OK, perhaps I was a little harsh.:-/ We did get some feedback from the Linux driver team but the last I heard it didn't result in getting the problem fixed.:-( For the large part though I do stand by the fact that nVidia is next-to-impossible to work with. Other companies provide us with specs, etc.
I could ask our engineers again what finally resulted from talking to nVidia... Unfortunately it's kind of moot now as management is leery about spending time (and thus money) on the Linux market when even the tiny Amiga market is more responsive.:-(
If we have time at some point I can see if we can get the problem fixed, but our guys are super busy at the moment.
Believe me we're not happy that our game crashes on current rev nVidia stuff. It doesn't exactly reflect well on us.:-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Re:Well, at least I bought one of your games...
on
Loki Games Closing?
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· Score: 1
Heh, I wish that was us.:-) That was Rebellion, who certainly did a great job on atmosphere.:-) The game had some serious gameplay issues (not really their fault, nobody had really figured out how to do a good FPS from a console controller back then) it was still a great game. Yes I have it and I thoroughly enjoyed playing it (I beat all three modes:-). It was one of the few good games the Jaguar had.
Incidentally, if you like "Aliens"-type atmosphere, the game that really captured it the best I think was Pandora's "Xenomorph", a Dungeon Master clone that was released for a variety of platforms. It's very, very primitive by today's standards but it really kicks ass. You should check out some abandonware sites and try it out. It was released for the C-64, Amiga, Atari ST, MS-DOS, and Archimedes. I have the C-64, Amiga and MS-DOS versions, and I have played the Atari-ST version though I still need a copy of it. In terms of features the C-64 version is actually the most advanced (the character selection
was implemented in it, while it was never finished for the other versions), but in terms of graphical atmosphere and general playability the Amiga version is probably the best. BTW, if anyone reading this has either the Atari ST or Archimedes version of this game I would really like a copy!;->
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Yes, we're aware of the problem. Something changed in nVidia's drivers after we finalized the game that broke it. I personally led a beta testing group and SiN did indeed run just fine on the GeForce line of cards. After the problem occured we tried to figure out what was changed that was causing it to fail but because of nVidia's complete lack of interest in working with other developers we weren't able to easily identify it. We considered spending more time working on it but by that time the sales were so disappointing we put a freeze on all Linux projects (this freeze is not permanent hopefully but it's understandable why we have it.)
Actually, a bunch of us at Hyperion really, REALLY hate nVidia. They are the prima donnas of the graphics card manufacturing community. We repeatedly asked them for information concerning the functioning of their cards and for the large part they refused our pleas. Their attitude is that everything has to be done internally and they refuse to cooperate with others. Companies like ATI and Matrox have been very cooperative with us, giving us the information we need to make sure our stuff works properly with their hardware. 3DFX, while they still existed, were also somewhat helpful in providing information (though not as good as ATI). There was a problem with the Voodoo GL drivers that actually caused the game to crash when we had glowing objects onscreen in Shogo, but fortunately due easy-to-access information we were able to include a workaround.
I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to NOT use nVidia hardware until they open up a bit with the information so that people can actually SUPPORT their cards. There are many other great companies that make great cards you can buy from. My personal favorite is the ATI Radeon series but there are other worthy contenders as well.
And yes, I know Loki games don't have problems with the new nVidia drivers. And no I don't know why.:-( Loki, to their credit, were more devoted to Linux and certainly did work harder to fix incompatibilities. If someone who's reading this knows what's causing the crash, please let us know. I wish we could afford the time to root out the problem but unfortunately we need to spend it on other projects so we don't wind up like Loki.:-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Re:huh? I already got free.
on
Loki Games Closing?
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· Score: 5, Interesting
It actually works totally the other way around. *WE* pay a software company for the right to port the game. We have to pay a big chunk of money up front. These companies do not see fit to make Linux versions of games, so we have to give them money to convince them to do it. While we have also done some contract work (where we were paid to write code) this isn't really how it works for games for any OS besides Windows. Somebody has to pay the original publisher for the rights.
Regarding the number of people who play games under Linux... Well, there certainly has been a clamor for them. While it's true that most installations of Linux are running as servers, there are also many desktop installations. Certainly a larger number than any other alternative OS except perhaps MacOS. We get quite a few requests for ports, and in general there seems to be quite a clamor for Linux games (if you read any website frequented by the Linux community). Loki, as the predominant Linux gaming company, received heaps of praise.
As far as social simulation and other interesting not-common-on-American-PCs genres go... Well, I sure wish we'd release some of those. Unfortunately it is still a niche market, and given that we already cater to a niche market it would be a niche within a niche.:-(
I hope with growing acceptance of Linux there might be a revival of Linux gaming at some point.... But for the time being the attitude seems to be Everything-On-Linux-Must-Be-Free-Beer. People who are willing to buy Windows games are unwilling to buy the Linux version (even though they claim that they want it). Instead they expect it to be supplied for free. I really hope this changes in the future.:-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Re:Well, at least I bought one of your games...
on
Loki Games Closing?
·
· Score: 1
Thanks for buying Shogo! That was actually our very first project and our guys got to know the code very well for that one. In fact, we later went on with a project to write parts of the second version of the Lithtech engine (so you'll see the result of some Hyperion code in any Lithtech V2 game like Aliens vs Predator 2, Sanity, No One Lives Forever, etc.)
Unfortunately the problem with SiN was that the CPU was mostly spent on the AI code, which we really couldn't do much to rewrite without making it a MAJOR project... So even though our guys did a phenomenal job with the 3D stuff your speed is still usually limited by the AI (unless you have a very fast machine).
Shogo is still my personal favorite of our games though.:-)
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
At Hyperion, an alternative platform game software porting company I work for, we've produced titles for Linux as well as MacOS and AmigaOS. The Linux versions simply bombed, with the Amiga versions outselling them by a good margin. The *AMIGA* versions! The Amiga market, by a good estimate, is around 100 times smaller than the Linux community.
What we got from Linux users were not sales, but tons of email demanding that we put up the binary executeables on an ftp site for free so they could download them and use them with their Windows version of the game. For some reason they just couldn't grasp that it cost us money to both license and port the software, and that we didn't see a red cent for the Windows version they bought. It didn't matter, all they wanted was free beer.
As a Linux enthusiast myself (active in my LUG, promoting Linux wherever I can) it really saddens me that so many users will clamor for Linux games but won't actually pony up the money when they become available. It's very, very depressing.
::goes to cry in his non-free beer::
James Sellman -- Hyperion Entertainment -- http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Every time there's an Amiga post, somebody leaps out and suggests that "Oh, the Amiga is dead. Take it off life support and let it go peacefully." In fact, every single posting of this type reads incredibly similar and I wonder if there isn't some autoresponse bot doing this.:-P
I type this from my PPC604e/233-based A4000(Elbox Tower w/7 Z3 slots). It's my primary machine and is also the fastest machine in my house. I don't have a single Wintel box here. The 604e also happily runs Linux at a decent clip so I don't see the need to grab any Wintel hardware thankyouverymuch.
Now, by modern standards my 604e isn't exactly fast, but it's certainly liveable. At Hyperion (Yes I work there) we've benchmarked an identical system to mine as being approx equivalent in speed to an AMD K6-2/450. This is not fast but it's not dirt slow either (unless you're running Losedoze 2000).
There are things I do want, however. I want a fully PPC OS (parts are still running on an onboard 68060/60). I want a newer motherboard with a nice PPC7450 on it that will put me up in the performance range of the latest Athlons. I want these things so I can keep moving forward. Why is it that certain assholes want to stop me? What is so wrong with wanting this? Who the hell are *THEY* do decide that my computer should go "quietly into the night".
*FUCK YOU*. We will *NOT* go "quietly into the night". This is my system, my lifestyle, and my home. I'm willing to fight for it. So a pox on all those who tell us that "You're dead, get a Windoze box."
I want a machine that does what I want it to do, and my Amy does this. Damn you all who think that her future should be destroyed.
Jim
P.S. For those who don't know, AmigaOS 4.0 is not some "other OS". It is a direct evolution from the current AmigaOS. Yes it will have elements of Tao running hosted on it, and the basic kernel will of course be rewritten (it's running on a different CPU after all, even the Linux kernel has low-level stuff that has to be rewritten for different CPUs) , but all the things that make the Amiga nice to use (Tightly coupled CLI/GUI, Intuition, ARexx, Datatypes, BOOPSI, etc.) will still be there. It won't be an Amiga "in name only".
I have seen this DVD player for sale for months now under the respected Shinco brand. Shinco is a famous maker of low-cost Chinese DVD players. These of course get rebadged and sold under other names elsewhere using exactly the same circuitry (Sampo, Apex, etc.) just with different casing.
If you want a reliable place to buy this and other cool products you can go to a reputable dealer like http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/ or http://www.lik-sang.com/
Check out AI trading (the goldenshop URL) they have many cool nifty items for sale like portable MP3 CD-ROM players, etc. Asia really is the coolest place to find electronics because asshole groups like the RIAA/MPAA don't have as much power there.
AI Trading has all sorts of console game accessories that really kick ass.:-) Like light guns with sliding action that look like actual guns not toys.:-)
Welcome to the wonderful world of Chinese electronics!
There ARE new genres, just not in the west!
Japan has created many new genres in the mid-late 90's. Witness the social sim, like Tokimeki Memorial. Witness the Rhytm Game like Parappa, and its natural extension the dancing game, like Dance Dance Revolution.
Hell, Japan has created games that are based entirely on interaction with sound. One game (I forget the name) didn't even have graphics, just a blank screen while you interacted with the sound.
I'd love to see some of these genres here but the market here seems to simply prefer generic FPS's and sports games. Oh well.:-/
Hell, not a SINGLE Social Simulation has been released in the U.S. (No, Thousand Arms doesn't count. It was horrible and didn't include very deep social segments.) The Sims sorta is like that but it was more an external "ant farm" simulation rather than one that put you into the social context.
Check out Japanese games sometime. Not the ones that are popular here, check out the releases you DON'T see talked about here. You'll find some VERY interesting games.
Why not just get the LD? No compression artifacts, no region codes, no copy protection, no stupid non-skippable-FBI-warning, no annoying menus to navigate.... Just a great image!:-) I have the original trilogy on LD and boy does it look great with my Pioneer Elite CLD-99! I wanna get a Pioneer HLD-x9 or HLD-x0 and see what it looks like on those...:-) Especially on an HLD release! For those who don't know -- you can buy HDTV movies now... thanks to the HLD format!:-> It's all Japanese import, but hey that's where all the best film stuff is anyway.:-)
...like Black Matrix Advanced... Ok I have to admit that the Saturn version is better for cool factor, but hey!:-) <p> And Sentimental Graffiti 2 is one of the most eagerly awaited sequels ever... I have the first game on Saturn and it is great! And the second one even better! I just wish Konami would port Tokimeki Memorial 2 for the Dreamcast (the PSX system limits simultaneous EVS usage to one character at a time... I want *ALL* the chars to be able to say my name, dammit!) <p> Grandia 2 is coming! Grandia 2! And it looks INCREDIBLE!:-) <p> ..and while I agree that the early-release titles weren't really inspiring, there were still some goodies. I *LOVE* Kita e: White Illumination! It suffers from poor performance thanks to being a WinCE game, but it has great designs and the Communications Break System is nice, since it lets you interject comments instead of just waiting for a chance to speak!:-) I just wish the game was a little harder.:-) <p> Anyway, there are tons of great DC games both out and in the pipeline to be released... Maybe not as many cool ones as the Saturn but certainly many are coming out.. Especially the great NEC Interchannel releases, and hopefully more input from Konami (TokiMemo 2!!! Please!! The PSX is just too limited for such a game!):-)
You *DO* realize that it's probably your sister that's the one sending out dirty messages.... Don't you?:-) People are much hornier at 13 than later in life.:-)
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I could ask our engineers again what finally resulted from talking to nVidia... Unfortunately it's kind of moot now as management is leery about spending time (and thus money) on the Linux market when even the tiny Amiga market is more responsive. :-(
If we have time at some point I can see if we can get the problem fixed, but our guys are super busy at the moment.
Believe me we're not happy that our game crashes on current rev nVidia stuff. It doesn't exactly reflect well on us. :-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Incidentally, if you like "Aliens"-type atmosphere, the game that really captured it the best I think was Pandora's "Xenomorph", a Dungeon Master clone that was released for a variety of platforms. It's very, very primitive by today's standards but it really kicks ass. You should check out some abandonware sites and try it out. It was released for the C-64, Amiga, Atari ST, MS-DOS, and Archimedes. I have the C-64, Amiga and MS-DOS versions, and I have played the Atari-ST version though I still need a copy of it. In terms of features the C-64 version is actually the most advanced (the character selection was implemented in it, while it was never finished for the other versions), but in terms of graphical atmosphere and general playability the Amiga version is probably the best. BTW, if anyone reading this has either the Atari ST or Archimedes version of this game I would really like a copy! ;->
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Actually, a bunch of us at Hyperion really, REALLY hate nVidia. They are the prima donnas of the graphics card manufacturing community. We repeatedly asked them for information concerning the functioning of their cards and for the large part they refused our pleas. Their attitude is that everything has to be done internally and they refuse to cooperate with others. Companies like ATI and Matrox have been very cooperative with us, giving us the information we need to make sure our stuff works properly with their hardware. 3DFX, while they still existed, were also somewhat helpful in providing information (though not as good as ATI). There was a problem with the Voodoo GL drivers that actually caused the game to crash when we had glowing objects onscreen in Shogo, but fortunately due easy-to-access information we were able to include a workaround.
I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to NOT use nVidia hardware until they open up a bit with the information so that people can actually SUPPORT their cards. There are many other great companies that make great cards you can buy from. My personal favorite is the ATI Radeon series but there are other worthy contenders as well.
And yes, I know Loki games don't have problems with the new nVidia drivers. And no I don't know why. :-( Loki, to their credit, were more devoted to Linux and certainly did work harder to fix incompatibilities. If someone who's reading this knows what's causing the crash, please let us know. I wish we could afford the time to root out the problem but unfortunately we need to spend it on other projects so we don't wind up like Loki. :-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Regarding the number of people who play games under Linux... Well, there certainly has been a clamor for them. While it's true that most installations of Linux are running as servers, there are also many desktop installations. Certainly a larger number than any other alternative OS except perhaps MacOS. We get quite a few requests for ports, and in general there seems to be quite a clamor for Linux games (if you read any website frequented by the Linux community). Loki, as the predominant Linux gaming company, received heaps of praise.
As far as social simulation and other interesting not-common-on-American-PCs genres go... Well, I sure wish we'd release some of those. Unfortunately it is still a niche market, and given that we already cater to a niche market it would be a niche within a niche. :-(
I hope with growing acceptance of Linux there might be a revival of Linux gaming at some point.... But for the time being the attitude seems to be Everything-On-Linux-Must-Be-Free-Beer. People who are willing to buy Windows games are unwilling to buy the Linux version (even though they claim that they want it). Instead they expect it to be supplied for free. I really hope this changes in the future. :-(
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
Unfortunately the problem with SiN was that the CPU was mostly spent on the AI code, which we really couldn't do much to rewrite without making it a MAJOR project... So even though our guys did a phenomenal job with the 3D stuff your speed is still usually limited by the AI (unless you have a very fast machine).
Shogo is still my personal favorite of our games though. :-)
James Sellman - Hyperion Entertainment - http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
What we got from Linux users were not sales, but tons of email demanding that we put up the binary executeables on an ftp site for free so they could download them and use them with their Windows version of the game. For some reason they just couldn't grasp that it cost us money to both license and port the software, and that we didn't see a red cent for the Windows version they bought. It didn't matter, all they wanted was free beer.
As a Linux enthusiast myself (active in my LUG, promoting Linux wherever I can) it really saddens me that so many users will clamor for Linux games but won't actually pony up the money when they become available. It's very, very depressing.
James Sellman -- Hyperion Entertainment -- http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/
I type this from my PPC604e/233-based A4000(Elbox Tower w/7 Z3 slots). It's my primary machine and is also the fastest machine in my house. I don't have a single Wintel box here. The 604e also happily runs Linux at a decent clip so I don't see the need to grab any Wintel hardware thankyouverymuch.
Now, by modern standards my 604e isn't exactly fast, but it's certainly liveable. At Hyperion (Yes I work there) we've benchmarked an identical system to mine as being approx equivalent in speed to an AMD K6-2/450. This is not fast but it's not dirt slow either (unless you're running Losedoze 2000).
There are things I do want, however. I want a fully PPC OS (parts are still running on an onboard 68060/60). I want a newer motherboard with a nice PPC7450 on it that will put me up in the performance range of the latest Athlons. I want these things so I can keep moving forward. Why is it that certain assholes want to stop me? What is so wrong with wanting this? Who the hell are *THEY* do decide that my computer should go "quietly into the night".
*FUCK YOU*. We will *NOT* go "quietly into the night". This is my system, my lifestyle, and my home. I'm willing to fight for it. So a pox on all those who tell us that "You're dead, get a Windoze box."
I want a machine that does what I want it to do, and my Amy does this. Damn you all who think that her future should be destroyed.
Jim
P.S. For those who don't know, AmigaOS 4.0 is not some "other OS". It is a direct evolution from the current AmigaOS. Yes it will have elements of Tao running hosted on it, and the basic kernel will of course be rewritten (it's running on a different CPU after all, even the Linux kernel has low-level stuff that has to be rewritten for different CPUs) , but all the things that make the Amiga nice to use (Tightly coupled CLI/GUI, Intuition, ARexx, Datatypes, BOOPSI, etc.) will still be there. It won't be an Amiga "in name only".
I have seen this DVD player for sale for months now under the respected Shinco brand. Shinco is a famous maker of low-cost Chinese DVD players. These of course get rebadged and sold under other names elsewhere using exactly the same circuitry (Sampo, Apex, etc.) just with different casing. :-) Like light guns with sliding action that look like actual guns not toys. :-)
If you want a reliable place to buy this and other cool products you can go to a reputable dealer like http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/ or http://www.lik-sang.com/
Check out AI trading (the goldenshop URL) they have many cool nifty items for sale like portable MP3 CD-ROM players, etc. Asia really is the coolest place to find electronics because asshole groups like the RIAA/MPAA don't have as much power there.
AI Trading has all sorts of console game accessories that really kick ass.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Chinese electronics!
There ARE new genres, just not in the west! Japan has created many new genres in the mid-late 90's. Witness the social sim, like Tokimeki Memorial. Witness the Rhytm Game like Parappa, and its natural extension the dancing game, like Dance Dance Revolution. Hell, Japan has created games that are based entirely on interaction with sound. One game (I forget the name) didn't even have graphics, just a blank screen while you interacted with the sound. I'd love to see some of these genres here but the market here seems to simply prefer generic FPS's and sports games. Oh well. :-/
Hell, not a SINGLE Social Simulation has been released in the U.S. (No, Thousand Arms doesn't count. It was horrible and didn't include very deep social segments.) The Sims sorta is like that but it was more an external "ant farm" simulation rather than one that put you into the social context.
Check out Japanese games sometime. Not the ones that are popular here, check out the releases you DON'T see talked about here. You'll find some VERY interesting games.
Why not just get the LD? :-) :-) Especially on an HLD release! :-> It's all Japanese import, but hey that's where all the best film stuff is anyway. :-)
No compression artifacts, no region codes, no copy protection, no stupid non-skippable-FBI-warning, no annoying menus to navigate.... Just a great image!
I have the original trilogy on LD and boy does it look great with my Pioneer Elite CLD-99! I wanna get a Pioneer HLD-x9 or HLD-x0 and see what it looks like on those...
For those who don't know -- you can buy HDTV movies now... thanks to the HLD format!
...like Black Matrix Advanced... Ok I have to admit that the Saturn version is better for cool factor, but hey! :-) <p> :-) <p> :-) I just wish the game was a little harder. :-) <p> :-)
And Sentimental Graffiti 2 is one of the most eagerly awaited sequels ever... I have the first game on Saturn and it is great! And the second one even better! I just wish Konami would port Tokimeki Memorial 2 for the Dreamcast (the PSX system limits simultaneous EVS usage to one character at a time... I want *ALL* the chars to be able to say my name, dammit!) <p>
Grandia 2 is coming! Grandia 2! And it looks INCREDIBLE!
..and while I agree that the early-release titles weren't really inspiring, there were still some goodies. I *LOVE* Kita e: White Illumination! It suffers from poor performance thanks to being a WinCE game, but it has great designs and the Communications Break System is nice, since it lets you interject comments instead of just waiting for a chance to speak!
Anyway, there are tons of great DC games both out and in the pipeline to be released... Maybe not as many cool ones as the Saturn but certainly many are coming out.. Especially the great NEC Interchannel releases, and hopefully more input from Konami (TokiMemo 2!!! Please!! The PSX is just too limited for such a game!)
You *DO* realize that it's probably your sister that's the one sending out dirty messages.... Don't you? :-) :-)
People are much hornier at 13 than later in life.
Why would your network only be slow in January? ;->