Your country needs the cheap labour, the poor people needs the work.
That is all the justification *economics" requires.
That populist politicians and rabid quasi racist media can't live with that economic reality will not stop people trying to feel those economic niches.
Our taxes are a bit higher but few of us have to worry about medical care (which is not perfect, but in most situation for most people is perfectly adequate).
Obama is telling you the system needs reforming and half of you call him communist or worst for it.
I was reading in amusement your post since I am in the UK and didn't not know which insurance you were talking about and what could possibly cost so much.
If you were in the UK (or most EU countries) you would not pay a penny for your treatment and medicines would be very cheap or even free.
Typical USian, wrapping themselves in the flag at every opportunity.
The real problem for you and other developed countries is your consumerist way of life fuelled by unrealistic amounts of debt.
The Chinese are going to own you, big time, not because they are cheap labour, but because they save money and their consumption is not as conspicuous as the US's.
You may still convince them that they should become and idiotic consumerist society, where it is your birth right to own a car and burn petrol like there is no tomorrow, overeat on behalf of 2 or 3 people, and gett whatever you want whenever you want it, which is why you can have as many credit cards as you want.
Many US people around here are quick to blame others for the *relatively mild" economic problems they are facing (are you facing an Haiti situation in the US? No? Then pull yourselves up and stop whining), but are hard pressed to look at how their personal choices are completely unrealistic.
USians: you got a great free ride in the second half of the 20th century: that was an illusion, China, India and to some extent Russia were non entities economically, that is going to change, and no amount of patriotic nonsense is going to change that.
And by its own nature it is intrinsincally outsourceable (it is comical to see freelancing websites requesting web related contractors: 200 guys from India offering "outstanding costumer service" for literally peanuts)
Many people hiring think that satying too long in the same place is a sure sign that you are incompetent, since nobody wants you elsewhere.
Frankly one should not care about those things. Trust your gut instinct, when you should not be in a job anymore you will know (some people lie to themselves about this, but I think everybody knows when they are in a job that sucks, and this realization can come after a few days or after many years, YMMV naturally).
Haven't you seen the 2 or 3 postings a year on this venerable site asking if coding is an art? (akin to literay writing, painting or any other real artistic endeavours)
Many misguided folks around here truly believe that both endeavours are comparable, perhaps thinking that artists and coders, both being eccentric types, may share more traits than their often exasperating eccentricity (as somebody that has been associated with both groups of people during long periods of time I can assure you that they could not be more different from each other).
Also the geeks gloss over the obvious fact that coding is a bluntly utilitarian job, so your comparison to mechanics is quite apt (that does not mean mechanics and coders can't be creative, but they lose sight of the core of their profession at their own peril).
So you are hired to perform a professional service, and your brilliant sugestion is not to do the work properly but to follow the money?
What kind of "professional" are you? Not one I would want on a sensitive environment, since obviously you would not have the presence of mind to stick to security procedures.
There is certainly a problem if you don't bring on board of your suggestions the owners of your place of employment, but that is a problem of presentation. Part of the skill set of a Systems Administrator is to be able to convince people about why something is necessary and to ensure people will abide by what has been agreed.
Obviously you may have more problems enforcing the rules with people with political power in the firm, but that does not leave you of the hook from a moral, professional and most importantly, legal point of view when legality is relevant.
I have worked for big corps, and I am telling you in no uncertain terms that the CEO or majority shareholders, who earn millions per year, will not access my systems without following the procedures in place. This is actually a very easy case to make, since it would be for their own legal protection.
If you can't make a convincing case for your policies then you have to rethink them and to present them in a way that is attractive to the people that is being disruptive (i.e.: your ass will not go to jail)....
That on its own is enough reason to claim unfair dismissal.
Also there are rules about periods of rest and how many consecutive hours you should work.
Most people don't know this, or if they know it don't have the moral fortitude to confront their employers.
I am a foreigner in the UK and stand for my rights. Every employer that has suggested to me to opt out of the EU time directive has been told in no uncertain terms that is not going to happen, and since I am a nice chap I will forget about it. In other words I rock the boat because it is the right thing to do.
"In the programming industry, I DO have a way to answer the power of the boss: I find another job. And it works way better for me than a union ever would."
It is always entertaining to see how precious some geeks thing they are.
The evidence is overwhelming that programmers have zero power against their employers (heck, their wives are saying as much), but you valiantly suggest otherwise, against monumental anecdotal evidence.
If you don't say no then you will say yes forever.
Sad to see so many people with so little self respect and dignity (and please don't come with the "I need bread on the table". I do as well, but I plan in order to be able to afford to uphold my dignity...
Slashdot Mirror
Your country needs the cheap labour, the poor people needs the work.
That is all the justification *economics" requires.
That populist politicians and rabid quasi racist media can't live with that economic reality will not stop people trying to feel those economic niches.
So in the name of what do you expect them to feel at home?
Just for starters your space program and nuclear capabilities were designed by foreigners.
You did not have the talent.
I really don't know in which alternative universe some of you live. Your patriotism is scary, it clearly is blurring your reasoning.
Look at any company of note and they will normally be staffed with lots of foreigners which are clearly there due to merit.
Other countries paid for the basic education of those people, you get (or used to get) the best picking, and you still complain!
Unbelievable...
He is most likely already taxed?
You guys have no idea how the system works.
Our taxes are a bit higher but few of us have to worry about medical care (which is not perfect, but in most situation for most people is perfectly adequate).
Obama is telling you the system needs reforming and half of you call him communist or worst for it.
I was reading in amusement your post since I am in the UK and didn't not know which insurance you were talking about and what could possibly cost so much.
If you were in the UK (or most EU countries) you would not pay a penny for your treatment and medicines would be very cheap or even free.
Scoundrel communist ideas I am telling you.
What makes a country such is their people, countries are an human, not natural, form of organization.
Population of Australia is 21 000000 give or take.
Population of California is: 36 000000.
For comparison: Population of Mexico City's Metropolitan Area: 20 000000
To say California is so awesome because it produces more than a full Continent is frankly idiotic.
Typical USian, wrapping themselves in the flag at every opportunity.
The real problem for you and other developed countries is your consumerist way of life fuelled by unrealistic amounts of debt.
The Chinese are going to own you, big time, not because they are cheap labour, but because they save money and their consumption is not as conspicuous as the US's.
You may still convince them that they should become and idiotic consumerist society, where it is your birth right to own a car and burn petrol like there is no tomorrow, overeat on behalf of 2 or 3 people, and gett whatever you want whenever you want it, which is why you can have as many credit cards as you want.
Many US people around here are quick to blame others for the *relatively mild" economic problems they are facing (are you facing an Haiti situation in the US? No? Then pull yourselves up and stop whining), but are hard pressed to look at how their personal choices are completely unrealistic.
USians: you got a great free ride in the second half of the 20th century: that was an illusion, China, India and to some extent Russia were non entities economically, that is going to change, and no amount of patriotic nonsense is going to change that.
And by its own nature it is intrinsincally outsourceable (it is comical to see freelancing websites requesting web related contractors: 200 guys from India offering "outstanding costumer service" for literally peanuts)
There are jobs out there that I would not wish on my worst enemies.
There is nothing wrong to look for the money, as long as you are realistic about the pressures and frustrations you will have to face to obtain it.
There are banks.
And there are Banks (of the kind that need bailouts now and then).
Completely different beasts paywise...
... he was shafting you....
Many people hiring think that satying too long in the same place is a sure sign that you are incompetent, since nobody wants you elsewhere.
Frankly one should not care about those things. Trust your gut instinct, when you should not be in a job anymore you will know (some people lie to themselves about this, but I think everybody knows when they are in a job that sucks, and this realization can come after a few days or after many years, YMMV naturally).
If that is the case, then yeah, you are right.
If you get some more qualifications, get up to date and perhaps start consulting then the scenario is not like what you describe.
Assumiong that coding and literary writing are comparable activities.
The only thing they have in common is the tool used to produce their respective work.
Haven't you seen the 2 or 3 postings a year on this venerable site asking if coding is an art? (akin to literay writing, painting or any other real artistic endeavours)
Many misguided folks around here truly believe that both endeavours are comparable, perhaps thinking that artists and coders, both being eccentric types, may share more traits than their often exasperating eccentricity (as somebody that has been associated with both groups of people during long periods of time I can assure you that they could not be more different from each other).
Also the geeks gloss over the obvious fact that coding is a bluntly utilitarian job, so your comparison to mechanics is quite apt (that does not mean mechanics and coders can't be creative, but they lose sight of the core of their profession at their own peril).
So you are hired to perform a professional service, and your brilliant sugestion is not to do the work properly but to follow the money?
What kind of "professional" are you? Not one I would want on a sensitive environment, since obviously you would not have the presence of mind to stick to security procedures.
There is certainly a problem if you don't bring on board of your suggestions the owners of your place of employment, but that is a problem of presentation. Part of the skill set of a Systems Administrator is to be able to convince people about why something is necessary and to ensure people will abide by what has been agreed.
Obviously you may have more problems enforcing the rules with people with political power in the firm, but that does not leave you of the hook from a moral, professional and most importantly, legal point of view when legality is relevant.
I have worked for big corps, and I am telling you in no uncertain terms that the CEO or majority shareholders, who earn millions per year, will not access my systems without following the procedures in place. This is actually a very easy case to make, since it would be for their own legal protection.
If you can't make a convincing case for your policies then you have to rethink them and to present them in a way that is attractive to the people that is being disruptive (i.e.: your ass will not go to jail)....
But I am the kind of person that does not allow others to walk over my rights.
Somebody trys to pull a fast one on me I will make sure they have to account for their actions.
Most people tearfully refer to "putting bread in the table" and other justifications that frankly sound hollow, since it is normally pure laziness.
I look forward to my employer making a deposit in my account for the next 60 years.
That on its own is enough reason to claim unfair dismissal.
Also there are rules about periods of rest and how many consecutive hours you should work.
Most people don't know this, or if they know it don't have the moral fortitude to confront their employers.
I am a foreigner in the UK and stand for my rights. Every employer that has suggested to me to opt out of the EU time directive has been told in no uncertain terms that is not going to happen, and since I am a nice chap I will forget about it. In other words I rock the boat because it is the right thing to do.
So no pity or sympathy for you matey.
It is called a Union for a reason buddy.
"In the programming industry, I DO have a way to answer the power of the boss: I find another job. And it works way better for me than a union ever would."
It is always entertaining to see how precious some geeks thing they are.
The evidence is overwhelming that programmers have zero power against their employers (heck, their wives are saying as much), but you valiantly suggest otherwise, against monumental anecdotal evidence.
Laughable frankly.
I have never worked more than 40 hours per week.
If you don't say no then you will say yes forever.
Sad to see so many people with so little self respect and dignity (and please don't come with the "I need bread on the table". I do as well, but I plan in order to be able to afford to uphold my dignity...
I have worked in several industries and never worked more than 40 hours/ week.
Most geeks can't sustain a varied conversation, their social ineptitutde is now legendary.
Somebody in a company has to relate to the outside world and bring some realism. Geeks are not that people, which is why you need to manage them.
HR, back office, etc.
Not the guys that keep the tech alive.