at least a little about a subject before trying to feign expertise. Or better yet, don't even try to feign expertise. It is possible to have a discussion about something without pretending to be an expert on it.
those who do, do because it's the right thing to do, they don't have the time to worry about what you may think of them.
Putting little words on engraved cogs and gears is still an attempt to get credit in the eyes of someone, it's just God rather than other human beings.
I think putting little words on cogs and gears is like donating to a charity anonymously and then hiring someone to out you as the generous donor.
And if it was a man, he'd find refuge in audacity [tvtropes.org] and just get to be a trolling asshole. The people hating him would only add to his mystique.
What planet is this actually happening on?
Women can't do that, but they can play on paternalism to make you feel sorry for them. Kind of a sad trade, if you ask me.
I guess if you wanted to, you could reward female trolls and add to their "mystique", to try to help them catch up to all the mystique that male trolls have amassed over the years.
Yeah don't do it for credit from mere mortals. That's for chumps. Do it for credit from God, because getting into heaven is the real way to win at life.
Ignoring the sexist nature of your comment for a moment, do you think we should simply stop trying to protect anyone from harassment and bullying because clearly it's their own fault for being sensitive to their disability/skin colour/nationality/etc? You are just blaming the victim here.
Is it even possible to offer any kind of analysis of why people become victims or suggestions of how to prevent it without being accused of victim blaming?
Is every self defense class a giant example of victim blaming because it doesn't place 100% of the responsibility on a would be assailant?
Are home security systems an example of victim blaming because people have a right not to be burglarized and security systems only perpetuate the victim blaming mentality that it is your own responsibility to prevent home invasions?
I agree there is such a thing as victim blaming, but I think frivolous accusations of victim blaming just dis-empowers efforts to point out real examples of victim blaming.
I think claim was that you would be an asshole if you constantly patrolled gamergate discussions and repeated what you just said, every chance you got. The idea being, that if you actually didn't care about gamer gate, then you would be off doing more important things like saving the world rather than wasting your time showing off your gamergate trump card to anyone who will listen.
Group A: People who think gamers/games are sexist.
Group B: People who do not think gamers/games are sexist.
Group C: People who send death threats to people in Group A.
You can be on more than one group. There are definitely some people who are in both B and C. This does not mean that A is right and B is wrong.
A democrat sending you a death threat does not mean republicans are right about anything.
Face it, there positively without any doubt is a vile and disgusting segment of gamer culture
There is a vile disgusting segment of just about every culture, why should gaming be held to any higher standard?
Shooting guns is entertaining. That seems to be a legitimate enough reason. Maybe this isn't a good enough reason to allow rocket launchers given the danger they would likely pose, but entertainment is not an illegitimate reason.
false choice....it's not a binary...it's not a choice between only either a) not volunteer or b) get ice slowly and not improve the system
I never implied anything was binary. There are many choices. They could care a lot, they could care a little, or they could not care at all, and everything in between. What I suggested was that they at least care enough to volunteer.
It was you who suggested the extreme option that they don't care at all.
the volunteers should try TFA's idea without a big hassle or drama...they should WELCOME a solution that makes it faster...and so should YOU
I'm sure they have tried it, along with lots of other ideas. Burning man is a place with a lot of smart people continuously trying new ideas. I am not saying that the process can't be improved. I am saying that the characterization of the current process by the OP is not accurate. The workers are already working in parallel, so getting the ice after the order is made doesn't slow anything down as long as it isn't slower than the transaction of money on average.
I think there probably exists even better ways of doing the ice line than what Bennett suggests. Some of those suggestions occurred right in this comments section. As someone who has personally witnessed the ice line several times over 6 years, and as a software engineer with 10 years experience, I can confidently say that Bennett's assessment of the problem and his solution are flawed.
You really are continuing to prove my point with all this
But that's not even what this is about. What this is about is someone (you) who *really* has no fucking clue what he's talking about, trying to pretend like he does. At least Bennett has been to burning man once, and is trying to make things better (along with most people who go to burning man).
You are someone who (I will assume) has been to burning man 0 times, who has heard how the ice line works from someone who has been once.
There are some douchebags at burning man. Most of the people are really intelligent, thoughtful and kind. Labelling volunteers you've never met, at an event you've never been to, as douchebags makes you a douchebag.
If you ever come to burning man. Please don't be a douchebag.
doesn't matter if they're volunteers...but thanks for confirming for everyone that my first point was accurate, while simultaneously *contributing nothing* to the actual conversation
I don't see how anything I said lead to anything being more mystified.
So, how does the fact that "Arctica" uses volunteers negate the point I made here:
in other words, the problem lies with the ice truck people ("Arctica")...they are just douchebags...**they could try to make it better but they don't care**....the problem with this system is that Burning Man as an event encourages this superiority complex mentality
Pretty obvious. Because if they didn't care, they could simply not volunteer? The whole point of volunteering is to make something better than it would be if you didn't.
Nothing you said addresses that at all...
They can be volunteers and still douchebags...the point is it's obvious they could do it faster but they dont care
You have no fucking clue.
which i feel confirms my theory about Burning Man, as does your last comment
If your theory is that everyone is an asshole, and you test it by acting like an asshole to everyone, then it shouldn't be a surprise that your "theory is confirmed".
I'm going to propose a new theory for you. If it seems like everyone else is an asshole, maybe you are the asshole.
It's not a monopoly. There are no vendors. The people distributing the ice are volunteers.
Even if there were a traditional profit driven vendor for the ice, he would still have an incentive to sell all the ice as quickly as possible and GTFO, because he wouldn't have to pay his workers for as many hours and pay to have the truck refrigerated for as long.
The truck is a few feet away. If we are complaining about the time it takes to go from the truck to the counter, then we would be complaining about the time it takes to take the bags out of the counter cooler.
I don't know what the bread lines in Russia were like. But I'm willing to wager it's not anything like that. I've been on more than a few ice runs, and it's fine. It might be able to be improved, but at no point was I feel like my survival was in question.
They already have 3 locations, and they could presumably add more if they wanted.
Cubes melt faster than blocks. Some people want to make stuff cold fast. Some people want to make stuff cold for a longer period of time.
The large bags of ice are just six small bags in a bigger bag. So in a sense they do only sell one size, but they have bulk pricing for groups of 6 bags.
It's true, economics is a first world problem. I'm not sure why doing things in an inefficient 3rd world way i "growing up". It seems like that would be the opposite.
If they can dispense ice more efficiently, then the volunteers can go enjoy burning man rather than dispensing ice. The refrigerated truck can waste less energy cooling the ice.
There is plenty of ways to make people efficient without direct competition. All you need to do is pay people to do a job. They will try to finish that job as quickly as they can without any extra incentive, because their time is valuable.
You absolutely can do it. For me, $850 for an iphone is a ripoff. That doesn't mean they Apple can't sell iphones for $850, it just means they can't sell it to me.
Those same people who feel like they are getting ripped off can feel great that they are getting such a great deal when the ice is cheap.
Ice, even at burning man, is not a necessity. If you choose to make it a necessity by bringing only potato salad to eat for a week, that's your problem.
I found burning man to do things rather efficiently given their requirements. I used to hate the line to leave, and as a software engineer who remembers his queuing theory, I had all these great ideas of how the line to leave could be improved. Within a year they implemented "Pulsing", which basically did exactly what I would have done. You still have to wait X hours to leave, but now you can shut off your car and sleep, or hang out with people, and you don't need to worry as much about people cutting in line.
There are a lot of really smart people who go to burning man.
Slashdot Mirror
except if you read TFA, it's clear the author asked about it and was told it was a "food safety issue" which he checked on and found to be untrue
Ice is not dispensed by one person. It's dispensed by lots of volunteers at 3 different locations every day during the event over many years. I'm sure some probably do think it's a government rule. Not every volunteer is perfectly informed. This isn't relevant to the point that I am making about you.
again...you ARE indeed proving my point, that Burners like you who over-mystify something just to feel 'cool' and 'in the know' are the problem, pasted below from my OP comment:
Why are you trying to pretend to know about things that you don't? Are you just trying to feel "cool"?
Regardless of whether you like me or I like you, the fact is that I AM in the know (at least much more than you), because I actually witnessed the phenomenon in question. Normally there can be some debate over whether "experts" actually know anymore. I am not even claiming to be an expert. I am claiming that you know next to nothing, and the experience that I have (which I am not suggesting is comprehensive), as WAY MORE than what you have (which is none).
...the problem with this system is that Burning Man as an event encourages this superiority complex mentality
Not only does Burning man as an event not encourage this, but stating facts is not evidence of a superiority complex.
My advice to you is to know at least a little about a subject before trying to feign expertise. Or better yet, don't even try to feign expertise. It is possible to have a discussion about something without pretending to be an expert on it.
those who do, do because it's the right thing to do, they don't have the time to worry about what you may think of them.
Putting little words on engraved cogs and gears is still an attempt to get credit in the eyes of someone, it's just God rather than other human beings.
I think putting little words on cogs and gears is like donating to a charity anonymously and then hiring someone to out you as the generous donor.
And if it was a man, he'd find refuge in audacity [tvtropes.org] and just get to be a trolling asshole. The people hating him would only add to his mystique.
What planet is this actually happening on?
Women can't do that, but they can play on paternalism to make you feel sorry for them. Kind of a sad trade, if you ask me.
I guess if you wanted to, you could reward female trolls and add to their "mystique", to try to help them catch up to all the mystique that male trolls have amassed over the years.
Yeah don't do it for credit from mere mortals. That's for chumps. Do it for credit from God, because getting into heaven is the real way to win at life.
Ignoring the sexist nature of your comment for a moment, do you think we should simply stop trying to protect anyone from harassment and bullying because clearly it's their own fault for being sensitive to their disability/skin colour/nationality/etc? You are just blaming the victim here.
Is it even possible to offer any kind of analysis of why people become victims or suggestions of how to prevent it without being accused of victim blaming?
Is every self defense class a giant example of victim blaming because it doesn't place 100% of the responsibility on a would be assailant?
Are home security systems an example of victim blaming because people have a right not to be burglarized and security systems only perpetuate the victim blaming mentality that it is your own responsibility to prevent home invasions?
I agree there is such a thing as victim blaming, but I think frivolous accusations of victim blaming just dis-empowers efforts to point out real examples of victim blaming.
I think claim was that you would be an asshole if you constantly patrolled gamergate discussions and repeated what you just said, every chance you got. The idea being, that if you actually didn't care about gamer gate, then you would be off doing more important things like saving the world rather than wasting your time showing off your gamergate trump card to anyone who will listen.
Group A: People who think gamers/games are sexist.
Group B: People who do not think gamers/games are sexist.
Group C: People who send death threats to people in Group A.
You can be on more than one group. There are definitely some people who are in both B and C. This does not mean that A is right and B is wrong.
A democrat sending you a death threat does not mean republicans are right about anything.
Face it, there positively without any doubt is a vile and disgusting segment of gamer culture
There is a vile disgusting segment of just about every culture, why should gaming be held to any higher standard?
Shooting guns is entertaining. That seems to be a legitimate enough reason. Maybe this isn't a good enough reason to allow rocket launchers given the danger they would likely pose, but entertainment is not an illegitimate reason.
false choice....it's not a binary...it's not a choice between only either a) not volunteer or b) get ice slowly and not improve the system
I never implied anything was binary. There are many choices. They could care a lot, they could care a little, or they could not care at all, and everything in between. What I suggested was that they at least care enough to volunteer.
It was you who suggested the extreme option that they don't care at all.
the volunteers should try TFA's idea without a big hassle or drama...they should WELCOME a solution that makes it faster...and so should YOU
I'm sure they have tried it, along with lots of other ideas. Burning man is a place with a lot of smart people continuously trying new ideas. I am not saying that the process can't be improved. I am saying that the characterization of the current process by the OP is not accurate. The workers are already working in parallel, so getting the ice after the order is made doesn't slow anything down as long as it isn't slower than the transaction of money on average.
I think there probably exists even better ways of doing the ice line than what Bennett suggests. Some of those suggestions occurred right in this comments section. As someone who has personally witnessed the ice line several times over 6 years, and as a software engineer with 10 years experience, I can confidently say that Bennett's assessment of the problem and his solution are flawed.
You really are continuing to prove my point with all this
But that's not even what this is about. What this is about is someone (you) who *really* has no fucking clue what he's talking about, trying to pretend like he does. At least Bennett has been to burning man once, and is trying to make things better (along with most people who go to burning man).
You are someone who (I will assume) has been to burning man 0 times, who has heard how the ice line works from someone who has been once.
There are some douchebags at burning man. Most of the people are really intelligent, thoughtful and kind. Labelling volunteers you've never met, at an event you've never been to, as douchebags makes you a douchebag.
If you ever come to burning man. Please don't be a douchebag.
doesn't matter if they're volunteers...but thanks for confirming for everyone that my first point was accurate, while simultaneously *contributing nothing* to the actual conversation
I don't see how anything I said lead to anything being more mystified.
So, how does the fact that "Arctica" uses volunteers negate the point I made here:
in other words, the problem lies with the ice truck people ("Arctica")...they are just douchebags...**they could try to make it better but they don't care**....the problem with this system is that Burning Man as an event encourages this superiority complex mentality
Pretty obvious. Because if they didn't care, they could simply not volunteer? The whole point of volunteering is to make something better than it would be if you didn't.
Nothing you said addresses that at all...
They can be volunteers and still douchebags...the point is it's obvious they could do it faster but they dont care
You have no fucking clue.
which i feel confirms my theory about Burning Man, as does your last comment
If your theory is that everyone is an asshole, and you test it by acting like an asshole to everyone, then it shouldn't be a surprise that your "theory is confirmed".
I'm going to propose a new theory for you. If it seems like everyone else is an asshole, maybe you are the asshole.
It's not a monopoly. There are no vendors. The people distributing the ice are volunteers.
Even if there were a traditional profit driven vendor for the ice, he would still have an incentive to sell all the ice as quickly as possible and GTFO, because he wouldn't have to pay his workers for as many hours and pay to have the truck refrigerated for as long.
Everyone wins if we tested bombs on you too.
This is a way better solution than Bennett's. Good job Bob :)
The truck is a few feet away. If we are complaining about the time it takes to go from the truck to the counter, then we would be complaining about the time it takes to take the bags out of the counter cooler.
Arctica is a group of people volunteering to dispense ice at burning man.
Feel free to keep disliking something you know nothing about.
I don't know what the bread lines in Russia were like. But I'm willing to wager it's not anything like that. I've been on more than a few ice runs, and it's fine. It might be able to be improved, but at no point was I feel like my survival was in question.
They already have 3 locations, and they could presumably add more if they wanted.
...hilarious
Cubes melt faster than blocks. Some people want to make stuff cold fast. Some people want to make stuff cold for a longer period of time.
The large bags of ice are just six small bags in a bigger bag. So in a sense they do only sell one size, but they have bulk pricing for groups of 6 bags.
It's true, economics is a first world problem. I'm not sure why doing things in an inefficient 3rd world way i "growing up". It seems like that would be the opposite.
Hipsters don't exist. Are you a hipster?
If they can dispense ice more efficiently, then the volunteers can go enjoy burning man rather than dispensing ice. The refrigerated truck can waste less energy cooling the ice.
There is plenty of ways to make people efficient without direct competition. All you need to do is pay people to do a job. They will try to finish that job as quickly as they can without any extra incentive, because their time is valuable.
logistics is algorithmic.
You absolutely can do it. For me, $850 for an iphone is a ripoff. That doesn't mean they Apple can't sell iphones for $850, it just means they can't sell it to me.
Those same people who feel like they are getting ripped off can feel great that they are getting such a great deal when the ice is cheap.
Ice, even at burning man, is not a necessity. If you choose to make it a necessity by bringing only potato salad to eat for a week, that's your problem.
I found burning man to do things rather efficiently given their requirements. I used to hate the line to leave, and as a software engineer who remembers his queuing theory, I had all these great ideas of how the line to leave could be improved. Within a year they implemented "Pulsing", which basically did exactly what I would have done. You still have to wait X hours to leave, but now you can shut off your car and sleep, or hang out with people, and you don't need to worry as much about people cutting in line.
There are a lot of really smart people who go to burning man.
How many times have you been to burning man?