what is 'in house' distribution? where does the GPL talk about that?
whoever receives a copy of a program under GPL is entiteld to receive the source no more, no less! if you didin't get the binary, you have no right to receive the source either.
Corporations (and everyone) should be required to release the modifications to their source code every six months to a year, if the modified versions are shared with more than, say, three people.
released to whom? those three or four people are the only ones who have any right to get the source, nobody else has the GPL does not require to release anything anywhere anytime. there never was a requirement for a public release. only a requirement to give the source to whomever you give the binary
ok, ok, maybe the coffee-thing was a bad example, the point i wanted to make is: the US allows you to sue someone for unreasonable amounts of money for things that should be common sense. this may be dangerous for free software. in most european countries, any attempt to sue a free software developer will fail, because you didn't pay him any money.
i do not believe that required warranties will harm free software. in austria and germany such warranty laws are in effect, and the 'no warranty' clause of the GPL is void. that really doesn't seem to hurt free software there. (but then, you also can not sue someone for a million because they didn't tell you that the coffee was hot, so maybe free software in the US will be harmed)
you are missing the point of the test it is not to produce the fastest possible code for each language, but test code that an 'average' programmer would write if you take that into mind than, yes it is possible, even likely that a C implementation is slower than awk, because it takes a whole lot mor experience and skill to write C, compared to awk. what we learn from this is, unless you are an expert in C, that given problem is better solved in awk, and that is exactly what we want to know
greetings, eMBee. ps: i'll leave the discussion of 'average' to someone else. --
then you are writing the wrong test. read the comments on the test site making use of the features of a language is exactly the point. you may want to talk to john directly, he will certainly welcome your input.
see, that is the difference, you only give security to the rich, worse even, in most places in europe i don't need to pay guards to safeguard me, the notion of 'bad neigborhoods' hardly exists (it does exist, but is by far not as common as here in the US) i am not at all interrested in wasting my money for security. freedom means that i can go anywhere and do what i please without having to fear for my life. i do not have this freedom in the US. freedom also means that i can live a decent life even with a low paid job, and that i do not always have to try to make as much money as i possibly can. freedom means, not having to be a slave to money.
if you lease, you are taking responsibility for the tenant. if you own a single house you can certainly rent it for a short period, because you can claim personal need. however of you own a dozend houses or an appartment building, you can hardly claim that, and therefore have to take the full responsibility, not to do as you please, but to act in the tenants best interest.
you are describing the united states, what you say does not hold true in western europe.
common standard there is to lease appartments, but lease is secure, that is, to limit the lease for a certain amount of time with the option to renew is even illegal in most places, normal lease contracts are unlimited, and there is almost no acceptable reason for the landlord to terminate a lease. landlords also can not raise the rent at will. there are laws to safeguard tenants.
you can not be laid off at will either. companies must have a strong reason to layoff people (and be prepared to prove the need in court), employees hae a lot more rights than in the US.
because in c you have to deal with memory handling, no string type, no oo, need to compile, no runtime evaluation, no weak typing... for me, plenty of reasons not to use c.
how is python more dynamic? (i am not saying that it is not, i am just wondering how you measure the dynamicness of a language) from what i know about python, i do not think that is is more like perl. and pike is not really as close to java either. java has totally different string handling, where as pike and python are rather similar here.
do they? what compelling case does the python crowd make compared to pike? none, because most are not aware of it's existance.
otoh, it's hard to make a case for pike compared to python, because they are very similar in functionality. and when we try to make a case compared to perl, we immideately get confronted with: "but python already does that"
since you mention perl and python, i assume you agree, that python has something that perl has not. i assume you will also agree that this 'more' of python is not just it's syntax. from that we can conclude that in python you can to things that you can not do in perl
now: in pike you can do the same 'more' that you can do in python, but with a C syntax.
you can therefore conclude that you should move to pike, if you don't like pythons syntax.
right, pike and python are very similar, featurewise. if you are happy with python, you do not need to look at pike, pike offers you pythons features in a C syntax.
pike does fill a gap for me. it is the only typed and interpreted language with a syntax very close to c (the only thing closer, would be interpreted c itself). there is no other language which provides this.
pikes history goes back to lpc which was started in 1989/90, perl started in 1987, and python in 1991
in order to consider adding features to an existing language it must be known and used widely enough to consider it worth it over just rewriting another one from scratch...
if you are interrsted in the history of a language and want to enter the world of lpc read some paragraphs about lpc and lpmuds: history, what is lpc what is an lpmud, lpc servers (the lpmud servers listed there are essentially lpc dialects) (Profezzorn, mentioned here, is the author of pike)
another interresting introduction to lpc. (what is said here in 2.1 and 2.2 is essentially true for pike and roxen: just replace "lpc objects" with "roxen modules" and lpmud with roxen and most other occurances of lpc with pike:-)
hmm, the only thing that would make it more 'low' level would be that you have to declare variables, is there anything else? i guess it's a question of taste, and i can understand your point...
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where does the GPL talk about that?
whoever receives a copy of a program under GPL is entiteld to receive the source
no more, no less! if you didin't get the binary, you have no right to receive the source either.
Corporations (and everyone) should be required to release the modifications to their source code every six months to a year, if the modified versions are shared with more than, say, three people.
released to whom?
those three or four people are the only ones who have any right to get the source, nobody else has
the GPL does not require to release anything anywhere anytime.
there never was a requirement for a public release.
only a requirement to give the source to whomever you give the binary
greetings, eMBee.
--
in most european countries, any attempt to sue a free software developer will fail, because you didn't pay him any money.
greetings, eMBee.
--
that really doesn't seem to hurt free software there.
(but then, you also can not sue someone for a million because they didn't tell you that the coffee was hot, so maybe free software in the US will be harmed)
greetings, eMBee.
--
it is not to produce the fastest possible code for each language, but test code that an 'average' programmer would write
if you take that into mind than, yes it is possible, even likely that a C implementation is slower than awk, because it takes a whole lot mor experience and skill to write C, compared to awk.
what we learn from this is, unless you are an expert in C, that given problem is better solved in awk, and that is exactly what we want to know
greetings, eMBee.
ps: i'll leave the discussion of 'average' to someone else.
--
read the comments on the test site
making use of the features of a language is exactly the point. you may want to talk to john directly, he will certainly welcome your input.
greetings, eMBee.
--
i am not at all interrested in wasting my money for security.
freedom means that i can go anywhere and do what i please without having to fear for my life.
i do not have this freedom in the US.
freedom also means that i can live a decent life even with a low paid job, and that i do not always have to try to make as much money as i possibly can.
freedom means, not having to be a slave to money.
greetings, eMBee.
--
however of you own a dozend houses or an appartment building, you can hardly claim that, and therefore have to take the full responsibility, not to do as you please, but to act in the tenants best interest.
greetings, eMBee.
--
common standard there is to lease appartments, but lease is secure, that is, to limit the lease for a certain amount of time with the option to renew is even illegal in most places, normal lease contracts are unlimited, and there is almost no acceptable reason for the landlord to terminate a lease. landlords also can not raise the rent at will. there are laws to safeguard tenants.
you can not be laid off at will either. companies must have a strong reason to layoff people (and be prepared to prove the need in court), employees hae a lot more rights than in the US.
greetings, eMBee.
--
for me, plenty of reasons not to use c.
greetings, eMBee.
--
please explain why i can't do with pike what i can do with python?
greetings, eMBee.
--
from what i know about python, i do not think that is is more like perl.
and pike is not really as close to java either.
java has totally different string handling, where as pike and python are rather similar here.
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
if you are an lpc-programmer looking for a job, there are companies out there looking for pike programmers
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
what compelling case does the python crowd make compared to pike?
none, because most are not aware of it's existance.
otoh, it's hard to make a case for pike compared to python, because they are very similar in functionality.
and when we try to make a case compared to perl, we immideately get confronted with: "but python already does that"
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
i assume you will also agree that this 'more' of python is not just it's syntax.
from that we can conclude that in python you can to things that you can not do in perl
now:
in pike you can do the same 'more' that you can do in python, but with a C syntax.
you can therefore conclude that you should move to pike, if you don't like pythons syntax.
greetings, eMBee.
--
pike offers you pythons features in a C syntax.
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
could you elaborate?
greetings, eMBee.
--
it is the only typed and interpreted language with a syntax very close to c (the only thing closer, would be interpreted c itself).
there is no other language which provides this.
greetins, eMBee.
--
perl started in 1987,
and python in 1991
in order to consider adding features to an existing language it must be known and used widely enough to consider it worth it over just rewriting another one from scratch...
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
not really true.
pike actually goes back to the late 80ties when lars pensjö first wrote lpc.
check the history of pike here.
if you are interrsted in the history of a language and want to enter the world of lpc read some paragraphs about lpc and lpmuds: history, what is lpc
what is an lpmud, lpc servers (the lpmud servers listed there are essentially lpc dialects)
(Profezzorn, mentioned here, is the author of pike)
another interresting introduction to lpc. :-)
(what is said here in 2.1 and 2.2 is essentially true for pike and roxen: just replace "lpc objects" with "roxen modules" and lpmud with roxen and most other occurances of lpc with pike
here the history to one of the lpc dialects.
go back even further and find out how lpc was started in the first place.
as you can see, pike has a very lively history and a lot of background.
greetings, eMBee.
--
i guess it's a question of taste, and i can understand your point...
greetings, eMBee.
--