That the OP couldn't find the setting is, I guess, a problem, although it's not obvious to me where would be a better location than the "Network Connections" item on the "System" menu.
I think it's not so much that Network Connections is a bad place for it, as it is that the Gnome System and Preferences menus are completely unnavigable and counter-intuitive trash.
So what you're saying here is that you not only did not read the article, you didn't even read the summary or any of the comments. If I had modpoints I'd mod you -1 Jerkoff.
But if you are going to stick by that decision then you need to face reality and stop spreading BS.
First of all, there's no need for that. We can be civil here. Yes, I used some derogatory phrases in my post too, but none of them were directed at you.
I call this the "hairyfeet challenge".
This is an interesting idea. I didn't actually do it, but I found the premise intriguing (although I found your choice of peripherals to be slanted at best, I don't know anybody with a TV tuner in their machine and I do this for a living too).
But to cover the bases... USB wireless sticks: Five years ago you would have been right. There were no devices with open drivers, and even getting binary blobs (or god help you, ndiswrapper) was hit or miss in the extreme. It's not like that at all anymore. I mean, come on, even Broadcom is opening up. This fight's all but over. And what won it was sticking to our guns. If companies want our money, they have to play ball. Turns out they wanted our money.
Printers: I've never once had a problem. Not once in nearly a decade. Hardly even heard of it. Frankly I don't know what you're talking about.
But ultimately it's irrelevant, and I'll tell you why. Because when you buy something that doesn't work, you go get your money back and buy a different brand. You can try to paint this as a "Linux is broken" debate, but it's really "this wireless card is broken." Isn't that what you would do if it didn't work on Windows? (This ties back in to "if the manufacturer wants our money..." This is how we win.)
I repeat-You have had 15 years.
Which ain't that long, all things considered. And really, it's only been any kind of serious force to be reckoned with for maybe half that long. I think we've been kicking ass and taking names, myself.
pretty much all the major corps that are gonna release their items as open specs would have done so by now.
This is totally false. See the wireless driver situation. It's improving every day, steadily for years. You lose a lot of credibility with me if you can't see that. And again, how did it happen? It wasn't by accepting table scraps. We stuck to our guns and won. Again and again.
But until I can hand a Kubuntu PC to my customer and have at least an 80% chance that whatever he picks up in Walmart will work
If 80% is your line (and I think that's reasonable) I'd say we're there. Okay, not with Kubuntu, but Kubuntu's a mess. But yes, go buy a printer or a monitor or a video card or a USB powered cup warmer. It works with no bullshit at least 80% of the time. I think 80% is probably low.
As I said, I don't make reality, I just support my customers.
There are laws in place that say you cannot ask someone to leave your place of business just because of the color of their skin, or their gender, or their religion, etc, right?
Yes, but it's a very high bar to meet. Basically to run afoul of discrimination laws, you need to have a sign that says (for instance) "no blacks allowed." In pretty much any other situation, private property really is that cut and dry. Just like most bars have a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Place of business, but private property. As another example, my local grocery store has signs out front that say "No flyer distribution."
I'm not trying to be a jerkoff either, I promise, and I'm not trying to pick your statements apart. And nowhere in any of these posts have I advanced any opinion at all, I'm not trying to argue a point or grind my axe or anything. I'm just trying to share knowledge. Actually, the only reason I know any of this stuff is because I did a paper on it in college:)
If you're calling anyone a pedant in this situation it should be the Supreme Court. I'm just telling you what the law says (although IANAL). Don't get pissy with me.
Why does the shopping mall have that right?
Because it's private property. You also have the right to kick people out of your driveway.
And no, you can't say "but then I can go into your house and mouth off about whatever the fuck I want" because then you'd be trespassing, and you cannot trespass on a mall unless it's closed.
This comment displays an astounding amount of ignorance about property law.
I mean if I am a hardware manufacturer it takes just three drivers if I want to support Windows past, present, and future with a binary driver. Four if I want to cover the niches. I just have my developers write a Win98/ME, A win2k/XP, and a Vista/Win7. I add a WinXP64/Vista64 and since Win7 can use Vista drivers I have everything from 1998-2014 completely covered with just four binary drivers and no more out of pocket. There just ain't a way to do that in Linux.
What horseshit. Let me tell you how we "do that in Linux." You release one driver. Just one open driver, and we'll take care of the rest, forever. Not just til 2014 or whatever arbitrary date you're throwing around. Forever. You never have to write another line again.
What's that? You don't want to release an open driver? You want to play the "follow the binary blob" game? Well then go fuck yourself.
Well, you're wrong. It's been upheld in courts across the country, time and time again. A shopping mall, for instance, has the right to tell you to leave if you're in the parking lot handing out political flyers. This situation is no different.
That's why it starts with "Congress shall make no law." Pretty straightforward.
Well, I can see that you have a problem with that, but what with you being an Anonymous Jerkoff and all, why the fuck should anybody care?
Yes, it says "not aimed at end users." On the front fucking page. If that's you, then this is not for you. Nor is it for you to piss and moan about.
When KDE 4.0.0 came out, people were bitching that it wasn't clear enough that it was not an end-user release. Now they're putting a big disclaimer right there, front and center, and you still find some reason to run your mouth. Die in a fire.
(Not the GP, but...) I can't argue with your first paragraph. KOffice's implementation of ODF, while improved dramatically in this release, is not fully compatible with OOo, and that's a pain in the ass.
Having said that, though, I'm really glad that KOffice isn't "joining the club with.doc and.xls." OOo seems to concentrate entirely on interoperability, and in a way they suffer for it. Whatever else OOo is, it ain't "cool" or "fun." KOffice, OTOH, has been focusing this development cycle on some pretty radical changes, both in the interface and the codebase itself. You know, actually developing software. I know this is a radical concept wrt office suites, but it's true.
If you haven't used the 2.x branch yet, you should at least have a look. It's unlike any other office suite. I don't like all the changes, it might not be your cup of tea, and it's a work in progress, but for cryin' out loud, at least somebody's trying. God knows it's not OOo.
Well, unless you're a gamer the "70 pound behemoth" is already pretty much gone. Small form-factor desktops have been around for some time, and on the really small end, you're starting to see "nettops" or whatever they're called, and you'll only see more of those as time goes on and they will become more general-purpose.
But I still don't see the general-purpose expandable desktop machine going away. They're cheap to make, Joe Tech can sell them out of his garage and turn an okay profit. Economics will keep them around for some time, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdumReductio ad absurdum
I mean, come on. God knows I'm not defending Scientology, but "How was I to know the nice man in the mall kiosk wasn't sincere about wanting to protect my mind from the aliens?" isn't exactly the start of a stellar legal argument.
Okay, you've made this same post in response to at least three different people that I've seen, and each time you just make this blanket statement, provide no further information, and walk away. If you've got something to say, quit dancing around it.
(I have no informed opinion on the Latter-Day Saints, positive or negative. All I'm saying is you sound like a douche.)
As long as there's a >$150 price gap between a comparably equipped desktop and laptop, and we live in a world where $150 is not trivial, the desktop's not going anywhere.
Usually I'd agree, but in this case it's not pedantic. Linux is a kernel. There are several different distributions of software that include the Linux kernel. Many of these distributions have many different updating mechanisms. It's not really possible to generalize them as a group. It would have been one thing if the GGP had said "apt doesn't handle massive upgrades well." But that's not what they said. They made a blanket assertion without even an anecdote's worth of backup.
You're wrong. The public's desperate for something like this, they're dying for it. They don't know it exists. Or if they do, they've heard that it's too hard and they're too stupid.
Try it yourself. Go pick a stranger in the coffee shop, tell them that their computer can have and be all the things that the GP listed, and then tell them they can have it for free, forever. 90% of the public will eye you like a fake $20 because to them it is simply too good to be true.
I think something you yourself said sums it all up pretty well:
They want to buy software on a store, simply because they do not know they can select it for free from the package manager and install it automatically...
What I parsed from that statement is that it's really not about what they want, it's that they're being lied to.
I have totally the opposite experience. In the last few years, in my primary coffee spot Linux laptops have damn near reached parity with Macs. If I had to pull numbers out of my ass, I'd call it Linux 10%, Mac 15%, Windows 75%.
FTR, I do not hang out at a techie coffee shop. I do hang out at a fairly socially radical coffee shop, which I think has a lot to do with it. Linux and free software are taking root among young, tech-savvy social progressives in a way that I don't think analysts are seeing yet. Wait til they have kids.
Linux is strong enough in the server market to allow me to make a living working with it. That's good enough for me. Yes, I use Linux on my own desktop (minus the Windows-clone desktop environments like Gnome and KDE), but I don't give a rip how many other people do.
That's all fine, and I'm going to argue with you. But to say that "Linux has once again failed to increase its share of the desktop market" is absurd on its face and in contradiction to every statistical analysis I've seen on the subject in the last several years and all the anecdotal evidence I see every day in computer labs and coffee shops. Where do you get that statement?
Yeah, I'm not knocking it (I mean, I do all the time, but I'm not now). But as far as security goes, yeah if you know what you're doing on Windows you're usually fine (I was for years, I know), but one is a system that you've never gotten a virus on, the other is a system that doesn't have viruses. That is more secure.
w/r/t speed, I don't really know a hell of a lot about tweaking XP for speed so I'm not an expert, but comparing stock installs, even Ubuntu was faster for me than SP2 and Ubuntu is the bulkiest distro I've ever tried. Slackware's like a rat with its ass on fire. But like I said, I am not an expert on the subject, my opinions are totally subjective, and YMMV.
I can't find any information on any previous Windows problems, or their lack. It wasn't mentioned at all. Here is the entire post:
I learnt this lesson the hard way when a close friend decided to ring me at 1am to bug me about a Linux problem. I don't even remember what the issue was, he was just a bit stressed cos he'd spent hours trying to figure something out and I had promised to help him whenever he had problems.
I told him what to do in about three sentences and passed out again. This taught me you don't encourage friends to switch to Linux.
Oh, and Ubuntu is a terrible start to Linux. Debian forever! (seriously: you only install Debian once, beyond that it sorts itself out)
Where in that do you get any implications (positive or negative) about Windows? You're going to have point me right at it, because I sure as hell don't see it.
Slashdot Mirror
That the OP couldn't find the setting is, I guess, a problem, although it's not obvious to me where would be a better location than the "Network Connections" item on the "System" menu.
I think it's not so much that Network Connections is a bad place for it, as it is that the Gnome System and Preferences menus are completely unnavigable and counter-intuitive trash.
meh, lets just clone the mac interface as close as one can without betting lawyer bombed by apple...
I'd slit my wrists.
So what you're saying here is that you not only did not read the article, you didn't even read the summary or any of the comments. If I had modpoints I'd mod you -1 Jerkoff.
But if you are going to stick by that decision then you need to face reality and stop spreading BS.
First of all, there's no need for that. We can be civil here. Yes, I used some derogatory phrases in my post too, but none of them were directed at you.
I call this the "hairyfeet challenge".
This is an interesting idea. I didn't actually do it, but I found the premise intriguing (although I found your choice of peripherals to be slanted at best, I don't know anybody with a TV tuner in their machine and I do this for a living too).
But to cover the bases... USB wireless sticks: Five years ago you would have been right. There were no devices with open drivers, and even getting binary blobs (or god help you, ndiswrapper) was hit or miss in the extreme. It's not like that at all anymore. I mean, come on, even Broadcom is opening up. This fight's all but over. And what won it was sticking to our guns. If companies want our money, they have to play ball. Turns out they wanted our money.
Printers: I've never once had a problem. Not once in nearly a decade. Hardly even heard of it. Frankly I don't know what you're talking about.
But ultimately it's irrelevant, and I'll tell you why. Because when you buy something that doesn't work, you go get your money back and buy a different brand. You can try to paint this as a "Linux is broken" debate, but it's really "this wireless card is broken." Isn't that what you would do if it didn't work on Windows? (This ties back in to "if the manufacturer wants our money..." This is how we win.)
I repeat-You have had 15 years.
Which ain't that long, all things considered. And really, it's only been any kind of serious force to be reckoned with for maybe half that long. I think we've been kicking ass and taking names, myself.
pretty much all the major corps that are gonna release their items as open specs would have done so by now.
This is totally false. See the wireless driver situation. It's improving every day, steadily for years. You lose a lot of credibility with me if you can't see that. And again, how did it happen? It wasn't by accepting table scraps. We stuck to our guns and won. Again and again.
But until I can hand a Kubuntu PC to my customer and have at least an 80% chance that whatever he picks up in Walmart will work
If 80% is your line (and I think that's reasonable) I'd say we're there. Okay, not with Kubuntu, but Kubuntu's a mess. But yes, go buy a printer or a monitor or a video card or a USB powered cup warmer. It works with no bullshit at least 80% of the time. I think 80% is probably low.
As I said, I don't make reality, I just support my customers.
Me too. And for me that means Linux.
There are laws in place that say you cannot ask someone to leave your place of business just because of the color of their skin, or their gender, or their religion, etc, right?
Yes, but it's a very high bar to meet. Basically to run afoul of discrimination laws, you need to have a sign that says (for instance) "no blacks allowed." In pretty much any other situation, private property really is that cut and dry. Just like most bars have a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Place of business, but private property. As another example, my local grocery store has signs out front that say "No flyer distribution."
I'm not trying to be a jerkoff either, I promise, and I'm not trying to pick your statements apart. And nowhere in any of these posts have I advanced any opinion at all, I'm not trying to argue a point or grind my axe or anything. I'm just trying to share knowledge. Actually, the only reason I know any of this stuff is because I did a paper on it in college :)
But you see, here is the problem- You expect everybody in the world to play your game. And they are NOT going to do it.
No, I expect those that won't play ball to fuck straight off and ultimately fail.
Accept the fact that the hardware manufacturers will give you a binary blob or you get nothing at all.
Intel, HP, and a host of other manufacturers say you're full of it.
Accept that you will never get Adobe to release Photoshop under the GPL
Can we stay on point, please?
You can NOT demand "open specs!" on everything, because you can see where that has gotten you.
Like hell I can't. And I'll tell you where it's gotten us: damn far.
But if you refuse to bend, if you refuse to accept binary blobs, then you are doomed to stay a teeny tiny niche. I'm sorry, but that is just reality.
One more time: You're wrong. You've been proven wrong time and again. And again. We'll prove you wrong again tomorrow.
If you're calling anyone a pedant in this situation it should be the Supreme Court. I'm just telling you what the law says (although IANAL). Don't get pissy with me.
Why does the shopping mall have that right?
Because it's private property. You also have the right to kick people out of your driveway.
And no, you can't say "but then I can go into your house and mouth off about whatever the fuck I want" because then you'd be trespassing, and you cannot trespass on a mall unless it's closed.
This comment displays an astounding amount of ignorance about property law.
I mean if I am a hardware manufacturer it takes just three drivers if I want to support Windows past, present, and future with a binary driver. Four if I want to cover the niches. I just have my developers write a Win98/ME, A win2k/XP, and a Vista/Win7. I add a WinXP64/Vista64 and since Win7 can use Vista drivers I have everything from 1998-2014 completely covered with just four binary drivers and no more out of pocket. There just ain't a way to do that in Linux.
What horseshit. Let me tell you how we "do that in Linux." You release one driver. Just one open driver, and we'll take care of the rest, forever. Not just til 2014 or whatever arbitrary date you're throwing around. Forever. You never have to write another line again.
What's that? You don't want to release an open driver? You want to play the "follow the binary blob" game? Well then go fuck yourself.
Well, you're wrong. It's been upheld in courts across the country, time and time again. A shopping mall, for instance, has the right to tell you to leave if you're in the parking lot handing out political flyers. This situation is no different.
That's why it starts with "Congress shall make no law." Pretty straightforward.
Yawn. I'm not interested in whether or not KOffice is now or ever becomes popular. I'd rather it be good.
Well, I can see that you have a problem with that, but what with you being an Anonymous Jerkoff and all, why the fuck should anybody care?
Yes, it says "not aimed at end users." On the front fucking page. If that's you, then this is not for you. Nor is it for you to piss and moan about.
When KDE 4.0.0 came out, people were bitching that it wasn't clear enough that it was not an end-user release. Now they're putting a big disclaimer right there, front and center, and you still find some reason to run your mouth. Die in a fire.
(Not the GP, but...) I can't argue with your first paragraph. KOffice's implementation of ODF, while improved dramatically in this release, is not fully compatible with OOo, and that's a pain in the ass.
Having said that, though, I'm really glad that KOffice isn't "joining the club with .doc and .xls." OOo seems to concentrate entirely on interoperability, and in a way they suffer for it. Whatever else OOo is, it ain't "cool" or "fun." KOffice, OTOH, has been focusing this development cycle on some pretty radical changes, both in the interface and the codebase itself. You know, actually developing software. I know this is a radical concept wrt office suites, but it's true.
If you haven't used the 2.x branch yet, you should at least have a look. It's unlike any other office suite. I don't like all the changes, it might not be your cup of tea, and it's a work in progress, but for cryin' out loud, at least somebody's trying. God knows it's not OOo.
Well, unless you're a gamer the "70 pound behemoth" is already pretty much gone. Small form-factor desktops have been around for some time, and on the really small end, you're starting to see "nettops" or whatever they're called, and you'll only see more of those as time goes on and they will become more general-purpose.
But I still don't see the general-purpose expandable desktop machine going away. They're cheap to make, Joe Tech can sell them out of his garage and turn an okay profit. Economics will keep them around for some time, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdumReductio ad absurdum
I mean, come on. God knows I'm not defending Scientology, but "How was I to know the nice man in the mall kiosk wasn't sincere about wanting to protect my mind from the aliens?" isn't exactly the start of a stellar legal argument.
Okay, you've made this same post in response to at least three different people that I've seen, and each time you just make this blanket statement, provide no further information, and walk away. If you've got something to say, quit dancing around it.
(I have no informed opinion on the Latter-Day Saints, positive or negative. All I'm saying is you sound like a douche.)
As long as there's a >$150 price gap between a comparably equipped desktop and laptop, and we live in a world where $150 is not trivial, the desktop's not going anywhere.
Usually I'd agree, but in this case it's not pedantic. Linux is a kernel. There are several different distributions of software that include the Linux kernel. Many of these distributions have many different updating mechanisms. It's not really possible to generalize them as a group. It would have been one thing if the GGP had said "apt doesn't handle massive upgrades well." But that's not what they said. They made a blanket assertion without even an anecdote's worth of backup.
You're wrong. The public's desperate for something like this, they're dying for it. They don't know it exists. Or if they do, they've heard that it's too hard and they're too stupid.
Try it yourself. Go pick a stranger in the coffee shop, tell them that their computer can have and be all the things that the GP listed, and then tell them they can have it for free, forever. 90% of the public will eye you like a fake $20 because to them it is simply too good to be true.
I think something you yourself said sums it all up pretty well:
They want to buy software on a store, simply because they do not know they can select it for free from the package manager and install it automatically...
What I parsed from that statement is that it's really not about what they want, it's that they're being lied to.
I have totally the opposite experience. In the last few years, in my primary coffee spot Linux laptops have damn near reached parity with Macs. If I had to pull numbers out of my ass, I'd call it Linux 10%, Mac 15%, Windows 75%.
FTR, I do not hang out at a techie coffee shop. I do hang out at a fairly socially radical coffee shop, which I think has a lot to do with it. Linux and free software are taking root among young, tech-savvy social progressives in a way that I don't think analysts are seeing yet. Wait til they have kids.
Linux is strong enough in the server market to allow me to make a living working with it. That's good enough for me. Yes, I use Linux on my own desktop (minus the Windows-clone desktop environments like Gnome and KDE), but I don't give a rip how many other people do.
That's all fine, and I'm going to argue with you. But to say that "Linux has once again failed to increase its share of the desktop market" is absurd on its face and in contradiction to every statistical analysis I've seen on the subject in the last several years and all the anecdotal evidence I see every day in computer labs and coffee shops. Where do you get that statement?
Yeah, I'm not knocking it (I mean, I do all the time, but I'm not now). But as far as security goes, yeah if you know what you're doing on Windows you're usually fine (I was for years, I know), but one is a system that you've never gotten a virus on, the other is a system that doesn't have viruses. That is more secure.
w/r/t speed, I don't really know a hell of a lot about tweaking XP for speed so I'm not an expert, but comparing stock installs, even Ubuntu was faster for me than SP2 and Ubuntu is the bulkiest distro I've ever tried. Slackware's like a rat with its ass on fire. But like I said, I am not an expert on the subject, my opinions are totally subjective, and YMMV.
Imply, v.: To express or state indirectly.
If you somehow implied anything about Windows from the sentence you quoted, well yeah, someone's definitely having some difficulty.
I can't find any information on any previous Windows problems, or their lack. It wasn't mentioned at all. Here is the entire post:
I learnt this lesson the hard way when a close friend decided to ring me at 1am to bug me about a Linux problem. I don't even remember what the issue was, he was just a bit stressed cos he'd spent hours trying to figure something out and I had promised to help him whenever he had problems.
I told him what to do in about three sentences and passed out again. This taught me you don't encourage friends to switch to Linux.
Oh, and Ubuntu is a terrible start to Linux. Debian forever! (seriously: you only install Debian once, beyond that it sorts itself out)
Where in that do you get any implications (positive or negative) about Windows? You're going to have point me right at it, because I sure as hell don't see it.
Yeah, all my elderly clients are like "WTF d00d? Where's my World of Warcraft?" If I had a nickel for every time it happened, I'd... be fucking broke.
In that order:
Yes it will, who the fuck cares, and because you can't put a Playstation game in a Wii. Don't be an asshole.