I'm sitting here at home watching the Twins/Yankees ALDS Game 2 right now (which the Twins are winning, w00t!), and there was no chance involved in me waiting for the inning to end before I got up for a cigarette.
argument is that "Microsoft is probably planning to force all free C# implementations underground some day using software patents". Which specific patents would Microsoft use to do that?
See, you don't know. That's the funny thing about software patents, innit?
How could they do that given their public, legally binding commitments not to do this?
How could Microsoft break their word and their contract and the law and get away with it? The same way they've been doing it for decades. With money.
What reason is there to believe that applications written in C# are at a bigger risk of that than applications written in Python?
If you don't know the answer to this question without having to ask, you probably just shouldn't be making a fool of yourself by trying to participate in this discussion.
Projector not working? No, it can't possibly be that you forgot to hit Fn+F8; IT MUST BE VISTA!
If users are not able to find the options to do the things they want to do, maybe your operating system is not ready for prime time.
Stuff running slow? It's certainly not that a GAZILLION processes are running at the same time, along with the spyware you've accumulated from using IE to surf for porn and free stuff; IT MUST BE VISTA!
You're damn right it must be Vista. That doesn't happen to me on Arch (and I'm running a fully blinged out KDE 4 install on a Pentium D, fer cryin' out loud). It doesn't happen to my girlfriend's Mac that she's had for seven years. Yet it happens to every fucking one of my Windows using friends, family, clients, and acquaintances.
Now why do you suppose that is?
The killer features for me are the new tricks in Aero (the maximize and minimize features are solid)
You're on a forum full of people who use Compiz, Kwin, and Aqua, and you're sitting here talking about... Aero? GTFO.
and the refinements done in wireless networking (which finally feel as integrated as wired has been since forever).
Oh yes, I saw the "refinements" in the networking interface.
On a tangentially related note, why are all the proprietards on Slashdot stuck in 1996? Where are all the fresh new trolls? I mean, Slashdot damn near invented the modern internet troll, we have a tradition to maintain here. Y'all are slipping.
You are babbling utter nonsense. Who the hell, in the history of desktop computing, has ever heard "My email is broken" and replied with "Recompile your kernel?" WTF are you on about?
Oh, here I thought we were talking about stuff people used. Silly of me.
If that's the way you want to approach this, are you trying to claim that every random binary floating around on download.com is some paragon of usability?
To bring this back to earth, I'd bet that substantially more than half of the software (why, you might even call it a "vast majority") that's included in the Ubuntu ISO, just for instance, has had some manner of usability testing done.
There are entire job classifications based on the premise that Linux "doesn't work".
Name two.
There are entire job classifications based on the premise that the $10,000 copier you just bought "doesn't work".
I know, I used to do that for a living. But it's not a very useful metaphor for what we're talking about here. I'm not aware of any copier that doesn't involve a bunch of moving parts with the tendency to jam up. In short, we haven't figured out a way to build a better copier. (If you can, you'll get rich, and I'll come work for you.)
OTOH, we have built a better operating system.
You're a troll.
Troll is not a synonym for "someone against whom I cannot marshall a decent argument."
But why spend time and money teaching when continuing on with what you have works?
It doesn't work. There's an entire industry built on the fact that it doesn't work. There are entire job classifications based upon the premise that it doesn't work. And we (The People) are no longer in a position where we have the luxury of continuing to throw money at this woefully broken piece of shit.
It's not 1996 anymore, man. The vast majority of big, recognizable, sizable free software projects are corporate sponsored and people are paid to do this stuff.
I can't point to a study, but I do sell Linux machines to end users, and I have made several sales to older folks, which is about the only demographic left in my geographical area who have had either zero or "as near to zero as makes no odds" experience with technology more advanced than VCRs. They take to it as easily as anything else. I can't speak to "easier" or "harder," as I don't sell Windows machines and thus have no comparison.
One thing I can say (as has been said in this space before) is that often times, people who have no or very limited computer experience will have an easier time getting proficient with Linux than, for instance, a GenX administrative assistant who uses Windows, Word, and Outlook every day. And in all kinds of surprising ways.
Two examples that jump to mind immediately are the filesystem layout and the metaphor of virtual desktops. People whose minds have been poisoned by the Windows way have a really hard time with both those ideas. In the case of the filesystem, they can't understand the lack of drive letters, even though they can't explain why. In the case of virtual desktops, I'll show them the feature, they'll nod their head, and never use it, and I will be goddamned if I can figure out why.
I see what you did there. But I'll see it and raise.
First, there's a lot of software I use on a daily basis that either isn't available for Windows at all or requires a bunch of dicking around to get running. Sure, I can do about 75% of the things I need, as long as I'm willing to accept subpar applications that do a shitty job of what I'm trying to accomplish. Windows is therefore 100% worthless.
Second, if you can't name a dozen ways off the top of your head that the Linux desktop(s) are better than Windows, you've obviously never tried it and therefore have no place in this discussion.
"Jim! I'm on the Lynooks now, and I printed off 500 envelopes for the newsletter, but they're all rotated! I put the envelopes in this way, but they come out all wrong!"
You seriously overestimate the ability of a standard plebe to adjust to any change.
I have a bunch of clients that I've switched to Linux that would undoubtedly take great umbrage at this characterization. People aren't stupid by nature. But when you pound it into their heads that they are stupid, they'll internalize it. Most people have heard nothing but "computers are too complicated for you to understand," so that's what they believe. But it's bullshit. And it's usually being fed to them by bad people who are trying to pick their pockets. Which I guess is capitalism in action and probably won't change. But what I'm fucking sick of is this attitude coming from the geek community that "the proletariat just will never be as smart as us." It's obnoxious, it's offensive, and most of all it's fucking wrong. I bet you can't skydive. But if someone taught you you could.
Humans are great at adapting, but only when forced.
You might be on to something with this. Damn good thing for my business that Microsoft is great at forcing people's hands.
The repository cannot be the only source of software. In Windows, you know to run setup (the word makes sense) to install.
1. It's not. Most developers who release non-free software for Linux do something like setup.sh, which is exactly the same as setup.exe.
2. You're wrong. Installing software from a central repository is easier and more convenient and more maintainable and just plain better in every single way than downloading and running some random crapware's setup.exe file.
The "user" needed to be reached to make Linux a viable desktop OS are those who do not know what iptables and init.d is.
Nice strawman you've built there. Here, let me help you knock it down.
1. This doesn't have shit to do with repositories or installing software. What the fuck are you on about?
2. I'd bet you twenty bucks that not 1 in 20 Ubuntu users know what either of those things are.
My wife could not install and run the software she wanted to in Linux. She can on Windows and Mac and she has only used a Mac a few times.
So fucking what? I can't put a Playstation game in a Wii. Obviously the Wii is not ready for the living room, huh?
I could make a list of desktop software that I use every day that I can't install on Windows, either because it's not released for the platform (gmusicbrowser, Krusader) or it just requires a level of dicking around that I'm not willing to do (the last time I tried to install KDE 4 on Windows, which admittedly was a while ago). Obviously Windows is not ready for the desktop! Tell your friends!
Slashdot Mirror
That doesn't have anything to do with what I said.
and got elected democratically to lead the world's leading democracy
Actually he was elected by the electoral college to lead the world's leading republic. Which is an entirely different deal.
I'm not arguing with anything else you said, but the distinction's important.
you didn't mean working wireless, winprinter, or some osbcure webcam model.
Are you talking about Vista here?
Your example misses the ads by chance
I'm sitting here at home watching the Twins/Yankees ALDS Game 2 right now (which the Twins are winning, w00t!), and there was no chance involved in me waiting for the inning to end before I got up for a cigarette.
Am I a thief too?
argument is that "Microsoft is probably planning to force all free C# implementations underground some day using software patents". Which specific patents would Microsoft use to do that?
See, you don't know. That's the funny thing about software patents, innit?
How could they do that given their public, legally binding commitments not to do this?
How could Microsoft break their word and their contract and the law and get away with it? The same way they've been doing it for decades. With money.
What reason is there to believe that applications written in C# are at a bigger risk of that than applications written in Python?
If you don't know the answer to this question without having to ask, you probably just shouldn't be making a fool of yourself by trying to participate in this discussion.
Now shh, the grownups are talking.
Stallman has never programmed in either Mono or .NET.
No, surely not. Nor have I.
He has no idea what the relationship between C#, CLR, .NET, and Mono is.
[citation needed]
And he has no idea of what the legal situation is.
Yeah, the guy who has Eben Moglen as chief legal counsel obviously knows nothing about technology law. Don't be fucking dense.
Done. You don't by chance have any remotely fresh trolls to entertain us with, do you?
Projector not working? No, it can't possibly be that you forgot to hit Fn+F8; IT MUST BE VISTA!
If users are not able to find the options to do the things they want to do, maybe your operating system is not ready for prime time.
Stuff running slow? It's certainly not that a GAZILLION processes are running at the same time, along with the spyware you've accumulated from using IE to surf for porn and free stuff; IT MUST BE VISTA!
You're damn right it must be Vista. That doesn't happen to me on Arch (and I'm running a fully blinged out KDE 4 install on a Pentium D, fer cryin' out loud). It doesn't happen to my girlfriend's Mac that she's had for seven years. Yet it happens to every fucking one of my Windows using friends, family, clients, and acquaintances.
Now why do you suppose that is?
The killer features for me are the new tricks in Aero (the maximize and minimize features are solid)
You're on a forum full of people who use Compiz, Kwin, and Aqua, and you're sitting here talking about... Aero? GTFO.
and the refinements done in wireless networking (which finally feel as integrated as wired has been since forever).
Oh yes, I saw the "refinements" in the networking interface.
Yeah, because there are no companies that employ people to produce free software.
On a tangentially related note, why are all the proprietards on Slashdot stuck in 1996? Where are all the fresh new trolls? I mean, Slashdot damn near invented the modern internet troll, we have a tradition to maintain here. Y'all are slipping.
You are babbling utter nonsense. Who the hell, in the history of desktop computing, has ever heard "My email is broken" and replied with "Recompile your kernel?" WTF are you on about?
There is no anti-malware industry for Linux. What the hell are you talking about?
So that's a no?
Oh, here I thought we were talking about stuff people used. Silly of me.
If that's the way you want to approach this, are you trying to claim that every random binary floating around on download.com is some paragon of usability?
To bring this back to earth, I'd bet that substantially more than half of the software (why, you might even call it a "vast majority") that's included in the Ubuntu ISO, just for instance, has had some manner of usability testing done.
There are entire job classifications based on the premise that Linux "doesn't work".
Name two.
There are entire job classifications based on the premise that the $10,000 copier you just bought "doesn't work".
I know, I used to do that for a living. But it's not a very useful metaphor for what we're talking about here. I'm not aware of any copier that doesn't involve a bunch of moving parts with the tendency to jam up. In short, we haven't figured out a way to build a better copier. (If you can, you'll get rich, and I'll come work for you.)
OTOH, we have built a better operating system.
You're a troll.
Troll is not a synonym for "someone against whom I cannot marshall a decent argument."
I still get the predictable responses to requests for help with Linux software issues:
Can you provide a link?
http://guerrillatech.wordpress.com/about-guerrilla-tech/
Leave me a note with your email address, and I certainly will sign you up for the newsletter! :)
But why spend time and money teaching when continuing on with what you have works?
It doesn't work. There's an entire industry built on the fact that it doesn't work. There are entire job classifications based upon the premise that it doesn't work. And we (The People) are no longer in a position where we have the luxury of continuing to throw money at this woefully broken piece of shit.
The sad but true fact is that today, the vast majority of open source software *never* has any usability testing done.
-1 Bullshit
Do you think OpenOffice and KDE and Gnome and Firefox were all done in someone's basement? It's not 1996 anymore.
It's not 1996 anymore, man. The vast majority of big, recognizable, sizable free software projects are corporate sponsored and people are paid to do this stuff.
I can't point to a study, but I do sell Linux machines to end users, and I have made several sales to older folks, which is about the only demographic left in my geographical area who have had either zero or "as near to zero as makes no odds" experience with technology more advanced than VCRs. They take to it as easily as anything else. I can't speak to "easier" or "harder," as I don't sell Windows machines and thus have no comparison.
One thing I can say (as has been said in this space before) is that often times, people who have no or very limited computer experience will have an easier time getting proficient with Linux than, for instance, a GenX administrative assistant who uses Windows, Word, and Outlook every day. And in all kinds of surprising ways.
Two examples that jump to mind immediately are the filesystem layout and the metaphor of virtual desktops. People whose minds have been poisoned by the Windows way have a really hard time with both those ideas. In the case of the filesystem, they can't understand the lack of drive letters, even though they can't explain why. In the case of virtual desktops, I'll show them the feature, they'll nod their head, and never use it, and I will be goddamned if I can figure out why.
I see what you did there. But I'll see it and raise.
First, there's a lot of software I use on a daily basis that either isn't available for Windows at all or requires a bunch of dicking around to get running. Sure, I can do about 75% of the things I need, as long as I'm willing to accept subpar applications that do a shitty job of what I'm trying to accomplish. Windows is therefore 100% worthless.
Second, if you can't name a dozen ways off the top of your head that the Linux desktop(s) are better than Windows, you've obviously never tried it and therefore have no place in this discussion.
"Jim! I'm on the Lynooks now, and I printed off 500 envelopes for the newsletter, but they're all rotated! I put the envelopes in this way, but they come out all wrong!"
You seriously overestimate the ability of a standard plebe to adjust to any change.
I have a bunch of clients that I've switched to Linux that would undoubtedly take great umbrage at this characterization. People aren't stupid by nature. But when you pound it into their heads that they are stupid, they'll internalize it. Most people have heard nothing but "computers are too complicated for you to understand," so that's what they believe. But it's bullshit. And it's usually being fed to them by bad people who are trying to pick their pockets. Which I guess is capitalism in action and probably won't change. But what I'm fucking sick of is this attitude coming from the geek community that "the proletariat just will never be as smart as us." It's obnoxious, it's offensive, and most of all it's fucking wrong. I bet you can't skydive. But if someone taught you you could.
Humans are great at adapting, but only when forced.
You might be on to something with this. Damn good thing for my business that Microsoft is great at forcing people's hands.
The repository cannot be the only source of software. In Windows, you know to run setup (the word makes sense) to install.
1. It's not. Most developers who release non-free software for Linux do something like setup.sh, which is exactly the same as setup.exe.
2. You're wrong. Installing software from a central repository is easier and more convenient and more maintainable and just plain better in every single way than downloading and running some random crapware's setup.exe file.
The "user" needed to be reached to make Linux a viable desktop OS are those who do not know what iptables and init.d is.
Nice strawman you've built there. Here, let me help you knock it down.
1. This doesn't have shit to do with repositories or installing software. What the fuck are you on about?
2. I'd bet you twenty bucks that not 1 in 20 Ubuntu users know what either of those things are.
My wife could not install and run the software she wanted to in Linux. She can on Windows and Mac and she has only used a Mac a few times.
So fucking what? I can't put a Playstation game in a Wii. Obviously the Wii is not ready for the living room, huh?
I could make a list of desktop software that I use every day that I can't install on Windows, either because it's not released for the platform (gmusicbrowser, Krusader) or it just requires a level of dicking around that I'm not willing to do (the last time I tried to install KDE 4 on Windows, which admittedly was a while ago). Obviously Windows is not ready for the desktop! Tell your friends!
As opposed to the link that you did not provide?
Oh, wait, you're just talking shit. kthxbye.
s/sadly/thank $DEITY