The concept behind the GPL could be traced back to 1840 and Marx, but I think RMS still deserves credit.
I think you'll find there is no such thing as a 100% new idea.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I'd like so say a word on ESR's behalf...
on
RMS vs. ESR
·
· Score: 1
Near the end of the transcript of the "forum" at the expo, ESR says "Without Stallman, none of us would be here right now" and got a standing ovation.
I think this "split" is cooked up by others. ESR may have different ideas, but he speaks to a different crowd. I don't think he begrudges RMS credit for founding the whole thing.
Also, it may be worth noting that ESR is an ultra-rightist who seems to like quoting the NRA. RMS, while probably not a Marxist, is decidedly Populist in his views on ownership and freedom. There's bound to be some differences between the two.
(The Marxist bit is not intended to be an indictment or flamebait. That's just how I read the situation.)
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
OK, so if i, as a Thai citizen, was to go out and write a piece of software that blatantly violates a US patent, say i used the LZW and MP3 compression algorithms, without paying Compuserve or the Fraunhoefer institute or whoever the hell they are any royalties whatsoever, and put my product up on the internet for unrestricted downloading into the US and elsewhere, does that make me liable for anything? Is the person who downloads the software then responsible for violating US patent law?
Yes. I believe that is correct.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
During the period that Japan was allowing foreign companies to set up shop, the companies could only do so after licensing some Japanese company ALL their patents.
And I think Thailand may not have any copyright law whatsoever. Can anyone verify?
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I get whoopity-ass kernel compile speeds (make -j3), but I can find little else under Linux that supports threads. The official list names about 20 different programs, including Roxen, Blender, and (my favorite) the Ultima Online client.
I wish Enlightenment or gnome or X supported threads. That's where I need my main power boost.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
^ May I quote you on this? If this is true, then why is it that everyone in Linux is awaiting the ports of all these different applications from the wintel platform.
We like the warm fuzzies that come with outfits like Oracle telling us that our software is better for running big RDBMS's than MS's billion-dollar babies. Aside from that, we don't need the support of commercial vendors, at least I don't.
In regards to the GUI. Xerox may have invented the GUI, but it never came anything even close to being capable of leaving the lab.
Actually, Xerox didn't really invent the idea of the GUI. It had been available (and usable) for DEC machines previously.
Steve Jobs _made_ it a reality. This is called innovation. It is one of the finer points of capitalism.
Point of order. Jobs came up with the idea for the pretty case and picked the color beige. Jobs is a visionary, not a hacker.
Many of the Mac developers were the same folks who worked at PARC. They left for Apple because their ideas were going nowhere under Xerox management.
Ok, so maybe RMS was still in academia at the time of Macintosh's development. But this does not let Free software off the hook. Why is there no half powerfull GUI word processors, spreadsheet programs, MRP systems, 3d software, first person 3d shooter games.
OSS hasn't been targeting the desktop until very very recently. These applications will come, but that hasn't been where the primary interest is. A keen first-person shooter takes a back seat to a stable underlying system. Hell, it was previously difficult to get hackers interested in graphical stuff at all. Gimp, Gnome, KDE, et al are very recent developments. Now that there are keen GUI's and graphic editors in abundance, folks uninterested in kernel work have a place to make their spreadsheets and games. They'll come. They're starting to already.
Why is it that, gulp, NT had true SMP before Linux.
NT still doesn't have true SMP. NT is also slightly older, and had much code contributed from the OS/2 project which is even older still.
Linux would not be where it was if MS wasn't such a crappy company.
...and MS would not be where it is if IBM hadn't been so clueless. What's your point?
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
So choosing not to say something is violating other people's right of free speech?
Did I say that?
Rather, it's a violation of my right of speech to be forced to say what I think.
?
In addition, property of any sort is a basic human right. If I choose not to give the means of making something to someone, I'm not limiting their freedom, since it's mine to do with as I please.
Yours under intellectual property laws, not by nature. Code is basically logic and math. People don't "invent" it so much as "discover" it. (that is my own opinion)
If you "invent" integral calculus, should you be able to prevent the rest of us from building bridges unless we pay you a royalty?
That doesn't stop someone from making their own version of the same thing however, which extends to mean that patents are worthless, as they actually do limit people's rights.
Now you're talking sense. Down with intellectual patents.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
The GPL was only written in the early 80's. There was a MacOS and most of the features we would associate with a "modern" PC before the first piece of software was ever GPL'd.
Now there is a sufficient GPL software to fill two Debian CD's and run an entire business without having to resort to payware, AND it is leaner, faster, more stable, more flexible, and better looking than anything else out there to boot.
So sad there's no streaming video under GPL for you yet today, but the field is still a new one.
Why don't you start a project to address these few remaining shortcomings?
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
There is also a big difference between an NT machine running as a server, and an NT machine that is on someone's desk.
Our data center also has NT machines that have not crashed in several months. BUT (big but) We have about 50 of them, and each does only one thing. One for DNS, two for logon, two for printing, one for mail, one for SNA, etc, etc. To make one NT server do 2 things at once is inviting trouble and downtime. NT admins know this, which is why these functions are so spread out.
As a workstation is where you can see how stable NT really is. When you have several programs open and running at once, NT's stability drops like a stone. 2-3 reboots a day are not so uncommon.
On the other hand, any out-of-the box Linux can handle mail, file serving, print serving, DNS and all the rest, plus extras like a database, X, gnome and several X applications and barely break a sweat (and not crash) for significant periods of time.
I concede the point that NT can be made to be tolerably stable. The way to do this is to not make it work very hard at all. All the functions of our 50 stable NT servers could be accomplished with 4-5 Unix/Linux systems with the same hardware.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I just got my first Alpha Linux box (164SX/533) up and running.
The startup time is very impressive. MILO pops up in about.1 seconds and boots the kernel. I have a login prompt literally 4-5 seconds after that. It really is amazing.
-- As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Slashdot Mirror
I can't tell by your tone if you're for OSS or not.
:-)
I do agree this is communism at its best, but I prefer the term "democratization of capital". It attracts less flames.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Anyone can make a pair of jeans. They're not frightfully hard to reverse-engineer, so people buy them based on looks and by brand name.
Redhat may end up the "Levis" of Linux, but how many different profitalbe brands of jeans can you name?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
As long as Red Hat uses their power for good, I don't begrudge them their success.
IIRC, redhat can be credited for:
The first Alpha distrubution (no longer the only one)
Championing E and Gnome (And employing Carsten the Rasterman)
RPM (though I like dpkg and apt better)
Kind of a swank set of installation systems that have been adopted by several other distro's.
Once they stop creating and start leeching, then I will have good cause to hate them.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
The concept behind the GPL could be traced back to 1840 and Marx, but I think RMS still deserves credit.
I think you'll find there is no such thing as a 100% new idea.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Near the end of the transcript of the "forum" at the expo, ESR says "Without Stallman, none of us would be here right now" and got a standing ovation.
I think this "split" is cooked up by others. ESR may have different ideas, but he speaks to a different crowd. I don't think he begrudges RMS credit for founding the whole thing.
Also, it may be worth noting that ESR is an ultra-rightist who seems to like quoting the NRA. RMS, while probably not a Marxist, is decidedly Populist in his views on ownership and freedom. There's bound to be some differences between the two.
(The Marxist bit is not intended to be an indictment or flamebait. That's just how I read the situation.)
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Stallman Fundamentalism Vs. Raymond Utilitarianism.
Can we add Laissez-Faire Torvaldianism to the list?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I tested SCO, NT, Warp4 and Netware at SVL (Server Validation Labs) at Intel. SCO was the most unstable of the lot. I was highly unimpressed.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
OK, so if i, as a Thai citizen, was to go out and write a piece of software that blatantly
violates a US patent, say i used the LZW and MP3 compression algorithms, without
paying Compuserve or the Fraunhoefer institute or whoever the hell they are any
royalties whatsoever, and put my product up on the internet for unrestricted
downloading into the US and elsewhere, does that make me liable for anything? Is
the person who downloads the software then responsible for violating US patent
law?
Yes. I believe that is correct.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
True. I have a whole drawer full of $2 copied tapes I bought at the local record stores in Zhong Li.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
During the period that Japan was allowing foreign companies to set up shop, the companies could only do so after licensing some Japanese company ALL their patents.
And I think Thailand may not have any copyright law whatsoever. Can anyone verify?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Should be the number of cpu's +1.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I get whoopity-ass kernel compile speeds (make -j3), but I can find little else under Linux that supports threads. The official list names about 20 different programs, including Roxen, Blender, and (my favorite) the Ultima Online client.
I wish Enlightenment or gnome or X supported threads. That's where I need my main power boost.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
EOF
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Is this an M$-tax-free linux box? ie, will the menu read:
[MS Windows 98 -- $195.00]
[Linux -- $ 0.00]
?
That would turn some heads, eh?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
^ May I quote you on this? If this is true, then why is it that everyone in Linux is awaiting the ports of all these different applications from the wintel platform.
We like the warm fuzzies that come with outfits like Oracle telling us that our software is better for running big RDBMS's than MS's billion-dollar babies. Aside from that, we don't need the support of commercial vendors, at least I don't.
In regards to the GUI. Xerox may have invented the GUI, but it never came anything even close to being capable of leaving the lab.
Actually, Xerox didn't really invent the idea of the GUI. It had been available (and usable) for DEC machines previously.
Steve Jobs _made_ it a reality. This is called innovation. It is one of the finer points of capitalism.
Point of order. Jobs came up with the idea for the pretty case and picked the color beige. Jobs is a visionary, not a hacker.
Many of the Mac developers were the same folks who worked at PARC. They left for Apple because their ideas were going nowhere under Xerox management.
Ok, so maybe RMS was still in academia at the time of Macintosh's development. But this does not let Free software off the hook. Why is there no half powerfull GUI word processors, spreadsheet programs, MRP systems, 3d software, first person 3d shooter games.
OSS hasn't been targeting the desktop until very very recently. These applications will come, but that hasn't been where the primary interest is. A keen first-person shooter takes a back seat to a stable underlying system.
Hell, it was previously difficult to get hackers interested in graphical stuff at all. Gimp, Gnome, KDE, et al are very recent developments. Now that there are keen GUI's and graphic editors in abundance, folks uninterested in kernel work have a place to make their spreadsheets and games. They'll come. They're starting to already.
Why is it that, gulp, NT had true SMP before Linux.
NT still doesn't have true SMP. NT is also slightly older, and had much code contributed from the OS/2 project which is even older still.
Linux would not be where it was if MS wasn't such a crappy company.
...and MS would not be where it is if IBM hadn't been so clueless. What's your point?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I was unaware that the developments at PARC were available for anyone else to review.
Just to set the record straight, I think the first windowing system was actually made for VMS.
That said, the mouse (and a windowing system that uses it), ethernet, and WYSIWYG are also PARC originals.
I know I'm leaving some out.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Alan, is that you?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I mean, come on, we're all capitalists here, right?
Hasta la revolucion siempre!
Er, I mean, no one here but us capitalists! Go Microsoft!
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
You are precisely the sort of person Einstein was talking about, aren't you.
.signature?
Brilliant quote by the way. Can I put it in my
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
No argument here. The thing is, there are about 500 company B's to every company A.
...Except the profit margins of poor poor company A.
A stands to lose it's edge, but the B's can only gain. What sort of companies make up the global software industry? B's of course.
Who benefits? Everyone!
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
So choosing not to say something is violating other people's right of free speech?
Did I say that?
Rather, it's a violation of my right of speech to be forced to say what I think.
?
In addition, property of any sort is a basic human right. If I choose not to give the means of making something to someone, I'm not limiting their freedom, since it's mine to do with as I please.
Yours under intellectual property laws, not by nature.
Code is basically logic and math. People don't "invent" it so much as "discover" it. (that is my own opinion)
If you "invent" integral calculus, should you be able to prevent the rest of us from building bridges unless we pay you a royalty?
That doesn't stop someone from making their own
version of the same thing however, which extends to mean that patents are worthless, as they actually do limit people's rights.
Now you're talking sense. Down with intellectual patents.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
OSS has evolved slowly?
The GPL was only written in the early 80's. There was a MacOS and most of the features we would associate with a "modern" PC before the first piece of software was ever GPL'd.
Now there is a sufficient GPL software to fill two Debian CD's and run an entire business without having to resort to payware, AND it is leaner, faster, more stable, more flexible, and better looking than anything else out there to boot.
So sad there's no streaming video under GPL for you yet today, but the field is still a new one.
Why don't you start a project to address these few remaining shortcomings?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
The entire concept of intellectual property is freedom-limiting. RMS assumes people understand this is what he is referring to.
I must say I never thought of it before I heard hi say it, but its true. Code is speech. Restricting speech is a violation of your rights.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
There is also a big difference between an NT machine running as a server, and an NT machine that is on someone's desk.
Our data center also has NT machines that have not crashed in several months. BUT (big but) We have about 50 of them, and each does only one thing. One for DNS, two for logon, two for printing, one for mail, one for SNA, etc, etc. To make one NT server do 2 things at once is inviting trouble and downtime. NT admins know this, which is why these functions are so spread out.
As a workstation is where you can see how stable NT really is. When you have several programs open and running at once, NT's stability drops like a stone. 2-3 reboots a day are not so uncommon.
On the other hand, any out-of-the box Linux can handle mail, file serving, print serving, DNS and all the rest, plus extras like a database, X, gnome and several X applications and barely break a sweat (and not crash) for significant periods of time.
I concede the point that NT can be made to be tolerably stable. The way to do this is to not make it work very hard at all. All the functions of our 50 stable NT servers could be accomplished with 4-5 Unix/Linux systems with the same hardware.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
I just got my first Alpha Linux box (164SX/533) up and running.
.1 seconds and boots the kernel. I have a login prompt literally 4-5 seconds after that. It really is amazing.
The startup time is very impressive.
MILO pops up in about
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.