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Orlando Cancels Free WiFi Project
EvilStein writes "According to local news, the City of Orlando has cancelled the city WiFi project. The 6 month pilot program ran for 17 months instead of the planned 6, but in the end, it was costing the city too much money and very few people were using the service. Might other municipal WiFi projects go the same way?"
Someone tell them to stop, I'm in the middle of dow$£$"%[NO-CARRIER]
liqbase
From the article: But city officials said that only about 27 people a day took advantage of the program -- not enough to justify the $1,800 the city paid every month for the service.
Maybe naively I've been waiting for the propogation of wireless to be everywhere and always available and if not free, at least very inexpensive, and ubiquitous. The quote above snapped me back to reality. Sure wireless everywhere is the buzz these days, but how many people really need, or want it? I would venture even in the techno-elite slashdot crowd many wait for wireless everywhere but only a relatively modest subset of those would actually use it, and of all who use it, it would not likely be at great volumes everywhere (as in, that's kind of what it needs to be to sustain and maintain the infrastructure).
Wireless internet isn't the same as cell phones in the sense that wireless access to the internet is nice, but doesn't drive communications as does telephony. Wireless internet access is a nicety but until wireless folds neatly into existing or expanding other necessary infrastructure (e.g., cell phone) I wouldn't be surprised to see other experimental free wireless internet sites suffer the same fate (really the question asked by the article).
If a city as large as Orlando didn't sustain the experiment there are many other cities that would point to that as justification for not even bothering trying, at least not in the near future.
(Doesn't mean I don't want it, just means it's too niche-y a market right now.)
Officials in Orlando are pulling the plug on free Internet service. It turns out that certain downtown "hot spots" just weren't hot enough to justify the program's price tag. Sunday marked the last day of a pilot program that allowed free Internet access near Lake Eola Park. The pilot program was only supposed to last six months, but the city kept it going for 17 months. As many as 200 people using laptop or hand-held computers at once could check e-mail or surf the Web in the wireless zones. But city officials said that only about 27 people a day took advantage of the program -- not enough to justify the $1,800 the city paid every month for the service. The service may come back, city officials said, if they can find a way to expand the service beyond a few downtown blocks, and if they can find a company to foot the expense. Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
...you let the free market handle these situations. A bunch of Government Beauracrats spent oodles of taxpayer dollars, and ran the project almost three times as long as promised, and the taxpayers basically got bupkis. Private industry knew better than to waste money there. OTOH, if I'm within spitting distance of Schlotskies in this town, I get free high-speed wifi.
The problem as I see it is that people aren't ready/don't need city-wide wifi yet because the services aren't fully established yet. However the services cannot easily become established until the people are ready. They just need to go out on a limb and provide the services despite the cost. As someone once said, "If you build it, they will come." (eventually...)
Just need one more referral for a
Screw WiFi, I want free fiber connections.
-William Brendel
Why do taxpayers need to fund free WiFi when you can just get it from your neighbor's right out of the box, default install Linksys/Netgear/Airport router?
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I live in Kansas City. If the city put in free wireless in our downtown - nobody would use it. There's nothing in our down town to do .. after 5:00PM (except buy drugs, hookers, or be on a cleaning crew).
A city running something like that would give me the willies anyway. Who's to say they wouldn't be monitoring every piece of information - and/or someone sitting there with AirSnort doing the same..
= Grow a brain...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO%^%@13#^$3@#$*^&^No Carrier
It's not that big of a deal at least for the time being. If you want to get an access to the WEB just go to one of the hundreds of "*bucks" or other Coffee shops and pound away on the keyboard (you also will be able to enjoy the A/C as well - who wants to sweat their asses off sitting outside anyways!)
... and I've never heard of this.
Why not? I'm a technically inclined 20 something who would have used this, had I known about it.
I think that is the real problem here. Their target demographic didnt even know about it!
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
when projects like these really will take off.
We still live in an age where "most" people still cannot use a computer. Why implement free WiFi for the minority, when even they are yet to fully embrace it. Let's face it, we don't even really need it yet.
I'm always a little amazed that people will use the word "free" when they mean "taxpayer subsidized."
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
...it turns out it was a mickey mouse project.
I don't think they ever publicized that there was free internet available anywhere. But aside from that, I can't see how it would be convenient for anyone to tote their laptop out to Lake Eola, anyway. That's a very tiny part of downtown Orlando. This is nothing close to a city-wide public internet project. I don't see how this should have any ramifications for other cities who'd like to try it out. You've pretty much got to drive into downtown Orlando, and usually have to pay to park in a garage or on a lot somewhere, depending on what time of day it is. Most of the people down there who have laptops probably work down there in an office building and have internet at work.
You can get 4 Mb/s internet connection anywhere from free to $100/month. Who pocketed the remaining $1700 each month? Talking about corruption...
I don't believe in city government run internet but in free community wifi mesh networks - they work and very well - everywhere! In my town alone there a several free wifi mesh networks teaming up already and new ones popping up in the entire area.
Sounds great, doesn't it? Free WiFi for the entire city. No need to search for hotspots. No need to pay to surf while you're sipping your Starbucks coffee. But...realistically, who's going to use it? I'm a WiFi junkie and I keep forgetting about all these free WiFi initiatives. Also, we need to keep into consideration that first wee need a very mobile client base, people lugging around their laptops and then using them somewhere. When they do pull out their computers to work, it's usually at a hotel (which generally provides WiFi now) or at work (provided network) or at home (probably networked). I doubt anyone is going to cancel their Internet service at home simply because the city provides free WiFi. I'd much rather blame Comcast for a downed network than rely on the city. Like I said...it sounds great, but the logistics and cost of it all far outweigh the reality of the situation.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
...I live in Orlando and I had no idea the pilot program was going on. You'd think they'd advertise it somewhere - maybe even at the local university. In fact, I don't know anyone that knew such a project was in place.
Please just give me money, you can have your government-subsidized WIFI.
We have this crap in my town (one of the first in the country). Word is, it totally sucks.
The company that provides the equipment is local; looks like a typical corrupt local govt. deal.
SF, on the other hand, was WIFI all over the place, due to people just having open APs.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
The internet is a great tool - a channel for almost unlimited forms of information. It's potential hasn't even begun to be tapped, despite the wonders we've already seen. But to see more potential, we need a lot more than just access - we need people with the time, interest and freedom to explore that potential.
We don't see much of that anymore here in America. Few people have the time or interest to go beyond the mundane around them. The concept of progress has become the idea of people selling things to people, with little else involved. Science and education just aren't that important anymore, except for expanding markets.
Am I surprised this experiment failed? No - who is going to have the time to use even free bandwidth to try something new? Not many people anymore. We're just not interested.
That's not to say that it's a truly bleak picture - but we as a population do seem to be stuck waiting for progress to come to us, rather than going out and making the progress ourselves. We need science, social thought, meaningful public education, healthy debate and journalism, and a much greater interest in human progress.
It's not about liberalism versus convervatism - it's about humanity doing something to make the world better, so it's not such a horrible place. It's about doing something to outpace the destruction we're causing, at least on some level. It's about seeing beyond dollars, and using our vast resources towards creating a future where we all know more, not just avoiding the terrors that will never stop coming in new forms.
It's not experiments like these failing that we should be depressed about - it's that we have so very few experiments like them at all anymore (relative to population increase over time).
Ryan Fenton
Because, In Soviet Russia, WiFi Network shuts down YOU!
i've been living in orlando since last september and I have never heard of this. maybe that would explain the low users.
Private Industry that is doing work for the Government is often just as inefficient as the Government. And that makes them cost more because they pay higher salaries and normally have shareholders. The only thing that drives efficiency is competition, and the big Government contracts are often monopoly licenses (telecom's, transportation networks).
Or look at US Military contracters. No big ticket item is going to be purchased from anyone but the big boys.
A monopoly is a monopoly no matter if those in charge are accountable to taxpayers or to shareholders.
========
CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
was that they didn't really tell anyone either. I live in Orlando and I wasn't aware of this test project running... First I've ever heard of it was today... too late now I suppose..
figures.
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
I like how Government programs get cancelled due to initial lack of use....cancel the wifi, cancel the bus routes only a few people use....the government isn't a corporation, its there to help the people, not turn a profit. If only a few people were using a park would they pave it? If only a few people used the courts would they close them? Some things are just a public service, and WiFi is the public service of the 21st century.
That's right up there with the "free value added bonus" crap that companies try to pawn on people...
Though in this case, it costs X dollars to have a Y bits/sec network running.
You could have I subscribers pay X/I dollars to have it run and not likely use Y/I bits/sec each
OR....
You could have J taxpayers pay X/J dollars to have it run and likely hit the Y/J bits/sec average. The trick here is J is probably much larger than I.
Obviously I think as a community some control should be put on it. I'd say it's great if kids could be doing work/research while at the library or mall or outside somewhere and not have to be tethered. I'd find it enjoyable myself to be able todo that as well. Some form of packet shaping could make the system well contained and avoid abusers.
Though I agree with your sentiment. Things like wifi campaigns ought to be voted on by the people who are going to actually pay for it.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Municipalities have a valuable role to play in filing this gap. Municipalities have a long history of providing necessary services for citizens and stimulating local businesses. In the 20th century, municipalities built power plants and telephone lines when private services did not move fast enough. Our competitive power and telecoms industries today demonstrate that these services by municipalities complement private industry rather than compete with it. In addition, municipalities have a long history of spending money to benefit their citizens and encourage business development. They should have the same opportunity to offer public hot spots and broadband access.
From 2001- 2004 the United States dropped from 4th to 13th place in global rankings of broadband Internet usage. Today, most U.S. homes can access only 'basic' broadband, among the slowest, most expensive and least reliable in the developed world. Nearly all Japanese have access to 'high-speed' broadband, with an average connection time 16 times faster than in the United States - for only about $22 a month. South Korea, which has the world's greatest percentage of broadband users, and urban China, which last year surpassed the U.S. in the number of broadband users.
The solution is not to protect the baby bells and cable companies from competition; it is instead to encourage more competition. Communities across the country are experimenting with ways to supplement private service. And these experiments are producing unexpected economic returns. Some are discovering that free wireless access increases the value of public spaces just as, well, street lamps do. And just as street lamps don't make other types of lighting obsolete, free wireless access in public spaces won't kill demand for access in private spaces. Yet we will never recognize these externalities unless municipalities are free to experiment.
The average slashdotter has no wife.
Please don't get the impression that this was a city-wide project. In reality, the signal was only available over a few city blocks and one park in downtown Orlando.
This failure is clearly because of a poor location choice. The main branch of the Orange County library is only a block away from Lake Eola park where this project was centered, but no signal was available in the library when I was there earlier this year.
The real problem with this is how cities in the US are laid out. Cities in the northeast may have a lot of residents per square mile, but almost every where else, cities are very spread out. Maybe I'm only speaking for Miami here, but if you put WiFi in downtown no one would use it because nobody lives there. What is the city of Miami only has a population of 400,000. It's Miami-Dade County, where everyone inside considers themselves to live in Miami, which has the large population (2.3 million). Anyway, for this to work it's got to be done in residential areas, which are too spread out in most US cities (including Orlando).
Who wants stinking government internet anyway ? Corrupt local officials spying on your every move and sending logs back to GW.
Talk about untrusted network...
Only a complete buffoon would surf and do email on an government sponsored LAN. A completely bad idea.
Name two things in this town that were fucking goofy.
Oh...they must be relatives/friends of officials:)
Citizens are claiming in other posts, that they never heard of this.
hilarious
I don't understand why a city would offer this, why don't they also offer free telephone service and newspapers, its just as crazy a concept. I can understand why you would do it at attractions for example Baltimores Inner Harbor area. It makes no sense at all and is a waste of money.
A country-wide wireless network is being built in Finland. It will use Flash-OFDM technology at frequencies around 450 MHz. Here's the story in Finnish.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Why would the Government need to advertise this if you are so technically inclined? Sounds like to me you would just open your notebook and see an AP that you were able to connect. Didn't you notice it pop up in yellow or red in Kismet? Come on! You're a technically inclined 20 something! You don't need the man to tell you about a free Wifi AP!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Most of us around here didn't even know the city had free WiFi. They didn't bother to tell us. I guess the city assumed we would figure it out and advertise it for ourselves?
Now that I know about it, I'm sorry to see it go.
I hope they didn't kill the wireless in the library downtown though; that works quite nicely and is a great benefit when visiting for relaxation or research.
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
Although subsidized-WiFi isn't as important as subsidized health, housing, education, etc... at least it's a public service subsidy. Most government subsidies just go to a few corporate stockholders.
If you're going to push something like this in the civic sector, you need to push the non-laptop uses ... kiosks, for example. At malls we're starting to see health & human service kiosks provided by non-profits & public agencies. This would be a lot cheaper to do if WiFi was pervasive.
There is a similiar initiative being started in Portugal, in the city of Guimarães. The service is completely free, though it is in a testing stage.
The announce can be read here (in Portuguese) or here. (sort of translated to english by google translator)
I think the biggest problem that wifi services now face is the lack of good inexpensive batteries for the laptops. Having an one hour lasting laptop, I can't just go work close to an hotspot if I don't have a power suply at hand.
http://www.local6.com/contact/
Tell the city jerks....
1. Open bid it $1800 a month that's nuts
2. Cover the city not just one itsy bitsy park
3. Advertise it on the news....
Call it what it is, extortion/theft, even when the reader/listener can deduce it. At least use an appositive when referencing the lie.
i just moved to Orlando 2 years ago. funny thing, i learned about the wifi spot before i moved here from a link on the Orlando home page. After moving here i never heard anything about it again until now. i take walks around downtown orlando on my lunch breaks and would see the signs that marked where you could connect, but i never saw any other advertising.
My bets on why it failed are:
1. no one new about it, there wasnt much advertising for it.
2. This is Orlando, do you have any idea how FLIPPIN HOT it is outside. i knew it was there but would go to somewhere in doors even if i had to pay(starbucks). there were some buildings and resturants but if you had no business to be in them you really wernt invited in to surf the net in their AC.
3. Parking in downtown orlando is evil, unless you worked somewhere you would have to pay to park to use the internet.
in my lunch time walks i would sometimes see someone at a cafe or at a bench using their computers, but it was rare. they have mentioned its not gone for good and they may bring it back soon. they are putting in a bunch of new high rise condos downtown that will bring a lot more people and this may bring it back. i hope so, i wouldnt mind using it after summer is over.
thats pretty much my best post ever. I spent like 3 hours typing it.
It was only into my second week that I realized the wall jack in my hotel room provided internet access at no additional cost [sheepish grin].
Luke, help me take this mask off
Let the government do it. The bigger the governed body, the "better" your chances.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
$1800:mo for 6 months pilot, extended to 17 months, means they planned to spend $10K, but spent $30K instead. For a system to support "up to 200 people at once" - which would have been $9:mo, just in costs, for a hotspot. That's not "municipal WiFi", that's a token gesture, doomed to fail.
How much could they have spent getting people to know about the service, known to everyone in business as "marketing"? And with that kind of tiny coverage, what possibility could it have had to be meaningful as "citywide"? None at all. Philadelphia's project will cost over $10M, complete coverage for 1.5M people. And it will not just be some "hotspot startup", it will be a complete coverage, so people can forget about the network, and just get access to Internet content, services and people. That has a good chance of success.
--
make install -not war
Not only is Lake Eola a bad place to put Wi-Fi access (jogging, playing with the dog etc) it's really not somewhere I would imagine you would actually WANT to browse the net or check your email.. Picture this.. I nice lake, soft moonlight, you and your girl (oh wait, this is slashdot scratch the girl!) with a bottle of wine... and your laptop! Right... We also need wi-fi at hooters.... Cause I want to check my email there
It would be a lot less expensive, and actually make some sense At first I was shocked only 27 people would take advantage of such a great thing, I guess not to many people who live in orlando figured out they could just quit thier isp and save 10-40 bucks a month. I can see now how little it would be used if you live outside the city, or for some other reason you have to pay your own way.
$1800 a month? $22000 a year? That's next to nothing. They spend an order of magnitude or two more on color brochures to promote the city, I'm sure. And who measures how effective the brochures are?
The Orlando Convention and Visitor's Bureau had a $22 million budget in 1998. They collect a 5% room tax. They could spend a tiny fraction of that and put access points every 200 yards along the main drags of Orlando, partially subsidized by local businesses.
Make it a captive portal, pushing a web ad at people for a few seconds after they DHCP and try to access a web site.
Curator of the Jefferson Computer Museum http://www.threedee.com/jcm
If I still lived in Orlando I would of been one of those using the service, especially at Lake Eola Park. After walking around the lake I liked to sit at the Chinese pagota on the east side. Now it would of been even better if wifi was available around Park Ave in Winter Park, I liked the park there and the old East India Ice Cream Company. Alas East India closed years ago. I'd imagine wifi is available around Rollins College though.
FalconShould there be a Law?
the biggest friend of big business is big government. everyone on this site that hates big biz should be fearful of big gov't. big gov't sells its favors to big biz, if you fear one, you should fear both
While I have some concerns about big business I am afraid of big government, as you say, all too often government is the hand maiden of business.
FalconShould there be a Law?
The free market is self cleansing, it always will be.
What's the weather like on your planet?
Free markets are self cleaning, however we don't have a free market. What we have today is a corporate aristocracy.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Oh, that $31,000 is taxpayer dollars that only benefitted a few hundred people only cost the taxpayers each a penny, so that makes it okay? And what about all the other useless programs that benefit few or none that only cost a penny? Seems to me it ends up being between seven and twelve percent of everyones income, which is to say millions. Look at your cities budget sometime.
And while you're on it, there is a huge difference between Seatacs 'free as in choice' and Orlando's 'free as in someone else pays for it' wifi schema: People who use the system at Seatac actually have a need to use it, and are willing to pay for it. It appears nobody was really using Orlando's wifi.
So tell me, what else could have been done with $30,000? School books purchased? Potholes repaired? Some bullet proof vests for the cops? Extra street lights in high crime areas? Any of the things a municipal government is actually supposed to be doing?
Well, I've known about the WiFi hotspots near Lake Eola since roughly the day they were switched on, because I read the news. It really was all over the Orlando Sentinel and other local news outlets, although it wasn't revisited much after it began, so those of you who tuned in later may have had trouble discovering it unless you were Stumbling.
That said, I've tried to use it, oh yes I have. I took time out of my work day to take my laptop out to Lake Eola, thinking just maybe I'd get something done, but no, the signal sucked no matter what part of Lake Eola I was on, and even up and down Orange Avenue to a large extent. The coverage wasn't as nice as was officially documented.
And then I got my Verizon EVDO card, and I could work anywhere I dern well pleased, not just where there was WiFi. The future is here and its name is EVDO. Sure it's expensive, but you file long form, don't you? It's utterly deductible...
-AC
his website works.
;)
"404 Error
Gee, I've looked everywhere but I can not find http://www.afp548.com/News/index.html.
We're sorry, but the file you have requested does not exist. Please feel free to check the main page or the search page to see if you can find what you lost."
Point, the other guy.
I live in Kansas City. If the city put in free wireless in our downtown - nobody would use it. There's nothing in our down town to do .. after 5:00PM (except buy drugs, hookers, or be on a cleaning crew).
Downtown Orlando isn't Kansas City if KC is like that. There's a happening nightlife in Orlando, at least there was when I grew up there. Church Street Station was a busy place, I don't know if they still do it but a show used to be recorded at the Cheyenne Saloon for the Country Music Channel, and you could find quite a few people at Lake Eola Park. No matter what tyme of the day or night I didn't have to be concerned with personal safety. Of course it's been several years since I moved from there.
FalconShould there be a Law?
The cover article on the newest Linux Journal talks about the municipal network that has been developed in Wellington, New Zealand, and how it's set up, how it has developed, etc.
It's not that the Internet is free (you still have to set up and pay for an ISP account in order to get DNS to the rest of the world. Oh, yeah, this MAN is ISP-agnostic...), but if you're just doing stuff on their network, it's peer-hosted, fast, and probably good enough for most people, really. Probably what cable modems should have been in the US. But no, not only must companies provide the access, but they feel the need to shove their idea of the "Internet Experience" down everyone's throat, because that's what "people are used to".
Perhaps if they had done something like that, then it might have worked. I think they have probably given up on it too soon, too. And probably pulled the typical municipal boondoggle service routine - put it where no one is going to use it, thus ensuring its downfall, and justifying all the naysayers who said it wouldn't work (and who probably had a hand in implementing it to boot).
However, if they advertised it, I think alot of people would have taken advantage of it, and some of the sit-down restaurants downtown might have seen some business increase.
Yeah I could see more people going to either of the two Chinese restaurants on Orange near the library, if they're still there, or to Church Street Station. Maybe to Chapter's Coffeehouse if it's there now.
FalconShould there be a Law?
According to this orlando article, they are discontinuuing this particular service, and are possibly going to go to a different type of wireless service, using private contractors and using different APs, etc. They still like the idea in general, just not the way they were doing it.
When I'm in San Francisco I never take advantage of the wireless access from my ISP, or a pay service. All I have to do is run kismet, and pick an AP with a default SSID. It's usually an SBC DSL line or Comcast cable. Plenty fast, and probably illegal. I just SSH to my house where I'm running tor or a SOCKS proxy and just forward the port. Encrypted web browsing with decent speed pretty much anywhere. I've been successful in this endeavour in pretty much every San Francisco Bay Area city I've tried this is too. At this point, there's no point in paying for WiFi.
It's Orlando, after all. They must have been wishing they were Manhattan.
Places like Taiwan have been extremely successful at creating and maintaining city-wide wireless.
The key, I believe, is to keep wireless internet CHEAPER or just as cheap as wired internet... which means all you have to do is buy a wireless card to get internet for the same price as if you had to set up your own dsl modem, router, etc.
I don't know if Orlando's wireless worked this way, but if we set up those types of systems as they have in Taiwan, I think wireless would be a LOT more popular.
Btw: Wireless (at the speed of Cable) is US$10.00 per month in Taiwan.
- Relatively few people actually live in the City of Orlando. Most actually reside in the Orange and Seminole County suburbs far from downtown.
- Likewise, relatively few people visit downtown. Other than some offices and local government, downtown Orlando has been in a death spiral for at least a decade. The vast majority of economic, social, and cultural (what little there is) activity occurs in the suburbs as well.
- Since the majority of people who visit downtown are there for work, they probably have better internet connections from their comfy, air-conditioned cubicles.
- The City of Orlando has some good programs but suck at getting the word out. They are also disconnected from the needs of there residents. Just 4 blocks west of this hot spot is the Parramore ghetto, an area you'll never see in a "Happiest Place on Earth" advertising campaign.
In summary, with little motivation to visit downtown in the first place, I can't imagine many people out of the blue dragging their laptops to a downtown park for a free connection.Free city sponsored wireless makes sense in places like Austin and San Francisco which have sophisticated and centralized populations. For a blue collar, sprawling suburban metropolis like Orlando, it makes little sense.
Maybe Google could underwrite the project for Orlando. In exchange they could get that first page whenever anyone surfs the connection.
And it would give that dark fiber contractor guy something to do.
Free wifi huh?
it was costing the city too much money
Replace "city" with "unwilling taxpayers who were robbed at gunpoint by a few lobbyist nerds..." and you're right on.
Nothing's free, someone pays for it. Start a business, offer a service, do it that way.
Yeah, I want "free" wifi too. But I'm not going to use the Government to rob people in order to pay for my "free" wifi...
Lower price, better service, no Government monopoly... why is everyone clamoring for the Government to start running an ISP? You don't think that'll lead to censorship???
That's 810 connections per month, or two bucks each.
Assume for the moment that these were city employees. That's NOTHING.
I used to live in Long Beach, CA. They started a WiFi project and, like Orlando, it is a city that lives on convention income. As a benefit to conventioneers, this type of expense barely registers on the accounting books, yet it is GREAT PR.
Abandoning this sort of thing is just penny wise and pound foolish. It's a loss-leader. Get with the program.
Lake Eola is a 9 square block area. It is a single path surrounding a large lake. There are a few benches along the path, a small deck with 4 or five rocking chairs, and an outdoor stage with rows of metal-wire seats (100-200) where homeless people can usually be found sleeping and congregating. There are a few grassy areas, a kids playground and a few sculptures dotting the landscape. With that in mind, would you rather go to this park and either sit on a wire-seat with homeless people or on one of these benches with joggers and people feeding the pigeons and ducks in 90 degree(F) Orlando humidity without a power outlet or a table, or would you rather go to Stardust Video, a 5 min. drive from there, where they have a full espresso bar, a broad selection of beers, comfortable seating, your selection of popular and underground videos, occasional live music, and most importantly AIR CONDITIONING along with their free wifi?? I always went to Stardust.
I'm a programmer. I'm frequently on the road. There have been plenty of times where an emergency happened, and I needed to get on right now!!!!
Towards this end, I wrote a stupid-simple script for my Fedora Core Laptop that essentially is a "war driving" script. Basically, it runs 'iwlist scan' every 5 seconds, and does a pattern match to find unencrypted networks.
Typicaly scenario: I'm in my car, in some god-forsaken town, and I get a call on the cell phone. So, I cruise around the town, paying particular attention to find standard middle-class houses. (small enough to be densely populated, affluent enough to have DSL/Cable Internet)
Give me 5 blocks or so, and I find a spot. I park, login, spend 30 minutes and do the fix, and then go on about my day.
Anything important is encrypted, (imaps, ssh, https) so I don't worry about anybody sniffing my traffic. It's pretty fast, and I do it probably 1 or 2 times per month.
If it were EVERYWHERE, do you think I'd do the whole war-driving routine?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Kids *can* do research while at the library and not have to be tethered. They have these neat-o things called "books," which are actually quite portable. You can even take a few at a time home with you. Or... and here's the best part... you can take these "books" along if you go outside or to the mall; however, you may find it's exponentially harder to concentrate on research while in the mall.
i live in downtown orlando. i have taken my trusty laptop all over the downtown area several times in the past 6 months or so, and i have to say, i could never log on. never got a signal-- not the municiple wifi anyway. i know of a lot of other people who have had the same problem, so i ask: was it more of a technical issue?
But mostly, leave it to the coffee shops and hotels. They are now plentiful - a small market town near me with a population of about 8,000 has 2 hotspots.
Due to recent events in Orlando, FL a massive hacker migration has taken place. One hacker interviewed stated, "We waited 17 months for the promised number of victims to start using the service. On average there were 26 hackers to one associated wireless device. And this usually turned out to be somebody in their car, stopped at a stoplight with thier laptop running. So much for the gravy train....me and my family are outta this Mickey Mouse town!!!"
Here is the thing with this story, I am in Orlando working to assist in the cleanup of the hurricane related damages after last years storms. I had no idea that they even provided this service? I have seen the network show up on my network browse but since I couldn't connect, disregarded it. I have never seen any advertising for the service from the City of Orlando. If you don't tell people about it why expect them to use it?
Troll. MLB AM and Sun run MLB.com.
You may think it's funny to say "oh read books, nothing new is new..." etc...
... so be it. I think we're benefitting tremendously from it.
When's the last time your public library was stocked with papers out of Korea or China or Denmark or Austria or France or ? Things like citeseer are invaluable for the academic as they basically make local journals obsolete [while costing less at the same time].
Where I live the only non-children academic library that would even stock journals would be at the University of Ottawa which is a 20 minute car ride away and costs to attend.
What a local library does have that is handy are desks and the occasional references.
So if that means libraries 20 years from now are 80% computers, 20% physical books
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Well, the Wars on drugs, terrorism and piracy are about to impose that control! Ask prof. Lessig about DRM technologies and other means of controling the free software & free culture...
But what about building the network yourself? If you own it, you decide about CONTROL builded in the technology. Cheap Linksys WRT54G or MeshCube with OLSR, and many roof located omnidirectinal antennas - financed by their users, seems like a network of that sort.
I just wonder, do you think people would be interested in buying that 300$ worth equipment in your city/town/what_ever? Or yould everybody try to freeride with a laptop, or PC + directional antenna = using the free bandwith and not extending the network?
Maybe they meant free as in freedom, not free as in "without charge".
But seriously, if you can't use the word "free" for this, what can you use it for?
Maybe they meant free as in freedom, not free as in "without charge".
But seriously, if you can't use the word "free" for this, what can you use it for?
Well, maybe you can't, really. I mean... free sunshine, that sort of thing. But "free" WiFi just is not free. Someone has to pay for it. Whenever we disconnect, mentally, those sorts of services and the underlying taxes that pay for them, we get into that weird mindset that just jacks up taxes, inefficiently provides services, and sets another whole generation's expectations about what sorts of technology and services are just "part of the environment," as if WiFi and the huge infrastructure that makes it possible just grow on trees.
Don't get me wrong: there are things that government (state, local, federal) are absolutely the best providers for (emergency services, police, defense, roads, that sort of thing). But this isn't one of them, and there are going to be untold millions of people who are years and years away from owning anything that will connect to WiFi, and if they understand that they're footing the bill for internet access for the person with enough disposable income to afford that nice laptop or high-end PDA, that won't sit too well, and it shouldn't.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
This kind of sucks. This kind of thing won't really catch on unless someone gives it a chance. So, as I understand it, this was costing the city $1,800/month. Most cities piss this much money away every second. Why is that a big deal? Only 27 people using it per day? Well, that would increase over time. I see they tried it for 17 months, but is that really enough time? If they're worried about the money, why don't they subsidize it with payments? Set it up as a pay hot spot, and prompt for a credit card when you first try to log on. They could charge like $5 per week or even per month to make back some of the money.
What do we need to do to get more wireless connectivity in our cities?
Instant Karma's gonna get you...
But seriously, if you can't use the word "free" for this, what can you use it for?
Well, maybe you can't, really. I mean... free sunshine, that sort of thing.
Did you ever consider that maybe you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word "free"? Maybe, just maybe, you're the one who is wrong, and not the rest of the world? But enough about semantics.
Don't get me wrong: there are things that government (state, local, federal) are absolutely the best providers for (emergency services, police, defense, roads, that sort of thing). But this isn't one of them
I'd put this about on the same level as roads, though it's in the early stages, like when roads first started being built. That said, I think that we should charge for the use of public wifi just like we charge for the use of roads (and postal services, for that matter). With roads it's somewhat difficult to keep accurate tabs, so we go with the approximate solution of taxing gasoline, but with wifi it's much simpler. Of course by charging for wifi you lose anonymity, but hey, that's what encryption is for.
I agree that profiling is definitely required. Just randomly throwing wifi equipment around isn't a good use of money.
/. ;-)
But there are definitely "hotspots" that most cities don't cover such as malls and most libraries.
Sure the malls could install it themselves, except it would cost 15$ an hour [min one hour]. I'd rather pay an extra 1$ a month in tax then 15$ an hour to get net access at the mall.
Most malls go out of their way to make them pleasant to sit in [except for huge hubs like Syracuse]. So it would be nice to have that and some
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
If they wanted people to use the service, clearly Orlando was not the place. Sure you have a melting pot, of eltisit, "beautiful people", smart people, dumb people, and just plain losers there, but the fact is MOST people in Florida outsife of Miami, and perhaps Ft. Laud. and the deep south in general are not tech savvy, but most importantly, there Governor is Jeb Bush. Should we be surprised that any remotely progressive program in their state fails?
Orlando Cancels Taxpayer-Funded Wifi Project
Orlando Decides Internet Should Be Paid For By Internet Users
To everyone who thinks using tax revenues to pay for the internet is a great idea: Why stop with the internet? How about "free" gas for our cars (paid for by the city)? Think how convenient that would be!!
Freedom as in unjustified use of taxes.. King George is that you?
Just remember that when you're driving on the "taxpayer subsidized"way!
So why doesn't the city put out an open bid to install and operate city-wide wireless coverage for all of its agencies, then allow the wireless contractor to sell access to the system to the general public at a low monthly rate.
Increased efficiencies in city operations alone would justify the cost of operating city-wide wireless, then the wireless operator could turn around and offer access to the same system for city residents for a regulated fee far less than commercial internet access currently costs.
Such a wireless system would be privately operated for profit, but would be reasonably cheap for citizens to use because the city would be the biggest customer and would negotiate with the provider the rate that whould be charged to the general public.
Are any cities out there taking this approach? I imagine many city agencies are installing ad-hoc wireless networks across town already. Why not coordinate that effort, making it cheaper to install and operate the network city-wide, and then open it up to the public for a reasonable fee while they are at it?
...free market provided (aka privatized) city water and sewer services. They are few and far between. But then, once upon a time the city handled sanitation, and now it's usually outsourced.
Efficiency is everything. Delivering capable services for the lowest price is handled nicely by freemarkets. The problem - one you and your ilk are unwilling to acknowledge - is that all-too-often government gets involved. They drive the price up either through establishing monopolies (power, communications), or by competing and driving everyone else out of the market, then raising their own prices through usery fees.
And enough with the health care tripe. The "it's unaffordable" tripe has been debunked time and time again.
Just remember that when you're driving on the "taxpayer subsidized" way!
I don't know about where you're from, but around here we never stop talking about how much the roads cost the taxpayers. The connection between that service/infrastructure and the huge tax collections (from fuel sales, land development, etc) that fund it. No one characterizes the roads as "free." That's exactly why I'm bugged when a very different type of service (WiFi) would be characterized in that way - it's as if someone is trying to seduce someone else into something, only to later say, "Oh, you didn't think this would stay off of your tax bill, did you? Too bad! If we kill it now, all of those 20-year-old WiFi addicts who think it's 'free' will scream bloody murder."
So, better (just like with roads) to talk long and loud about who's paying for it, and how much.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Addison is the first city in Texas to offer municipal wireless covering the whole city. It was hung up for a while because SBC and other traditional carriers were lobbying the state government to outlaw municipal wireless, but that lobbying effort did not succeed.
The service starts in July, and will be $16.95 per month, no extra charges. It is available to anyone who lives, works, or passes through the city. Bandwidth is claimed to be around 1Mbps. So it's not free, but it is reasonable. It seems like a sensible way to pay for the installation and maintenance.
Come to Canada, where the health care is "free". Unfortunately the word free has been re-defined by the Government of Canada from "available at no cost" to "free to stand in line until you die, or get sick of waiting and go pay for it in America."
Some things governments do well. Roads and armies are two such things. Health care is not one of them, and all you have to do is visit a country that has a single payer system to see it in living colour.
See, "free" healthcare is actually just a government monopoly. It means you may only have the government issued service. You are forbidden to purchase the service elsewhere.
As in, you are forbidden from buying an x-ray at a nice clean private clinic with no line up. You have to wait in Emergency for ten hours with your busted leg in the same waiting room with the screaming kids, tuberculosis ridden winos and possibly some guy with SARS or something worse. Waitinjg times for things like hip replacements are often a year or more, depending on where you live.
Canadians are about to be relieved of this nightmare finally, the Supreme Court of Canada recently ruled that the government cannot forbid private companies from providing a medical service covered by Medicare if the public system has a huge waiting list. Nor can they forbid people from buying private insurance to pay for it. Thank God.
The availability of private health care is a social good, and private companies always provide better service for less money and with less waiting than government run facilities. This is an obvious, measurable, verifiable fact, much like the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
Furthermore the existence of an excellent private system does not mean an excellent public system cannot be provided for the poor, such as currently exists in the USA. You think the county hospital sucks where you are, visit the "free" hospital in Canada sometime. You'll get an eye opener.
Now, all of the above is easily available knowledge. The reason one cannot talk sense to a socialist is that they consistently deny the obvious truth and insist their way is the only way no matter how many times they fail or how many people die as a result.
You wanna see people die from something? Check out the number of fatalities on the cancer treatment waiting list, or the hip replacement list, or the cardiac bypass list, etc. ad nauseam.
Bottom line, if all else fails an individual can sue a private company and get restitution. You can't sue the government.
So my fine socialist, before you go casting aspersions on the "free market religion" have a look at your own dogma. See if your solution works befor jamming down my throat.
The "free" Wifi project in Oakland county may come to an end before it even starts. http://www.detnews.com/2005/technology/0506/14/B04 -214447.htm
Yorkspace
No matter what tyme of the day or night
You've been hanging around too many womyn.
Actually not. I started using the spelling for time as "tyme" a long tyme ago. In high school after I found the Oxford English Dictionary in the library I'd grab one of the 20 something volumes and read some of it. When I came across the spelling "tyme" for time I fell for it and have since used that spelling. It caused some temporary problems in some of my classes, as with American Lit, composition, and other writing classes when I had points subtracted for incorrect spelling. I'd then have to go and prove to the teacher or professor that that spelling was correct.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Yes, we have alot of people who DO NOT HAVE healthcare. That doesn't mean they cannot afford it. It means they are unwilling to afford it. Poll people who complain about not having it, and you'll find them happily paying for cable tv, concert tickets, and making minimum payments on their credit card balances. We are a consumption-oriented society obsessed with instant gratification. That is not a health care crisis, that is a personal responsibility crisis.
So enough with the crap.
Fine, you win. It's more important to argue about misplaced decimals than the FACTS, which are that Orlando wasted money. Go play now, trollboy.