AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, another reason for me to stay away from this language, i can't spell it properly: it's python, not phyton it's python, not phyton it's python, not phyton it's python, not phyton
esperanto has all its words and concepts taken from other languages.
what flexibility is it, that you miss in esperanto? esperanto has more ways to express yourself then any other language i have seen.
what esperanto has, is less ambiguity, something which no computer language has at all... no irregular grammar, this would be usefull for a comparison: perl has many different syntax variations (the grammar), while phyton has a more regular syntax
gee, i did not comment on how structured phyton is, i commented that indentation is not the only thing needed for a good structure, which is what ted seemed to imply.
those 30 words for snow are a myth, they don't exist!
Python is designed for "higher", more structured design. Why else do you think Python forces indentation?
indentation is the only thing that makes phyton designed for structured design? are you trying to say that other languages are not good for that? IMHO, the only good thing about forced indentation, is, to make it easier for beginners, as it teaches them to good code structure. but thats it. i will never use phyton myself, because i do not like a certain indentation forced upon me, and there are other laguages that are designed for structured coding: take a look at Pike. it structures your code at a much higher level, than indentation would do (i am not implying that phyton doesn't do that too, i just don't know enough about it) by implicitly wrapping each source file into a class. in pike you will thus make use of object orientation from the first day, without even realizing it...
some links: linuxdev.net about the ottawa linux symposium mentioning linux on merced a comment on the linux kernel list regarding SCO Unix running on IA-64 as early as 1997 and of course you should check out the Linux on IA-64 project homepage.
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and may not be used independently for financial gain or advancement of the Employee.
in the contract, i was asked to sign, i send back this response:
i don't like this one at all, as it sounds, even the work i do at home, would be property of the company. I CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS! i must be able to continue working on other open source projects at my discretion. neither do i like the fact that i may not use my own ideas as i wish. i have no problem that you uses my code however you want, but i want to be able to do the same. i want to work for you because i want to advance myself, if i can not use my work for my own advancement, where is the point? in the beginning you wrote: > We are a 100% linux shop and believe in Open Source. if that is true, then please allow me to continue to publish my own code as open source.
the paragraph was changed with out any further argument to this one:
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and will be published with the GNU General Public License Version 2.
other than that it's a standard contract, with a lot of legaleeze inside.... i have no idea though if that was looked over with the companies lawyers, i am guessing not, but i think it's worth a try... if not there are other jobs.
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and may not be used independently for financial gain or advancement of the Employee.
in the contract, i was asked to sign, i send back this response:
i don't like this one at all, as it sounds, even the work i do at home, would be property of the company. I CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS! i must be able to continue working on other open source projects at my discretion. neither do i like the fact that i may not use my own ideas as i wish. i have no problem that you uses my code however you want, but i want to be able to do the same. i want to work for you because i want to advance myself, if i can not use my work for my own advancement, where is the point? in the beginning you wrote: > We are a 100% linux shop and believe in Open Source. if that is true, then please allow me to continue to publish my own code as open source.
the paragraph was changed with out any further argument to this one:
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and will be published with the GNU General Public License Version 2.
other than that it's a standard contract, with a lot of legaleeze inside.... i have no idea though if that was looked over with the companies lawyers, i am guessing not, but i think it's worth a try... if not there are other jobs. --
you are saying that linux will go the way of windows
it will not
the scenario which you describe yourself is not the one of windows but the one of unix. so in the worst case linux will have the same fate as unix, a fate which i don't mint so much. any unix today is better than windows, and if i get offered a job where i can work with unix, i'd take it, because i don't care which unix it is, as long as it is unix at all. (of course i'd prefer something free like linux or open/net/freebsd, but that's another issue)
so even if linux does not succeed in unifying todays unices, a free linux will always remain
what exactly are you paying them for if you are not getting anything in return?
the DNS service? if they where selling you proprty, why would you pay a yearly fee?
you are paying them 35$ a year for them to provide NS pointers to your servers. there is no other fee, which means that you are not paying for the name itself.
you have a point, our hosting customers only get to use CGI because we can't trust them, but for any other reason you mentioned please take a closer look at roxen. it has internal error handling, and no matter how bad the code is, it is very hard to kill the whole process, the only killers are things that would eat up all your memory, or use up all available file descriptors, and even that can be caught. also endless loops are not a real problem if you run roxen multithreaded, they would only kill a thread. it is so safe, that i have no problem to develop and debug on a live production server, even though i still try not to do it. roxen allows me to replace modules while it is running, without disturbing the rest of the operation...
if you can not trust what you are running, you shouldn't be running it?
If the look of your site changes but the code and the HTML are entangled, it can be very easy to break program logic while trying to make visual changes.
absolutely!
recommend perl as a first choice
however there are alternatives to perl here too. the Roxen WebServer has an extensive SSI language (RXML) that allows for things like SQL queries without any code. and if RXML does not do what you want, then you can put the code in a module and make it available to the html-writer as an RXML extension.
well, 'cgi scripts' does make some sense, since to me a 'cgi script' is a script that works with the cgi interface.
however, i'd like to add, that the cgi interface is outdated imho, it requires that a new process is started for every call to a 'cgi app' which is very expensive. today there are much better things like mod_perl, mod_php... or other servers that are easely extendable, like roxen, which allows for easy integration of your code with modules that others have written...
pike has all the features you would need for that, i don't know about the complexity of zope compared to roxen, but roxen is certainly modular enough, that you could just stript away all the modules you don't need and use it as bare-bones as you want...
it doesn't so much matter how it looks, but that everything that looks the same way also functions the samw way, or everthithing that has the same function also has the same appearence. uniformity. all programs should be written using the same toolkit. the programmer should not have any freedom to change the design of widgets, just because he doesn't like the way they look. if i learned one program i should be able to to use any other.
without a software license it's in the public domain.
no, it is not. you still have the copyright. to get something into the public domain you have to state explicitly that you give up your copyright, afaik
i just realize that i didn't read the whole thread all the way up the tree, i now found your original statement: they can sue me for using something derived from my code!, which is indeed correct. my apology for making this thread go in circles...
i am working on a site that uses wml too, and i just hate it, wml is very slow. translation of a single page takes about 5 seconds on a Pentium MMX 233 MHz. RXML, used by the Roxen WebServer has all the features of WML, but roxen translates that almost in realtime. (and instead of WML, RXML is now fully XML compliant). Roxen also can create buttons on the fly, and contrary to what you say about gfont, it has no problem with different button sizes.
a lot of the problems mentioned are easley solved with the Roxen WebServer. Roxen has an extensive SSI language (RXML) that allows you to build powerfull sites. eg. buttons can be created by the server, with the text you specify (like <gtext>click here</gtext>), you can also use a backgroundimage and thus putting any kind of text on top of any image.
of course seperation of content and design is key. in order to achive 100% seperation i wrote an xml template module for roxen, that allows me to specify the content in XML, and then apply a template to show it. roxen also makes it easy to check for the clients default language, so you could select the language based on that easely. the most important thing is, it all looks like html to the webauthor. there is no programming involved.
sure, php is nice, but if you don't know about programming languages, then it will look very confusing, also it's very easy to screw up, because the non-programmer doesn't see that there is a ; or , missing, that creates a syntax-error in the php code.
Slashdot Mirror
you can get a lot more power out of roxen if you write pike modules...
greetings, eMBee.
--
it's python, not phyton
it's python, not phyton
it's python, not phyton
sorry, guys!!
greetings, eMBee.
--
s/phyton/python/
sorry guys!!!!
greetings, eMBee.
--
- esperanto has all its words and concepts taken from other languages.
- what flexibility is it, that you miss in esperanto? esperanto has more ways to express yourself then any other language i have seen.
what esperanto has, is less ambiguity, something which no computer language has at all...no irregular grammar, this would be usefull for a comparison: perl has many different syntax variations (the grammar), while phyton has a more regular syntax
greetings, eMBee.
--
greetings, eMBee.
--
Python is designed for "higher", more structured design. Why else do you think Python forces indentation?
indentation is the only thing that makes phyton designed for structured design?
are you trying to say that other languages are not good for that?
IMHO, the only good thing about forced indentation, is, to make it easier for beginners, as it teaches them to good code structure. but thats it.
i will never use phyton myself, because i do not like a certain indentation forced upon me, and there are other laguages that are designed for structured coding:
take a look at Pike. it structures your code at a much higher level, than indentation would do (i am not implying that phyton doesn't do that too, i just don't know enough about it) by implicitly wrapping each source file into a class. in pike you will thus make use of object orientation from the first day, without even realizing it...
greetings, eMBee.
--
$ telnet xxxx.xxxxx.xx
Trying xxx.xx.xxx.xx...
Connected to xxxx.xxxxx.xx.
Escape character is '^]'.
Dies ist ein Mailserver.
Mit anderen Worten:
Unsere Rechtsabteilung findet es sehr interessant,
was Sie so mit unserem Mailserver machen wollen.
Bis demnächst, vor Gericht
Hochachtungsvoll
Ihre Xxxxx-Xxx Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx GmbH
login:
Login incorrect
Connection closed by foreign host.
translation:
This is a mailserver.
In other words:
Our legaldepartment finds it very interresting,
what you would like to do with our mailserver.
See you in court.
respectfully
your Xxxxx-Xxx Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx GmbH
greetings, eMBee.
--
being a GNUstep follower, i only hear praises for it, so i would appreciate your comments...
greetings, eMBee.
--
linuxdev.net about the ottawa linux symposium mentioning linux on merced
a comment on the linux kernel list regarding SCO Unix running on IA-64 as early as 1997
and of course you should check out the Linux on IA-64 project homepage.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and may not be used independently for financial gain or advancement of the Employee.
in the contract, i was asked to sign, i send back this response:
i don't like this one at all, as it sounds, even the work i do at home, would be property of the company. I CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS!
i must be able to continue working on other open source projects at my discretion. neither do i like the fact that i may not use my own ideas as i wish. i have no problem that you uses my code however you want, but i want to be able to do the same.
i want to work for you because i want to advance myself, if i can not use my work for my own advancement, where is the point?
in the beginning you wrote:
> We are a 100% linux shop and believe in Open Source.
if that is true, then please allow me to continue to publish my own code as open source.
the paragraph was changed with out any further argument to this one:
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and will be published with the GNU General Public License Version 2.
other than that it's a standard contract, with a lot of legaleeze inside....
i have no idea though if that was looked over with the companies lawyers, i am guessing not, but i think it's worth a try...
if not there are other jobs.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and may not be used independently for financial gain or advancement of the Employee.
in the contract, i was asked to sign, i send back this response:
i don't like this one at all, as it sounds, even the work i do at home, would be property of the company. I CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS!
i must be able to continue working on other open source projects at my discretion. neither do i like the fact that i may not use my own ideas as i wish. i have no problem that you uses my code however you want, but i want to be able to do the same.
i want to work for you because i want to advance myself, if i can not use my work for my own advancement, where is the point?
in the beginning you wrote:
> We are a 100% linux shop and believe in Open Source.
if that is true, then please allow me to continue to publish my own code as open source.
the paragraph was changed with out any further argument to this one:
Employee also agrees that all inventions/advancements developed or created by Employee while employed by the Company, are the sole property of the Company and will be published with the GNU General Public License Version 2.
other than that it's a standard contract, with a lot of legaleeze inside....
i have no idea though if that was looked over with the companies lawyers, i am guessing not, but i think it's worth a try...
if not there are other jobs.
--
it will not
the scenario which you describe yourself is not the one of windows but the one of unix.
so in the worst case linux will have the same fate as unix, a fate which i don't mint so much.
any unix today is better than windows, and if i get offered a job where i can work with unix, i'd take it, because i don't care which unix it is, as long as it is unix at all. (of course i'd prefer something free like linux or open/net/freebsd, but that's another issue)
so even if linux does not succeed in unifying todays unices, a free linux will always remain
greetings, eMBee.
--
the DNS service?
if they where selling you proprty, why would you pay a yearly fee?
you are paying them 35$ a year for them to provide NS pointers to your servers. there is no other fee, which means that you are not paying for the name itself.
greetings, eMBee.
--
but for any other reason you mentioned please take a closer look at roxen.
it has internal error handling, and no matter how bad the code is, it is very hard to kill the whole process, the only killers are things that would eat up all your memory, or use up all available file descriptors, and even that can be caught. also endless loops are not a real problem if you run roxen multithreaded, they would only kill a thread. it is so safe, that i have no problem to develop and debug on a live production server, even though i still try not to do it. roxen allows me to replace modules while it is running, without disturbing the rest of the operation...
if you can not trust what you are running, you shouldn't be running it?
greetings, eMBee.
--
make that 'a script that works with cgi'
greetings, eMBee.
--
absolutely!
recommend perl as a first choice
however there are alternatives to perl here too.
the Roxen WebServer has an extensive SSI language (RXML) that allows for things like SQL queries without any code. and if RXML does not do what you want, then you can put the code in a module and make it available to the html-writer as an RXML extension.
greetings, eMBee.
--
however, i'd like to add, that the cgi interface is outdated imho, it requires that a new process is started for every call to a 'cgi app' which is very expensive. ... or other servers that are easely extendable, like roxen, which allows for easy integration of your code with modules that others have written...
today there are much better things like mod_perl, mod_php
greetings, eMBee.
--
has all the features you would need for that, i don't know about the complexity of zope compared to roxen, but roxen is certainly modular enough, that you could just stript away all the modules you don't need and use it as bare-bones as you want...
greetings, eMBee.
--
using their webinterface makes you the 'user' of their program, and therefore entitles you to get the source.
greetings, eMBee.
--
uniformity.
all programs should be written using the same toolkit.
the programmer should not have any freedom to change the design of widgets, just because he doesn't like the way they look.
if i learned one program i should be able to to use any other.
greetings, eMBee.
--
no, it is not. you still have the copyright.
to get something into the public domain you have to state explicitly that you give up your copyright, afaik
greetings, eMBee.
--
my apology for making this thread go in circles...
greetings, eMBee.
--
RXML, used by the Roxen WebServer has all the features of WML, but roxen translates that almost in realtime. (and instead of WML, RXML is now fully XML compliant).
Roxen also can create buttons on the fly, and contrary to what you say about gfont, it has no problem with different button sizes.
greetings, eMBee.
--
but they can not sue you for using your own code.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Roxen has an extensive SSI language (RXML) that allows you to build powerfull sites.
eg. buttons can be created by the server, with the text you specify (like <gtext>click here</gtext>), you can also use a backgroundimage and thus putting any kind of text on top of any image.
of course seperation of content and design is key.
in order to achive 100% seperation i wrote an xml template module for roxen, that allows me to specify the content in XML, and then apply a template to show it.
roxen also makes it easy to check for the clients default language, so you could select the language based on that easely.
the most important thing is, it all looks like html to the webauthor. there is no programming involved.
sure, php is nice, but if you don't know about programming languages, then it will look very confusing, also it's very easy to screw up, because the non-programmer doesn't see that there is a ; or , missing, that creates a syntax-error in the php code.
greetings, eMBee.
--