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Ubuntu 9.04 For the Windows Power User
crazipper writes "Know a Windows power user who is (honestly) good with technology, but hasn't yet warmed to Linux? Tom's Hardware just posted a guide to installing and using Ubuntu 9.04, written specifically for the MS crowd (in other words, it talks about file systems, mount points, app installation, etc). Hopefully, by the end, your 'friend' will realize just how easy Ubuntu can be to use and start down a long path of exploration with a new operating system."
Yessir! If there's one thing that will convince those M$ power users to convert, it's another tutorial about using Ubuntu!
I learnt this lesson the hard way when a close friend decided to ring me at 1am to bug me about a Linux problem. I don't even remember what the issue was, he was just a bit stressed cos he'd spent hours trying to figure something out and I had promised to help him whenever he had problems.
I told him what to do in about three sentences and passed out again. This taught me you don't encourage friends to switch to Linux.
Oh, and Ubuntu is a terrible start to Linux. Debian forever! (seriously: you only install Debian once, beyond that it sorts itself out)
Nick
Dr. Pepper is not a valid substitute for Mr. Pibb.
What I've found is that many Windows users are quite happy to try other operating systems, especially free systems like Linux. They download MS Virtual PC, install the distro, fiddle with it for a while, then return to their Windows world.
It's not so much that there is something wrong with Linux that makes them reject it. It's not even really rejecting Linux so much as simply not finding their needs satisfied on the system.
Maybe it's lack of apps. Maybe it's lack of quality. Maybe it's the pain of actually migrating over all their data.
Whatever it is, Windows users usually seem to find their way back to Windows because it just does what they need. Emulating the look and feel of Windows isn't going to change the fact that their needs aren't satisfied by Linux.
Printer won't work, "where's Live Messenger?", "how come my games won't work?"
I hardly see how this is a tutorial for "power users." The article makes out the terminal to be a big bad scary thing, but you'd think that most power users would at least be familiar with Start | Run | "cmd" | "ipconfig".
It's basically a walkthrough of the installation process that goes into more detail about partitions than is necessary. There's only a couple thousand of those floating around the Internet already...
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Hopefully, by the end, your "friend" will realize just how easy Ubuntu can be to use and start down a long path of exploration with a new operating system.
Right, because remember that no one can be your friend unless they use the same operating system. And all operating systems are bad unless they're the one you use. And everyone uses an operating system for everything because all operating systems are equally good at each of the several thousand tasks operating systems perform and function as for users.
As a Windows desktop user who has considerable experience with Linux (I run a bunch of Linux servers and spent some months exclusively with Linux on the desktop), I believe this is the wrong crowd to try to get to switch to Linux. Experienced Windows users simply don't have the problems about which everyone complains about Windows. Windows just works for experienced users who don't install viruses and ad/spyware. Windows hasn't crashed on me since before XP. Ever. Never frozen... nothing. I'm currently on 7, spent a year and a half on Vista, and the rest of the decade on XP (after it was released).
Technically inclined people who aren't programmers simply don't need linux, and programmers will already know about it.
That's my 2 cents.
It's simply a ball size competition.
MS is a playah and is willing to do dirty sneaky deals with OEMs to get their shit pushed.
Ubuntu, as FOSS, rightly stays away from such tactics, and unfortunately runs afoul of the fact that the majority of computer sheeple really couldn't give a clue about patents, open source, and whatnot.
Linux's technical strengths are also economic weaknesses.
What would help IMHO is for linux to have advocacy, a marketing department, and general user friendliness polishes.
But nothing except legal action is going to correct the fact that microsoft simply holds most of the IP cards, as proven by their ambush against TomTom which in theory could lock linux out of the flash-drive market, as well as any other device that exposes it's data with VFAT internally.
"But he has nothing on!"
"Therefore, this article will not tell you to compile anything from source code, and no sentence begins with 'bring up the terminal' or any other UNIX techno-babble."
Thank you. There is no reason to bring up the terminal today on a modern Ubuntu installation. If there is, someone isn't doing their job right.
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
They are going to have a much more difficult time trying to install Microsoft Office, Photoshop, iTunes, streaming Netflix, and playing games. But there's always Compiz for some fancy distraction: if you squint, you can almost pretend that you're watching a Blu-Ray!
I actually read the article and it seems to lack one important thing... Why? Why should a Windows Power User wish to install Ubuntu? I mean it is "free" but my time certainly isn't, so I guess what is in it for me? What advantages does it have over, let's say, Windows XP?
PS - "Free" "Open Source" "You can compile it yourself!" don't count. People don't buy software because it is cheap, they buy it because it enriches their lives or increases their productivity.
You mean you didn't install wine for them?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Tech Magazines and websites have been churning outthis kind of articles for long . This happens periodically with ubuntu as the release cycle is some what fixed, I don't think any power used will be converted reading this kinda article. Real power users are already on linux
In the fine summary, I mean.
Scare quotes? Like "he's not really my friend, I'm humoring him until he coverts to Linux."?
"so-called" quotes? Like "He's more than a friend, but I won't come out of the closet for him."?
I don't get it. It's distracting. It reduces whatever value this tutorial may have had. It certainly seems to reinforce the arrogant attitude "You're smart, I don't understand why you aren't doing exactly what I do."
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
When somebody is a "Windows power user":
a) he's really a Computer power user. You cannot be a "X power user" without knowing the internals, and of course all the explanation about filesystem and mountpoints is useless.
b) he doesn't need a "guide" to download an iso, burn it and follow a series of on-screen instructions to install anything.
Taking into account a) and b), probably your "windows power user" has already tasted some flavor of linux and decided to stay in Windows (inferred because he's a "Windows power user" and not a "linux power user"). If it wasn't the case, i.e. if he never tried a distro, it was probably because he heard some of the limitations of linux compared to windows (only a bunch of commercial games, no photoshop/whatever, etc.) and then no guide is going to convince him to change.
Or are we talking about another kind of "power user"? Maybe "average-but-no-stupid windows user" fits better with the TFA.
Migrating is hard.
If you have used same system for 10+ years, and probably invested great deal money to software specific to your platform, migrating away is big deal. On most cases, migration isn't just plug-and-play, it is a project that takes from 3 to 12 months to get everything running on new platform depending on the solution.
It is also expensive.
You likely need specialist help to get things running on your new system. Some of us have families and we simply cannot dedicate 24/7 of our time to prove that we can do same thing with other solution $2/year cheaper. There also simply aren't free alternatives to every task. There probably are linux/unix versions of these special programs, but they come with large price tag, and if you already have invested that same amount on platform you've found sufficient, you need very good reason to migrate away.
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
If you are too dumb to install Ubuntu, you're exactly the sort that SHOULD be using it.
That or MacOS...
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I'm not an MS fanboy... but using MS dev tools, writing software to work on MS operating systems, and with a user audience where MS software has a nearly-100% market share by choice... is my day job.
As such, I don't have the luxury of time either in or out of my regular work hours to explore other things. I'm busy enough keeping up with current trends on the .NET Framework, which is exactly what the folks who fund my living want and need me to do.
End of story.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
I skimmed over the key parts and think its a good article.
However i think there are some mistakes regarding his recommended setup: :P
10-30GB if your going to install lots of applications seams excessive, i fit my system in 4 and I'd be amazed if you could end up with >10GB for desktop programs perhaps 10-15GB would have been a better recommendation?
Swap should never be more than 1GB unless you plan on hibernating in which case 75% should be enough
(1473M with 951 swap hibernates fine), does anybody really use 4GB swap?
Also why would you use GNOME on ubuntu, KDE3 on debian forever!!!!!!!!
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
I purchased a bargain laptop not too long ago with Vista pre-installed, and I gotta say on a low spec computer it was a pretty painful experience. So my girlfriend convinced me to give Ubuntu a shot, and I gotta say I am really happy with it.
There has been a bit of a learning curve, and I honestly wished there was a built in tutorial explaining the OS better then just an on-line guide. Something that could directly compared the various tools directly to windows (Took me a while to figure out that you had to go to sessions to alter your startup) would have been EXTREMELY useful in my beginning days of Ubuntu.
The only lack of apps I've come across as an Ubuntu user is a lack of the same games that everyone else is playing, and I don't play any of those, except for one, which works. For free.
It seems to me like there's an app for everything and, best of all, I don't have to pay for or crack any of them to get them to work.
And those that suffer from issues (Openoffice, Firefox...) suffer them in Windows too; as do their MS equivalents.
I regret nothing!
74.117.115.116 32.97.110.111 116.104.101.114 32.80.101.114 108.32.104.97 99.107.101.114
It's not ready to the mass yet.
Yes. I'm Ubuntu user. And it's brilliant. Interface is great, lots of quality software to use.
But it suffers some bizarre problems you don't see on Windows.
For example, two weeks ago I bought an Agere PCI-E GB Ethernet NIC. First of all it works as expected, plug it in and it just works. However after some time the system has high resources usage all in a sudden and it got disconnected from the LAN. I thought I bought a dud, but it works completely normal on Windows.
After searching through the forum and launchpad for advices, it was found that if I compile and install the kernel module for the card it works fine. So I have to download it from Windows, and compile it after dual boot to Linux.
So, Ubuntu is a friendly OS only when you could get connected to the net.
I was going to Linux install "parties" as far back as 1995 but my career has led me away from the Linux groups of old and I hadn't really done much with Linux in recent years. I'm finally getting around to doing a home theater and decided I wanted the server to be a Linux derivative so I searched and it looked as though MINT had everything I wanted to do with a minimum amount of post setup for the media stuff. I proceeded to install on a fairly current piece of hardware and everything went smoothly until the first logon. The network card had been recognized but it would not connect no matter how much poking or prodding so I installed another network card and got the same results. I did everything I knew to do and still could not get it to work with my home network. Then I thought maybe it was MINT that had the problem so I proceeded to install the latest version of UBUNTU and lo and behold same exact problem. I searched forums, followed step by step guides and yet nothing worked. It would act like it was going to work and then just stop. So as someone who is fairly technical and has a little history with Linux I can say Linux is still not ready for the desktop. I'm sure there is something simple stupid I am missing and I'll feel like an idiot when I figure out what it is but the fact that it is occurring at all AND is so difficult to remedy make that statement valid.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
While I agree about not helping them install Linux for similar reasons, I don't think it has anything to do with your friend calling you up at 1AM. Only a total jackass would call you at 1AM for something that trivial unless they know you're awake.
Know a Windows power user
Please stop! The cognitive dissonance entailed within that phrase makes my brain hurt.
I actually know plenty of "Windows Power Users" who can probably run circles around me patching broken registries, applying service packs and otherwise working around Windows peculiarities. But when it comes to doing Actual Work, if Gates/Ballmer didn't build them a cute little GUI, it obviously isn't worth doing, or even possible to do.
I've spent a couple of decades working around brain-damaged engineers who thought that the end product of our department was a PowerPoint presentation. Let the staff in Russia actually do the analysis and CAD work.
Have gnu, will travel.
I once read a thread where posters advocated Firefox by trying to convince everyone else they were dumbasses for using IE. By the end of it, one person was completely convinced that the only reason anyone used Firefox is because they were bullied into it.
So when dealing with these issues, whether it be a web browser, an OS, or any other lifestyle choice, it's best to let people choose on their own.
And then you can call them a dumbass BEHIND their back.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
it's not about easy of use, it's about practicality.
You need to get that through your head.
Ease of use is just one aspect.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I say mod this +1 just for having a post which deserves to be modded down, but manages not to fit into any of the -1 categories.
"The GPL is viral by design, like any good religion."
...he is satisfied with his life and doesn't want to join your Jihad movement. Did that thought ever cross your mind? Seriously, the summary reads like some batshit insane minister going on a quest to Africa to convert everyone to Christianity.
"You could try it with the Live CD, but let's face it, that's little more than interactive screenshots. Without installing and running software natively, you really can't give it a fair shake. "
Interactive screenshots? Does he mean like a running software program? Barring saved preferences, how is software run from a CD different than a hard drive? Is it somehow translated when run from the CD? It's too foreign to be assessed?
This is the sort of rubbish that occurs when people publish first drafts; when their syntax may be correct but their ideas unfinished. This author should find a buddy who can proofread his articles. He might sound more professional during rounds two, or even three.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
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I'll admit I am a Windows person. I am a novice to linux based OS since college courses about four years ago. I am using a Dell Mini 9 netbook running Ubuntu 8.0.4. I setup my system just fine, wireless was connecting to my WPA-TKIP hidden network, and the world was grand. I did switch to the classic desktop instead of the 'netbook dashboard' that is default.
A few updates were available. I updated to 8.1 I believe. This caused my wireless to no longer be available and will no longer connect via NetworkManager since the updates. Yes, wireless network is still on and is able to be used by other Windows laptops.
So i updated to this newly touted 9.x version of Ubuntu using the Netbook Remix version available. Now I have this wonderful thing where apparently gnome-panel doesn't auto-start. So logging in I go directly to a blank desktop, no panels, no short-cuts, no nothing really. I can change my background and create a new folder on the desktop just to access my file system. I am a novice so I don't know how to get around this.
I have been on MyDellMini and short of 'rolling my own fix' and others pointing me to known bugs identified months ago with no fix nobody has been able to help me at all. SO from my standpoint this OS really is terrible for Windows people to come over. Sure, when they do they'll have to learn every inch of the OS because most if it doesn't work or they'll spend it troubleshooting problems that most of us Windows people have had experience doing since 95 release.
Thats just MHO though. I don't recommend it for anyone used to Windows. My recommendation for Windows users to jump over is to ignore Ubuntu like a venerial disease that is for some reason popular among some, and just go to Fedora or Mandriva. Something that mostly works as you'd expect. It will save you time having to google on your Windows machine why your Ubuntu machine doesn't function right.
I would probably be considered a windows power user and I just installed Ubuntu 9.04 x64 on my new 300 gig hard drive...the worst part of the upgrade? Getting my windows image to boot properly. Ubuntu 9.04 x64 worked after I had to reboot for my wireless card. Now, this is a Dell D620, so maybe it was standardized or Dell offers linux on it or whatever, but it was just as seemless (if not more so since I didn't have to download and install drivers for any hardware, just reboot) as installing XP from scratch. People seriously interested in Open Source software don't need an article like this, they'll already be there...I am going to install FreeBSD on my empty 100 gig partition but I haven't gotten around to it yet...
I recently installed Debian on a small web server that took a while to set up properly (had to deal with a small learning curve). Since then, I've installed Linux Mint 6 and Ubuntu 9.04. I'm impressed with both, but Ubuntu 9.04 reminded me of Mac OS X - everything just works, works well, and is simple to use. I was blown away at how far it's come since I tried a beta several years back. With that said, I'm a volunteer IT guy for a small non-profit (6 computers, 0 servers) Microsoft shop. The only reason we didn't migrate to Linux is that we have several documents, spreadsheets, and Publisher files that Linux simply does not have an adequate equivalent. OpenOffice is just not there yet, and Scribus neither is Scribus. Not to mention the pain in migrating the data from one platform to another. I copied a Microsoft Word file to a test Linux 8.04 box, opened it in OpenOffice, and printed it to the local printer. The layout, font, and overall look and feel of the printed document was very different than the same file printed from Word. As far as I'm concerned, as long as Office suites aren't as robust as MS Office, users will continue to use Windows.
If Linux had better support for wifi I believe more Windows users would more apt in switching. Right now I am runnig 9.10, which is very stable to be in alpha 1. I was unable to get wireless to work under 9.04 and couldn't find any solutions.
When we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.
In Ubuntu 8, installed late last year, I had to execute the display control panel as root in order for my video settings to be permanent.
I did this by executing it from a command line. What was my other option?
I'm not saying there wasn't one. I'm just saying it was neither clear, nor easily google-able at the time. The command line solution was easier to find.
I'm not running Ubuntu anymore. I couldn't solve a 10 minute shutdown problem so I gave up, as I pretty much always do (many installs over many years, not one ever went perfectly smooth, no matter how many HCL's I consulted).
***Really***?
Once a month? If that?
Games run their own rootless view and change resolution for that.
Maybe the reason why you continue to use windows is that you're shite? I mean, you can't even get the resolution of the screen right, can you?
As I read the negative posts, I just can't shake the feeling that many of them are professional astroturfers making sure the false FUD message "Linux isn't easy" gets spread thick and heavy. The tone and structure of the posts is just too... tidy.
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They need a killer, flashy, shiny look to the GUI. Might I suggest... Ponies! Lots and Lots of Ponies!
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(for some reason Hard Returns are ignored by /. on the Mac?, should be several paragraphs!!! not one big one??? /. - WTF?)
After reading an article about WUBI and the installation process for Ubuntu AND since I was reinstalling the XP OS on my Dell I thought it would be a good time to try Ubuntu and see what the hype was all about. So, reinstall XP from the hidden partition to factory. (BTW, smartest thing Dell ever did), install Firefox and flash, Goggle Earth, etc..., make sure everything works. Then straight to wubi-installer.org and start the download.
Couple hours later download is done and the installation has started. So far so good. Installation complete and boot for the first time. OH NO, PARTIAL VIDEO! Spend three days reading many posts concerning video drivers, ATI cards, and Ubuntu. Ah, here's the command. Remove driver through Linux command and reinstall OS driver the same way. Works but slow. Goto ATI site and download driver from them. Some troubles getting it to work then BAM everything seems to work just fine. Install firefox and flash. Seems ok, but wait flash boxes sometimes show blank but sound is ok. Weird! Unresolved! Install VLC, works but way slower than VLC on XP, barely plays video, hesitates, etc... Hmmm, install Goggle Earth, barely works way too slow to display, then stops working all together, starts menus etc but no display now. Frustrating!
So after playing around and getting things to work in Ubuntu I found that many tasks were much slower or wouldn't work at all. So now I'm pretty diappointed.
In the end I check my email, surf the web (mostly) from Ubuntu. I goto XP anytime I need to use an Adobe product. I'm a Graphic Designer and Adobe is the industry standard. Must have it. Now I need XP to watch videos with VLC, runs great and much faster with the latest version, scrubs video much faster now. When I do use Firefox I only goto selected sites I know are safe! Google Earth runs great Way Fast!!! Flash works every time on Youtube, big plus there.
Decidedly, Ubuntu is not a replacement for XP just yet. It does have potential. But for my uses I could never go all the way. Gimp doesn't even support CMYK modes, disappointing. Better driver support from manufacturers would be a big plus.
I still use Ubuntu for all the sites I would never go to with an XP box. Gotta like that! Also for email, any files go to the external drive if I need them on the XP side.
Well, that a summary of my experience with Ubuntu. wish it worked better and faster, etc... just gonna have to wait.
Sound in Linux still isn't completely stable across different hardware. I (knowing I'm going to be using Linux) buy specific hardware so I don't have issues at home, but other hardware (Dell Dimension anyone) sometimes have lots of sound issues. I have a a few guys at work with a Dimension E521s that have to reload alsa everyday due to something screwing off in Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04. (sudo alsa force-reload)
I have a feeling it is a mixture of Skype and Flash in Firefox doing it, but Linux should be able to gracefully handle this stuff.
So last weekend, I buy/build a new computer. My intentions are to use this as a Media PC for my basement. XBMC is awesome, and now runs on Linux. Great, let's get some practce using Linux.
Installation of Ubuntu is a breeze. So easy, very fast. (It's a good thing too). Ubuntu boots up fast, and even output it's video through the HDMI port on the back without any additional configuration. AWESOME!!
Cool, time to start installing apps. This is going to be running XBMC, so let's install. I go to xbmc.org click download, then choose Linux. Apperantly there is no download for linux, you use the package manager. Okay a little different than Windows, but sounds kinda fun. Sure.
So I learn about packages, and package managers, and adding third party software repositories, and signing keys. So far so good.
I follow the instructions, add some links to the third party source. I get key signing error messages (even though I followed the instructions 5[!] times trying to get it working). I give up on that, and just ignore the scary warning messages.
So I open the synaptic package manager and install the xbmc core. Everything goes great. A new entry is added to the "start menu" and all! It launches first try!
Cool, let's get some skins, from another thrird party source. I add it to the software sources again and reopen SPM to download. Download some skins but I guess I selected something wrong, because at next reboot, the computer will not boot to a windowed environment. All I get is the command line login and my password/user combo does not work. Lame.
Reinstall Ubuntu. Re add software sources. Can't find XBMC anymore! WTF?!?! It was worked last time. Reinstall ubuntu, still not working. GRR. Reinstall Ubuntu. No dice. anyways on the 5th time I got it working again. Still not sure where I went wrong.
Here are my thoughts on Ubuntu:
1) Installation is awesome.
2) Adding third party software is a MAJOR PAIN IN THE ASS!!! Following instrustions meant for a noob, I screwed it up 3/5 times. I swear I can follow instructions. I earn a living on fixing comptuer problems and following instructions.
3) Why do Linux programs close themselves? I dont' think they are crashing. Like I add a software source then hit close, it updates, gives me an error about my key not working, then terminates! So I have to reopen it.
4) Step 3 gave me an error, so naturally, I copied it to the clipboard. I click on okay and the error dissapears, terminating the program. My error, that WAS in the clipboard is now gone... Awesome.
5) Key signing for software packages is a pain in the ass & comlpicated. Surely there can be an easier way to get this working. How about downloading a file that contains the software source, and the key togeather and then import the file? I still can't get this thing working...
6) Synaptic Software manager's sorting is crappy. I open it up search for xbmc and see packages availalbe for installation. I can click the column headers and sort, but for some reason, when I select a package, the list unsorts! This makes it hard to select packages of similar type (skins in this case).
Overall, I think that Ubuntu is pretty cool, and I can't wait to learn more. However, given the issues that I came across, this is still not ready for the masses. Software installation is too convoluted and hard. I want to click to download, then click to install. Clipboard should not kill your data if the host program has been terminated. Programs should not terminate with no warning. Sorted lists should not unsort for no reason. Installs that will make your computer unusable should come with a warning.
I don't want to sound like Ubuntu is a POS, because that is not the case. I am impressed with a number of aspects, but there are sill a number of usability issues, IMO.
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By coincidence, a friend's Vista computer stopped booting after a series of power blackouts. Recovery disk didn't work. It was the straw that broke the Vista's camel's back. I suggested Linux, not expecting to be taken up on it. She said bring it on. I burned the latest version of Knoppix and Ubuntu and brought them to her. As it turned out, I didn't get a chance to explain what the point was of those two disks and she ended up taking them home and using them absolutely cold. Incredibly, between her and her son, also not a power user, they ended up installing and using Ubuntu. She got on FaceBook last night declaring she will never go back to Vista. She "shouted" it because her caps lock was stuck "on". As I posted a lengthy description of how to troubleshoot it, she fixed it herself. She says she really likes it, but she leaves open the possibility of going back to Windows 7. Incidentally, I use Gentoo, so I have little idea what she went through in the install. My impression is that Ubuntu Linux is ready for the Desktop.
Problems I encountered:
Windows 7 recognizes all my hardware, suspends and resumes without any problems, including bringing my wireless adapter back up and joining my network properly.
VLC player under Win7 works perfectly. No chop. DVD's are fine, etc. I haven't tried burning a disk yet, but I bet that Infrarecord is going to work just fine with it.
Except for the fact that linsux is *still* garbage. Always has been, always will be. And will the linsux fanboys ever stop blowing each other on slashdot? Everybody knows the only OS worth a shit is FreeBSD.
wait is this a again a flame war of windows 7 users and Ubuntu 9.04 users.
-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle
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You think you are a power-user when you know the depth of Windows registry, what all the files do, made your own slipstreamed installation DVD, and know all the cool tools.
But you don't know shit yet. And I didn't too.
The key difference: Bash scripts + everything is a file.
Seriously. I could never go back, because I became dependend on slowly growing my one-liners to whole applications, and integrating them into everything (cron, kde, config-files, etc).
And the other key difference is the full control of the kernel and services.
It's just another level of in-depth knowledge.
Of course the amount of stuff to learn is overwhelmingly gigantic. But this is ok, because you're a power-user.
I could not even imagine, how I would create a file system out of an encrypted compressed tunnel via http , which goes to a zfs-fuse or LVM2 disk system which is mapped trough an encryption loop. (Something I needed in a workplace with an idiotic firewall, so I could access my home server.) Or similar stuff.
The power to slap it all together out of small parts is just about the best thing that ever happened in computing, since transistors. :)
And the only sad part is, that the desktop environments completely ignore that philosophy, and fight over who imitates Windows the best. (Especially the dumbed-down "features".)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
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This is the credited response.
But if Linux was made as easy to use as you describe (Which is exactly the way I believe it should be) Would ruin the hacker image of Linux.
If Linux was so easy to use that anyone could do it, how could Linux users feel superior to everyone else because they spend lots of time hand configuring esoteric crap that should be handled automagically.
With converting my fiancee, is that when she emails pictures, she doesn't have the option of 'thumbnail view' in gnome, as well as the option to pick multiple pictures and being able to right click them and email them as resized copies.
This sounds trivial, but because of this, she is vehemently opposed to adopting Linux in general. I find it's all in the details for most people. It may seem like a 'Windows' thing, but really, it's a matter of simplicity, which she values.
And so I'm not off topic here, she IS a power windows user.
Ryan
Well, it's that time of year again, when the latest version of Ubuntu is released
You mean Autumn?
I hope they cover sitting around on the Ubuntu forums and IRC to get basic problems solved, because that's what Ubuntu is all about.
Do they cover how to fix its obnoxious slow flash issue right off the bat? I hope so!
I switched to using Ubuntu 9.04 for about a month. It worked great except for what I really needed it for. A solid money managing app and audio/video production. Also, I struggled to find a online back-up service that didn't cost more than Mozy or Carbonite. So I had to switch back to M$ unfortunately.
I installed Ubuntu 8.10 from within WinXP. I put it in the 'hidden' recovery partition on my Acer laptop. Well, it started off absolutely great with a menu on boot to pick which one I wanted. Loved it.
But after the first round of system updates I got a problem with
I reported a but here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/289718
but there has been no solution. I suspect the filesystem/formatting is the issue. I wonder if I'd have better luck formatting and installing Ubuntu from scratch- but I'm not willing to nuke my XP install.
And THATs why many of us who WANT to use Linux haven't switched yet. It's still got kinks.
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What I couldn't understand was all the negative digs here from
Now I get it...
This is awesome they have this, Any even generally skilled computer use can install Ubuntu and I think it's good that a fairly decent site is covering this.
Now in no way will this convert the windows users and it's not meant to but it will open the "Window" up and let them see the rest of the OS world. Who know maybe some of the die hard Windows for life fans will come and join the Linux for freedom fans.
Thanks
Docmur
They're just used to it. Both current and future releases of Windows are inferior to a well setup Ubuntu machine, assuming you don't need Windows games (which I don't).
I say this as a (former) lifelong Windows user. I recently switched jobs and decided that it's ridiculous to develop software for Linux using Windows. So I switched, and forced myself to stay there for a month, running Windows (for Outlook, mostly) in VMWare.
It's been three months now, and I can tell you, I'm not going back. Once Evolution starts supporting Exchange I may drop Windows completely. This is a bit of a scary thing to experience, too. It's as if you walked on crutches before, and then you all of a sudden discovered that you don't need them. I now have Linux everywhere and I actually PREFER it to alternatives. And keep in mind, as a former Microsoft employee I have access to their company store, so cost of software is not an issue here.
In addition to that, my wife switched, too. She had to take an online exam, and didn't know how to reboot our desktop PC into Windows. So she took it in Ubuntu. I then noticed she started using OpenOffice spreadsheets. Then I saw her browsing and playing games. Maybe I should throw a Linux partition onto her MacBook, too.
I wish I had a post to moderate you off-topic.
*Waits to get moderated off-topic*
It's not off topic. There is no topic in the original post...
'how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?'
"The GPL is viral by design, like any good religion."
I use Sun's Virtualbox, and have the ubuntu 9.04 running on it flawlessly. of course, having a decent midrange PC helps (amd phenom II 720, 4gb ram, onboard radeon 3200, asus m3a78-em). running ubuntu seamlessly gives me the perfect alt+tab between 2 operating systems I've always wanted! I'd suggest this rather than a seperate install for power users. of course, having NTFS will be an added advantage - since the virtual machine can be contained in a file larger than 4gb (fat constrain). I can delete the machines, you can save the state of the os - so booting the os next time is a breeze! the cream really is alt-tabbing between 2 OSes! i just love it!
'friend' .. the article seems to dehumanize windows users. Thats a lot of attitude and thats what puts people off to linux and tech people in general.
if( user == "Windows User")
{
impossible("Power User");
}
Every person has a story with how they got started with XYZ OS or distro. Some wanted to be different, know what was going on with their PC, wanted more control, hated MS, needs conformity to work standards, it came with their PC (the biggest reason), or even it was free (my reason). I am a RHCE, MCSE .. I know both operating systems quite well. I used to work for MS. My main PC at home runs Ubuntu 9.04, with VM server 2.0 with VMs of Ubuntu server 9.04, Windows XP, and a Mac OS 10.5.5 VM (just to see what the fuss is about).
.. But I think MS left behind what they had at the past. Windows 95 was $100. I stood in line at midnight to get it. I think spending several hundreds is not worth it. All of these separate versions are stupid. Good/Bad/Indifferent, it cost a former MS employee, and self proclaimed PC enthusiast to switch to Ubuntu as the base OS.
I was a Fry's and found a hell of a deal on a Mobo/CPU combo (quad-core Intel) and they also had tons of other things on sale that week. So I got a Q6700, mobo, case, 8GB DDR2 6400 RAM, 500 GB disk (SATA II), ATI x1650 (512 MB) card, DVD burner (SATA II), 450 Watt PSU, for under $400 bucks. Tons of rebates, etc. but I got it. I got Vista 32-bit from a friend (they went back to XP, but bought a new PC), but did not count on the 32-bit memory hole/limitation. Opps. Well I needed a 64-bit OS and well, what was a guy to do if he was not going to spend more money on an OS than the machine he just bought. Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit here we come.
It took months to get it setup correctly and doing the things I wanted it to do. I learned a lot of things that I never knew before dealing with GNOME and other exccentricities (like having to turn off my sound when it is not working because there is a feeback loop in one of the Mic Inputs - which Ubuntu will not let me turn off). I am happy. VM Server 2.0 is free - run my Windows XP box (purchased when I worked for MS), got office, VPN to work (required to be run from Windows XP, with only the corporate AV, and etc. so you can login - they are paying for my Internet access - better be able to login at night). I run another Ubuntu server version with LAMP and run some other stuff on there so that I can keep the core OS different from my other apps. I still have my 2k3 domain controller as a windows box for my other PCs (my family has 4 other PCs in the house, all XP) and a print/file server.
What is my point in this. The original post said power users. I am a power user. I know short cuts, I know a lot about the underpinnings of each OS. I want a tool - agnostic of implementation, just results. What it came down to is costs. I can download a 64-bit version of an OS for free. If I could get Windows 7 64-Bit for free, or limited cost (even $100 for the full version), then I might switch back. I need to do a lot of things, and love my rig
If by 'friend' you mean 'person who doesn't fancy working on a system that covers 5% of the world, and has accepted that fact' - I guess you're onto something... ...but it's the 'honestly' part that makes me laugh - you might as well say that anyone driving fords doesn't really know how to drive. Catch up chaps, you lost this race 15 years ago. (You did you know. It was in a couple of papers).
In the meantime, do keep wearing your 'lala I'm not listening' headphones. I'm sure the rest of the world will bow to your ideals and start using your OS....just not today.
Actual Linux usage compared to average linux coverage...what gives?
Nice 17 pages Ubuntu install guide. The 850 pages guide "Getting used to Open Office from MS Office" is yet to come.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
One thing that I've seen missing in every "Is Linux ready for the desktop" story is the good-enough-for-work experience.
I've used OpenBSD as my desktop system for many years. I'm a Mac OS X user now. At home.
I'm not using anything else, unless I'm _working_ on an open source project. Then I'd use OpenBSD or GNU/Linux. Otherwise, GNU/Linux is not suitable for my daily desktop usage.
In the other hand, Ubuntu has proven to be a good choice at my day job. Ubuntu may have its quircks when speaking of multimedia support, games, or specific purpose software, but it's good enough at networking and offimatic software.
We're in the process of moving PCs from Windows XP to Ubuntu at work (2000 PCs aprox.). Not every PC is suitable for OS substitution (because of specific purpose software), but many of them are (we've moved around 100 so far, we're a small team).
The problems we have had so far are printer drivers, wireless connections and in-house developed software. Most of them have been solved: using Windows drivers, changing printers, using cable, and using Terminal Server to access Windows-only in-house developed software.
Ubuntu may not be ready for my desktop at home, but it's ready enough for the office.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it
or a defacto reason. Netbooks will provide some users with defacto reasons (if the UI is comfortable/complete enough) but I don't believe the current crop of desktop Linux distros provide a particularly compelling reason for an average user to switch, really kind of like the Vista debacle where you could upgrade from XP but what would you gain? Linux is still a server OS with a desktop, it's interesting, it's powerful, but that just means it's compelling to a select group of people.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash (I'm a Linux/SUN/Windows system admin). I find it compelling, I'm just saying that for a person of average technical interest (a casual user) there's no huge gain to be had from learning a totally new set of tools, not yet anyway.
And think about what drives most decisions? Jealousy, desire. You see some gameplay footage you like and you decide you want the game. Yet surprisingly, few people seem to covet my brown Ubuntu desktop...
Quack, quack.
well, that all boils down to whether or not they "use brands" or "do stuff".
If they interact with their coworkers, they have to "use brands", at least until OpenOffice.org can run apps built with Microsoft Access 2007 and Visual Basic for Applications. And people who use iTunes Store have to "use brands" because the labels that put their music on iTunes Store usually don't put the same music on Vorbis stores, if any even exist.
"If you have 4 GB of RAM, your swap partition should be 4 GB." and the screenshot shows 4000MB.
Windows power users are probably the only power users, who don't know that 1 GB != 1K MB. Unfortunately setting your swap to 4000MB when you have 4GB RAM, will most probably make hybernation impossible.
"Funny, my nVidia panel asks me for my root login automatically (as with most [all?] items in the Administration menu)."
See, that's the behaviour I would expect and appreciate. Unfortunately it just set the resolution as requested but didn't save the state. Next reboot it was back to single monitor mode.
Or, if you have to use WINE, make the use of it completely seamless.
Err, like how? Build it into the kernel?
I suppose someone could implement a change to the kernel which would allow it, when someone attempts to run a binary format other than a.out or ELF, to try to identify the file type and run the proper program to execute the file... Make the feature configurable at runtime (i.e. have a startup script or config file inform the running kernel about how different file types should be handled) and then there's no need for actual integration of Wine or whatever into the kernel itself at all...
Nah, forget it. They'd never accept a stupid feature like that into the kernel. XD
Bow-ties are cool.
Play games on your xbox.
Unless the title you want to play isn't on Xbox or Xbox 360.
Don't have to reregister with MS every time you change your motherboard.
See: Xbox 360 red ring failures and Xbox Live.
Linux advocates... sigh.
Do you think "easy" is any sort of attractor? It's not.
Did we become Windows Power Users by seeking easy options? No.
Are we evidently capable of dealing with complexity? Yes.
WHY WHY WHY should I look at Linux? Tell me, right the fuck now or go home and shut your mouth forever, why it would be better for me than Windows. Well, you can't, because it's not. Linux is not for everyone... it doesn't need to be... it will never be... get it?
Next Linux fan I see gets sucker-punched for your stupidity. Good job.
But I can't. Replace "Windows" with "XP" and "Linux" with "Vista" or "W7" and it makes a lot of sense.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
MS Office I can see people buying, but Photoshop, really?
Who spends £500 on a photo editing app except professional users? I do photography for advertising and web and find The GIMP suits fine. Sure I'd appreciate some of the finesse of PSD CS4 (and filters!) but I'm still more likely to get Corel PSP, at one-fifth of the price of Adobe's Photoshop, if I'm just photo editing at home.
?
I've mentioned this before, but some power users use software RAID, so it's relevant. Also, despite what some people tell you, properly configured purely software RAID under linux (mdadm, NOT dmraid) works very nicely, especially for RAID0 and RAID1.
Anyhow, it turns out that 9.04 is still unable to boot if the root volume is mdadm RAID1. As I understand it, this is because the initrd either doesn't load the mdadm driver or loads it too late. Non-root RAID volumes work fine.
This is a silly oversight that totally breaks 9.04 for anyone who wants to just put in two disks and run a mirrored configuration. And they still haven't fixed it. Note that Ubuntu has a long history of broken software RAID support while still claiming to support it, which is kinda dishonest, if you ask me. It's broken not because of a silly mistake but because they never bothered to test it before releasing.
What do you mean by no thumbnail view "in gnome"? That's like saying no thumbnail view "in windows". You must have been in some application in windows to be able to do that.
I just tried it in Nautilus (Gnome file manager), which defaults to thumbnail view. To bring Nautilus up, I clicked Home Folder under the Places menu. Nautilus allowed me to select two pictures, right-click on them, and select to send them by email in the resulting pop-up. Up came an Evolution compose window with the pictures attached and ready to send. Cake.
I didn't see any option for sending a resized version, but is that alone really what makes her vehemently against "Linux"?
Install Ubuntu and if you have the wrong wireless card, WMP54G, your wireless connection will randomly oscillate between 54Mb and 1Mb/s. And eventually it just dies. I spent hours reading online guides and fixing my system to work with this card. Do you think the normal XP user would do this?
Not bad, but wouldn't power users has some form of clue or education? I mean they are "power" users not your normal users.. Not to knock on anything but i think the title is abit mis-informing... Title should read "Ubuntu 9.04 For the Windows User. Point B well Linux has to solve gaming... Wine is good but its not great maybe 60-70% of games work without issue 20% with minor issue and the rest major issue or not at all which sadly are the newest games until they've been out long enough for wine to get them to work.. Point C. If you want Linux to start to really take a Dent into Windows... Business Apps have to-be the first focus.. PC gaming while seems a big portion.. the business world is even bigger.. If 1 single application wont work in Linux then its completely pointless to run it in your business. Having users boot Linux then load a windows VM to run the app is a hindrance... And reason i say business has to be the main focus to get Linux mainstream is if people start using it at work then it will transfer to home easier. If i could install a Linux flavor at work then getting my boss or co-workers to run it at home would be a lot easier than the former... Just a rant cheers!
Ubuntu is more useful than Windows out-of-the-box, with more useful apps and a more efficient interface. But, it's easy to tweak Windows to a point where it is more powerful than Ubuntu.
Windows has a large number of annoyances and the user interface is very inefficient. But, thanks to a huge community, there are downloadable tweaks, customizations, or power tools. You can add VWM functionality. You can use Powershell. You can replace the explorer shell with something like Litestep if you want.
Windows has an unfair advantage. Basically, every power app that Linux has has been ported to Windows. But there are a lot of Windows power apps which don't exist for Linux.
Most of the annoyances of Windows have some workaround that someone already figured out. Many of the annoyances in Linux haven't been fixed yet and require you to patch it yourself. It's simply due to a larger community that Windows has.
Her default email application is Thunderbird, and it seems Thunderbird uses a simplified file manager to open documents. I know Nautilus works well for thumbnails (I'm actually really liking dolphin for that right now), but I can't figure out how to resize the pictures to send. Each picture is almost 2mb, so sending 20 odd pictures just doesn't work.
Gimp is fast, and it's pretty easy to create a script to automatically make resized copies, but of course, that's silly, and has too many steps.
Also, you have to realize I'm talking about a WOMAN here. There's no logic in this.
Perhaps I'll figure out a way to write some kind of bash script or something that she can drag/drop pictures to it, then it'll open a new message with the pictures already attached. Women.
Ryan
How do you know I'm not a woman? Oh, right, this is /. ;)
I think you can chose from a settings menu to let Thunderbird use the built-in Gnome file selector. Don't quote me on that.
Have you tried F-Spot or DigiKam? DigiKam is pretty slick, and I understand F-Spot is even sharper.
Dolphin feels clunky to me. I find myself running screaming back to konquerer --profile filemanagement when I'm using KDE.
Know a Windows power user who is (honestly) good with technology, but hasn't yet warmed to Linux?
I thought it was a rhetorical question?
Hello, I'm a windows power user who has used linux and, frankly, I don't understand what the real world benefits are.
Sure- its free, but I dont care about that. I'll gladly pay for a system if it is the best.
Sure- its interface is very customizable (along with the rest of the system), but how does that help me I'm too busy configuring the thing to be able to use it?
I've no doubt that linux is a better model for an operating system, and that at one point it will be ready for the desktop- but in my opinion it isn't there yet, so for now I don't see why i should HAVE to find alternatives to all of my programs.
You know those bumper stickers? How come 90% of the world uses Windows yet they are the only group of the 3 major religions (Mac, Linux, MS) who do NOT actively proselytize members of the other cults? If somebody likes their Mac, can't we just be okay with that? If somebody likes their PC, likewise? Do we really think that if we starve the beast (MS) he'll just spread his wings and fly away to another galaxy?
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly LIKE windows. I actually don't care about operating systems at all, except when they actively get in my way.
What I care about is the Apps. Windows has them, Linux doesn't, and so Windows wins for the moment.
There are still things in the newer Linux distributions that ***should*** work--out of the box--but don't.
I put Kubuntu on my home machine. Looks good, powerful, fast, but could not get the sound to work. Spent many hours editing conf, alsa, and driver files, researching the net, etc. etc....
Finally got sound to work. Did so by ERASING Kubuntu, and putting an old version of Freespire on it.
Works fine now.
If the Linux world can't make the speakers work, how the hell is Open Office going to [properly] open an Excel spreadsheet, with graphs and formatting? And when you work on the spreadsheet, and do a save, when it gets back to Windows it is a "corrupted" file...
THAT'S why Linux is not being adopted...
So you DO know how to reply.
way different than one of these:
http://www.kegfun.com/images/beerhelmet.jpg
You shouldn't ask that, he might be an FBI officer.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Linux Lost against Windows 15 years ago?
Would be 1994. BEFORE WINDOWS 95.
And what, were you using then? Windows 3.11, I presume. In which case, Linux 1.0 (released March, 1994) offered a 32 bit system with memory protection and preemption.
So, tell me, did you ENJOY running EMM386.EXE?
I guess you could have been running Windows NT 3.1 (or 3.5, released September 1994). That also offered a 32 bit system with memory protection and preemption. It also cost $280 back then. Linux? Free.
Stop trying to rewrite history.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
I think of Windows like skiing and Linux like snowboarding.
I've been skiing for years and (dare I say it) I'm not bad. I can do reds and blacks (although I might not be the most elegant on the blacks). I've started trying to do jumps. I'm not great, I fall over a lot, but I'm getting there.
When I snowboard, I can do the basics. I can go forwards, I can turn left and right (sort of) and sometimes I can stop in an elegant way without falling over. If I stuck at it, then I could do it just as well as I could skiing.
But you know what? I can't be bothered.
Here I am, 1 week a year out in the glorious slopes of France and I have two choices: (1) go and explore the mountains, take the cable cars up, do the blacks from the glacier, hit the snowpark, do the winding reds through the trees or (2) fall over a lot on the greens.
Yes, I'm lazy. I could stick at it, I could become an expert at snowboarding - but that 1 week a year when I've paid a bucket load of money to go on holiday, I want to actually do something with it. Skiing does that.
Moving from Windows to Linux is like that. I could, but Windows does what I want it to do. Shove cygwin on there and I've not really got much of a reason to move at all.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
MS is a playah and is willing to do dirty sneaky deals with OEMs to get their shit pushed.
Drop this. Forget this. Put it out of your mind forever.
The Windows PC flies off the shelf. It does a damn good job of selling your printers. Your cameras. Your photo frames.
Retailers love after-market sales.
GTA for the PC gamer. Paint Shop Pro for the amateur photographer. Print Shop for crafts.
the majority of computer sheeple really couldn't give a clue about patents, open source, and whatnot.
Erase the word "sheepie" from your vocabulary as well.
That too will help clear your head.
What would help IMHO is for linux to have advocacy, a marketing department, and general user friendliness polishes.
Linux could stand a little less advocacy.
Because what is really being sold is the geek's brand of political correctness.
OSX builds on a rock-solid UNIX foundation. Vista and Win 7 are much stronger entries than the geek is willing to admit.
--- and no one gets their panties in a knot when you ask for a Blu-Ray driver.
The FOSS app that is best-of-breed can gain traction in the Windows market. Witness: Firefox.The second or third tier app remains the second or third tier app even when MS Office Home is $145 list for the retail box.
The heart of the problem for FOSS and Linux is this:
Microsoft has close on to a thirty-five year old relationship with the non-technical end user. They clawed their way up together.
They understand each other very, very well.
The geek still looks "down."
He is far more at home in the higher reaches of the NIX cathedral than he will ever be in the Windows bazaar.
Bazaars are crowded. Bazaars are dirty. Bazaars are corrupt. The geek is as out of his element here as the Salvation Army band.
The geek hands out tracts.
It pains him when money changes hands.
The geek is a reductionist who defines the home user as someone who needs only e-mail, a media player and a browser.
He would strip that down to the browser alone if he could.
He'll count the number of apps in his Linux repository and think he has got the problem nailed.
The Windows developer will probe relentlessly into every corner where he thinks he sees the potential for profit - the solidly middle class market - and he can be dug in mighty deep before FOSS produces anything even remotely competitive.
God help us all.
I couldn't even name a replacement for Print Shop.
I feel like I am this user!! I have been setting up computer hardware and microsoft operational system from a very young age, but never really gave Linux a chance. I got in touch with it during computational mathematics college but never realy felt the need to properly install it myself. It is incredible how stable Windows XP is, I'm currently using the 64 bit version, I can leave my computer running for weeks without any problem. It does feels like a good idea to try Linux, this sounds like a good opportunity to do so.
Dolphin is a bit clunky in KDE, but if you open it in GNOME is seems to run fine. I've tried F-Spot, but I found it a bit awkward and slow when processing 8+ gigs of pictures. Perhaps I'll fool around with DigiKam a little bit. I'm a gnome fanboy, so I haven't really tried much of the K stuff since.. Slackware 8 or 9.
As for the woman thing, I'm particularly speaking of the one that rules my roost, not in general. I suppose I was a bit vague ;)
Ryan
Yes. This is ultimately where the Linux vs. proprietary OS argument just hits a brick wall. Linux people think that another program with similar functionality is good enough. People who actually do something other than type ASCII text for a living (i.e. developers) don't agree.
Without Excel, I'm sunk (yeah, I know about Crossover--I have it for the Mac, and if it works anything like that on Linux, then I don't consider that an alternative). Without Winsteps (Rasch modeling software), I'm sunk. Without Facets (different kind of Rasch model, modeling software), I'm sunk. Are there FOSS programs that handle the same tasks? Yes, but not as well, and even if they did handle them as well, they wouldn't do them the same way, and why should I kill myself learning a new application when I'm happy with what I'm using now (cue all the sarcastic "Oh! Well, you wouldn't want to learn something new, now would you?" comments. Please, I'm a researcher; my job is to learn, and do you run around reversing the hinge sides of the doors in your house just to keep yourself on your toes? Piss off.)?
I keep a fully-updated Ubuntu VM, just to keep up with what is happening there. I really like it, as OSes go. It's pretty and really easy to use. Pity it doesn't run any software I need.
Hopefully, by the end, your 'friend' will realize just how easy Ubuntu can be to use and start down a long path of exploration with a new operating system.
Long path??? I want an operating system that lets me implement exactly what I want with the least amount of effort possible!
No, I will not work for your startup
It is the sweet release of acceptance that this is what it is and isn't getting better that proves you've transcended from power user to Total Windows Awareness. At that glorious moment the confusion becomes clarity, the pain becomes motive, and you get a mac.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
That's when Microsoft invented the subdirectory. Good times.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
If you have Windows, and you click this link to Blender, then nothing bad will happen. But if you have Ubuntu, or some other Linux that supports apt-url, it will look up Blender in your repository, download it from your configured software sources and install it.
Was that easy enough? Instead of a text file or an instaler dialog or a howto, I can put the installer right here in a slashdot comment for you, if you had an actual unmet Linux need.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Ah, but is it smartly designed compared to Bash?
Personally, I'd say so. If you look at a Unix shell as a programming language, it's one in which only the most rudimentary data types are available - and every sub-task is constantly burdened with the need to decode the data that's fed to it. An analogous situation would be if the only type you could pass to or return from functions in C++ were the void pointer. (More accurately, perhaps, a void pointer to a block o data with no other pointers in it...) It can be done, but every step of the way you have to be sure you know what type you're dealing with and that you interpret it correctly.
Now, compare this to Powershell: You can compile classes and instantiate and invoke them in the shell. You can seamlessly integrate any of the .NET-targeted programming languages, including Unix scripting favorites like Python and Ruby. Shared datatypes (via the .NET platform) mean that tools have a very rich "shared vocabulary" - and reflection as part of the .NET standard means programmers don't need to spend as much time "wrapping" things to be operable within the shell. You can write and instantiate a class in one language, return it as a value from a commandlet in the shell (without having to serialize it) and then perform operations on it in the shell or pass it to another commandlet. Powershell can do this because commandlets are run as part of Powershell's process - in Unix terms you could think of this as the shell dynamically loading a library and running functions defined inside it - this can be done safely in Powershell because the .NET virtual machine can protect against out-of-bounds access...
One of the advantages of Linux shell is that it *is* a lot easier and more consistent than the Windows command line.
This is not something I would take for granted. Unix tools were built up over decades by various groups - some of the behavior of these tools has been standardized (via Posix) but some common options or features are proprietary inventions by GNU or others. And due to the diverse backgrounds of these tools, whether they're standardized or not, they tend not to match each other. One program prefixes program options with --, another with -, others may not prefix them at all.
Powershell, on the other hand, is a recent invention, built from the ground up on a consistent set of design rules. And because of the tie to .NET, large volumes of the Windows API can be directly exposed to the shell.
Just having a consistent, easy interface for piping I/O as simple text makes it so much better than the equivalent in Windows.
The "equivalent in Windows" is (and always has been) the same thing - just redirect or pipe a command's output. Powershell is actually no different, except that it also gives you the option to run "commandlets" implemented in .NET.
There is a simple reason Linux junkies will go to the command line for stuff. It's actually feasible.
I'm not a particular Linux Guru, and even I once wrote shell scripts that organized webpages with sed - try doing anything vaguely similar under Windows?
Pug
I think that under cmd.exe on a default install of Windows you'd be hard-pressed to match that. But install some command-line utilities (for instance, MinGW) or go to Powershell and things change drastically. I'm pretty sure Powershell has a much more complete suite of text manipulation tools than the older Microsoft command shells did (by default, I mean) - and with the kind of integration you get through .NET, interfacing code from other languages and binding it all together in a script is much easier than it would be in the Unix shell or in the mainline implementations of Python, etc.
Personally I do not feel like the "everything is text" philosophy of the U
Bow-ties are cool.
Ubuntu's not really better right now. I installed Ubuntu on my main windows machine. It's got 2 monitors running through an Nvidia card. The sound didn't work until I played with it for 2 hours (I think it's because I've got a motherboard with surround sound where any of the jacks can be used for any conceivable purpose), and I still don't know what I need to do to get my Twinview settings to persist. And I had all kinds of trouble with multi-monitor support, fiddling with which one has the main menu and which doesn't, and so on.
With Windows, all that kind of stuff just works. It breaks my heart, and I want to use Ubuntu on my desktop, but not bad enough to spend a whole weekend messing around with it. For now, I'm happy with using Windows on my desktop and using samba shares to an ubuntu server. Well, I'd be happier if my config was all worked out, but it's not worth it.
But as my machine continues to bug me about Windows Genuine Advantage, it's becoming more temping to rid myself of that windows plague...
Don't do this from the US, or the new RIAA owned Justice Department will come break down your door. Which is of course why they can't include it in the standard Ubuntu. If you want an Ubuntu with this preinstalled and you're not in the US, start with Linux Mint. Linux mint has that stuff, but they also do localization in a lot of languages so they lag on features a few months behind the main Ubuntu distro. That said, the instructions below install DVD playing on Ubunty Jaunty.
Use Firefox, or some other browser that supports apt-url.
For the below, you will need to give the password for software installation. Clicking the links doesn't go to a howto - it actually installs the software from the standard repositories.
Click here to install the Restricted formats.
Click here to install VNC (my preferred DVD-watching application).
Open a terminal and paste this:
sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh
You will be asked for the sudo password. This enables the computer to read the format for encrypted DVDs.
That's it you're done. Stick your movie in, start vnc and tell it to play the DVD.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It would be a major improvement if installing Linux was as easy as installing XP.
And then you're done, right. Once the OS is installed you can get right to browsing the net and working on your documents, your photos, your website...
Wait... no you can't. You don't even dare plug in the network cable until you've installed a gigabyte of patches, turned off auto-run and a dozen other services in the registry, installed a network security suite, and spend a half turning off undesired services and otherwise adding security that should be the default.
And after that, it's time to go SHOPPING! You're going to need an office suite, an Acrobat reader, a flash player, a replacement for the abomination of a web browser that came with the OS. Also a back up app and some sort of regimen. Figure an extra thousand bucks of so if you're willing to go it alone, or two if you need a consultant. Add a few more days of tweaking settings.
NOW you're ready to plug in that network cable and spend an hour or two registering and activating all the various applications and installing the updates for them, turning off their absurd unhelpful and insecure default settings.
OK, now you're ready to do some work. NO! WAIT! This would be a good time to clone the system to an offline backup, and test the restore to make sure you can recover in the inevitable malware event. And if the restore fails, start over and try again.
Is it any wonder people will nurse their ancient hardware until it just won't run? Are you surprised they want a Mac or Linux, which have almost none of these problems?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Linux is more than ready for the Desktop. Hardware manufacturers are getting on board far more rapidly than you might believe, ...
And with the depression upon us a lot of people - both individual an business users, are looking at cutting their costs. Manufacturers of equipment are aware of this and are starting to support Linux in order to avoid loss of market share. And with big players like IBM in the support business it's no longer a major risk for corporate IT.
When the high costs of the old proprietary solutions start to make the difference, not between having more or less money left over, but between having a working modern system and not having one, people are far more willing to put up with some learning curve.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
If you want to show a Windows user that's good with tech or even not good with tech Ubuntu, just show them Wubi. No reason to make things complicated just because the user understands the complicated parts.
Just like with any other software application you've used long enough to be really productive in, switching to a new system - even a technically superior one - is going to mean a temporary reduction in your ability to work effectively. Granted, if the new system is a large enough improvement over the old one this effort will pay for itself, but this isn't always clear at the outset, and even if it is some people just don't like the feeling of impotence that comes with having to learn everything over again.
I've been using Windows so long, my workflow is actually warped to deal with the limitations of the OS. I have a decent alt-tab, task manager, and text editor replacements installed, plus a virtual desktop utility; Win-R is burned into my muscle memory and I edit the registry so I can use it for apps that don't create the entries to use it themselves.
There's a shortcut to run an elevated command prompt with a custom prompt and tab completion turned on. Most of the applications I use every day are Windows versions of FOSS applications. Hell, even my icon set and cursors are lifted from the Tango project right now.
Moving to Linux means having to re-learn all the wrinkles and inconsistencies of the new system and adapting my habits to accommodate them. There are plenty of distros now that make this far easier than in the past, and I still intend to switch eventually, but I can still understand why others with decent technical competence would choose not to.
I agree that if someone is a power-user they shouldn't need much assistance in migrating from Windows. But with the downturn in the economy, the "failure" of Vista, the upcoming release of Windows 7 and the netbook wars, if there ever was a time for the average user to be wooed to Linux, this is it. Like it or not dual booting is probably going to be one of the keys to success as most people think they can't live without Windows.
Trybuntu.com offers a guide that provides detailed instructions on how to set up a dual boot machine and install all of the extra restricted goodies with a nifty free shell script. With a guide like this hopefully the slightly-above-average Windows user will test the linux waters and realize that most people can easily get by without Windows.
I own a laptop with windows to play Fallout 3, Civ 4, etc. Until Linux is Windows, I have no use for it.
I'm a fruit pirate. I bought a watermelon once, and spat the seeds in the back yard. They grew into another watermelon,
I made the (probably bad) move to linux when upgrading my PC recently (the windows install was getting so old the new hardware didn't bring extra speed if you know what I mean)
So far I've been fighting against it to find suitable apps to replace the stuff I used on windows.
1) Sound: some apps seem to want to use another soundsystem as what is configured in the settings. The end result is *always* that sound stops working and I need to reboot it. The linux crowd has always laughed at windows because of its reboot needs, so this came as a surprise. I don't care about some archaic init.d command to restart a subsystem. It should just work.
2) VOIP: had gizmo under windows and it worked great. It uses a SIP proxy for the voice stuff (obviously) and a jabber server for presence and chat. I have been through a dozen different clients, and so far *none* actually work completely. There's always something vital missing. I'm evaluating empathy right now, it handles the chat ok, but it has sound problems (either not sending or receiving. Very weird). I tried QuteCom too, but when I enter the the jabber server it says unknown host. Yes I typed it correctly. Does anybody ever test the crap they release these days. Not even alpha quality!
3) Note application. I'm a file freak. I have my data organized in a nice directory tree, even so for my notes. On windows, I used TOMBO (freeware, which also existed for my PDA) and which also organizes its notes in a folder structure. Supports encryption using blowfish. On linux, there is not one note app that can deal with a tree of documents or even import it. The most interesting one (notecase) has gone payware, and even that wouldn't be ok. They have an N810 version however, which is why I would be ok with it. But I'm not going to enter all the notes again (not this many!).
4) graphics apps. I'll run photoshop in a VM, thank you. Gimp is utter crap, it wasn't even able to render some text correctly (half the area was greyed, couldn't see it. Had to use print preview to look at my work.
Shall I continue?
The *major* problem IMHO is all these competing little open source groups thinking their little app and way of thinking is better, resulting in a ton of similar apps of which non works properly. What this needs is somebody with a bit of vision (and quality minded) to merge these groups and guide them to create one or maybe two great applications that work.
Linux won't be ready for the big crowd unless the software quality comes up to a decent level.
"On linux, there is not one note app that can deal with a tree of documents or even import it"
Konqueror, Using Konqueror
davecb5620@gmail.com
"Technically inclined people who aren't programmers simply don't need linux, and programmers will already know about it"
Did you factor in all the time you spend at installing 'service packs' (bug fixes) and fighting off the malware, virus, phishing infestation.
davecb5620@gmail.com
I'm sick of XP so I tried switching to Linux. I passed hours in the bug reporting site of the distro (Fedora) I was using. Now I switched to Ubuntu and I have to begin filing bugs again. My friends aren't patient like me so when they ask me "Is Linux better than Windows" I say definitively "NO". Someone of them tried Ubuntu, in some PCs it does work, in other ones it doesn't. If there are tons of these problems, it's better not to switch to Linux. If we had it at work, we all would have to repair our computers at work, and our bosses wouldn't be very pleased, I'm sure. I'm going to try this Windows 7 (moreover, I need it to work)...
The reason I switched back to windows was to regain control over which specific apps gets to access what. On my desktop, only the programs whose main application is to use the internet gets to access it. Even so, I still deny access at first, in order to block the initial attempts to phone home, until I find the setting to disable it. Even then, for some unfathomable reason, some programs still try to phone home.
I installed MEPIS a couple of years ago, and while I liked having easy access to some great programs, I was disappointed when Amarok started leeching album thumbnails from amazon without my permission, inadvertently transmitting details of my media library to a huge retailer, what's up with that? I read some FAQ on Firedog (I think?), and it said that this functionality, whilelisting apps, which I obviously need to ensure my privacy, is nonexistent on Linux. Since Linux couldn't ensure my privacy, which IMO is fundamental to a desktop OS, I reinstalled windows.
The guide is quite all right but I'm not sure why the author said that Google Earth or Flash don't run on 64bit version... I installed both on a 64bit version of Jaunty and while Google Earth doesn't really like Compiz (had to switch it off to prevent the screen from flickering) it runs fine. Flash also doesn't work any worse than its 32bit version (on the same machine or any other that I tried, for that matter). And no, I didn't have to tinker around with any config files or anything like that - just added relevant repos, fired up Synaptic, installed the packages and that was it.
Also, since the whole article is aimed at so called "Windows power users" I doubt there's need explaining what each menu or button does...
As a scientist working with a lot of imaging data I can tell you that Photoshop is provided by my institution and our license allows installation on private computers as well (as long as you are employed). So using photoshop cost me nothing, but requires me to leave that windows partition on my computer.
So since I already have photoshop at work and know how to use it, why whould I bother to learn how to use GIMP so I can do some work at home? To be honest, I might if I had to pay for it but not very likely, I would just make sure I wouldn't need to do any such work at home at all.
"haha.. I know I can use a filebrowser, but I want the notes content to appear on the right side of the tree. And support for encryption..."
davecb5620@gmail.com
While what your asking for does exist, i will admit that it does not exist in a form similar to ZoneAlarm or other Application Layer Firewalls.
There is some discussion about this here: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4137/
Essentially, what you want is a false sense of security. There is nothing stopping any application from calling an approved application to do it's communicating for it. For example, I could write my installer to open IE and send me your personal info via HTTP.
Additionally, the Windows policy of allowing an application to insert itself into the IP stack has actually made for a LESS secure system as a lot of attacks use this "feature" themselves. I have removed several pieces of spyware that monitored all traffic by inserting themselves in the IP stack in exactly the same way.
In Linux, the closest you will come would be to use iptables to route all outbound traffic to a proxy (which is, essentially, an application layer firewall) like Zorp, or to Configure AppArmor or seLinux. None of these things are simple, but they are providing a real sense of security not a false one.
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
is true that it deals him with the new one note on Ubuntu, but the liberty of free code never has to stay
... for the next time I am at work, and some drone asks me how to use the funny-named Linux disk they found in their kids computer.
/sigh.
0100010001101001011001 0100100000011010010110 1110001000000110000100 1000000110011001101001 0111001001100101
Owned in 60 seconds.
The average lifespan of an unpatched XP box directly connected to broadband is less than a minute.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I run XP SP2 daily, but I'm sort of a hybrid Win/Linux user: WRT on my router, SSH often, write code for a living. Rock CYGWIN daily. Sometimes I go hours of without realizing that my wireless mouse is out of juice... 99% of features I use in 90% of my apps are bound to keys. I've tried WINE, dual booting, etc, but I find no reason to switch (or even boot occasionally) to Ubuntu. There's nothing I can do (being a Linux non-guru) in Ubuntu that I can't in Windows. In fact, I'd venture that with my uber customized XP setup, I can match most Linux power users in raw speed. Sadly, however, I know I'll have to switch to either Ubuntu or OSX with my upcoming i7 build: I'll need all 64 bits. Windows 7 is a distant possibility, but unlikely. Is there a guide out there for people like me?
When you're having a perfectly good whaargarble and demand a citation, only to find the article that disproves your argment take the top of slashdot's main page? I hate it when that happens to me too.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
That it's quick and easy to install Windows. I would refute it, but I'll defer to all the comments on that fine article instead. Once you started throwing out caveats like NAT router and latest service pack media your argments were done for anyway. Why don't you recommend the average user slipstream the drivers and service packs into the custom scripted install DVD they make for themselves. My grandma always does that when she's not running the beta she DL'd from her MSDN account.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Maybe Ubuntu shouldn't target the Win Power User
Ubuntu targets the average Windows user who, more or less, is using his PC to access the internet plus doing simple Office tasks (spreadsheet, docs).
There are alot of people who really don't care about Windows games.
"Also, to answer your actual question from before, you prefix whatever you want to ask for elevation with "gksudo" in their shortcuts; that's how you get the graphical elevation password prompt."
Thanks. Now ask me why I don't recommend linux to friends.