This is a single example that doesn't support your assertion in any way. Your attempt to use misdirection is precisely what is wrong with people on your side of the issue. First of all, this air strike didn't involve a B-52 at all - as you had asserted. Secondly, this was not a deliberate targeting of civilians. I notice how you take liberties to avoid acknowledging how terrorists use civilians as shields. Its quite a double standard you adhere to.
Moreover, this is a singular isolated incident. I'm sure if you had "many" examples, you would have offered them up.
When you lie to yourself, you're the only one you convince.
A figment of your imagination, inspired by a fertile mixture of hate, ignorance and fear on your part. What is even more alarming is that people like you knowingly make up these lies as you go along, then operate based on them.
The reality is that after WW1 the west decided that attacking civilian populations was acceptable
It's precisely the opposite. Attacking civilian populations ceased to be acceptable as of the end of WWII, and by the end of Viet Nam warfare was impossible if it could not be accomplished with a minimum of civilian losses.
You're not even worth talking to, honestly. Go get educated. Get some facts. Stop regurgitating the propaganda you've been spoon fed all your young life.
Adam Smith never wrote or taught anything of the sort. I have read - cover to cover - the books which make up his "Wealth of Nations" series, and he is adamant about government non-interference in markets in order to allow the invisible hand to properly maintain equilibrium.
What you discuss sounds more like Karl Marx than Adam Smith.
'The use of indescriminate violence targeting civilian populations with the intent of effecting political or social change.' The problem is that you have political hacks who play semantic games because their not intelligent to understand it, or not moral enough to admit it.
So, your idea of real competition is to have a government monopoly establish free muni wi-fi networks?
You might want to look up competition in the dictionary.
(Hint: The study was paid for by the people that issued it. This isn't a university where they're selling opinion for grant money. Companies like Jupiter Research stake their entire existence on providing their customers with timely and accurate reports to allow them to take advantage of their own market position. Issuing tainted biased reports would put them out of business right fast.)
Seriously, you have less than a clue. You have -ix where x="a clue".
I'm sorry, I was operating under the impression that Sinn Fein was a recognized UK political party with four democratically elected members of parliment and over 200 lesser elected officials. I didn't realize that fundraising for politics was the same as buying bombs and killing civilians.
Let me get this right. You drove right into London. Then drove right the hell out. Thousands of commuters are now miles from home, and did you offer anyone a ride?
Yeah, I was staring at Dubya standing behind Blair during the press conference this morning and getting a creepy vibe. Crashing his bike into that Scotsman apparently left him with a few cuts and bruises on his face, which I'm sure the makeup artists worked on. (The Scot may have a sprained ankle. We need to keep Dubya off the Mountain Dew, apparently.) Not to mention that Bush never did a good job with his game face. If he was pissed, you could see it in his face. If he was saddened, you could see it in his face. I'm glad he's my President, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I invite him to be my poker partner.
The capital of Saudi Arabia is Riyadh. All you're proposing is the random killing of random Muslism, who may or may not be Saudi (or even Arab), considering Mecca's status as a pilgrimage destination.
It's not about retaliating against Saudi Arabia, it's about retaliating against Islamofascists of all nationalities. Along the lines of the original posters thinking, Mecca would be a perfect target.
Unfortunately, the original poster is a moron. Mecca is not where the terrorists are. They're in small towns and neighborhoods in Europe and the US where they can operate without intense scrutiny. All that is needed to combat them there is vigilance and resolve.
Put the crack pipe down troll. The IRA learned back in the 80's that they can't operate in US borders. Thats why they've moved to South/Central America and North Africa.
Hrm. Irishmen in the desert. There's a joke there somewhere.
Wow, stunning argument. Yes, I 'fudged' on the ballistic vests. The school books, on the other hand, are actually that cheap. It's called an 'aggregate expenditure'.
However, the point you pedantically avoid is still made. The City of Orlando WASTED money that could have been better spent. Of course, if you think toys like 'free internet' to placate the masses and divert them from the real corruption of Cities who hunt down ways to blow tax dollars aren't really a problem, then move to Orlando. They'd love you there.
Yes, we have alot of people who DO NOT HAVE healthcare. That doesn't mean they cannot afford it. It means they are unwilling to afford it. Poll people who complain about not having it, and you'll find them happily paying for cable tv, concert tickets, and making minimum payments on their credit card balances. We are a consumption-oriented society obsessed with instant gratification. That is not a health care crisis, that is a personal responsibility crisis.
...free market provided (aka privatized) city water and sewer services. They are few and far between. But then, once upon a time the city handled sanitation, and now it's usually outsourced.
Efficiency is everything. Delivering capable services for the lowest price is handled nicely by freemarkets. The problem - one you and your ilk are unwilling to acknowledge - is that all-too-often government gets involved. They drive the price up either through establishing monopolies (power, communications), or by competing and driving everyone else out of the market, then raising their own prices through usery fees.
And enough with the health care tripe. The "it's unaffordable" tripe has been debunked time and time again.
Your visions of potholes and children without schoolbooks are ludicrous, especially given that $30,000 isn't enough to hire a band director, much less revamp the police squad.
It'll buy 10,000 10th grade grammar books. It'll buy 1,500 ballistic vests. It'll hire a part time teaching assistant. It will purchase 600 street lamps which can brighten up dimly lit neighborhoods which are prone to crime. Or, as in the case of Orlando, it can provide substandard unusuable never available wifi access for a mere 50 people at a time.
When reality sets in, your brand of socialism becomes nearly impossible to defend without first ignoring the facts, doesn't it?
Oh, that $31,000 is taxpayer dollars that only benefitted a few hundred people only cost the taxpayers each a penny, so that makes it okay? And what about all the other useless programs that benefit few or none that only cost a penny? Seems to me it ends up being between seven and twelve percent of everyones income, which is to say millions. Look at your cities budget sometime.
And while you're on it, there is a huge difference between Seatacs 'free as in choice' and Orlando's 'free as in someone else pays for it' wifi schema: People who use the system at Seatac actually have a need to use it, and are willing to pay for it. It appears nobody was really using Orlando's wifi.
So tell me, what else could have been done with $30,000? School books purchased? Potholes repaired? Some bullet proof vests for the cops? Extra street lights in high crime areas? Any of the things a municipal government is actually supposed to be doing?
Private Industry that is doing work for the Government is often just as inefficient as the Government.
I would say they're worse. Economically speaking, government drove up the costs, and there's no market pressure to bring it back down. You see this in sanitation, privatized sewer 'authorities', or recently deregulated power coops that still enjoy a government backed monopoly (TVA anyone?).
OTOH, there's a growing accountability culture in government that isn't actually being matched in the private sector when they compete against goverments for customers. I can go to my city councilman with a problem on Saturday, and get an email by Tuesday fixing the problem. If I call the local sanitation contractor, the person answering the phone is in Bhopal India.
...you let the free market handle these situations. A bunch of Government Beauracrats spent oodles of taxpayer dollars, and ran the project almost three times as long as promised, and the taxpayers basically got bupkis. Private industry knew better than to waste money there. OTOH, if I'm within spitting distance of Schlotskies in this town, I get free high-speed wifi.
Given our current administrations interest in increasing law enforcement powers
I'd be able to take you seriously if you weren't one of those people who constantly spend their time thinking about how they blame something on the "current administration". Take 5 minutes out of your life to think about an issue without doing it in the perspective of 'how can I use this to bash Bush'.
The tripe is really getting tired.
And there have been thousands of instances of nations like Korea, China, Iran, and Syria staging attacks through computers. Why don't you hear about it? Let me ask you something. What law enforcement agency do you call when you find out your server has been compromised from an IP based in Pyong-Yang? I didn't think so.
Obviously this guy has never heard of espionage. *Most* (not all) hackers/crackers get in, poke around, and leave. I've known a few that actually fix shit on the way out, and leave friendly notes (though I think more highly of the do no harm crowd).
The *REAL* danger are corporate spies who not only want your secrets, but also plant spyware, or destroy infrastructure to hamper a competitor. There is also the growing instances of state-sponsored computer cracking whereby poorer nations (particularly the axis-of-evil states) seek to leverage the power of attacking information infrastructures instead of the physical infrastructure. Remember, the US didn't take down the Soviet Union by dropping bombs and shooting bullets. We bankrupted their ass in a nice game of 'keeping up with the neighbors'.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a single example that doesn't support your assertion in any way. Your attempt to use misdirection is precisely what is wrong with people on your side of the issue. First of all, this air strike didn't involve a B-52 at all - as you had asserted. Secondly, this was not a deliberate targeting of civilians. I notice how you take liberties to avoid acknowledging how terrorists use civilians as shields. Its quite a double standard you adhere to.
Moreover, this is a singular isolated incident. I'm sure if you had "many" examples, you would have offered them up.
When you lie to yourself, you're the only one you convince.
"The Tragedy of the Commons" was written by Garret Hardin in 1968, not by Adam Smith.
You may want to either get your shit straight, or quit now.
A figment of your imagination, inspired by a fertile mixture of hate, ignorance and fear on your part. What is even more alarming is that people like you knowingly make up these lies as you go along, then operate based on them.
It's precisely the opposite. Attacking civilian populations ceased to be acceptable as of the end of WWII, and by the end of Viet Nam warfare was impossible if it could not be accomplished with a minimum of civilian losses.
You're not even worth talking to, honestly. Go get educated. Get some facts. Stop regurgitating the propaganda you've been spoon fed all your young life.
Adam Smith never wrote or taught anything of the sort. I have read - cover to cover - the books which make up his "Wealth of Nations" series, and he is adamant about government non-interference in markets in order to allow the invisible hand to properly maintain equilibrium.
What you discuss sounds more like Karl Marx than Adam Smith.
Who said anything killing innocents - mindless or otherwise?
And how is Bush not a Statesman? And how has the oil industry done anything to cloud his judgement?
You can start making sense, or you can keep parroting the political talking points your thought-masters spoon feed you.
'The use of indescriminate violence targeting civilian populations with the intent of effecting political or social change.' The problem is that you have political hacks who play semantic games because their not intelligent to understand it, or not moral enough to admit it.
So, your idea of real competition is to have a government monopoly establish free muni wi-fi networks?
You might want to look up competition in the dictionary.
(Hint: The study was paid for by the people that issued it. This isn't a university where they're selling opinion for grant money. Companies like Jupiter Research stake their entire existence on providing their customers with timely and accurate reports to allow them to take advantage of their own market position. Issuing tainted biased reports would put them out of business right fast.)
Seriously, you have less than a clue. You have -ix where x="a clue".
I'm sorry, I was operating under the impression that Sinn Fein was a recognized UK political party with four democratically elected members of parliment and over 200 lesser elected officials. I didn't realize that fundraising for politics was the same as buying bombs and killing civilians.
Let me get this right. You drove right into London. Then drove right the hell out. Thousands of commuters are now miles from home, and did you offer anyone a ride?
Yeah, I was staring at Dubya standing behind Blair during the press conference this morning and getting a creepy vibe. Crashing his bike into that Scotsman apparently left him with a few cuts and bruises on his face, which I'm sure the makeup artists worked on. (The Scot may have a sprained ankle. We need to keep Dubya off the Mountain Dew, apparently.) Not to mention that Bush never did a good job with his game face. If he was pissed, you could see it in his face. If he was saddened, you could see it in his face. I'm glad he's my President, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I invite him to be my poker partner.
It's not about retaliating against Saudi Arabia, it's about retaliating against Islamofascists of all nationalities. Along the lines of the original posters thinking, Mecca would be a perfect target.
Unfortunately, the original poster is a moron. Mecca is not where the terrorists are. They're in small towns and neighborhoods in Europe and the US where they can operate without intense scrutiny. All that is needed to combat them there is vigilance and resolve.
Not all of the comedians are American either. Most of us aren't even awake yet, so you might want to redirect your comments to your own hemisphere.
Put the crack pipe down troll. The IRA learned back in the 80's that they can't operate in US borders. Thats why they've moved to South/Central America and North Africa.
Hrm. Irishmen in the desert. There's a joke there somewhere.
Don't worry, we're with you. These cowards will all pay for this.
Fine, you win. It's more important to argue about misplaced decimals than the FACTS, which are that Orlando wasted money. Go play now, trollboy.
Wow, stunning argument. Yes, I 'fudged' on the ballistic vests. The school books, on the other hand, are actually that cheap. It's called an 'aggregate expenditure'.
However, the point you pedantically avoid is still made. The City of Orlando WASTED money that could have been better spent. Of course, if you think toys like 'free internet' to placate the masses and divert them from the real corruption of Cities who hunt down ways to blow tax dollars aren't really a problem, then move to Orlando. They'd love you there.
Yes, we have alot of people who DO NOT HAVE healthcare. That doesn't mean they cannot afford it. It means they are unwilling to afford it. Poll people who complain about not having it, and you'll find them happily paying for cable tv, concert tickets, and making minimum payments on their credit card balances. We are a consumption-oriented society obsessed with instant gratification. That is not a health care crisis, that is a personal responsibility crisis.
So enough with the crap.
...free market provided (aka privatized) city water and sewer services. They are few and far between. But then, once upon a time the city handled sanitation, and now it's usually outsourced.
Efficiency is everything. Delivering capable services for the lowest price is handled nicely by freemarkets. The problem - one you and your ilk are unwilling to acknowledge - is that all-too-often government gets involved. They drive the price up either through establishing monopolies (power, communications), or by competing and driving everyone else out of the market, then raising their own prices through usery fees.
And enough with the health care tripe. The "it's unaffordable" tripe has been debunked time and time again.
It'll buy 10,000 10th grade grammar books. It'll buy 1,500 ballistic vests. It'll hire a part time teaching assistant. It will purchase 600 street lamps which can brighten up dimly lit neighborhoods which are prone to crime. Or, as in the case of Orlando, it can provide substandard unusuable never available wifi access for a mere 50 people at a time.
When reality sets in, your brand of socialism becomes nearly impossible to defend without first ignoring the facts, doesn't it?
You know what they say about assumptions, right?
Oh, that $31,000 is taxpayer dollars that only benefitted a few hundred people only cost the taxpayers each a penny, so that makes it okay? And what about all the other useless programs that benefit few or none that only cost a penny? Seems to me it ends up being between seven and twelve percent of everyones income, which is to say millions. Look at your cities budget sometime.
And while you're on it, there is a huge difference between Seatacs 'free as in choice' and Orlando's 'free as in someone else pays for it' wifi schema: People who use the system at Seatac actually have a need to use it, and are willing to pay for it. It appears nobody was really using Orlando's wifi.
So tell me, what else could have been done with $30,000? School books purchased? Potholes repaired? Some bullet proof vests for the cops? Extra street lights in high crime areas? Any of the things a municipal government is actually supposed to be doing?
I would say they're worse. Economically speaking, government drove up the costs, and there's no market pressure to bring it back down. You see this in sanitation, privatized sewer 'authorities', or recently deregulated power coops that still enjoy a government backed monopoly (TVA anyone?).
OTOH, there's a growing accountability culture in government that isn't actually being matched in the private sector when they compete against goverments for customers. I can go to my city councilman with a problem on Saturday, and get an email by Tuesday fixing the problem. If I call the local sanitation contractor, the person answering the phone is in Bhopal India.
...you let the free market handle these situations. A bunch of Government Beauracrats spent oodles of taxpayer dollars, and ran the project almost three times as long as promised, and the taxpayers basically got bupkis. Private industry knew better than to waste money there. OTOH, if I'm within spitting distance of Schlotskies in this town, I get free high-speed wifi.
I'd be able to take you seriously if you weren't one of those people who constantly spend their time thinking about how they blame something on the "current administration". Take 5 minutes out of your life to think about an issue without doing it in the perspective of 'how can I use this to bash Bush'.
The tripe is really getting tired.
And there have been thousands of instances of nations like Korea, China, Iran, and Syria staging attacks through computers. Why don't you hear about it? Let me ask you something. What law enforcement agency do you call when you find out your server has been compromised from an IP based in Pyong-Yang? I didn't think so.
Obviously this guy has never heard of espionage. *Most* (not all) hackers/crackers get in, poke around, and leave. I've known a few that actually fix shit on the way out, and leave friendly notes (though I think more highly of the do no harm crowd).
The *REAL* danger are corporate spies who not only want your secrets, but also plant spyware, or destroy infrastructure to hamper a competitor. There is also the growing instances of state-sponsored computer cracking whereby poorer nations (particularly the axis-of-evil states) seek to leverage the power of attacking information infrastructures instead of the physical infrastructure. Remember, the US didn't take down the Soviet Union by dropping bombs and shooting bullets. We bankrupted their ass in a nice game of 'keeping up with the neighbors'.